Turnovers

[Grizz2]

Among PGs, Knight is 2nd in the NBA in turnovers, with 62. Only Jrue Holiday has more TOs. And Knight is also 2nd to last is ast/to ratio, behind Kyrie Irving.

Knight simply must take care of the ball better to become an effective PG.


At least we should be able to beat the Cavs tonight.

Thanks for this Murph .. that is one stat that says a lot ..
Wise and Oracle .. this validates what you are saying as far as Knight's problems go .. and you are not just taking shots at Knight to be mean or something .. It is serious .. I feel the kid can improve his game .. by his own effort to improve .. and a good coach .. whether it is Frank (who I agree is getting the team to play hard on defense, though the in the later parts of the game .. he is still gettign out-coached even on D) or someone else ..

But he just turned 21 ... and the offense is a mess with Jmax at PF and Monroe at center .. and Singler is not really a starting SG .. though he impresses .. If something is wrong with your offense .. PG is either directly at fault or his stats will reflect what's wrong elsewhere ..

I still think he has the right attitude and a good healthy dose of natural talent .. and is a leader .. Lets say Knight and Frank have a serious issue on turnovers and they have to get it done over the next season ..

Sebastian .. Thanks for speaking up for BK7 .. Glad he is a Piston! Kicking the Cavs butts would be a great B'day gift .. Go Pistons .. Win TODAY ..

[WTF]

Drafted: Rnd 1, Pick 8 in 2011 by Pistons
Best Case: Chauncey Billups (in Prime)
Worst Case: Louis Williams

From DraftExpress.com [Only admins are allowed to see this link]

The above is what was predicted of Knights career. Well Knight is a lot closer to Williams who comes off the bench for Atlanta than he is to a Billups in his prime. Just saying people

[Oracle]

Down!!!

[Oracle]

Adventure in the 4th, but a win is a win!

[WTF]

Yeah a win is a win, but the 2nd half of this game was played like crap. I think the Cavs shot themselve in the foot more than not with a ton of ill-advised 3's in the first half and we were able to get out and run. Otherwise the game was played pretty evenly. Cavs certainly out played us in the 2nd half.

Another Ho-hum performance by Moose.

[merc]

Saying "play the kids more" and "they make too many mistakes" is a contradiction... of course they're not gonna be as disciplined... solid play comes with trial & error.

[Sparma]

Singler played great early, then trailed off, even heaving up a 3 airball.

Knight looked good driving, but twice looked ridiculousness nearly losing the ball with no one around.

Fun to watch Varejao, even if he's going up against you.

Blaha & Kelser praised Maxiell to the heavens before the game; he then vindicated their praise, especially in the first quarter. Given his contract status there's every longterm incentive to bury him on the bench. That said, he creates space for Monroe with his ability to hit midrange jumpers (an ability McDyess had not long ago). He's not much of a rebounder, but he works like a demon to body up his guy on defense. And I had no idea he could block shots the way he did tonight and the best few games.

Who said Magette would contribute more this year than Ben Gordon would have? Once Singler's shot wilted, we really needed a reliable outside shooter. Where are you Kim English?

Found myself laughing out loud watching Drummond work so hard around the basket (setting his lack of touch aside). Maxiell led in blocked shots, but Drummond became the Intimidator. And he works so hard for offensive rebounds, keeping some in play that no other Piston could have a shot at. Kelser even predicted that Drummond would become the best offensive rebounder in the league.

Nice passing by Drummond too, beautiful pass to CV. Much as I'd like to see Drummond and Monroe work together on defense, I've wondered if they could work together on offense because they both crowd the basket and because Knight likes to be able to rush into that space, not to mention Stuckey and Bynum. At least twice though, Drummond had nice passes to Monroe, one of which led to a basket. Maybe he's intent on showing he can play O with Monroe? And Monroe reciprocated to Drummond underneath. Maybe a high and low post offensive combo sometime in the future?

Even when it looked ugly offensively in the second half, the Pistons kept working hard defensively. Credit to Frank, as Oracle noted.

An unnecessarily laborious win and I hate to think of Cleveland as a longterm opponent with their two super young guards in there, but it was an exciting win.

[Grizz3]

Mercuy: Saying "play the kids more" and "they make too many mistakes" is a contradiction... of course they're not gonna be as disciplined... solid play comes with trial & error.

