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Post  lemonpen Today at 6:48 pm

I'm excited about seeing the kids compete in the summer league. Seven seems like a lot of kids but I don't expect to see some of them beyond the first game.

BROWN: Ok, scratch that itch and play him a PG for the 1st gm. My greater interest will be in seeing if there has been improvement on the offensive side of the court. Particularly with his jumper. Other than that why risk injury.

2nd Rnd EURO: There is a strong possibility that he will return to Europe after SL so limit his burn. Give him a cup of coffee then slide over for guys with NBA contracts.

KING: Hasn't he kind of established a name in the G-League, and also been designated a recipient of one of our 2 2-way contracts. There may be little to prove.

BONE: Holder of the other 2-way contract. Yeah, feed him all of the PG PT he can stand in gm#2-5. He has more to prove.

THOMAS: Ditto Bone comment.

SVI: Ditto Bone comment except SG PT.

SEKOU: 48 x 5 Please !!!!
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Post  Oracle Today at 5:37 pm

While Westbrook may be a tough one to live up to, Bruce is very explosive like that. I read that he will likely get the start at PG for the first game of summer league because Bone won't be available until after the first game.

Summer League Issues: The good news is that we have a LOT of young players to view, the bad news is that we have a LOT of young players to view! This could be a major problem because it will make it difficult to showcase any individual player very often without compromising the value we need to get out of seeing them in situations we want to evaluate.

We've got Bruce, Thomas & Svi as 2nd year players, all three rookies from this draft and our pickup of Louis King to showcase... That's a lot of youngsters to deal with in a small sample of games.

Loads of talent to be sure... this should be very interesting for EVERY Piston fan!!!
Phil-Good wrote:Bruce has A very special opportunity to be A great Detroit Piston. This kid has all the Pistons DNA you could ever ask for. I would love to see Bruce get A opportunity to be the starting PG full time. If Bruce adds A mid-range game and A solid 3-ball; this kid could get the job done. Call me crazy but Bruce has some Westbrook to his game.

Bruce. 2000 shots per day minimum. Practice using your left hand only, and don't burn out your legs before the season starts.


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Post  Oracle Today at 5:16 pm

"Who might have the highest basketball IQ for the returning players? I say it is Luke Kennard." - Don


What exactly do you base this on?


I haven't seen Kennard in enough situations to make this level of judgement. In fact, it's safe to say that several Pistons are likely higher BBall IQ than a 2 year player could possibly be, including Drummond.


I don't understand what you get out of making these wild assertions, but obviously it does something for you, but it serves no useful function to dwell on this subject. Could everyone on this team get better? Obviously, and the same is true for every other team in the NBA.
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Post  Murph Today at 10:54 am

Don...is Stanley Johnson even going to be in the League next season? lol lol lol
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Post  cool breeze Today at 10:50 am

Murph wrote:I wonder is Bruce Brown could play reserve PG.  He showed playmaking skills in last summer's Summer League.  If he could play reserve PG, that would solve a whole host of problems.  We wouldn't have to tie up money on a FA reserve PG.  We would develop that big PG and big backcourt that we need, and Brown would get the minutes that he needs to develop off the bench.


Phil...enjoy watching Drummond for the next 6 years at least, after we resign him to a max contract.  lol lol lol

Who might have the highest basketball IQ for the returning players? I say it is Luke Kennard. Why was an All State quarterback in high school. Why is he not our starting point guard? He plays better defense than Reggie Jackson. If you are talking about the 2nd unit, I think Brown can play that PG for sure. But what puzzles me is why Casey has not tried Luke at the point. He can see the court. He would be playing both sides of the floor instead of 1 like Reggie and Ish Smith. He does not waste the shot clock dribbling excessively.

