Re: FORUM

[cool breeze]

So Weaver just snagged a guy.  A guy who is fairly young, reportedly smart, and most impressive, has a scouting background.  As an Assistant General Manager with an eye to scouting and strategy seems encouraging.

So being optimistic, it may now appear that with Weaver and Mincberg, the Stones new lead focus is talent evaluation.  Could we possibly, for like the first time in ages, snag the steal of the draft?  It’s a stunning idea to consider.

Naah.  Of course not.  

Ballin I think your wishes might become a reality. For many years the Pistons have had a lackluster history relating to their inept scouting operations. I personally witnessed a Piston scout sitting two seats away from me walk out of a game at halftime after making a statement to a scout from the Bulls that there were no potential NBA players who were playing in that game. The game involved Stanford and Arizona. It turned out that 3 players from Stanford and 4 players from Arizona went on to have careers in the NBA. I think the Pistons have been cavalier about how important it is to actually interview coaching staffs about players they are thinking about drafting as well as doing basic background history on the players. That game goes back many years and I suspect there has been more emphasis on scouting but up until now, I have felt that this current ownership group has not believed in building through the draft. The Pistons got real lucky when they were able to get the players who won the last championship by the Pistons. They drafted one good player in Prince who contributed in a big way. Last year Piston management reminded me of the old days that put a blemish on Joe Dumars amazing career when management failed in every way to find out the facts about exactly who that 2nd overall pick should have been. Take your pick either Wade or Anthony would have brought at least one or 2 more championships and no complete collapse. We have been in the dark ages since. Last year the Pistons needed a solid player to shore up their defense. There were several proven players. Instead our leaders decided to select a player they knew very little about much like Darko. In the summer league it was clear that Detroit's first round pick was a project type player who would have had a hard time earning minutes in a good college program. Maybe this will turn out to be a really lucky pick but at the time, it was clear that management had no clue what they needed to improve their team.

Now to add to the good news with this hire in scouting, I like the news that the Pistons might be shopping Rose. Now why not Blake Griffin or is it impossible to move his contract? We need lots of draft picks. There will be some good players in the 2nd round of this coming draft if there actually is a draft this year as well as middle to late first round. Go Pistons? Will there actually be a basketball season this winter either for college or the NBA because of the China Virus?

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https://detroitsportstalk.forumotion.com/viewtopic.php?t=178

[BallinD]

So Weaver just snagged a guy. A guy who is fairly young, reportedly smart, and most impressive, has a scouting background. As an Assistant General Manager with an eye to scouting and strategy seems encouraging.

So being optimistic, it may now appear that with Weaver and Mincberg, the Stones new lead focus is talent evaluation. Could we possibly, for like the first time in ages, snag the steal of the draft? It’s a stunning idea to consider.

Naah. Of course not.

[Sparma]

The optimistic part of me thinks that Troy Weaver will be given every opportunity to do the kind of OKC tried for years. The pessimist in me thinks a lot of the reason he was hired was for expressing agreement with the be-competitive-right away philosophy that Tom Gores has insisted on for a crummy stretch of close to a decade now. The pessimist part's winning out until there's strong evidence to the contrary.

Strange times in Pistonland.  Wanna like Troy Weaver, but his “restore” comments again make me think the rebuild is an illusion or as Gores might say “ain’t nothing changed.”  Casey clearly wants to play vets all day everyday.

Now if we trade Rose n Snell for a pick, or amnesty Blake, sign a young SF prospect like Josh Jackson, or we snag a young stud in Free Agency, I will believe we are rebuilding but not necessarily believe in it.

Cause we could then trade Luke for a pick into a weak draft (hope not) or not resign Wood cause he’s too old. (24). Or bank on a mediocre core player like Bruce Brown, etc. or let Casey continue to screw with Sekous head.  

The cupboard is pretty bare...1 single solitary pick...and the mistake probabilities are endless.  Just not feeling it. And while Weaver and Casey could be a strength, color me extremely skeptical that at least one of them (you know who) is a liability.  Hope Im wrong.

[BallinD]

Strange times in Pistonland. Wanna like Troy Weaver, but his “restore” comments again make me think the rebuild is an illusion or as Gores might say “ain’t nothing changed.” Casey clearly wants to play vets all day everyday.