Merc .. AMEN! .. Happy about the win .. only grumble is Magette playing over JJ or English or Middleton or Kravtsov ... Drummond and Jmax both playing well .. Sure it was the Cavs but still Good to see .. BK7 7 for 7 from the line .. one important element for a good PG .. as Oracle was outlining his criteria for a good PG

[Grizz3]

Sparma,

Jmax is playing well .. and after all the razzing he has received over the years .. Admittedly he has often been lousy .. sometimes no fault of his own . .. like when he was asked to play center for cripes' sake ..

Gasol and Bynum played well together .. Monroe can play the high post .. Drummond down low on the block .. I wouldnt want to say Drummond should not start because he cannot hit an outside shot ... Jmax is not a revelation as an outside shooter .. He scored 12 points ... that's it .. and that is a good game for him ... Somewhere along the line, probably Monroe is the one who needs to develop a short outside shot .... but playing them together IS important because of the defensive and rebounding advantages the Pistons would then have .. Major upgrade when they do that .. Also. Maxelle has been known to disappear when he gets tired from working 120% just trying to stay even with real bigs .. Jmax can be back up big .. at at most 4 or 5 million for 2 or 3 years .. .Go Pistons ..

[Oracle]

Saying "play the kids more" and "they make too many mistakes" is a contradiction... of course they're not gonna be as disciplined... solid play comes with trial & error.

It's also the reason it's tough to judge Frank too harshly. He's working with a lot of youngsters, and has decided to focus on defense first, and it's paying off.

Once the defensive mindset is locked in, we can expand on the offensive options, but having the defensive foundation is HUGE!

[deusXango]

Sparma,

Jmax is playing well .. and after all the razzing he has received over the years .. Admittedly he has often been lousy .. sometimes no fault of his own . .. like when he was asked to play center for cripes' sake ..

Gasol and Bynum played well together .. Monroe can play the high post .. Drummond down low on the block .. I wouldnt want to say Drummond should not start because he cannot hit an outside shot ... Jmax is not a revelation as an outside shooter .. He scored 12 points ... that's it .. and that is a good game for him ... Somewhere along the line, probably Monroe is the one who needs to develop a short outside shot .... but playing them together IS important because of the defensive and rebounding advantages the Pistons would then have .. Major upgrade when they do that .. Also. Maxelle has been known to disappear when he gets tired from working 120% just trying to stay even with real bigs .. Jmax can be back up big .. at at most 4 or 5 million for 2 or 3 years .. .Go Pistons ..

Grizz, you're right on so many points, regarding our big man play, and I'd like to add a little coloring, if I may. Maxiell is playing excellent ball....for a bench player, as is Singler; once we get a real PF and SG in the lineup, those two guys will be indespensible in a winning rotation. We're talking hustle, energy, and smarts with those two guys.

I don't remember Rick Mahorn being this helluva outside shooter, do you? He was a helluva defensive player on a defensive team; Laimbeer had the outside shot, and he was our center. Anyway, when Monroe was mandated to work on his PF game this past summer, what was he to do? Hopefully practicing mid-range to outside shots were part of what he did. I don't know about an outside shot but, I believe he has a highly proficient mid-range game, if allowed to play it. For those making excuses for, and getting in lock-step with Lil' Larry, Drummond's play from opportunity to opportunity is making it more ridiculous keeping him out of the starting lineup, and being paired with Monroe; his time is now, and Maxiell's play means his true value to this team is coming in off the bench. Playing the way he is now, he's crushing 2nd line players, and who better to step in should Drummond falter? Yeah Grizz, I'd resign Maxey for 2-3 more years....at the same money he's making now. He's only earned it for maybe one year. It's taken him awhile but, he's found his game on the pro-level; I remember when he couldn't hit a Bull Moose in the ass with a bass fiddle, and was a 'black hole" on offense but, now he's worked on his shot, and takes it in the flow of the offense. I've still got a brow raised though.

[Oracle]

My praise for what Maxiell is doing is unconditional, he's playing great! He should have earned everyones respect by now, but I know there are still some holdouts for political reasons. They may even be some who say they want the person who earned the spot to play, but News Flash: Maxiell has EARNED his spot!

If somebody wants it, they better go out there and out play that cat!!!

BTW, I feel the same as you about Frank, I don't think he's the right coach long term for this team, but just because I think that, I'm not going to press for it when there are so many loose variables, and IMO, he needs to stay the whole season for practical reasons(obviously your mileage may vary, lol).

Let's see if Frank can get through the defensive course with these guys, and see if he can get the offensive game going.

Who knows, maybe Frank can pull a Maxiell, and earn our respect. I've seen stranger things happen... so have you.