Why do you like Drummond so much Murph? I rate him the lowest grade of any starting center since Laimbeer relating to IQ, energy on defense. Monroe was superior to AD in my opinion. Both play below average defense but Monroe does have some offensive skills unlike AD. $25 plus million could be spent on a top rated guard. In the NBA you do not win with a low basketball IQ center who has been identified by his previous coach as having the bad habit of not being engaged as a player on the court during real games. Who do you know who makes 25 plus million that has that bad habit? Will he get out on shooters? NO. Sorry but Phil is correct along with many Piston fans who have stopped watching the Pistons because AD is the franchise player of all things. Maybe you know something that I don't know. But it will not work just to call some of us AD doubters "haters". That is an argument of intimidation used often by the radical leftists in politics. Using words like "hater" or "racist" etc. is a tactic that ends intellectual thought which course is the goal of those who want to end intellectual diversity. Yet perhaps you have some information that might involve a weight loss campaign that AD might be using over the summer or maybe you know that he is busy with conditioning so he will run instead of jog back in transition defense. Who jogs in the NBA who makes over $25 mil? AD is for sure not the worst player on this Piston team. We have a lot of average to below average players but my point is that he is making too much money for the skill set and energy he provides. I keep waiting for him to wake up and become the best player is is capable of being. But I suspect he is more interested in his musical career.

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Post  Murph Today at 8:03 am

I wonder is Bruce Brown could play reserve PG.  He showed playmaking skills in last summer's Summer League.  If he could play reserve PG, that would solve a whole host of problems.  We wouldn't have to tie up money on a FA reserve PG.  We would develop that big PG and big backcourt that we need, and Brown would get the minutes that he needs to develop off the bench.


Phil and Don...enjoy watching Drummond for the next 6 years at least, after we resign him to a max contract.  lol lol lol


Last edited by Murph on Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post  Phil-Good Today at 4:59 am

Bruce has A very special opportunity to be A great Detroit Piston. This kid has all the Pistons DNA you could ever ask for. I would love to see Bruce get A opportunity to be the starting PG full time. If Bruce adds A mid-range game and A solid 3-ball; this kid could get the job done. Call me crazy but Bruce has some Westbrook to his game.

Bruce. 2000 shots per day minimum. Practice using your left hand only, and don't burn out your legs before the season starts.


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Post  cool breeze Yesterday at 10:01 pm

Oracle wrote:This is just my feeling, but I think these things have a high probability of happening, and if we get most of them, I can see a 2nd round appearance.

Some of it may seem bad, but I'm not sure that it is, and I won't cover everyone, just a few, so here goes.

PLAYERS
Reggie Jackson: I think that last year was him getting his sea legs, and this season, he'll show that he's gained some of his explosiveness back.

Blake Griffin: I don't think we'll see All Star Blake regularly, I think he'll be different and play like an all star maybe every 5th game or so. It sounds like a step back, but I think the reason will be that the team has stepped up and we don't need him to do everything anymore.

Andre Drummond: This is the big one! Drummond, I really hope, takes his game a notch up on both ends. I only agree with Don on one big point here, I think he could stand to lose about 10-15 pounds to increase his endurance to play full force for every minute he's on the court. BTW, that increases career longevity as well as reducing injuries.

Luke Kennard: I don't expect any more out of him yet, just better consistency. He will show up in more games and stop being in anyone's shadow. I also think he should be inserted as SG in the starting lineup for additional offensive punch.

Bruce Brown: Moved to the bench as SG behind Kennard. This is an important move for the Pistons and Bruce. Moving him to the bench and changing his role from just a defensive specialist to being relied on to be one of the primary scorers will unlock the potential we saw in his first summer league. He is capable of being a high octane scorer, but if he doesn't use it, it won't happen.

Starting Lineup
Reggie, Luke, Snell, Blake, Drummond

Rotation Players
Brown, Thomas, Svi, Maker, Sekou, New Backup Center, New backup PG

Finishing Games
Blake, Drummond, Reggie/Luke, Snell, Sekou/Maker

Notes: Getting to the 2nd round is tough if you don't finish in the top 4 and have home court, but it also depends on how well you're playing at the end of the season.

