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Kemba

Post  Murph on Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:20 am

Wouldn't it have it been nice to have drafted Kemba Walker when we had a chance? And then could have all sat back and watched Walker at the point for the last 7 years. He might not be perfect, but he scores often and at a reasonably efficient rate, he takes care of the ball and he's even developed into a decent distributor.

Instead of riding the Brandon Knight, Brandon Jennings, Reggie Jackson carousel for the last 7 years, we could have been watching Kemba develop into an All-Star and possible HOFer, in the finest tradition of Dave Bing, Isiah Thomas and Chancey Billups

Earth to Joe Dumars: If you have a chance to draft any kid who has single handedly carried on his back his college team to a National Championship, such as Carmelo Anthony or Kemba Walker...DRAFT HIM!

Next to passing on Melo, this was Joe's worst draft mistake.
.

-------

http://detroitsportstalk.forumotion.com/viewtopic.forum?t=173
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SVG Whining

Post  WTF on Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:14 am

IJS but it's kind of stupid to moan about defense when your part of the problem.   I'm going to keep harping on this but a Good Offense is a Great Defense so stop shooting all those damn 3's.  It's a lot easier to defend the opposing team if they're taking the ball out of the net and inbounding the ball after a made basket.  

Also what is your defensive scheme because I really don't see any.  I don't see double teams, ball pressure, zones, half zones, I see nothing we don't have lock down defenders, we don't have great man to man defenders.  

The offense is still limited and bland, the defense plain and without purpose.  You can't put all the blame on the players though they do have some fault in this because their effort suck more often than not.  You not going to light a fire under these players because the thing that ignites great defensive effort is not wanting to lose in the first place.   This team is okay with losing or at least most of them.  

Seriously if AD played with same compassion and energy as Big Ben did he'll be averaging a triple double every night,  he could have double digits in pts, rebs, and blks if he really gave a damn.  

SVG maybe you need to review old film of LB, Chuck and Flip different defensive styles but all very effective
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So This Fool

Post  BallinD on Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:02 pm

Plays Moreland till the cows come home, but still, all he can yap about is the defensive intensity is not there, right Stan (broken record).  You are a clueless fool.  You created this roster.  You play your one dimensional defense players (Moreland and SJ untill the cows come home, and still can't admit we need more than just more of your sorry defense in this league of 2018 where so many teams are multidimensional.  The reporters go in lockstep repeating his tired diatribes like trained seals clapping their flippers "Oooff ooff oooff." You went after and signed Galloway, Leuer, Boban, Ish, now all you can do is complain that these "defensive stalwarts" can't play D good enough to get wins.  Nor can Moreland turn the tide, no matter how many of his minutes you shove down the team's throat.  So what is the answer, Doofus.  You don't have one, obviously, so you obfuscate.  Year-end you will be gone, we all hope!"

I never liked those SVG Orlando teams.  I thought JVG would be a better choice than SVG, but hoped that the pundits were right.  How can you excuse a poor coach who is quick to offer an unexpected fresh perspective, but is also prone to obfuscate.  Do you call him out, or just mine the quotes?  Shameful reporting on the SVG era. SVG obviously has no clue.  It will soon be over.  He is not gonna get extended, he won't make it through next year unless he unloads dead wood and thinks outside of that big cardboard box sitting atop his neck.  No Chance!  Nothing else to discuss until this fool is gone. Better trade Bradley and get something for him, because he is no fool, and will not stick around for the Swan Song of this Sh!tShow!

Sparma wrote:The box score indicates that neither Drummond nor Moreland (-7) did well.  No Boban.  Why not?  Superman's not going to hurt you outside and Boban can get his shot off against that great defensive player (of yore, at least) unimpeded.  If AD & EM were overmatched, why not give Boban a try?  (I do realize Superman wouldn't have played the whole game, so match ups need to be considered).

