Reliving the Past

[WTF]

Yeah Right!!! Frank why do you think Rick, LB and Flip got fired? For not playing Tay, Darko and Amir

I think Carlisle got fired because he pissed of Mr. Davidson, and Davidson wanted to hire Larry Brown.

I think Brown got fired because he pissed off Davidson by looking around for new jobs.

And Flip got fired because he couldn't get the Pistons to elevate their game in the playoffs, when they lost to an inferior Heat team in 06, an inferior Cavs team in 07, and the Celtics in 08.

In hindsight, however, it does seem odd that all three of those coaches would have been fired after turning the winning records that they did.

Murph I don't think it was one single reason each of these coaches got fired and I agree with your assessments as perhaps the major reason. Joe was pissed to no end that Rick wouldn't play Tay as much he wanted and even many fans were bother by that. Though LB was an ass-hole Joe had to eat crow as LB often criticized the Darko selection to the media well Joe had to find ways to spin his reasons for not selecting Melo. LB was never on board with that selection and was becoming a public relation nightmare all around. Flip was scape-goated as he was doomed from the day he was hired. Flip would not embrace Maxiell, Amir and Delfino and Darko as being reliable and insisted playing his top 7 more times than not. You may not agree with this but those Flip coach teams were drained by the time they got the ECF. No one ever blames Joe for not addressing the bench issues Flip had. Lets not foregt either that his assistant were all hand picked by Joe and ultimately Joe tossed him under the bus.

[Murph]

Oracle...I agree. That is a stupid and inaccurate statement by Lil Larry.

An example of a team that is both winning and developing not 1 but 2 rookies is Golden State. Golden State is currently 11-7 (after last night's win), even though they're starting and developing Harrison Barnes and Festus Ezeli.

Lil Larry...what the Hell are you talking about?

[Grizz2]

I couldn't help myself Grizz

Cynic . we need a healthy doze of entertainment .. I actually am not as angry a person as I sound most of the time ..

I best be prepared to take it if I am dishing it out ..

[Grizz2]

Player Age GS FG% FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
Andre Drummond 19 0 0.567 4.2 0.39 5.8 7.5 13.3 0.9 1.6 2.7 1.7 3.9 13
Jason Maxiell 29 20 0.504 3.2 0.702 2.4 6.4 8.7 0.9 0.5 2.1 1.8 3.2 11.6

[WTF]

Oracle...I agree. That is a stupid and inaccurate statement by Lil Larry.

An example of a team that is both winning and developing not 1 but 2 rookies is Golden State. Golden State is currently 11-7 (after last night's win), even though they're starting and developing Harrison Barnes and Festus Ezeli.

Lil Larry...what the Hell are you talking about?

This is why I gripe so freaking much, its this ignorant and ass backward approach this organization takes toward the whole idea of rebuilding developing players. Clearly with that comment by Frank its clear a true rebuild isn't what the Joe and Gores has in mind.

What this also say's is that there will likely not be any additional player movement so we can kiss any ideas of trades good-bye. If Frank thinks he can get wins by giving the bulk of PT to Tay, Maxiell, CV and Maggette then this is what he'll do for the remainder of the season. It would seem that Gores idea of this team being in the playoffs has push Lil Larry and Joe further into insanity.

Wonder if Gores ever seen a half empty arena during the post season....

[WTF]

I couldn't help myself Grizz

Cynic . we need a healthy doze of entertainment .. I actually am not as angry a person as I sound most of the time ..

I best be prepared to take it if I am dishing it out ..

Yeah I miss my co-writer Flydog!!!! though on this one.

[Murph]

You know what trade should go into the same category as the "Billups for Iverson" trade, or the "Afflalo for nothing" trade?...the "Ben Gordon and a 1st rounder for Corey Maggette" trade.

Gordon is having a good year and making a solid contribution off the bench for Charlotte. Corey Maggette?...not so much. And then when you consider the 1st round draft choice...geesh.

Seriously, that's one of the worst trades Dumars has ever pulled off. Michael Jordan picked Joe's pocket, once again.

[deusXango]

Oracle...I agree. That is a stupid and inaccurate statement by Lil Larry.

An example of a team that is both winning and developing not 1 but 2 rookies is Golden State. Golden State is currently 11-7 (after last night's win), even though they're starting and developing Harrison Barnes and Festus Ezeli.

Lil Larry...what the Hell are you talking about?

