Stuckey vs Knight

[WTF]

This is why I don't like 1 year of college players players. This is why I was screaming go big with our 1st pick and grab Nolan Smith with a later pick by trading up if possible.

Don't get me wrong Knight has talent but a second year at KU might have been a good thing for him. These young guys get over hype too soon to fast, these are not Kobe and Lebron picks, these are not the Isiah, MJ and Magics coming out early.

[Flip]

We need a new Cleaner to remove the Stuckey, Gordon, Maxiell, and Gordon mess that will continue to cripple the Detroit Pistons.

I hope thats a typo - one Gordon is already one too many. Two is more than I could handle. lol

And I'll add Tayshaun to that list of overpaid, underperforming, unnecessary players that Joe has signed recently.

Here are Prince's season avg's that we are paying $8 mil/yr for -

Tayshaun
9 pts
3 rebs
2 asts
36% FG

[Flip]

This is what Joe chose to spend $16 mil/yr on in FA this year, when players like Nene, Gasol, and Chandler were had by other teams for less money

Stuckey
11 pts
3 rebs
5 asts
32% FG

Prince
9 pts
3 rebs
2 asts
36% FG

[cool breeze]

merc,

btw, i was against drafting daye, if anyone recalls. i screamed loud and long about it being a horrible pick, as i wanted the team to pick james johnson who went to chicago, and is now playing well in toronto.

that is what i don't see frank doing, especially with daye.
he is simply not getting through to his players.
the way this team plays, i could easily see it going on a long losing streak. maybe not 17 games, but double digits, for sure.
and, again, when that happens, it means that the coach just isn't able to communicate effectively with his players and he doesn't know what buttons to push to get them to perform.
i hope i am wrong, but i see lot of troubling signs that frank indeed has that problem.

Frankied you were not alone when Dumars used that draft pick on Daye. What was so great about this post that you created was that you actually watched Daye play his sissy style during his college days where his smart coach had to find a way to hide Daye on defense in order to use him. It is clear that Dumars after drafting Rodney White and Darko did not clean house with his inept college scouting crew. Anyone who actually watched Daye or interviewed his college coach would have figured out that Daye was a project type player who was known as a really soft player with the attitude of a cross dresser. He could hit the outside shot against a college calliber zone defense and that alone is why he received playing time. Chase Budinger outplayed him in every meeting and Dumars as always felt he needed to protect his number one draft choice from any competition for fear that people might think that he made a mistake again. Dumars was tough minded when it came to Rodney White but he felt that there would be too much heat on him if a guy like Budinger actually would beat him out in training camp. It should have been Daye who was taken late in the second round.

On the other issue relating to coach Frank I am not sure that any blame for the Pistons failure to be able to compete should be placed on Frank's shoulders. These players have gone though 3 coaches now. Last night the game reminded me of being in high school playing on the varsity and playing the JV team (Pistons). Then in college playing a scrimmage against the Freshmen team (Pistons). It is just so clear that the Pistons do not have enough players who can compete at the NBA level on most nights. I still enjoy watching this Piston team over last year's team though. I agree that our number two draft choice this past year cannot play any worse than most of our big men did last night. I really didn't think Monroe played a quality game either. Both he and JJ seemed too tired to fight for positioning on either end much of the time. Maxiell was a complete joke. We need to get a quality big man in the draft and remove Stuckey, Bynum, Gordon, Maxiell, and Charlie V somehow. I suspect that Mr. Gores might agree by now. We all anticipated a lot of empty seats at the Palace this season but the turnout is even more shocking than I would have thought and it should get worse as the winter storms settle in.

[cool breeze]

We need a new Cleaner to remove the Stuckey, Gordon, Maxiell, and Gordon mess that will continue to cripple the Detroit Pistons.

I hope thats a typo - one Gordon is already one too many. Two is more than I could handle. lol

And I'll add Tayshaun to that list of overpaid, underperforming, unnecessary players that Joe has signed recently.

Here are Prince's season avg's that we are paying $8 mil/yr for -

Tayshaun
9 pts
3 rebs
2 asts
36% FG

Sorry if my typo put you into cardiac arrest Flip. You are so right regarding Prince. So far, Prince looks like he is older than Ben Wallace. He seems to have lost a step but he has been playing defense with no help against some tough star players. Still, I was looking at his lift when trying to shoot the basketball and it appears watching on television that he can only jump two inches from a jump stop. 8 mil/yr is crazy for the way he is playing. What team would have paid him that kind of money based on the last two seasons?

[Flip]

who Joe was reportedly high on (among other things he was on, lol)

[Rett]

"The Lions, Tigers and Wings actually have star players....Oops and they all made the playoffs. Amazing how you can even put the Pistons in the same breath as these playoff team. Mayhem will have the LIons in a Superbowl before Joe get the Pistons above .500"




and for MANY years the Pistons were in the playoffs...and the LIONS (12 years) and TIGERS were scrubs only wishing they were!!!