We'll make predictions before the season starts, and a big factor in that will be how teams shake out after all the moves have been finished.

The east landscape could look entirely different. Boston could be much less a factor, the Raptors without Kawhi could be toast, Philly could take a step back, so the top 4 spots of the conference could be wide open.

Here I am thinking that the Pistons will not even make the playoffs and would be surprised if they could manage to win one game if they made it, you provide a different take on the team which is interesting at least. Don't forget that Galloway is still on the team and in the coaches Son. How will some of the players you mentioned get enough minutes to show their stuff? But I think you are on the money relating to Reggie Jackson. He has been saving all his strength over the past 3 seasons to play his ass off in his contract year. That is the way some NBA players do it. Will Tom Gores then offer Reggie a giant contract maybe just a few million under AD's new gift? Tom knows what he is doing for sure so why should we worry?

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Post  cool breeze Yesterday at 9:56 pm

Murph wrote:We’ll see.  I have never been particularly impressed with your past predictions.  I think you are wrong about Drummond and will continue to be wrong.  

You watch, the Pistons will offer Drummond something like 5 years at $160 - 175, and Drummond will take it.  You'll get to enjoy watching Drummond for years to come.  Smile

Murph bless you but tell me you have actually been watching the Pistons on television over the past three seasons. Andre Drummond has perhaps the lowest basketball mind that I have ever been forced to watch because I love the Pistons. I have to watch the Pistons. That is my sickness. But why you like Drummond especially after his performance during the 4 game losing streak at the end of the season and the 4 games he played in the playoffs will never be understood my me. Yet I do not disagree with you that the Pistons will offer AD some insane contract. Tom Gores has a love affair going with Andre Drummond. We have seen the Mother-Son relatingships in the past with the Pistons with my current favorite being Casey-Galloway. Langston must really be a brown nose to have received all those minutes last season. We had the Rick Carlisle-Michael Curry sweet that put Prince at the end of the bench for most of his rookie season. And of course who can get over the tough love Mother-Son affair SVG and AD had. SVG went to AD's aid after that players only meeting scolding all the players who ganged up against Reggie (his other son) and AD the Giant Pre Game Dancer. What will happen next? Will one of the owners bring in one of their Sons to become an assistant coach next year? Yes Drummonds will get rewarded once again for attending the Gores Family barbecue this summer. It is so much fun rubbing elbows with NBA players off the court.

So while the Pistons spend wildly on their inept front court, fans will get to watch the 2nd and 3rd tier guards try to compete with the real studs who own the backcourt. Isn't it fun to watch low IQ basketball? Phil you are the voice of reason on this issue. I am puzzled with Murph who I agree a lot with on most issues.

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Post  Oracle Yesterday at 8:20 pm

This is just my feeling, but I think these things have a high probability of happening, and if we get most of them, I can see a 2nd round appearance.

Some of it may seem bad, but I'm not sure that it is, and I won't cover everyone, just a few, so here goes.

PLAYERS
Reggie Jackson: I think that last year was him getting his sea legs, and this season, he'll show that he's gained some of his explosiveness back.

Blake Griffin: I don't think we'll see All Star Blake regularly, I think he'll be different and play like an all star maybe every 5th game or so. It sounds like a step back, but I think the reason will be that the team has stepped up and we don't need him to do everything anymore.

Andre Drummond: This is the big one! Drummond, I really hope, takes his game a notch up on both ends. I only agree with Don on one big point here, I think he could stand to lose about 10-15 pounds to increase his endurance to play full force for every minute he's on the court. BTW, that increases career longevity as well as reducing injuries.

Luke Kennard: I don't expect any more out of him yet, just better consistency. He will show up in more games and stop being in anyone's shadow. I also think he should be inserted as SG in the starting lineup for additional offensive punch.