[Oracle]

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

Auburn Hills — Driving down the lane in the NBA is akin to a receiver coming across the middle of the field in the NFL.

If it's a good defensive team, that player's head had better be on a swivel because getting knocked upside the noggin' isn't just probable, it's likely.

When opponents try to swoop in for layups against the Pistons, they at least have to think about who's down there and the consequences of such activity.

For a team that finished 30th and 26th in blocked shots over the past two seasons, respectively, having some type of backside help is welcomed across the board. The Pistons' 13 blocked shots Monday was their best performance since the 2006-07 season, when they were a much better club — and still, at that point, a top-level defensive unit.

Jason Maxiell, Andre Drummond and to a lesser extent, the ground-bound Greg Monroe have helped the Pistons into the top third in that category so far this season.

Their ability was on full display when young Cavaliers big man Tristan Thompson grabbed a rebound and went up for a dunk, only to have Drummond send him sprawling. The duo combined for nine of the 13 blocked shots.

[Grizz2]

Saying "play the kids more" and "they make too many mistakes" is a contradiction... of course they're not gonna be as disciplined... solid play comes with trial & error.

It's also the reason it's tough to judge Frank too harshly. He's working with a lot of youngsters, and has decided to focus on defense first, and it's paying off.

Once the defensive mindset is locked in, we can expand on the offensive options, but having the defensive foundation is HUGE!

Oracle .. you be right so .. I will stop badgering Frank .. somehow .. or at least be quiet about canning his ass .. he deserves respect for getting the guys to play defense hard .. Jmax too .. but .. Jmax has been a lost soul for most his career .. Still dont like C. Magette playing over the young but benched guns ..

[Grizz2]

Sparma,

Jmax is playing well .. and after all the razzing he has received over the years .. Admittedly he has often been lousy .. sometimes no fault of his own . .. like when he was asked to play center for cripes' sake ..

Gasol and Bynum played well together .. Monroe can play the high post .. Drummond down low on the block .. I wouldnt want to say Drummond should not start because he cannot hit an outside shot ... Jmax is not a revelation as an outside shooter .. He scored 12 points ... that's it .. and that is a good game for him ... Somewhere along the line, probably Monroe is the one who needs to develop a short outside shot .... but playing them together IS important because of the defensive and rebounding advantages the Pistons would then have .. Major upgrade when they do that .. Also. Maxelle has been known to disappear when he gets tired from working 120% just trying to stay even with real bigs .. Jmax can be back up big .. at at most 4 or 5 million for 2 or 3 years .. .Go Pistons ..

Grizz, you're right on so many points, regarding our big man play, and I'd like to add a little coloring, if I may. Maxiell is playing excellent ball....for a bench player, as is Singler; once we get a real PF and SG in the lineup, those two guys will be indespensible in a winning rotation. We're talking hustle, energy, and smarts with those two guys.

I don't remember Rick Mahorn being this helluva outside shooter, do you? He was a helluva defensive player on a defensive team; Laimbeer had the outside shot, and he was our center. Anyway, when Monroe was mandated to work on his PF game this past summer, what was he to do? Hopefully practicing mid-range to outside shots were part of what he did. I don't know about an outside shot but, I believe he has a highly proficient mid-range game, if allowed to play it. For those making excuses for, and getting in lock-step with Lil' Larry, Drummond's play from opportunity to opportunity is making it more ridiculous keeping him out of the starting lineup, and being paired with Monroe; his time is now, and Maxiell's play means his true value to this team is coming in off the bench. Playing the way he is now, he's crushing 2nd line players, and who better to step in should Drummond falter? Yeah Grizz, I'd resign Maxey for 2-3 more years....at the same money he's making now. He's only earned it for maybe one year. It's taken him awhile but, he's found his game on the pro-level; I remember when he couldn't hit a Bull Moose in the ass with a bass fiddle, and was a 'black hole" on offense but, now he's worked on his shot, and takes it in the flow of the offense. I've still got a brow raised though.

DX, that is a good point about Jmax playing smart and tough .. For his size .. he really has done well in most games this year .. Sorry to go off on him so many times .. Respect is building .. Now that you mention it .. Good to recall Mr. Mahorn .. Rick terrified the rest of the league .. Everyone was afraid of him ..especially when he started grinning and staring them down .. They knew something painful was about to happen .. We dont have anyone like that though I sure hope so someday ... Something good is going on with our young core .. Just want to see them more, especially Kravtsov and English .. .. Jmax and Prince .. forgive all the barbs and arrows I have slung because you 2 are busting your tails .. but C. Magette please hit the road ..

