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Nice Win....

Post  Murph Today at 6:33 am

Nice OT win last night. I mean as long as we aren't going to tank, we might as well shoot for .500 and the 8th seed. party

Griffin had 30. Drummond had 22 rebounds. Bullock led the team in assists, along with 13 points. Galloway and Kennard provided efficient scoring off the bench. And Zaza returned from injury and was a team high +16 on the night.
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What Might Have Been...

Post  Murph Today at 6:24 am

Sparma, needless to say I was just kidding.  I'm not the confrontational type, and I would never create a scene at a high school basketball game.  And my all accounts Allan Houston is a nice guy and a class act.

But what might have been...  I went back and looked at that teal era Pistons team, and man what talent....Hill, Houston, Dumars (still only 32 at the time), Hunter, Thorpe, Ratliff, Reid and Terry Mills, who really wasn't that bad.  And the coach was of course Doug Collins.

The team won 46 games in Houston's final year, and then 54 games the next year.  Then it all fell apart.  Houston left.  Hill ruined his ankle. Dumars got old.  Hunter never developed.  Thorpe freaked out at Collins and got shipped out of town.  Ratliff got traded.  Collins got fired.  And Mills got replaced by Brian Williams who become Bison Dele, who then quit basketball to sail around the world with his schizophrenic brother, who threw him overboard (you can't make this stuff up.)

Sparma wrote:Wasn't it Grant, along with Houston and Lindsey Hunter?  As I remember NY made Houston an outrageous offer for the time.
What could have been!  I'm guessing you wouldn't have been the first to confront him.

Murph wrote:I saw Allan Houston a couple of nights ago.  My son's high school was playing his son's high school.  His son, Allan Houston III, looks exactly like his father with the same picture perfect feathery jump shot, but he's only 6'1 and so he was recruited to play wide receiver and safety for Brown.  

I was going to go up to Houston and read him the riot act for leaving Grant Hill and the Pistons in the lurch for the Knicks.  But then I decided to let him watch his son's game in peace.   lol


Last edited by Murph on Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: FORUM

Post  Sparma Yesterday at 11:16 pm

Wasn't it Grant, along with Houston and Lindsey Hunter? As I remember NY made Houston an outrageous offer for the time.
What could have been! I'm guessing you wouldn't have been the first to confront him.

Murph wrote:I saw Allan Houston a couple of nights ago.  My son's high school was playing his son's high school.  His son, Allan Houston III, looks exactly like his father with the same picture perfect feathery jump shot, but he's only 6'1 and so he was recruited to play wide receiver and safety for Brown.  

I was going to go up to Houston and read him the riot act for leaving Grant Hill and the Pistons in the lurch for the Knicks.  But then I decided to let him watch his son's game in peace.   lol
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Re: FORUM

Post  Murph Yesterday at 9:26 am

I saw Allan Houston a couple of nights ago.  My son's high school was playing his son's high school.  His son, Allan Houston III, looks exactly like his father with the same picture perfect feathery jump shot, but he's only 6'1 and so he was recruited to play wide receiver and safety for Brown.  

I was going to go up to Houston and read him the riot act for leaving Grant Hill and the Pistons in the lurch for the Knicks.  But then I decided to let him watch his son's game in peace.   lol
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Re: FORUM

Post  BallinD Yesterday at 2:19 am

DX: Loved Oubre, even in the draft, though it was clear even then he would be a bit of a project, but now he's coming into his own, while SJ has mimmicked Weggie and Dre on the teeter totter, up and down, up and down. Makes me question the FO for sure. He was truly just what we needed; oh well.


deusXango wrote:What SF on the Pistons roster was better than Kelly Oubre Jr. and no one heard me...he was traded for scraps that we could've come up with and continues to play within a team concept, at a higher level than our SF's! It was "Beal or bust!"

GRIII is dog doo-doo. Nowhere near as good as advertised and having played for Michigan doesn't change my mind.

Some are wringing their hands at the thought of losing Stanley Johnson, so we can wait through another contract for him to be more than a bust..."I saw signs of a good player, 10 games ago."

Meanwhile

We (the delusional media) talk about trading Bullock ($2.5 million) and keeping Jackson for another year or two ($17 first year and $18 the last)....what's the value of analytics if we can't determine the Reggie that gives us value. Oh, Jackson raised hell in 2015. I know, it's unbelievable, but OTOH, we could get a late first round pick for him if it looks like the season is going in the ****...again! Not buying we can't trade Weggie, I think its mostly fear and stupid nostalgia keeping him here, but that's just me; you know that 2015 thing is like Voodoo or something, it's got a spell on some folks.

Casey preaches consistency and the bench is consistently inconsistent. I'm not going to mention Galloway, only because Jackson is still on the team with a contract that dwarfs Galloways...numbers do matter.

The 2nd round rookies are outplaying the highly paid, clock eating, vets but, there's only room to play one consistently (and he's a starter)….it makes sense to play the weaker one, right? Preaching to the choir, but I do love BB's energy and spunk. I definitely wanna see more Khyri. Been arguing this for weeks.

Questions

Why can't Drummond hold onto the ball? Are all the coaches afraid to tell this nincompoop to stop with that ugly "hook shot?" If half those unforced errors and turnovers by Drummond weren't made, our record would be better right now!

