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Redundancies

Post  WTF on Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:32 pm

You all sound like last season and the season before that and the one before that.  Oh well same **** different season same sorry ass PG, same wishful thinking concerning SJ and to date the same sorry ass coaching scheme of jacking up 3's.
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Update & DRose

Post  Oracle on Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:39 am

What a night for D, a Career high 50 after injury and so many years... congrats!

Predictions Update:
2018-2019 Regular Season
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Heartbreaker

Post  Murph on Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:52 am

Man...what a heartbreaking game last night in OT.

Sparma...the reason for the +/- number discrepancy was that the Pistons came out tired, flat and out of sync from the Boston game, and got down by 15 early in the 1st quarter. Then Casey wisely subbed out most of his starters, and subbed in Zaza, Ish, GRIII and Bruce Brown. They, along with Stanley Johnson, made up most of the deficit. Then the Pistons seemed to wake up, and play the Nets neck and neck the rest of the way.

I think Phil and Don touched on an important point. Our shooters have to hit their shots, especially Reggie Bullock, or we're going to struggle, and look bad doing it.

Unless he hits his shots, Bullock is really good for nothing...he can't play D, he has limited handles, he doesn't look to pass the ball, and he doesn't rebound. Unless, Bullock can find his shot, he needs to be replaced in the starting lineup with Kennard, once Luke gets healthy.

And Stanley Johnson has to stop shooting 3s, and figure out how to finish at the rim on lay-ups. I like Don's idea of SJ working for mid-range shts that he can make, but that never seems to happen.

Last night our starting shooters clearly had tired legs. OTOH, our bench shooters hit their shots for the most part.
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This Pistons team is in need of A talent influx

Post  Phil1980boy on Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:05 am

again, tonight you saw A team that's in need of talent. The Pistons really are not that talented of A team. It's really that simple.

Many times in the game the Pistons were playing 4 on 5 because Stanley Johnson just stands in the corner like he F.U.C.K.I.N.G Klay Thompson or Reggie Miller. I don't get this kid. He can't shoot, he afraid to attack the basket on A constant basis. He won't attack the glass for second chance rebounds. He just stands around afraid to play basketball. door door What A BUM this kid has turn out to be!!


Oracle. If Blake and Drummonds can stay healthy all season long ( I doubt this will happen) 41 and 41

If Blake or Drummonds go down Lottery Team.

If Luke Kennard and Bullock have injury filled seasons, LOTTERY TEAM!!
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The Gift

Post  BallinD on Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:55 am

SVG left us the gift that keeps on giving. Pissed off Spencer Dinwiddie just keeps on keeping on. But not for the Pistons. Ouch.

Meanwhile, daaaayyyyyumm. "How much do I hate thee; let me count the ways."

Drummond, Weggie, Blake down the stretch with their blunders, Blake not being bulletproof nor perfect. This team is learning how to play hard under adversity, how to close out games. But right now they are the gang who couldn't shoot straight.

Get some assists. Defend. Screw SVG. Screw it. facepalm



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Once again Spencer Dinwiddie shows that the Pistons front office doesn't have a clue how to evaluate players

Post  cool breeze on Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:00 am

Our previous Piston coach gave Spencer away I think initially to Chicago. I think that I previously described how I witnessed an overtime game between Arizona and colorado when Spencer was a sophomore of Junior. He was the MAN of course and put on a show that I will never forget. That game was an overtime game as well. When the Pistons drafted Spencer I was so happy thinking that the Pistons finally had a smart man running the show in Stan van Gundy. Dinwiddie was recovering from an ACL surgery and knew that he might not be ready in his rookie season. But politics crept into SVG's world and he lost his ability to think clearly. Dinwiddie is 6 foot 6 inches tall and can play three positions. But somehow he wasn't good enough to crack the Pistons rotation when though they sucked. Damn it all I sure would love to watch Spencer playing for the Pistons. It was only a matter of time before Dinwiddie would shine. But somehow the Piston brain trust didn't know that. Now we have Jackson and Smith who have no capability of guarding Dinwiddie. I was just wondering why the coach didn't have Johnson guarding him after knowing how Dinwiddie manhandled the Piston guards in the previous game.