Wise passed along a set of midterm grades, and I saw another as well.  As I remember in the one (Ellis?) both Boban and Moreland got a B-, in the other Moreland had a C+, Boban a C.  Who cares, I suppose, but still...  In the one case, the reasoning was that Moreland's +/- has improved since January.  But wait, without looking, I'm guessing Boban has a better +/- for the season thus far.  If so, that like giving a hitter a higher grade for improving in June, even if for the season the other guy has the better BA.  The other rationale was, as I remember, that Moreland's exceeded expectations.   True enough.  But grading by expectation rather than sheer accomplishment is a dangerous path, suggesting that LeBron should get a C year after year (meets expectations), while the surprises like Moreland leapfrog those of higher achievement, even superstars who are merely meeting expectations.  And I do think that's about what Boban's done: meet expectations.

Oh well.  All along I've maintained there's a place for Moreland.  There's a balance to be struck.  The box score indicated to me that that balance wasn't struck today.

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This one really hurt!!!

Post  Oracle on Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:58 pm

I'm speechless, I didn't think there was any way we could lose this one, I had such confidence at the half, then POOF!

Sparma made the comment about balance in SVG's substitutions, and he never seems to be able to dynamically figure out match ups until it's too late.

Ballin made a very good observation, "We are a capped-out middling team that can win when all cylinders click, but that rarely happens in this NBA on a consistent basis". IMO, the reason is that good teams have enough solid contributors to deliver, and news flash, this is a good team. 

If I could piggyback on your observation and repeat an argument I made last year. We don't have a talent issue, we have a coaching issue, and yes, I'm guilty of blaming talent when appropriate, but the overall issue is coaching.

Ballin touched on that in his post when he notices that what SVG claims to want in a player and what he pursues is in radical conflict.

You give this team to Carlisle and watch as Kennard becomes a star, Ellenson getting regular rotation minutes and the efficiency of the entire team goes up while he plays 11-12 deep.

SVG has great depth and he's cluless about how to use it.

Having said that, Drummond laid a huge turd, as Wise said, Superman kicked his ass, damn near from his wheelchair.

And Bradley, who in spite of Don thinking I hate him, is a player I would normally want to keep, but only Don appears to see him playing defense. Today SVG said he played 9 and NONE of them played defense... ouch! Then in the Piston "inflated" grades, this was part of the comment about Bradley, something everybody sees except our good buddy.

"He missed seven games because of a groin injury and hasn't gotten back to his usual dogged defense. As a potential unrestricted free agent, he could be a trade chip if the Pistons decide to make a bigger move ahead of the deadline."


We need either young players or picks, so we need to start moving folks!
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Kneejerk Comment

Post  Sparma on Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:06 pm

I was on the road, so couldn't watch the game. Now that I know they folded in the second half, I don't feel much for watch it. Maybe later.

The box score indicates that neither Drummond nor Moreland (-7) did well. No Boban. Why not? Superman's not going to hurt you outside and Boban can get his shot off against that great defensive player (of yore, at least) unimpeded. If AD & EM were overmatched, why not give Boban a try? (I do realize Superman wouldn't have played the whole game, so match ups need to be considered).

Wise passed along a set of midterm grades, and I saw another as well. As I remember in the one (Ellis?) both Boban and Moreland got a B-, in the other Moreland had a C+, Boban a C. Who cares, I suppose, but still... In the one case, the reasoning was that Moreland's +/- has improved since January. But wait, without looking, I'm guessing Boban has a better +/- for the season thus far. If so, that like giving a hitter a higher grade for improving in June, even if for the season the other guy has the better BA. The other rationale was, as I remember, that Moreland's exceeded expectations. True enough. But grading by expectation rather than sheer accomplishment is a dangerous path, suggesting that LeBron should get a C year after year (meets expectations), while the surprises like Moreland leapfrog those of higher achievement, even superstars who are merely meeting expectations. And I do think that's about what Boban's done: meet expectations.

Oh well. All along I've maintained there's a place for Moreland. There's a balance to be struck. The box score indicated to me that that balance wasn't struck today.

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Well Count Me In

Post  BallinD on Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:40 pm

I'm all in on getting Kemba Walker or Mirotic in a mid-season trade to rearrange the deck chairs on this Titanic Blunder, known as the Stupid Van Gundy era. We are a capped-out middling team that can win when all cylinders click, but that rarely happens in this NBA on a consistent basis, with the last good example being our own Going To Work boys. We walk a fine line between being competitive and getting blown out, it seems.

