Why Draft Such A Player?

[WTF]

STRENGTHS: - Excellent skill-level - Mismatch Potential - Scoring instincts - Timing - Ability to put ball on floor - Excellent hands - Excellent Touch - Finesse - Ability to contest shots - Shot-blocking tools - Potential - Basketball instincts - Ability to finish around basket - Coordination - Size for position - Wingspan - Defensive rebounding - 3-point range - 3-point shooting percentages - Ability to catch and shoot - Ability to shoot off the dribble - Shooting mechanics

WEAKNESSES: - Ability to get to free throw line - Inability to establish position in post - Ability to defend position at next level? - Ability to fight through screens - Foul prone - Gets backed down in post - Lateral quickness - Avoids contact - Body language - Maturity - Mental/Physical toughness? - Bad knees? - Ability to finish through contact - Average athleticism - Core strength - Frail frame - Lacks explosiveness - Lower body strength - Strength - Slow release

From DraftExpress.com [Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[Flip]

I really miss the feed

wise, I had to make room. The host site sent me an email saying they are placing ads on the forum after a month, which is sometime this week. Its a free website so I can't stop them.

I'll see once they put them up, If I can fit the old feed back. Its the same feeds though in the "Pistons News" section, you just have to go to a new page. I'll try to get the old feed back up on this page though once everythings figured out.

No biggie I just miss it scrolling on my screen. I hope they're good ads at least.

I know it does feel empty w/o it. I think I can choose ads related to the site content, like NBA/Pistons related stuff, not sure how it all works yet though.

[Flip]

STRENGTHS: - Excellent skill-level - Mismatch Potential - Scoring instincts - Timing - Ability to put ball on floor - Excellent hands - Excellent Touch - Finesse - Ability to contest shots - Shot-blocking tools - Potential - Basketball instincts - Ability to finish around basket - Coordination - Size for position - Wingspan - Defensive rebounding - 3-point range - 3-point shooting percentages - Ability to catch and shoot - Ability to shoot off the dribble - Shooting mechanics

WEAKNESSES: - Ability to get to free throw line - Inability to establish position in post - Ability to defend position at next level? - Ability to fight through screens - Foul prone - Gets backed down in post - Lateral quickness - Avoids contact - Body language - Maturity - Mental/Physical toughness? - Bad knees? - Ability to finish through contact - Average athleticism - Core strength - Frail frame - Lacks explosiveness - Lower body strength - Strength - Slow release

From DraftExpress.com [Only admins are allowed to see this link]

Are these Daye's scouting reports? If so, wow, they are spot on in his weaknesses.

Saying his ability to put the ball on the floor is a strength though, couldn't be further from accurate. Unless they mean literally put the ball on the floor, as in coughing it up all over the place everytime he tries to dribble. lol.

And listing coordination as a strength is mind-boggling. He's one of the most uncoordinated players I've ever seen.

But Frail frame, immature, mentally/physically weak, gets backed down in the post, inability to establish position in post, all 100% still true after 3 years of developing.

tbh, I don't really see where he's improved at all in any area since he was drafted. What has he been working on all this time?

[WTF]

STRENGTHS: - Excellent skill-level - Mismatch Potential - Scoring instincts - Timing - Ability to put ball on floor - Excellent hands - Excellent Touch - Finesse - Ability to contest shots - Shot-blocking tools - Potential - Basketball instincts - Ability to finish around basket - Coordination - Size for position - Wingspan - Defensive rebounding - 3-point range - 3-point shooting percentages - Ability to catch and shoot - Ability to shoot off the dribble - Shooting mechanics

WEAKNESSES: - Ability to get to free throw line - Inability to establish position in post - Ability to defend position at next level? - Ability to fight through screens - Foul prone - Gets backed down in post - Lateral quickness - Avoids contact - Body language - Maturity - Mental/Physical toughness? - Bad knees? - Ability to finish through contact - Average athleticism - Core strength - Frail frame - Lacks explosiveness - Lower body strength - Strength - Slow release

From DraftExpress.com [Only admins are allowed to see this link]

Are these Daye's scouting reports? If so, wow, they are spot on in his weaknesses.

Saying his ability to put the ball on the floor is a strength though, couldn't be further from accurate. Unless they mean literally put the ball on the floor, as in coughing it up all over the place everytime he tries to dribble. lol.

