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Monroe's net effect

Post  merc on Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:21 pm

If you really pay attention to his defense you can easily concluded that he has a negative net effect... can't defend the perimeter... too slow to help inside... average offensive efficiency... doesn't help in transition offense or defense...bottles up the inside because he can't step out and shoot.
This is NOT a player you should consider for near max dollars... I'd rather take my chances on using his cap elsewhere.

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I know, I know

Post  lemonpen on Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:45 pm

Oracle wrote:
lemonpen wrote:Every team in the Association has what Mark Jackson refers to as knock down shooters.  Some more than others.  We have none.  NONE !! Problem is we are fooled into believing that is the root cause of our issues.  I don't think so.

IF YOU CAN'T BE THERE ON THE CATCH YOU AIN'T DEFENDING SHI!!!!.
IF YOU CAN'T ANTICIPATE THE PASS GOING TO YOUR MAN WHO IS STANDING ON THE PERIMETER YOU AIN'T DEFENDING SHI!!!

For whatever reason we yet again continue to sink into the lane to the point we are unable to recover to deep threats, getting burned over and over.

Seems to me that we might be better off using less help inside and tighter coverage on the edges.


We can't even make shots 1 inch from the basket, and in a game focused on... SHOOTING, you view lack of same not a problem?

I won't go into a long explanation, but the Warriors shoot 47% and we shoot 36%, you do the math!

I understand, but it's nothing new. The experts have criticized our shooting for over a year. We've supposedly brought in shooters so I'll wait to see if it improves when Meeks and Martin are on go. But, we can't continue to allow 44% 3pt shooting though. (last 4 games)

Who knows, maybe there is no answer.
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EXCELLENT analysis... excellent!!!

Post  Oracle on Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:36 pm

lemonpen wrote:Well, well, well, I guess four years does constitute a trend, so why be surprised by a fifth.   Don't believe the misinformation, this began 3 years B4 his arrival here.  Josh is a bad signing that will only get worse.  We are slowly but surely seeing what's left after the athleticism fades.   Again, I say don't believe me look at the numbers, look at the video.  JS can no longer get the board on jumping ability alone.  He can't recover to HIS man at SF OR PF.  He currently hides behind defensive switches.  Without the 3pt shot and with crappy free throw shooting his scoring can no longer be masked by increased shots per game.  At this point, He giveth and He taketh away.

I've been looking for the words, and you didn't need many to nail the Josh Smith enigma!

It's only once in a blue moon that we see the old Josh! Ok, he had a sh!t load of assists, but as you said, he'll take away more than he ever gives during the course of a game.

One thing I might add is that he's like AI at this point! He could be so much better if he recognized his weaknesses and played within his remaining ability, but he doesn't. He constantly attempts to do all of the things everybody knows that he can't do!

Joe Dumars, the patron saint of washed up players!
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J. Smoove, A Player in Decline

Post  lemonpen on Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:14 pm

Well, well, well, I guess four years does constitute a trend, so why be surprised by a fifth. Don't believe the misinformation, this began 3 years B4 his arrival here. Josh is a bad signing that will only get worse. We are slowly but surely seeing what's left after the athleticism fades. Again, I say don't believe me look at the numbers, look at the video. JS can no longer get the board on jumping ability alone. He can't recover to HIS man at SF OR PF. He currently hides behind defensive switches. Without the 3pt shot and with crappy free throw shooting his scoring can no longer be masked by increased shots per game. At this point, He giveth and He taketh away.
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Lemon, are you watching the games?

Post  Oracle on Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:03 pm

lemonpen wrote:Every team in the Association has what Mark Jackson refers to as knock down shooters.  Some more than others.  We have none.  NONE !! Problem is we are fooled into believing that is the root cause of our issues.  I don't think so.

IF YOU CAN'T BE THERE ON THE CATCH YOU AIN'T DEFENDING SHI!!!!.
IF YOU CAN'T ANTICIPATE THE PASS GOING TO YOUR MAN WHO IS STANDING ON THE PERIMETER YOU AIN'T DEFENDING SHI!!!

For whatever reason we yet again continue to sink into the lane to the point we are unable to recover to deep threats, getting burned over and over.

Seems to me that we might be better off using less help inside and tighter coverage on the edges.