Why isn't the ball hogging, hero ball playing, Reggie Jackson not averaging at least 20 points....he is a member of the BIG3 isn't he? Why is Griffin the only 20 point scorer? Is he that dominate? Nope. I believe Reggie is undermining the team with his piss-poor production and there's no reason for the game he's playing!

Well

No one got behind the Oubre Jr. trade, okay, let's all jump on the Dennis Smith Jr. trade by any means necessary....who do we value more than what Dennis Smith Jr., can mean to the Pistons future? I remember when we turned our noses up at James Harden, when we could've had him for more than what Houston gave up for him! It's a high-risk, high reward strategy, but at this poing, we gotta take calculated risks. Dre and SJ and Weggie for Smith and Deandre plus filler Wes Matthews? Those two are expiring I believe.

With all that being said, I'm still a passionate Pistons fan and ain't ashamed of it either.
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All I Said Was...

Post  deusXango on Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:46 pm

What SF on the Pistons roster was better than Kelly Oubre Jr. and no one heard me...he was traded for scraps that we could've come up with and continues to play within a team concept, at a higher level than our SF's! It was "Beal or bust!"

GRIII is dog doo-doo. Nowhere near as good as advertised and having played for Michigan doesn't change my mind.

Some are wringing their hands at the thought of losing Stanley Johnson, so we can wait through another contract for him to be more than a bust..."I saw signs of a good player, 10 games ago."

Meanwhile

We (the delusional media) talk about trading Bullock ($2.5 million) and keeping Jackson for another year or two ($17 first year and $18 the last)....what's the value of analytics if we can't determine the Reggie that gives us value. Oh, Jackson raised hell in 2015.

Casey preaches consistency and the bench is consistently inconsistent. I'm not going to mention Galloway, only because Jackson is still on the team with a contract that dwarfs Galloways...numbers do matter.

The 2nd round rookies are outplaying the highly paid, clock eating, vets but, there's only room to play one consistently (and he's a starter)….it makes sense to play the weaker one, right?

Questions

Why can't Drummond hold onto the ball? Are all the coaches afraid to tell this nincompoop to stop with that ugly "hook shot?" If half those unforced errors and turnovers by Drummond weren't made, our record would be better right now!

Why isn't the ball hogging, hero ball playing, Reggie Jackson not averaging at least 20 points....he is a member of the BIG3 isn't he? Why is Griffin the only 20 point scorer? Is he that dominate? Nope. I believe Reggie is undermining the team with his piss-poor production and there's no reason for the game he's playing!

Well

No one got behind the Oubre Jr. trade, okay, let's all jump on the Dennis Smith Jr. trade by any means necessary....who do we value more than what Dennis Smith Jr., can mean to the Pistons future? I remember when we turned our noses up at James Harden, when we could've had him for more than what Houston gave up for him!

With all that being said, I'm still a passionate Pistons fan and ain't ashamed of it either.
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Re: FORUM

Post  Sparma on Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:12 pm

Excellent post, Murph. If they do go 8-5 or so, I would be in favor of tweaking, like re-acquiring Tolliver, but I agree entirely that they shouldn't mortgage the future for this mediocre year.

Murph wrote:We are finally finished with the brutal schedule that began on December 1st and ran through last night.  We ended up going a dreadful 6-18 in that stretch.  The injuries to Ish and Zaza did not help.

It looks as if we have a relatively easy schedule coming up for the next month.  We should be able to win 8 or 9 out of the next 13 games, and climb back into playoff contention.

I have mixed emotions about this.  If we go 8-5 or 9-4, and climb back into playoff contention as the 7th or 8th seed, it will only convince management that we are on the right track.  

The podcast by Derey is shocking.  Shocked   It is shocking to think that the Pistons will be buyers ahead of the trade deadline.  That means that management is convinced that this team is improving and headed in the right direction.  No tankathon will be forthcoming.

If we are buyers at the trade deadline, I just hope we don't trade away any 1st round picks or any player younger 25 years old or younger.  We cannot keep mortgaging our future for a shot at the 8th seed.
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Utah was playing with 6 players against 4 in the 3rd quarter - Andre Drummond was playing for Utah in case anyone didn't see the game - Plus the drama around the return of Ish Smith falls flat as expected

Post  cool breeze on Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:53 pm

The Pistons played well in the first half in most respects. Then came the 3rd quarter and the brain dead Andre Drummond playing like he belonged acting in the Adams Family playing Lurch. I am not referring to AD's temptation when everything is going sour and you really need a bucket to launch a 3 point shot. He of course shot an air ball. What was most puzzling is that AD sabotaged the Pistons rotation system for the entire 3rd quarter. He would play based on impulse instead of what was happening when playing defense. When guards were in good position in front of the man they were defending, AD would suddenly jump out on that opposing guard to allow Gobert (number 27) roll and get wide open next to the basket. Players like Kennard and Bullock were left scratching their heads. Also, AD had been scouted really well because everyone on both teams knew that AD never checks his man when an opposing shot goes up. He never turns to see what is behind him. That must be too much work for our All Star. But Gobert must have thought throughout this game that he was playing against the most powerful but dumbest player he has ever played against. When AD would get a pass from Blake and other that should be a sure fire easy dunk, AD instead would jump about one inch and try to shoot a lazy shot at the rim which of course always missed. During some game, take a look at AD's hands. How could he not dunk the ball powerfully if he cares at all about his teammates? Blake Griffin must feel the pain to have to play next to Andre Drummond. I do not believe that AD has the capability to ever learn a defensive rotation system and make the right decisions that all NBA players must make to allow the defensive strategy to work. One smart thing the coach did in this game was sit AD as long as Possible at the start of the 4th. AD was better in one regard, he made two free throws.