Funny how our defensive-minded (tunnel vision) coach SVG goes after offensively gifted players, but all he talks about is defense, especially when it pertains to our younger guys (Kennard, Ellensen) He goes after players like Donatas Motiejunas, Boban, Ish, Leuer, Galloway and allegedly Kemba Walker, Mirotic, none of which are known as defensive hawks.

Does he ever go after or express interest in the Michael Kidd Gilchrists of the NBA, since he loves defense so much, but then tries to turn offensive-minded players into defensive dynamos? Nope. Would that type of approach be better than his non-strategic spitball approach? Is it schizophrenia? Talk-out-of both-sides-of-your-mouth-itis? Just an observation of his quack like a dog idiosyncratic behavior. lol

Whoever we get, shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic is a useful exercise if you want to deflect, buy time, try to figure out a plan, develop an identity, keep the owner and media off your back, etc. Way to go Captain Obvious. We see you! I know his hands are tied with another Reggie injury, but again the question arises, win what when with these middling guys, even with a healthy-vintage Weggie. This team simply has no identity.

If Dre could develop a face-up 10-15 foot jumper, it would go a long way in justifying his existence on this team. Watching him flounder and flubber against D12 was painful, although I root for him now, because his effort is obviously there, you can see his head is in the game, though he may never be a real difference maker, offensively or defensively, IMO.

The Good Ship Pusstons is taking on water folks. Role players playing well just ain't enough! door
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This Is Getting Funny

Post  WTF on Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:57 pm

You can only laugh at times I mean really back to back losses to sub .500 teams.  Their schedule is only going to get tougher so they need to win these games that are winnable.   2 and 5 in the first 7 games this month seriously  facepalm  looking at the schedule for the rest of the month they could easily go 2 and 5 in the next 7 games.  

Superman just whipped on Andre's ass  facepalm
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Right!

Post  Oracle on Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:20 pm

WTF wrote:I don't care if Bullock was fouled on that last play, there sure be more concerns and question as why was the game even this close to begin with.
They let them play in that game, and yes, he was fouled... mildly, IMO, but if you expect to get that call at that time, you're crazy.

Can you blame the refs? They can smell the wife's home cooking, short of Bullock getting shot, it's miller time  lol

But your larger point is what I was saying earlier, the fact that we were there against the baby bulls is crazy. We're the team that's supposed to know how to close out a game, not them!
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I'm with Wise, maybe, but it's rare.

Post  Oracle on Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:16 pm

lemonpen wrote:To your knowledge is it unusual (at the NBA level) to have a player use ball denial techniques for most of the game against a single opponent rather than drift away in help D.

Ball denial works on inbounds plays, but I've never seen it being effective over long periods of time.

It's also effective when there is a significant size differential, but again, it's time limited.

Generally the more effective technique is mild ball denial, then use techniques to get the ball out of the players hands. Teams try this on LeBron, but his size and passing ability limits how effective it can be.

BTW, what made you ask this question?
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Oh Brother

Post  WTF on Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:10 pm

I don't care if Bullock was fouled on that last play, there sure be more concerns and question as why was the game even this close to begin with.
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Maybe

Post  WTF on Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:55 pm

lemonpen wrote:To your knowledge is it unusual (at the NBA level) to have a player use ball denial techniques for most of the game against a single opponent rather than drift away in help D.


It would seem unusual that would be the case for an entire game.  I'll add that I wouldn't be shocked considering that it could happen considering there's not many big men with a post presence that demands double teams.  Another case would depend on the player being denied the ball and the team he plays for I can recall this tactic being used on MJ and AI at a time with very little effect.
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Question for the Forum

Post  lemonpen on Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:54 pm

To your knowledge is it unusual (at the NBA level) to have a player use ball denial techniques for most of the game against a single opponent rather than drift away in help D.

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Great effort by the Pistons against the Bulls

Post  cool breeze on Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:19 pm

There is no question that this was a tough loss. If only Tobias Harris had been his usual self the game would not have been close. AD was caught outside the paint too much in the first half and the Bulls were able to get too many easy shots. But the good news is as follows.

