Moves

[Grizz2]

That's right Charlie. Show the NBA world what you can do. Play well. Light the 3pt line on fire! Flash some of that low post game just to tease potential buyers.

Then when the Iron is hot, TRADE YOUR ASS!!!!!


Jones Jerebko. Keep working hard. Eventually you will be back in the rotation. Can't keep A good guy down for long.

Same goes for Kim English. Be ready, your opportunity will come.

If Frank had any brains he would bench Will Bynum, let Stuckey play the back-up PG and allow English to back-up Singler at the 2 guard spot. But I guess that's just too much right.

Phillip .. Bynum only played 5 minutes today .. Hoping that is a good sign ... Good to see you stand up for JJ .. actually we do all need to keep the faith in JJ ... who needs to get back on track .. Play him, English Drummond or .. (DBED broken record syndrome) instead of Maguette ...

[WTF]

I don't think I can be completely happy about this win. Having Prince and Maxiell play major minutes just takes away from it even though Knight and Singler played very well. While a vaild case can be made for Prince being a veteran presence you can't make the same case for Maxiell consuming PT Drummond should be getting.

While I'm smiling at the fact that CV has played well in 2 straight games and that's driving Don insane it doesn't smell of a team rebuilding but a team looking to make the playoffs. If I honestly thought this move was a showcasing of CV for a potential trade perhaps I would feel more hopeful about the rebuilding process. I don't like the idea of them playing their way out of the lottery.

[deusXango]

.. really won the game for us today ... and are improving .. giving Frank credit for that .. Still dont want Maguetter .. minus 8 or whatever today .. More Drummond or English is the next move to make ..

Whoa, big hoss! Grizz, if anyone is to get credit for the BK7 and Singler pairing, it's our own Rodney Stuckey. This was a move made out of neccessity (remember When Stuckey returned from IR, Lil' Larry had every intention of returning him to the starting lineup) but, Stuckey was man enough, and I'd like to think, basketball knowledgeable enough to go to his coach and request that Singler continue starting; he did it with class, and without sulking. BK7 and Singler are beginning to jell, and looking better each game; Stuckey is finding his way, and I'm really glad for him. Really! I ripped the man enough for the foolishness of others but, now that he's matured, I like where he seems to be going.

[Grizz2]

.. really won the game for us today ... and are improving .. giving Frank credit for that .. Still dont want Maguetter .. minus 8 or whatever today .. More Drummond or English is the next move to make ..

Whoa, big hoss! Grizz, if anyone is to get credit for the BK7 and Singler pairing, it's our own Rodney Stuckey. This was a move made out of neccessity (remember When Stuckey returned from IR, Lil' Larry had every intention of returning him to the starting lineup) but, Stuckey was man enough, and I'd like to think, basketball knowledgeable enough to go to his coach and request that Singler continue starting; he did it with class, and without sulking. BK7 and Singler are beginning to jell, and looking better each game; Stuckey is finding his way, and I'm really glad for him. Really! I ripped the man enough for the foolishness of others but, now that he's matured, I like where he seems to be going.

DX .. you got me ... on the fact that Singler is starting at all .. You're right ...Frank was fighting this move all the way .. just like he is fighting putting Drummond ahead of Jmax (good god that is ridiculous ) .. But .. if the players improve, such as BK7 and Singler seem to be (actually.. you could argue that this is simply the fact that Singler is around and our backcourt is getting used to one another and has very little to do with Frank) .. on a tactical level ... Frank may be giving them some good mentoring? .. Oh well .. so some young players can improve despite bad coaching .. Good to know!

Yes, I still want Frank fired ... cuz I am a spoiled rotten Piston fan ... It just seems like Frank is the real person here involved in training .. trial and error ... or ... being forced into moves that are good rather than figuring it out on his own .. BUT .... I fear to sound like a KILLJOY .. when we did win the game .. Frank did start using more motion in the offense .. and did go to a 3-guard line up .....Both good things .. CV is going to get a lot of good press propaganda BTW .. I cannot see it leading to a trade .. but it will likely mean less minutes for younger players ..