the Pistons started out poorly and were clearly showing wear and tear after that tough loss in Boston. As the game wore on Andre Drummond played with real heart. That shows me AD has some real basketball character. Griffin made some really tough shots in the overtime. But the Piston offense really looks primitive. I would be embarrassed if I was on the Piston coaching staff. The floor spacing was horrible all night long when AD and BG were playing together. It appears that Casey has not developed a complete offense with several options. They play one side of the floor almost all the time. there is no weak side action. If that happened and Griffin would look to the weak side, other players would get easy baskets including AD. The pistons played with courage so we cannot fault the most important thing - EFFORT. the effort was there. Brown is playing his way into a lot of minutes because he plays with pure effort all the time. But on offense in the 2nd half the Pistons were not spaced properly and there was no movement off the ball. The attempted plays by Griffin and others were way too show developing. Just one on one, or one on two or one on three at times. That is what happened in the Pistons last possession with 20 seconds on the clock in regulation where Reggie went in the paint against 3 defenders with no chance at all. Yet I thought he was clearly fouled by the 3rd defender who was moving right into Reggie.

Two tough losses where the Pistons could have won both. They lost because of dumb mistakes and some great plays made by opposing guards. Casey needs to realize that neither Smith or Jackson can defend players like Irving or Dinwiddie or even LeVert. Smith had a tough matchup with any of the Nets players last night. So why did Casey not see that? I know some players are injured now with both Kennard and Bullock injured. But there was no excuse for the players on the court not switching when Reggie was screened off. The coaching staff should have made it clear as to where they thought the ball was going and not to allow Dinwiddie to get a 3 off. If you are the coach you have to be engaged and be able to think two or three plays ahead as to what the opposition is going to try to run in that situation. So was it the players or the coaches who screwed up the works on that 3 by Dinwiddie?

Will this team learn from the loses they suffer? Will the coaches get smarter? The good thing is that the season is young and at times the Pistons look like a pretty good team. They just are not a very smart team yet. While AD still makes some mistakes, he has the potential to be a great player. Now at least the effort is there relating to AD. If this coach can create a solid offense where everyone is involved and the team takes advantage of opportunities on the weak side when Griffin has the ball, then the Pistons might start blowing out teams like the Nets. And Calderon makes the Pistons a smarter team. I would have liked having him in the game at the end. Maybe we would have seen some off the ball action and a wide open look instead of shooting contested low percentage shots at the most important moments. This bully ball by Griffin and Jackson will not work very often. If they are going to keep trying the hero ball in crunch time then there better be improved floor spacing and other players need to at least look like they might be a threat to get a pass. Yes the the coaching staff should be embarrassed. They are responsible for creating the offense and teaching all of the potential options in end of game situations. Reggie dribbling the length of the court was not a surprise to anyone. Everyone was ready for Reggie. Why didn't the head coach know that and how can he tolerate low basketball IQ play at the end of the game? Something tells me Casey is going to change the old ways. We all have seen this type of thing many times with the Pistons. SVG never changed a thing. SVG seemed to not care if there was no player or ball movement other than the guy with the ball dribbling around. Go with the players who will give up the basketball and pass the basketball to the open man. Right now my feeling is that players are standing around feeling for sure that when either Blake or Reggie have the basketball in their hands, there is no way they are going to touch it no matter how hard they might try to get open. I believe that the coaches will clean this nonsense up soon and then we might see a much better offensive team making fewer turnovers.

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Drummonds lack of defensive awareness killed us!

Post  Oracle on Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:26 am

He was on Dinwiddie and the situation was that a 3 beats us and he gave him space to get the shot off.

In that situation, you run him off the 3, even if you have to give up the two, because it only ties you.