Now if we trade Rose n Snell for a pick, or amnesty Blake, sign a young SF prospect like Josh Jackson, or we snag a young stud in Free Agency, I will believe we are rebuilding but not necessarily believe in it.

Cause we could then trade Luke for a pick into a weak draft (hope not) or not resign Wood cause he’s too old. (24). Or bank on a mediocre core player like Bruce Brown, etc. or let Casey continue to screw with Sekous head.

The cupboard is pretty bare...1 single solitary pick...and the mistake probabilities are endless. Just not feeling it. And while Weaver and Casey could be a strength, color me extremely skeptical that at least one of them (you know who) is a liability. Hope Im wrong.

[deusXango]

I read an interesting piece the other day suggesting that Weaver and Casey would make a great team or some such. I hear Stefanski and Tellum names keep being mentioned in authoritative terms, all while Weaver is being glad-handed and welcomed aboard as the Pistons GM. Who has the final word as far as player personal goes? Who's actually making decisions on how to spend the CAP money and who'll be deciding who the Pistons draft? These questions popped into my head because it seems like too many chiefs and not enough Indians. Who's really making decisions on Griffin, Rose, and Snell?

Of the three highest paid players, only one has any real value right now, Derrick Rose, who's on a one year contract. Griffin has yet to prove he's worth that monstrous contract the team is tied to. Snell is the beneficiary of phantom play (as is Galloway) who doesn't contribute to wins on either side of the ball. Snell is the second highest paid and I wonder where does he fit in the "win now" mentality. There wouldn't be a place on The Bad Boys or Going To Work Crew for Snell; think about it and get honest. Who could he replace?! We need Rose, for a number of reasons, but the other two?

We all know that Wood deserves to be a Piston but, why're we questioning the teams ability to re-sign him? I have nothing to substantiate this line of thinking but, I believe that's Casey's thinking on the matter. This guy who couldn't stick with a team is not going to ask for a max contract but rather, a I'm glad to finally belong somewhere contract. All our GM needs to do is be fair. What would be unfair? Wasting CAP money to re-sign Galloway, that'd be unfair. We have one, possibly top five, draft pick and CAP money to pursue a top tier FA so I'm of the opinion that every cent counts!

This draft pick; say Toppin, Okongwu, Hayes, and Avdija, are on the board when we pick, which way do we go and who decides? How would you feel if it was announced we took Cole Anthony, and Big Ed is talking sh!t from the podium, justifying this move? Casey is applauding this move and Weaver unceremoniously quits. How would you feel? Ed Stefanski is here to reign Tom Gores into a state of reality. It's Gores team and he deserves a winner, he just doesn't know how to get there. Dwane Casey, is and should be, a lame duck coach. His voice should be stilled when it comes to team makeup; get the most from what he's given and prove he's the coach we thought he was when he was hired or allow Weaver to make his own choice for who's going to coach this team. I just want Troy Weaver be more than a figurehead, but see how he performs as a GM with GM power.

[Sparma]

In the interest of fairness, I contacted a spokesperson for Tom Gores who was nice enough to respond in a dream to criticisms of Tom Gores.

She said: "Mr. Gores' commitment to being competitive right away has always been a good plan. But as he told me the other day: 'It's been an unlucky decade.' Mr. Gores realized that Joe Dumars was a genius in constructing the Going to Work champs, and deserved some time to get it right. Deferring to him, a 1st rounder was given away, that allowed for the signing of Josh Smith. Stan van Gundy proved to be an excellent signing by Mr. Gores, when he got rid of Josh, even though that did put a pinch in the budget to the present day. Van Gundy proved himself to be the PG whisperer when the team began to play really well with Brandon Jennings, who unfortunately got injured. The trade for Reggie Jackson worked out really well, until he too ran into injury troubles. Everyone knows how brilliantly Blake Griffin played in this one healthy season here. The team really had turned the corner until he got hurt late in the year. And Mr. Gores's favorite player, Andre Drummond, improved year after year, playing at All Star level; unfortunately, the team couldn't convince him any long term deal would need to be for under 20 mil per year. The team came so, so close to being excellent. A healthy Blake and Reggie, combined with a healthy Rose, would have been such a dynamic combination with our own draftees of Drummond and Kennard. Some claim the Pistons have the most bleak future of any team in the league. Ridiculous. This is such an opportunity for Mr. Gores. He's completely on board with Troy Weaver's plan for a restoration, rather than a rebuilding. This time his vision of immediate competitiveness will work, because the bad luck of the past decade can't continue. When you combine a healthy Blake with a healthy Rose and …."