[deusXango]

Tom Gores is a hard working, brilliant, and highly successful businessman; alas, he's not a basketball fan! What we have here is a casual game watcher. What could Joe Dumars possibly have said to Gores to prompt him to keep him on? How was this last FA signing period presented to Gores and got his approval for Prince and Stuckey? Why was Joe allowed to bid against himself for Stuckey's services when obviously there was no interest in him elsewhere? Flip has presented the numbers thus far, how is Joe looking his boss in the face? He signed a lame athlete in Prince. Didn't he know the physical status of the man? (I'll get back to why Frank is starting a one-legged man) Had Joe signed Stuckey to a "show me" contract by signing him to the qualifying offer extended he would not be playing up to that contract now! Why wasn't Joe trying to move players between the CBA settlement and Christmas? Why has he not acted like he's rebuilding around Greg Monroe?!

Lawrence Frank is not only continuing to play players out of position, but he's going to war with insufficient troops! Why start Tay when everybody knows he's hurt? Why start Stuckey at PG and not SG? If he's going to play Ben Wallace 10-20 minutes a night, why not start him in the first and third quarters allowing Monroe and Jerebko to play their natural positions for at least 20 minutes a game? Why is it that most posters on this site realize that Monroe is the best PF on the team and Jerebko is the best SF, but lil' Larry is missing that? How is it that a body like Vernon Macklin wastes away on the bench when we need interior help, but Wilkins, Daye, and Bynum find their way into the game?

This team sucks and the circleing of the drain starts not with the Rip Hamiltons or Tracy McGradys or bench laughter (at a real clown), but at the very top; from the highest office of management to the locker room, this team needs an overhaul in philosophy and thinking. Our beloved owner died and left a mad GM in charge and he has corrupted everything good this franchise has stood for. I gleefully await proof that I'm wrong!

[WTF]

"The Lions, Tigers and Wings actually have star players....Oops and they all made the playoffs. Amazing how you can even put the Pistons in the same breath as these playoff team. Mayhem will have the LIons in a Superbowl before Joe get the Pistons above .500"




and for MANY years the Pistons were in the playoffs...and the LIONS (12 years) and TIGERS were scrubs only wishing they were!!!

Yeah but today Joe Dumars has the slugs while the Tigers have Cy Young winning MVP pitcher, and Lions have a record breaking franchise QB and WR. And as bad as the Lions were they were at least entertaining and soldout Ford Field and the Dome. Thank God you didn't attempt to diss the Wings

I know you want to hold on to 2004 like it was yesterday Rett, but what has Joe done for you lately? No one wants to talk about that elephant in the room.

[WTF]

DX I would fire everybody, change color scheme, hell bring back the Teal!!!! The first thing I would do is fire Blaha, Kelser, Mateen, KL and Mason right after I fire Joe's Fat Arse. Then I'll only allow interviews to the Oakland Press.

[Flip]

DX I would fire everybody, change color scheme, hell bring back the Teal!!!! The first thing I would do is fire Blaha, Kelser, Mateen, KL and Mason right after I fire Joe's Fat Arse. Then I'll only allow interviews to the Oakland Press.

Wise - Isn't it odd that Gores has been cleaning house all over the Palace since he got here, but all the ppl that are being replaced had little to nothing to do with the mess on the floor, and the ppl who were most responsible are all still here?

As much as I love Blaha, I have to agree that his act is getting a bit old. I enjoyed Matt Shepard's call of the ORL game better than I do Blaha nowadays.

Blaha, KL, Mateen, etc have been trying to sell us polished turds for years now and no one is buying them anymore.

[Grizz]

Tom Gores is a hard working, brilliant, and highly successful businessman; alas, he's not a basketball fan! What we have here is a casual game watcher. What could Joe Dumars possibly have said to Gores to prompt him to keep him on? How was this last FA signing period presented to Gores and got his approval for Prince and Stuckey? Why was Joe allowed to bid against himself for Stuckey's services when obviously there was no interest in him elsewhere? Flip has presented the numbers thus far, how is Joe looking his boss in the face? He signed a lame athlete in Prince. Didn't he know the physical status of the man? (I'll get back to why Frank is starting a one-legged man) Had Joe signed Stuckey to a "show me" contract by signing him to the qualifying offer extended he would not be playing up to that contract now! Why wasn't Joe trying to move players between the CBA settlement and Christmas? Why has he not acted like he's rebuilding around Greg Monroe?!