AD might slack off or get suckered out of the paint leaving his teammates naked in the paint still. But one positive thing that has happened this season is the FACT that Andre Drummond is a lot more focused when he comes into the game with five or more minutes to play. He was a different player last night working his butt off in the paint getting 2nd chance opportunities and put backs. And his hands were very active on defense too. AD is maturing. He is still the key to success for our Pistons. AD needs to be the unstoppable force for longer stretches. I am waiting for the Toronto game and expect AD to bring his best game of the season to show Canada that he is a former sleeping giant who has awoken in 2018.

This game came down to the Pistons missing a contested layup just before the buzzer. Maybe this was Chicago's best game of the season. Our Pistons kept taking hits but never surrendered. Losing and learning from hard fought losses can do wonders for this team as they mature. I see Kennard becoming more comfortable on both ends of the floor. The 2nd unit played tough in the 3rd quarter getting the pistons out of a deficit. Tolliver found his shot. Buycks never gave an inch on defense and showed that he can deliver the basketball to the open shooters as well as penetrate when the offense breaks down. What a great pick up by Piston management. Keep it coming Dwight!

Reggie Bullock has not had many good scoring nights lately. He did miss the contested layup at the end too. But I thought that Reggie played some outstanding defense in the 2nd half. The team needs to involve him more in the offense and he needs to find that sweet baseline 3 point jump shot. Of course Ish Smith needs to find him too instead of dribbling around so much. Yet Smith had his share of good moments too. I like this combination of Ish and Dwight but think that Kennard could play well at point guard if the Pistons decided to trade Smith.

Avery Bradley kept the Pistons in the game in the first half hitting a lot of long range shots. Then he had very little luck in the 4th quarter. I imagine he will be scolded heavily by members of this forum.

My final analysis of this game is that this was just another game where I saw positive things from our young developing team. There should be a lot of hope by Piston fans that these tough loses will translate into something very special next season. Keep this team intact as best as you can SVG. SVG is doing a great job as coach this season. The only change I want to see is arranging a trade involving Reggie Jackson. But if that doesn't happen, I hope that Reggie will run the motion offense, get the ball out of his hands early on in the shot clock and move without the ball more and save some energy to play effective defense. We will miss what Buycks brings to the Piston defense in the 2nd half of games if he is relegated to the bench. Please take the rest of the season off Reggie.


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Mirotic

Post  Murph on Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:11 am

Mirotic looked good last night. He would be very useful to the Pistons, either starting or coming off the bench. He's just the kind of shooter SVG needs and loves.

If I were SVG, I offer some combination of Ish, Bradley and Ellenson for Mirotic. I'd offer them Jackson also, but I doubt they want his contract.

That would give the Bulls a solid veteran PG on a reasonable contract, cap relief and a prospect.

And it would give the Pistons a 6'10 dead eyed shooter in the prime of his career, and open up a spot for Kennard to start.


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Bulls have some nice young talent...

Post  Oracle on Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:27 am

Maybe no super stars, it's too early to tell, but some nice young pieces.

1. Kris Dunn is looking like he may be turning the corner to be a good PG
2. Zach Levine is the one with super star possibilities
3. And who is this 7' rookie from Finland Lauri Markkanen, he hurt us early and often, sinking the winning shot.

Of course Portis & Valentine are good glue guys.

I can see why they're looking to move Mirotic.
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Don & Game

Post  Oracle on Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:37 pm

cool breeze wrote:
Oracle I hear you loud and clear. You don't like my posts(As usual, you're wrong. It's likely a comprehension problem. For whatever reason you didn't recognize a joking post staring you right in the face). My problem with you is that it is very clear to me that you really don't watch the game action or maybe you come and go or are talking a lot during the games. What I see is that the coach does trust AB a lot. He trusts Avery so much that Bradley has to play the opponents best guard every night regardless of size. That is a tough chore. Do you hate watching Avery Bradley? Do you hate watching Johnson when he plays defense. I can see why you don't like the look of his shot but can you not see anything that you like? Wow, he did the same thing with KCP, show me where you used that analysis then! BTW, what you appear to like, I consider crutch coaching, he needs a better team defensive scheme, IMO.