We can't even make shots 1 inch from the basket, and in a game focused on... SHOOTING, you view lack of same not a problem?

I won't go into a long explanation, but the Warriors shoot 47% and we shoot 36%, you do the math!
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Message to Yo Mamma

Post  lemonpen on Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:10 pm

Every team in the Association has what Mark Jackson refers to as knock down shooters.  Some more than others.  We have none.  NONE !! Problem is we are fooled into believing that is the root cause of our issues.  I don't think so.

IF YOU CAN'T BE THERE ON THE CATCH YOU AIN'T DEFENDING SHI!!!!.
IF YOU CAN'T ANTICIPATE THE PASS GOING TO YOUR MAN WHO IS STANDING ON THE PERIMETER YOU AIN'T DEFENDING SHI!!!

For whatever reason we yet again continue to sink into the lane to the point we are unable to recover to deep threats, getting burned over and over.

Seems to me that we might be better off using less help inside and tighter coverage on the edges.

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Leo's

Post  lemonpen on Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:35 pm

IMHO Matty S had the best game of his career. Not the most yards, or the most points, or the most completions. He was simply the most effective I've seen, and at a time when he has historically crumbled. I'm shocked that no one noticed a marked difference in him. There were NO side arm slings. He threw nearly every pass using fundamental mechanics. It led to dead on balls pinpoint accuracy, like never seen before.

Also, it seems Matty S. gained quite a bit of confidence during the 4th possession after we quit looking 20 yards downfield and committed to a short passing game. Might be a good way to start off next week.
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Frontcourt

Post  Sparma on Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:24 pm


Good point/ question, Deus (one that Murph raised earlier). I now think that would have been the way to go. You mention the downside on offense yourself: both need to operate inside. At this point, I think we need to make decisions assuming that Monroe's leaving (even if there's a 10% chance he'd stay for the extra money). Then, it looks like AD should be groomed as the future center, just as SVG seems to be doing. I now think that we missed an opportunity, one which may have led to Monroe happily signing longterm (but for a reasonable price??). It didn't have to be all or nothing either: AD could play center with Moose out, but shift to PF when he's in. I could be convinced that your suggestion's the way to go even now, with Monroe very likely nearing his exit, but for now I endorse SVG's approach to AD: experiment, see what he's capable of at C, make adjustments with that info gained from a lost season in hand.

deusXango wrote:I'd like to hear a reasonable, logical explanation as to why Drummond can't be groomed as a PF; defensively he makes more sense, to me, than to keep running the Moose out there. Offensively, neither one has a mid-range game, but defense is where games are won or lost. Help me gentlemen.
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Can I get in on some of that action?

Post  Oracle on Sun Nov 30, 2014 2:17 pm

deusXango wrote:I'd like to hear a reasonable, logical explanation as to why Drummond can't be groomed as a PF; defensively he makes more sense, to me, than to keep running the Moose out there. Offensively, neither one has a mid-range game, but defense is where games are won or lost. Help me gentlemen.

Call me crazy, but I think you're on to something.

1. Drummond used for the jump balls
2. Monroe plays center full time, I see no need to play him at PF at all

Defensively this makes a world of sense because Monroe is best defending the slower centers than getting his ass handed to him by nimble PF's, and most of all, Monroe plays smarter defense closer to the basket.

It also makes sense offensively! Since we aren't using the PF position to spread anything, it makes no difference on offense if Monroe or Drummond plays PF. It actually would appear to open a lot more scoring opportunities for the speedier Drummond, I mean, how many people want to see that behemoth cutting to the basket Shocked

And the lob possibilities are endless for an active Drummond freed from only living in limited space down low, in effect spreading the floor in a different way, but spreading it none the less!
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Question for Don and Sparma

Post  deusXango on Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:42 pm

I'd like to hear a reasonable, logical explanation as to why Drummond can't be groomed as a PF; defensively he makes more sense, to me, than to keep running the Moose out there. Offensively, neither one has a mid-range game, but defense is where games are won or lost. Help me gentlemen.
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What it takes for "Big Guard" fulfillment