I felt sorry to wake up before hearing the full report of the vision of Gores that she was passing along. I trust enough was conveyed to put worries by critics like Cool Breeze and Murph to rest.

[Murph]

“Thanks again China for not telling the world that you closed down the city where this virus originated to all other parts of China in early December or possibly before, but allowed citizens of that city to travel to America and Western Europe. W.H.O. also was aware of that fact and did not disclose that information to our C.D.C. until weeks or months later. As no Americans were allowed to investigate what was happening, we were blindsided by both China and the W.H.O.. We have to hope for for a cure and put this nightmare to bed and get ready for the next one. “

Not only that, we have satellite images of Wuhan hospitals from last Sept - November. The satellite images show that the hospital parking lots had 2 to 3 times the number of cars in them as normal for that time of year. This indicates that the number of patients at those hospitals was 2 to 3 times higher than normal for those times. This indicates that Wuhan very likely had some kind of health issue city wide as early as last September. Whatever could that health issue have been?

The obvious implications are that the COVID outbreak in Wuhan began last September, long before it was officially acknowledged by the CCP in January, and long before the world became aware of it in December. And that local and/or national officials swept it all under the rug until they could no longer deny it.

That is just insanely irresponsible behavior on the part of the CCP.

[cool breeze]

It's a time for hope about the future of the Pistons, so I'm attempting to be hopeful.

Still, Troy Weaver said something worrisome in an interview with Jim Rome: "My philosophy matches Mr. Gores's."

Being competitive was his theme, along with his skepticism regarding long term rebuilding plans (rather than restoration).

Weaver's done a lot of impressive things, and he could be tremendous for the Pistons.

I think the longstanding woes of the Pistons under Gores' ownership trace above all to him hiring people who agree with his "philosophy" (of being competitive straightaway, and of being skeptical regarding the need for hard short term sacrifices in pursuit of a long term plan): SVG, Casey, and now it sounds like Weaver too.

Stefanski may have been the exception, but his record's hard to interpret, not least because of his fuzzy status.

I dearly hope my concern will prove to be misplaced!

Sparma I agree those comments were not what most Piston fans want to hear. We want change in philosophy not more of the same insanity. It reminds me of never learning why America should not fight limited wars where the political leaders provide no goal or plan to win but put you into harms way to please their donors. Will Weaver act independently making sound decisions on a real rebuild or continue on making knee jerk decisions like making that trade for Blake Griffin? If there is a slight chance to trade Griffin and Rose for draft picks and expiring contracts and they pass on that idea, then we fans will be left with no hope and feel less interest in the Detroit Pistons. This owner has to change his thinking if he hasn't yet done it. Maybe Weaver is making his current comments because Tom Gores has made that change. We will know on by draft day.

By the way, many NBA fans are really not very interested in the plan to resume play and have the playoffs drag on to conflict with possible college football and NFL games if football will actually be played in 2020 at all. It seems very complicated to me as the Covid 19 situation is still a mystery in many respects as to if or when we will be rid of it. A close friend of mine here has a grandson who plays for the Washington Capitals and they are now in training camp. His grandson gets tested once every other day for with a saliva type test for Covid. My wife is wondering why nobody cares as much about the doctors and Nurses who don't get tested unless they become sick. Maybe in other parts of the country that happens but not in Arizona. Testing costs money and as many aspects of the China Virus remains unknown, details have not been worked out as to the time frame of testing for hospital workers. Patients who get non Covid surgery are tested within 24 hours of surgery. A doctor in my wife's unit recently retired and needed surgery. He tested negative and had the surgery and within 4 days after the surgery passed out and was taken to the ER where he tested positive for Covid and is now really sick. Maybe Health care workers are not as important as professional athletes or perhaps the owners of professional sports teams have more money to pay for the testing but could be flying by the seat of their pants trying to make it look like they have the plan to combat Covid.

