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More On #18 - His Strengths

Post  WTF on Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:59 pm

At 20 points per-40 minutes, Ellenson ranked among the most prolific freshmen in college basketball this season offensively. Able to put the ball in the basket from virtually anywhere on the floor, his instincts and natural scoring touch are extremely impressive for someone his age.

Ellenson shows potential as a perimeter shooter, knocking down 30 3-pointers in 33 games this season, but is not quite there yet in terms of consistency, hitting just 29% of his attempts. Looking at his shooting mechanics, and the fact that he knocked down 75% of his free throw attempts, it's not difficult to envision him becoming an effective floor spacing big man in time, as his streakiness as a shooter seemed to have more to do with shot-selection than any concerns about his natural ability. He was very effective in the mid-range area, hitting 40% of his attempts on the season there (SST), sometimes pulling up off the dribble impressively, but had a tendency to short-arm many of his 3-point attempts, which often came with a hand in his face.

What separates Ellenson from most big men is the skill-level he demonstrates with the ball in his hands. He's extremely impressive with his ability to put the ball on the floor, not just when grabbing a defensive rebound and going coast to coast, but also in the half-court, using shot-fakes, advanced ball-handling moves and body control to create his own shot and get to the rim.

Ellenson is a real mismatch at his size, something that can probably be utilized even more effectively with NBA spacing, particularly in smaller lineups with multiple shooting options surrounding him. He's the rare big man who can be utilized effectively as the ball-handler in both pick and roll or isolation situations, as he can drive left and right and mix in some impressive change of speed and direction moves. He knows how to slow down and speed up instinctively with his long strides to beat defenders and make his way to the rim, and utilizes outstanding footwork to spin around opponents and finish with soft touch.

Ellenson's strong frame helps him finish through contact, even if he's not incredibly explosive off two feet, and he got to the free throw line an impressive seven times per-40 minutes, which helped compensate for his relatively pedestrian 49.5% 2P%. He's also a very good rebounder, averaging a strong 11.8 per-40. His sturdy frame, excellent hands and terrific timing and anticipation skills all play a role in his prowess as a glass-cleaner, which has been the case virtually everywhere he's been thus far statistically, showing the emphasis he places on this part of his game.

While far more comfortable operating with his face to the basket, Ellenson also shows potential in post-up situations as well, something we may not have seen the best of operating alongside another 6'11 interior player in Luke Fischer. He has the requisite strength needed to establish solid post position, as well as the skill-level needed to create his own shot in the low post and finish with either hand or utilizing turnaround jumpers. He's not what you'd call a high flyer, though, and his struggles finishing around the basket contributed to his inefficiency as a scorer.

While obviously extremely talented, Ellenson is still working on figuring out his limitations and how to operate efficiently offensively on a consistent basis. His 54% TS% leaves something to be desired for a player his size, as he tends to force the issue at times off the dribble and with his shot-selection.

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Last edited by WTF on Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Draft Express

Post  WTF on Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:56 pm

Henry Ellenson NBA Draft Scouting Report and Video Breakdown
March 17, 2016
Scouting Report by Jonathan Givony. Video Analysis by Mike Schmitz

Henry Ellenson had a productive first and lone season of college basketball from an individual standpoint, being named Big East Rookie of the Year, as well as First Team All-Conference.

His team struggled through a fairly disappointing year, though, finishing 8-10 in Big East play, and ending their season in the quarterfinals of the conference tournament after not being invited to the NIT.

Standing 6'10 (possibly a hair taller), with a 7'2 wingspan, a 9'1 standing reach and a mature 240 pound frame, Ellenson has prototypical height, length, reach and strength for a NBA power forward, and is big and strong enough to slide over to the center position in smaller lineups as well. He's also extremely nimble and mobile, showing impressive fluidity and dexterity for a player his size, even if he isn't incredibly quick or explosive in a traditional sense. Staying lean will be important to maintain and possibly improve his athleticism in the long term, as he was much heavier earlier in his career and has a frame that could possibly get out of shape quickly.
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HENRY ELLENSON

Post  WTF on Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:49 pm

Gentlemen what's your take on this selection. I took a quick look at his numbers 17 points and 9.7 rebounds 1.5 blocks. Andre does need a backup not the vet I was hoping for.
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Ellison???