Post  deusXango on Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:34 pm

Sparma wrote:You saw it coming too, Oracle.  I tend to favor big guards.   At least, I want a big guard to be in the mix.  That's partly why I like the Augustin - Dinwiddie combo.  No takers on Jennings, I'm assuming.  We likely at the point where other teams will be demanding cut rate deals.   A crummy record affects the trade value of individual players, I think (although we could still get a king's ransom for AD).
Nope. We got all we need for now with Dinwiddie and Augustin.
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MCW

Post  Sparma on Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:48 am

You saw it coming too, Oracle. I tend to favor big guards. At least, I want a big guard to be in the mix. That's partly why I like the Augustin - Dinwiddie combo. No takers on Jennings, I'm assuming. We likely at the point where other teams will be demanding cut rate deals. A crummy record affects the trade value of individual players, I think (although we could still get a king's ransom for AD).
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We see what we want to see

Post  deusXango on Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:22 am

Don, you're right about the percentages for the players you support, but are you really satisfied with Singler averaging 6.8 points, 2.1 rebounds, and 0.7 assists in 22.36 minutes of play? Hell, Jerebko makes more sense to bang the drum about because of his 5.5 points, 2.4 rebounds, and 0.5 assists in 15 minutes a night! Oh yeah, Jerebko doesn't play SF, but Butler does and his averages of production suck to high heaven also! 7.1 points, 4.1 rebounds, and 0.7 assists in 25.43 minutes a night for a combined total of 13.9 points, 6.2 rebounds, and 1.4 assists in 47.79 minutes of play....Josh's percentages of production are better than both of them in 33 minutes of play, so the sad and sobering fact is we suck at SF! I forget who it was that said too much emphasis was being placed on SF, by me, but the numbers of production suggests that statement was bullsh!t. The way that single position is being manned (particularly with how many candidates we have to man it) is horrific and it's killing us from night-to-night!

Mediocre is a word I use consistently to describe this team and it's play, and no one on this forum ever takes issue with it, so that suggests to me that we're more alike than different in our thinking....let's honestly examine why our home team is mediocre and showing no promise in the near future. All of our SF candidates should be gone by next year; damn favoritism! Let's start fresh, with a totally new crew. The FA signees SVG brought in (Butler and Martin) are players that were signed too early and for too much money, in addition to not being what this team needed. Singler should go where he can "blow up," because it's obvious he won't here and how much are we willing to pay for a 9th man? Datome hasn't been used at all and if a player was to go to San Antonio from our roster, I'd love for it to be Gigi....they were rumored to have first interest in him, but he felt there'd be more playing time available for him here. lol Mitchell's efforts speak for themselves. Look at that cast of characters....mediocre! I see why SVG keeps starting Smith at SF, I mean who else? Smith is a PF, like J.J.!
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SVG uses his analytics department to get answers... it doesn't yield anything!

Post  Oracle on Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:49 am

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2014/11/column_detroit_pistons_problem.html wrote:The Pistons continue to start the big-three line of Andre Drummond, Greg Monroe and Josh Smith. It hasn't worked, which isn't to say there is a better option, which isn't to say change for change's sake is always bad, either.

Their shooting is atrocious. They signed four free agents this summer who shot 40 percent on 3-pointers. The only ones at that benchmark so far this season are two longtime Pistons, Jonas Jerebko and Kyle Singler.

They replaced departed Rodney Stuckey with -- for now and the immediate future -- nothing. Jodie Meeks has missed the entire season with his back injury, an eight-week projected rehabilitation, a time span ending Dec. 9, when the Pistons might have their highest-priced free agent back.

The Pistons are 27th in points; 28th in field goals; 29th in field-goal percentage, free throws, free-throw percentage and steals; and 30th in 2-point percentage and assists.

They don't steal the ball, move it, or shoot it effectively. They also are 20th in free-throw attempts, so they don't get to the line enough, and when they do, it's only a two-thirds proposition that they make the shot.


Wow, of all the shooters brought in to shoot 3's, ONLY two old Pistons are fulfilling the dream???
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Lions

Post  Oracle on Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:43 am

Damn, no Lions today!!!

Why can't they play the effing Bears again lol
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Don

Post  Oracle on Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:40 am

I really like your thoughts about getting JJ more PT, even if only to shake up an already putrid situation.