Bruce Brown: Moved to the bench as SG behind Kennard. This is an important move for the Pistons and Bruce. Moving him to the bench and changing his role from just a defensive specialist to being relied on to be one of the primary scorers will unlock the potential we saw in his first summer league. He is capable of being a high octane scorer, but if he doesn't use it, it won't happen.

Starting Lineup
Reggie, Luke, Snell, Blake, Drummond

Rotation Players
Brown, Thomas, Svi, Maker, Sekou, New Backup Center, New backup PG

Finishing Games
Blake, Drummond, Reggie/Luke, Snell, Sekou/Maker

Notes: Getting to the 2nd round is tough if you don't finish in the top 4 and have home court, but it also depends on how well you're playing at the end of the season.

We'll make predictions before the season starts, and a big factor in that will be how teams shake out after all the moves have been finished.

The east landscape could look entirely different. Boston could be much less a factor, the Raptors without Kawhi could be toast, Philly could take a step back, so the top 4 spots of the conference could be wide open.
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Post  Oracle Yesterday at 7:49 pm

IMO, every prediction is a guess and every one stands on its own.

We have to realize that all we're doing is guessing, we don't know enough to be accurate, and it's all in fun.

There are way too many variables to be sure, but I do recognize that we can and do detect trends and make calculated guesses that can be close.

My concern is that we shouldn't take this stuff that seriously.

BTW, everyone look at this article on our #1 pickSwing for the fences? Nah, but Doumbouya projects as a home-run pick for Pistons
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Post  Murph Yesterday at 2:59 pm

You know where to find me.


Phil-Good wrote:
Murph wrote:We’ll see.  I have never been particularly impressed with your past predictions.  I think you are wrong about Drummond and will continue to be wrong.  

You watch, the Pistons will offer Drummond something like 5 years at $160 - 175, and Drummond will take it.  You'll get to enjoy watching Drummond for years to come.  Smile


Ok. We will see who's right. You don't have to be impressed with my predictions, just know that they are right. From trades, draft picks to wins and losses predictions. My predictions be on point.


When the Pistons dump Drummonds, you will be my first email. I will dedicate my first month of posting to you sir.


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Post  Phil-Good Yesterday at 2:01 pm

Murph wrote:We’ll see.  I have never been particularly impressed with your past predictions.  I think you are wrong about Drummond and will continue to be wrong.  

You watch, the Pistons will offer Drummond something like 5 years at $160 - 175, and Drummond will take it.  You'll get to enjoy watching Drummond for years to come.  Smile


Ok. We will see who's right. You don't have to be impressed with my predictions, just know that they are right. From trades, draft picks to wins and losses predictions. My predictions be on point.


When the Pistons dump Drummonds, you will be my first email. I will dedicate my first month of posting to you sir.


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Post  Murph Yesterday at 5:40 am

We’ll see.  I have never been particularly impressed with your past predictions.  I think you are wrong about Drummond and will continue to be wrong.

You watch, the Pistons will offer Drummond something like 5 years at $160 - 175, and Drummond will take it. You'll get to enjoy watching Drummond for years to come. Smile
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Post  Phil-Good Yesterday at 5:33 am

Murph wrote:Phil....weren’t you the guy who was calling for us to draft another shooting guard?

What accuracy?  


Ok Mur... Since you won't read my post. I will cut and past it for you. This is from June 7th 2019


3. Sekou Doumbouya. Talent wise this kid is number 1.

If the Pistons were smart they would try and walk out of the draft with two of these kids. Sekou Doumbouya and Walker if it were up to me.


Do you see the part where I'm saying Sekou is the best talent of my draft pick choices and we should try to get him?