And listing coordination as a strength is mind-boggling. He's one of the most uncoordinated players I've ever seen.

But Frail frame, immature, mentally/physically weak, gets backed down in the post, inability to establish position in post, all 100% still true after 3 years of developing.

tbh, I don't really see where he's improved at all in any area since he was drafted. What has he been working on all this time?

Yep this is the pre-draft story and here we are three NBA seasons later and nothings changed

[frankied]

rookie mistakes?
have you seen ben gordon play?
an 8 year vet who throws the ball away like he was still in grade school?
he still got sent back out onto the court time after time? why isn't he on the bench, having to "earn" his PT by showing that he's not going to throw the ball around like it was a hot potato.
rookie mistakes?
maxiell going zeroes all along the stat line, blowing put-back dunks time after time, taking more shots - and making 1 - than the team's shooting guard and generally looking like a big doofus out there. talk about embarassing! how embarrassing is it to have a fat guy who does nothing but make a spectacular dunk every once in a while running up and down the court, like the goodyear blimp.
not earning playing time?
tay? is he earning his 35 minutes a game? is the coach coddling him by sending him out there?
i guess doug collins was coddling jodie meeks by starting him even though he was shooting about 28% for the first 6 or 7 games, in a slump almost as bad as dayes.
doug freakin collins? collins "coddling" anybody?
are you kidding me.
no, he's being a good coach cause he knows that he is going to need jodie meeks and the best way to get him right is to show confidence in him and deal with him as an individual, not some generalized athlete.
anyone who has ever taught or coached or dealt with kids or young people in any capacity knows that you cannot deal with each and every one of them in the same way. you take each person on their own terms and do what you have to do to get through to them and help them perform to their potential.
obviously that is not happening with daye.
as i've said before, they knew darn well when they drafted him that he was immature and needed sensitive handling which is why lots of teams passed on a guy who had a lot of skill. you can go back and read the scouting reports on places like nbadraft.net or draftexpress and you'll see that everyone understood what kind of potential head case he was. to draft a kid, understand that he's going to need a bit of special handling and then all of a sudden turn into a drill seargent, telling him to just suck it up...well, that is what bad organizations do and it is exactly why they find themselves in the position they are in with daye.
this is from nbadraft.net:
"Needs to gain consistency on his shot, he goes through droughts and this causes a downward spiral for his entire game..."
d'oh!! who could have thought that....causes a downward spiral for his entire game...exactly what we've seen this year.
the whole idea that handling athletes in a way that recognizes their uniqueness is "coddling" an athlete is ridiculous.
was daly coddling rodman when he coached him?
course not. he coached "dennis rodman", not a draft choice from some small college who needed a kick in the a@@. it is called good coaching, not coddling. and it is the difference between losing players and getting the best out of them.

[frankied]

of course he hasn't progressed as he should have progressed.
it is the same sad story that has happened with lots of young guys here.
i won't even name them cause we know who they are.
that is the organization's fault, for not putting the proper resources into the development of their young players. it is a choice that has been made and we keep seeing the negative results with young player after young player.
btw, the primary way you develop young guys is to play them. good teams take young guys, put them into positions where they can succeed and hopefully have a good asset that they can either keep or trade.
an example...
george hill with the pacers.
san antonio made sure he got on the court and got good experience and after a couple of years, they were able to trade a guy who had been a late first round pick for the 15th pick in a good draft.
that is how you handle young guys. you play them, develop them and then figure out what you want to do with them. you don't let them rot on a bench and then wonder why they haven't turned into the player you thought they should be.

[Flip]

I agree, thats what I was getting at, its the organization fault. You have a player who has shown no signs of improvement for 3 years. What have they been doing to develop him?

I get the sense Monroe is doing it all on his own, and dont give them any credit for his development.

[deusXango]

Daye is a head case so I don't agree that it's as simple as some slump that he's going to play his way out of so I think he should be gifted PT.

being the best player on the team during preseason is earning PT. a player who does that, like daye did, is not being "gifted" minutes. he's shown that he at least deserves a legitmate shot.