Post  Oracle on Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:40 pm

I like this pick!

Young and big at 6'11, 7'2 wing span.

Not bad at 18... but,

The skinny: First, he needs to become more consistent with his jump shot. The mechanics are there for it to become a major weapon, but it's not there production-wise yet. The second part is going to be defense, where his lack of lateral agility is going to be a bit of a question mark to whoever drafts him. Can he defend in the screen and roll? That's a tough question.
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SVG takes it in the ...

Post  Oracle on Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:35 pm

Arse again, he wanted Baldwin too!
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There goes Valentine...

Post  Oracle on Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:10 pm

Damn Bulls snatch and grab from our local stock!!!
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SVG never had a chance...

Post  Oracle on Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:41 pm

Thon Maker goes to the Bucks, so we'll see him up close and personal!
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Thank You Sir Oracle

Post  WTF on Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:35 pm

Oracle wrote:
Wise wrote:I think we match up well against a lot of teams just not in experience and maturity. I do believe though that we gave the Cavs the most problems in the playoffs even in being swept. Add the right 2 players either via trade or free agency we can be right there, but if New York gets Howard or Gasol we might have taken 2 steps back already. Then the separation from us and the Cavs will be all the other teams in between......

You correctly point out that how well we may match up with the Cavs won't mean a thing if we can't beat the teams in between!

Like the way we couldn't beat the Wizards and it almost cost us a playoff berth except the Wiz couldn't beat anybody else when it counted.

Your experience and maturity comment was right on as well!

My observation was based on the obvious fact that we matched up being an 8th seed so there was 6 teams separating us and the Cavs. New York a team that wasn't better than us last season just added Rose and now looking to added either Howard or Gasol could easily push us out of the playoffs next season.

It's is extremely important that SVG take big reason I think this summer oppose to next summer to stay ahead of teams like New York and move ahead of teams like Miami and Toronto. Failure to make the playoffs next season after winning 44 games this past season would put us make into rebuild mode for certain. I would hope that KCP and our 18th pick could have been uses to up grade at least one of the 5 starting positions. I would have love to have a shot at getting Teagues.





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Brilliant Observation...

Post  Oracle on Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:07 pm

Wise wrote:I think we match up well against a lot of teams just not in experience and maturity. I do believe though that we gave the Cavs the most problems in the playoffs even in being swept. Add the right 2 players either via trade or free agency we can be right there, but if New York gets Howard or Gasol we might have taken 2 steps back already. Then the separation from us and the Cavs will be all the other teams in between......

You correctly point out that how well we may match up with the Cavs won't mean a thing if we can't beat the teams in between!

Like the way we couldn't beat the Wizards and it almost cost us a playoff berth except the Wiz couldn't beat anybody else when it counted.

Your experience and maturity comment was right on as well!
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Which position will the Pistons fill tonight?

Post  cool breeze on Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:47 pm

As it gets down to the wire I still have no idea which way SVG will go. Looks like it will depend on how far some of the players fall or maybe a trade is being worked out right now. This draft is not as exciting as the recent past. The draft appears weak and we don't get to pick until number 18. Still this is more exciting than the draft two years ago when Joe Dumars gave away our 1st round pick. We now have a really top notch management team with some good basketball minds all working hard together. I like Valentine. However, I did see Beasley in action and he does have some real talent. Unless you are working in the business, there is limited information on the foreign players available to make any judgment.

As this draft process unfolds, things might get exciting for the Pistons. I hope so.

Meanwhile I enjoyed the article yesterday regarding how SVG has deployed his coaches this summer. I love the fact that the players are not working out on their own without direction. Let's hope all the hard work by the players this summer will pay off. And I am happy that Drummond is not playing for the Olympic team. He has a lot of work to do if he wants to become a really good player. Last summer he came back a better player in my opinion. Maybe this summer he is concentrating on free throws and defense. Can't wait until training camp starts.

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We're All Pitching Valid Points

Post  WTF on Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:21 pm

Oracle wrote:Although I do stand by the statement you outlined in blue.