Yes sir; That's what ACCURATE looks like.. tb  tb


Now, let me hit you with some more accurate facts. Your boyfriend Drummonds is A one trick pony!  And his physical abilities are about to roll down hill very soon. He big, he lazy, his basketball I.Q is low, he been A loser for his entire NBA career, he has no leadership qualities, he can't lead men into battle because he too soft. He has never been close to winning the defensive player of the year award. Ben Wallace and Dennis Rodman had won defensive player of the year, at-least one time by their 2nd seasons in Detroit Pistons uniforms.
I hope Drummonds has the best first half of his career so management can FLUSH that TURD down the trade-deadline, toilet. Watch and see....


I'm done insulting Drummonds for today.

Later Murphy  2 thumbs up
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Post  Murph Yesterday at 4:54 am

Phil....weren’t you the guy who was calling for us to draft another shooting guard?

What accuracy?
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Post  Phil-Good Yesterday at 3:39 am

Phil-Good wrote:"But we still have to give Drummond a contact extension and a raise."

A raise for A F.U.C.K.I.N.G BUM!!??

What's todays date? June 25th 2019. By this time next year Drummonds will be playing for A different NBA franchise.

Mark my words...


Don't test my accuracy Murph. I'm telling you, Drummonds is A goner. Here is one of my old post from June 7th 2019.


I said I would come up with seven guys.

I only have 3 or 4 guys.

#1 is without question Nickeil Alexander-Walker. Clean cut, hard working, smart, loves his craft, good size, 21 years old,sky high basketball I.Q. Telling you Pistons fan. This is the man you want at 15 and we would be lucky to get him. No he not flashy, no he not going to be on baller TV. But this kid can play ball.

#2. Romeo Langford. Tuff kid. Great size. Natural god given ability. Not A shooter but A mid-range player. Needs to mature and develop. But this kid can play if the coach gives him A opportunity. Casey will not give him much of a shot his rookie year.

3. Sekou Doumbouya. Talent wise this kid is number 1. He does it all. No questions, this kid will turn out to be A solid NBA pro. Teams will wish they drafted this kid top 5. The Pistons will have no shot at this kid unless they make A trade.

If the Pistons were smart they would try and walk out of the draft with two of these kids. Sekou Doumbouya and Walker if it were up to me.
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Post  Phil-Good Yesterday at 3:34 am

"But we still have to give Drummond a contact extension and a raise."

A raise for A F.U.C.K.I.N.G BUM!!??

What's todays date? June 25th 2019. By this time next year Drummonds will be playing for A different NBA franchise.

Mark my words...
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Post  Sparma on Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:30 pm

The Leuer trade may not have been a bad one for Milwaukee because they create a lot of cap space next year.  Also, I happen to think Leuer may be a decent contributor for them this year (although not worthy of his contract).

That said, the Leuer trade was a fantastic trade for us.  Yes, we take on a financial burden for a year beyond Leuer's contract, but I agree with Oracle that Snell and his contract could be sent on for someone of value.  More controversially,  I doubt that the extra 11 mil or so cap space would help us that much next year.

Under SVG at least trades tended to work better than FAs.  Leuer and Galloway were blundering overpays, and even Boban, I need to concede.  But he made some good trades, in bringing in Morris, Bullock, and Harris.  Griffin's the big question, where I've had my doubts from the outset, but that trade understandably has big backers.

I'm inclined to think that trading with teams in a pinch (like Milwaukee, and as Phoenix was when they thought they could sign a big FA) is the way to go.

Murph, I see your point about seeing the draft as wresting defeat from victory.  I would have thought a really solid backup big would have been available at #30, and that's what I would have expected.  Also, I'm not so sure Sirvydis wouldn't have been available at #45.

Still, I think they got an incredible haul for Leuer, who clearly wasn't in their plans.  If I've got this right

Leuer = (a) Snell & (b) 3 mil (5 mil from Cleveland - circa 2 mil given up for the Bone slot) & (c) 2/3 of Sirvydis (he cost them two 2 rounders from Cleveland & the one they originally had) & (d) Jordan Bone & (e) one second rounder in the future.

