What's wrong?

[Oracle]

It's not lack of talent, and they're playing great defense here in the 4th, the problem is amazingly SIMPLE!!!

1. They can't keep up the scoring with teams because our shooters just plain SUCK!
2. If it's close, our horrid FT shooting will doom us!

That's it folks, it's all shooting related!

Larry Brown solved that problem by devising a system that worked hard as hell for 24 seconds to find the best possible shot, and defended like demons to get and hold a lead!

So SVG was right, they absolutely HAVE to be a great defensive team, because they can't shoot their way out of a paper bag!

As I type, with 2 minutes to play, they've held the Suns to 83 effing points!!!

Maybe Jodie Meeks won't be a savior, but if we can get players that can hit timely shots, it's going to help this team win!!!

Bowers, get your dumb ass to work on some trades, shooting is what we need!!!

Major RALLY taking place now Suns up by 2 85-83!!!

[Oracle]

Seb, I know there's no way on this earth that you would EVER believe that Jodie Meeks could save us, hell, he can't even save his own ass,

DX, Great find!!!

I was wondering how we get a nugget like Covington dropped on us and we act like he doesn't exist!

Yeah, if they blew it up, that's a good question... better or worse!!!

BTW, watching the game and the officiating is just horrid! They're after Jennings, and he needs to just back off because you can't win against the whistle blowers!!!

[deusXango]

"Although Robert Covington may appear to be just another name on the always changing Philadelphia 76ers roster, the 6-foot-9 forward will prove to be a welcomed addition.

As the No. 1 overall pick in the 2014 NBA Development League Draft, the writing was on the wall early that Covington would be called up to the NBA sooner rather than later. Only a few weeks into the 2014-15 season, the 76ers made Covington the fifth Gatorade call-up of the season.

As a fixture in the NBA’s Development League for most of the 2013-14 season, Covington took every advantage of the opportunity he was given. In 42 games for the Rio Grande Valley Vipers, which included 41 starts, Covington worked to develop every aspect of his game. As a result, he would finish the season averaging 23 points, nine rebounds, two assists, 2.4 steals and 1.4 blocks per game. He would also shoot 37 percent from three-point range. These statistics led Covington to being named the 2014 NBA D-League Rookie of the Year, NBA D-League First-Team and Most Valuable Player of the NBA D-League All-Star Game.

So although he appears to be just another player in for a glorified NBA tryout with Philadelphia, Covington will prove to be a valuable addition for the 76ers. With minutes at his disposal, Covington will be able to take advantage of this opportunity, just like he took advantage of his D-League opportunity last season."-Does It Really Matter?

GM SVG, "Big Brain" Bower, when are you guys going to reach waay around and pop your heads out of your asses? How could you ignore this guys efforts to get better and compete? What were you thinking when you drafted him for the Drive....get him for Philly? Is it you guys learned opinion that we're set at SF? Do we have a SF candidate with his combination of youth, size, skill, athleticism, and hunger?

Murph, if they blew this team up, how would they rebuild it; better or worse?

Speaking of SF's, check out T.J. Warren tonight, I know you all have seen Gerald Green and not been impressed.

[Fennis Dembo]

I found this great nickname in the article about the draft choices of the Grand Rapids D League team.
Kelsey Barlow - His nickname at Purdue was "God Dammit Barlow" befitting his potential and frustrating play.

This got my  goofy brain working on fiitting nicknames for the players on the current Pistons roster. I know you guys have a few of your own. I know Sebastian has a several for Meeks.

Josh "No Freakin' Three Pointers" Smith
Greg "WTF" Jennings
Jody "Oh, My Aching Back" Meeks
Greg "Get Back on Effin' Defense" Monroe
Andre "Dazed and Confused "  Drummond
Luigi "No Green Card For You" Datome
Kyle "Your Not At Duke Anymore" Singler
Spencer "DNP-CD" Dinwiddie
Tony "What the Hell Happened To Me" Mitchell
Stan "Can't Anybody Play This Game" Van Gundy

[Sebastian]

According to GM Stan: OUR Savior, F@ckin' Jodie Meeks will not effectively return, until maybe in January (2015).

http://pistonpowered.com/2014/11/19/dont-expect-jodie-meeks-help-2015/

If Jodie Meeks is your savior, you seriously have to wonder if your ass is worth saving

SVG is in serious need of a mirror! Three of his signings can't play for one reason or another!

Grey's heart couldn't take it, Martin blew out a wheel, and Meeks back went out giving his new money a BJ!

He's a rookie GM and a rusty coach, and even though Wise makes some good points, the players are playing WITHIN SVG's framework and playing WITH SVG's scrub players.

BTW, he says he needs guys to penetrate and break down defenses, so he plays Jennings & Augustin together. As Langlois points out, Knight and others in the east are capable of guarding all but the biggest SG's(Joe Johnson being the exception), but our guards are not only shorter than all of them, but slightly built(rut rho, Bledsoe is in town)!

So if that's the case, why let the two best penetrators we had, Bynum & Stuckey, leave? Lastly, there is a rumor that Dinwiddie may get some burn tonight!

Yo, Oracle, just making sure ... you know that I don't give a damn about F@ckin' Jodie Meeks, right?

[Oracle]

According to GM Stan: OUR Savior, F@ckin' Jodie Meeks will not effectively return, until maybe in January (2015).

http://pistonpowered.com/2014/11/19/dont-expect-jodie-meeks-help-2015/

If Jodie Meeks is your savior, you seriously have to wonder if your ass is worth saving

SVG is in serious need of a mirror! Three of his signings can't play for one reason or another!

Grey's heart couldn't take it, Martin blew out a wheel, and Meeks back went out giving his new money a BJ!

