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Once more on mismatches/ Don

Post  Sparma Today at 10:16 am

Don, I'm not surprised that John Wall can sometimes take advantage of Ish Smith. In fact, his ball security hasn't been good this year, two games in.

Still, let's not exaggerate the significance of a few plays. Last year, Smith's TO to assist rate was outstanding at 3.71+. Brandon Knight, so frequently praised by you, Don, has never, ever, come anywhere close to that level.

Even so, I'm not claiming Ish is an excellent dribbler (although I think he's solid). I'm just asserting he's unusually fast/ quick, even by NBA guard standards. In combination with decent dribbling ability and a willingness to pass, his outstanding characteristic poses a potential mismatch, which a coach should attempt to exploit. In the case of Smith, SVG's done some of that.

By my estimate, Smith's a bit better than average NBA player, or maybe just average (given his serious deficiencies as defender and shooter).

Claiming a mismatch need not be equated with claiming overall high quality. Consider the case of maybe the worst MLB field player ever. The guy didn't have enough skill to ever earn an AB; he couldn't field well enough to ever merit play in the field. But the guy had one world class skill: speed. And while he was on the roster, Oakland's manager found a way to exploit the speed of Herbert Washington.

Finally, Don, I haven't yet heard you (our most optimistic prognosticator!!) answer the challenge of what you regard as positive mismatches which the Pistons can exploit.


cool breeze wrote:
Sparma wrote:Just watched the last 5 minutes.  Pistons looked scrappy but destined to lose.  Ball out on Bradley, even though Porter clearly fouled him, but that's not reviewable, but only who last touched the ball.  I hate Reggie ball, although I see his overall numbers look good, and he did hit a big shot while I watched, in addition to pounding the air out of the ball on an empty play and making a turnover on the ground.

More good points, Don, although I think you're underselling the positives of both Boban and Ish.  I'm not saying either one is a great player, or even that it's great to have them on the roster.  But looking at the guys on the roster, the coach needs to recognize positive mismatches and seek to optimize the advantages.  I don't think SVG does much of that.

Also, if you disagree with (some of) my list of mismatches, where do you see the mismatches that can be exploited?  Surely you think there are some, especially if you're predicting 47 wins, if I remember right.

Well Sparma if you had watched the entire game especially the 3rd quarter you would not have made the comment relating to Smith. Wall picked on Smith on the first half taking the ball away from him two times for easy scores within about 10 seconds. But in the 3rd, the Pistons fell way behind and it was clear that Ish Smith decided to play the same style that got the Pistons so many of those losses last season. Detroit completely stopped running their offense as soon as he entered what had been a close game. The Ish Smith point guard read and react game is the most insane thing that I have ever seen any team play in my life. It was all Ish Smith dominating the basketball while being out of control possession after possession with this teammates left to wonder what in hell he was doing. There was no player movement or ball movement. Whenever a player other than Smith touched the basketball it was late in the shot clock against heavy pressure. Wall suckered Smith into reverted to his play ground days and it worked. Wall let him have a layup one time and Smith is hooked on finding another small opening and then over penetrating with everyone on the Piston team out of sync and looking confused. My question after watching Smith now for two games this year and all of last season is why has the coach given Ish Smith the green light to dominate the ball and shoot the ball so much when he has never been a good shooter? He takes low percentage shots against heavy pressure. WHY? Imagine how good this team could be if SVG would use Galloway or Bradley as the back up point guard. The turnovers would be cut 75% and the team could actually run a real half court offense. If Smith hadn't been taken out of this game, Washington would have easily beaten Detroit by 25 points. it is a shame for the rest of his teammates to suffer the consequences of his decision making. Every team will be working Ish Smith over this season if Smith doesn't change his style and become a facilitator not the number one option.  SVG let the game get out of hand and should have limited Smith's minutes based on his first half play. SVG has got to get smarter. Ish Smith does not matchup well against any Washington player. He cannot defend any play on their team and they all can make him look bad when he tries to run the piston team. Watch the game film SVG. Don't ignore this huge issue like you did last season.  

Credit those players who led the comeback once Smith went to the bench. Reggie Jackson is also a ball hog but he can run an offense and did a pretty good job of it last night. Reggie has a lot more tools in his war chest relating to his scoring ability and now he has that fire in his belly again. He had his issues on defense but he was not slacking at anytime.  

But what a crazy comeback by our Pistons to make this a close game. The officials screwed the Pistons three times in crunch time. Jackson was fouled twice which would have meant 4 points and Bradley was clearly hit across the arms going in for a layup with a clear reach which goes to the offensive man 99% of the time. I wonder what the point spread was in that game. very fishy calls by the same ref.

How about our rookie Luke Kennard and his incredible shooting in the first half. And I see nothing wrong with is defense. He actually thinks on defense and moves his feet really well.

I was questioning the amount of playing time Leuer got until he played center during that big comeback in the 4th. He did a great job on Gortat and beat him back in transition several times. The coach has trust in Leuer and maybe he plays the center position better than the 4.

Johnson played another good floor game and his shooting was much better. He looks banged up but what I like best about him is the fact that he makes few mistakes on defense or offense. And he is just getting started.

This Piston team has outstanding chemistry so far. SVG is playing his entire roster or at least all of the players who are healthy enough to play.
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The Refs Are Still Crooked.

Post  Murph Today at 9:51 am

Tough loss last night. The refs were ridiculous. They were hell bent on handing the Wizards a victory at home. They called the Pistons for 32 PFs last night, while they called the Wizards for 18.

Lets hope the Pistons have better luck tonight against the Knicks. Who's going to guard Porzingis on the perimeter? Harris? Leuer? It could be an issue.
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Reggie throws MAJOR shade at Drummond...

Post  Oracle Today at 3:45 am

https://www.thescore.com/news/1402959 wrote:When asked how Drummond's exit and the team's subsequent transition to a small-ball lineup sparked the Pistons' fortunes, Jackson was blunt.

"We were a lot quicker - and we were finally allowed to play basketball," Jackson told the media
Wow, and I thought they were best buddies!!!