Many things are possible, knocking off the Cavs next season, isn't likely one of them, even before they won the way they won.

I said that in an earlier post as my reasoning to swing for the fences with Maker. Any pick in this weak draft wasn't likely to play, and a medium probability of sticking around. In addition, we weren't going to be in the ECF, so why not spend the pick on a potential high upside risk?

I have admitted that it's easy for us fans to talk this way, much harder for those getting paid to do the right thing to play fast and loose with any asset when we're on the fence... fall one way and we're toast, the other and we get better.

Having said that, the win by Cleveland is a double edged sword! It also showed the rest of the east the level they'll need to reach to beat the champs! That knowledge can fuel fires in great competitors who won't run from the challenge, but embrace it and get better. I like to think that we've got a core that won't back down from a challenge.

SVG has a tough job, mine is easier, I say take a risk Very Happy
lemonpen wrote:
Oracle wrote:I got what Don said mixed up with what you said, your remarks are fair.

In full disclosure, I'm not against Valentine, but I would like to see us take a big risk since it can't really hurt us.

BTW, as far as experienced guards, the 3 on my radar right now are Burke, Jennings and Augustin, in that order.

I feel that Burke fits in the proper age group sweet spot for this team best, then come Jennings whose upside is bigger than Augustin, but has some questions surrounding if he'll ever regain his form.

I agree with Wise, just say no to Horford. His price tag is too high since we likely won't be in the ECF next season.

Having said that, we match up with Cleveland better than anybody else in the east, and if Drummond can make FT's to stay on the floor, and we get a decent bench, many things are possible.

I think to no fault of our own we've lost ground to the Cavs over the last month.  Having accomplished what they have, in the fashion they did it surely has resulted in increased confidence, unity, and will.  

Any move or non move is a risk, Taking a risk in the draft this season isn't a huge one, Maker is intriguing so it wouldn't hurt IMO and Valentine won't be a difference maker considering the team greatest need is veteran leadership. SVG should swing for the fences and gamble hard for this team to become contenders if not this season than the following season.

SVG could play it safe and do nothing, cross his fingers and wait for every current player on this roster to magically become better over time. This is IMO the most riskiest thing to do of anything he may or may not do.

I think we match up well against a lot of teams just not in experience and maturity. I do believe though that we gave the Cavs the most problems in the playoffs even in being swept. Add the right 2 players either via trade or free agency we can be right there, but if New York gets Howard or Gasol we might have taken 2 steps back already. Then the separation from us and the Cavs will be all the other teams in between......
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Fully agree!!!

Post  Oracle on Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:53 pm

Although I do stand by the statement you outlined in blue.

Many things are possible, knocking off the Cavs next season, isn't likely one of them, even before they won the way they won.

I said that in an earlier post as my reasoning to swing for the fences with Maker. Any pick in this weak draft wasn't likely to play, and a medium probability of sticking around. In addition, we weren't going to be in the ECF, so why not spend the pick on a potential high upside risk?

I have admitted that it's easy for us fans to talk this way, much harder for those getting paid to do the right thing to play fast and loose with any asset when we're on the fence... fall one way and we're toast, the other and we get better.

Having said that, the win by Cleveland is a double edged sword! It also showed the rest of the east the level they'll need to reach to beat the champs! That knowledge can fuel fires in great competitors who won't run from the challenge, but embrace it and get better. I like to think that we've got a core that won't back down from a challenge.

SVG has a tough job, mine is easier, I say take a risk Very Happy
lemonpen wrote:
Oracle wrote:I got what Don said mixed up with what you said, your remarks are fair.

In full disclosure, I'm not against Valentine, but I would like to see us take a big risk since it can't really hurt us.

BTW, as far as experienced guards, the 3 on my radar right now are Burke, Jennings and Augustin, in that order.

I feel that Burke fits in the proper age group sweet spot for this team best, then come Jennings whose upside is bigger than Augustin, but has some questions surrounding if he'll ever regain his form.

I agree with Wise, just say no to Horford. His price tag is too high since we likely won't be in the ECF next season.

Having said that, we match up with Cleveland better than anybody else in the east, and if Drummond can make FT's to stay on the floor, and we get a decent bench, many things are possible.