Lawrence Frank is not only continuing to play players out of position, but he's going to war with insufficient troops! Why start Tay when everybody knows he's hurt? Why start Stuckey at PG and not SG? If he's going to play Ben Wallace 10-20 minutes a night, why not start him in the first and third quarters allowing Monroe and Jerebko to play their natural positions for at least 20 minutes a game? Why is it that most posters on this site realize that Monroe is the best PF on the team and Jerebko is the best SF, but lil' Larry is missing that? How is it that a body like Vernon Macklin wastes away on the bench when we need interior help, but Wilkins, Daye, and Bynum find their way into the game?

This team sucks and the circleing of the drain starts not with the Rip Hamiltons or Tracy McGradys or bench laughter (at a real clown), but at the very top; from the highest office of management to the locker room, this team needs an overhaul in philosophy and thinking. Our beloved owner died and left a mad GM in charge and he has corrupted everything good this franchise has stood for. I gleefully await proof that I'm wrong!

Awesome Post, DX! JJ at PF especially scares me ... Is this a sign Frank does not get it? What else can he do? CV at PF? Macklin? It is tragic for any team to be short in any position for any single season .. We have been short at one or more postions for 3 seasons running .. OK then .. Fire Dumars! The one thing that has to come out of this season is the development of Knight as our starting PG .. IF THIS HAPPENS, Frank deserves credit and support .. That and getting our team pointing in the direction of Detroit Basketball damnit!

[Grizz]

This is what Joe chose to spend $16 mil/yr on in FA this year, when players like Nene, Gasol, and Chandler were had by other teams for less money

Stuckey
11 pts
3 rebs
5 asts
32% FG

Prince
9 pts
3 rebs
2 asts
36% FG

Flip . that is pretty good damn to the point analysis ..The best I have seen in weeks and better than anyone in the Piston Writers Shill Squad has ever made their lives

[Grizz]

Its ironic that Knight and Stuckey are both on our team this year, because watching Knight last year at Kentucky reminded me so much of Stuckey - except Knight had a better jumpshot. But he made a lot of the poor decisions Stuckey routinely makes.

So now that they are on the same team, we can see exactly how they compare, and their season stats are almost indentical thus far.

(per game)

Knight
11 pts
3 rebs
3 asts
40% FG
27 min

Stuckey
11 pts
3 rebs
5 asts
32% FG
31 min

The disturbing part is not that Knight is so similar to Stuckey, whats disturbing is that Stuckey, a 5th year PG, is so similar to a 20 yr old rookie. Stuckey's stats would be acceptable for a rookie, as they are for Knight, but for a 5th year guy making $8 mil/yr those are terrible stats.

The good thing is that Knight IS only a 20 yr old rookie, and all these mistakes are expected, and will go away as he gains experience over time.

The most glaring thing from this comparison is that it couldn't be more obvious seeing these stats, that we did not need Stuckey at all, when we are getting the same exact production from Knight. Who may actually be outplaying Stuckey, considering he's doing it in 4 less mpg and shooting 8% better FG.

Great points Flip ... Joe and Frank . We dont want Stuckey back at starting PG .. get with the program or get out of town!

[Flip]

"I think if the right situation came along, whatever that is," Sloan said before pausing to ponder. "I don't know what the right situation is. We'll have to wait and see, I guess."

"My energy level has changed a great deal since I quit coaching," said Sloan, who is an avid walker. "It's changed a lot now. I've had time to work out. I feel better.

"I had a chance to relax, to do something that I haven't had the time to do in 30 years. That's rewarding. You have time to spend with the family and have Thanksgiving and things like that. I enjoyed all of that. But [returning to coaching] is a decision where, if somebody talked to me, I'd review the situation like anybody else and take it from there."

"I live my life day by day like I always have and haven't spent a lot of time worrying about a job," Sloan said. "If somebody called me, I don't know what my answer would be."

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

I say let Frank and Joe continue sabotaging this team for the rest of the year, so we get our top draft pick. Then send them both packing and make a call to Sloan, and give him the keys to the franchise.

[Grizz]

Player PER
Greg Monroe 23.8
Jason Maxiell 15.4
Jonas Jerebko 15
Rodney Stuckey 13.8
Ben Wallace 11.9
Ben Gordon 11.4
Brandon Knight 10.9
Vernon Macklin 9.8
Damien Wilkins 9.6
Charlie Villanueva 9
Tayshaun Prince 8.1
Will Bynum 6.1
Austin Daye -3.5

15 is average

[Grizz]

Player DRtg
Ben Gordon 112
Tayshaun Prince 111
Rodney Stuckey 110
Brandon Knight 109
Damien Wilkins 109
Greg Monroe 108
Jonas Jerebko 108
Will Bynum 107
Jason Maxiell 106
Vernon Macklin 105
Austin Daye 103
Ben Wallace 98
Charlie Villanueva 97


110 is poor 100 is average ...90 great

[Oracle]

who Joe was reportedly high on (among other things he was on, lol)

YET...