He's a rookie GM and a rusty coach, and even though Wise makes some good points, the players are playing WITHIN SVG's framework and playing WITH SVG's scrub players.

BTW, he says he needs guys to penetrate and break down defenses, so he plays Jennings & Augustin together. As Langlois points out, Knight and others in the east are capable of guarding all but the biggest SG's(Joe Johnson being the exception), but our guards are not only shorter than all of them, but slightly built(rut rho, Bledsoe is in town)!

So if that's the case, why let the two best penetrators we had, Bynum & Stuckey, leave? Lastly, there is a rumor that Dinwiddie may get some burn tonight!

[Sebastian]

According to GM Stan: OUR Savior, F@ckin' Jodie Meeks will not effectively return, until maybe in January (2015).

http://pistonpowered.com/2014/11/19/dont-expect-jodie-meeks-help-2015/

[WTF]

Okay I'm going back to my usual blasting of it's the players and not the coaching or organization but the players.

Poor decision aside we spend a lot of time scratching our heads because we can look at these players and see the potential and obvious talent there and can't understand why it doesn't translate into winning.

I'm almost at the conclusion that this team really has no interest in winning just simply gaining a pay check which they've been all but guaranteed before the ink even dried on there contracts. This team has no will or motivation beyond cashing a check and it's so freaking obvious it makes my stomach turn and my ass itch. Here's my take on some of our players.

Moose: Has been an under-achiever since H.S. which is why he remains the inconsistent player he is. There is no way he should not be a consistent double-double guy even when he's not trying but he's worse than the start of last season and is likely playing not to get injured so that he's certain to secure his next contract elsewhere. If he wanted to be here and committed he would have signed a contract over the summer.

Andre: If I had to bash a player for being dumb and having a low basketball it's this kid and not Josh Smith as most insist. Andre IMO has a ton of potential but I swear he's AD-D and needs medication and the Pistons should seriously look into this and I wouldn't be shocked if he is. Remember William Bedford? IMO Andre is a more talented Kwame but Kwame nonetheless.

Josh: I love Josh no denying it, but I think Josh is where Stuckey was the last few seasons. Josh has all this talent and need to be playing on some contending team and not here wasting prime years on a losing club. IMO Josh has already given up and he should be traded maybe he'll even fair better on another losing team like LA. At least he'll be on a team with a player motivated to win and not with these loser who obviously don't give a sh!t.

Brandon: Is a talented Street Baller who can never be a true NBA PG, He's a show-boater, lacks substance and filled with self-interest. Why is this? Money doesn't matter really if he plays for 3 million a season it's still more than he needs. Sadly you would think being into self as he is that money would motivate him because it reflects status or at least it use to.

KCP: Is just simply lost, only in his second season and 3rd coach in 2 years and surrounded by un-motivated retards. He's on a path to be mentally crush for more than Stuckey was if SVG doesn't right this ship soon. He has shown potential but it's not consistent and it will never be if he has to continue playing along side Jennings.

Singler: Is totally missed used IMO, he's a role player and a damn good one if was on a smart motivated team. I feel sorry for him in a way but it's his own fault because he of all the players on this team could be a leader. He should be demanding the ball when open, and pitching a bitch when he don't get it. He should be screaming at players not in position and when they blow assignments. Instead he sits and accepts his fate, he has no balls at all if he did he could be a Bird type player.

Other Players: They don' matter because they're role players and should be making that big of an impact anyway, play smart, don't turn the ball over, rest the freaking starters and be done.

I'm almost where Murph is on this team. Blow this mess to kingdom come and start over from scratch. Get a bunch of draft picks and groom them properly. Hard to be pissed at SVG this is still Joe's mess he's dealing with. These guys have no will to win games and it's sad.

[Sebastian]

As a fan who's rooting for a team that trumpets 3 big men as the backbone of the franchise I don't think it's too much to ask, who's coaching them? What are their credentials? Are our big men left to their own devices? Why such shoddy play from arguably our two best interior defenders (Drummond & Smith)? What was the reason for cutting ties with, not only one of the most popular big men of the past, Rasheed Wallace who was also about the most skilled big man to wear a Pistons uniform, and not replacing him with equal talent?

SVG is trying to do too damn much and as a result isn't getting sh!t done! His acquisitions are suspect, the results suck. All that money spent on FA's and not a starter among them....why?! Of all the cliches I've heard, the one that comes to mind now is, "you gotta get it straight from the gate!" As a GM he didn't hit the ground running, but his fat ass hit the ground, stumbled and fell flat on his face, and now we're all waiting for him to get up and get back in the race. It's time for some changes and not minor ones either!

You know who coach Van Gundy reminds me of, if the light hits his personality just so? Dick Vitale. At this present pace, carrying the Joe Dumars weight, we'll see him carted off like we did Dickie V.; a nervous wreak, foaming out the mouth, if he's lucky. He needs help bringing in the players he can successfully coach and I'm not sold on Bowers being the one. With all the hoopla made over redoing the organization from top to bottom; from the front office to the end of the bench, I wonder how effective this organization as a whole is, judging by the product on the floor....looks promising, but something is missing. Bottom line, I see a disconnect between GM SVG and coach Van Gundy.  

DX has asked: Who in the hell is coaching OUR bigs? As DX has reminded US, 'Sheed was not retained on the Coaching Staff. Not retaining 'Sheed may have been the result of a personality conflict, where GM Stan decided that he did not want to have individuals around (i.e 'Sheed, Stuckey) that he did not particular care for.

'Sheed was making much progress with Dre and maybe Moose, too. And, I have no doubts that Josh got along with 'Sheed. And, I only mention Stuckey, not to start a big 'ole discussion about Rodney Norvell Stuckey, but Stuckey did eat SVG's Magic for breakfast, lunch, and dinner when SVG was coaching the Magic.