I think to no fault of our own we've lost ground to the Cavs over the last month.  Having accomplished what they have, in the fashion they did it surely has resulted in increased confidence, unity, and will.  
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1 step forward, 2 steps back

Post  lemonpen on Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:22 pm

Oracle wrote:I got what Don said mixed up with what you said, your remarks are fair.

In full disclosure, I'm not against Valentine, but I would like to see us take a big risk since it can't really hurt us.

BTW, as far as experienced guards, the 3 on my radar right now are Burke, Jennings and Augustin, in that order.

I feel that Burke fits in the proper age group sweet spot for this team best, then come Jennings whose upside is bigger than Augustin, but has some questions surrounding if he'll ever regain his form.

I agree with Wise, just say no to Horford. His price tag is too high since we likely won't be in the ECF next season.

Having said that, we match up with Cleveland better than anybody else in the east, and if Drummond can make FT's to stay on the floor, and we get a decent bench, many things are possible.

I think to no fault of our own we've lost ground to the Cavs over the last month. Having accomplished what they have, in the fashion they did it surely has resulted in increased confidence, unity, and will.
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Tonight is the night....

Post  Oracle on Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:18 pm

We'll finally see the light?
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Let The Off Season Follies Begin

Post  WTF on Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:11 am

It looks to me that a few teams are hitting the reset button (Chicago, Indiana, New York and Pacers). I'm sure a hand full more will soon follow and I can only hope that SVG will be able to somehow take advantage of it.

With Hill heading to Utah that opens the door even wider for us to somehow bring Burke back home to familiar surroundings. I could like Noah as a potential back up to Andre far more than have Al Horford. If we could just add Noah and Burke to the current roster I could see that as another step further.

I think there will be a ton of movement out there and players being moved for various reasons so SVG needs to keep his eyes wide open, as well as his mind and play out of the possibilities and scenarios of upgrading the roster and not be afraid of taking a big risk or a potential large cap hit. I can see a big move coming I just hope its the right move.
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Rose trade

Post  Sparma on Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:51 pm

Oracle, I do see a mini-rebuild, or reset at least, in Chicago. Smart move for them. They're putting all their eggs in the Butler basket, resolving the issue of fit with Rose. In Lopez, they get an incoming C with Noah and Gasol expected to leave. Calderon's a placeholder. Grant's promising.

Phil's making a big gamble I think, eying two possible outcomes. On the one hand, he's placating Carmelo and maybe owner Dolan too. I hear there's a good chance Noah goes to NY, or maybe Gasol or Howard. If all goes well they could be a solid playoff team this year. On the other hand, if things don't go well, they get rid of Rose and his massive salary next year. If the year's a bust, I bet Carmelo wants to move, maybe by the trade deadline, giving up his trade veto. A bad year would bring a good 1st rounder (something they don't have this year, no fault of Phil's). They'd reset the rebuild in earnest with Porzingis going into his third year, a high pick, lots of cap space, the extra second rounder they pick up from Chicago for next year, and the possible return they'd get for Carmelo.

I see Phil hedging his bets with a highly risky move which could easily go south. Could well be the last big move he gets to make, so it will be interesting to see how it unfolds in the next year or so.
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Utah gets a good point guard and good fit for their team - Meanwhile it seems that the Piston management will have trouble signing one of the left overs

Post  cool breeze on Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:13 pm

Sorry but I am not excited about Matt Dellavedova. To me he had a good string of playoff games last season and failed to play anywhere near that level this season. Going down this path is crazy in my opinion. Detroit somehow needs to get a player who can step in and become a starter if necessary. To spend a lot of money on Matt on a multi year contract might really hurt the organization for years to come. I would have gone with Spencer Dinwiddie on the hope that he could lift his game. I say the potential of Dinwiddie in the future far surpasses the potential of Dellavedova. Matt played well a year ago because he was playing with Labron James. What is going to happen if Reggie Jackson burns out this season or sustains a season ending injury? If Detroit signs Dellavedova then they better use their number one pick on another point guard. Of course there still is the point forward idea where we would not use a point guard at all with the 2nd unit.

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I interrupt this Draft Discussion with news, at least to me!

