Say What ????????

[deusXango]

Year - Min/gm - A/gm - TO - Ass/TO
1 - 11 - 2.1 - 1 - 2.1
2 - 22 - 3.4 - 1.3 - 2.6
3 - 32 - 5.5 - 2.1 - 2.6
4 - 27 - 4.9 - 1.8 - 2.7

Above is the first four years of Steve Nash's career. He didn't reach 8+ assist per game until his 8th year. He first achieved double digit scoring in his 5th year. He has yet to become an average defender.

Judging by the conversations of the last 48 hours one would believe Nash poped out out of Mother Nash dropping double digit dimes with a 5:1 Ass/TO ratio.

Brandon is only 85 games into his career.

I'm just sayin.

Lemon, do I hear you suggesting that we've got a back-to-back league MVP in the making? Just a matter of time? Well, the strangeness of the season continues; through the efforts of Lil' Larry, he's turning the Pistons into a defensive juggernaut (Coach of The Year accolades to follow), Jason Maxiell is turning in a stellar performance (with mediocre numbers, on a team with a mediocre record), and I vote for him to be Most Improved Player this year. Kyle Singler, now get this, who was drafted as a PF but, was looked upon to compete for a SF spot, is now our starting SG; he's the player we always wanted Austin Daye to be! There's a mystery sweeping the nation (the national media types wanna know) as to why Andre Drummond hasn't assumed a starting role as yet, and locally there are murmerings why he's not played more with Monroe (if they're the future of this franchise). Tom Gores halftime show has come onto the floor, and got in the game, in the form of Cory Maggette stumbling around; what did we need Kim English for? We're paying good money for Maggette! Charlie V woke up and.......no. He was just sleep walking. False alarm people.

Let's not stop scratching and searching for a silver lining in this dark cloud hanging over heads (because we don't percieve it, doesn't mean it's not there), and eventually the Palace will fill up, with cheering and adoring fans, we'll make the magical, mythical playoffs (another shot in the foot), and when Joe Dumars explains why he didn't make a trade at the deadline, it'll make sense.

I ain't gonna say it.

[lemonpen]

Year - Min/gm - A/gm - TO - Ass/TO
1 - 11 - 2.1 - 1 - 2.1
2 - 22 - 3.4 - 1.3 - 2.6
3 - 32 - 5.5 - 2.1 - 2.6
4 - 27 - 4.9 - 1.8 - 2.7

Above is the first four years of Steve Nash's career. He didn't reach 8+ assist per game until his 8th year. He first achieved double digit scoring in his 5th year. He has yet to become an average defender.

Judging by the conversations of the last 48 hours one would believe Nash poped out out of Mother Nash dropping double digit dimes with a 5:1 Ass/TO ratio.

Brandon is only 85 games into his career.

I'm just sayin.

Lemon, do I hear you suggesting that we've got a back-to-back league MVP in the making? Just a matter of time? Well, the strangeness of the season continues; through the efforts of Lil' Larry, he's turning the Pistons into a defensive juggernaut (Coach of The Year accolades to follow), Jason Maxiell is turning in a stellar performance (with mediocre numbers, on a team with a mediocre record), and I vote for him to be Most Improved Player this year. Kyle Singler, now get this, who was drafted as a PF but, was looked upon to compete for a SF spot, is now our starting SG; he's the player we always wanted Austin Daye to be! There's a mystery sweeping the nation (the national media types wanna know) as to why Andre Drummond hasn't assumed a starting role as yet, and locally there are murmerings why he's not played more with Monroe (if they're the future of this franchise). Tom Gores halftime show has come onto the floor, and got in the game, in the form of Cory Maggette stumbling around; what did we need Kim English for? We're paying good money for Maggette! Charlie V woke up and.......no. He was just sleep walking. False alarm people.

Let's not stop scratching and searching for a silver lining in this dark cloud hanging over heads (because we don't percieve it, doesn't mean it's not there), and eventually the Palace will fill up, with cheering and adoring fans, we'll make the magical, mythical playoffs (another shot in the foot), and when Joe Dumars explains why he didn't make a trade at the deadline, it'll make sense.

I ain't gonna say it.

Not making any predictions about the career of one BK7. Just sayin it took quite a while for a B2B MVP to reach that level. Matter of fact the data might suggest an elite player isn't always born that way, but can sometimes be made.