During the "pre-season" Lawrence Frank stated that his rotation and starters would be based on performance! Austin Daye was the leading scorer on the team playing out of the backcourt. Gordon was practicing sucking and Stuckey was holding out for $10 million a year, money that he hasn't earned 1/3rd of, but I digress, Daye was playing up to our expectations then the season started and we know who Lil Larry tapped to be his starting backcourt. Is Daye a head case? Yeah. What's going on in his head? He probably don't give a shit because he's been lied to. Now all you politically corrects come on out from under your rocks. We got a cowardly GM and a lying ass coach.

[frankied]

I agree, thats what I was getting at, its the organization fault. You have a player who has shown no signs of improvement for 3 years. What have they been doing to develop him?

I get the sense Monroe is doing it all on his own, and dont give them any credit for his development.

i think monroe's g-town background helps. g-town is famous for its big guys, and i'd bet that monroe has had some private tutoring from guys like mourning and ewing and even indiana's big guy. it's a real fraternity there - the big men - and they keep in contact and help each other.
i'd like to know if he has played with them and turned to them for help.

[FlyDog]

He looks like he's from another planet. If he doesn't get his shit together, he'll be sitting on the end of a bench in China next year. Fair or not.

[FlyDog]

Great job of getting Daye ready for the rigors of the NBA, pal. It looks like he is bulking up on hemp root and Skittles. Funny how Amir Johnson left town looking the same way, and now he has gone from boy to man once he skipped town. Yes.........his body is embarrassing. Not ready for competition at this level. Period.

[FlyDog]

From the first through last second he was on the court, I never ONCE questioned his will, hustle or toughness. Not once. Immature.........crazy? Absolutely. But he sold himself out when on the court. Austin Daye is not cut from the same cloth as Dennis Rodman.

[frankied]

From the first through last second he was on the court, I never ONCE questioned his will, hustle or toughness. Not once. Immature.........crazy? Absolutely. But he sold himself out when on the court. Austin Daye is not cut from the same cloth as Dennis Rodman.

of course daye and rodman are different players and different people. in fact, my guess is that daye is a heckuva lot easier to handle than rodman, who was an obvious, bonafide nutcase. daye is just your typically insecure, immature athlete.
the one thing they have in common is the fact that they both need/needed a different touch and approach than a coach might use with most of the other players on the squad.
there were times when rodman couldn't make a layup.
times when he would rebound the ball immediately under the basket and dribble the ball away from the basket or pass it out to the perimeter even though he had a wide open layup because he didn't want to have the embarrassment of blowing another wide open layup.
what do you think kuester of frank would do if daye or another rookie did the same thing?
my guess, based on how he has responded so far, would be to take daye - or rodman if he'd coached him - out of the game immediately. and in the process helped to kill a talented player's confidence.
how much "will" does a player have if he passes up wide open layups during games, causing his teams points.
how many coaches would put up with a player passing up wide open layups?
how many times would that be looked at as a lack of aggression that couldn't be tolerated?
the best coaches deal with players individually. phil jackson stated specifically that life wasn't fair and that he dealt with every player on the team in a different way. that is what a coach is supposed to do.
yes, a guy like rodman was a bit more obvious about his hustle, but he gave his coach plenty of headaches with his on-court play. it was to daly's credit as a coach that he was able to deal with him and get the best out of him.
too many other nba coaches would have buried rodman on the bench until he'd prove that he would take and make a simple layup, which may have never happened.
it is the job of an organization to try to exploit the talents of their players, however they have to do it. and if they don't want to take a bit more care than is usual for a particular player, they should get rid of that player, asap.

[cool breeze]

From the first through last second he was on the court, I never ONCE questioned his will, hustle or toughness. Not once. Immature.........crazy? Absolutely. But he sold himself out when on the court. Austin Daye is not cut from the same cloth as Dennis Rodman.

too many other nba coaches would have buried rodman on the bench until he'd prove that he would take and make a simple layup, which may have never happened.
it is the job of an organization to try to exploit the talents of their players, however they have to do it. and if they don't want to take a bit more care than is usual for a particular player, they should get rid of that player, asap.