I really like our team this season and especially now that Reggie Jackson is not playing. I would like a replacement for Ish Smith and would keep Dwight B. You must not think at all about the possible reasons why our Pistons look like a much better team this season. We were not a good team last season with KCP playing in Bradley's position. KCP is not a high basketball IQ player. Avery Bradley is a high basketball IQ player who gets his teammates ready to play and helps them throughout the games. That is the way Bradley has always been. You are much like the old Soviet Union propaganda newspaper Provda. I provide details on what goes on in games and provide my opinion as to who is bringing positive energy and playing the right way. I used to scout a lot of high school games before becoming a coach. I know what I see. So when you ridicule my comments I know that you have no idea what in hell you are talking about. You read stats and try to figure out who is good and who is bad. I wonder Oracle. Have you ever played organized basketball at any level. It is insane for you to keep on this hate bandwagon against Avery Bradley and Stanley Johnson. You are crazed my man. Losing KCP has affected you so much that you can't enjoy the good moments this team has offered so far. - Don, you're projecting the way you operate onto me, I can't and won't ever be hung up on a single player that I could hate my team. Your mind can't contain too many variables at once because you only want what YOU want, not what's best for the team... but thanks for the insults, your class matches your intellect.

When I point out that AD failed to box out on one end and then didn't even try to get an offensive rebound on the other in an extremely hard fought game at the closing seconds, this must grind on you. Maybe that was Avery Bradley's fault. Maybe Avery shouted to Andre "hey don't screen out your man". Thankfully Stan Van Gundy doesn't listen to fans and I include myself. I admit that I do pull for certain players and want them to be successful and maybe I comment on them too much. But I think you have no idea who should be playing and who shouldn't get playing time Oracle. A player can play a great game and you might write something against that player(Oh, you've never done anything like that before have you? You can't make this stuff up). Don't keep that guy. It seems that everyone wants to be the GM and few want to just concentrate on the games and enjoy. Who do you pull for Oracle? KCP no longer is a Piston. (And you still have a one track KCP mind! KCP wasn't even my favorite Piston, but you didn't ask that question when I stood up for Singler or Knight. Did KCP have pictures of what happened to you when you dropped the soap in high school or something  lol )
But one thing is clear, you only can see, both in games and anyone's post, only want you want to see. Still hung up in cold war 50's thinking, you see the world in black and white.

You think the world is centered around you! You can want to trade anybody you like, but nobody else has that right here, or they hate the team for some other reason. I hope your bomb shelter is up to date...

Game:
I have no idea how we lost this one, but on the last play, Bullock had a wide open power finisher in Harris streaking to the basket, but decided he needed to be the hero... game over. But it wasn't just that play, and even in a loss I saw a few things.

1. We seriously need to move Bradley and let Kennard blossom.
2. Bradley had a magnificent offensive game for almost 3 quarters before he petered out. He wasn't nearly as effective defensively or taking care of the ball, still, this was a good game for him. Don believes I don't want to root for Bradley, and again, it's his low comprehension. I'm praying he has great games, otherwise it'll be harder to move him at the deadline.
3. Drummond is on his way to being a powerfully dominant big man and it's going to be a shame SVG won't be here in about a year and a half to enjoy it. He showed a LOT tonight, and evolving offensive game, FT shooting, Rim protection and passing. I can't wait until next season to see how well the pieces start to gel.


Last edited by Oracle on Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:21 pm

Oracle wrote:This generally happens when you hype up players beyond logical reason and get faced with the fact that you've been 100% wrong.

Symptoms include
1. Total denial of facts
2. Even your good eye can't see what's going on
3. Posting arguments that nobody in their right mind could take seriously
4. Doubling down, no matter how silly it gets
5. The belief that others are looking for reasons to attack your fetish friends instead of the facts speaking for themselves

But there is hope(but it's going to be hard):
1. The ability to recognize and admit that one is experiencing an addiction to past predictions
2. A surrender to the fact that the addiction exists and a decision to seek control through listening to the facts
3. Self-observation and awareness of the behaviors that were part of and arose from the addiction, as well as those that help promote self-restraint
4. A chance to practice that restraint and build self-esteem in one’s positive capabilities
5. Compassion, both for those who have been affected by the addiction and for others who similarly struggle with addiction

You should thank your forum buddies for referring you for detox, and while it may appear that you can't live a normal life, trust me, you can return to sanity, a full and complete citizen of the world if you only take the first step... put down the Stanley and Bradley pipe.