[Sparma]

Great win. Slow start, but I felt Singler got us going with his passing and running into the space. Pairing Singler with BK creates space on the first unit, as does pairing Stuckey and CV on the second. Couldn't help but be touched by Charlie's sincere declarations of loving to play basketball. I'd rather be seeing Kravtsov be getting his shot, but as far as immediate basketball results go the BK-Singler, Stuckey-CV pairings make a lot of sense. And I do give (some) credit to Frank, also for toning down Bynum's role.

Singler's defense is suspect as a guard (even though he's scrappy and goes for the ball) and his dribble's ordinary for a guard, but he's got an excellent sense of positioning, both in his passes and in where he runs. He makes that first unit much more balanced. Can't see him becoming a star, but he's a superb complementary player who could contribute to any team.

[merc]

Great win. Slow start, but I felt Singler got us going with his passing and running into the space. Pairing Singler with BK creates space on the first unit, as does pairing Stuckey and CV on the second. Couldn't help but be touched by Charlie's sincere declarations of loving to play basketball. I'd rather be seeing Kravtsov be getting his shot, but as far as immediate basketball results go the BK-Singler, Stuckey-CV pairings make a lot of sense. And I do give (some) credit to Frank, also for toning down Bynum's role.

Singler's defense is suspect as a guard (even though he's scrappy and goes for the ball) and his dribble's ordinary for a guard, but he's got an excellent sense of positioning, both in his passes and in where he runs. He makes that first unit much more balanced. Can't see him becoming a star, but he's a superb complementary player who could contribute to any team.

A couple of good points here... Singlers outside shooting has been a pleasant surprise coming from a rookie... if we can get English in the rotation the lanes should definitely open up... as well as cut down the t.o.s (better spacing).
Singler does seem to have difficulty keeping opponent guards in front of him.. best way to combat this is to have Singler post his man and force the mismatch in our favor.
If I'm being honest I think Singler is already outplaying Prince... Tay just doesn't seem to want to play a fast paced game... he's efficient yet still bogging down the offense with his slow deliberate methods.
Not ready to give Singler a full endorsement as our future starting SF but he should at least be worthy of 25+ min as a swingman.

[deusXango]

Sparma (love your new Avatar by the way), I will conceed some credit to Lil' Larry when he pairs Drummond with Monroe; BK7 has Singler (even though you've pointed out some valid shortcomings to his game), and Stuckey and Villanueva both seem to flourishing as a pair coming off the bench but, where is the "paint partner" for Monroe? It's not about lottery or playoffs but, just how good are we if the troops are properly deployed?!

Lil' Larry has removed J.J. from the rotation in favor of CV (giving him what amounts to a pat on the ass and some words of double-talked encouragement), and in doing so, I've noticed that Stuckey is a far better backup PG, than he is a backup SG (mainly because there's no competition for PG that can rival what he brings to the game), and it's making their pairing look like a stroke of genius. My point? It's time to stop being a wimp, and remove the three who are having a kidney stone effect on the rotation (give them the same encouragement you gave J.J.), and give the, as yet, untried young'uns a meaningful place in rotation. Maxiell out, Kravtsov in. Maggette out, Middleton in. Btnum out, English in. All the young'uns coming in are taking up minimal bench PT....what have we to loose? How much will we gain? One thing is certain, the spirit of development will be served, and the freshness of the teams face will encourage the paying customers to brave the oncoming harsh elements to give 'em a look/see.

PG-Knight/Stuckey

SG-Singler/English

SF-Prince/Middleton

PF-Monroe/Villanueva

C-Drummond/Kravstov

It's nothing like having some grizzled veterans ready to come in and play whenever things begin to unravel but, this rotation represents the future (all but Prince), of the franchise, as it stands now; I'm eager to see just what we do have, in potential, and know who can't cut it because of on court performances. It's not too late for chemistry to develop, by adding 3 new bench players, and this team plays it's way into the playoffs....not just back in and be embarrassed but, get in and make some noise. It would be win-win for all concerned; Gores would have his playoff team, Joe would look like the genius a lot of folk think he is (the loss of that 1st round pick won't hurt as much), Lil' Larry will become Mr. Frank (who ever heard of a Coach of The Year candidate named "Lil' Larry"?), and we, the Pistons fans, will be in joyful, utter amazement!