SVG did a crappy job during preseason of,

1. Doing what he said about positions being open and best man wins
2. Looking at more than a few options to promote competition

Then he compounded the problems in the regular season by immediately going to playing 8-9 players deep! WTF? He didn't allow any room to experiment and get substitutions right.

SVG has done a shockingly sh!tty job as head coach for the Pistons.

To make matters worse, what you've point out shows that he isn't even learning from what's going on game to game.

Don wrote:THE ABOVE LISTED PLAYERS WOULD NOT BE ON THE FLOOR MUCH AT ALL FOR ANY CURRENT PLAYOFF CALIBER TEAM. NO TEAM CAN AFFORD TO PLAY TWO PLAYERS FOR AN AVERAGE OF 33 PLUS MINUTES A GAME WHEN THEY SHOOT THE BALL AT 34 TO 35% AVERAGE PER GAME WHILE SHOOTING FREE THROWS AT 42% AND 63% RESPECTIVELY. THAT IS INSANE STAN VAN GUNDY. ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS THAT THIS COACH MUST THINK AT ALL PISTON FANS AND THE OWNER MUST BE REALLY STUPID.

That's a stinging indictment of the SVG situation.

As I keep saying, Gores hired a rookie GM and a rusty coach! Both situations should get better, but serious damage has already been done, and now some hard decisions will need to be made.

If tanking the season hasn't entered his mind, I'd be very shocked. However, I don't know if they can mentally or politically let themselves go there! There are three very good reasons to believe that they will pull a Joe Dumars type season.

1. Tanking will draw a lot of harsh blowback from the Fans(big money/attendance losses)
2. The players will go into a deep funk(morale will hit an all time low, and FA's will run for cover to go anywhere else)
3. They'll get crucified in the Press(they're going to look as dumb as they really are, but don't think they are)

In short, they're damned no matter what they do, but I don't believe for one minute that that will drive them to do the right thing.

Stay tuned, we'll see how this plays out!
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MCW vs Burke

Post  Oracle on Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:20 am

Well, just for tonight, but IMO, MCW WAS the pick we needed badly, even if KCP may one day fulfill the prophesy Smile

Michael Carter-Williams scores 18 points, dishes out 16 assists, and grabs 10 rebounds

Even though the Sixers lost, that Triple Double is amazing! He scores at a good clip, assist at an amazing clip, and still pulls down 10 freaking boards??? Wow!!!

Then there's Trey Booger, er., I mean Burke.

Trey Burke scores 3 points, dishes out 3 assists, and grabs 1 rebounds

A SOLID Triple Single if I ever saw one Sad

Sparma, take a bow because you also saw this one coming!

IMO, Burke needs a system designed for him because his limitations don't allow him to fit in to most NBA teams.

Then again, it's hard to score and dish assist when you're having a hard time keeping your DRAWS on - Trey Burke, Jazz address nude photo leak

Or as the Jazz say,
Jazz Management wrote:Which is why the Jazz were disappointed when Michigan University did a bait and switch. They drafted Trey Burke. But Trey Burke was not what they had received.
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WHY OUR PISTONS CONTINUE TO GET THEIR ASSES KICKED

Post  cool breeze on Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:33 am

This last game really proved that our team is not moving forward in a positive way. Stan Van Gundy might think that once he gets Jennings and Meeks in the lineup together, things will change. But to me this team appears to be built as an out of date team. The best teams play smart, push the basketball and play fundamentally sound players who give maximum effort on defense. They have some quick big men who are really athletic and have amazing endurance. The good teams also have a big supply of highly talented high percentage shooters at the skill positions. Meanwhile we continue to see players who have the following stats.

Smith:
Average minutes played per game: 33.8 ( way too many minutes for a player with such horrible stats)
FG%: 33.8%
3 PFG%: 250%
FT: 42%

KCP:
Average minutes played per game: 33.6
FG%: 358%
3 PFG: 348%
FT: 63%

Augustin:
24.1 average minutes played per game
FT%:357%
3 PFG%: 240%
FT: 83%

THE ABOVE LISTED PLAYERS WOULD NOT BE ON THE FLOOR MUCH AT ALL FOR ANY CURRENT PLAYOFF CALIBER TEAM. NO TEAM CAN AFFORD TO PLAY TWO PLAYERS FOR AN AVERAGE OF 33 PLUS MINUTES A GAME WHEN THEY SHOOT THE BALL AT 34 TO 35% AVERAGE PER GAME WHILE SHOOTING FREE THROWS AT 42% AND 63% RESPECTIVELY. THAT IS INSANE STAN VAN GUNDY. ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS THAT THIS COACH MUST THINK AT ALL PISTON FANS AND THE OWNER MUST BE REALLY STUPID.