Oracle I hear you loud and clear. You don't like my posts. My problem with you is that it is very clear to me that you really don't watch the game action or maybe you come and go or are talking a lot during the games. What I see is that the coach does trust AB a lot. He trusts Avery so much that Bradley has to play the opponents best guard every night regardless of size. That is a tough chore. Do you hate watching Avery Bradley? Do you hate watching Johnson when he plays defense. I can see why you don't like the look of his shot but can you not see anything that you like?

I really like our team this season and especially now that Reggie Jackson is not playing. I would like a replacement for Ish Smith and would keep Dwight B. You must not think at all about the possible reasons why our Pistons look like a much better team this season. We were not a good team last season with KCP playing in Bradley's position. KCP is not a high basketball IQ player. Avery Bradley is a high basketball IQ player who gets his teammates ready to play and helps them throughout the games. That is the way Bradley has always been. You are much like the old Soviet Union propaganda newspaper Provda. I provide details on what goes on in games and provide my opinion as to who is bringing positive energy and playing the right way. I used to scout a lot of high school games before becoming a coach. I know what I see. So when you ridicule my comments I know that you have no idea what in hell you are talking about. You read stats and try to figure out who is good and who is bad. I wonder Oracle. Have you ever played organized basketball at any level. It is insane for you to keep on this hate bandwagon against Avery Bradley and Stanley Johnson. You are crazed my man. Losing KCP has affected you so much that you can't enjoy the good moments this team has offered so far.

When I point out that AD failed to box out on one end and then didn't even try to get an offensive rebound on the other in an extremely hard fought game at the closing seconds, this must grind on you. Maybe that was Avery Bradley's fault. Maybe Avery shouted to Andre "hey don't screen out your man". Thankfully Stan Van Gundy doesn't listen to fans and I include myself. I admit that I do pull for certain players and want them to be successful and maybe I comment on them too much. But I think you have no idea who should be playing and who shouldn't get playing time Oracle. A player can play a great game and you might write something against that player. Don't keep that guy. It seems that everyone wants to be the GM and few want to just concentrate on the games and enjoy. Who do you pull for Oracle? KCP no longer is a Piston.

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Just Some Stuff

Post  WTF on Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:13 pm

You know what kills me in this whole Bradley thing is that keep him or trade him now he's a goner anyway after this season.  SVG would be stupid to offer a deal only because he's likely to overpay him,  really Bradley would be stupid to stay the smart move would be to find himself reunited with Thomas and I can see that happening. So he just might be in a Cavs uniform next season.

Mirotic get him if we may just don't include Kennard in the trade.  I soften on given up a 1st to get him because it not like we'll be giving up a pick from 1-15 if we actually make the playoffs.  It's not a next level trade but it a position we need to address like I said 17pt and 7 rebounds isn't shabby, he's 26 and we'll have a team option after this season.  

I see Buyck is now a topic of trade talks as well, most talking heads think he's gone after this season not sure what his contract looks like now that it's been converted from a 2-way to standard.
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Don, we're the Bradley & Stanley Detox center & we're here to help

Post  Oracle on Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:40 pm

This generally happens when you hype up players beyond logical reason and get faced with the fact that you've been 100% wrong.

Symptoms include
1. Total denial of facts
2. Even your good eye can't see what's going on
3. Posting arguments that nobody in their right mind could take seriously
4. Doubling down, no matter how silly it gets
5. The belief that others are looking for reasons to attack your fetish friends instead of the facts speaking for themselves

But there is hope(but it's going to be hard):
1. The ability to recognize and admit that one is experiencing an addiction to past predictions
2. A surrender to the fact that the addiction exists and a decision to seek control through listening to the facts
3. Self-observation and awareness of the behaviors that were part of and arose from the addiction, as well as those that help promote self-restraint
4. A chance to practice that restraint and build self-esteem in one’s positive capabilities
5. Compassion, both for those who have been affected by the addiction and for others who similarly struggle with addiction

You should thank your forum buddies for referring you for detox, and while it may appear that you can't live a normal life, trust me, you can return to sanity, a full and complete citizen of the world if you only take the first step... put down the Stanley and Bradley pipe.
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Bits and Pieces from Kevin O'Neill talking as an analyst after a college game last night