But, back to DX's main point: OUR bigs look as if they are not receiving any instructions, at all.

[deusXango]

As a fan who's rooting for a team that trumpets 3 big men as the backbone of the franchise I don't think it's too much to ask, who's coaching them? What are their credentials? Are our big men left to their own devices? Why such shoddy play from arguably our two best interior defenders (Drummond & Smith)? What was the reason for cutting ties with, not only one of the most popular big men of the past, Rasheed Wallace who was also about the most skilled big man to wear a Pistons uniform, and not replacing him with equal talent?

SVG is trying to do too damn much and as a result isn't getting sh!t done! His acquisitions are suspect, the results suck. All that money spent on FA's and not a starter among them....why?! Of all the cliches I've heard, the one that comes to mind now is, "you gotta get it straight from the gate!" As a GM he didn't hit the ground running, but his fat ass hit the ground, stumbled and fell flat on his face, and now we're all waiting for him to get up and get back in the race. It's time for some changes and not minor ones either!

You know who coach Van Gundy reminds me of, if the light hits his personality just so? Dick Vitale. At this present pace, carrying the Joe Dumars weight, we'll see him carted off like we did Dickie V.; a nervous wreak, foaming out the mouth, if he's lucky. He needs help bringing in the players he can successfully coach and I'm not sold on Bowers being the one. With all the hoopla made over redoing the organization from top to bottom; from the front office to the end of the bench, I wonder how effective this organization as a whole is, judging by the product on the floor....looks promising, but something is missing. Bottom line, I see a disconnect between GM SVG and coach Van Gundy.

[Oracle]

The Piston's owner, Tom Gores, arrived before the opening tip to watch his team play and lose big to the rebuilding Orlando Magic. The News article advised that Stan admitted that he made some substitution errors in that game and Andre Drummond should have been in the game during crunch time. This game was lost when Van Gundy took his bench players out of the game in my opinion. He should have admitted that error in not keeping the subs in the game until the end. The low producers managed to get all the playing time once again. Could that relate to the amount of money they make rather than their ability to compete against other NBA players?

Maybe Van Gundy should have told Tom Gores that he would have won that game if Tom had not traded Brandon Knight and made a deal to save money that cost Detroit our number one draft pick. Please Stan don't be afraid. The owner is mostly responsible for causing this mess. Nobody on this planet can coach some of our high income players. Will Tom admit to his mistakes? It blew my mind that Van Gundy would be pissed off with himself because he didn't keep Drummond in the game. Drummond is shooting way below 50% from the foul line. He would not have changed anything with his presence but our bench players would have competed and perhaps won that game. I swear all five of our past head coaches have had blinders on when it comes to identifying what is wrong with this team. We need new players Stan.

Yes, the bench has been out playing the high priced spread the last few games... whatever happened to staying with the hot hand?

I also like what DX said, that Knight is the new Afflalo! Joe, in his later years, never met a hard worker that he didn't want to get rid of!

IMO, SVG is going too far with this, he's taking blame for the wrong stuff! I agree with you Don that putting Drummond back in during the 4th quarter is silly, especially the way he's been playing and his FT shooting.

I hate to say this, but Frank had Drummond right where he needed to be... coming off the bench, and he got pressured into going against what was the right thing to do.

SVG & the Piston brain trust(why does that sound like an oxymoron), made a horrible mistake pushing for Drummond to go with Team USA. Drummond needed to have his ass here trying to learn the system, play defense like a big man, and develop ONE, I repeat, ONE good post move!

Drummond has two defensive problems(probably more, but...)
1. He can't figure out when to leave his man for help defense, and his man is always getting easy baskets.
2. He doesn't know when to jump to block shots, so he either does nothing to protect the rim or he fouls

IMO, he'll figure it out one day, but the way SVG is using him, he'll eventually destroy the kids confidence if it doesn't happen soon enough! I NEVER thought I would see Drummond this frustrated, and that's really not a good sign!

[Oracle]

Top Ten Ways To Boost Attendance At the Palace
Giveaways and Promotions

10. George Blaha wig giveaway night - I always thought that was a bad comb over with toxic biological waste instead of Brylcreem for great lubrication
9. Dancing  Tom Gores bobble head night - That maggots head is always on a swivel
8. Free autographed books by SVG "The Power of Negative Thinking"
7. Free books, the Luigi Datome travel book, "Italy on Fifty Cents a Day"
6. Instructional video giveaway "How Not To Play Defense" by the entire team

5.  Free book  night "Dwight Howard Is a Freakin' Narcissist and Other Things I Learned In Orlando" by SVG
4.  Be a Tom Gores' lackey for a day, fan lotto drawing
3.  Autographed used jock strap giveaway - Every Piston fan needs a used jock strap, as the fumes beat smelling salts to stay awake
2.  Win a free Lake Huron trip on the Ebola Cruise Lines - Hey, if we want new players, this is the best way to get rid the bad ones
1.  Commemorative mug giveaway, the ten year anniversary, "The Malice at the Palace" - There's no malice when you're winning... signed Bill Laimbeer, Rick Mahorn, Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, and a host of other big ass kickers from the Pistons winning past!

Fennis just keeps the classics coming!

[cool breeze]

The Piston's owner, Tom Gores, arrived before the opening tip to watch his team play and lose big to the rebuilding Orlando Magic. The News article advised that Stan admitted that he made some substitution errors in that game and Andre Drummond should have been in the game during crunch time. This game was lost when Van Gundy took his bench players out of the game in my opinion. He should have admitted that error in not keeping the subs in the game until the end. The low producers managed to get all the playing time once again. Could that relate to the amount of money they make rather than their ability to compete against other NBA players?