Stans pick up of Augustin has been a failure so far. But if Stan bothered to sit down DJ and tell him to cool it with the one on one shoot first habits and concentrate more to ball distribution and hard nosed defense, perhaps Augustin might get his confidence back and shoot the ball better if he is successful with basic things other than shooting. Perhaps Stan should experiment more and share some of Smith's and KCP's minutes with some of their other teammates. keep them fresh and maybe they will play better. Singler is shooting the ball at a 455% clip and us close to 400% shooting the 3 ball while his free throw shooting percentage is currently at 90%. You cannot play players over 30 minutes a game who shoot free throws like Smith and KCP. I have not mentioned Drummond's free throw shooting percentage but Andre's minutes should be reduced as well because of his poor free throw shooting and his approach to playing defense. Drummond seems to only like to dunk the basketball. This is a big thrill but we need him to be our best defender and rebounder on the defensive end.

All this information reveals that the head coach should shoulder much of the blame for failure to address the stats of the players he has selected to play most of the minutes. KCP appears to look like he is really feeling the pressure. A good coach would allow him to play less minutes so he has time to reflect and get his mojo back. Smith might like some rest. He is playing hard and has nothing to show relating to team wins for his effort. Let guys like Jerebco know that he is important to the team and my bet is that Jonas will play extremely hard. But Van Gundy has screwed with Jerebco's mind as he has done with Singler and Dinwiddie. If they don't work out, then play some of the other bench players more. But it is important to split up the Big 3 real soon and limit the minutes of all of them. Maybe Stan should consider something other than what he has been doing so far in this sorry season for Piston fans. How many fans have faith in this head coach? Do any of you understand his master plan?

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:59 am

WISEFAN wrote:
Oracle wrote:Wise, we all have mixed feelings about Monroe, and I do fully back moving him for whatever we can get, but when you attack his character like you did, I think you go too far.

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2014/11/detroit_pistons_notes_svg_soot.html wrote:AUBURN HILLS -- Greg Monroe seemed unhappy, so Detroit Pistons coach Stan Van Gundy took the initiative and went to discuss it with him Saturday.

Monroe, arguably the Pistons' best offensive player, played 23 minutes and took three field-goal attempts in the team's seventh consecutive loss, 104-88 to the Milwaukee Bucks on Friday.

"I talked to him today and I asked him flat-out, 'Are you upset about the minutes and the touches?'" Van Gundy said. "And he said, 'I was terrible last night, I've got no problem with what you did last night.' For whatever reason, it wasn't a good night for him. Tomorrow will be better."

That's bad character?

Sorry Oracle but I see what I see and it's really not hard to see.  Just because he didn't react hostile and upset in responding to SVG doesn't mean what I said isn't true.   He response actually kind of proves my point just how much he doesn't give a sh!t brcuase he really been playing crappy the past 3-4 games.  

This guy has all the tools to be a CONSISTENT 20-10 guy even on this team and there is no reason why he should be.  Tell me of any reason or cause beyond himself that he's not capable.  

Oracle is right on this issue of character. Greg Monroe is a good man. He has high character and does a lot for others who are not as fortunate in life. Last night Greg Monroe didn't play well. All of the Bucks big men were a step quicker than Monroe on both ends of the floor. But this entire Bucks team has more quickness at almost every position than our Pistons. And that is true relating to how the Pistons match up with almost every NBA team this season. None of our big men can defend well and they are not fundamentally sound which leads this team to suffer much of the time because our big men seldom box out and limit the opposition to one shot. One big man who is quicker than any of the other bigs other than Josh Smith is Jonas Jerebco. But somehow the coach doesn't believe Jonas is a good fit for any of the other big men. In my opinion Monroe and Drummond are the weakest defenders among the big men. They seem to be slow thinkers and in Monroe's case, he lacks quickness so add that to a slow mental reaction to situations and he gets beat a lot. But Monroe has his strengths against certain teams. This coach needs to make adjustments with player rotations based on which NBA team the Pistons happen to be playing at the time. But he continues to stick with the Big Three regardless of the situation. Why not try to mix things up? Does Van Gundy believe that Jennings absence is the cause of this last ass kicking? If so he is dead wrong. I believe that Smith and Jerebco are the best big men defenders. i believe that this coach should be going to Jonas Jerebco and asking him how he is feeling about his role with the team. I believe that with certain players, SVG has no interest in communicating to let them know he believes they are important. But instead he babies the selected starters and Augustin.