Post  cool breeze on Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:36 pm

Some of you might not remember Kevin who was an assistant coach under Rick C. years ago. O'Neill was my only live person who is a friend that was ever on the inside of the Piston organization and actually worked with Piston players. He was the coach who told Chuckie Atkins to make sure that he stayed out on Eric Snow during a time out the the Pistons held a 2 point lead with only seconds left in a big game against the Nets. Atkins of course was not listening and instead took the bate and moved inside the paint and sure enough the ball swung around to Snow who drained a 3 pointer. The Pistons still managed to win that game after another time out with only about 3 seconds left showing on the clock.

This was the part of Kevin's comments that I wanted to share. There had been a discussion about Ayton the 7 foot 1 inch college center who most likely will be the number one draft pick next summer. It was about Ayton's defensive ability. In crunch time, Ayton came out beyond the 3 point line and played man to man defense. His man drove the basketball making 3 different moves on the way and put the ball up only to have Ayton's big hand swat the ball into the crowd under the basket. Ayton had perfect form with knees bent down low and moved his feet like a small guard. So comparisons were made relating to current and former NBA players. The leader of the forum asked Kevin while stating that he knew O'Neill's strength as a coach was his ability to teach players how to defend. Keven revealed that the best two big guys he has ever seen play as defenders were the Pistons former players Ben Wallace and Cliff Robinson. He said those two players could guard any player at any position from baseline to baseline. He couldn't think of any other NBA player who he had coached that could do it like those two. He didn't coach Dennis Rodman so Dennis was not mentioned. But O'Neill said that It didn't matter if Wallace or Robinson were at practice or in a real game, their intensity was incredible. Kevin stated that Robinson had acquired the elite ability to defend though a lot of soul searching and experience in the league. Wallace was pure guts. Big Ben gave any inch of his soul on the hardwood. If AD could muster 75% of the effort and smarts that Wallace and Robinson gave on a regular basis in practice and in games, the Pistons would be a team nobody would look forward to playing and for sure would be a solid playoff team. That is what AD should aspire to in my opinion. He should recognize that he plays for the Pistons. And Piston fans know the past and love their heroes who played amazing defense and gave supreme effort all of the time. AD is capable of doing just that. He just needs to turn on the switch. Look at game film when Cliff and Ben played for the Pistons Andre. Be a hero for the City of Detroit.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:16 pm

Murph wrote:"The defensive stats I've seen on Bradley aren't very good. I discovered something disturbing about his defensive rating, using a feature at Basketball Reference. There, you can have them list his defensive rating from best to worst. Essentially his rating, once solid, has steadily gotten worse to the point of being pretty bad now. There are exceptions, but that's the general trend."

Sparma...correct.  And not only are Bradley's defensive stats not good, but his offensive stats are even worse.  I'm not sure what's going on with Bradley this year. He started out shooting well, but as the season progressed, his shooting is becoming more and more of an issue.  I guess the longer he's been away from Brad Stevens, the more his game deteriorates.

According to advanced stats, Bradley's Offensive Rating is ranked 14th best on the team, while his Offensive Win Shares are ranked 16th best on the team.  And this is on a team that scores the 3rd fewest ppg in the NBA.  

According to the advanced stats, Bradley is not just a bad offensive player, he's atrocious.  Bradley is one of the worst offensive players on one of the worst offensive teams in the NBA.


Oracle brought up an interesting point when he wrote:

"I posted an article about a guy that believed in the eye test about Bradley, and most times the eye test and the numbers are close, but not for him!"

Bradley is the odd player where the eye test (intuition) and the advanced stats diverge drastically.


Start Kennard!

How about trading both Jackson and Smith and playing the combination of Dwight Buycks and Kennard? Luke looked good bringing the ball up the court and finding the right player to pass the ball to in the last game. Byucks looks better than either Jackson or Smith and is a huge upgrade on the defensive end. Kennard is an upgrade over Smith and Jackson as well.