A lot of players played well and really hard in this game. It was great to see Thomas out there playing great defense in crunch time. But it was obvious to me that the Pistons were doomed once Dwayne Casey made the move to bring in Ish Smith against Utah's first unit. For the fans who have watched the torture of bogus coaching decisions this season, I guess nothing should be shocking for us. The big question for this coach who was desperate to pin all of the recent loses on injuries to Ish Smith and ZaZa, was why he hasn't figured out that the Pistons do not do well with a ball dominate point guard in crunch time. Reggie Jackson played well for most of this game. He missed two straight defensive assignments and didn't connect on two long distance jump shots. But for most of the game I was very impressed with his defensive effort and decision making on offense. He was seldom guilty of hogging the basketball if at all. must be this coach loves players who hog the basketball and miss 4 or 5 straight shots in crunch time while creating horrible floor spacing and burning up the shot clock. NEWS FLASH DWAYNE!!! YOU HAVE BLAKE GRIFFIN ON YOUR TEAM. Did you forget Dwayne? The opposing team had fun allowing Ish to dribble around which allowed them to have two players on Blake. The floor spacing for every possession was incredibly bad. But still Casey seemed to love it even more because he never made a change. Dwayne was determined to make his story line work. Ish Smith is up beat. He is a catalyst for this team with his quickness an spirit. We have missed him so much. Ish of course has never been a good shooter. He is a guy who can get his team rolling in transition. But in crunch time you need to make stops to do that. There was nobody on the floor that Ish Smith could guard. He looked like a small child out there against Utah.

Players that must be traded before the deadline is Andre Drummond and Ish Smith. What I am most worried about is that this owner who most likely watches the Clippers more than the Pistons might keep the story line alive that a healthy Ish Smith is the cats ass. Other thought differently especially Philly who didn't sign Smith because they decided to keep the un drafted TJ Mc Connell because Ish was too ball dominate and a player who could not match up with any NBA caliber point guard on defense. Reggie Jackson is not my choice of being a crunch time point guard because he has been a horrible defender and too ball dominate in the past. But Reggie is for sure superior to Ish Smith as a basketball player. For this coach to not take Smith out after 4 straight misses he for sure gets the dunce cap award for this game. Dwayne Casey is responsible for this loss and he didn't play one second of the game.

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Draft

Post  Murph on Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:47 am

In the long run, small market teams like to the Pistons are going to have to build winners through the draft.  To successful, the Pistons are going to have to draft well, and develop their picks.  And if Bruce Brown and Khyri Thomas are any indication, Ed Stefanski is excellent at drafting.  Both Brown and Thomas should have been taken in the mid to late 1st round, but Stefanski snagged them in the mid 2nd round.

I'm trying to think who the last GM we had who could draft well, and I think you have to go all the way back to Trader Jack McClosky, who took HOFers Joe Dumars at #18 and Dennis Rodman at #27.

And so far Casey has been great at giving Brown and Thomas playing time and developing them.

Now let's see if Stefanski is as good at making 1st round picks as he is at finding under-valued talent in the mid 2nd round.
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Schedule

Post  Murph on Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:14 am

We are finally finished with the brutal schedule that began on December 1st and ran through last night.  We ended up going a dreadful 6-18 in that stretch.  The injuries to Ish and Zaza did not help.

It looks as if we have a relatively easy schedule coming up for the next month.  We should be able to win 8 or 9 out of the next 13 games, and climb back into playoff contention.

I have mixed emotions about this.  If we go 8-5 or 9-4, and climb back into playoff contention as the 7th or 8th seed, it will only convince management that we are on the right track.  

The podcast by Derey is shocking.  Shocked   It is shocking to think that the Pistons will be buyers ahead of the trade deadline.  That means that management is convinced that this team is improving and headed in the right direction.  No tankathon will be forthcoming.

If we are buyers at the trade deadline, I just hope we don't trade away any 1st round picks or any player younger 25 years old or younger.  We cannot keep mortgaging our future for a shot at the 8th seed.
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Utah

Post  Sparma on Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:31 am

Out to a 9-2 lead, and a very nice half.

The outcome felt inevitable throughout though.
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LA

Post  Sparma on Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:28 pm

Fantastic performance by Blake. Vengence is sweet. But you're right, BallinD, that the very victory points to a problem with the ordinary level of performance. I understand not everyone is going to go all out all of the time; I heard an ex-NBAer saying it happens all the time that players take it easy on D during the regular season, then step it up in the playoffs. Still, I think that effort's been a serious problem a lot this season, eg, vs the Lakers and the Kings. I listened to the Lakers' broadcast, and the suspect Piston effort was brought up repeatedly. Not Blake's though. Flawed as his game is, with his susceptibility to TOs, he goes all out, playing with spirit. Refreshing.

BallinD wrote:Hard to believe we're halfway done with this miserable season.  Telling statements at the end of that exciting Clippers game when Blake said the difference was the team "played hard" that's why they won!  Casey said they maybe need a revenge opponent (LAC, TOR) to get it up for the game, basically saying the same thing, different words.  Pathetic Team. Pathetic culture created by Dre and Weggie, Dos Amigoes.  Deserves to be blown up, but...