Maybe Van Gundy should have told Tom Gores that he would have won that game if Tom had not traded Brandon Knight and made a deal to save money that cost Detroit our number one draft pick. Please Stan don't be afraid. The owner is mostly responsible for causing this mess. Nobody on this planet can coach some of our high income players. Will Tom admit to his mistakes? It blew my mind that Van Gundy would be pissed off with himself because he didn't keep Drummond in the game. Drummond is shooting way below 50% from the foul line. He would not have changed anything with his presence but our bench players would have competed and perhaps won that game. I swear all five of our past head coaches have had blinders on when it comes to identifying what is wrong with this team. We need new players Stan.

[cool breeze]

ANDRE DRUMMOND: 42%

JOSH SMITH: 47%

KCP: 55%

BUTLER: 87%

SINGLER: 90%

I just threw in our two small forward's free throw stats. The problem is those two players seldom receive a pass in Van Gundy's offensive offense. With those stats for our featured players, we have no chance to win enough games to get into the playoffs. This has been going on now for how long? Isn't it time to send Drummond and Smith packing?

I see that Keith L. thinks our point guards are a plus and Van Gundy likes the idea of playing them at the same time. Great neither guard can stop dribble penetration. And Van Gundy is supposed to be a strong defensive minded coach like Frank. Those two guards are not capable of playing average NBA defense. It is time to bring in Spencer and bench two of the Big Three.

[Murph]

Top Ten Ways To Boost Attendance At the Palace
Giveaways and Promotions

10. George Blaha wig giveaway night
9. Dancing  Tom Gores bobble head night
8. Free autographed books by SVG "The Power of Negative Thinking"
7. Free books, the Luigi Datome travel book, "Italy on Fifty Cents a Day"
6. Instructional video giveaway "How Not To Play Defense" by the entire team

5.  Free book  night "Dwight Howard Is a Freakin' Narcissist and Other Things I Learned In Orlando" by SVG
4.  Be a Tom Gores' lackey for a day, fan lotto drawing
3.  Autographed used jock strap giveaway
2.  Win a free Lake Huron trip on the Ebola Cruise Lines
1.  Commemorative mug giveaway, the ten year anniversary, "The Malice at the Palace"

Oh man...I'm laughing so hard, I'm crying.

[Fennis Dembo]

Top Ten Ways To Boost Attendance At the Palace
Giveaways and Promotions

10. George Blaha wig giveaway night
9. Dancing  Tom Gores bobble head night
8. Free autographed books by SVG "The Power of Negative Thinking"
7. Free books, the Luigi Datome travel book, "Italy on Fifty Cents a Day"
6. Instructional video giveaway "How Not To Play Defense" by the entire team

5.  Free book  night "Dwight Howard Is a Freakin' Narcissist and Other Things I Learned In Orlando" by SVG
4.  Be a Tom Gores' lackey for a day, fan lotto drawing
3.  Autographed used jock strap giveaway
2.  Win a free Lake Huron trip on the Ebola Cruise Lines
1.  Commemorative mug giveaway, the ten year anniversary, "The Malice at the Palace"

[deusXango]

DX actually had a very good post on the state of things, except for the Singler rant. While the problems can't be isolated to a single player, they can be isolated to a single individual.
I thought this was a play on words, but I kept reading, and boy, was I surprised! Oracle, this is the sh!t I'm talking about when I say you can come better; damn good post!

It's mostly on SVG, he's made some very critical mistakes that have hurt the team in the short term, although he can turn it around, the question is how much and how fast. Here are the mistakes as I see them.
Preach brother, preach!

1. He had 20M+ to spend on FA's, and as DX pointed out, we needed an SF & PG. SVG could have easily gotten Isiah Thomas for cheap or via trading Josh, but he punted after making a lot of noise. Then watched as Darren Collison went for peanuts. He fiddled with his Johnson as Afflalo dropped to the Nuggets, and took no fliers on any SF's. In short, SVG decided that quantity was better than quality, so he signed as many scrubs as he could find. Oh, and by the way, Jodie Meeks should NOT in any way, shape or form be your main & biggest FA acquisition! Both me & Seb took a lot of heat on that one, and it's not to say that you don't sign him, but you sign him to a lot lower contract to come off the bench and possibly earn something better!
Not only shouldn't F@ckin' Jodie Meeks have been the biggest FA acquisition, but we're dreaming if we think once he heals, he'll be our savior.
Here's something that's bothered me from the beginning, if you and your staff are watching endless hours of film, what's the purpose of evaluating players during training camp before making a move?

2. He botched the Monroe situation! No matter how you feel about Monroe, keep him, trade him, or let him walk, the outcome that SVG got was really a loser. It boggles the mind that he couldn't have gotten something when he had the ability to trade him without his permission. They played SVG like a drum, stalling out the process long enough to trap him in the QO!
After coming into a draft situation, with no 1st round pick available to you, why not trade both Monroe and Smith to start building around Drummond, if you're serious about him being the future of the franchise? That Big 3 was Joe's idea and a flawed idea at that, so he's basically coaching a Joe Dumars constructed team. At least Joe took a year and studied under Rick "You Gotta be Kidding" Sund, who mentored SVG of the fine points of the GM game?

3. He has and is screwing up Drummond! Last night I knew this was a loss in the first 3 minutes, and here's how,

• The first play of the game was an ISO for Drummond that resulted in a turnover! This is DUMB, and not the way to use his talent, and I'm shocked that it's what they lead the game off doing.
  