Don't turn your back on the Regginator Smile 
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze Today at 2:56 am

Sparma wrote:Just watched the last 5 minutes.  Pistons looked scrappy but destined to lose.  Ball out on Bradley, even though Porter clearly fouled him, but that's not reviewable, but only who last touched the ball.  I hate Reggie ball, although I see his overall numbers look good, and he did hit a big shot while I watched, in addition to pounding the air out of the ball on an empty play and making a turnover on the ground.

More good points, Don, although I think you're underselling the positives of both Boban and Ish.  I'm not saying either one is a great player, or even that it's great to have them on the roster.  But looking at the guys on the roster, the coach needs to recognize positive mismatches and seek to optimize the advantages.  I don't think SVG does much of that.

Also, if you disagree with (some of) my list of mismatches, where do you see the mismatches that can be exploited?  Surely you think there are some, especially if you're predicting 47 wins, if I remember right.

Well Sparma if you had watched the entire game especially the 3rd quarter you would not have made the comment relating to Smith. Wall picked on Smith on the first half taking the ball away from him two times for easy scores within about 10 seconds. But in the 3rd, the Pistons fell way behind and it was clear that Ish Smith decided to play the same style that got the Pistons so many of those losses last season. Detroit completely stopped running their offense as soon as he entered what had been a close game. The Ish Smith point guard read and react game is the most insane thing that I have ever seen any team play in my life. It was all Ish Smith dominating the basketball while being out of control possession after possession with this teammates left to wonder what in hell he was doing. There was no player movement or ball movement. Whenever a player other than Smith touched the basketball it was late in the shot clock against heavy pressure. Wall suckered Smith into reverted to his play ground days and it worked. Wall let him have a layup one time and Smith is hooked on finding another small opening and then over penetrating with everyone on the Piston team out of sync and looking confused. My question after watching Smith now for two games this year and all of last season is why has the coach given Ish Smith the green light to dominate the ball and shoot the ball so much when he has never been a good shooter? He takes low percentage shots against heavy pressure. WHY? Imagine how good this team could be if SVG would use Galloway or Bradley as the back up point guard. The turnovers would be cut 75% and the team could actually run a real half court offense. If Smith hadn't been taken out of this game, Washington would have easily beaten Detroit by 25 points. it is a shame for the rest of his teammates to suffer the consequences of his decision making. Every team will be working Ish Smith over this season if Smith doesn't change his style and become a facilitator not the number one option. SVG let the game get out of hand and should have limited Smith's minutes based on his first half play. SVG has got to get smarter. Ish Smith does not matchup well against any Washington player. He cannot defend any play on their team and they all can make him look bad when he tries to run the piston team. Watch the game film SVG. Don't ignore this huge issue like you did last season.

Credit those players who led the comeback once Smith went to the bench. Reggie Jackson is also a ball hog but he can run an offense and did a pretty good job of it last night. Reggie has a lot more tools in his war chest relating to his scoring ability and now he has that fire in his belly again. He had his issues on defense but he was not slacking at anytime.

But what a crazy comeback by our Pistons to make this a close game. The officials screwed the Pistons three times in crunch time. Jackson was fouled twice which would have meant 4 points and Bradley was clearly hit across the arms going in for a layup with a clear reach which goes to the offensive man 99% of the time. I wonder what the point spread was in that game. very fishy calls by the same ref.

How about our rookie Luke Kennard and his incredible shooting in the first half. And I see nothing wrong with is defense. He actually thinks on defense and moves his feet really well.

I was questioning the amount of playing time Leuer got until he played center during that big comeback in the 4th. He did a great job on Gortat and beat him back in transition several times. The coach has trust in Leuer and maybe he plays the center position better than the 4.

Johnson played another good floor game and his shooting was much better. He looks banged up but what I like best about him is the fact that he makes few mistakes on defense or offense. And he is just getting started.

This Piston team has outstanding chemistry so far. SVG is playing his entire roster or at least all of the players who are healthy enough to play.

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Wash & Cool/ mismatches

Post  Sparma Yesterday at 10:47 pm

Just watched the last 5 minutes. Pistons looked scrappy but destined to lose. Ball out on Bradley, even though Porter clearly fouled him, but that's not reviewable, but only who last touched the ball. I hate Reggie ball, although I see his overall numbers look good, and he did hit a big shot while I watched, in addition to pounding the air out of the ball on an empty play and making a turnover on the ground.

More good points, Don, although I think you're underselling the positives of both Boban and Ish. I'm not saying either one is a great player, or even that it's great to have them on the roster. But looking at the guys on the roster, the coach needs to recognize positive mismatches and seek to optimize the advantages. I don't think SVG does much of that.

Also, if you disagree with (some of) my list of mismatches, where do you see the mismatches that can be exploited? Surely you think there are some, especially if you're predicting 47 wins, if I remember right.
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Tough Loss...

Post  Oracle Yesterday at 10:45 pm

We came back with everyone contributing some good and a few mistakes, but

1. Reggie is only 85-90% there, but you can see the old Reggie is going to break out. He really looks good, but there were a few times he kept the ball instead of hitting the open man, IMO.

2. Bradley did a good KCP imitation, he was a horrible brick layer for 3 quarters, but came alive in the 4th for a couple of huge 3 pointers. But Bradley's defense is a notch better than KCP's, and my size concerns appear to not be a big factor at all, he plays bigger.

3. Drummond couldn't play in the 4th, but not because of FT shooting, he fouled out.

4. I would have played Ellenson over Leuer, the Leuer experiment is damn near over for me, it's time to bring along the youngster.

5. Kennard made the most of his minutes, he looks like our Booker(spelled it wrong earlier).

6. Stanley's shot is NOT broken, the young man had a very good game on both ends. I still see him putting it together this season.

7. If Boban wasn't hurt or sick, we must be moving him soon. If you pay a guy that much and fail to play him, something is very wrong!

The Wizards were helped/bailed out in the 4th by some very favorable calls, the Pistons had them on the ropes, but the refs, while not the reason for the loss, didn't help either.

This was a really good game to watch, but of course, I didn't like the result!
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I'm seeing the future...

Post  Oracle Yesterday at 8:55 pm

Kennard is kicking ass and taking names!!!