On the Pistons Wired podcast, Matt Dery chatted with ESPN's Brian Windhorst who said the team will be buyers at the deadline if anything in an effort to make a push for the playoffs and he agreed with the strategy.  Other pundits speculate that they are waiting for an Ish push to see if the team can compete with Ish and Zaza back, before deciding the next move.

Team grade D

Stay Tuned.  Go Pistons!

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:46 pm

[quote="BallinD"]Hard to believe we're halfway done with this miserable season.  Telling statements at the end of that exciting Clippers game when Blake said the difference was the team "played hard" that's why they won!  Casey said they maybe need a revenge opponent (LAC, TOR) to get it up for the game, basically saying the same thing, different words.  Pathetic Team. Pathetic culture created by Dre and Weggie, Dos Amigoes.  Deserves to be blown up, but...

On the Pistons Wired podcast, Matt Dery chatted with ESPN's Brian Windhorst who said the team will be buyers at the deadline if anything in an effort to make a push for the playoffs and he agreed with the strategy.  Other pundits speculate that they are waiting for an Ish push to see if the team can compete with Ish and Zaza back, before deciding the next move.

Team grade D

Stay Tuned.  Go Pistons!

Thanks for the info about the podcast. It is of course insane to think that a healthy Ish Smith will offer any solution to the problems with this team. He was in the rotation when this team looked horrible. Too many players cannot defend and have little interest in playing defense and although Smith tries harder than some of the defective players, he is way too small to defend NBA caliber players for the most part. However, ZaZa is another matter. I thought hat ZaZa was too old to offer much help as a back up to Drummond but it is up in the air for me to decide if starting a healthy ZaZa might be better than the combination of AD and BG. AD has problems getting back in transition. Blake is often the last player to touch the ball on offense which gives him an excuse for getting back a bit late. ZaZa is a much better all around defender than AD and is more consistent in his effort on defense.

What is making the Pistons an easy out in most games now is that Jon Leuer is playing with the 2nd unit and at times is the only big man on the floor. The coach has decided that Johnson's only value now is to back up Blake playing power forward for a few minutes a game now. Most likely Stanley Johnson is the odd man out if the Pistons try to Move Reggie Jackson's contract. Washington wants to move Wall and Beal or at least that was the talk awhile back. Fans and perhaps this owner might believe that AD has a really high trade value. I have my doubts. To make that trade adding a superior back court to play with Griffin next season, the Pistons might have to give Washington AD, RJ, SJ, and Ish Smith's expiring contract. Tom Gores won't give up on keeping his favorite player, AD so of course the party line will be "just wait until Ish Smith gets healthy. Forget what happened when he was playing shortly before the injury. I will throw up if this coach decides to commit the biggest sin of all to repeat his mistake of playing Smith and Reggie at the same time in crunch time. Add Bullock to that mix and then the team has 4 inferior defenders playing together in the most important moments of the games. i believe that if SVG had not been fired and had played some of the combinations that Dwayne Casey has come up with, SVG would have been fired before Christmas.

The Pistons owner has lacked the vision to create a winning team since he bought the team. How can anyone expect he will do the right thing before the trade deadline? But at least Tom Gores did bring in one player who at times can play incredibly well. I haven't seen any Piston player in the last 6 years play like Blake played in this last game. His contract is a killer but if the owner will part with AD and RJ and bring in a superior back court, the Pistons could be fun to watch again. This team will need a center. I wish the Pistons could get Holmes who is a back up for Ayton on the Suns team. He looks like a young Ben Wallace at times and not only plays hard as hell on defense but is developing some offensive skills.

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Halfway Home for 2018-19

Post  BallinD on Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:14 pm

Hard to believe we're halfway done with this miserable season. Telling statements at the end of that exciting Clippers game when Blake said the difference was the team "played hard" that's why they won! Casey said they maybe need a revenge opponent (LAC, TOR) to get it up for the game, basically saying the same thing, different words. Pathetic Team. Pathetic culture created by Dre and Weggie, Dos Amigoes. Deserves to be blown up, but...

On the Pistons Wired podcast, Matt Dery chatted with ESPN's Brian Windhorst who said the team will be buyers at the deadline if anything in an effort to make a push for the playoffs and he agreed with the strategy. Other pundits speculate that they are waiting for an Ish push to see if the team can compete with Ish and Zaza back, before deciding the next move.

Team grade D

Stay Tuned. Go Pistons!

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Clippers

Post  Sparma on Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:15 am

They worked hard and long (as starters) and the shots were falling. Outstanding effort.

A game for the ages for Blake.

And, yes, let's hope it doesn't distract from the rebuild moving forward.

Phil1980boy wrote:I had no idea Blake was this talented. Most importantly, I had no Idea Blake was this competitive.

It's been so long since the Pistons had competitive, talented players. Maybe since RIP Hamilton and Ben Wallace.

I was nice to see the guy rally around Blake and give him some effort and not embarrass him in LA.

Now, on with the rebuild...


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Blake

Post  Phil1980boy on Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:22 am

I had no idea Blake was this talented. Most importantly, I had no Idea Blake was this competitive.

It's been so long since the Pistons had competitive, talented players. Maybe since RIP Hamilton and Ben Wallace.