Post  Oracle on Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:05 pm

Chicago Bulls trade Derrick Rose to the New York Knicks

WTF???

Does this mean that the Bulls are in mini rebuild mode?


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2016/06/22/chicago-bulls-trade-derrick-rose-new-york-knicks/86254690/ wrote:Derrick Rose's tenure in Chicago is officially over.

Rose has been traded from the Chicago Bulls to theNew York Knicks, according to two people familiar with the deal.

The person spoke to USA TODAY Sports on condition of anonymity because the deal has not been made public.

Along with Rose, the Knicks will get Justin Holiday and a 2017 second round draft pick. The Knicks are sending Robin Lopez, Jose Calderon and Jerian Grant to the Bulls.

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Draft experts have done a poor job evaluating players for this draft

Post  cool breeze on Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:16 pm

I look at Chris Dunn listed so high on all draft boards and have a difficult time with it. I do not believe that Dunn has a high basketball IQ. Can he play defense? Maybe he will make it but for sure he is not a sure thing. And then there is J. Brown who played for California this past season. I watched him early on last fall and thought he was great. Then opposing coaches realized that Brown was a horrible defender and a poor decision maker. It all turned around when opposing coaches created their game plan to attach Brown. After that happened, Brown spent a lot of time on the bench with 3 fouls early in the first half of games. So if Brown struggled playing defense in college, how in hell can they keep him on the court in the NBA? And his outside shooting is suspect. I would not get excited about either Dunn or Brown.

Meanwhile draft experts have Kaleb Tarczewski as the 99th best college player in the draft. He is a 4 year starter and powerful 7 footer who is in great physical condition and can run the court fast. His coach always admired his unselfishness and his ability to direct the defense from his position as center. Kaleb is also a extremely high IQ guy who is an honor student. He has worked out with 3 or 4 teams so far and i am sure some smart GM will give him a shot to make a team. If so, Tarczewski will be difficult to keep out of a 2nd unit rotation because of his size, mental ability and work ethic. Here is a guy with with a lot of experience, has no mental condition and will show up every night ready to play ball unlike perhaps 50% of the players listed on most draft boards. There are many players like Kaleb out there waiting in the wings and are light years ahead of players like Maker. By the way, who in hell would want to coach Maker on the NBA level? He might be a nightmare type player for a big time college coach to fit in their system because of his lack of ability to understand the team first concept.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:49 pm

Oracle wrote:I got what Don said mixed up with what you said, your remarks are fair.

In full disclosure, I'm not against Valentine, but I would like to see us take a big risk since it can't really hurt us.

BTW, as far as experienced guards, the 3 on my radar right now are Burke, Jennings and Augustin, in that order.

I feel that Burke fits in the proper age group sweet spot for this team best, then come Jennings whose upside is bigger than Augustin, but has some questions surrounding if he'll ever regain his form.

I agree with Wise, just say no to Horford. His price tag is too high since we likely won't be in the ECF next season.

Having said that, we match up with Cleveland better than anybody else in the east, and if Drummond can make FT's to stay on the floor, and we get a decent bench, many things are possible.

Interesting post Oracle. I get what you are saying relating to going with the high risk type player being that my opinion is that this entire draft is extremely weak. But still this hype relating to Maker is down right insane. If facts don't matter than get the cheap thrill and draft Maker. Otherwise, being that our Piston players have a 50/50 chance of making the playoffs based on their play last season perhaps we should hope that SVG and his group of experts do have several players they believe will make an impact next season. We need better players and the current players need to get a lot better. The other teams ahead of the Pistons in the standings are a lot better than Detroit based on how each team performed against each other during the regular season. And don't forget Washington. Yes there is no way in hell that our Piston players could beat Washington in a 7 game series if John Wall plays. So why should anyone expect that the current group of Piston players will even make the playoffs next year unless more talent is added? We are not in a position to take high risks. This management team must make great decisions and be lucky or most likely our Pistons will be on the outside in the lottery again.

