Re: FORUM

[Flip]

He's now avg 8 pts, 3 rebs, 2 asts on 35% FG in 31 mpg for the season for $8 mil/yr.

I can't get over how terrible of a signing this was. After all the heat on Joe for the bad signings of Gordon, Charlie Vagina, Rip ext, and Maxiell, how he could have outdone those with an even worse signing is unthinkable.

Well, I guess now we know why Tay was so eager to come back. Something seems very wrong with Tay physically. Either his knee is a lot worse than anyone is letting on, or else his back has become a cronic problem. Tay probably didn't think he could pass the physical necessary to sign with another team. Or else he didn't want to go to another team and incurr the wrath of the fans for coming in as an old broken down war horse, and stealing money. Tay probably thought this would be the easiest way to just collect one more big contact, and put up 9 pts and 3 rbds here in Detroit.

Exactly! I wonder if we could void his contract, if this knee problem was covered up or something during his physical. I also think Tay just wanted the most comfortable situation where he could give minimal effort, get paid a lot of money, and management would be ok with it.

You really have to question a guy that chooses to be a part of a team like this OVER contenders, who all wanted him. That should've been a red flag immediately for Joe, signaling a guy that doesn't care about winning. Joe should've wondered why doesn't Tay want to go play for a contender like Rip, Sheed, and Dice all did? To me, it speaks volumes that he's just a guy who has already accomplished everything possible in his career - championship, playoffs every year, gold medal winner, etc. - and now is content just getting paid to suck on a bad team and relax the rest of his career.

[WTF]

I'm getting freaking tired of Tebow, Jay Z baby and his baby mamma, those slut sisters on that reality show. This crap isn't hot news because it has any real freaking value it only hot news because you dumb asses keep making freaking news.

Often I blast our local media for being dumb asses but the national folks are beginning to be equally stupid. Generally the news of a baby or the success of an athlete would be good to hear, but the over kill of information make one not really give a flying shit.

I'm convince that most media folks, politicians and preachers will be amongst the first to hit the gates of hell long before they ever write, report or say anything meaningful.

[frankied]

Why the hell ain't Vernon Macklin getting any real PT? His lack of playing time during this "rebuild" is beginning to turn me against Frank. Wilkins was a journeyman pick-up and he's getting PT. Ben is old and tired, but he's getting PT. Tayshaun is in effect leaving us a man short and he's playing all night!! These are all vets that have proven their worth, or lack of, and won't be apart of this team in the next 2-3 years.....why ain't Macklin playing?

DX,
exactly.
when the game was almost a 30 point game and he's still got the old guys out there, you seriously have to wonder what he is thinking.
it was great that he finally got macklin in, but he should be the first big man off the bench at this point.
ben should be the emergency big guy.
playing him, essentially as the backup to monroe, while letting your only young big man prospect rot on the bench makes no sense. especially when it is obvious that the team needs someone, somehow to step up and start to provide help on the frontline.
he may or may not help, but you never know until he gets a chance.
what we do know now is that the other guys are not getting it done on the front line.
one of the things that is happening is that teams are not even playing wallace defensively, so the team is effectively going 4 against 5 defenders. it is exactly what started happening back when carlysle coached the team, and it killed the team offensively.

[frankied]

btw, frank has started playing ben and max together, quite a bit. i even think i recall him playing wilkins on the front line with them, in the first half.
that has to be one one the dumbest things i've ever seen a coach do.
you have 3 nonscorers on the frontline. three guys that the defense can almost ignore.
how does that make any sense?
as i've said before, this guy has no feel for the game.
he may know a lot about x's and o's, but so far, his ability to affect the game by putting players in the right positions is nil. nada. zilch.
he's tone deaf.

[Murph]

You really have to question a guy that chooses to be a part of a team like this OVER contenders, who all wanted him. That should've been a red flag immediately for Joe, signaling a guy that doesn't care about winning. Joe should've wondered why doesn't Tay want to go play for a contender like Rip, Sheed, and Dice all did? To me, it speaks volumes that he's just a guy who has already accomplished everything possible in his career - championship, playoffs every year, gold medal winner, etc. - and now is content just getting paid to suck on a bad team and relax the rest of his career.

Right. Either Tay is seriously injured, or no longer cares about winning, or both.

