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Fire the Owner?

Post  BallinD on Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:39 pm

Sparma, the fish stinks from the head; True Dat!
Gores came in waving his white hat and making declarations, adopted Dre as his son and by default his butt buddy in Crime, the Weggie. He has tried everything in order to deny the truth... the team is not that good because the cornerstones are anything but! None of these great (cough) basketball minds could tell him Dre is a great rebounder and garbage man, but that’s it, and a scoring guard cannot elevate a garbage man with a weak motor, no shot and a sulking pouter.

SJ as you point out has been given free rein to be his worst version of himself, remind you of anything, maybe the Dre post-up experiment? That is Coaching, not truly on Gores.

He’s not a basketball person. Any of the few left on this forum could do a better job if we had his money. Why did he buy the team if he’s not willing to do the heavy lifting to build a viable, solid foundation. Why will no one tell him the truth.

And this myth about needing two all Stars, well the Pacers and Bucks are good with 1 all star and good complementary pieces, but they have a coach and a game plan.
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Dang

Post  Sparma on Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:26 pm

Stanley may well hold a record in futility at the moment.  I doubt that any player's 3% has gone down each of his first four seasons, yet that's where Stanley now stands: .307, .292, .286, .278.  At the same time, his average number of 3 attempts per game has steadily increased, with the exception of his second season.

Who keeps records of the sort?  That's a fierce anomaly.
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When you put it like that....

Post  Sparma on Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:01 pm

BallinD: "What is the constant: Low BBIQ, questionable motors, poor shooting, chemistry killers, and extreme inconsistency."

Well-put.  

Still, I think a good case can be made that the deepest constant has been an owner unwilling to commit to a long term plan, one that's painful in the short run.

If that claim's right, SVG becomes epiphenomenal, foam on the waves of the ocean.  Casey too.  And let's not forget letting Joe trade what became a #8 pick for moving cap space forward a year, the stretching of Josh Smith's contract, dubbing Reggie J a franchise pillar by way of his contract, trading a 1st and a 2nd & & for a hugely salaried "superstar" savior, etc.

Gores needs to look himself in the mirror before we can expect real change.

The competence of Casey & Stefanski are nice, but will yield only limited results unless we become tremendously lucky.
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Trade the Coach 2 Y’all

Post  BallinD on Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:42 pm

What team needs an elite rebounder and a backup scoring guard? How about a young defensive (cough - cough) stud, an expiring blazing fast backup pg and a lights out 3&D forward? Or an instant offense tough as nails undersized SG?

We have to let go this illusion folks. Seriously! What is the constant in the last 4 years? Weggie and Dre. Time to cut bait, addition by subtraction, the three Amigos must go. What is the constant: Low BBIQ, questionable motors, poor shooting, chemistry killers, and extreme inconsistency.

Our two leaders (Dre & Weggie) are ok, but simply are not nearly good enough to be considered cornerstones. We can move these pieces if we just accept that they’re not that good and so the returns wont be either. But they can be moved. Forget equal value; don’t do another Josh Smith and hold the cards till they burn your hands? What is the downside to this, nobody thinks they will really win ANYTHING this year. Time to really start over “on the fly.” Just Do It! Get some Piston DNA in here.

Casey is Surely and Obviously SVG 2.0. So he’s not gonna coach us out of this thing.
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Rebuild?

Post  Sparma on Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:01 pm

If Griffin could be traded in a non-disastrous deal first, I'd be good with a rebuild. It'd be great to trade Reggie J, but that'd be tough. Everyone can go, but unless you offload Griffin first without putting yourself in a deeper hole, I doubt there can be a genuine, or successful, rebuild.

Murph wrote:Another heart breaker yesterday, on a last second shot by Fournier.  I can't believe it.  We keep losing games we have a chance to win, and really need to win.  I no longer have any illusions about this team.  34 games into the season, you're only as good as your record, and our record is pretty bad. And it's not going to get any easier any time soon, with games coming up in Milwaukee and Memphis.  Our season is going down in a ball of flames.  

It's probably time to start trading every tradable vet possible, not named Drummond, Kennard, Brown, Johnson and Thomas for young players and draft picks, and do a mini rebuild.  Then make a decision on Drummond when his contract comes due.  It's going to be a long process to rebuild, because of Griffin's contract.  We can'd do a full rebuild until Griffin's contract expires.
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The Hits Just Keep on Coming

Post  Murph on Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:55 am

Another heart breaker yesterday, on a last second shot by Fournier. I can't believe it. We keep losing games we have a chance to win, and really need to win. I no longer have any illusions about this team. 34 games into the season, you're only as good as your record, and our record is pretty bad. And it's not going to get any easier any time soon, with games coming up in Milwaukee and Memphis. Our season is going down in a ball of flames.