This argument about Monroe's character is just plain silly but this coach's decision to let us know that he had a talk with Monroe is just as silly.

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I See What I see

Post  WTF on Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:27 pm

Oracle wrote:Wise, we all have mixed feelings about Monroe, and I do fully back moving him for whatever we can get, but when you attack his character like you did, I think you go too far.

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2014/11/detroit_pistons_notes_svg_soot.html wrote:AUBURN HILLS -- Greg Monroe seemed unhappy, so Detroit Pistons coach Stan Van Gundy took the initiative and went to discuss it with him Saturday.

Monroe, arguably the Pistons' best offensive player, played 23 minutes and took three field-goal attempts in the team's seventh consecutive loss, 104-88 to the Milwaukee Bucks on Friday.

"I talked to him today and I asked him flat-out, 'Are you upset about the minutes and the touches?'" Van Gundy said. "And he said, 'I was terrible last night, I've got no problem with what you did last night.' For whatever reason, it wasn't a good night for him. Tomorrow will be better."

That's bad character?

Sorry Oracle but I see what I see and it's really not hard to see. Just because he didn't react hostile and upset in responding to SVG doesn't mean what I said isn't true. He response actually kind of proves my point just how much he doesn't give a sh!t brcuase he really been playing crappy the past 3-4 games.

This guy has all the tools to be a CONSISTENT 20-10 guy even on this team and there is no reason why he should be. Tell me of any reason or cause beyond himself that he's not capable.
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Very Funny Sh!t, and hear from the master... he went too quick!!!

Post  Oracle on Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:15 pm

Fennis Dembo wrote:Stan Van Gundy at a loss as to what to do with his losing team calls in a motivational speaker, ex-Piston Walter Sharpe, to inspire the team to greatness.

Sharpe:  Hi, how is everybody?  Good. Great.
Now as your coach probably told you.  My name is Walter Sharpe and I am a motivational speaker.
So let me give you a little scenario of what my life is about.

First up I am twenty-eight years old and I used to be a professional basketball player like you, but now I live in a van down by the river.
I've had to overcome many adversities in my life.  I was shot in the stomach, arrested, kicked off two college teams, and was afflicted with sleeping sickness, and then Joe Dumars traded for me and put me on a losing team.  Unfortunately that was too much for one human to overcome. Hence my sad unfortunate current state of affairs.

Hey, you guys are probably saying to yourselves: I'm going to win multiple championships.  I'll be a perennial all star.  I'll be elected to the Basketball Hall of Fame.  My career will be full of adoring fans, groupies farting rainbows, tongue wrestling with numerous super models.  I'll be the next Michael Jordan or Tim Duncan. Well I am here to to tell you that you'll probably find out as you go out there, that you're not going to amount to jack squat!  You'll end up like me living in a van down by the river.
 
So Drummond you think you're such a stud rebounder?
Drummond:  I do okay for a young guy.
Sharpe:  Well, la-de freakin-dah.  Coach, we got us a regular Wilt Chamberlin here.  I hear you're trying to break his record not for rebounding, but for makin' whoopie with 20,000 skanks and big booty hos. Odds are you'll end up living in a van down by the river.
And Josh Smith you are the highest paid player on the team.  How you doin'?  
Smith:  Alright. I'm still trying to fit into the new system.
Sharpe:  How's that working out for you?   You shoot free throws with all the accuracy of a circus seal and the fans moan and groan every time you shoot.  Their dream is to see you on another team.
Smith: Wow! Take it easy. I've got feelings.