Drummond didn't appear to be aware of what he needed to do Sad
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Piston killer

Post  Sparma on Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:36 pm

Spencer's not letting go of a grudge too quickly, is he?

Just saw the last few minutes of OT.

What jumps out at me from the boxscore is that Griffin and AD are worst on the team in +/- at -14 and -11, respectively, with Zaza and Glenn their mirror image as team best at +14 and +11.  I'm guessing there's a story there.  Are those fake numbers with BG coming in at 25/9/4 and AD at 24/23?  Maybe someone forgot to play D?

And Stanley with 12 bounds!

Big, big loss.
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Hate They Traded Him but......

Post  WTF on Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:52 pm

Oracle wrote:The Lions trade their most productive receiver and, IMO, best player for a 3rd round pick!

Are we rebuilding or what???

Good bye Golden Tate!


He's a FA after the season clearly a money decision and actually not a bad move.  They have a couple of young guys (WR) they think are going to be really good going forward.
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Lions WTF???

Post  Oracle on Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:05 pm

The Lions trade their most productive receiver and, IMO, best player for a 3rd round pick!

Are we rebuilding or what???

Good bye Golden Tate!

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Pistons showed real character - Small corrections to offense along with playing the right combinations could turn the Pistons into a more competitive team against the elite

Post  cool breeze on Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:05 pm

Great effort Piston players. This was a fun game to watch for fans of both teams. The refs must have been offered bonus money by Tatum last night. There were 3 fouls called against Johnson that were clearly bogus. Johnson was playing in your face but clean defense with his feet. The Pistons got screwed with other homer calls as well but Boston usually gets a lot of breaks when they play at home.

What stood out to me was how the exceptional effort made by both Brown and Johnson on defense caused other Piston players like Reggie Bullock to mimic what they were doing. The effort made spread to the rest of the team. This team needs more of both Brown and Johnson who were not big scorers but set the tone on how to play the right way. Playing like that away from home was a thing of beauty for me to see. I haven't seen it for many years in away game with the Pistons since Big Ben Wallace lead the charge.

While the Piston coaching staff had the players ready to play hard in this game, I see a lot of issues with the coaches that need to be cleaned up. Do the coaches see what is going on in the game and can they make the right adjustments? Can they help the players succeed or are they sometimes the problem. SVG was clearly the problem in his stay with the Pistons. He could not make game adjustments because he was too busy yelling at the players who were sitting on the bench.