• They recovered and scored a lot, taking a double digit lead, but then the usual happens. The other team doesn't have to work to get back into the game, they just have to watch the Pistons self destruct on their own! A turnover by Jennings, another pass to no one, and just a comedy of errors and you've just given the opposing team a lot of confidence!
  

4. SVG's coaching is rusty, he makes a sh!t load of mistakes! To his credit, he does admit them, and I do like that, but here again, they're hurting us big time. It was difficult, and I did take heat on this board for saying his GM skills left a lot to be desired, to see him behave like a rookie GM, but that's likely the biggest problem to overcome. However, I don't want to say his coaching is overrated, but if he doesn't get better, he's looking no better than Cheeks, just a better public relations snow job!
It's becoming obvious SVG doesn't know how to manage Drummond; why breakup the continuity between Drummond and Wallace? Who was Wallace replaced with? Was Drummond consulted about Wallace's dismissal before it took place? This is a small item for the future franchise player, right?

While it is time to really have strong concerns, which I'm sure Gores had watching this mess in person! I mean, what the Cluck, you have the owner there, the coaches old team, and they couldn't muster the balls to take this game personally? If you can't get up for that, you either have no balls, or you have no respect for the owner or the coach.
Talk about "keep cashing them checks."

They certainly weren't fighting for any cause last night!
Maybe they were conserving their energy for the locker room scuffle.

It's not too late to turn things around, but a shakeup is needed, and not just in the players, a shakeup in the thinking about how SVG coaches and uses the players is needed.

He's got to throw out worrying about winning games, and concentrate on getting this RIGHT! If he gets it right, the rest will take care of itself!

Oracle, Sebastian, I said it before and I'm glad that Sebastian is echoing those sentiments, Gores is going to sell this team if given half a chance and 3X's the initial investment. What did the Clippers just go for?

[Sebastian]

DX actually had a very good post on the state of things, except for the Singler rant. While the problems can't be isolated to a single player, they can be isolated to a single individual.

It's mostly on SVG, he's made some very critical mistakes that have hurt the team in the short term, although he can turn it around, the question is how much and how fast. Here are the mistakes as I see them.

1. He had 20M+ to spend on FA's, and as DX pointed out, we needed an SF & PG. SVG could have easily gotten Isiah Thomas for cheap or via trading Josh, but he punted after making a lot of noise. Then watched as Darren Collison went for peanuts. He fiddled with his Johnson as Afflalo dropped to the Nuggets, and took no fliers on any SF's. In short, SVG decided that quantity was better than quality, so he signed as many scrubs as he could find. Oh, and by the way, Jodie Meeks should NOT in any way, shape or form be your main & biggest FA acquisition! Both me & Seb took a lot of heat on that one, and it's not to say that you don't sign him, but you sign him to a lot lower contract to come off the bench and possibly earn something better!

2. He botched the Monroe situation! No matter how you feel about Monroe, keep him, trade him, or let him walk, the outcome that SVG got was really a loser. It boggles the mind that he couldn't have gotten something when he had the ability to trade him without his permission. They played SVG like a drum, stalling out the process long enough to trap him in the QO!

3. He has and is screwing up Drummond! Last night I knew this was a loss in the first 3 minutes, and here's how,

• The first play of the game was an ISO for Drummond that resulted in a turnover! This is DUMB, and not the way to use his talent, and I'm shocked that it's what they lead the game off doing.
  
• They recovered and scored a lot, taking a double digit lead, but then the usual happens. The other team doesn't have to work to get back into the game, they just have to watch the Pistons self destruct on their own! A turnover by Jennings, another pass to no one, and just a comedy of errors and you've just given the opposing team a lot of confidence!
  

4. SVG's coaching is rusty, he makes a sh!t load of mistakes! To his credit, he does admit them, and I do like that, but here again, they're hurting us big time. It was difficult, and I did take heat on this board for saying his GM skills left a lot to be desired, to see him behave like a rookie GM, but that's likely the biggest problem to overcome. However, I don't want to say his coaching is overrated, but if he doesn't get better, he's looking no better than Cheeks, just a better public relations snow job!

While it is time to really have strong concerns, which I'm sure Gores had watching this mess in person! I mean, what the Cluck, you have the owner there, the coaches old team, and they couldn't muster the balls to take this game personally? If you can't get up for that, you either have no balls, or you have no respect for the owner or the coach.

They certainly weren't fighting for any cause last night!

It's not too late to turn things around, but a shakeup is needed, and not just in the players, a shakeup in the thinking about how SVG coaches and uses the players is needed.

He's got to throw out worrying about winning games, and concentrate on getting this RIGHT! If he gets it right, the rest will take care of itself!

And to add to Oracle's list of concerns, OUR Pistons are dead last in attendance thus far this season. The poor attendance numbers is the continuum of poor statistics in the most recent 5 years.



Pistons Pals: I am really concerned about what will happen to OUR Pistons in about 2-3 more years. I am afraid that Gores has plans to sell OUR beloved Pistons to the ownership group in the Great Pacific Northwest (Seattle), who failed to acquire the Sacramento Kings. Gores could care less about OUR Pistons, all he wants is to make a profit.

[Oracle]

DX actually had a very good post on the state of things, except for the Singler rant. While the problems can't be isolated to a single player, they can be isolated to a single individual.

It's mostly on SVG, he's made some very critical mistakes that have hurt the team in the short term, although he can turn it around, the question is how much and how fast. Here are the mistakes as I see them.