[lemonpen]

Year - Min/gm - A/gm - TO - Ass/TO
1 - 11 - 2.1 - 1 - 2.1
2 - 22 - 3.4 - 1.3 - 2.6
3 - 32 - 5.5 - 2.1 - 2.6
4 - 27 - 4.9 - 1.8 - 2.7

Above is the first four years of Steve Nash's career. He didn't reach 8+ assist per game until his 8th year. He first achieved double digit scoring in his 5th year. He has yet to become an average defender.

Judging by the conversations of the last 48 hours one would believe Nash poped out out of Mother Nash dropping double digit dimes with a 5:1 Ass/TO ratio.Brandon is only 85 games into his career.

I'm just sayin.

I smelled this coming miles away. This would probably be relevant if Nash was selected 8th in the first round and tossed into a starting role. Nash wasn't even a starter until his 5th season and though he didn't reach his 8 assist average until year 8 he was a little better than 7 assist and 15pts.

I tell what Nash wasn't doing his rookie year and after, turning over the freaking ball 5 and 6 times a game. Let not down play Nash's early career to help make excuses for Knight's first 85 games. Why not compare Knight with other top 10 picks Rose, Paul, Westbrook or Williams rookie seasons you can at least make a better argument that Knight might be just as good or better as those 4 I just mentioned. Though I'm not all that overly impressed with them either

I won't even mention Rondo who was a 21st selection....just saying

Wise, it is called the toughest position in the game for a good reason. Again, I haven't suggested what BK7 will / may become. The point is, for some it takes time to get it and Nash is a valid case in point. For the record, Knight is no worse in A to TO ratio this year than last. What I would look for is a rising trend as the season progresses and he continues with the higher paced offense.

[deusXango]

[quote="lemonpen
Not making any predictions about the career of one BK7. Just sayin it took quite a while for a B2B MVP to reach that level. Matter of fact the data might suggest an elite player isn't always born that way, but can sometimes be made.
[/quote]

Lemon, I agree 100% with that statement. The history of the league is littered with players who far exceeded their expectations, and many of them didn't come into the NBA tearing it up either. I really, really am pulling for BK7, and eager to see what type elite player (they're all different) he becomes.

I'm just sayin'.

[Oracle]

Wise, it is called the toughest position in the game for a good reason. Again, I haven't suggested what BK7 will / may become. The point is, for some it takes time to get it and Nash is a valid case in point. For the record, Knight is no worse in A to TO ratio this year than last. What I would look for is a rising trend as the season progresses and he continues with the higher paced offense.

What? You didn't suggest?

Come on lemonpen, the whole purpose of that post was to make that suggestion, using Nash as evidence.

Wise shot a hole in it a mile wide based on the foundation of your argument.

While I don't like the Nash comparison from either end, I totally agree with you that the most important, if not all of what we're seeing wrong in knight's game can be learned.

As I mentioned, the kid is very bright, and coupled with the fact that he's a hard worker and committed, bodes well for the team.

[Oracle]

Oh, it's a contract year, and that explains his production.

Well, excuse me, we can take that performance and throw it into the trash, it doesn't count. Let's petition the NBA to erase his stats, or at least put an asterisk next to them, because they're tainted!

Are you guys effing kidding me???

Who cares what the incentive is? If you didn't have an incentive, you wouldn't get up and go to work every day, so should we not credit you for that?

WTF are laws in a society for? To give you an incentive to NOT break them! So law abiding citizens don't get credit because their only incentive is not going to jail?

Let's get real! Performance is performance, and some guys can attempt to perform well, and never succeed!

I suppose if he saved the world, but it was in a contract year, you'd rather just bend over and kiss your ass goodbye?

Come on guys, what does a player have to do to get some respect that they've already earned?

[deusXango]

*I want Lil' Larry gone, just not now. Maybe by seasons end I will have changed (but I doubt it).

Maxiell can start for the remainder of the season, just don't re-sign him after the season ends. I don't think he'd take the same money if he continues to start.

I'm for storming the Palace if Dumars doesn't make a blockbuster trade by the trade deadline. We really aren't that far from contending (personel wise), and Joe's a reckless spender; I'd rather have him trade than sign FA's.

Can't wait for the embarrassements of the team to be gone (Bynum, Daye, Villanueva, and by proxey, Maggette). Sorry for the neccessary departure of Prince, Maxiell, and Jerebko; they gave it their all but, we need the upgrades they can provide with their absence.