It's probably time to start trading every tradable vet possible, not named Drummond, Kennard, Brown, Johnson and Thomas for young players and draft picks, and do a mini rebuild. Then make a decision on Drummond when his contract comes due. It's going to be a long process to rebuild, because of Griffin's contract. We can'd do a full rebuild until Griffin's contract expires.
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Bummer in Indy

Post  Sparma on Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:41 pm

But I didn't see Kennard double clutch once (watched most of the game). And he contributed!

Otherwise....
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Andre Drummond had the right stuff - comments in support of Murph on non basketball issues

Post  cool breeze on Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:39 pm

Very happy to see AD finally dominate on defense for most of the game against Washington. Of course Gortat is no longer a thorn in his side but still AD really had the right stuff on defense. I can't say that same thing relating to Blake Griffin's effort on defense in the first half. When the Pistons go sour, it is because of some of the starters who hold the ball too long or shoot it too much. Galloway gave the Pistons a spark. In the 2nd quarter, Detroit came alive with the second unit and built up a nice lead by sharing the ball and playing scrappy defense. Then the starters came back in a ruined the chemistry. Yet at the start of the 3rd after a suspected scolding by one of the assistant coaches (never Dwayne) Detroit really started to click.

Murph I suspect that nobody on the forum likes the "Deplorable Trump supporters" as Hillary calls us. But I was not surprised that my nephews and nieces said positive things about the Trump agenda where Black unemployment and wages are up at historic highs. Main stream media cannot report real news because it is politics over sanity at all times. Party loyalty is based on faith not reality. I received two books for Christmas "Tucker Carlson's "Ship of Fools" about how the selfish ruling class is bringing America to the brink of revolution. The other book is entitled " Trump's Enemies How the Deep State Is Undermining The Presidency". It was cool to be around my extended family this year and listen to the younger relatives compare stories about their college professors who are all Progressives and determined to eliminate intellectual diversity. Good to hear that there is one Piston fan who is not brain washed. I am not sure if you are a Republican or not. I am not and used to be a liberal democrat who knows liberal democratic individualism is no longer alive within the democratic party. Progressives will send America back into the stone age eventually if they get their wish for complete open borders. Just bring in more voters and they will win. The socialist God will decide our fate as rigid control of thought will be the law and policed by CNN, NBC and MSMBC. The trade deficit of 800 billion will be known as a good thing. Everyone in South America will be welcome because we a a nation of immigrants even though that will hurt the existing illegal immigrants who work on the California farms. More cheap labor of course will somehow help all citizens who are scraping by. It will be good because the Ship of Fools will say it is good. They know what is good for everyone. We are all too selfish as Americans and of course we are all evil because America dropped the A bomb on Japan. Yet Jimmy Carter said that he was for dropping the bomb because if the bombs had not been dropped he would have been killed along with George Bush 1, JFK and my Father who was in the Pacific at the time. I guess whatever the Ship of Fools says is true though and they have a right to revise history to their liking. By the way, there are some republicans on the Ship of Fools that Tucker identifies in that book.

It is good that we have basketball and can enjoy a few more days of bliss before the revolution. Happy New Year to all Piston followers and may you have good health and happiness in 2019. Let's hope we can all get along next year and be tolerant and open minded. My wish is that the Pistons do not throw in the towel again starting in the middle of January.

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Sigh

Post  Murph on Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:39 pm

WTF wrote:
Murph wrote:Right.   You attached "Pistons fans", and I attached "Lions fans."  Again, self-awareness is not your strong suit.

Shouldn't you be somewhere colluding and obstructing  lol lol lol

Sigh. The only colluding and obstructing going on in Washington DC these days is the Democrats colluding with the deep state and the media to run Trump out of office, and the Democrats obstructing Trump's agenda.

Sorry, that was too easy.
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LMAO

Post  WTF on Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:28 am

Murph wrote:Right.   You attached "Pistons fans", and I attached "Lions fans."  Again, self-awareness is not your strong suit.

Shouldn't you be somewhere colluding and obstructing  lol lol lol
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Re: FORUM

Post  Murph on Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:18 am

Right.  You attached "Pistons fans", and I attached "Lions fans."  Again, self-awareness is not your strong suit.
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LMAO

Post  WTF on Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:02 am

Dear Cheerleader wrote:As usual, I'm not the one who started with the attacks.  Self-awareness is not one of your strong suits.  You wrote:

"Hell I even blame many of the fans that sit and settle for 8th seeds and make excuses when they fail.   I know both myself and Don get blasted for being harsh in our assessment of the team but nay fans should be spouting  much of the same things we speak on."