I think that's an astonishing trade, even when skeptical of the sale of a first round pick (although 4 second rounders by itself would seem like a solid return), and even in recognizing the advantage that Milwaukee won for itself in gaining cap space for next year.

That amazing trade colors my perception of their draft, even while acknowledging that the draft itself could have been better.

In addition, my view of their present isn't too optimistic, so I'm relieved that they focused resources on the future.  I see the point though that putting everything into going for it during Blake's window would have resulted in a very different, and arguable a better, draft.





Murph wrote:Please read my post "More Mediocrity."  I credited Stefanski for adding Snell, which will improve the team.

Snell, plus playing together for 1 more year, plus the improvements to Kennard, Maker, Brown, etc, will possibly represent a 9 win imrpovement, making us a 50 win team and getting us to the 2nd round.  But this forum will not be happy with that improvement and will still scapegoat Drummond.


lemonpen wrote:
Murph wrote:The other thing that happened, is that Stefanski diminished the value of the trade he made.  Originally, the trade was Leuer for Snell and a 1st round pick.  That's an outstanding trade.

But as it turns out, we traded Leuer for Snell and some 18 year old 2nd round pick who's connected to Tellum and who we are stashing in Europe.  
Needless to say, Snell and a 1st round pick looks a lot better than Snell and the 18 year old Euro who might show up in a year or two.

Leuer was a "ZERO".  He wasn't even a rotation guy.  So let me see,  starting SF for a ZERO, ummm starting SF for a ZERO, ahhh starting SF for a ZERO.  
I'll take the starting small forward.  
Things will have to go very wrong for us to get less from Snell than we were getting from Jon.


Last edited by Sparma on Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:41 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post  Oracle on Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:37 pm

"... if anyone is not skeptical of this ownership group then you must know something that I don't" - Don

Skeptical is alright, but that's not the vibe you're giving off.

And it's NOT that we know something you don't, it's that we feel something you don't!

Lemonpen has been very critical, but it's clear he's willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, not because he fully believes in everything, but because he wants this to succeed and he wants this team to be successful.

Your strange anger over us dumping a total loser in Stanley Johnson is odd. Stanley may yet prove to be a good player, but right now, he's a one trick pony that's never done anything, yet you can't understand why we needed to move on.

Why blame the Pistons for Stanley's failure? Nobody holds you accountable for Stanley's failures, a lot of us thought he would be a lot better, and he might have been with better coaching, but that ship has sailed... so should you.
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Post  cool breeze on Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:20 pm

Murph wrote:If you look at my last three posts, combined they spell mediocracy.  Based on Griffin's age and injury history, we only have 2 or 3 years to win now.  But Stefanski drafted 18 year olds and a rookie PG who will take 2 or 3 years to develop.

That means with the exception of Snell, we are basically fielding the exact same talent as we put on the floor last year.  Now, Snell will help, and the team will benefit by having played together for 1 more year, and Kennard, Brown, Maker, Thomas as Svi will certainly improve.

So the team will definitely be better, but by how much?  Best case, we can win 50 games and make it to the 2nd round, which is great.   But I know this forum wants much more than that.  This forum is not going to be satisfied if we just make it to the 2nd round...and Drummond will be the scapegoat.

This post got some reaction from posters. Does anyone believe that the Pistons are any better than average? They did not win more games than they lost and really looked bad at the end of the season when Blake could not play effectively. But before that they were not very good either. Are the Pistons on the rise so to speak? Fans are looking for that one tiny potentially tiny sign that things will be better next year. So let's look at the details.