Sharpe: You guys are fifteen square pegs that will never ever fit into Coach Van Gundy's round hole system.  You are doomed to a never ending series of ignominious defeats and humiliation.  
There is only one solution I can see for improving this team.  I'll get my gear out of my van and become part of the team. I will travel with you guys, practice with you guys, shower with you guys.  I'll be there 24/7 and I'll be the missing link to your success. I'll be your pal.  I'll be your buddy.  Here's you.  Here's me right next to you.  I'm tired of living in a van down by the river.  (Sharpe falls on a table and breaks it into splinters then gets up and leaves the room to gather his belongings)

The entire team:  Coach, we'll play better.  We'll win. We'll do everything you want, just get rid of this guy!
Van Gundy: I hope you are now all ready to follow my directions and play together like a team.
Entire team:  Yes, we are coach.
Van Gundy: (Muttering to himself) See, there is a method to my madness.



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Direct from the Matt Foley Institute of Motivation

Post  Fennis Dembo on Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:30 pm

Stan Van Gundy at a loss as to what to do with his losing team calls in a motivational speaker, ex-Piston Walter Sharpe, to inspire the team to greatness.

Sharpe: Hi, how is everybody? Good. Great.
Now as your coach probably told you. My name is Walter Sharpe and I am a motivational speaker.
So let me give you a little scenario of what my life is about.

First up I am twenty-eight years old and I used to be a professional basketball player like you, but now I live in a van down by the river.
I've had to overcome many adversities in my life. I was shot in the stomach, arrested, kicked off two college teams, and was afflicted with sleeping sickness, and then Joe Dumars traded for me and put me on a losing team. Unfortunately that was too much for one human to overcome. Hence my sad unfortunate current state of affairs.

Hey, you guys are probably saying to yourselves: I'm going to win multiple championships. I'll be a perennial all star. I'll be elected to the Basketball Hall of Fame. My career will be full of adoring fans, groupies farting rainbows, tongue wrestling with numerous super models. I'll be the next Michael Jordan or Tim Duncan. Well I am here to to tell you that you'll probably find out as you go out there, that you're not going to amount to jack squat! You'll end up like me living in a van down by the river.

So Drummond you think you're such a stud rebounder?
Drummond: I do okay for a young guy.
Sharpe: Well, la-de freakin-dah. Coach, we got us a regular Wilt Chamberlin here. I hear you're trying to break his record not for rebounding, but for makin' whoopie with 20,000 skanks and big booty hos. Odds are you'll end up living in a van down by the river.
And Josh Smith you are the highest paid player on the team. How you doin'?
Smith: Alright. I'm still trying to fit into the new system.
Sharpe: How's that working out for you? You shoot free throws with all the accuracy of a circus seal and the fans moan and groan every time you shoot. Their dream is to see you on another team.
Smith: Wow! Take it easy. I've got feelings.

Sharpe: You guys are fifteen square pegs that will never ever fit into Coach Van Gundy's round hole system. You are doomed to a never ending series of ignominious defeats and humiliation.
There is only one solution I can see for improving this team. I'll get my gear out of my van and become part of the team. I will travel with you guys, practice with you guys, shower with you guys. I'll be there 24/7 and I'll be the missing link to your success. I'll be your pal. I'll be your buddy. Here's you. Here's me right next to you. I'm tired of living in a van down by the river. (Sharpe falls on a table and breaks it into splinters then gets up and leaves the room to gather his belongings)

The entire team: Coach, we'll play better. We'll win. We'll do everything you want, just get rid of this guy!
Van Gundy: I hope you are now all ready to follow my directions and play together like a team.
Entire team: Yes, we are coach.
Van Gundy: (Muttering to himself) See, there is a method to my madness.


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Monroe's Character

Post  Oracle on Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:45 pm

Wise, we all have mixed feelings about Monroe, and I do fully back moving him for whatever we can get, but when you attack his character like you did, I think you go too far.

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2014/11/detroit_pistons_notes_svg_soot.html wrote:AUBURN HILLS -- Greg Monroe seemed unhappy, so Detroit Pistons coach Stan Van Gundy took the initiative and went to discuss it with him Saturday.

Monroe, arguably the Pistons' best offensive player, played 23 minutes and took three field-goal attempts in the team's seventh consecutive loss, 104-88 to the Milwaukee Bucks on Friday.