1. He had 20M+ to spend on FA's, and as DX pointed out, we needed an SF & PG. SVG could have easily gotten Isiah Thomas for cheap or via trading Josh, but he punted after making a lot of noise. Then watched as Darren Collison went for peanuts. He fiddled with his Johnson as Afflalo dropped to the Nuggets, and took no fliers on any SF's. In short, SVG decided that quantity was better than quality, so he signed as many scrubs as he could find. Oh, and by the way, Jodie Meeks should NOT in any way, shape or form be your main & biggest FA acquisition! Both me & Seb took a lot of heat on that one, and it's not to say that you don't sign him, but you sign him to a lot lower contract to come off the bench and possibly earn something better!

2. He botched the Monroe situation! No matter how you feel about Monroe, keep him, trade him, or let him walk, the outcome that SVG got was really a loser. It boggles the mind that he couldn't have gotten something when he had the ability to trade him without his permission. They played SVG like a drum, stalling out the process long enough to trap him in the QO!

3. He has and is screwing up Drummond! Last night I knew this was a loss in the first 3 minutes, and here's how,

• The first play of the game was an ISO for Drummond that resulted in a turnover! This is DUMB, and not the way to use his talent, and I'm shocked that it's what they lead the game off doing.
  
• They recovered and scored a lot, taking a double digit lead, but then the usual happens. The other team doesn't have to work to get back into the game, they just have to watch the Pistons self destruct on their own! A turnover by Jennings, another pass to no one, and just a comedy of errors and you've just given the opposing team a lot of confidence!
  

4. SVG's coaching is rusty, he makes a sh!t load of mistakes! To his credit, he does admit them, and I do like that, but here again, they're hurting us big time. It was difficult, and I did take heat on this board for saying his GM skills left a lot to be desired, to see him behave like a rookie GM, but that's likely the biggest problem to overcome. However, I don't want to say his coaching is overrated, but if he doesn't get better, he's looking no better than Cheeks, just a better public relations snow job!

While it is time to really have strong concerns, which I'm sure Gores had watching this mess in person! I mean, what the Cluck, you have the owner there, the coaches old team, and they couldn't muster the balls to take this game personally? If you can't get up for that, you either have no balls, or you have no respect for the owner or the coach.

They certainly weren't fighting for any cause last night!

It's not too late to turn things around, but a shakeup is needed, and not just in the players, a shakeup in the thinking about how SVG coaches and uses the players is needed.

He's got to throw out worrying about winning games, and concentrate on getting this RIGHT! If he gets it right, the rest will take care of itself!

[deusXango]

Sh!t talking, ballyhoo, prestidigitation, and the selling of snake oil will not cure what's wrong with our team....it starts with the fans perception of what makes a contending team work, and popularity of mediocre players has gone too far in this town.

Curtis Rowe, Don Adams, Don Reid, Lindsey Hunter, Rodney Stuckey, and now Kyle Singler were vastly overrated players, for where a lot of fans thought they should be ranked, but they were mediocre at best! Only Hunter turned out to be of value to the Pistons and it wasn't as a starter (which he said he was on numerous occasions before being traded to L.A. and playing for Phillip), but as a bench player under great coaches; Jackson and Brown used him to win championships as a part time bench player.

I'm not just on Singler, but damn, anyone who thinks that Jennings is contributing more to the teams efforts than he's short circuiting them is blind! In spite of his obvious talent his lack of control, commitment to team play, and leadership abilities makes him a mediocre PG in todays NBA and one that nobody wants to lead their team. I screamed to deaf ears that there's something wrong with a PG who can get 10-12 assists in the first quarter/half, but end the game with 12-14! He pads his stats and then stops playing team ball and begins playing "me" ball....even though Singler has sucked, when he's been open for a better shot, he's been ignored by Jennings and we wonder why there is no movement on the team. Why waste the energy when the name of the game is clearly, "watch Jennings do his thing."

We started the season with two glowing holes that needed filling; SF and PG. They have not come close to being addressed; as one fan said, "a lot of sizzle, but no streak." We hoped that this would be the year that Jennings would get it, playing under the guidance of SVG....it ain't happening. Before the excuse is offered that it's their first year together, it's Jason Kidd and Brandon Knight's first year together also. Remember Knight, the kid we threw away for a player who's being paid 3X's the money, but providing us with half the game? Yeah that Knight....Afflalo part 2!

Now this is where popularity and politics, by strong voices in a fan base, kills a teams expectations of competing; Singler was played out of position by some dumb ass coaches where he was overmatched on a nightly basis and it's taken us years to see that he's overmatched at his natural position on a nightly basis. The excuse given for him today is he's not getting any touches and when he does, but does nothing with them, it's wait until tomorrow....he's going to raise hell tomorrow! One stellar game out of ten doesn't get it for me! 1 of 10 is 10% people, that means that 90% of the time he's going through the motions while we hold our collective breath waiting for that magical 10% game! He's mediocre. An old ass pro was signed to compete at SF and has been outplaying him. A Euro MVP (with extraordinary shooting skills; the basket is the same the world over for the geniuses out there) is not allowed any PT, even when healthy, and a historical 10 contract player (Martin) won the start in training camp, hands down. He's a popular guy, so he continues to be a vital part of the rotation on a failing team....Orlando beat the sh!t out of us and looked like world champions doing it....Jacque Vaughn out coaching SVG? Say it ain't so.

We could have and should have done better in the FA market; talk all you want about the SVG type team that features long range shooters and I say balderdash! We ain't hitting outside shots worth a sh!t and when that fails, what do we do? What do we do ??!!! We should have signed Stephenson, Thomas, and Morrow; we should have traded Josh for Williams and picks (as much as I hate to say that) and not worry about what Sacramento did this year. Those maneuvers would have cushioned the blow of the loss of Meeks, who I don't have a problem with being signed, and given us a more competitive team. Aguirre was not liked, Laimbeer and Mahorn were pugnacious terrors and we know about the legendary Isiah Thomas. Before Sheed endeared himself to Detroit fans, he was one of the infamous "Jail Blazers," remember? What I'm saying is, our teams weren't choir boys, but they weren't mediocre either, they were competitive champions.