Frankied you make an interesting argument but I do not believe Rodman and Daye have anything in common relating to how a coach might approach improving them as players and getting the best out of them. First off, Rodman stood out early on as an amazing athlete who had a motor that would not quit and an amazing body that allowed him to function in oxygen debt better than 98% of all humans on the face of the earth. Dailey clearly had a real NBA player who was quick to the basketball, had great instincts as to where the basketball would be going off the rim on a miss, and could run the floor better than almost anyone in the league. What I am saying is that Rodman could do several things really well at the get go where as Daye came into the league as a project who could shoot the outside shot well. A coach can use a player in games if they can rebound and play terrific defense and play with a lot of energy. There is no coach in the game that could somehow create something out of nothing. If you do not have quick feet, have no concept of boxing out on weak side rebounding, cannot pass the basketball well, cannot move well without the basketball, cannot run the floor very fast, and now cannot shoot the basketball well, how in hell can anyone blame the coaching staff??? You can bet that Frank would be really happy to have Dennis Rodman as a rookie right now. He would play the entire game and the coach could care less if Rodman missed a layup or refused to shoot the basketball. On this Piston team you do not have to do many things right to get playing time. That is why I am puzzled that Macklin is not getting his share of playing time. It sure can't be that Maxiell is the better player for the Pistons. We need size and Macklin has size. I am upset with the coaching staff for not getting Macklin into the rotation. My guess is that Joe Dumars has some bogus plan to trade Maxiell by giving him a lot of playing time. That has backfired because no team in the league wants him. By the way, do you believe that Chuck Dailey could have improved the way Bynum and Gordon play defense? I think not. And although Bynum might have scored 20 points during the last game, he is not good for the team. Bynum transfered from Arizona because he couldn't play defense well and could not handle the point guard position. He has gotten a lot better but as Prince said in the News article, the team has no rhythm and the NBA is all about winning teams having some type of positive rhythm. You cannot have any rhythm is a guy dribbles the basketball for 15 seconds of the shot clock. This team lacks real NBA players. The players who are getting the lyons share of the money cannot play at the NBA level. No coach can win in the NBA without the talent. Thanks Mr. Dumars!!

[cool breeze]

The Pistons are not only the worst team in basketball, they lead the league in the lowest attendence. This article was great. If some of you have not had a chance to read it, please do. If the way the Pistons lose remains the same, I cannot believe that Joe Dumars will be part of the Piston organization next spring.

[Oracle]

Face it, this Pistons organization under Joe lately has been a meat grinder for young players, and a graveyard for losers.

Daye has already proved that he can play, that shouldn't even be a question. The only question is if he fits what we want to do now, and in the future.

He's not here because he wants to be, he's here because somebody actually believed he fit a need... it's not Daye's fault, as we all know.

Still, IMO, Daye should spend more time in the weight room instead of Planking with Cahrlie V. Unless he wants Planking to do for him what it's done for Charlie.

Somebody called Charlie V a candy ass. Imo, he's a Saccharin Candy Ass, not even the real thing!

[Flip]

The Pistons are not only the worst team in basketball, they lead the league in the lowest attendence. This article was great. If some of you have not had a chance to read it, please do. If the way the Pistons lose remains the same, I cannot believe that Joe Dumars will be part of the Piston organization next spring.

yeah, that was a great article. I know most of the Pro-Joe Beatwriters will tell you Joe isnt going anywhere, but we'll see what Gores has to say about that when he's making 0 profit because Joe's product is so awful.

I don't know all the details, but I assume owners make most of their money off ticket sales and concessions. Well, no one is buying tickets because Joe's product is so bad. It only makes sense that Gores would seek to find a better GM that can put a better product on the floor, increase ticket sales, and start making Gores a profit from this huge investment.

The one good thing we have going for the prospect of Joe getting fired vs what we had with Millen, is fortunately the fans aren't showing up to watch this mess. The problem we had in getting Millen fired was that fans kept selling out Ford Field. That won't be an obstacle getting Joe canned, and might be the reason he does get ousted.

[Flip]

Still, IMO, Daye should spend more time in the weight room instead of Planking with Cahrlie V. Unless he wants Planking to do for him what it's done for Charlie.

Somebody called Charlie V a candy ass. Imo, he's a Saccharin Candy Ass, not even the real thing!

LOL, they both can walk the plank into the Detroit River.

One thing about Joe's teams in the early-mid 00's is I liked almost every player he acquired, as a player and person. Coincidence maybe, but he just seemed to always get guys I had been fans of from other teams like Rip, Corliss, Barry, etc, and guys you could root for to succeed.

Aside from Monroe, Knight, Jerebko, and Big Ben, I don't just not like these players, I hate all of them and I really cant root for any of em. Its like Joe's goal was to create the Anti-Goin-To-Work team. You just cant root for these guys.