I want Joe to re-grow some balls, to replace the ones that fell off, and be the GM of old. Joe was a "Bad Boy" and I'll always love him for that; that's where it started for me after suffering through the Cobo Hall days.

*I want the coaching change because that means a change in the coaching regime; our youth deserves better than who their working with now to achieve maximum development. I want to see Monroe, Drummond, Knight, Singler, English, Middleton, Stuckey, and Kravtsov under the tutledge of an elite level coaching mind, who can find some stability in the head coaching chair; these players with the fruits of a blockbuster trade will have us back where we belong. Enough with the "sticking in your thumb, to pull out a plum," style coach search; Joe knows who is on the elite level, and available.

[WTF]

Oh, it's a contract year, and that explains his production.

Well, excuse me, we can take that performance and throw it into the trash, it doesn't count. Let's petition the NBA to erase his stats, or at least put an asterisk next to them, because they're tainted!

Are you guys effing kidding me???

Who cares what the incentive is? If you didn't have an incentive, you wouldn't get up and go to work every day, so should we not credit you for that?
WTF are laws in a society for? To give you an incentive to NOT break them! So law abiding citizens don't get credit because their only incentive is not going to jail?

Let's get real! Performance is performance, and some guys can attempt to perform well, and never succeed!I suppose if he saved the world, but it was in a contract year, you'd rather just bend over and kiss your ass goodbye?

Come on guys, what does a player have to do to get some respect that they've already earned?

Oracle I get what you're saying but a NBA contract shouldn't be rewarded based on a single season and neither should one season define the first 8 season of his subpar career. Yes we should care if being motivate means only during a contract season. I would hope that the rest of us take or jobs more seriously than Maxiell takes his. As far as I'm concern he still owes us 8 seasons of what he's giving us now.

[deusXango]

Oh, it's a contract year, and that explains his production.

Well, excuse me, we can take that performance and throw it into the trash, it doesn't count. Let's petition the NBA to erase his stats, or at least put an asterisk next to them, because they're tainted!

Are you guys effing kidding me???

Who cares what the incentive is? If you didn't have an incentive, you wouldn't get up and go to work every day, so should we not credit you for that?

WTF are laws in a society for? To give you an incentive to NOT break them! So law abiding citizens don't get credit because their only incentive is not going to jail?

Let's get real! Performance is performance, and some guys can attempt to perform well, and never succeed!

I suppose if he saved the world, but it was in a contract year, you'd rather just bend over and kiss your ass goodbye?

Come on guys, what does a player have to do to get some respect that they've already earned?

Oracle, I get the point that you're giving credit where credit is due...right here, right now. Noble, but not entirely fair to those of us who are kicking. Useing your analogy about the incentive to work (professional basketball is a job), everyone who has a job, doesn't do the job they're paid to do, unless put under duress to do so.

I was a civil servant by trade, and worked with professionals who had familys to provide for, life's expenses to consider, and ongoing expenses of employment to be met; great incentives to give your best on a job that you were fortunate to have but, there were those who wasted time, were content to allow their workloads to fall on their co-workers, left early for lunch and came back late (same as showing up to training camp way over-weight). They showed up on time for meetings, had decent input, and were very personable sorts. They made training sessions to upgrade their skills, and performed well; outside of their laziness, they were well liked.

What I'm saying is, the spirit of everyday, ongoing competiveness has not been demonstrated by Maxey, and a lot of us know it. He's like the lazy civil servant who wants to be paid for the occasional meeting, where he shows out, and a glowing personality but, the job calls for much more. He hasn't pulled his weight, and if given a chance (new contract), he may revert to past practices. Most of us know that type from on hand experience.

[lemonpen]

Wise, it is called the toughest position in the game for a good reason. Again, I haven't suggested what BK7 will / may become. The point is, for some it takes time to get it and Nash is a valid case in point. For the record, Knight is no worse in A to TO ratio this year than last. What I would look for is a rising trend as the season progresses and he continues with the higher paced offense.

What? You didn't suggest?

Come on lemonpen, the whole purpose of that post was to make that suggestion, using Nash as evidence.

Wise shot a hole in it a mile wide based on the foundation of your argument.

While I don't like the Nash comparison from either end, I totally agree with you that the most important, if not all of what we're seeing wrong in knight's game can be learned.

As I mentioned, the kid is very bright, and coupled with the fact that he's a hard worker and committed, bodes well for the team.