Drummond is not and never will be in the same league as Embid. But the Pistons call him a star or franchise player. Management over exaggerates his value which is a turn off for fans who actually watch the games and see that he is overweight and downright lazy at times. The announcers pointed that out in the Bucks-Pistons playoff series. He is not and never will be a high quality championship type leader or winning type player in my opinion yet that is all we here from this owner. He is building his team around Andre Drummond. That is why I am upset. You just don't build a team around AD. Do you believe in that fairy tale? AD could be a rotation type player who should get very little attention if he played on a team that had two All Star type players in the back court. This owner doesn't believe in putting his big money in back court positions for some odd reason. So without the most dynamic center in the league under contract combined with an older often injured All Star in BG just where is this team really going. Will it be down or up. I sure can't tell.

What I do know is that Snell is not going to cause any fan to buy a season ticket. How important with Snell be? The Pistons decided to get rid of Johnson who was at least an above average defender. Johnson made the inept Piston defense better. Will Snell make the defense any better than Robinson? How much better is Snell compared to Robinson? How do either player stack up with most of the teams in the NBA? They are both fringe players who are not really bad but for sure have not shown that they are above average. But suddenly after the Bucks needed cash to sign their core players, Snell was the odd guy out. Last season Robinson to me was the superior player over Casey's ace in the hole Galloway because he didn't shoot off balance low percentage long distance shots and played hard on defense. Galloway, Jackson and Smith are horrible defenders which had no negative effect on Casey. Why are no fans on Casey's ass like they were relating to SVG? Robinson was sitting on the bench a lot getting rusty in games that the Pistons we're losing and Galloway was missing a lot of shots and getting beat on defense a lot. Will Casey treat Snell any better than Robinson as long as his guy, Langston is still on the team? Snell's scoring average is not very good. He has issues trying to create his own shot. So if those 3 point shots are not falling he is doomed like Robinson and Johnson even if Snell plays his ass off on defense. I wouldn't want to be Snell? He is being built up as the Pistons starting small forward. Look at his stats and tell me he is a starting caliber small forward? This number 1 pick is going to have a lot of pressure on him to execute under pressure and become the Pistons star. How is that going to happen to a kid who is 18 like you said and knows next to nothing about the fundamentals of playing defense? He has quick feet and maybe a quick mind. I hope like hell he has something special in his heart to give the longing Piston fans.

Who are the Pistons going to sign as the back up power forward and center? Does anyone know anything about that big question?

If the Pistons bring back Smith at even higher pay, we will know that they have thrown in the towel relating to that window with Blake you mentioned. The Pistons could have done a lot better in the draft to make the Pistons more competitive next season. There were some real players at that 30th spot. But of course the Pistons did not want to pay for another first round pick and needed more cash. We all hope for the best with the Pistons but if anyone is not skeptical of this ownership group then you must know something that I don't. By the way, until AD loses 25 pounds and does more conditioning work, he should be the focus of concern. Why is he making so much money so we can't get any superior guards?

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Post  Oracle on Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:53 pm

Let me address some of your concerns:

Murph: "I would have drafted PFs and SFs who could have stepped right into the rotation and contributed immediately, not 18 year olds who are still learning English or who we need to "stash" in Europe.  What's the point in that?" 

The only consistent time where rookies step right into the rotation that I've ever seen is when the team is rebuilding or sucks really hard. In those cases, the rookies do contribute, but contribute to losing.

It's rare that any winning team has rookies that come in and become rotation players right away, it takes a stroke of luck for that to happen, generally like being in the lottery. It happened to us with Stanley, he not only contributed but was a rotation player in the playoffs, so it's possible, just not very likely. No coach in his right mind would ever assume that a rookie can crack the rotation. The Pistons will look for vets to fill those roles and if a rookie makes some noise, well, that's what the Feb deadline is for, to unload dead weight.

Having said that, there are three more observations. First, saying that Sekou won't be in the rotation is very premature, I'd wait until summer league, and secondly, I do agree about the the stashed player. He does look like he has talent, but the whole situation was strange, so I'm not sure what the deal is there. Lastly, I really think Bone will get minutes and is capable of being that 3rd backup PG.

2nd Round Appearance: IMO, most of this forum would be very happy, just short of dancing in the streets if that happens.