[frankied]

Incidently, getting back to Daye, this guy is a psycho head case. It happens in baseball once in a while. A guy will freak out, and forget how to throw (Chuck Knobloch, Rick Ankiel, Macky Sasser). It seems that when the pressure is on to perform, Austin Daye has forgotten how to shoot. 10 games into the season, and Daye is still shooting only 21%. And we know that at one point in is career, Daye was known as a good shooter. Very strange.

obviously, what is going on is inside of his head. he's obviously lost confidence.
and as i've been saying since it was clear that this had happened, the team has 2 choices: let him sit and rot on the bench and end up losing him in free agency, another young player dumped for nothing, or they can do what they can do to help him out of his slump.
and that means letting the guy play. and playing him on a regular basis.
if you watch his play, it is clear that he is getting more confidence, slowly but surely. he's starting to assert himself offensively with assists, he's rebounding the ball well, and he's taking shots that are there for him.
the only thing he has to do is start making his shots.
is there a chance that he will become one of those rare freaked out guys like knobloch? sure. but the odds of that happening are fairly low. the strong probability is that he will start hitting his shots sooner than later and this slump will be a bad memory. something to learn from.
we just saw a guy break out of a similar slump the other game when jodie meeks exploded for 17 points in the 4th quarter against the pistons. he'd been in a similar shooting slump and there'd been calls for doug collins to take him out of the starting line up. collins stuck with him, even though he'd been in a daye-like shooting slump since the beginning of the season. he broke out of it against detroit and now collins has his shooting guard back in form.
and maybe not coincidentally, philly is in the middle of a long winning streak.

[Oracle]

As Frankie pointed out, it's hard to support Frank when he puts 3 non-scorers in the game, and wonders why we aren't competitive. I've tried to give him time, but decisions like that are hard to defend once it becomes a pattern.

I know he wants to focus on defense, but that can't be your total focus, and it needs to be adapted to the opponent.

We have a strong history of defense at a high level. However, if you look ant our great defensive teams, they had one thing in common... they had great physical talent!

The Bad Boys(nuff said), and when Sheed & Ben were in their prime, the physical talent was dominating! Frank doesn't have that level of physical talent, so solely focusing on defense, fails to recognize the need for balance or the lack to defensive talent.

Even so, we don't know how much dumars in in his ear, or what metrics they've laid out for him to meet.

Whaterve the case, he's failing on every concievable front that I would think a coach needs to accomplish.

BTW, you play Daye until he comes out of the slump! It's not like he's losing games for us!

[frankied]

Oracle posted:
"BTW, you play Daye until he comes out of the slump! It's not like he's losing games for us!"
exactly. and i keep coming back to how doug collins handled a similar player, jodie meeks.
daye and meeks are very similar players. both limited in certain ways, primarily shooters, who are mediocre defenders.
collins started meeks and was patient with him through his horrible slump.
it paid off and meeks helped beat detroit when he came out of his slump.
philly also is playing some of the league's best BB now, with meeks a big part of the streak.
have to think that the kind of trust collins showed in meeks affects the rest of the players on the team, also.
you see how a guy like hawes, who flamed out in sac-town, has blossomed. a guy like williams, who was a streaky player...thaddeus young, who was a borderline guy...even evan turner has started to show his game...all of those players are thriving under collins.
except for monroe - we'll see with knight, but some of his recent play is a matter of concern - i don't see real progression.
a guy like bynum, who is a williams-like bench guard, is actually regressing. macklin doesn't even see the floor except in garbage time. daye is ...well, we see how daye is responding.
let's see how frank handles these young guys and how they improve or do not improve. so far, a very mixed record, with some real signs of concern.

[cool breeze]