[WTF]

Great win. Slow start, but I felt Singler got us going with his passing and running into the space. Pairing Singler with BK creates space on the first unit, as does pairing Stuckey and CV on the second. Couldn't help but be touched by Charlie's sincere declarations of loving to play basketball. I'd rather be seeing Kravtsov be getting his shot, but as far as immediate basketball results go the BK-Singler, Stuckey-CV pairings make a lot of sense. And I do give (some) credit to Frank, also for toning down Bynum's role.

Singler's defense is suspect as a guard (even though he's scrappy and goes for the ball) and his dribble's ordinary for a guard, but he's got an excellent sense of positioning, both in his passes and in where he runs. He makes that first unit much more balanced. Can't see him becoming a star, but he's a superb complementary player who could contribute to any team.

This is why I've been advocating for CV to play, regardless of what he lacks defensively he spreads the floor offensively and open up lanes for Stuckey.

Sparma I agree I would rather see Kravtsov playing but not at the cost of removing CV out of the rotation. I said before and I'll say it again. JMax needs to ride the pine, and the next move should be starting Drummond and playing Kravtsov with the second unit.

Kudos to Frank on primary using a 3 guard rotation finally.

[deusXango]

Team: Detroit Pistons

Position: C

Age: 19

2012-13 Per-Game Stats: 6.2 points, 5.7 rebounds, 0.4 assists, 1.2 blocks, 0.8 steals, 21.97 PER*



Andre Drummond's offensive development has been hindered in large part by two things: his own rawness on that end of the court and Lawrence Frank's inexplicable unwillingness to give him more minutes. You'd think that Drummond would be playing more, seeing as the Detroit Pistons aren't exactly going to be competing for a playoff spot.

Of course, offense isn't where Drummond is supposed to make the biggest impact, especially when he's taking such care to pick and choose his spots, hence the 57 percent shooting from the field.

Right now, he's already a terror on the boards and an intimidating presence in the paint on defense. Going into Nov. 25's set of games, Drummond's 19.7 total rebounding percentage would have left him trailing just Anderson Varejao, J.J. Hickson, Zach Randolph, Kenneth Faried, Kris Humphries and Omer Asik had he played enough minutes to qualify.

Grade: A+

[deusXango]

Team: Detroit Pistons

Position: SF

Age: 24

2012-13 Per-Game Stats: 9.8 points, 3.2 rebounds, 0.9 assists, 0.7 blocks, 0.3 steals, 12.15 PER*



Kyle Singler was massively inconsistent at the beginning of his delayed rookie season, but he's now rounding into form with back-to-back 16-point performances against the New York Knicks and Portland Trail Blazers.

The former Duke Blue Devil is taking advantage of an increased role with the Detroit Pistons, and if he keeps it up, it won't be one he'll need to relinquish at any point.

Singler's game against the Blazers showed just how valuable he could be one day. The versatile forward recorded 16 points, 10 rebounds, five assists, one block and two steals while hitting six of his seven shots from the field, including all three attempts from downtown.

This wasn't a name many expected to find near the top of the rookie ranks, but he's trending up rather quickly.

Grade: B+

[Sparma]

Thanks for the responses, guys. You make a lot of good points. And thanks for your comments concerning the new avatar, DX. You all are far more creative with the avatars.

I think it's pretty creative to play a college PF at guard, Merc, but I imagine you're right that Singler's ultimately destined for SF. His defensive & dribbling deficiencies would matter less there. It's like we've picked up two productive lottery picks in a single year.

[deusXango]

This is a national consensus of opinion, concerning Singler and Drummond's worth. Don't we need to take the wraps off of English, Middleton, and Kravtsov, so we'll know just how fortunate we are? Can someone give me a logical reason for the foot dragging? I'm not interested in the comapny line, talking head, rhetoric (which contains a very high percentage of bullshit), but rational thought as to why we don't play our rookies. There has never been a point in time when this franchise has had so many unpolished gems, so I can understand reluctance, that's born of fear; to that end I'm gonna ask the faint of heart not respond.