I know Many and Murph both begin with the letter M but I don't recall specifically attacking you.  Seems your sensitivity is getting the best of you again that you felt the need to express your opinion on an unrelated sport. Stick to the subject at hand (Your Pistons)  facepalm
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Re: FORUM

Post  Murph on Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:44 am

As usual, I'm not the one who started with the attacks.  Self-awareness is not one of your strong suits.  You wrote:

"Hell I even blame many of the fans that sit and settle for 8th seeds and make excuses when they fail.   I know both myself and Don get blasted for being harsh in our assessment of the team but nay fans should be spouting  much of the same things we speak on."



1.   I do not feel in any way personally responsible for the Pistons disappointing season.  


2.   I do not at all regret my unrealistic expectations going into the season every year.


3.  I would still get some joy out of the season, if the Pistons only played around .500 and became the 6th - 8th seed.

4.  I try to remember that the Pistons have to work through all the bad contracts that SVG signed, which is going to take at least 2 more years.

Would I like more out of the Pistons?...of course.  But I will enjoy any playoff appearance.
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LMAO

Post  WTF on Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:31 am

Murph wrote:Well then, Lions fans must be sorely disappointed every year.

We are, you won't catch Lions Fans sugar coating losing seasons like many Pistons Fans do.  Attacking Lions Fans won't make the Pistons any better SMH facepalm
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The Definition of Futility

Post  Murph on Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:14 am

WTF wrote:
A Piston Fan wrote:Man, you have to be a really loyal fan, with really low expectations, to follow that team.  I sure wouldn't be talking crap about Pistons fans.  

Lions Fans never go into a season with low expectation  we always believe and expect them to win it all.  We don't make excuses, we don't cheer tiny victories,  any meaningless wins unlike many Pistons Fans do.


Well then, Lions fans must be sorely disappointed every year.


So I looked it up.  Assuming that the Lions had a 50-50 chance of winning any given wild card game, the chances of losing 8 straight WC games are roughly 250-1.

Furthermore, the Lions haven't won a playoff game in 27 years.  The last playoff win was 1991, when Barry Sanders was 23 years old.  Wow.  And in fact, that was the year the Lions won their one and only a playoff game in the 57 year history since the Fords bought the team.

We can piss and moan about Gores, but one playoff game win in 57 years???  That's insane.  Shocked
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Pistons

Post  WTF on Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:57 am

A Piston Fan wrote:Man, you have to be a really loyal fan, with really low expectations, to follow that team.  I sure wouldn't be talking crap about Pistons fans.  

Lions Fans never go into a season with low expectation  we always believe and expect them to win it all.  We don't make excuses, we don't cheer tiny victories,  any meaningless wins unlike many Pistons Fans do.
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Lions

Post  Murph on Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:57 am

I haven't followed the Lions since the early 70s.  Honestly, they've been so bad for so long, that they lost my interest decades ago.  I use to follow them in the days of Joe Schmidt, Lem Barney and Greg Landry.  But they've been so bad ever since, I just stopped following them and started to follow other teams, like the NY Giants.

But man, talk about a putrid team, with putrid owners.  The Fords have owned that team for 57 years.  In that time, the Lions have made the playoffs only 12 times, and have never even made it to a Super Bowl let alone won one.  Not once in 57 years?  Yikes!

To put that in perspective, in that time, the Tigers won 2 World Series.  The Pistons have won 3 NBA Championships.  And the Red Wings have won 4 Stanley Cups.

Only the Lions are without a Championship.  In fact, you have to go back 61 years since the Lions last won in 1957 before the Fords bought the team.  And since the Fords bought the team they have a mind numbingly bad record (375-495), have only made the playoffs 12 times, including 9 straight Wild Card game losses....9 straight.  OMG  facepalm  That's so bad it's funny.

And the Lions are currently putrid again, with a 5-10 record.

Man, you have to be a really loyal fan, with really low expectations, to follow that team.  I sure wouldn't be talking crap about Pistons fans.  lol lol lol
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Happy Days are here again?!

Post  Sparma on Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:44 pm

The Pistons had been 4-10 vs the Wizards, worst record against any Eastern foe, so I'll gladly take it (Porter being out and Gortat gone helped).

An incredible run at the start of the 3rd quarter, 22-2, some of the best basketball I've seen them play.

The "Big Three" combined for 16 TOs.  The team totaled 23.  The 3s rescued us tonight; you can't usually win being so sloppy with the ball.  

Watched the game (posting as Haan at mlive), but the boxscore's interesting too.  Bruce Brown easily best +- guy at +25.  I thought he did well, but that surprises me.  And I'm shocked that Reggie J (with his 8 TOs) finished second best in +/-, maybe a nudge to not taking that stat too seriously.  

The best play of the game was by someone I hadn't heard of: Tomas Sadoransky flew (from close to the FT line) for the dunk.  His only 2 points of the night, but he'll be robbed if he doesn't make top 10 Plays lists.