Oracle, Murph, the inaccuracies uttered by Lil' Larry are based on his extraordinary, and highly developed ability to babble. Lil' Larry, Master Babbler. The problem is, if you talk sh!t, you think sh!t; the integrity displayed by the man, unfortunately, is his actions match his thoughts and words.

Murph, you've made the most damning observation of Lil' Larry's inability to coach this team by comparing him (a seasoned coach), to Mark Jackson (a "rookie" coach, learning the ropes); Jackson is getting more done with (arguebly) less talent, and it's all about the deployment of talent. I refuse to believe that Barnes and Ezeli are better than Drummond and Singler. I also believe that Lil' Larry spends too much time trying to be recognized as a head coach (wallowing in the position), and not enough time being a coach. Why else would we be reading that "he's learning to coach this team, as the youngsters develop?" Three coaching trainees in a row?! Out of the last three coaches, Lil' Larry is the only one with substantial experience but, he talks more sh!t than Curry did, and is demonstatively more confused than Kuester. Whoever is responsible for his hire should be willing to bite the bullet and fire his ass.

Am I the only one that noticed that the camera angles can no longer disquise the fact the Palace is damn near empty for games? The fans that're there are gathered in the seats behind the baskets (for free throw shots) but, the mid-court seats are almost totally empty; the upper decks and "nose bleed" section are completely empty. What's it going to look like when the snow falls, and the temp. drops below freezing? Who wants to see a boring team (at premium costs)?

We are lacking leadership on every level; owner is not taking anyone to task, GM/management team is not being proactive in acquiring essential pieces (no salary dumps, no draft picks, no floor general), coach is not making sensible decisions, and where is the positive locker room influence? We don't have a floor general (I don't care what anyone says)!!!

[WTF]

[Am I the only one that noticed that the camera angles can no longer disquise the fact the Palace is damn near empty for games? The fans that're there are gathered in the seats behind the baskets (for free throw shots) but, the mid-court seats are almost totally empty; the upper decks and "nose bleed" section are completely empty. What's it going to look like when the snow falls, and the temp. drops below freezing? Who wants to see a boring team (at premium costs)?

Twice I have seen this up close and personal at the 2 games I attended so far, it's really a sad sight to see. All the camera trickery in the world can't hide. Attendees are apparently instructed to push people into seats by halftime and these aren't die hard fans at these games.

[Sparma]

Weird comment by Frank about not being able to win and develop players at the same time. If I were the owner, that comment alone would be enough for me to lose confidence in him as the right coach for this roster.

Still, although I'm not a Frank fan, I think he can be given some credit for a surprisingly long list of things:

-- Change the dynamic of the starting unit by starting a college PF at SG, a creative move (I realize some claim Stuckey should be given the credit).
-- Find the right role for Stuckey off the bench, on the ball and attacking the basket.
-- Burying Bynum on the bench, as badly as he's been playing.
--Instill some defensive organization and intensity on a regular basis.
-- Gradually increase the role of Drummond.
-- Run more of the offense through Monroe (during the course of Frank's tenure).
-- Create some spacing on the second unit by resurrecting Villanueva to play alongside Stuckey.
-- Give Knight every opportunity to develop, in spite of some rocky interim results.
-- Maintain a semblance of team spirit on a team not that far removed from mutiny (admittedly with a partially different cast of characters).

[Sebastian]

Would any of you do the following trade?

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[WTF]

Would any of you do the following trade?

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

Please explain the purpose of this trade, what are we gaining here. We won't have a PG and we're not gaining one.

[WTF]

Man I'm a little bummed with the passing of Dave Brubeck. I know the kiddies have no idea who Brubeck is and what he meant to the jazz culture. I can recall in my early youthfulness not even a teenager yet playing those imaginary drums mimicking each beat from "Take Five" not even then realizing that song was 20 years before that moment.

I have ever version of Take Five from Benson to Washington and everyone in between. I love Jazz. I love that song because it's timeless and last forever. I can only imagine that in another 53 years that song will still sound as new and fresh as it did the first time I've heard or 53 years ago when Brubeck first performed it.

But I liked Brubeck for other things beside his music, like being the first of only a few to have a black musician in his band, and his political stance against racism, poverty, amongst others cultural divides.

[lemonpen]

Is killing us, but while it hurts, I can live with it.

I can see that BK7 is going to be really good once he "Gets It", but he could make me feel a lot better if he didn't keep doing the same things wrong so much.

Drummond is just special folks! For a rookie to play the way he does, all but guarantees that the upside on him is HUGE!!!

Knight & Monroe had 4 turns each, only 2 turns short of what the entire opposing team committed... not good.