[deusXango]

I think it's pretty creative to play a college PF at guard, Merc, but I imagine you're right that Singler's ultimately destined for SF. His defensive & dribbling deficiencies would matter less there. It's like we've picked up two productive lottery picks in a single year.

Sparma, think "Joe Johnson," and hold your ground. I'm curious (not so much of how Singler's game will develop), to see how our over-sized SG will impact the league going forward. Wasn't the major selling points for Stuckey playing PG was, "he's big, strong, fast, and can over power other PG's?" Well Singler is smart, a high percentage shooter, who is a matchup nightmare for most of the SG's he'll be facing. A SG that can actually shoot (that's your spacing), and use his head, and hit the boards? How soon we forget. Remember Ben Gordon? Remember Iverson? Something a little more recent? What about the "Stuckey experiment?" Yeah, Kyle Singler is the best SG we've had in quite some time, so stick to your guns Sparma. He doesn't have to be an all-star, just a team contributor, like at Duke.

[Sparma]

I agree with the prediction that he'll end up at SF, DX, but I'd advocate that he stay at guard for the foreseeable future, because of the mismatches you mention, the enormous help he provides a developing BK with spacing, and the opportunity he provides Stuckey to be an on the ball guy intent on scoring on the second unit. Eventually, I think coaches will target their Stuckey at him, and his foot quickness will be an issue on defense. In the long run, I think he'll become bigger and slower like most as they mature/ age (with Prince as exception!) and will need to move to SF.

Also, ideally you want a guard to be able to beat people off the dribble consistently. He's got solid on the ball skills; I recall him making a nice cut on the ball in the corner, creating space for a three pointer which he hit. Still, he's got limitations in that area, even compared to the main alternative of Stuckey. I'm sure there are guys in gyms around the country who have superior dribbling skills to most NBA guards, but don't have the speed and strength to make it. The issue isn't dribbling perse, but a combination of skills for which I don't know the right expression -- maybe the capacity to beat someone off the dribble comes closest. AI -- a disaster in Detroit -- had one of the best all-time combinations of skills. With his dribbling, (lack of!) size, quickness, strength for his size, and bodily control, he could consistently make defenders look bad. Stuckey's no AI (who is?), but his combination of ball handling, size, and strength suffices to throw off the balance of defenders consistently. Singler's adequate as ball handler, good enough to create space for himself, but I'd like a more dynamic dribbler at 2. Tradeoffs are needed though (Stuckey's got his own set of limitations!) and Singler's got a valuable set of skills at guard which help that first unit cohere. I like the idea of trying to create mismatches instead of always being the one adjusting to moves made by the other coach (like inserting a small lineup).

[deusXango]

Lately when our guards were beat on the perimeter, it was the end of the world because, there was no interior defense. That's not the case today (if Drummond is deployed with Monroe). Singler can keep the average SG in front of him but, when he can't (this is where the high bball I.Q. comes in), he knows how to channel his man into the middle, where Prince can take a charge, Drummond blocks/alter the shot, or Moose just knocks him on his ass. Singler is very difficult to shoot over because, of his length, and I believe we're putting too much stock in his ballhandling, and not giving him enough credit for his energy and "guts." One things certain, BK7 is playing better, and Stuckey seems satisfied; the two most important guards on the team have become funtional because of this man. Let's keep an open-minded eye on this guy for awhile. Sparma, I still think you got it right about Singler as our SG, even though the temptation is to look for him to replace Prince at SF.

[Phil-Good]

The good thing about Singler is it's not important if he plays 2,3 or 4. He is A High IQ basketball player who knows how to play the right way.

His position now or in the future means ZERO! He's A all around good basketball player!

Happy to have him as A Detroit Piston. Just like A extra first round pick. Great Job by Joe and his staff to draft this kid in the second round..