Are the Pistons making another effort to build up the stats of Maxiell so they can trade him? I keep wondering if that might be the game plan. There is no way that Maxiell should be playing at all on this rebuilding team. I would prefer to see Wallace get the playing time over Maxiell. However, why not bring in Macklin as Frankied and deusXango have been pondering? The guy has a big body which the Pistons do not have on the floor much of the time. We also need to get some rebounds from the small forward position and the guards. I know that Knight has been the best guard rebounder but the Pistons need all five guys boxing out. Prince and his replacement have to do a better job because Monroe still is not a good defensive rebounder and Jerebco is often playing against much stronger players. Jerebco is a very active player on the glass but we need another guy like that being that the Pistons are a small team. If Daye wants more playing time and his shot is not falling, then it is insane that he is not more aggressive trying to block shots and protect the weak side on defense. I watch all of the other teams at the bottom and all have an upside where one can think that things will get better. However, the Pistons have given their big money players too much undeserved playing time. Gordon has played so bad over the past few games that he should be at the end of the bench as far as I am concerned. He is the guy who is paid to lead the team. Why not use the amnesty rule and get rid of him now. I don't care if Gordon scores 30 points a game. He hurts the team in so many ways with his defense and lack of passing skills. He is also unable to get himself open lately. During the next game, watch and see what happens on offense when a Piston player is being double teamed. There is almost complete lack of movement without the ball by the other 4 players. I believe that Knight does try to get himself open when he is in. And during the last Chicago game, I noticed that Jerebco went for almost the entire 3rd quarter without receiving one pass from his teammates at a time when he was in constant motion. You could see that he was upset with the lack of team orientated unselfish play. During the last game, he didn't move without the ball as much. How can the coach blame him when he is being shut out of the offense. The Pistons play only one side of the court on offense. It is very dull indeed to watch this team perform. I do agree with coach Frank that Knight must play and make his mistakes. At least I am happy to watch him get the playing time. Also, I like Wilkins and the effort that he brings. He makes the fewest mistakes. Why not start Knight, Prince, Monroe, Jerebco and Wilkins at the shooting guard position. Then bring in Macklin as the first big sub. This will at least improve our defense and rebounding. The bottom line suggesting by Cool Breeze would be to take Gordon and Maxiell out of the rotation.

[Admin]

BTW, you play Daye until he comes out of the slump! It's not like he's losing games for us!

Agreed, and its not like the other guys are winning games for us either.

Frank preaching defense is great, but eventually he's going to start sounding like Marinelli pounding the rock. When you have a team incapable of playing the level of defense he's demanding, you eventually have to adjust your system to fit the personnel, if you ever want win a game. Otherwise, you just keep repeating the same mistakes every game because the players just aren't capable of doing it.

We have some good scorers on this team. They'd win more games just focusing everything on offense and forgetting about defense. It won't get them very far, but neither will telling a group of bad defenders to play defense or don't play at all.

The problem is Joe gave Frank, a defensive coach, a team full of bad defenders. If the plan is to turn over the roster and start getting good defenders in the future, fine, but right now it makes no sense to continue this philosophy when they just don't have the troops to get it done.

[WTF]

I was initially pro Frank and thought the hiring was a good decision so I'm not completely ready to hand him a dunce cap just yet. The New Jersey team that Frank was handed in Jersey was pretty much the same team Scott took to the Finals twice so his early success as a head coach might have been overstated. This roster is just too jacked up to determine anything about Frank even if the rotation seems nonsense. He doesn't have shit to work with

To date I don't like how Knight has been handle nor Monroe, JJ at this points because these are 3 players that would be pushing 40 minutes a night at this point.

Daye is a head case so I don't agree that it's as simple as some slump that he's going to play his way out of so I think he should be gifted PT.

[WTF]

He played almost 10 minutes last night the longest stretch thus far and I like his movement and activity on the floor, This guy can be just as effective as Big Ben and I would slide JJ right into SF spot and play Knight, Stuckey Monroe, JJ and Macklin 40 minutes no matter what lose, win or draw or bad good or ugly this entire season. If CV and Tay have to be on the then I rotate them between SG, SF,PF and C. No way should we be fucking around with giving PT to Bynum, JMac, Wilkins, and Wallace and at this point Daye.

[FlyDog]

The Pistons are ranked 27th in opponents FG%. That sucks. That tells me that we're not a good Defensive team, at all. Couple that with the fact that we are the 26th best shooting team, and the lowest scoring team (by a full 3 points), and ya got a problem or 2.

It is NOT Larry Frank's fault. Did I like the Frank signing? Hell no. I think the guy is a twerp, just like banjo and cue-ball. But I honestly do think that we have a bottom 3 roster in the NBA. That also sucks.

[frankied]

this is from john hollingers "All-Suspected Surprises" team:

"D.J. White
...White is the least heralded of the bunch, but his per-minute stats always had indicated he would be an effective player if he played. Now that he's playing, that's bearing out. His 15.9 points and 9.2 boards per 40 minutes are almost exactly what he did in limited minutes last season, and his shooting percentages have held solid, too. He's not an elite athlete and doesn't have much upside to improve upon beyond this point, but he's a smart, low-mistake role player who can't be left open. Every team in the league could use a guy like him. "


geez...a big guy with those kind of numbers. think a team like detroit could use him? oh yea...detroit did have him for a quick minute and traded down so they could draft walter sleepy sharpe, ahead of deandre jordan.
the more you look at dumars' decisions, the more laughable they become.
oh yea, another guy on the list, byron mullens, a seven footer, is averaging 12 points and 5 boards in 20 minutes of PT. this is a guy that charlotte got for a 2013 SECOND ROUND DRAFT CHOICE!!!!
a second round choice for a seven foot prospect.
ya think joe might have been able to come up with a second rounder, somehow someway to try to pick up a seven foot prospect?