I was nice to see the guy rally around Blake and give him some effort and not embarrass him in LA.

Now, on with the rebuild...


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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:58 pm

Murph wrote:Don, I think you are willfully missing the point of my post.  Regardless of what you think of Reggie Jackson, the problem was fixable up until the time we traded Harris, a 1st rounder and filler for Griffin.  We could have brought in another PG and/or another coach to run a different offense.  We still would have had a very young core, anchored by the 25 year old Drummond and 25 year old Harris, to build around.  Once we made the trade, we instantly went from a young, improving team with potential to an older, declining team that is financially capped out.

What we needed to do when Jackson got hurt was acquire another PG, not acquire the Griffin and his albatross of a contract.

Sorry Murph. I failed to read your post carefully. I agree with everything you said here.

Tom Gores ignored both SVG's and the GM's advise not to make that Blake Griffin trade. This is all on Tom Gores. But what can Tom do now to get the Pistons back on track? I believe it is time to end the era of Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond. You can get rid of RG without including AD. They are buddies and will be happy to join another team if they can be together. What if Washington might be interested in acquiring AD and RJ knowing that RJ has only one year left on his contract after this season. I doubt they are interested because Gortat always got the best of AD in their matchups. Washington brain trust saw AD's faults up close. But I wonder still if they might agree to trade Beal and Wall's contract to the Pistons. They could move AD and buy out Jackson and solve their financial problems. Wall has a heal injury but is it career ending? If not by acquiring two top tier back court players to play with Griffin would really energize the fan base. Old time Piston fans have not bonded with either Jackson or Drummond. Fans would bond with Wall and Beal. The Pistons could include Bullock and Smith's contracts as well which are expiring. I would like to get into the sweepstakes involving Anthony Davis but that would be asking for too much. Getting two good solid players at point and the 2 would remind fans of the past. They would get behind the Pistons and come out of the woodwork. But with that said, the Pistons would also need a center out of the Beal and Wall deal. Yet they could draft a center next summer if they do not give up another first round pick. There must be some deal out there that can make the Pistons better. What is it?

I am about at the point where I am going to stop watching this Piston team and just follow the college teams. It is no longer fun. Our billionaire owner might have already stopped watching and could be having his management team send out instructions to the announcers and the supporting cast to make excuses. The Lakers game where Labron was in street clothes was humiliating for the players and fans. Yet with all the tough talk about playing harder by Casey in the pre game interview, the Kings made the Pistons look like a G League team. The Kings were having a lot of fun while our Piston players looked as if they wanted to crawl into a big hole and hide.

I know you don't like Henry Ellenson but last night was for sure a game where Henry should have started and played a lot of minutes. But this coach picked Jon Leuer. And Leuer looked horrible against the lakers. Maybe Ellenson didn't make the West Coast trip. With ZaZa out and only AD and Leuer healthy, how can anyone support this coach when he fails to bring up a G League big man or play Ellenson?? And Casey rejected signing Moreland. Where is Eric Moreland?

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If the Pistons do not get out of the stone age and acquire top draft picks for the next 3 years, the Detroit Pistons will stay in purgatory where they now rest

Post  cool breeze on Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:15 pm

Will the announcers continue the propaganda that injuries are the cause of the Pistons failure to improve or have a chance to become an elite team? Ish Smith and now ZaZa seem to be the reason why Detroit is not leading the league in victories if one listens to this nonsense. The reason why Detroit continues to be inconsistent on both offense and defense is due to the fact that they do not have the right players combined with the fact that they do not have the right leadership with the head coach as well as the ownership group. In fairness to this coaching staff, they are using the hand they were dealt. With ZaZa being injured, there is direct exposure to the failings of management to hold on to Eric Moreland who can play circles around Jon Leuer. How much would that have cost the Pistons to keep Moreland? What we are seeing is pure lack of interest by Andre Drummond, Blake Griffin and Leuer to protect the paint. You have to get back in transition quickly to be an effective paint protector. You need to move your feet quickly and anticipate to stop drivers in the paint. You certainly cannot stand and watch the drivers go around you. This is what AD does best. There should be a stat for AD to show how many times per game an opponent who goes around the first line of perimeter defense also goes by AD unopposed. This is a first half habit of AD and has been for his entire career. Every NBA team is attacking and becoming successful scoring in the paint. But management has sent the message to their employees, tell them the problem is that we don't have Ish Smith.

Smith needs to be traded not re signed. Smith is a liability on defense. If the Pistons acquire some good players in the future, how good with the team be if they make the playoffs and Ish Smith plays? No the strategy will be to go at Smith when the Pistons are on defense. Now with Smith out, opposing teams are going full out against two starters, Reggie Jackson and Reggie Bullock. Neither can stop dribble penetration. Neither have any protection from their All Star center who provides zero assistance against any alien beings who enter his space. How much longer will we have to suffer watching this foolishness? The same players who cause the most turnovers and ineffective defense are still wearing Piston uniforms. But management will wait until Smith returns about the time the team plays a bottom feeder who is trying hard to lose games so as to position themselves for the next draft and then say see this team is loaded with potential.