It will be a big mistake not to somehow snag a really good vet point guard who is capable of starting. I have my doubts about Reggie Jackson relating to him making it healthy through an entire season considering the way he plays the game. For the life of me I can't understand how anyone in their right mind would consider Brandon Jennings as the new point guard. This guy cannot play defense and he got progressively worse on the offensive end at Detroit and in Orlando. I like Augustine. he is a better option than Jennings but then again he is also a liability on defense and that is why Van Gundy shipped him out. Remember the games against Indiana where George Hill would post down in the paint about 15 times a game against Augustine? And Burke is also a liability on defense because of his size but I would like to see the Pistons pick him up as the 3rd point guard who might push the other players for playing time and perhaps win. could be he gets a fresh start in Detroit and plays like he did at Michigan. Who knows but I believe that SVG has a better plan and either decides to scrap the idea of securing a really good vet point guard through a trade or goes to the point forward idea where we play without a point guard. That in my opinion might be the best option if Stanley Johnson can remember any of his point guard skills. And there is Harris who is a good ball handler and a high IQ basketball player who could function like Labron does in the Cleveland offense. If only Stanley Johnson could do the job as point forward with the 2nd unit I believe the Pistons might be hard to beat. Johnson as an advantage because he is quick enough to guard point guards and did it some this past season. I always get a big surprised when people say that Johnson was not a good defender last season. He has a tendency to help maybe too much but there is no question that he has the ability to stay in front of his assigned man. Nobody likes playing offense against his powerful body. I am wondering if SVG will play him some at point forward to see what happens but in the Summer league, it is extremely difficult to be successful playing point guard as teams do not play unselfishly. Each player has something to prove and wants to make a team. If SVG goes for a vet point guard, I hope he strikes gold and we fans can debate who should start.

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Apologies DX

Post  Oracle on Wed Jun 22, 2016 2:58 pm

I got what Don said mixed up with what you said, your remarks are fair.

In full disclosure, I'm not against Valentine, but I would like to see us take a big risk since it can't really hurt us.

BTW, as far as experienced guards, the 3 on my radar right now are Burke, Jennings and Augustin, in that order.

I feel that Burke fits in the proper age group sweet spot for this team best, then come Jennings whose upside is bigger than Augustin, but has some questions surrounding if he'll ever regain his form.

I agree with Wise, just say no to Horford. His price tag is too high since we likely won't be in the ECF next season.

Having said that, we match up with Cleveland better than anybody else in the east, and if Drummond can make FT's to stay on the floor, and we get a decent bench, many things are possible.
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Al Horford ?????

Post  WTF on Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:57 pm

Would have looked better along side Moose oppose to Andre. It could work with Andre but I think it depends on how much Andre improves his game overall.

I have 2 main concerns with Horford 1. His health and 2. Paying him max money because of my first concern. I still have other concerns or reasons to pause on this move because I like the combination of Morris and Harris last season and right now that was IMO the best thing the Pistons had going last season. The team could improve at every position but I think SF and PF should be our least concern.

PG IMO is problem 1 and SG is problem 2, I can live with problem 3 if everything else around Andre is clicking. Reggie simply don't cut it as a starter or team leader and this is not to say that he is of no value to the team just not as a starter. I have similar issues with KCP in that he is simply not a fit in what SVG is doing (He could be the piece that's moved to make a Horford signing possible. KCP needs to be moved for his own good he will always struggle to find his place on this team trying to fit a system and style of play he's not built for.

The good thing about this talk of Horford is that unlike Joe, SVG stuck on standing pat.
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Oracle

Post  deusXango on Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:48 am

Oracle, how are you good buddy? It's been awhile but, I hope all is well with you and yours. Yeah, my minds made up about Valentine, because he's the only quality player (that was projected to go top 10 at one time) that's being talked about falling, possibly, to #18. He possesses all the skills and intangibles' to help transform last years trifling bench into a force to be reckoned with. There were games I feel we could have won last year if only the team had stronger bench support; I feel that a player of Valentine's quality and credentials and experience can make a difference within the next few years. Now as far as me stating Thon Maker was dumb as nails and we've been snowed by youtube highlights, I honestly don't remember that. The comparison I drew wasn't between Maker and Valentine....but here's the quote from my post;

Third, the dice have been rolled on Stanley Johnson as the player we're waiting on to develop into the next great Piston, how'd Thon Maker become so popular that we'd be willing to wait on his development instead of acquiring a player who can become a major contributor in the rotation starting this season? Inch for inch, pound for pound, I'm all for Stanley Johnson! Every PF that makes sense to draft ahead of Denzel Valentine will certainly be off the board.