But I know both you and Oracle have your magnifying glasses on late at night looking for something negative on Avery Bradley. You can also play Bradley at the point guard position as well. Which current Piston player can defend the opponents best starting guard at either the 1 or 2 this season? SVG trusts Bradley in that role. The next guy in line for that job would have to be Johnson. They are the best defenders on the team. Then I believe Bullock is perhaps the 3rd best guard or small forward defender on the team. Kennard has really improved his defense and he gives all the credit for that to Avery Bradley. Bradley tells the young guys how to defend each player they go up against on any given night. He is like a coach and has a very high basketball IQ. For some reason both of you ignore the real unknowns that any coach has to deal with before each game. The coaches know that Bradley will be prepared. But how prepared will AD, IS, and RJ be as this season moves along. RJ is coming off crutches now. I worry about his negative impact once he returns. Will AD play with passion. Will Smith go off and do his solo routine for too many minutes and take the Pistons out of their motion offense? Will those three players play average defense in every game for the rest of the season? Nobody in charge is worried about Avery Bradley so I am wondering what you are smoking.

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Harris Grade

Post  WTF on Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:52 pm

DETNEWS wrote:

F Tobias Harris

B+
Key stats: Has finally embraced the 3-point shot, shooting better than 40 percent for first time in his career. Team’s leading scorer at 18.5 per game.
2017-18 salary: $16 million.
The buzz: Not only has he added a consistent 3-point shot (shooting 43.9 percent), he has tweaked his game to get to the free-throw line and protect the ball on drives to the hoop. Aside for a brief slump, a model of consistency.

I'm okay with this grade for Tobias, if I had one complaint about Harris or maybe wish would be the better word is that I think defensively he should be a lot better defenders.  Though he's shooting 43% from deep there are times when I think he needs to recognize when he's not on.  I know I blast Tolliver who seems to only take 3's but there were few times I looked at the stats and seen them same 0 for 7,8,9's.  You all know how much I hate the 3's as a focal point in the offensive scheme.
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AD Grade

Post  WTF on Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:42 pm

DETNEWS wrote:

C Andre Drummond

B+
Key stats: Shooting more than 60 percent from the free-throw line, which would easily be a career best if it continues. First in the NBA in rebounding and first in rebounding percentage.
2017-18 salary: $23.7 million.
The buzz: Settle on a free-throw shooting form? Check. Take offseason conditioning seriously? Check. Probably the main reasons Drummond is the team’s best NBA All-Star Game candidate.

Okay while I can agree with this grade I still think he's underachieving.  Yes I love that his FT& has improved yet i don't get overly hyped about his rebs and the fact that he leads the league.  I still thinks he's 2 season behind were he should be and I don't think his impact on games is near where it should be.  

Thing is I would actually give him an A solely based on his production if he didn't carry the title Franchise Player that makes the salary he's making we're not getting the Bang for the cash we're dishing out.  Even though we're seeing the numbers we're not feeling his impact on the game like we did with Bill and Ben.  He's not dominating as he should.
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SVG Grade

Post  WTF on Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:30 pm

DETNEWS wrote:Key stat: A 135-151 record with Pistons through Friday.
2017-18 salary: Agreed to a five-year, $35-million deal in May 2014.
The buzz: After 3 1/2 seasons, it’s more than fair to question the direction of the franchise. But the smart money at this point says he gets his fifth and final season to create a clear path to better days.

Okay so SVG gets a C but there's not a single comment on his total effectiveness since signing the deal, no feedback on his moves as a GM nor his overall ability to coach this team.  This what bothers me about the local media is that they refuse to address any obvious issues with SVG but boy did that not have an issue with Caldwell who actually had an overall winning record.  You could actually see progress of players under Caldwell not really sure we're seeing it under SVG direction with the Pistons.  SVG has control over personnel and coaching and struggle to find players that fit what he wants to do as coach IJS it's not really Caldwell fault he lacked a run game. 

IMO the grade should be closer to a D- based on the money he's wasting and his inability to make moves that matter.  IMO we might as well kept Joe in place.
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Speechless I'll Soak It In A Bit More

Post  WTF on Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:03 pm

Pistons midseason grades:

I don't really know what to say on either grades or feedback on them  scratch Seems like tons of fluff and sugarcoating of the real issues and concerns and in some cases the grades themselves seems a bit contradictive to the fluff being dished out.  IJS
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Re: FORUM

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