I'm not certain where and how I made any claims as to what BK7 would become. I have repeatedly and only tried to make the point that it takes time to assess the direction Brandon will go as a PG.
Wise, in his counter point suggested I might find a more relevant comparison between BK7 and someone like Westboook. Too bad Wise didn't look first. After 82 games BK7 and Westbrook are damn near identical in assists/gm, TO/game, ass/TO ratio, and scoring. And, Westboook's A/TO ratio hasn't improved much since year 1.

[WTF]

The most important item lemonpen didn't mention about Nash is the 3 PG's (Kevin, Jason and Wesley) he had in front of him in Phoenix for 2 seasons. I mean really did you even expected Nash to see any PT his rookie season or second season. Do you realize who the coach (Danny Ainge) was on this team that actually use to suit up and practice with the team?

By the time Nash was traded to Dallas he obtain the knowledge of some of the premier PG's (Danny Ainge, Kevin Johnson, Jason Kidd and Wesley Person) in the game. There is no surprise that Nash game elevated to elite status. The real concern with Knight is that he has none of this to guide him and many are expecting some light to click on over time and he'll have it all figured out.

To put this in perspective, Zeke would be coach, Chauncey would still be on the team teaching Knight the in's and out in the life of a PG. Who on the team is teaching this kid to play PG?

[lemonpen]

Oh, it's a contract year, and that explains his production.

Well, excuse me, we can take that performance and throw it into the trash, it doesn't count. Let's petition the NBA to erase his stats, or at least put an asterisk next to them, because they're tainted!

Are you guys effing kidding me???

Who cares what the incentive is? If you didn't have an incentive, you wouldn't get up and go to work every day, so should we not credit you for that?

WTF are laws in a society for? To give you an incentive to NOT break them! So law abiding citizens don't get credit because their only incentive is not going to jail?

Let's get real! Performance is performance, and some guys can attempt to perform well, and never succeed!

I suppose if he saved the world, but it was in a contract year, you'd rather just bend over and kiss your ass goodbye?

Come on guys, what does a player have to do to get some respect that they've already earned?

You get up on the wrong side of the bed or something? Now you have to admit there is a strong trend in virtually all of paid sports that guys perform WAY better in a contract year. How many instances have there been where guys become a disruption when PT is altered while in that situation. I agree Max is flat out balling. But, starters earn more and AD is breathing down his back.

[WTF]

Wise, it is called the toughest position in the game for a good reason. Again, I haven't suggested what BK7 will / may become. The point is, for some it takes time to get it and Nash is a valid case in point. For the record, Knight is no worse in A to TO ratio this year than last. What I would look for is a rising trend as the season progresses and he continues with the higher paced offense.

What? You didn't suggest?

Come on lemonpen, the whole purpose of that post was to make that suggestion, using Nash as evidence.

Wise shot a hole in it a mile wide based on the foundation of your argument.

While I don't like the Nash comparison from either end, I totally agree with you that the most important, if not all of what we're seeing wrong in knight's game can be learned.

As I mentioned, the kid is very bright, and coupled with the fact that he's a hard worker and committed, bodes well for the team.

I'm not certain where and how I made any claims as to what BK7 would become. I have repeatedly and only tried to make the point that it takes time to assess the direction Brandon will go as a PG.
Wise, in his counter point suggested I might find a more relevant comparison between BK7 and someone like Westboook. Too bad Wise didn't look first. After 82 games BK7 and Westbrook are damn near identical in assists/gm, TO/game, ass/TO ratio, and scoring. And, Westboook's A/TO ratio hasn't improved much since year 1.

And Knight stats are comparable to Westbrook, Paul, and Rose and exceeded Wiiliams rookie numbers. Personally I would'nt want their asses on our team turning the ball over and jacking up 25 shots either. I would much rather have Rondo over all of them including Knight and Rondo turn the ball over just as much and can't buy FT's most night.

[deusXango]

To put this in perspective, Zeke would be coach, Chauncey would still be on the team teaching Knight the in's and out in the life of a PG. Who on the team is teaching this kid to play PG?

Stuckey said he had him under his wing, then there's Will "the Thrill" Bynum. Lil' Larry, who's never played college or pro, has rubbed elbows with some of the best, and that should be enough.

Wise, I feel you, man. This kid's up against a lot to succeed in this league, under the present circumstances but, I forget; we're heavy into knucklehead practices, with our players. Look at Drummond. The only rookie from this years draft to get any PT, and look at how it's doled out.