DX...so your point is that the Piston really have good chemistry?  

Man...talk about "the selling of snake oil."  That's the biggest whopper I've heard all season.

In case you didn't notice, Singler had a good first half in this last game. But for some reason the coach didn't play him much at all in the 4th quarter. When he was not in the game, this team was not competitive. I believe he didn't play Singler to see what would happen. What happened is that this team got further and further behind. When you say Singler is way over rated I just don't get where you are coming from. Singler was the last player in the draft to be selected by our Pistons as a 2nd round pick. He was not a top 10 first round draft selection but some of our current players were and they suck big time. But you bring out that Singler is over rated. Singler is a great team orientated player. He is smart unlike many of his teammates. Did you listen to his half time interview. Singler will at some point become a really good coach. If he does, he for sure would not be playing many of his teammates who are making big money. Singler is on the bottom when it comes to making NBA type money. All the focus should be on our point guard and our big men who continually get their asses beat by other point guards and big men. Butler and Singler do not hurt the team. They seldom ever get a pass on offense. In the first half of this game, when Smith did pass the ball in the corner to Singler, Detroit scored a lot with Singler moving the basketball to the open man. We lack ball movement and player movement and point guards who give up the basketball more. And we need big men and point guard who can DEFEND AND MAKE FREE THROWS.

Don, there's no denying Singler has a value to this team, now and going forward, but not as a starter. For my money, and this is not a knock on Singler, he'd never see a minute on the floor with Jennings, Smith, or Monroe...I don't think that's a workable mix of players for Singler to succeed.
I'm in total agreement.

[Sparma]

I trust your eye test, DX, I was simply curious about the numbers, because I wasn't remembering much about Rowe beyond the UCLA days of glory.

Don, I noticed something funny about Singler's halftime interview. Usually, players try to be as non-revelatory as possible in those situations. Same with Singler, except that he praised Augustin by name for his ability to find the open man, even though he'd played both with Jennings (being pointedly ignored at least a couple of times) and with Augustin in that first half. I suspect Murph's right about that locker room. The discord's bubbling to the surface, even in the most polite of manners in the Singler interview.

[deusXango]

I hate to wander off topic, but I'm a Lions fan as well as a Pistons fan and on this Tuesday afternoon, I still can't get over Sundays game. I'd imagine there are a lot of Stafford fans out there, but I can't see the offensive coordinator, so I'm going to go after your boy. Six years on the field, with a 5,000+ yard season under his belt, he should have taken Stanton to the woodshed and taught him a thing or three about quarterbacking; they both were facing staunch defenses!

Can you see Matthew out in the yard with his kids? Firing that sidearm at them at rocket speed? That's the way he plays with his receivers and backs; he throws at them, not to them. I'm not one to criticize his mechanics, but his touch and timing leaves a lot to be desired....every throw doesn't have to be on a rope....why so many under throws? Why so many over throws? If he's to be in the class of the elite (and our favorite subject, his contract, demands he play like the elite) his timing and touch with the ball should change for the better or he's going to cause an unnecessary injury to a valuable teammate. I'd also like for him to read through his progressions a lot quicker. He's our #1 hope from Georgia, KCP being #2....let's go fellas!

[cool breeze]

Sh!t talking, ballyhoo, prestidigitation, and the selling of snake oil will not cure what's wrong with our team....it starts with the fans perception of what makes a contending team work, and popularity of mediocre players has gone too far in this town.

Curtis Rowe, Don Adams, Don Reid, Lindsey Hunter, Rodney Stuckey, and now Kyle Singler were vastly overrated players, for where a lot of fans thought they should be ranked, but they were mediocre at best! Only Hunter turned out to be of value to the Pistons and it wasn't as a starter (which he said he was on numerous occasions before being traded to L.A. and playing for Phillip), but as a bench player under great coaches; Jackson and Brown used him to win championships as a part time bench player.

I'm not just on Singler, but damn, anyone who thinks that Jennings is contributing more to the teams efforts than he's short circuiting them is blind! In spite of his obvious talent his lack of control, commitment to team play, and leadership abilities makes him a mediocre PG in todays NBA and one that nobody wants to lead their team. I screamed to deaf ears that there's something wrong with a PG who can get 10-12 assists in the first quarter/half, but end the game with 12-14! He pads his stats and then stops playing team ball and begins playing "me" ball....even though Singler has sucked, when he's been open for a better shot, he's been ignored by Jennings and we wonder why there is no movement on the team. Why waste the energy when the name of the game is clearly, "watch Jennings do his thing."

We started the season with two glowing holes that needed filling; SF and PG. They have not come close to being addressed; as one fan said, "a lot of sizzle, but no streak." We hoped that this would be the year that Jennings would get it, playing under the guidance of SVG....it ain't happening. Before the excuse is offered that it's their first year together, it's Jason Kidd and Brandon Knight's first year together also. Remember Knight, the kid we threw away for a player who's being paid 3X's the money, but providing us with half the game? Yeah that Knight....Afflalo part 2!

Now this is where popularity and politics, by strong voices in a fan base, kills a teams expectations of competing; Singler was played out of position by some dumb ass coaches where he was overmatched on a nightly basis and it's taken us years to see that he's overmatched at his natural position on a nightly basis. The excuse given for him today is he's not getting any touches and when he does, but does nothing with them, it's wait until tomorrow....he's going to raise hell tomorrow! One stellar game out of ten doesn't get it for me! 1 of 10 is 10% people, that means that 90% of the time he's going through the motions while we hold our collective breath waiting for that magical 10% game! He's mediocre. An old ass pro was signed to compete at SF and has been outplaying him. A Euro MVP (with extraordinary shooting skills; the basket is the same the world over for the geniuses out there) is not allowed any PT, even when healthy, and a historical 10 contract player (Martin) won the start in training camp, hands down. He's a popular guy, so he continues to be a vital part of the rotation on a failing team....Orlando beat the sh!t out of us and looked like world champions doing it....Jacque Vaughn out coaching SVG? Say it ain't so.