This kid is our Booger!!
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Top 50 List Is Always A Joke

Post  WTF Yesterday at 2:33 pm

Mind you there were already a handful of questionable players on the list already but seriously Steph Curry and KD on the list already.  Not feeling it at all while I can might perhaps an argument of Lebron being on the list maybe even D-Wade while still playing I just don't think a player should be added until their career is completed and the body of their work can be totally assessed.

Kobe, KG, Miller, Pierce, Allen and Duncan are locks but after that not sure if I would have added the others.  Also don't think I would have removed Worthy from the list.
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Washington vs Detroit and Milwaukee vs Cleveland and comments from Sparma

Post  cool breeze Yesterday at 12:01 pm

First off responding to Sparma's comments I have two big questions? I watched some film on Boban late summer and had questions as to how Boban can be expected to run the floor given he speed of the NBA game when he looked to be the slowest player in Euro ball recently? There is no doubt that Boban can get his shot off in the paint if he can establish position but opposing teams will attack quickly and have their fastest big man playing against Boban who will beat Boban even after Piston made baskets. For Boban to play, he will need to go up against an equally slow footed opposing center or some type of help defense will need to be established especially when Boban is in the game. That leads to cracks in the Piston perimeter defense. I hope I am wrong but for the life of me I cannot understand why SVG decided to spend so much money on him just as i cannot understand why he signed Leuer.

Sparma also mentioned the speed of Smith is a big asset for this current Piston team. I just don't see how Smith could ever play on a top tier playoff type team. Who will he be able to guard on the Washington team tonight? Won't he be the focus of Washington's offensive game plan when he is in the game? I agree that Jackson will also be another weak link they will attack. It seems to me that if Galloway played back up point guard tonight against Washington the Pistons would match up better and have a better chance of winning. One thing that really troubles me about Smith. After the Pistons give up a basket and have to inbound the basketball especially when the opposing team has scored after running their half court offense, why in hell does Smith race down the court like he is on a fast break and then run directly into the paint over penetrating to the point where he is trapped or is forced to turn the ball over because he is out of control? I just don't understand the logic of doing that when there is only about a 5% chance of catching an opponent sleeping in transition after they score. Wouldn't it be better to let your teammates get their proper spacing and the make a quick pass to the wing to start the half court office that the team practices on a daily basis? That kind of basketball is pure AAU offense which to me means mindless out of control point guard running the show. It is rare to catch NBA teams off guard. They all know how Smith plays. They are ready for the type of offense that Smith offers and that is why he cannot play in a playoff situation. Too many turnovers or poor floor spacing and failure to play both sides of the court and failure to run any of the plays the team practices because that style is a one man show type offense featuring SPEED. And every skill player in the NBA has amazing speed. I know I am just bitching and this is the way things will be this season but I just don't see how it will work on a nightly basis. We just have another Will Bynum. Meanwhile I really like what Galloway brings with his high basketball IQ, quick entry pass to the wing player like Bradley and his defense. This is a no brainer as far as I am concerned.

Washington VS Pistons
Who will Jackson guard? Will SVG use Johnson and Bradley on Wall and Beal? Will Galloway play major minutes? Will the refs stop calling cheap fouls on Bradley like they did in the first game? Will Drummond get dominated again by Gortat or will this matchup show AD's growth as a defensive player? As much as I do not trust Boban's ability to compete for any length of time at a competent NBA level, it would be fun to see him have success against Gortat as Oracle suggested. Washington has had Detroit's number now for several seasons, can the Pistons at least avoid getting blown out and keep the game close enough so they have the chance to win? This season the Piston's perimeter defense could help cut off the head of the snake which of course is John Wall. Make everything he does offensively very hard and wear him down.

Cleveland VS Milwaukee = This is the game I have been waiting for to see how the crafty old pros handle the sleek fabulous young players on that Bucks team. I think the Bucks are as exciting to watch as Golden State. And the Bucks might have the guy who will take over the Eastern conference and steal the show from Labron. And it will be especially interesting to watch the point guard on the Bucks who won rookie of the year last season. He just is so solid and makes so few mistakes it is crazy. Jason Kidd and Jason Terry have to be complimented for his growth. It would be cool to see a small market team like the Bucks to steal the show in the Eastern conference this season if our Pistons cannot do it.

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First Game

Post  Oracle on Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:12 pm

There are some things we can conclude from this first game, and some things we can't.

Harris: He won't be that good every night, probably not even most nights.

Stanley: Everybody here likely has had games where stuff just didn't go down. Stanley had quite a few of those that were going down and came right out, or rimmed around and popped out. That won't continue to be the case, his shot will go down better. However, the criticism of him shooting so much is valid. When you know you just can't buy a shot, that's a clue to stop buying!

SVG: He got lucky! He had Moreland and Leuer on the floor at the same time, two brick layers gumming up the works. A better team would have just left those guys alone and focused on the real threats to shut them down. Also the Bobcats were just throwing up crap shots, I was surprised at how poorly their offense was executing, especially in the 4th when they needed scores.

Galloway & Bradley are both scrappy guys that seem to find a way to get on the scoreboard. Both of them are very alert at all times, ready to take advantage of any small error by opposing players. Unfortunately, I don't see how Kennard gets much PT with vets this good roaming the sidelines.

Ellenson: Under normal circumstances I would discount a first game, but we've seen this movie from summer league to preseason and now in the regular season... it's time for SVG to start believing. Could it be time to look to move Leuer? A move to get another solid piece could change the upside of this team dramatically.

Reggie: Off to a good start, but once he gets his sea legs, will he revert? Time will tell.

We got off to a good start, but still not enough information to adjust prediction numbers yet, IMO.

Against the Wizards I'd use Boban as much as possible against Gortat. Gortat beats Drummond because he has a nice height advantage, but that advantage doesn't exist against Boban... do it SVG!
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Mismatches

Post  Sparma on Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:06 pm

Good points, Don, although I wonder if present day, physically diminished, Dwight Howard could dominate on O against a behemoth as in the olden days.

My sense is that SVG knows himself that he's a sourpuss, and with outside help, he recently found a way to counter this tendency by stressing seeking your own greatness. Sure there are things that folks can't do, but he's going to emphasize what they can do.