Our FA, not playing. Our 2nd rounders, not playing. The ugly part is none of them are slated to go play in the D-league. What they probably have coming is a years salary, the best seat in the house for games, they get to travel with a pro team, and then, "bye, bye." BK7 is lucky to be playing.

[Oracle]

You get up on the wrong side of the bed or something? Now you have to admit there is a strong trend in virtually all of paid sports that guys perform WAY better in a contract year. How many instances have there been where guys become a disruption when PT is altered while in that situation. I agree Max is flat out balling. But, starters earn more and AD is breathing down his back.

It's fair to say he's been stealing money from us for years. It's also fair to say trade his arse ASAP because his stock is probably as high as its ever going to get(my position).

But it's unfair to not give him credit for his actual performance, which is what you just did, and I salute you for that.

Starters do make more money, but not in under the contract they're playing on, so Maxiell can't get more money, and I can't envision any team(except us) that would start him in this NBA.

Sorry if I took this too seriously, but contract year or not, I really appreciate and love to see that level of hard work pay off, and BTW, it's VERY entertaining!

[WTF]

I'll trade Knight and Stuckey for Rondo right now today. Then I'll trade for Josh Smith and my new line would be :

PG: Rondo
SG: English
SF: Josh
PF: Moose
C: Andre
Bench: CV, Singler, Krastsov, and Tay's sorry ass...


Okay dream is over

[deusXango]

I'll trade Knight and Stuckey for Rondo right now today. Then I'll trade for Josh Smith and my new line would be :

PG: Rondo
SG: English
SF: Josh
PF: Moose
C: Andre
Bench: CV, Singler, Krastsov, and Tay's sorry ass...
[Only admins are allowed to see this image]

Okay dream is over

Yea.

[Sebastian]

I'll trade Knight and Stuckey for Rondo right now today. Then I'll trade for Josh Smith and my new line would be :

PG: Rondo
SG: English
SF: Josh
PF: Moose
C: Andre
Bench: CV, Singler, Krastsov, and Tay's sorry ass...


Okay dream is over

Wise, before you awake from your nap: How do WE acquire Josh Smith?

I do like the proposition.

[Oracle]

What Wise is saying goes WAY beyond a simple dream of a trade, and it's actually something I think that we as fans need to come to grips with.

That simple suggestion of trading Stuckey & Knight speaks volumes about who and what is really the cornerstones and future of this club truly are!

Wise in essence is saying that while Knight is one possible future, Monroe & Drummond are the key pieces we need to build around!

At this point, it's hard to argue that that isn't the case! It's a much harder task to get both a great PF AND a great center than it is to get a good guard.

I'm REALLY interested in what you guys think about this!

[deusXango]

What Wise is saying goes WAY beyond a simple dream of a trade, and it's actually something I think that we as fans need to come to grips with.

That simple suggestion of trading Stuckey & Knight speaks volumes about who and what is really the cornerstones and future of this club truly are!

Wise in essence is saying that while Knight is one possible future, Monroe & Drummond are the key pieces we need to build around!

At this point, it's hard to argue that that isn't the case! It's a much harder task to get both a great PF AND a great center than it is to get a good guard.

I'm REALLY interested in what you guys think about this!

Oracle, with the exception of Monroe, Drummond, and Singler (we need a "glue guy"), I'd trade the whole damn roster for Rondo and Smith. There's no way, that with a few complimentary pieces, we wouldn't be in the playoffs. I agree that Moose and Drummond are the keys to the future, and SG's are a dime a dozen today (the college ranks and on the pro level, there's an overflow of SG's).

[Sparma]

Yes, they are the two cornerstones. I hope Knight will be one as well, but his future as a plus point NBAer is iffy. I'm not shortchanging point guards at all. If we had Kyrie Irving and Monroe, I'd say they'd be the two cornerstones, because Drummond's future is also real tough to predict. Even if Drummond stays where he is, he'd be a solid lottery pick as a special weapon as blocker and rebounder. And I expect Drummond to improve substantially in at least two areas: strength and free throw shooting (even becoming pretty bad would be an improvement over the current rain of clankers). Beyond that, it's not that hard to envision him as the best offensive rebounder in the league, as Kelser projected. If Knight stays where he is, he's easily replaceable by a journeyman point who doesn't get to the basket as much but distributes better and turns over less. I'm not ready to give up on Knight at 21, but there's cause for concern. I agree that he's a smart guy, Oracle, but he often plays dumb. I guess high GPAs don't necessarily translate into heady NBA point play. That said, I see him making it to the Jason Terry level (mentioned at PP) at least, which is worth a (lesser?) cornerstone.