That's not hate but, opinion. When we talk about size, I'm reminded of an old saying, "It's not the size of the dog in a fight but, the size of the fight in a dog." That first came to mind when our rookie (Stanley Johnson) was kicking on King James ass during Cleveland's sweep of the Pistons all while talking sh!t. Some acted as if they were ashamed of Johnson's cockiness and felt he should shut up but, that's a part of what the Championship Pistons have always been about; skill, cockiness and fight!!!
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deusXango

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I Could Rah Rah Burke All Day

Post  WTF on Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:21 am

Oracle wrote:I actually fully agree with you about Burke!

I'd love to have him backing up Reggie, I think he brings a lot to the table as a backup.

The good news is that he could likely be had for cheap as Utah is moving in a different direction.

https://purpleandblues.com/2016/06/14/utah-jazz-time-trey-burke-move/ wrote:Trey Burke was once an integral part of a young Utah Jazz team with aspirations of becoming a true contender. Two years later, he is on the verge of being traded because he is no longer contributing.

I'll jump for joy if we could obtain Burke via trade because it would be a steal depending on what we give up to get him. I honestly just believe that it's not so much Burke than it being the system and player around him that he hasn't flourish. I never felt Utah was the spot for him to begin with and can say the only thing that I don't like about him is his shooting percentage from 3 point range. Beyond that his career averages don't say he's stuck there or an indication he's a scrub it still a **** load of potential there.

But if SVG can acquire the shooters he wants for his system then Burke would be more likely than Reggie to get the ball to those shooters, hell any decent PG would be able to because Reggie plays like a SG, shoots like SG dose. I know many like Reggie but I will always have a problem with PG's leading the team in attempts and points.

Burke's career pt average is about 12.2 a game, if he could push his assist numbers from 4.6 to 8 or 9 and run the team offense how could we not want him on this team. I think all the things we saw at Michigan are still possible for him as a pro he doesn't get 21 minutes a night because he can't play and maybe it Utah just not the fit for him. This kid has shown signs at time of being that version of himself at Michigan but I think the early rookie injury, coaching, the organization and other things have factor into his growth as a player. If Sloan was still coaching in Utah, Burke might be playing like Stockton right now lol


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WTF

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DX/Don

Post  Oracle on Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:40 am

Ok, everything they say about Valentine is true, except that he has medical issues that could make him useless is a lie... I get it, you both have made up your minds and you're locked and loaded.

Don says this is the weakest draft in ages, but somehow the fact that we pick at 18, we're going to get this world beater.. oh, you CAN have it both ways, no problem.

DX, you know exactly how long it'll take for this kid to make it, and he's dumb as nails... Wow, instead of believing we've been snowed by youtube highlights, maybe you and Don need to check out interviews with this kid before you falsely accuse him of all of these nasty things. He talks about his weaknesses, what he needs to work on, discusses his weight and how he will work on it, the kid oozes basketball IQ!

This kid is self reflective and not the dummy you guys want him to be, and I'm not sure why you guys would go this far to put down a kid you expect to fall of his own weight.

I may not like a player for this team, but I'd NEVER say things like that about any of these kids trying to make their way in this world, that's some nasty business...

So maybe I can interrupt your hate sessions and sprinkle a little truth... from Maker himself

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/thon-maker-nba-draft-mixtape-australia-south-sudan-ontario-pacers-bucks/10zvz5luexx8z12xvx17f1dz36 wrote:“People gotta stop with the mixtape stuff,” Maker said. “That’s not me. I bet you those people who put out those mixtapes have never sat through a whole game of mine and watched it.

And so you don’t see my defensive rotation, or the way I communicate with my teammates, the way I pass the ball. 

They probably go the bad passes, the one-hand passes, but not the fundamental two-hand, jump-stop passes or the skip passes. Some people use that to identify me, the mixtapes.”
I'll just stop there, my point is made!
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