I see four positive mismatches for the Pistons. They'd best exploit these given how ordinary they are on the whole. These shouldn't be confused with my comprehensive game plan (it'd be great if the Pistons could play like the Warriors), but my specification of actual strengths that I see on the team that are great enough to lead to mismatches.

1) Drummond's going to get more than his fair share of offensive rebounds.
2) No single defender's equipped to stop Boban in close to the basket.
3) Few if any defenders are fast enough/ quick enough to match the speed and quickness of Ish.
4) Few teams can match our depth.

I'm tempted to add something about the defensive pressure with both Bradley and Johnson in, but it's a tad early for that.

I understand that there are counters, and accompanying weaknesses in the players mentioned. Maybe Zeller scores 50%/ 60% at C, pulling Boban out of defensive position?

My principal contention is that a good coach finds ways of exploiting such mismatches, while seeking for counters to the counters. By my reckoning SVG's emphasized 1&3, i.e., 50% of the mismatches. Not good enough. The Charlotte game does suggest he might be lengthening his bench.

When you're a pessimist as SVG clearly is (and as I am), you can become superfocused on preventing bad things from happening. That needs to be part of coaching strategy, of course. But prioritizing what individual players actually do well, the strengths of your team, needs to be given top priority. SVG's now given lip service to that principle. Let's see if he can follow through.



cool breeze wrote:
Sparma wrote:Great post, Lemon!

A couple of grumbles concerning game 1, although I was pleased with the result.

1) I agree entirely with Murph about Stanley's volume shooting.  It's great that Johnson can earn minutes via his D, a la Rodman.  But even without looking it up, I'd be willing to bet that Dennis never went 0-13, this although Stanley's a better shooter than him.  On the basketball court, dude had too much sense to harm his team like that (that's setting aside the North Korea shenanigans and other stuff that demonstrate he can be a knucklehead).

2) No Boban, even though Andre's getting nowhere against Howard.  What an ugly hook shot from some distance, with maybe a 1% of going in.  I started watching partway through, but am happy to hear that he only had one such shot.  Even the Pistons' announcers commented on AD not being able to do stuff offensively against Howard.  That shove that riled AD up was a dirty play, but more generally Howard manhandled him (although credit to AD for still getting 13 bounds).  You bring in Boban against the big conventional center who's not going to consistently burn you from the outside, ie, Howard.  Zeller would be another story, where he and Boban would burn each other on the two sides of the court, and you'd have offsetting mismatches.  I don't get it.

lemonpen wrote:The LCA is fabulous.  Eateries and watering holes galore.  Lots of opportunities to buy swag too.  The seats are a few inches more spacious (no more shoulder or knee touching with your neighbor).  I was greeted and wished an enjoyable experience about three dozen times.  Outstanding graphics on the jumbotron or whatever it’s called today.   Tom Wilson was sighted strutting about proudly.   Disappointing crowd size though.  Bob Lanier mingled with the crowd.  

Side note:  during college summers I made deliveries around town for an industrial laundry owned by close friends of Mrs. Bob Lanier.  Lanier graced my boss with tix to the only NBA All-Star game played at the Silverdome.  I’ll give you 1 guess who wound up sitting 2 rows behind the Eastern Conference bench enjoying conversations between the likes of Dr. J, Kareem, Sikma, Moses, Pistol Pete, Iceman ……….

The Game:
Harris:  The work put in over the summer is paying dividends right out of the gate.

Bradley’s On Ball & Help D is the real deal.  Controlling Kemba early on was key.  Avery’s varied O helped too.

I suspected so in the last week of 2016-17 and am sure today that Henry Ellenson is better than Leuer on both ends of the court.  Hands down.  That kid might be the goods.  

Leuer:   His offensive game may still be broken.  His shooting mechanics were not smooth.  Makes one wonder if last seasons “good” streak was the aberration.

If last night was any indication, we have a different Reggie.  One who is willing to allow his teammates to contribute in many many more ways.  RJAX simply did not dominate the ball and tried harder on D.  Reg limped off in the 3rd after appearing to bump knees with a Hornet.

Stanly Johnson:  Make no mistake about it, his D was a key factor in producing a W.  He was a very disruptive factor.  OTOH, do not be fooled, his shooting / shot selection singlehandedly kept Charlotte within hailing distance.  Stan was missing the center of the rim by “feet”.  Unfortunately there isn’t even an excuse of being rushed or well defended.  I’m not sure Henry won’t soon push Harris over to SF and Johnson back to the bench.

Andre:  Still gets pushed backwards as an on ball defender.  A younger D Ho would have killed Dre last night.  His role on the offensive end has certainly changed.  I did notice Dre now starts his shot with his shooting arm more extended.  He canned a few foul line J’s during warmups.

SVG:  Went 10 deep.  Wow.  Incorporated a lot more ball and man movement.  Wow.  He actually called a TO when his guards lost control of the offense with about 4 min left in the game.   Team D appears to be greatly improved.

I’m not sure Moreland will continue as b/u C for long.  Ok quickness plus big heart is about all he seems to offer.

Oh yea, Kacie Hollins:   …………. Damn-it Girl !!!.   tb  tb

I hope fans don't give up on Moreland. He is athletic, has a good history of being a shot blocker (watched him do it in college at least) and he knows the rotation system. On offense he sets screens. There is a reason why SVG inserted Moreland. I have zero confidence that Boban could defend Howard. But for sure their coach would most likely have substituted for Zeller who can run circles around Boban. I can't imagine there would be an even trade off with Boban. I think SVG saw enough in practice where most likely both AD and Moreland easily beat Boban up and down the court consistently. Boban looked extremely slow in Euro ball. I am sure SVG will try to mix him in against certain matchups though but I have never thought he could be a serious NBA rotation player. But I hope you are right and I am wrong about him.

I would like Lemonpen's thoughts about the possibility of Ellenson one day becoming an outstanding center. He is so young and could add some pounds without losing quickness. It helps to be able to see players in person to understand how their bodies match up with the competition. Ellenson looks big and strong on television. If he could become an above average defender because of his smarts, quickness and desire, maybe that is the position he should play at eventually and few centers could defend his offensive game. But at least last night he was able to get open for some wide open jump shots. And he showed the ability to drive it too. What do we have here???? Henry's eyes were lighting up. He was really having fun.  
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:31 pm

Sparma wrote:Great post, Lemon!