[cool breeze]

Yes, they are the two cornerstones. I hope Knight will be one as well, but his future as a plus point NBAer is iffy. I'm not shortchanging point guards at all. If we had Kyrie Irving and Monroe, I'd say they'd be the two cornerstones, because Drummond's future is also real tough to predict. Even if Drummond stays where he is, he'd be a solid lottery pick as a special weapon as blocker and rebounder. And I expect Drummond to improve substantially in at least two areas: strength and free throw shooting (even becoming pretty bad would be an improvement over the current rain of clankers). Beyond that, it's not that hard to envision him as the best offensive rebounder in the league, as Kelser projected. If Knight stays where he is, he's easily replaceable by a journeyman point who doesn't get to the basket as much but distributes better and turns over less. I'm not ready to give up on Knight at 21, but there's cause for concern. I agree that he's a smart guy, Oracle, but he often plays dumb. I guess high GPAs don't necessarily translate into heady NBA point play. That said, I see him making it to the Jason Terry level (mentioned at PP) at least, which is worth a (lesser?) cornerstone.

Sparma I respectfully disagree with your assessment of Brandon Knight. I believe he will become a premier point guard in the league. Right now he is in a difficult situation as he is being asked to push the basketball and be in the attack mode all the time. The coaching staff wants this team to increase the tempo of the offense. However, Brandon doesn't have many of those players who can play at a fast pace. Singler, Prince, Stuckey like it. However, Monroe, Maxiell, Maggette, and Charlie V are not the kind of basketball players who can play at a fast pace and still play effective defense. When Drummond gets in his best game shape he will enjoy the fast paced game. This is a tough thing to ask for a guy who should be a junior in college. Everyone within the Piston organization is calling this kid The Franchise. The coaching staff noticed he was a special player early last season. I love to watch him play ball and know it is only a matter of time before he becomes a low turnover type player, a good defensive player, a great passer and distributor and shooter. I haven't liked Piston guards for a long time and that includes Richard Hamilton. Isiah, Billups, Dumars were quality players but that is where it ends with me. I believe that Hamilton doesn't fit in because he was always the weak link on defense and was never an effective passer. I think the Pistons are finally on the right track with smart young players who are learning the hard way right now. I am still sick about how so many fans kept writing about how stupid it was for the Pistons to have drafted Affalo and they never seemed to care when he was given away by Joe Dumars. If Detroit had Affalo right now, you can bet this team would have a winning record. But so many are quick to pull the trigger on Piston players who in my mind have a huge upside and could bring the Pistons a championship if they stay together. Detroit does not need guys like Maggette. He should not get a minute of playing time. And Charlie V has now had two bad performances in a row. He hurts the team with his poor defense and lack of rebounding ability when he makes shots. However, when he cannot even come close with his shots, he makes for a horrible teammate. Last night Drummond should have been MVP for his performance while having to play with Charlie. He held the Piston team together in the 3rd quarter with his energy and hustle while blocking shots and being a monster on the boards. Drummond didn't have anything left towards the end of that game and had a difficult time running the court. But he is a game changer but like Knight, needs time to become the player fans like you can respect. Make you judgment on the players after the season is over. You might be surprised.

[Sebastian]

Earlier, today, an APB, Amber Alert, and Silver Alert were broadcast in search of Jonas Jerebko. Has anyone seen the Piston Forward?

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[deusXango]

Don, the question put forth by Oracle was, what were our thoughts on building the team around Monroe and Drummond. No one was bashing Knight, other than the fact a couple of us were willing to trade him and Stuckey for Rajon Rondo. That's not a bash but, rather a common sense move, if it could be made. Please don't put Dumars mad misjudgements of talent, based on stubborness and "man love" for Stuckey, on the posters; the majority of us were as dumbfounded as you about that Afflalo giveaway.

I personally believe Drummond will mature into an elite level basketball player before Knight does. He certainly will have a greater impact on the game for us.

[Sebastian]

Wise's suggestion to trade B. Knight and Stuckey for Rondo would be the sort of move that Joe would've done 8 years ago when he was a viral and aggressive GM, but damn it is certainly the sort of move that he should do, today.

In conjunction with moving: Maggette, Daye, Singler to the Hawks for Josh Smith and Anthony Morrow.

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