Thanks again China for not telling the world that you closed down the city where this virus originated to all other parts of China in early December or possibly before, but allowed citizens of that city to travel to America and Western Europe. W.H.O. also was aware of that fact and did not disclose that information to our C.D.C. until weeks or months later. As no Americans were allowed to investigate what was happening, we were blindsided by both China and the W.H.O.. We have to hope for for a cure and put this nightmare to bed and get ready for the next one.

Happy 4th of July everyone. Celebrate our freedom that people in many countries do not enjoy. Americans are tough. We will come together. Remember the 400,000 plus young men and women who died fighting the German Socialist Workers party war machine and Japan on this 4th of July and hope that some group doesn't attempt to close down this holiday.

Don't forget the US Airborne units called up to the front lines while regular troops were retreating during the battle of Bastogne. Those soldiers had not been issued winter clothing and many were still suffering from wounds received from fighting in Holland (Operation Market-Garden). They also did not have many working weapons to fight with at the time they arrived to the front lines. They were outside in sub zero temperatures for weeks if they survived. Troops that didn't leave the front and held on until the American special forces units arrived was an all Black field artillery unit. The 333rd Artillery Battalion landed on Normandy during D-Day and never backed down. One of my teachers in high school was a 101st Screaming Eagle 19 year old paratrooper who was with the 101st Airborne at Bastogne. He talked a lot about the 333rd and said that he hadn't eaten anything for 3 days when he and his buddy happened to walk into the 333rd camp almost unable to walk from frozen feet. They were immediately brought into a tent where they enjoyed hot coffee and a fantastic breakfast from this segregated unit of real heroes. My teacher always said there is no color in war. Like the 101st soldiers, the 333rd suffered heavy casualties. They exchanged names and addresses and my teacher remained in touch with his new buddies throughout his life. They returned home and instead of feeling like victims, worked hard and overcame obstacles to create happy and successful lives. This is the history our schools should be teaching young kids instead of the hate they are told to teach by administrators in public schools. My teacher had dropped out of high school to join the army as a 17 year old. He was a 19 year old kid suffering from wounds, the cold, and was scared out of his mind when he fought in Bastogne. People should remember their courage. Meanwhile, how much courage does it take for a White man and woman who happen to be lawyers who were recently charged with throwing a fire ball during a riot at night in an alleged attempt to burn down a building. The ends do not justify the means. Celebrate the good men and women of America. There are many who live here.

[lemonpen]

Don't let the alcohol  cause you to let your guard down.
Stay safe.

[Sparma]

It's a time for hope about the future of the Pistons, so I'm attempting to be hopeful.

Still, Troy Weaver said something worrisome in an interview with Jim Rome: "My philosophy matches Mr. Gores's."

Being competitive was his theme, along with his skepticism regarding long term rebuilding plans (rather than restoration).

Weaver's done a lot of impressive things, and he could be tremendous for the Pistons.

I think the longstanding woes of the Pistons under Gores' ownership trace above all to him hiring people who agree with his "philosophy" (of being competitive straightaway, and of being skeptical regarding the need for hard short term sacrifices in pursuit of a long term plan): SVG, Casey, and now it sounds like Weaver too.

Stefanski may have been the exception, but his record's hard to interpret, not least because of his fuzzy status.

I dearly hope my concern will prove to be misplaced!

[Sparma]

Good to hear from you, Merc.

Interesting statement by Sheed. I wonder what, specifically, he has against Gores? Is it simply the lack of success, or does he take offense more specifically to how Gores has treated the Back to Work crew?

btw, where did the like/ dislike buttons come from? Had the impression we were pretty much on our own. Not sure it's a helpful addition, given that we can generate plenty of volatility without that element.

I guess we know why Sheed never got a job offer from Gores

https://detroitsportsnation.com/rasheed-wallace-takes-instagram-trash-detroit-pistons-ownership/apowell/detroit-pistons-news/06/30/2020/228242/

[Murph]

There was a large portion of the Pistons fan base that was negatively against Andre Drummond and wanted him gone at all costs; they got their wish. I remember reading ad gagum of how Drummond blew an 8th seed run, going nowhere, by allowing a center of lessor talent to get by him and put an offensive rebound in, thus ending our ridiculous hopes of success. That allowed some to ignore his record setting rebounding accomplishments and minimize all his efforts to improve year-after-year. We were done with him at age 25! 25 is the age when players begin to come into their on. Issues were always made of what his owner chose to pay him. Fans that never contributed to his contract by buying season tickets, pay for anything from parking to refreshments but, took it upon themselves to judge another mans worth. IMHO Drummond's biggest mistake was embracing Reggie Jackson, and not the team. Well, they're gone and good riddance. Reggie is off to a competitor and Andre is off to a sh!t hole of a franchise (albeit more promising than my beloved Pistons). I sashayed down that road because I wonder why at this late date anyone would offer the Cleveland Cavaliers advise on holding off on Andre Drummond's extension. I thought he was no longer our problem.