[Admin]

Player DRtg
Ben Gordon 112
Tayshaun Prince 111
Rodney Stuckey 110
Brandon Knight 109
Damien Wilkins 109
Greg Monroe 108
Jonas Jerebko 108
Will Bynum 107
Jason Maxiell 106
Vernon Macklin 105
Austin Daye 103
Ben Wallace 98
Charlie Villanueva 97


110 is poor 100 is average ...90 great

Very troublesome considering defense is supposed to be all Frank has been working with them on. Hilarious that Charlie V all of ppl has the best rating, lol.

[Admin]

who Joe was reportedly high on (among other things he was on, lol)

YET...

LOL

[deusXango]

I know that Frank is supposedly preaching defense to the team but what is his forte? Defensive genius? Waiting on the proof. Offensive guru? We know not! Does he mold guards like LB? He seems to be ignoring these. Does he teach big men the fine art of playing the paint? Is he another hand out in the pay line, looking to steal money for a job undone? Seems more like it day-by-day.
What made Frank decide on his starting lineup opening night? Why was it such a secret? How did he miss the fact that Tay's mobility was next to nil? What made him think that with two days practice Stuckey was up to par enough to run the team? What had Gordon shown to indicate he deserved to start at SG? Why is he hiding Macklin? If he can't play cut him! If he can, we need him!!

Larry gives off that bipolar straight ahead stare and babbles on about no closed door meetings, everything is out in the open, but he has secrets! There is so much that needs addressing by the head coach that's double-talked around is a damn shame. What are your goals for this team Larry? What does this team need, or are you set? Lawrence Frank (two first names) is a strange man.

[Admin]

Our beloved owner died and left a mad GM in charge and he has corrupted everything good this franchise has stood for.

This couldn't be more accurate. Its really like Joe became the owner of the team after Mr D. Whatever he says goes, and no one can tell him no.

[Oracle]

This team sucks and the circleing of the drain starts not with the Rip Hamiltons or Tracy McGradys or bench laughter (at a real clown), but at the very top; from the highest office of management to the locker room, this team needs an overhaul in philosophy and thinking. Our beloved owner died and left a mad GM in charge and he has corrupted everything good this franchise has stood for. I gleefully await proof that I'm wrong!

I totally agree that the stench wasn't coming from the players revolting, that was just a symptom of Joe's total lack of leadership. The fish stinks from the head... Joe and Karen, and in that order.

Joe isn't mad, it's just that he, rightfully, got credit for more than he really accomplished.

Let's see, Grant Hill was leaving, and did him a service by doing a sign and trade, which allowed Joe to save some face. Grant could have just left, but both he and Doc Rivers did the right thing.

Trading Stackhouse, as others have pointed out, was mostly a salary move and a prayer. MJ knew RIP had a lot of problems, and didn't have the offensive structure to maximize his talent, but Carlisle did, and it worked.

Getting Chauncey was ALL Joe, and it was arguably one of the best moves he made, so I give him FULL credit here.

Getting Larry Brown to coach the Pistons was 100% Mr D.! He couldn't stand Carlisle, and made Joe jump when LB became available.

Getting Sheed was 99% Larry Brown and 1% Joe, and I'm being generous here.

Then Joe gets a massive stroke of luck as the Alternatorz had morphed into a KILLER unit that could give first units a run for their money. oddly, after winning it all, Joe NEVER found a way to rebuild a decent 2nd unit, which led to the failure to win additional championships.

So while I always say the man at the top should get the credit, no matter how it happens. At some point you need to analyze the situation, and that generally occurs when stuff goes to hell in a hand basket(like now).

I love Joe, but my simple analysis shows him wanting, and the lack of moves to date has me greatly concerned.

Joe has this season to change my mind, but after that, I'm joining the fire Joe bandwagon if nothing happens.

[Sissy1946]

[Only admins are allowed to see this link] Those were the Days! Seems like Forever, Any memory Joe of what it took to build a team like that?

Wise: thinking about offering this to Rett for a knock down drag out price to go with all his 2004 memobillia about the 2004 Pistons. All Right Rett what am I offered for this one of a kind priceless memory?

[Flip]

I just figured out how to add new sections at the top. The first one I added is a Pistons twitter section filled with live auto-updating twitter feeds from all the Pistons writers/insiders, national media guys, and Pistons players.

Its organized - local media in the left column, national in the middle, and players on the right.

I can add as many as I want, so if anyone can think of any others I should add, let me know, and I'll just keep adding them as I go.

I'm going to do the whole roster of players once I find them all.

Just click "Piston Tweets" in the upper left to access it.

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