Snell: I think you're reading the Snell pickup all wrong. If he works out, he would be the answer to the SF problem that under any circumstances we would have to fill anyway. The CAP space you say was lost, wasn't. It was simply used to sign the FA we needed, and if Snell doesn't work out, his contract is his value, but we would have run this risk with anyone.

Also, see this‘Rave reviews’ for Snell, whose addition lets Pistons focus on PGs in free agency

Improvement: You mentioned most of the areas of improvement, but I think there's more to that story, and I'll post about that soon.

BTW, your B- grade is a good one as well, lower than my grade, but well within reason.
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Post  lemonpen on Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:24 pm

Murph wrote:Please read my post "More Mediocrity."  I credited Stefanski for adding Snell, which will improve the team.

Snell, plus playing together for 1 more year, plus the improvements to Kennard, Maker, Brown, etc, will possibly represent a 9 win imrpovement, making us a 50 win team and getting us to the 2nd round.  But this forum will not be happy with that improvement and will still scapegoat Drummond.


lemonpen wrote:
Murph wrote:The other thing that happened, is that Stefanski diminished the value of the trade he made.  Originally, the trade was Leuer for Snell and a 1st round pick.  That's an outstanding trade.

But as it turns out, we traded Leuer for Snell and some 18 year old 2nd round pick who's connected to Tellum and who we are stashing in Europe.  
Needless to say, Snell and a 1st round pick looks a lot better than Snell and the 18 year old Euro who might show up in a year or two.

Leuer was a "ZERO".  He wasn't even a rotation guy.  So let me see,  starting SF for a ZERO, ummm starting SF for a ZERO, ahhh starting SF for a ZERO.  
I'll take the starting small forward.  
Things will have to go very wrong for us to get less from Snell than we were getting from Jon.

It is the "diminished" part that I disagree with. I just think Snell for Leuer is so overwhelmingly favorable for us in addressing NEED that it dwarfs their decision to boot the pick.
Did we really need another youngster to shuttle back and forth along I-96 in the dead of winter.

Murph, I promise you if we make the 2nd round with Dre playing a prominent role in said achievement, I will sing his praises AND encourage a max deal. I have no reason to want anything but success for my lifelong favorite team.
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Post  Murph on Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:01 pm

Please read my post "More Mediocrity."  I credited Stefanski for adding Snell, which will improve the team.

Snell, plus playing together for 1 more year, plus the improvements to Kennard, Maker, Brown, etc, will possibly represent a 9 win imrpovement, making us a 50 win team and getting us to the 2nd round.  But this forum will not be happy with that improvement and will still scapegoat Drummond.


lemonpen wrote:
Murph wrote:The other thing that happened, is that Stefanski diminished the value of the trade he made.  Originally, the trade was Leuer for Snell and a 1st round pick.  That's an outstanding trade.

But as it turns out, we traded Leuer for Snell and some 18 year old 2nd round pick who's connected to Tellum and who we are stashing in Europe.  
Needless to say, Snell and a 1st round pick looks a lot better than Snell and the 18 year old Euro who might show up in a year or two.

Leuer was a "ZERO".  He wasn't even a rotation guy.  So let me see,  starting SF for a ZERO, ummm starting SF for a ZERO, ahhh starting SF for a ZERO.  
I'll take the starting small forward.  
Things will have to go very wrong for us to get less from Snell than we were getting from Jon.
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Post  Murph on Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:57 pm

Yes, but Leuer's contract would have expired at the end of next season. Snell has a player's option for $12.2 million for 20/21. I assume Snell will pick up that option.

So that makes the rest of Snell's contract worth $23.5 million for 2 years. While the rest of Leuer's contract was worth $9.5 million for 1 year.

I assume that that's the reason why Milwaukee had to include a 1st round pick to get the deal done.


The net result is that after re-signing Drummond, we are only going to have something like $21 million left for a starting PG, unless other moves are made.
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