Here is a story that bothers me a lot. Last night I attended a college game and talked to a friend who is involved in the same workout facility where Stanley Johnson works out during the summer in California. He said that Johnson turned the corner relating to his shot release and ball handling while working harder than any player from any sport at that facility. Johnson perfected the ability to be an effective scorer working on weak side moves without the ball to get open. Then he would dribble into the paint and create his own shot from 6 to 10 feet. He was making those shots around 80% of the time against pressure. Casey came to the facility and watched Johnson for awhile and then told Johnson to work more on his 3 point shot. What some of the coaches thought at that point was the Casey had no clue what he has in Johnson. Not noticing why Johnson was working on specific moves to get open so as to work off of Griffen from the weak side and how well Johnson was able to get his shot off and how consistent he was at making those jump shots was very frustrating for them and blew their minds. Why tell a player who has worked his butt off to do a specific thing that will work in the correct offense to stop doing it and just go out and shoot mindless 3 point shots? Last night when Johnson did touch the ball he was often able to see what the defense was giving him. In the 3rd quarter Stanley drove the ball to the baseline while seeing AD on the opposite low block. SJ passed the ball 3 times to AD drawing defenders to the baseline instead of shooting the ball himself. Greg Kelser said on one of those possessions that Johnson should have shot the ball over Irving. But AD was open on the opposite low post and should have taken one step into the paint towards the ball. The Problem was that every one of those 3 possessions resulted in turnovers because AD didn't move to the ball. Why did that happen? AD just needed to take one stupid step towards the ball. The Piston coaching staff should have noticed not that Johnson's pass caused a turnover but that it would be an easy correction to just tell AD to move one step into the paint when Johnson makes his move to the baseline. AD could have had 7 or more dunks. Instead AD made the cardinal sin by just standing. But I blame the coaches for not knowing that Johnson had found a weakness in Boston's defense and for not telling AD to be ready for the pass on that play and move and screen out his defender. The coaches missed it and were no not help. Most likely Johnson was scolded for causing turnovers. All AD needs is superior coaching. He needs more instruction that he is not getting. AD could have been the difference in this game. But the coaching staff fails to use him the right way. So I am not mad a AD for making that same mistake 3 times in a row because AD casualty of having extremely poor coaching for his entire life. My problem with most coaches is that they fail to see what is going on most of the time. They get caught up in nonsense much like a lot of fans do. There was a hole in Boston's defense. All the coaching staff had to do was call a time out and say to Blake we are going to attack the weak side to take the pressure off you so get the ball over there as much as possible until Boston plays you honestly meaning not doubling up on Blake. AD Johnson and Bullock are going to drive to the baseline when they get the ball and either shoot it or get you the ball on the opposite low block. Box out and get the offensive rebound if they miss and be ready for the pass and move a step into the paint and be ready for the pass for an easy dunk. They will be looking for you AD so be ready. That was 6 easy points that the Pistons didn't get. The coaching staff never noticed that running that play could have been very effective. Instead the Pistons struggled shooting too many contested shots from distance. If AD had made those 3 dunks there is no telling how much more motivated he would have been on defense as well. You can all laugh at me if you want but I see how Johnson can average 20 points a game with his driving ability and ability to play off the weak side. All he needs is one screen when Blake has the basketball on the opposite side. Johnson can either dribble drive and pull up for the 6-10 jump shot or go deeper and pass the ball to AD on the opposite low post. Bullock can be successful as well with mid range shots and passes to AD down low. This coach has to adjust his insane lazy ass offense and come up with something specific to benefit the players he actually has on this team. We do not have Irving, Curry or others. But the Pistons could get a lot more out of Johnson, Bullock, Brown, Kennard and also free up Blake from all those double and triple teams he is confronted with. The coaching staff is not doing their job by making game time adjustments to help the players. We have to keep watching and call them out when they offer no benefit to the players.

Murph called it right saying that our rookie will really help the Pistons this season. He has to be part of the mix and he needs to play when Johnson is in the game when the Pistons are behind. Both players dig down deep and give that extra effort deflecting passes, squaring up and being physical and playing smart basketball. Both of those players offer something special that his team needs to establish an identity as a hard nosed type team. Both players will have success offensively if given a larger role on offense. They need to touch the basketball more to help create easy scores for our big center. That is how the pistons will win along with exceptional play by Blake Griffin. There will be games where Reggie Jackson and Ish Smith will really help this team as well but it is extremely important to involve both Johnson and the Rookie in the offense to reward them for playing their asses off on defense. The Pistons showed me something last night. They never gave up and played much better as a team. Boston got hot beyond the 3 point line and established a nice lead but our players fought back hard and made it a game that could have gone either way.


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Trade?/ Murph

Post  Sparma on Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:16 am

I'd go for that second trade you propose. The first one too, but I'm thinking Reggie J and SJ have very little trade value now, so I can't see that getting it done. I'm guessing something like my summer proposal of AD for Wall would be needed to pull off a deal. I'd probably still go for that if the PG spot were really solved (Reggie J out?) and if we somehow got a serviceable starting C back.

Murph wrote:I see the Washington Wizards are off to a dreadful 1-6 start, and they have a really high payroll, including the insanely expensive 5 year contract of John Wall.

If things don't get any better for the Wizards as the season progresses, might they blow up their team, and if they do blow it up, what would it take to acquire Wall?

The Pistons would have to put together an attractive package of draft picks and young players.  Would Jackson, Kennard, SJ and a 1st rounder for Wall and filler get it done?