[deusXango]

"That is why I am puzzled that Macklin is not getting his share of playing time. It sure can't be that Maxiell is the better player for the Pistons. We need size and Macklin has size. I am upset with the coaching staff for not getting Macklin into the rotation. My guess is that Joe Dumars has some bogus plan to trade Maxiell by giving him a lot of playing time."

-Cool Breeze

Don, I'll bet ya' that Macklin is traded before Maxiell, and before Maxiell's contract is up here, Macklin will have "blown up" wherever he goes. That's the way Joe does things.

[deusXango]

I wonder what it would take to get the rights to Wilson Chandler? The starting SF spot needs addressing as much as the center spot, maybe more.

[deusXango]

Is there a team in the NBA that has more amnesty candidates than the Detroit Pistons? Chilling thought, that was.

[frankied]

The Pistons are not only the worst team in basketball, they lead the league in the lowest attendence. This article was great. If some of you have not had a chance to read it, please do. If the way the Pistons lose remains the same, I cannot believe that Joe Dumars will be part of the Piston organization next spring.

yeah, that was a great article. I know most of the Pro-Joe Beatwriters will tell you Joe isnt going anywhere, but we'll see what Gores has to say about that when he's making 0 profit because Joe's product is so awful.

I don't know all the details, but I assume owners make most of their money off ticket sales and concessions. Well, no one is buying tickets because Joe's product is so bad. It only makes sense that Gores would seek to find a better GM that can put a better product on the floor, increase ticket sales, and start making Gores a profit from this huge investment.

The one good thing we have going for the prospect of Joe getting fired vs what we had with Millen, is fortunately the fans aren't showing up to watch this mess. The problem we had in getting Millen fired was that fans kept selling out Ford Field. That won't be an obstacle getting Joe canned, and might be the reason he does get ousted.

One name...Kevin Pritchard, former Blazer GM.

[Flip]

The Pistons are not only the worst team in basketball, they lead the league in the lowest attendence. This article was great. If some of you have not had a chance to read it, please do. If the way the Pistons lose remains the same, I cannot believe that Joe Dumars will be part of the Piston organization next spring.

yeah, that was a great article. I know most of the Pro-Joe Beatwriters will tell you Joe isnt going anywhere, but we'll see what Gores has to say about that when he's making 0 profit because Joe's product is so awful.

I don't know all the details, but I assume owners make most of their money off ticket sales and concessions. Well, no one is buying tickets because Joe's product is so bad. It only makes sense that Gores would seek to find a better GM that can put a better product on the floor, increase ticket sales, and start making Gores a profit from this huge investment.

The one good thing we have going for the prospect of Joe getting fired vs what we had with Millen, is fortunately the fans aren't showing up to watch this mess. The problem we had in getting Millen fired was that fans kept selling out Ford Field. That won't be an obstacle getting Joe canned, and might be the reason he does get ousted.

One name...Kevin Pritchard, former Blazer GM.

I'd be ok with Pritchard. I also think they should look at somebody from Presti's staff, who has been there through their whole rebuild, and knows how to build a young team into a playoff contender.

[Flip]

The sight of the Pistons scattering quickly after Tuesday's loss to the reigning NBA champion Dallas Mavericks, before traveling today for Thursday's game against the Bucks, was telling.

They had an optional practice today, and with a night at home, several key Pistons, including Greg Monroe and Brandon Knight, were dressed and walking out of the arena by the time head coach Lawrence Frank's frustration-laden press conference was complete.

Even Vernon Macklin, who finally got some playing time against Dallas in a 100-86 loss which wasn't that close, escaped before Frank's press conference ended and the media contingent – it's not exactly a horde these days – converged upon the Pistons' locker room.

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[frankied]

just saw the clippers beat miami in overtime, but not before the refs tried as hard as they could to give the game to miami.
it was incredible.
a home game for the clippers, but the refs were obviously doing everything they could to give the game to miami.
btw, chauncey was up to his old tricks. he suckered lebron into fouling him in the last minute and he put LA up in regulation time because he got 3 foul shots on the foul shots.
funny, last night chauncey took the lead, tonight, cp3 took the lead. but chauncey still looked like the clutch player at the end.
whenever you see chauncey, it makes joe d's trade look more ridiculous.

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