[frankied]

Daye is a head case so I don't agree that it's as simple as some slump that he's going to play his way out of so I think he should be gifted PT.

being the best player on the team during preseason is earning PT. a player who does that, like daye did, is not being "gifted" minutes. he's shown that he at least deserves a legitmate shot.

[WTF]

Daye is a head case so I don't agree that it's as simple as some slump that he's going to play his way out of so I think he should be gifted PT.

being the best player on the team during preseason is earning PT. a player who does that, like daye did, is not being "gifted" minutes. he's shown that he at least deserves a legitmate shot.

There is no way I can put any stock in a 2 game preseason with out the benefits of a full training camp so those 2 games does little to impress me. That's not earning PT what it was was accicdental success on his part, here's a guy that spent time in Russia getting he ass handed to him all summer should be ahead of the game at this point but as players are catching their breathe now across the league Daye has shown his true colors.

[frankied]

Daye is a head case so I don't agree that it's as simple as some slump that he's going to play his way out of so I think he should be gifted PT.

being the best player on the team during preseason is earning PT. a player who does that, like daye did, is not being "gifted" minutes. he's shown that he at least deserves a legitmate shot.

There is no way I can put any stock in a 2 game preseason with out the benefits of a full training camp so those 2 games does little to impress me. That's not earning PT what it was was accicdental success on his part, here's a guy that spent time in Russia getting he ass handed to him all summer should be ahead of the game at this point but as players are catching their breathe now across the league Daye has shown his true colors.

so, for this season, how was a player supposed to "earn" PT?

[FlyDog]

Wise- I couldn't agree more. Why 99% of these people are famous in the first place is beyond me.

[FlyDog]

Oracle- Joey The Clown tied his own nuts into a balloon animal. I think it's a chicken.

[FlyDog]

frankie- When I look at Daye, I think to myself, I thinks, "Self", I thinks, "Is this kid a joke?". His body is alien. He needs to PROVE himself with that slender frame. Or bulk up. Otherwise, it's just embarrassing when he enters the game. Geeze.........people are pointing and laughing, Austin.

[FlyDog]

Funny stuff!

[WTF]

Daye is a head case so I don't agree that it's as simple as some slump that he's going to play his way out of so I think he should be gifted PT.

being the best player on the team during preseason is earning PT. a player who does that, like daye did, is not being "gifted" minutes. he's shown that he at least deserves a legitmate shot.

There is no way I can put any stock in a 2 game preseason with out the benefits of a full training camp so those 2 games does little to impress me. That's not earning PT what it was was accicdental success on his part, here's a guy that spent time in Russia getting he ass handed to him all summer should be ahead of the game at this point but as players are catching their breathe now across the league Daye has shown his true colors.

so, for this season, how was a player supposed to "earn" PT?

By taking full advantage of the PT when they get it. I don't agree just because the season is a loss cause that Daye should be cuddle while he gets his freaking mind right. Like I said this isn't an issue off working through a shooting slump, there no passion in his game, he's playing like a rookie when he's not a rookie yet the rookie mistakes continue. Daye had PT in both his previous years so it not a matter where he wasn't afforded an opportunity to get better as a player.

IMO we should have nevered wasted the 15th pick on his ass, when there were better players to be had. I don't see Denver cuddling Lawson hell they traded CB and handed the team over to him. Daye needs to grow the hell up, man up the next time he smells that floor and perform. People compare him to Tay well Tay seized the moment as a rookie and looked what happen.....

[WTF]

I really miss the feed

[Admin]

I really miss the feed

wise, I had to make room. The host site sent me an email saying they are placing ads on the forum after a month, which is sometime this week. Its a free website so I can't stop them.

I'll see once they put them up, If I can fit the old feed back. Its the same feeds though in the "Pistons News" section, you just have to go to a new page. I'll try to get the old feed back up on this page though once everythings figured out.

[WTF]

I really miss the feed

wise, I had to make room. The host site sent me an email saying they are placing ads on the forum after a month, which is sometime this week. Its a free website so I can't stop them.

I'll see once they put them up, If I can fit the old feed back. Its the same feeds though in the "Pistons News" section, you just have to go to a new page. I'll try to get the old feed back up on this page though once everythings figured out.

No biggie I just miss it scrolling on my screen. I hope they're good ads at least.

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