A couple of grumbles concerning game 1, although I was pleased with the result.

1) I agree entirely with Murph about Stanley's volume shooting.  It's great that Johnson can earn minutes via his D, a la Rodman.  But even without looking it up, I'd be willing to bet that Dennis never went 0-13, this although Stanley's a better shooter than him.  On the basketball court, dude had too much sense to harm his team like that (that's setting aside the North Korea shenanigans and other stuff that demonstrate he can be a knucklehead).

2) No Boban, even though Andre's getting nowhere against Howard.  What an ugly hook shot from some distance, with maybe a 1% of going in.  I started watching partway through, but am happy to hear that he only had one such shot.  Even the Pistons' announcers commented on AD not being able to do stuff offensively against Howard.  That shove that riled AD up was a dirty play, but more generally Howard manhandled him (although credit to AD for still getting 13 bounds).  You bring in Boban against the big conventional center who's not going to consistently burn you from the outside, ie, Howard.  Zeller would be another story, where he and Boban would burn each other on the two sides of the court, and you'd have offsetting mismatches.  I don't get it.

lemonpen wrote:The LCA is fabulous.  Eateries and watering holes galore.  Lots of opportunities to buy swag too.  The seats are a few inches more spacious (no more shoulder or knee touching with your neighbor).  I was greeted and wished an enjoyable experience about three dozen times.  Outstanding graphics on the jumbotron or whatever it’s called today.   Tom Wilson was sighted strutting about proudly.   Disappointing crowd size though.  Bob Lanier mingled with the crowd.  

Side note:  during college summers I made deliveries around town for an industrial laundry owned by close friends of Mrs. Bob Lanier.  Lanier graced my boss with tix to the only NBA All-Star game played at the Silverdome.  I’ll give you 1 guess who wound up sitting 2 rows behind the Eastern Conference bench enjoying conversations between the likes of Dr. J, Kareem, Sikma, Moses, Pistol Pete, Iceman ……….

The Game:
Harris:  The work put in over the summer is paying dividends right out of the gate.

Bradley’s On Ball & Help D is the real deal.  Controlling Kemba early on was key.  Avery’s varied O helped too.

I suspected so in the last week of 2016-17 and am sure today that Henry Ellenson is better than Leuer on both ends of the court.  Hands down.  That kid might be the goods.  

Leuer:   His offensive game may still be broken.  His shooting mechanics were not smooth.  Makes one wonder if last seasons “good” streak was the aberration.

If last night was any indication, we have a different Reggie.  One who is willing to allow his teammates to contribute in many many more ways.  RJAX simply did not dominate the ball and tried harder on D.  Reg limped off in the 3rd after appearing to bump knees with a Hornet.

Stanly Johnson:  Make no mistake about it, his D was a key factor in producing a W.  He was a very disruptive factor.  OTOH, do not be fooled, his shooting / shot selection singlehandedly kept Charlotte within hailing distance.  Stan was missing the center of the rim by “feet”.  Unfortunately there isn’t even an excuse of being rushed or well defended.  I’m not sure Henry won’t soon push Harris over to SF and Johnson back to the bench.

Andre:  Still gets pushed backwards as an on ball defender.  A younger D Ho would have killed Dre last night.  His role on the offensive end has certainly changed.  I did notice Dre now starts his shot with his shooting arm more extended.  He canned a few foul line J’s during warmups.

SVG:  Went 10 deep.  Wow.  Incorporated a lot more ball and man movement.  Wow.  He actually called a TO when his guards lost control of the offense with about 4 min left in the game.   Team D appears to be greatly improved.

I’m not sure Moreland will continue as b/u C for long.  Ok quickness plus big heart is about all he seems to offer.

Oh yea, Kacie Hollins:   …………. Damn-it Girl !!!.   tb  tb

I hope fans don't give up on Moreland. He is athletic, has a good history of being a shot blocker (watched him do it in college at least) and he knows the rotation system. On offense he sets screens. There is a reason why SVG inserted Moreland. I have zero confidence that Boban could defend Howard. But for sure their coach would most likely have substituted for Zeller who can run circles around Boban. I can't imagine there would be an even trade off with Boban. I think SVG saw enough in practice where most likely both AD and Moreland easily beat Boban up and down the court consistently. Boban looked extremely slow in Euro ball. I am sure SVG will try to mix him in against certain matchups though but I have never thought he could be a serious NBA rotation player. But I hope you are right and I am wrong about him.

I would like Lemonpen's thoughts about the possibility of Ellenson one day becoming an outstanding center. He is so young and could add some pounds without losing quickness. It helps to be able to see players in person to understand how their bodies match up with the competition. Ellenson looks big and strong on television. If he could become an above average defender because of his smarts, quickness and desire, maybe that is the position he should play at eventually and few centers could defend his offensive game. But at least last night he was able to get open for some wide open jump shots. And he showed the ability to drive it too. What do we have here???? Henry's eyes were lighting up. He was really having fun.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:12 pm

lemonpen wrote:The LCA is fabulous.  Eateries and watering holes galore.  Lots of opportunities to buy swag too.  The seats are a few inches more spacious (no more shoulder or knee touching with your neighbor).  I was greeted and wished an enjoyable experience about three dozen times.  Outstanding graphics on the jumbotron or whatever it’s called today.   Tom Wilson was sighted strutting about proudly.   Disappointing crowd size though.  Bob Lanier mingled with the crowd.  

Side note:  during college summers I made deliveries around town for an industrial laundry owned by close friends of Mrs. Bob Lanier.  Lanier graced my boss with tix to the only NBA All-Star game played at the Silverdome.  I’ll give you 1 guess who wound up sitting 2 rows behind the Eastern Conference bench enjoying conversations between the likes of Dr. J, Kareem, Sikma, Moses, Pistol Pete, Iceman ……….

The Game:
Harris:  The work put in over the summer is paying dividends right out of the gate.