Last edited by Sparma on Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:55 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Trying to get the numbers right)
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Correction

Post  WTF on Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:17 pm

Oops they're already below .500  My Bad!!!!!! How sad  lol
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Just Some Stuff

Post  WTF on Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:44 am

It's not just Gores that don't speak the words Championship neither does the players or coaches which I find very disturbing.  Even Grant Hill spoke about winning Championships during his time here.  

Hell I even blame many of the fans that sit and settle for 8th seeds and make excuses when they fail.   I know both myself and Don get blasted for being harsh in our assessment of the team but nay fans should be spouting  much of the same things we speak on.  

Sadly this team is right where many of you hoped it would be so I don't understand all the trade talk 32 games in  Cool Okay **** starting to sink for many of you that there is only 82 games long and the team is barely .500 struggling to hold on to an 7th seed with 50 games remaining.  It's just a matter of time before they fall below .500 my guess would be right at the end of January and they'll be on their way to repeating another 39 win season.  Only this time they'll do it with a healthy RJ maybe then you all see exactly what Don means when it comes to AD.

Gores need to be thinking about TANKING  there's always a deal to be made and many of you won't like them but AD should be move for picks and so should BG.  I think a perfect destination for BG would be LA but where to ship AD I don't know but we should at least get a pick or 2 in doing so.  RJ maybe the one that's hard to move.   

We should consider making Kennard and Brown the focal point to rebuild around.  Gee imagine that building around a backcourt hmmmm it worked in the past (Don't Believe Me) ask Joe, Zeke, Chauncey and Rip.     What I would really like to see with this team is roster that looks like we have newer version of a CB and Rip with a Grant Hill at SF,  a Dennis Rodman at PF and a Big Ben at C.  Please Santa Please.
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If So

Post  WTF on Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:07 am

lemonpen wrote:This is the beginning of the end of Staffords career.

If so the Lions better draft well.   I can see Stafford calling it quits in the same manner as Mega, and Barry did.   It's really sad that this organization can take players like these is ruin the careers as far as winning goes.
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Better Days Ahead?

Post  Sparma on Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:03 am

As I remember, Murph described our budget situation moving forward, but it bears repeating.

Next year is still fairly grim, e.g., with 5 mil for Josh Smith on the books, but there is some relief, as we've discussed, e.g., in Ish's 6 mil coming off the books.

It's the following year that sanity returns with coupled exceptions in the form of enormous salaries to Blake (36.6 mil) and Andre (28.7 mil). This year's made me more hopeful that that combination of salaries may not be a total disaster in 2020-21. Beyond that, we's just on the books for youngsters (Kennard for just for a team option, and Brown, Thomas).

Of course, you do need to fill out the roster, but there's some light already next year and a lot more the following year.

I'd say that, so far, the present regime has done solid work (e.g., in the draft) on the whole, even though (a) to my surprise, the Robinson signing's not looking good, and (b) I would have wanted to keep Tolliver for the moderate salary that likely could have done it.

It's quite possible for the present regime to get us on a decent, or at least manageable, financial footing in a couple of years. There seems to be reason to be cautiously optimistic there.

For me, the biggest worry moving forward is the one that Phil described: ownership. If Gores pushes for a series of shortsighted moves, in order to be moderately successful straightaway, we'll be sunk. Maybe, he's learned his lesson, at least as far as casually trading away draft picks goes.

Better days ahead!?
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What If

Post  lemonpen on Tue Dec 25, 2018 9:57 pm

This is the beginning of the end of Staffords career.
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Merry Christmas Piston Nation

Post  lemonpen on Tue Dec 25, 2018 9:53 pm

Peace
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Re: FORUM

Post  Sparma on Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:38 am

Excellent post, Phil.

Merry Christmas to all!


Phil1980boy wrote:I hold Gores totally responsible for the current state of the Detroit Pistons.

Year after year, Orders are forced upon management to make the "playoffs" be "competitive" try to "win "win" "win"


Yet all the teams who started the rebuilding process have steadily passed or are currently passing the Pistons. Denver, Miami, Philadelphia, Brooklyn, Atlanta, soon to be NY Knicks, Milwaukee, Dallas, Boston, LA Lakers, LA Clippers, Sacramento..

In my opinion, the Detroit Pistons legacy has been lost. Year after year Gores settles for A shot at making the 7th or 8th seed in the playoffs. Not one time has Gores ever mention CHAMPIONSHIP!!!


A great disservice has been done to Detroit Pistons fans. The Standard of quality around the Pistons has fell off since Mr. Davison passed away. For the First time in my life the Detroit Pistons don't have A hall of fame owner and I totally see the difference.


I place all blame on Gores Shoulders and I hope he wakes up and gets his S.H.I.T together.
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Re: FORUM

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