The owner got the Pistons into this problem with signing the wrong players to impossible to move contracts. So Tom Gores needs to do something new to get the Pistons on track for future success. What is going on now is the best this team is going to play. Notice in this last game where several times the Kings were building a lead and the Pistons really needed a basket, what was the strategy? How many teams have you been on where the coach would want you to take a contested 3 point shot. You really have to score to stay in the game. So you take a contested 3 point shot as the strategy????? No somehow you have all players moving fast without the basketball setting screens and getting the correct floor spacing. You try to get an open shot as close to the basket as you possible can. But with the Pistons that is not an option. They rely so much on standing around and then going one on one before shooting an impossible 3 point attempt that it is clear either the coaching staff has absolutely no control of things or the Players are all morons. I am not buying this idea that the Players do not have a competitive fire like the teams they are playing against. I think the overall strategy is so bad that the players feel they have no hope to win at all. The players know they can't make the shots that they are getting in Casey's offense. They also know that because of the style of offense where any player can suddenly go up for a 3 point shot regardless of where his teammates are located on the floor, that opposing players will have a huge advantage when they make the charge to the basket the Pistons need to protect in transition. In Casey's offense, there are too many Piston players standing either on both baselines or in the paint under the basket.

Andre Drummond's performance against the Lakers should have put him on the trade block. He was a hotdog who was trying to show off but whenever he tried to show off, he either turned the ball over or shot an air ball. Leuer started the second half of the Lakers game. What happened at halftime in the Piston locker room? All I can say is that AD looked like he was a over confident rookie playing his first NBA game. Everything backfired for him. As the announcers were saying, what is he doing?? Your team is getting scored on at will inside the paint and your center is thinking about his next 3 point attempt??????? The ship has sailed for the Pistons. We are all waiting for the day when we don't have to watch AD and RJ ever again. I also do not want any additional moments watching Ish Smith either. And over the past two games, Jon Leuer has looked a lot like he did before that injury two seasons ago. He is ineffective playing either power forward or back up center. But I prefer watching Leuer to AD. It was fun to see Brown, Bullock, Johnson, Kennard playing together. The problem was that they had to play with Reggie Jackson. Right now this team looks a lot like the team that embarrassed all Piston fans two seasons ago. That was the time when almost every game the Pistons looked defeated in the first quarter. Then if the starters were safely on the bench the bench guys made the games somewhat closer. But then came the 3rd quarter where the starters got their asses kicked very quickly as they played in a fog of dysfunction. The team chemistry was horrible with the leadership of RJ and AD. Since those two players became the cats ass, team chemistry has continued to slide.

Message to management. Please buy out Leuer. Please trade Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson. Include Smith's expiring contract to make some type of deal work. Force the coaching staff to show they are capable of teaching the players how to play another style similar to the Spurs. Are they capable of doing that? Maybe the assistant coaches have the energy to attempt that type of change but I doubt this head coach has it in him. He seems to be the type of coach who throws out the basketball and doesn't make any waves. I might be wrong but when Casey gives a pre game interview and blames this string of pitiful performances on the lack of Ish Smith in the lineup, who in their right mind can have any faith in him???? The Pistons offer no resistance in the painted area where all teams are scoring at will even when they have a 2nd rate combination of big men. How many games does this owner actually watch? Is he watching the Clippers instead of the Pistons??

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Re: FORUM

Post  Murph on Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:45 pm

Don, I think you are willfully missing the point of my post.  Regardless of what you think of Reggie Jackson, the problem was fixable up until the time we traded Harris, a 1st rounder and filler for Griffin.  We could have brought in another PG and/or another coach to run a different offense.  We still would have had a very young core, anchored by the 25 year old Drummond and 25 year old Harris, to build around.  Once we made the trade, we instantly went from a young, improving team with potential to an older, declining team that is financially capped out.

What we needed to do when Jackson got hurt was acquire another PG, not acquire the Griffin and his albatross of a contract.
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Pistons offensive style with the current players allows too many easy transition baskets - That is on the coaching staff

Post  cool breeze on Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:09 am

Murph is right, Andre Drummond looks miserable. But that is on him. Andre looks like a dinosaur who belongs in another era yet I wonder if any coach in previous time periods would tolerate the amount of turnovers he is responsible for causing. Last night the Pistons needed Drummond to get his butt back quickly on defense. He was the only big man this team had. But as in previous games. AD was AWOL seldom providing any resistance especially in the first half.

Murph I respectfully disagree with your take on this idea that the old pick and roll combination of AD and RJ would make any difference. This only worked for one half of one season the year that RJ arrived in Piston land. Opposing teams started loving it when SVG based everything on AD and RJ and their pick and roll game. The other 3 players were not part of the offense. Because of the quality of players who have come from the draft since Reggie Jackson first arrived in Detroit has created more teams that have higher end all around players. While that happened, the Pistons owner went in a different direction trying to shed draft picks and signing players like Jon Leuer who cannot guard power forwards or centers. The problem with the Pistons is management because they have not done their job in securing enough young talent while holding on to players who have a long history of being on losing teams. Last night when RJ returned in the 2nd quarter at about the 5 minute mark, he went back to his old style dribbling the ball up the court and continuing to dribble around trying to create himself but mostly trying to find AD or a hole to squeeze into to get into the paint. He had the ball swatted away towards the end of the shot clock. Johnson grabbed the ball on the baseline and passed it back to RJ. Rj fired away and shot an air ball. RJ then failed to get back on defense quickly. Johnson was still on the baseline while the Kings were sprinting back to make another easy basket. Until RJ returned during that period, the Pistons were looking more like a real team. After that play, the Kings went on a roll and the Pistons looked like the Washington Generals. Meanwhile, Reggie Jackson makes $17 Million perhaps more than any of those Kings players. Andre Drummond makes in the mid 25M range. The ineffective Jon Leuer who is one tenth the player Moreland was last season makes close to $10M. The other players who played pretty good together last night make very little money but play smarter and with more effort. The highest paid athletes on this team play with the lowest basketball IQ and effort with the exception of Blake Griffin who is a horrible fit with this team.