Bradley’s On Ball & Help D is the real deal.  Controlling Kemba early on was key.  Avery’s varied O helped too.

I suspected so in the last week of 2016-17 and am sure today that Henry Ellenson is better than Leuer on both ends of the court.  Hands down.  That kid might be the goods.  

Leuer:   His offensive game may still be broken.  His shooting mechanics were not smooth.  Makes one wonder if last seasons “good” streak was the aberration.

If last night was any indication, we have a different Reggie.  One who is willing to allow his teammates to contribute in many many more ways.  RJAX simply did not dominate the ball and tried harder on D.  Reg limped off in the 3rd after appearing to bump knees with a Hornet.

Stanly Johnson:  Make no mistake about it, his D was a key factor in producing a W.  He was a very disruptive factor.  OTOH, do not be fooled, his shooting / shot selection singlehandedly kept Charlotte within hailing distance.  Stan was missing the center of the rim by “feet”.  Unfortunately there isn’t even an excuse of being rushed or well defended.  I’m not sure Henry won’t soon push Harris over to SF and Johnson back to the bench.

Andre:  Still gets pushed backwards as an on ball defender.  A younger D Ho would have killed Dre last night.  His role on the offensive end has certainly changed.  I did notice Dre now starts his shot with his shooting arm more extended.  He canned a few foul line J’s during warmups.

SVG:  Went 10 deep.  Wow.  Incorporated a lot more ball and man movement.  Wow.  He actually called a TO when his guards lost control of the offense with about 4 min left in the game.   Team D appears to be greatly improved.

I’m not sure Moreland will continue as b/u C for long.  Ok quickness plus big heart is about all he seems to offer.

Oh yea, Kacie Hollins:   …………. Damn-it Girl !!!.   tb  tb

Lemonpen thanks for sharing that story about your early job in life while grinding it out to get that college degree. The All Star experience description was even better. Someone had to really like you to give up that kind of ticket. I was given a 50 yard line ticket to the Super Bowl years ago. One of my best friends suffered the wrath of a family member after finding out that he picked me for one of his 4 tickets. We never forget those moments and we are always thankful for the kindness we received especially when they are unexpected gifts.

During the introductions I thought the arena was close to full but as the game moved forward the television camera did pick up a lot of empty seats. This team needs to win back the City and bring that attendance up where it should be. You see a lot more when you actually attend games. Thanks for your observations.

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Charlotte

Post  Sparma on Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:04 pm

Great post, Lemon!

A couple of grumbles concerning game 1, although I was pleased with the result.

1) I agree entirely with Murph about Stanley's volume shooting.  It's great that Johnson can earn minutes via his D, a la Rodman.  But even without looking it up, I'd be willing to bet that Dennis never went 0-13, this although Stanley's a better shooter than him.  On the basketball court, dude had too much sense to harm his team like that (that's setting aside the North Korea shenanigans and other stuff that demonstrate he can be a knucklehead).

2) No Boban, even though Andre's getting nowhere against Howard.  What an ugly hook shot from some distance, with maybe a 1% of going in.  I started watching partway through, but am happy to hear that he only had one such shot.  Even the Pistons' announcers commented on AD not being able to do stuff offensively against Howard.  That shove that riled AD up was a dirty play, but more generally Howard manhandled him (although credit to AD for still getting 13 bounds).  You bring in Boban against the big conventional center who's not going to consistently burn you from the outside, ie, Howard.  Zeller would be another story, where he and Boban would burn each other on the two sides of the court, and you'd have offsetting mismatches.  I don't get it.

lemonpen wrote:The LCA is fabulous.  Eateries and watering holes galore.  Lots of opportunities to buy swag too.  The seats are a few inches more spacious (no more shoulder or knee touching with your neighbor).  I was greeted and wished an enjoyable experience about three dozen times.  Outstanding graphics on the jumbotron or whatever it’s called today.   Tom Wilson was sighted strutting about proudly.   Disappointing crowd size though.  Bob Lanier mingled with the crowd.  

Side note:  during college summers I made deliveries around town for an industrial laundry owned by close friends of Mrs. Bob Lanier.  Lanier graced my boss with tix to the only NBA All-Star game played at the Silverdome.  I’ll give you 1 guess who wound up sitting 2 rows behind the Eastern Conference bench enjoying conversations between the likes of Dr. J, Kareem, Sikma, Moses, Pistol Pete, Iceman ……….

The Game:
Harris:  The work put in over the summer is paying dividends right out of the gate.

Bradley’s On Ball & Help D is the real deal.  Controlling Kemba early on was key.  Avery’s varied O helped too.

I suspected so in the last week of 2016-17 and am sure today that Henry Ellenson is better than Leuer on both ends of the court.  Hands down.  That kid might be the goods.  

Leuer:   His offensive game may still be broken.  His shooting mechanics were not smooth.  Makes one wonder if last seasons “good” streak was the aberration.

If last night was any indication, we have a different Reggie.  One who is willing to allow his teammates to contribute in many many more ways.  RJAX simply did not dominate the ball and tried harder on D.  Reg limped off in the 3rd after appearing to bump knees with a Hornet.

Stanly Johnson:  Make no mistake about it, his D was a key factor in producing a W.  He was a very disruptive factor.  OTOH, do not be fooled, his shooting / shot selection singlehandedly kept Charlotte within hailing distance.  Stan was missing the center of the rim by “feet”.  Unfortunately there isn’t even an excuse of being rushed or well defended.  I’m not sure Henry won’t soon push Harris over to SF and Johnson back to the bench.

Andre:  Still gets pushed backwards as an on ball defender.  A younger D Ho would have killed Dre last night.  His role on the offensive end has certainly changed.  I did notice Dre now starts his shot with his shooting arm more extended.  He canned a few foul line J’s during warmups.

SVG:  Went 10 deep.  Wow.  Incorporated a lot more ball and man movement.  Wow.  He actually called a TO when his guards lost control of the offense with about 4 min left in the game.   Team D appears to be greatly improved.

I’m not sure Moreland will continue as b/u C for long.  Ok quickness plus big heart is about all he seems to offer.