From what I understand, both the Cavs and Drummond would like Drummond to stay in Cleveland and negotiate a contract extension.  Of course there are extenuating circumstances, namely COVID 19.  I mean, I don't think any team is going to sign any player to a big contract while this virus is still raging.  I mean how can you afford playing players when you're not even sure if you'll be playing games?

If an when the drug companies develop and distribute a vaccination, then I think you'll see teams and players rush to sign big, long term contracts, including Drummond and Cleveland.  I'm guessing 5 years at $150 million.

Say what you want about Drummond's BBIQ, etc, the man clearly helps teams win.  Detroit became perhaps the single worst team in the league last season once Drummond left, and the Cavs began to play their best basketball since Lebron  (in a limited sample size), once Drummond arrived.

[deusXango]

Hey Merc, I'm glad you're yet overcoming the challenges that life has put before you. I can't understand the day-to-day struggles you win but, I can and do applaud you meeting them and succeeding. God continue to bless and strengthen you.

Who's the top four on your draft board? It's a crap shoot in the top ten this year.

[deusXango]

There was a large portion of the Pistons fan base that was negatively against Andre Drummond and wanted him gone at all costs; they got their wish. I remember reading ad gagum of how Drummond blew an 8th seed run, going nowhere, by allowing a center of lessor talent to get by him and put an offensive rebound in, thus ending our ridiculous hopes of success. That allowed some to ignore his record setting rebounding accomplishments and minimize all his efforts to improve year-after-year. We were done with him at age 25! 25 is the age when players begin to come into their on. Issues were always made of what his owner chose to pay him. Fans that never contributed to his contract by buying season tickets, pay for anything from parking to refreshments but, took it upon themselves to judge another mans worth. IMHO Drummond's biggest mistake was embracing Reggie Jackson, and not the team. Well, they're gone and good riddance. Reggie is off to a competitor and Andre is off to a sh!t hole of a franchise (albeit more promising than my beloved Pistons). I sashayed down that road because I wonder why at this late date anyone would offer the Cleveland Cavaliers advise on holding off on Andre Drummond's extension. I thought he was no longer our problem.

What're we gonna do about a declining Griffin. How much sense does it make to re-sign Galloway and question if we can re-sign Wood...constantly! Would the minutes given to Snell be better invested in playing Doumbouya, Mykhailiuk, and King? That's our problem! Why don't we address our problems, without bias and favoritism, instead of spewing meaningless sound bites? There's a reason we can't get back to our state of past greatness.

[Murph]

Hey Merc...how's it hangin'? I'm glad to see your still among the living. This forum can't afford to lose any more members.

How're your cancer treatments going? My treatments ended 6 months ago and my blood tests have been good, so hopefully all that radiation put my cancer in remission for a while. I hope you're enjoying similar fortunes.

On Sheed...I hate to interrupt a good bitch session, but I don't think Sheed ever played for Gores. Maybe he misses Bill Davidson...like the rest of us.

I guess we know why Sheed never got a job offer from Gores

https://detroitsportsnation.com/rasheed-wallace-takes-instagram-trash-detroit-pistons-ownership/apowell/detroit-pistons-news/06/30/2020/228242/

[merc]

I guess we know why Sheed never got a job offer from Gores

https://detroitsportsnation.com/rasheed-wallace-takes-instagram-trash-detroit-pistons-ownership/apowell/detroit-pistons-news/06/30/2020/228242/

[Sparma]

Maker's got potential, but I don't think he deserves a 5 mil contract presently. I wonder if the team might not offer him 5 mil, but also tell him that they'd still be interested in signing him next year.

Isn't that kinda what the Lions did with Jarrad Davis?

I think they could carry both Patton and Maker on the roster, but Patton's signing probably does indicate a tepid commitment to Maker.