Another area of nonsense that needs to be cleared up is this propaganda being created by the owner and his head coach, Dwayne Casey. In pre game, Casey talked about what is wrong with the Pistons. He blamed it on Ish Smith being injured which has been the theme talked about by the announcers too much. Ish Smith is a horrible defender. The Pistons cannot stop any team in the paint. That is where they get beat night after night. Opposing teams are getting easy transition baskets because of the way the Pistons play offense as well as their biggest problem which is the lack of motivation by either Andre Drummond or Blake Griffin to sprint from baseline to baseline after an opponent gets a defensive rebound. Also, the style of play this coach uses where he insists on his players taking contested 3 point shots always creates bad spacing on the floor which prevents guards from getting their asses back in transition quick enough. Opposing teams have all scouted the Pistons. It is not a fluke that Detroit is getting their asses beat with or without Smith of ZZ. Opposing teams know they have a game plan that will work against the Pistons. They speed up the game and out two big men, AD and BG are nowhere to be seen in the paint where they belong. Dwayne Casey has his hands full trying to make this roster work. But he is also his worst enemy because he cannot create a new style or change things but benching RJ and scrapping the idea that Smith is good for the team. Casey needs to try Luke Kennard at the point guard position or someone from the G League. Also, Stanley Johnson is standing beyond the 3 point line and looks has very little part in the offense. But when he brings the ball up court after he steals the ball, something good usually happens. The coach should notice that Johnson is a good play maker and can see the floor well. He needs to be used as a facilitator and touch the ball a lot. Both Kennard and Johnson have good play making skills that are not being used. That shows me that this coach is still determined to play his big contracts and that is corrupt by any standards. The coach is a politician who is trying to please his owner and make it all work with the players who are nailing down the most money. The owner is the guy who created this mess and the coach must be a real coward or an idiot. Reggie Jackson and Ish Smith are the weakest defenders in the NBA at their positions.

The Pistons can't stop any team now. Logic and reason is long gone in Piston land. Yet when the greatest of all Pistons, Isiah Thomas speaks on NBA TV, he makes perfect sense. Why has this owner shut him out and failed to hire him in some capacity? The answer is this owner does not want to hear what Zeke will tell him. He loves AD and RJ. They were his team leaders before BG. Now we have BG, AD and RJ running the rudder less ship. The coach just throws out the basketball and says great job AD and RJ. Keep doing what you are doing. Everything will turn around. Just wait and see.

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Re-Cap

Post  Murph on Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:32 am

Sorry, I just liked this team a whole lot better when Weggie and Drummond were running the pick-n-roll, and when Drummond was the team leader.  Along with all our other problems, this version of the Pistons seems to have drained the life out of Drummond.  He no longer looks as if he's having fun.  Maybe it would have happened anyway; I mean we all get old.  But Drummond looks miserable, and he's playing like it.


IMO, our real problems started last December 26, when Reggie Jackson sprained his ankle.  Reggie was playing at the top of his game/career.  In fact, in that game before the injury, Reggie had 13 assists, and was on pace to have a career night in assists, and the Pistons were cruising with a 19-14 record.

After that injury, the Pistons predictably struggled.  But instead of finding a replacement at starting PG, the Pistons did nothing.  They started Ish Smith, and brought D-Leaguer Dwight Buycks off the bench.  The results were disastrous.  The Pistons lost their next 12 out of 15 games, fell out of playoff contention and went into panic mode.  

So then what did the Pistons do?  Did they acquire a starting PG, to try to save their season???  Nooooo.  They mortgaged their future for the next 5 years, traded away their 25 year old rising young star, Tobias Harris, along with their 1st round pick, and the valuable center Boban...for an aging, injury prone, former all-star, on the downside of his career, with the single worst contract in the NBA.  Game over.
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Sacramento

Post  Sparma on Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:43 am

Had read a nice piece at 538 about Sac's relentless, game long, pace; figured we were in trouble even before hearing Blake was sitting.

At one point, Casey pulled Kennard after being in 10 seconds (shades of SVG!). Kennard evidently blew up, and needed to be restrained. We'll be hearing more about that. Ellis already tweeted something.

Good game by Stanley, even though he ended up at -17.

Also, maybe Bruce Brown's best game.

For me the real silver lining was that Thomas played, and played well, making impossible to bury him on the bench the next two weeks. Or...?
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Re: FORUM

Post  Sparma on Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:52 am

And that's without you including Mitchell and/or Book, which takes only a little more stretch of the imagination.

Yes, we're in a terrible spot. I actually think there will be a mild turnaround soon. But the outlook for the future looks terrible.

BD cites Gores twice (!) speaking of trusting of process. Sadly delusional.