Oh yea, Kacie Hollins:   …………. Damn-it Girl !!!.   tb  tb
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Game Time

Post  BallinD on Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:54 pm

The stars came out to see the Stones and the wannabe stars came to play.  

Overall, it was a good win and I am happy to say I was wrong about Weggie, at least last night I was, as the "Good Reggie" showed up.   He played within himself, and let Tobias be a go-to-guy, as SVG said in the pre-season would happen.

SVG: "The thing everybody notices, if you’re watching, there’s a lot less pounding the ball,” Van Gundy said. “He’s not out there 15, 16 dribbles. (Jackson) makes his move, and then he makes the pass. And that’s contagious. It allows other people to play.” Duuuuh

lemonpen wrote:
I suspected so in the last week of 2016-17 and am sure today that Henry Ellenson is better than Leuer on both ends of the court.  Hands down.  That kid might be the goods.  The eye test!

If last night was any indication, we have a different Reggie.  One who is willing to allow his teammates to contribute in many many more ways.  RJAX simply did not dominate the ball and tried harder on D.  Reg limped off in the 3rd after appearing to bump knees with a Hornet.  Attribute it to ripple effects of Avery's presence, SVG prodding, Tobias skill level and/or overall maturity on his own part?

Stanly Johnson:  Make no mistake about it, his D was a key factor in producing a W.  He was a very disruptive factor.  OTOH, do not be fooled, his shooting / shot selection singlehandedly kept Charlotte within hailing distance.  Stan was missing the center of the rim by “feet”.  Unfortunately there isn’t even an excuse of being rushed or well defended.  I’m not sure Henry won’t soon push Harris over to SF and Johnson back to the bench. It was scary to watch him "clank it up," knowing that was our "lottery pick" out there stinking it up.  Wanna see if Bullock can dislodge him, or if Tobias and Ellensen can succeed as two-way players, on offense and defense."  SJ; He's no Rodman, not even close.
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Game #1

Post  lemonpen on Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:27 pm

The LCA is fabulous.  Eateries and watering holes galore.  Lots of opportunities to buy swag too.  The seats are a few inches more spacious (no more shoulder or knee touching with your neighbor).  I was greeted and wished an enjoyable experience about three dozen times.  Outstanding graphics on the jumbotron or whatever it’s called today.   Tom Wilson was sighted strutting about proudly.   Disappointing crowd size though.  Bob Lanier mingled with the crowd.  

Side note:  during college summers I made deliveries around town for an industrial laundry owned by close friends of Mrs. Bob Lanier.  Lanier graced my boss with tix to the only NBA All-Star game played at the Silverdome.  I’ll give you 1 guess who wound up sitting 2 rows behind the Eastern Conference bench enjoying conversations between the likes of Dr. J, Kareem, Sikma, Moses, Pistol Pete, Iceman ……….

The Game:
Harris:  The work put in over the summer is paying dividends right out of the gate.

Bradley’s On Ball & Help D is the real deal.  Controlling Kemba early on was key.  Avery’s varied O helped too.

I suspected so in the last week of 2016-17 and am sure today that Henry Ellenson is better than Leuer on both ends of the court.  Hands down.  That kid might be the goods.  

Leuer:   His offensive game may still be broken.  His shooting mechanics were not smooth.  Makes one wonder if last seasons “good” streak was the aberration.

If last night was any indication, we have a different Reggie.  One who is willing to allow his teammates to contribute in many many more ways.  RJAX simply did not dominate the ball and tried harder on D.  Reg limped off in the 3rd after appearing to bump knees with a Hornet.

Stanly Johnson:  Make no mistake about it, his D was a key factor in producing a W.  He was a very disruptive factor.  OTOH, do not be fooled, his shooting / shot selection singlehandedly kept Charlotte within hailing distance.  Stan was missing the center of the rim by “feet”.  Unfortunately there isn’t even an excuse of being rushed or well defended.  I’m not sure Henry won’t soon push Harris over to SF and Johnson back to the bench.

Andre:  Still gets pushed backwards as an on ball defender.  A younger D Ho would have killed Dre last night.  His role on the offensive end has certainly changed.  I did notice Dre now starts his shot with his shooting arm more extended.  He canned a few foul line J’s during warmups.

SVG:  Went 10 deep.  Wow.  Incorporated a lot more ball and man movement.  Wow.  He actually called a TO when his guards lost control of the offense with about 4 min left in the game.   Team D appears to be greatly improved.

I’m not sure Moreland will continue as b/u C for long.  Ok quickness plus big heart is about all he seems to offer.

Oh yea, Kacie Hollins:   …………. Damn-it Girl !!!.   tb  tb
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SJ

Post  Murph on Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:45 am

I get that Johnson is in the starting lineup because of his defense.  I don't even object.  I agree that Johnson will develop into an outstanding defender, even better than he is now.  

But if he's in the rotation because of his defense, why in the heck is he shooting himself into oblivion by going 0-13?  If he's in the game for his D, why doesn't he quit shooting when he's like 0-6.  Those last 7 shots are just stupid.  I mean he took the 2nd most shots on the team.  We don't need any more low IQ players.  SJ had better pick up his game.
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Great night - no politics - no slacking by any Piston player - signs of better team chemistry with better balanced roster

Post  cool breeze on Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:02 am

The arena looked really nice. The fans were great. My only complaint is Adams Sliver's officiating crew. Bogus fouls benefiting Walker actually bailing him out several times when he was out of control. And we can't forget Howard shoving Drummond to the hardwood directly in front of the baseline ref with no call. AD was ready to fight. I liked his mindset in this game.

Hopefully this season for the Pistons will look a lot like this game. Perhaps different players will have the hot hand as Harris, Galloway, and Ellenson had last night.

Stan Van Gundy did a really good job as well. He had the guts to bring in Moreland after AD got two early fouls. SVG should not be afraid to use Moreland. He will only get better. Tolliver did not dress for the game. This was the break Ellenson needed. Henry is very mobile and is a hard player for anyone to guard. Jost got to keep working hard learning how to be a good defender. He is athletic enough for sure.