Stuckey recovered and had a very good game with 17pts & 9 assists.

however, Prince was the star, I guess there's a few more screws left in that can, 24pts & 5 assists.

I felt that after the first half that the Warrors were just a better team, and expected a loss somewhat close in score, but not really that close in reality.

They've got good experience in the SKILL position, and we're pretty green in the SKILL positions, and that spells a loss in close games. Our Chauncey led Pistons feasted on teams just like we are now!

That about sums it up.
One difference that really stood out to me was their ability (our inability) to shoot accurately off of the dribble. Having so many stand still shooters really puts pressure on our ball movement.

[WTF]

Is killing us, but while it hurts, I can live with it.

I can see that BK7 is going to be really good once he "Gets It", but he could make me feel a lot better if he didn't keep doing the same things wrong so much.

Drummond is just special folks! For a rookie to play the way he does, all but guarantees that the upside on him is HUGE!!!

Knight & Monroe had 4 turns each, only 2 turns short of what the entire opposing team committed... not good.

Stuckey recovered and had a very good game with 17pts & 9 assists.

however, Prince was the star, I guess there's a few more screws left in that can, 24pts & 5 assists.

I felt that after the first half that the Warrors were just a better team, and expected a loss somewhat close in score, but not really that close in reality.

They've got good experience in the SKILL position, and we're pretty green in the SKILL positions, and that spells a loss in close games. Our Chauncey led Pistons feasted on teams just like we are now!

That about sums it up.
One difference that really stood out to me was their ability (our inability) to shoot accurately off of the dribble. Having so many stand still shooters really puts pressure on our ball movement.

We use to have 2 players like the that (Rip and Affalo)

[WTF]

The praise keeps rolling in for Pistons rookie center Andre Drummond -- adding fuel to fans' desire to see him more.

ESPN.com NBA analyst Chad Ford was asked about Drummond during an online chat, and his praise was strong.

He wrote: "He has physical tools that very few NBA players have. For his size, he moves as well laterally as any big I've ever seen. The question, coming into the draft, was about his motor, his passion for the game and his poor production as a freshman at UConn. He's exceeded everyone's expectations in his rookie year. If he keeps up this learning curve, the Pistons will have one of the best frontcourts in the NBA in a couple of years."

So with that kind of analysis, it's understandable that the fan base wants to see more of Drummond.

[lemonpen]

I tell you Goodwill is rounding out into a much better reporter!

In this article Frank makes this statement,

"Just because you throw a guy out there for 30 minutes, that could be the worst thing you could do because it could reinforce all the bad habits," Frank said. "If he's not doing what he should be doing, how can you look at the guys in your locker room and say you're about the right things? You can't both develop players and try to win."

Say What???

Frank, IMO, just admitted that he can't chew bubble gum and coach at the same time!

I can't believe he said that, but read the article for yourself!

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

BTW, if wins come first, tell me.... How's that working for ya Frank?

Every coach is under pressure to win, regardless of circumstance. Coaches are always in a tough spot when dealing with the combination of youth and experience. LF has benched two guys for not quite being about the right things (JJ & WillieB).
BUT, the time is drawing near when AD is gonna have to be accorded the BK7 & GMoney treatment of being allowed to play through growing pains because his pluses are outweighing the minuses. Twenty games have passed and AD has recorded a string of dominant appearances over competition that includes NBA starters.

[deusXango]

Man I'm a little bummed with the passing of Dave Brubeck. I know the kiddies have no idea who Brubeck is and what he meant to the jazz culture. I can recall in my early youthfulness not even a teenager yet playing those imaginary drums mimicking each beat from "Take Five" not even then realizing that song was 20 years before that moment.

I have ever version of Take Five from Benson to Washington and everyone in between. I love Jazz. I love that song because it's timeless and last forever. I can only imagine that in another 53 years that song will still sound as new and fresh as it did the first time I've heard or 53 years ago when Brubeck first performed it.

But I liked Brubeck for other things beside his music, like being the first of only a few to have a black musician in his band, and his political stance against racism, poverty, amongst others cultural divides.

Careful Wise, your decency is showing. Class and culture is okay but, it gets bloody in here, so keep your decency tucked in.

[Sebastian]

Would any of you do the following trade?

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

Please explain the purpose of this trade, what are we gaining here. We won't have a PG and we're not gaining one.

Heck, let's throw in Singler for good measure.

But, really Wise, you're right not much gained, here, but potentially a SG (Tyreke) and Stuckey gets back his starting PG position.