[Sebastian]

Now, that Singler's value is at its zenith Joe should move Singler, Maxey, and Corey Maggette to the Hawks for Josh Smith and Anthony Morrow.

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

Also move Tay to Portland for a future first round pick. Then, WE roll with:

PG- B. Knight, Stuckey, Will B.
SG- Morrow, English, Middleton
SF- Josh Smith, Jerebko, Daye
PF/C - Moose, Charlie V.
PF/C - Dre Drummond, the Ukraine

[Sparma]

It's a good idea to trade players at the peak of their value, Sebastian. Do you think Singler's about to be exposed or can we expect his value to rise? I won't necessarily oppose trading Singler, but you'd need to be awfully sure Detroit was making a good deal (and my diminished confidence in Joe comes into play there).

Good point about Singler being able to compensate by funneling attackers towards the middle, DX. That adds to the importance of Drummond playing cover defense.

I see your point, Phil1980, but end up in a different place. Until he started, I expected Singler to earn his minutes by filling in at various spots, depending on need. As a starter, I ultimately see him at SF, but maybe his career will instead consist of being a SuperSub.

It does matter where he plays though, especially if he's a starter, first, because it affects the role of less flexible teammates (like Stuckey), secondly, because it largely determines his opponent both on O and D (at the 2, he'll get torched by some speedsters). In addition, considerations about Singler himself make a difference in determining the optimal choice. For instance, I would not want him starting at the position where he's most experienced (PF), not only because I want Monroe there, but also because I don't think he's strong enough to play starter's minutes there.

[cool breeze]

I just watched this game again. Detroit was really up for this game and looked sharp coming out of the gate. Anthony played perfect on the offensive end. Still our Pistons were playing well in the first quarter. I did notice Maxiell make two nice moves to score baskets. However, he was slow to protect the weak side to stop a drive and was called for a foul. Then Anthony blew by Maxiell when Jason took his turn trying to guard him. What is very noticable is that the Pistons have no shot blockers with this starting unit except for Singler who does contest shots. Detroit started to go south at the 4 minute mark when coach Frank substituted Stuckey for Singler. There was an immediate change in a negative way. At this time, Detroit was tied but soon they were down by 4 points and were struggling on both ends. Then with 2 minutes to go in the first quarter coach Frank made his second mistake bringing in Bynum for Knight. It is amazing that coach Frank cannot figure out what is happening after he makes his substitutions. There was a dramatic change in the flow of the offense where Bynum dribbled the basketball from side to side out beyond the 3 point line until there was only about 10 seconds left in the shot clock. This happened on every possession once Bynum entered the game. Then Bynum would pass the basketball into Monroe or Prince who were both doubled with little time left in the shot clock. Then with only a few seconds left in the first quarter Stuckey and Bynum were too relaxed on the inbound pass which was intercepted and NY got a layup to end the quarter. The Pistons were now down big. Now Piston fans, how many times has this same thing been repeated in game after game this year? Why has coach Frank stayed with this substitution pattern making his changes at the exact same moment of almost every game regardless of what is happening on the court? I believe that any good coach should remove Bynum real quick if he changes the tempo of the offense that had been in sinc. Bynum's teammates seem to stand knowing that he will be doing his thing sucking seconds off the shot clock. Teams do not need to press our Pistons to take time off the shot clock. This is what Bynum did while playing for Arizona in college and that is what landed him on the bench causing his transfer. He also couldn't defend anyone or wasn't interested in that part of the game. Now if Frank has a plan to get the Pistons in the playoffs, imagine what their opening round opponent will do to defeat the Pistons. This is a no brainer for an opposing coach. Wait until coach Frank makes his first substitution and then pounce attacking the side Stuckey plays on and then as soon as Bynum enters the game blow the Pistons off the court by going zone because Bynum cannot determine when a team is playing zone. He is dribbling around trying to figure out what to do. Notice how Knight is always in an attacking mode and knows what is going on. Detroit needs a new back up point guard now. New York played smart unlike Portland. Any team can stop this Piston team if they concentrate on their weaknesses. One last point regarding this game. As soon as Drummond entered the game he blocked Anthony's shot when he tried to drive to the hoop. The Pistons have no shot blockers other than Drummond regarding their big men. That is why it is time to introduce "The Russian" to opponents.