Is  the signing of Justin Patton for $2 million for this year is bad news for Thon Maker?  The Pistons might not make Thon a qualifying offer of $5 million for this year.  Maker could be history.

[Murph]

Is the signing of Justin Patton for $2 million for this year is bad news for Thon Maker? The Pistons might not make Thon a qualifying offer of $5 million for this year.  Maker could be history.

[cool breeze]

It is clear that Tellem has a lot of influence. Now with this great hire of Weaver, maybe the front office will get it right and stick with the plan. I also really liked the comments from Weaver when describing the type of players he wants to wear the Piston uniform while he is employed as the GM. He wants players who can compete at the highest level. No more lazy half time players who have a crafty way of just doing enough to get some stats for the next contract. We need winning type players who put their soul on the line so we can see it as fans.

Rose and Griffin have in the past played at an extremely high level. But their best days are behind them. So it appears that this time around management is going to do the right thing and make some good deals so we finally get some type of return for those two players. Do the rebuild right. That means no matter what Casey might say, Weaver must say NO to signing Galloway. Galloway just cannot compete at the level needed on defense to help a rising team. The Pistons need more draft picks this year and the next two years. They do not have very many bargaining chips other than the two former All Stars mentioned above.

Our first round pick last season was a total long shot and showed it on the hardwood. He has huge weaknesses in every facet of the current NBA game. He didn't shine in any area and did not play at the level Weaver talked about relating to the TYPE of player he is looking to bring on the roster. I wish reporters would stop mentioning his name as some sort of building block type player. Our number 1 pick last year has not earned that type of status. I am not trying to be critical just realistic. Piston management showed bad judgement last year because they needed to fill a need to bring better defenders in to help the team become tougher. Instead the team last season looked weak on the defensive end again.

Remember Isiah Thomas as a rookie. He was a sure thing.We all saw what we had right away. That is what Weaver is talking about. We need players who are great in at least 1 area to become eligible to get drafted by the Pistons. There were other players in the draft last season who were better equipped to make an impact in the NBA than the pick Detroit made. Now we have a GM who knows a lot of players. He puts in the work and will select a top notch scouting staff. For many years Detroit was known for having perhaps the worst scouting staff in the NBA. I would love it if some trades could be made before draft night. Nobody should be untouchable on this current roster if a potential trade partner is willing to throw in draft picks. I would like to see 3 picks this year and at least 2 the following year. There are always really good players available in the 2nd round. So many so called experts who list players in the first round have no clue. I would love it if the Pistons can get a solid big man and Oregon's point guard who was the MVP in the PAC 12 and the best point guard to play in that league for a long time. Weaver must know that. I am extremely happy that Tom Gores is on the right path. Perhaps the Pistons will no longer be known as having the bleakest future in the NBA. Don't so anything stupid in free agency and get in a good financial position while securing young talent. Develop the young players and sign Wood if he wants to stay in Detroit.

We need to hope for a cure for the China Virus and trust the current leadership making decisions for the Pistons. Hospitals in Arizona are at full capacity which means my family will not be able to travel back to our home State of Michigan this summer.

[deusXango]

A mid-first round big man with potential...Henry Ellenson any body? I hope Mr. Weaver has stuck in his thumb and pulled out a plum. Perhaps the new regime is maneuvering for future upgrades at the PG position. I'm not accustomed to Pistons leadership being clever...forgive me for that opening statement.

[deusXango]

I read a piece that had the Timberwolves drafting LaMelo Ball; if that turns out to be true, how expendable would D'Angelo Russell become? I'd love to have Russell, if he could be had.

[Murph]

DX...yes, Okingwu looks like a very good prospect.  Maybe we should take him.  The draft services are comparing him to Bam Adebayo.  I would not be opposed to taking him.

Look, I think rebuilding is going to be a long process.  Long term, we have a lot of holes to fill at PG, center and even SF.  So it probably doesn’t matter in which order we try to fill those holes.  We could take a PG next year.  

We seem to be set at PF and SG.

[deusXango]

I'd stay away from Fred VanVleet as a FA signing, simply because Casey coached him before; he reminds me of Ben Gordon. Ben had a tremendous shooting year, elsewhere, but once Ihe signed that over-the-top contract in Detroit, his game turned to sh!t. Detroit has some good to great shooters now. Fred should remain a Raptor.