We could have and should have done better in the FA market; talk all you want about the SVG type team that features long range shooters and I say balderdash! We ain't hitting outside shots worth a sh!t and when that fails, what do we do? What do we do ??!!! We should have signed Stephenson, Thomas, and Morrow; we should have traded Josh for Williams and picks (as much as I hate to say that) and not worry about what Sacramento did this year. Those maneuvers would have cushioned the blow of the loss of Meeks, who I don't have a problem with being signed, and given us a more competitive team. Aguirre was not liked, Laimbeer and Mahorn were pugnacious terrors and we know about the legendary Isiah Thomas. Before Sheed endeared himself to Detroit fans, he was one of the infamous "Jail Blazers," remember? What I'm saying is, our teams weren't choir boys, but they weren't mediocre either, they were competitive champions.

DX...so your point is that the Piston really have good chemistry?  

Man...talk about "the selling of snake oil."  That's the biggest whopper I've heard all season.

In case you didn't notice, Singler had a good first half in this last game. But for some reason the coach didn't play him much at all in the 4th quarter. When he was not in the game, this team was not competitive. I believe he didn't play Singler to see what would happen. What happened is that this team got further and further behind. When you say Singler is way over rated I just don't get where you are coming from. Singler was the last player in the draft to be selected by our Pistons as a 2nd round pick. He was not a top 10 first round draft selection but some of our current players were and they suck big time. But you bring out that Singler is over rated. Singler is a great team orientated player. He is smart unlike many of his teammates. Did you listen to his half time interview. Singler will at some point become a really good coach. If he does, he for sure would not be playing many of his teammates who are making big money. Singler is on the bottom when it comes to making NBA type money. All the focus should be on our point guard and our big men who continually get their asses beat by other point guards and big men. Butler and Singler do not hurt the team. They seldom ever get a pass on offense. In the first half of this game, when Smith did pass the ball in the corner to Singler, Detroit scored a lot with Singler moving the basketball to the open man. We lack ball movement and player movement and point guards who give up the basketball more. And we need big men and point guard who can DEFEND AND MAKE FREE THROWS.

[cool breeze]

I seriously have my doubts that Andre Drummond will ever be a franchise type player. Same with Josh Smith and Greg Monroe. The guy that could have been the franchise player for Detroit was Brandon Knight Tom and Joe. But you traded Knight away with another player that might be better in the long run than our current set of guards. Drummond made so many mistakes on defense last night it was amazing. Orlando's center made fools out of all of our big men. And for those of you who didn't have the opportunity to watch what Arron Gordon brought to the Orlando team at 19 years of age, you would be even more depressed with the prospects of our lame Big Three. Gordon has fantastic foot work on defense. He blocks shots and runs the court like a deer. He is never tired and he never makes excuses. I watched his interview after a game awhile back where he said being 19 and a rookie cannot be used as an excuse when he screws up. He said it doesn't matter how many points he scores, he only wants to win and be dominate. We have no player with that kind of attitude so we can say the future looks great. Greg Kelser did a good job of describing how Orlando was able to always have open shooters open. The way Orlando plays offense is the future of the NBA. The Pistons strategy is so flawed as to what kind of players will win big in the future. Orlando might end up losing more games than our Pistons this season but they will get another great player in the draft while we continue to watch the Big Three develop. How much more can they develop? We have two big men who we have built the team around, Drummond and Smith who are shooting below 50% from the foul line. And they are both below average defenders and far behind other big players who always out wit them. Opposing teams have not even had to try to use the hack a Drummond or hack a Smith strategy yet. But they would do it in the playoffs.

The bottom like is that Josh Smith and Andre Drummond should be considered for future trades now before their value gets lower. Management might be able to really score by trading Drummond who is so highly regarded as a potential future star. I have serious doubts about that ever happening. We need a point guard like Brandon Knight and a fast moving group of players who have stamina and can pass and move without the basketball while playing hard nosed defense on every possession. Our guys are trying really hard and it isn't working out. Time to move in a different direction. We need to get a real high draft pick next year. As for this season, I would scrap the idea of starting The Big Three and would start Jerebco and Singler with Monroe, KCP, Jennings. This coach needs to give Spencer Dinwiddie a chance to win the point guard starting position if not use him as a back up.

[deusXango]

Dang, DX, you're straining my memory.  I could remember his 3 NCAA championships, but had to look up his NBA stats.  In his statistically best season (his second with the Pistons), he averaged 16.1 ppg and 9.4 rebounds per game.  The numbers came in higher back then, but bear in mind that our best player (GM) is now sitting at 15.6 and 10.3, very similar numbers.   He went on to be an NBA All-Star once, averaging 16 and 8.7 that season.  11.6 and 7.2 for his career.  Ran into serious trouble later.

Sparma, perhaps I strained my memory with the Curtis Rowe drop the Cobo Hall Pistons were horrible back then (along with being snake bitten). I wasn't a big fan of Curtis, because I expected so much more of him back then, and he didn't deliver. I know what the stat may reflect now, but the eye test then was something different. The thing with these guys is, they were all solid citizens (with the exception of Stuckey showing his ass at a Pistons great jersey retirement ceremony....that's my personal, pet peeve).

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