Desperate measures are needed. And I don't see them coming with Gores at the helm. He clearly isn't down with tanking. And neither is Casey. I just hope this mess doesn't end up stationed in Seattle.

Murph wrote:I have never been less hopeful about the future of the Pistons.  Not only do we suck, but we have very few young players who are developing.  Only Kennard, Brown, Thomas and maybe Johnson are still improving.  The rest of our vets, believe it or not, are at the peaks of their careers or already on the downside and will only get worse from here.


Our chemistry is terrible.  Our ball movement it terrible.  Our shooting is terrible.  And our defense is terrible.  We are worse than the sum of our parts, and getting worse not better as the season goes on.


Really, there is nothing to do but blow this team up and start the 6 year tankathon.  And I hate tanking.  But in our case, it's the only option.  I figure it will take 6 years.

We can trade Drummond, and maybe Ish and Bullock.  But we are stuck with Griffin for 4 more years.  So that means, we are going to be just really bad, not terrible.  With Griffin, we'll continue to win like a third of our games every year, and end up with like the 8th pick in the lottery every year, until Griffin's contract finally expires in 4 years.  Then we'll be one of the worst 3 teams in the league for the next 2 years or so, until we snag a couple of bonified stars in the draft, and begin to improve.


So for the next 4 years, we'll collect something like four #8 picks, and then in years 5 and 6, we'll snag top 3 picks, and then begin to improve, and eventually get really, really good.  But I doubt I'll live to see it.



I was just fantasizing last night.  How would you like to be fielding this lineup:

Dinwiddie, Jackson, Smith
Bullock, Kennard, Brown
Harris, Johnson, Bullock
Tolliver, Harris, Moreland
Drummond, Moreland, Boban

I might be kidding myself, but I think the above team would win 50 games and make it to the 2nd round, which looks like heaven right now.  And the bizarre thing is that we had/have all of those players.  All we had to do was not give them away for nothing.  My head hurts.   facepalm


I see Jimmy Butler is beginning to work his magic in Philly. He already hates the coach, and he hates not being the man.  How long will it be before Butler and Embiid are at each other's throats?   eat
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Slow Motion Train Wreck

Post  Murph on Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:20 am

I have never been less hopeful about the future of the Pistons.  Not only do we suck, but we have very few young players who are developing.  Only Kennard, Brown, Thomas and maybe Johnson are still improving.  The rest of our vets, believe it or not, are at the peaks of their careers or already on the downside and will only get worse from here.


Our chemistry is terrible.  Our ball movement it terrible.  Our shooting is terrible.  And our defense is terrible.  We are worse than the sum of our parts, and getting worse not better as the season goes on.


Really, there is nothing to do but blow this team up and start the 6 year tankathon.  And I hate tanking.  But in our case, it's the only option.  I figure it will take 6 years.

We can trade Drummond, and maybe Ish and Bullock.  But we are stuck with Griffin for 4 more years.  So that means, we are going to be just really bad, not terrible.  With Griffin, we'll continue to win like a third of our games every year, and end up with like the 8th pick in the lottery every year, until Griffin's contract finally expires in 4 years.  Then we'll be one of the worst 3 teams in the league for the next 2 years or so, until we snag a couple of bonified stars in the draft, and begin to improve.


So for the next 4 years, we'll collect something like four #8 picks, and then in years 5 and 6, we'll snag top 3 picks, and then begin to improve, and eventually get really, really good.  But I doubt I'll live to see it.



I was just fantasizing last night.  How would you like to be fielding this lineup:

Dinwiddie, Jackson, Smith
Bullock, Kennard, Brown
Harris, Johnson, Bullock
Tolliver, Harris, Moreland
Drummond, Moreland, Boban

I might be kidding myself, but I think the above team would win 50 games and make it to the 2nd round, which looks like heaven right now.  And the bizarre thing is that we had/have all of those players.  All we had to do was not give them away for nothing.  My head hurts.   facepalm


I see Jimmy Butler is beginning to work his magic in Philly. He already hates the coach, and he hates not being the man.  How long will it be before Butler and Embiid are at each other's throats?   eat
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Another Embarassment in LA

Post  BallinD on Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:35 am

This sh!tshow comes to you with clueless Gores sitting there in LA watching his handiwork and the lackluster performance of his favorite sons Dre and Weggie along with Blake and the cast of minions.

Gores via Rod Beard: "I like this team.  I think we can get through adversity.  (Wut? Huh?) We have to have a culture of winning. We just have to trust the process.  We have to have a culture of winning.  We just have to do the little things and see what happens (cue fat lady singing Figaro as team freefalls into lottery). They really do care about this.  We have to trust the process." (PROCESS? Does this mean Tankathon is already underway and we just don't know it? He obviously told Casey.)

Earth to Gores:  It's gonna either take a helluva lot of "little things," or he's totally wrong (likely) and it just might take some BIG THINGS to turn this Titanic around. BTW, Casey said the team will have to go to a Zone, since they can't defend.

Anomalies:  Kuzma/Lebron went off for 41 in 3 quarters while our two stoppers Johnson and Brown flailed about.  Blake got ZERO rebounds, Dre goes 2-12 and Javale Mcgee made Dre look like he was Shaqtin-a-fool.  Casey continues to maintain "shots will fall,"  or is he really saying "Sh!t will fall? Galloway sighting; the streaker was streaking; his once-in-every-5-game wakeup call.
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Re: FORUM

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