"I talked to him today and I asked him flat-out, 'Are you upset about the minutes and the touches?'" Van Gundy said. "And he said, 'I was terrible last night, I've got no problem with what you did last night.' For whatever reason, it wasn't a good night for him. Tomorrow will be better."

That's bad character?
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Stuff...

Post  Oracle on Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:28 pm

@Sparma - You even partially agree with Wise? I'm really curious about that statement, because I don't know where you got "going overboard" praising anybody, unless you call pointing out FACTS as going overboard. Wise doesn't fully read, he reads things into statements because that's what he thinks is factual, I always thought you stuck with the facts!

When I point out the improvement, and follow that up with he hasn't peaked yet, where is the over boarding...! BTW, anybody in their right mind can see that Knight has a long way to go to hit all star levels, silly me for assuming that was a given, and pardon me if others like Goodwill, who also didn't think Knight was a PG is noticing the vast improvement.

BTW, I love the way you observe the stats, but the one stat you're missing is the oldest... that PG's are measured by WINS! It's not always a true way to measure a PG, but it should be factored into the equation!

@Wise - You again miss what's really happening. We didn't just pick players for HYPE reasons, as usual it's more complicated than you see on the surface.

We wasted 4 years by not taking what the NBA gives you... the ability to tank! Joe had some silly ass lofty reason for doing it, but the results were picking a LOT higher than we should have and losing a 1st round pick. Knight, Monroe, Drummond & Dinwiddie! The biggest killer was that we could have had Cousins instead of Monroe if only we had tanked a bit!

So we had to pick based on POTENTIAL, taking what we saw as the best available player, we didn't have any other choice because the choice to NOT tank put us in that position... you're pointing out the wrong thing and it leads to the wrong conclusion!

@Don - Shockingly SVG has been out coached almost every game! It's one thing to get out coached by Pop, but by two near rookie coaches in Kidd & Shaw? It's also disturbing that he assigns blame where it doesn't belong, but that may be a political move, which is also surprising.

SVG was billed as a straight shooter, but so far he's played to personalities and has failed to do the hard things to get this team going. Drummond is coming around, but it's not really coaching, although coaching has helped, it's mostly Augustin starting and alley Ooping to Drummond regularly and the rest of the team following suit.

I guess having Jennings sit allows more players to actually get touches. However, any way you cut it, this team is better off losing Josh and Jennings in some sort of trade. IMO, we could move both together to some starved team for picks and fodder.

I kind of expected SVG to be weak as a GM, but I'm really surprised at how poorly he's coaching. His substitutions are off, he calls timeouts mostly correctly, but at times he doesn't call them to make sure his team knows the value of important possessions. He has me flummoxed, and I don't even know what that is!

@Seb, @DX & @Phillip - Seb, Phillip & DX are leaning in the right direction on this one! The last thing we need is to give away 1st round picks, for this team that's like giving away GOLD!
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BK

Post  Sparma on Sat Nov 29, 2014 4:05 pm

I'm in partial agreement with Wise concerning BK and will say, with him: let's not go overboard in praising him. I'm ambivalent about him. After being over a 2:1 assist to TO ratio earlier this season he's back to a mediocre 1.77 ratio. His Hollinger PER comes in 19th in the league for PGs, a tick behind Stuckey's, and well behind Jennings' (who ranks 8th). As an excellent passer, Calderon's career ratio is better than double BK's ratio during his breakthrough season.

All that said, I'm impressed by his improvement. He's bulked up, making his defensive efforts more effective. He's an outstanding rebounder for a PG and an effective scorer. I agree with Kelser that it looks like his vision's improved as a passer, which is really hard to do. He's got a great attitude and has worked really hard, which bodes well for continued improvement.

BK's gotten every opportunity since day 1, apart from the stretch with Calderon when he needed to play second fiddle. Moving forward, I foresee his opportunities being pinched by a superior passer at some point. I still see his future as either a valuable hybrid player on a contender or as a decent PG on a decent (or bad) team rather than as an outstanding floor general on a good team.

Of more concern for present Piston purposes is whether Jennings can be moved while he's playing well, on a fair contract. I'd prefer to go with the Augustin-Dinwiddie PG duo. I'd like to think that Augustin will get back to his career levels as a shooter soon.
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