[WTF]

I don't like players that only perform well during contract years so I'll continue to judge him based on the whole of his last contract. For 4 season he's been virtually useless as a player before deciding it was time to step up during a contract season and I hope Joe isn't fooled by this again.

Yeah some fans will get caught up in the excitement of 5 blocks shots and a few slam dunks and some how think this 9 year veteran has finally turned the corner. This the same approach Maxiell took to get his last contract and before the ink was dry he was back to being a fat lazy fuck getting DNP-CD's.

Personally I don't like players like this (Contract induced effort) He plays for money only and not to win games for this team. Not one time can I remember Maxiell ever commenting on a loss in the media, I have watched him quietly sitting his fat ass on the bench collecting his pay check. Just be careful of being Wowed by what your seeing with him right now, if it helps get the team a win great. All his contracts going forward should all be for 1 year.

[deusXango]

I don't like players that only perform well during contract years so I'll continue to judge him based on the whole of his last contract. For 4 season he's been virtually useless as a player before deciding it was time to step up during a contract season and I hope Joe isn't fooled by this again.

Yeah some fans will get caught up in the excitement of 5 blocks shots and a few slam dunks and some how think this 9 year veteran has finally turned the corner. This the same approach Maxiell took to get his last contract and before the ink was dry he was back to being a fat lazy fuck getting DNP-CD's.

Personally I don't like players like this (Contract induced effort) He plays for money only and not to win games for this team. Not one time can I remember Maxiell ever commenting on a loss in the media, I have watched him quietly sitting his fat ass on the bench collecting his pay check. Just be careful of being Wowed by what your seeing with him right now, if it helps get the team a win great. All his contracts going forward should all be for 1 year.

Wise, you took the knot out of my tongue (at least expressed most eloquently my thoughts). Max started last year, and led us to a .500 season, after a dreadful start; why didn't he get a better contract offer, from somewhere, last summer when he tested the waters? Something the Maxiell fans should take a look at.

[WTF]

Fat Max when this type of effort was required off the bench in 2006, 2007, and 2008 Flip couldn't even pull sheed and Dice out of games while Maxiell ass grew.

[Murph]

Good win last night. It was great to see Monroe and Drummond on the court at the same time. They played roughly 6 minutes together in the 2nd half, with varying results. Moving forward, I don't envision a spacing problem when the two are in the game together. I've wanted to see Monroe play the high post more often, where he can take advantage of his passing skills. In games like last night's, we can get glimpse of how that might work when the two play together, with Drummond down low and Monroe up high.

I agree that a number of Pistons played very well last night, including starters JMax and Monroe, and Drummond off the bench. Monroe is so skilled that he gets his production, even when he doesn't appear to be playing all that well, like last night. Last night Monroe had 14 rbds, 5 asts and just missed his 9th double-double of the season by 1 pt.

I like how balanced the Pistons scoring has become.


My guess is that barring more injuries, this will pretty much be the Pistons rotation for the rest of the season. It will be interesting to see how well these guys can eventually play together as the season wears on. We are currently 3 1/2 games behind Milwaukee for the 8th and last playoff spot (although Indiana is probably more of a threat to make the playoffs than Milwaukee). I'm guessing by seasons end, we'll be giving Indiana a run for their money for that last playoff spot.

[lemonpen]

Sometimes a game can be all about a single lesson. Last nights game was a test and we failed.

Without the Cavs starting back court we were easily the better team, able to overwhelmingly outplay them whenever we put our minds to it. When the lead reached 22 pts we did what most teams do, started playing fast and loose. We were fouling too many times, running upcourt out of control, attempting passes where there was no passing lane, chucking treys left and right, and tossed up layups that when blocked lead to fast break opportunities. As the lead shrank you could see Frank trying not to call time outs. He just waited and waited and waited for his leadership to re-organize on the fly, take control of the flow and become efficient. It never happened, causing LF to stop play with the lead down to 6.

Yeah the team responded and closed with a W, but that was easy to do against a weaker opponent.
This was a very disappointing win.

[lemonpen]

Year - Min/gm - A/gm - TO - Ass/TO
1 - 11 - 2.1 - 1 - 2.1
2 - 22 - 3.4 - 1.3 - 2.6
3 - 32 - 5.5 - 2.1 - 2.6
4 - 27 - 4.9 - 1.8 - 2.7

Above is the first four years of Steve Nash's career. He didn't reach 8+ assist per game until his 8th year. He first achieved double digit scoring in his 5th year. He has yet to become an average defender.