Is Johnson our new Dennis Rodman? His shooting was way off but there was no doubt about his impact on that game with his defensive presence. When he was not on the floor there was a big difference in defensive intensity and that he why he played the most minutes of any player. He was in the passing lanes getting deflections and helping teammates all the time. I only say him give up two scores all night on the various players he guarded. the combination of Bradley and Johnson's impact on the defensive end causes all of the players to play harder. Reggie Jackson did a really good job on defense in the 2nd half.

AD settled down and I thought he looked faster, smarter and there was no question that he was keyed up and fully "engaged". He made a big time block in the 2nd half and only tried the baseline hook one time.

Harris was MVP. He set the tone in the first quarter and could have scored 40 points if the point guards had recognized that he had the hot hand.

Point guards, at least from my perspective, are still the weak link for this team. I would like to see Galloway getting half of Smith's minutes at point. Smith is out of control much of the time. He lacks the ability to think 2 or 3 steps ahead and makes the big mistake of a rookie college point guard in driving too deep into the paint with no plan. As time moves forward, opponents will recognize this flaw and trap him more like they did in the last half of last season. There was a big difference between how Jackson and Smith ran the team. I counted 6 possessions where Smith dribbled the ball the full length of the court and never made one pass. Meanwhile, Smith failed to understand that Harris needed to touch the ball more not less. Smith did play tough defense and got through a lot of tough screens. Smith just needs to slow down when there is no reason to push the ball. Then make an entry pass EARLY to a wing player to start the half court offense. From what I saw last night, teammates have no idea what Smith is trying to do most of the time. Does Smith have a plan or is his offensive game based on pure speed and hope lacking that special thing that Zeke had which of course was an extremely high basketball IQ. Reggie Miller made a cool statement as he announced the Boston-Cleveland game on Tuesday. He said that our Isiah Thomas might have been the smartest point guard of all time. I agree with that statement and crave that type of point guard for our Pistons. But last night I thought Jackson played pretty smart in the 2nd half. Now if he can just stay healthy.

Looking forward to the matchup between Gortat and AD in this next game. Will AD be ready this time? Gortat has kicked AD's butt every time they have played against each other. Will this be the year that AD gets his revenge? I sure like AD's new free throw shooting style. That shows me something about Andre's character. He has put in some hard work in that area. Many small steps can lead to a big reward. Keep on working AD. There is a lot to learn before you achieve greatness. AD has all the physical gifts to become a great center. How badly does he want it? Right now he sure looks motivated but he looked much like that early on last season. It will be interesting to see how he handles the mental grind once the Pistons get late into the month of December.

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They're Perfect So Far

Post  Murph on Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:41 am

Great win last night.  There's nothing to complain about.  Drummond and Reggie played smart basketball, and then had a big ol' hug at the end.  Harris looked like an emerging star.  The two biggest surprises were Galloway and Ellenson off the bench.  Ellenson brought the offensive success he had in summer league and preseason into the regular season...now if he could just play defense.  Everyone had positive +/- numbers.  There seemed to be a lot of interchangeable parts; almost everyone can play 2 or 3 positions, except maybe Ish and AD.  Stanley Johnson's shot is broke.
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My Reggie Prediction Didn't Happen

Post  WTF on Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:47 am

I was 99.9% it would  tb  Keep Hope Alive !!!!!


Glad they won their opener
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Big 1st win

Post  Sparma on Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:47 pm

Charlotte with a ton of turnovers, for which we'll give the Pistons some credit.  Stanley with some alert, tough, D, but also shooting 0-13.  Tobias in the starring role.  Detroit winning fairly easily even with AD playing middling (except for at the FT stripe where he's looking good).  Reggie solid, in limited minutes.  Bradley good.  Ellenson meriting an ongoing rotation role, looking "poised" as Kelser said.  Kennard and Boban buried on the bench.  SVG still looking like the Master of Panic even in the last minute of a comfortable win against his old nemesis.  Nice ball movement at times, but generally dependence on individual actions.
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Lots of interesting stuff in this win!

Post  Oracle on Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:24 pm

Harris was on FIRE!!!

Reggie was pretty decent, not scoring a lot, but a nice amount of assists!

Ellenson out played Leuer by a mile, and really looked good.

Drummond was ok, but I was most interested in the way he's being used, which is very good so far!
2/2 from the FT line(OMG, he may lead the league right now lol ), 4 assists, and a really nice drive to the basket from the FT line!

Stanley's 4 steals were his only real highlight, but I can live with that for now, especially when we get balanced scoring elsewhere.

Kennard didn't sniff the floor and likely never will if Galloway keeps playing like he did.

Shocker, Boban sits and Moreland gets his PT! Moreland's contributions don't always show up on the stat sheet.

It's one game, but a plan appears to be developing, and it's a good one so far.
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FYI for out of towners..

Post  Oracle on Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:14 pm

You can watch the game on league pass for free until October 24th!
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Should Be a Win, But

Post  BallinD on Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:47 pm

Oracle wrote:A weaker take on Sheed's prediction to the Pacers, "We will win game 2". At the time I didn't really get the magnitude of that statement, but it was HUGE!

It's hard to beat a team when you give them locker room material like that, but we went out and did it!

Tonight, we should win fairly easily, pulling away in the 4th, ad the Hornets are somewhat crippled.

Lots of subplots tonight.

1. Drummond's new role as passer
2. Reggie starting Stupid Van Gundy at his best, talking out of both sides of his mouth and coaching with his GM's hat on.  Gotta placate my highest paid players  facepalm If we win, it likely will be close, IMHO.  Charlotte is a better coached team and we have the team killer as our starting PG. Kemba Walker takes Weggie's lunch.
3. Bradley & Stanley's defense

And more... be there or be square  Smile
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We will win Game One!!!

Post  Oracle on Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:00 pm

A weaker take on Sheed's prediction to the Pacers, "We will win game 2". At the time I didn't really get the magnitude of that statement, but it was HUGE!

It's hard to beat a team when you give them locker room material like that, but we went out and did it!

Tonight, we should win fairly easily, pulling away in the 4th, ad the Hornets are somewhat crippled.

Lots of subplots tonight.

1. Drummond's new role as passer
2. Reggie starting
3. Bradley & Stanley's defense

And more... be there or be square  Smile
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