[deusXango]

Sebastian, do you really believe that inspite of an upward swing in Singler's production, he's hit his peak and there is no place to go but down? As much as I like the idea of Josh Smith in a Pistons uniform, I ain't for trading Singler, at this point. He brings a lot to the table, and "a bird in hand, is worth two in the bush," sort of thing. I'm not ready to take a look at Anthony Morrow when I don't know that English and Middleton can't cut it. Josh Smith FA signing, if he wants to be here (that's yet to be determined).

PhillipBoy, you said a mouth full with, "he has a high basketball I.Q." and "he's a all around good basketball player." When was the last time we could say that about a Pistons player, and who was he?

Sparma, I'm gonna ask you to be a liiiittle more patient with Singler at SG. I've got the feeling that as time goes on, and he becomes more comfortable at the position, and some plays are designed/called for him, with your knowledge of the game, you will be sold on him as a legit SG. I'm expecting his offensive production to continue on an upward trend, and the better he plays at SG doesn't mean he's auditioning for a shot at SF....he's simply developing as the next "new thing" in basketball. If fans could get their heads around Daye being a SG, then damn! This guy is more than we hoped for.

[WTF]

I think Singler career will end up slightly better than Dan's to say the least, but Singler definitely has the potential to be far better because I think he's more skilled fundamentally. Dan also was a 2 position guy playing the SG and SF positions with the Suns way back when . I can see Singler having years of averaging 16-18 pts.

I wouldn't say he isn't tradeable, but I would be hesitant this early in his career to trade him. Remember this kid was a projected lottery pick his first three years of college. He was definitely a steal when we drafted him.

[WTF]

Some knight Singler will get his ass handed to him no matter what position he plays but the the case with all the players in the league. Some opposing player just simply have you number that why some players are called Super Stars. Singler might get his ass whipped at SG by D-Wade and Kobe or at SF by Melo and Bron but these are Elite Players that kicks everyone ass.

Ideally I would like to see him playing SF, but I think he's smart enough to play SG most games.

[WTF]

Now, that Singler's value is at its zenith Joe should move Singler, Maxey, and Corey Maggette to the Hawks for Josh Smith and Anthony Morrow.

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

Also move Tay to Portland for a future first round pick. Then, WE roll with:

PG- B. Knight, Stuckey, Will B.
SG- Morrow, English, Middleton
SF- Josh Smith, Jerebko, Daye
PF/C - Moose, Charlie V.
PF/C - Dre Drummond, the Ukraine

Sebastian revised this trade to include Austin Daye and his expiring contract and remove Singler.

[Grizz3]

.. is not very likely ... Josh Smith is a star ... C. Maggette is some guy who gets a lot of money but is not a star ... The trade only works if the opposing GM is an absolute idiot ... That NBA trade software needs to include some other important elements like the talent and age of the players ... as well as the degree of smarts of the GMs involved ..... but lets dream on anyway ..

I like Singler .. more than what other GMs will give us .. Smart player .. reminds me of guys who play for the Spurs ... Joe D has made some great picks the past 3 seasons ..

[Oracle]

.. is not very likely ... Josh Smith is a star ... C. Maggette is some guy who gets a lot of money but is not a star ... The trade only works if the opposing GM is an absolute idiot ... That NBA trade software needs to include some other important elements like the talent and age of the players ... as well as the degree of smarts of the GMs involved ..... but lets dream on anyway ..

I like Singler .. more than what other GMs will give us .. Smart player .. reminds me of guys who play for the Spurs ... Joe D has made some great picks the past 3 seasons ..

Look I REALLY like Singler, but I'd trade him in a NY minute to get a real star in here!

The problem, as Grizz has stated, is that no GM in his right mind would make that trade!

So until we can find a mentally disturbed GM to trade with(and there are a few, lol), stuff like that ain't going to work.

[Sponsored content]