Judging by the conversations of the last 48 hours one would believe Nash poped out out of Mother Nash dropping double digit dimes with a 5:1 Ass/TO ratio.

Brandon is only 85 games into his career.

I'm just sayin.

[lemonpen]

I don't like players that only perform well during contract years so I'll continue to judge him based on the whole of his last contract. For 4 season he's been virtually useless as a player before deciding it was time to step up during a contract season and I hope Joe isn't fooled by this again.

Yeah some fans will get caught up in the excitement of 5 blocks shots and a few slam dunks and some how think this 9 year veteran has finally turned the corner. This the same approach Maxiell took to get his last contract and before the ink was dry he was back to being a fat lazy fuck getting DNP-CD's.

Personally I don't like players like this (Contract induced effort) He plays for money only and not to win games for this team. Not one time can I remember Maxiell ever commenting on a loss in the media, I have watched him quietly sitting his fat ass on the bench collecting his pay check. Just be careful of being Wowed by what your seeing with him right now, if it helps get the team a win great. All his contracts going forward should all be for 1 year.

That is a WISE view.
Contract (here or elsewhere) and competition can't be overlooked. How might performance change when the eventuallity of AD starting happens?

[WTF]

Year - Min/gm - A/gm - TO - Ass/TO
1 - 11 - 2.1 - 1 - 2.1
2 - 22 - 3.4 - 1.3 - 2.6
3 - 32 - 5.5 - 2.1 - 2.6
4 - 27 - 4.9 - 1.8 - 2.7

Above is the first four years of Steve Nash's career. He didn't reach 8+ assist per game until his 8th year. He first achieved double digit scoring in his 5th year. He has yet to become an average defender.

Judging by the conversations of the last 48 hours one would believe Nash poped out out of Mother Nash dropping double digit dimes with a 5:1 Ass/TO ratio.Brandon is only 85 games into his career.

I'm just sayin.

I smelled this coming miles away. This would probably be relevant if Nash was selected 8th in the first round and tossed into a starting role. Nash wasn't even a starter until his 5th season and though he didn't reach his 8 assist average until year 8 he was a little better than 7 assist and 15pts.

I tell what Nash wasn't doing his rookie year and after, turning over the freaking ball 5 and 6 times a game. Let not down play Nash's early career to help make excuses for Knight's first 85 games. Why not compare Knight with other top 10 picks Rose, Paul, Westbrook or Williams rookie seasons you can at least make a better argument that Knight might be just as good or better as those 4 I just mentioned. Though I'm not all that overly impressed with them either

I won't even mention Rondo who was a 21st selection....just saying

[WTF]

I don't like players that only perform well during contract years so I'll continue to judge him based on the whole of his last contract. For 4 season he's been virtually useless as a player before deciding it was time to step up during a contract season and I hope Joe isn't fooled by this again.

Yeah some fans will get caught up in the excitement of 5 blocks shots and a few slam dunks and some how think this 9 year veteran has finally turned the corner. This the same approach Maxiell took to get his last contract and before the ink was dry he was back to being a fat lazy fuck getting DNP-CD's.

Personally I don't like players like this (Contract induced effort) He plays for money only and not to win games for this team. Not one time can I remember Maxiell ever commenting on a loss in the media, I have watched him quietly sitting his fat ass on the bench collecting his pay check. Just be careful of being Wowed by what your seeing with him right now, if it helps get the team a win great. All his contracts going forward should all be for 1 year.

That is a WISE view.
Contract (here or elsewhere) and competition can't be overlooked. How might performance change when the eventuallity of AD starting happens?

It wouldn't stick. Rest assure that if Drummond was to get the nod in starting or he inks a new deal he'll be back to getting fat on the bench.

[Sebastian]

First off, LET'S not wet OUR pants, because OUR Pistons were able to beat the Cavaliers (in my Steven A. Smith voice). Remember, this team was playing without its albeit young, starting back court; both Irving and Waiters were out with injuries.

If L. Frank would had lost that game, last night, then Gores and Joe should had fired his ass on the spot.

I'm not necessarily the biggest Jerebko fan, but I do believe that the guy offers tangibles as well as some important intangibles to OUR roster.

But, the question has to be asked: Why is Jerebko receiving all of these CD-DNPs and if he does play his minutes are so reduced that the tangibles and intangibles that he offers are not realized/utilized?

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