Truthfully, I like B. Knight and think that he is a keeper, especially if Joe hires a real coach, like Zeke.

I was just checking to see how others feel.

[WTF]

Man I'm a little bummed with the passing of Dave Brubeck. I know the kiddies have no idea who Brubeck is and what he meant to the jazz culture. I can recall in my early youthfulness not even a teenager yet playing those imaginary drums mimicking each beat from "Take Five" not even then realizing that song was 20 years before that moment.

I have ever version of Take Five from Benson to Washington and everyone in between. I love Jazz. I love that song because it's timeless and last forever. I can only imagine that in another 53 years that song will still sound as new and fresh as it did the first time I've heard or 53 years ago when Brubeck first performed it.

But I liked Brubeck for other things beside his music, like being the first of only a few to have a black musician in his band, and his political stance against racism, poverty, amongst others cultural divides.

Careful Wise, your decency is showing. Class and culture is okay but, it gets bloody in here, so keep your decency tucked in.

Yeah Sour Pee Boy already think I'm a wuss.

[Grizz2]

You know what trade should go into the same category as the "Billups for Iverson" trade, or the "Afflalo for nothing" trade?...the "Ben Gordon and a 1st rounder for Corey Maggette" trade.

Gordon is having a good year and making a solid contribution off the bench for Charlotte. Corey Maggette?...not so much. And then when you consider the 1st round draft choice...geesh.

Seriously, that's one of the worst trades Dumars has ever pulled off. Michael Jordan picked Joe's pocket, once again.

Murphy .. finally got someone to agree with me.. I was against it ..from the instant it happened .. swearing and punching through walls the second all of those moves were made ..

I think we get cap space 1 year eariler than we would have .. Joe simply got rid of players whose attitude he felt were bad .. Rip and Ben G. .. no matter what .. Makes some sense .. but the loss of the first round pick may bite us .. I wouldnt want it to be a top 20 pick .. if it isnt .. then we can live with it .. ... Amnesty for Ben G would have been just as good and we wouldnt have lost the draft pick ..

[Grizz2]

Weird comment by Frank about not being able to win and develop players at the same time. If I were the owner, that comment alone would be enough for me to lose confidence in him as the right coach for this roster.

Still, although I'm not a Frank fan, I think he can be given some credit for a surprisingly long list of things:

-- Change the dynamic of the starting unit by starting a college PF at SG, a creative move (I realize some claim Stuckey should be given the credit).
-- Find the right role for Stuckey off the bench, on the ball and attacking the basket.
-- Burying Bynum on the bench, as badly as he's been playing.
--Instill some defensive organization and intensity on a regular basis.
-- Gradually increase the role of Drummond.
-- Run more of the offense through Monroe (during the course of Frank's tenure).
-- Create some spacing on the second unit by resurrecting Villanueva to play alongside Stuckey.
-- Give Knight every opportunity to develop, in spite of some rocky interim results.
-- Maintain a semblance of team spirit on a team not that far removed from mutiny (admittedly with a partially different cast of characters).

Sparma .. good post .. Frank has done some good things .. but . I wish he had done them a lot sooner .. Still .. he is a work in progress too I suppose .. He has said things though like this that can be taken the wrong way .. and I am taking that way .. !! The next one is to NOT play C. Magette .. English or Kravtsove should play instead ..

[Phil-Good]

[quote="Sebastian"][quote="WISEFAN"]

Would any of you do the following trade?

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

HELLO NO!!! Now If we talking about taking B.K.7 out and adding A guy like Charlie V, Mad Max or somebody like that. I am all in.

[Phil-Good]

[quote="Phil1980boy"][quote="Sebastian"][quote="WISEFAN"]

Add Rod Stuckey in there and I would pull this off ASAP!!!

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[merc]

Man I'm a little bummed with the passing of Dave Brubeck. I know the kiddies have no idea who Brubeck is and what he meant to the jazz culture. I can recall in my early youthfulness not even a teenager yet playing those imaginary drums mimicking each beat from "Take Five" not even then realizing that song was 20 years before that moment.

I have ever version of Take Five from Benson to Washington and everyone in between. I love Jazz. I love that song because it's timeless and last forever. I can only imagine that in another 53 years that song will still sound as new and fresh as it did the first time I've heard or 53 years ago when Brubeck first performed it.

But I liked Brubeck for other things beside his music, like being the first of only a few to have a black musician in his band, and his political stance against racism, poverty, amongst others cultural divides.

Thanks for mentioning Grover Washington's take five... I couldn't remember who did the best version (imo).

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