I'm with Murph, don't try to cobble together a low budget team because all we'll get is low budget results. Outside of re-signing Wood, I'd leave Henson, Knight, and Galloway alone. I'd keep Maker, but, I wouldn't start him! I'd want to see where his development has taken him.

Everyone in the lottery is dreaming of being in a position to draft LaMelo Ball, (including the Pistons) BUT, if history holds true and we're left out of the Ball prize, then I'm not in favor of going after the perceived "next best" PG but, the next best player for our team. In my estimation that'd be Onyeka Okongwu...Ben Wallace 2.0 with a blossoming offensive game. We'd be greatly disappointed with Wiseman (worse than Drummond for all those who hated him) and Edwards would destroy the team concept of playing two-way ball. Okongwu is a stud who's going to make some coach very happy. A rim-to-rim beast.

Now comes to the coaches ability, backbone, and willingness to be innovative. If a player is to have managed minutes as a safeguard against injury and the team benefits from those managed minutes by that player dominating as a sixth man, that's Blake Griffin not Derrick Rose. Griffin is the high priced investment in our superstar and it's more important that he stay on the floor than it is for him to start. Our starting unit is competitive with Griffin, it's competitive without him! With the Pistons playing Griffin as sixth man, that team is dominating or growing into dominance. That's coaches decision. Rose should be starting. Like all fans it takes moxy or madness to see what we're talking about. Consider this lineup. A frontline of Okongwu, Wood, and Doumbouya with Kennard and Rose starting in the backcourt. Griffin, Brown, Mykhailiuk, Maker, and Thomas makes for a better than average bench.

With the treasure chest of money made available to Weaver, the expiring contract of Snell, and the league wide respect our GM has I believe he'll come up with a young, top tier PG before the All-Star break. We don't have to blow $30M on scrap as we've done in the past.

[Murph]

Yes, my fear is that Casey, Weaver, Stefanski and Gores will try to cobble together a “competitive” team on the cheap. They will look to start Rose, Brown, Snell, Griffin and Wood or Maker.

The best case scenario is that that team stays healthy, wins 45 games, makes the 6th seed and loses in the first round. The worst case is that Rose and Griffin get hurt again, the team wins 28 games and comes in 10th or 12th in the East.

Meanwhile, the fans still stay away, the youngsters won’t get enough minutes to properly develop, we drop on the draft board, and put off rebuilding for another year.

but here we are, nearly a decade into the Tom Gores experience, and it's happened.

Keith Langlois: Troy Weaver "wants to put a *competitive* team on the floor – what Tom Gores has stipulated since buying the Pistons in 2011 and what Dwane Casey desires to coach."

Murph, I'd go along with the Griffin & Rose trade just because I'm afraid of where these front office guys are headed elsewhere.  A similar trade with Chicago has been floated, gaining a year away from the Griffin (sized) contract.  I'm convinced that if Rose is traded separately, he could land us at least a good 2nd, and maybe a low 1st.  Griffin could be traded later, when he stands to have some value.

Still, as strong as I fear the team's itch to be "competitive" straightway, I'd take the trade proposal you made.  

Griffin and Rose to Charlotte for Nicholas Batum's and Cody Zeller's expiring contracts.

We could cut Batum, and Zeller could start at center for a year.

That would make us really, really bad....bad enough to land a top 3 pick next year.    

[Sparma]

but here we are, nearly a decade into the Tom Gores experience, and it's happened.

Keith Langlois: Troy Weaver "wants to put a *competitive* team on the floor – what Tom Gores has stipulated since buying the Pistons in 2011 and what Dwane Casey desires to coach."

Murph, I'd go along with the Griffin & Rose trade just because I'm afraid of where these front office guys are headed elsewhere. A similar trade with Chicago has been floated, gaining a year away from the Griffin (sized) contract. I'm convinced that if Rose is traded separately, he could land us at least a good 2nd, and maybe a low 1st. Griffin could be traded later, when he stands to have some value.

Still, as strong as I fear the team's itch to be "competitive" straightway, I'd take the trade proposal you made.

Griffin and Rose to Charlotte for Nicholas Batum's and Cody Zeller's expiring contracts.

We could cut Batum, and Zeller could start at center for a year.

That would make us really, really bad....bad enough to land a top 3 pick next year.    

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