We could sweeten the deal by taking on another one of their bad contracts, such as Otto Porter's.  Then the trade would look something like Jackson, Ish, Galloway, Robinson, Kennard, SJ and a 1st rounder for Wall and Porter. 

And then the Pistons would be capped out forever, but then again, we're already sort of capped out forever.  Would you make that trade?

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Stuff...

Post  Oracle on Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:07 am

@Sparma/@DX:  We all agree, this was a VERY good effort and they've restored themselves in this poster's mind.

More than that, this should be a turning point. The other victories always felt hollow somehow to me, but in this loss, I felt that they are beginning to realize what it takes to win. Sure, time will tell, but this could be a turning point. Here are the positives I see.

1. Our Bigs stepped up
2. Bullock found his courage in spite of his "Doo"
3. Ish continues to amaze from deep
4. Brown can contribute. A rookie performing on the road, in a big game, is one hell of a good thing
5. HUGE, and DX noticed it: This is also a big coaching win! Teams take their cue from the top, and Casey is willing them forward. It shows me a lot that Casey would even play a rookie in a big game in Boston. That's a good sign!

@Phillip: Get me your prediction.

@Murph: While I don't believe we need to shoot 3's like GS, I do believe we need to keep trying, but only with the guys that are capable or should be from their position. The problem is balance. If the 3 is not dropping, don't be stupid, get something to drop and try later, but don't keep jacking them up like a fool.

On the Wizards, Wall is the most likely to get moved if the blow it up, they'll likely keep Beal and Porter. I'd take a gimpy Wall over Reggie any day.
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Talent Influx

Post  Murph on Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:26 am

I see the Washington Wizards are off to a dreadful 1-6 start, and they have a really high payroll, including the insanely expensive 5 year contract of John Wall.

If things don't get any better for the Wizards as the season progresses, might they blow up their team, and if they do blow it up, what would it take to acquire Wall?

The Pistons would have to put together an attractive package of draft picks and young players.  Would Jackson, Kennard, SJ and a 1st rounder for Wall and filler get it done?

We could sweeten the deal by taking on another one of their bad contracts, such as Otto Porter's.  Then the trade would look something like Jackson, Ish, Galloway, Robinson, Kennard, SJ and a 1st rounder for Wall and Porter. 

And then the Pistons would be capped out forever, but then again, we're already sort of capped out forever.  Would you make that trade?

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3 Pt Shooting

Post  Murph on Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:24 am

I feel as if I'm beating a dead horse here, so this is going to be my last post on 3 point shooting for a while.  

But last night's game is another good example.  SJ and Brown were a combined 1-7 (14%) from the 3 point line.  (Drummond fortunately might have gotten it through his thick head that it's better for him not to take 3s.)


Hopefully, the Pistons can rebound tonight on the road against a scrappy Nets team.  We need this win badly.
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This Pistons team is in need of A talent influx

Post  Phil1980boy on Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:49 am

I have to say I like coach Casey. This guy uses his team and gets A lot out of his guys.

The Pistons need A talent upgrade. It's just that simple. It's been A long time since the Pistons had A lot of talent. Ben, RIP, Prince, Wallace, C. WIlliamson days.


The Pistons are limited in the amount of talent they possess.

Blake, Luke, Bullock, Drummonds, Brown Jr, and Ish.


You can literally DUMP the rest of the team in the TRAHS!! I would give A pass to every guy the Pistons sign this summer except for Robinson III He TRASH AS WELL..


How much of A BUST has S.Johnson been? WOW! What A BUM this kid is!! I can't believe how bad and SCARY Johnson is as A basketball player!


This new leadership group job is to leave coach Casey alone, draft well, develop the young guys, DRAFT WELL, DRAFT WELL and DRAFT WELL. Also, the Pistons need to clear some salary cap space because Ish Smith needs A 3 year deal at about 5 or 6 million per season.
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Can The Team Win The Next 3 out of 4?

Post  deusXango on Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:30 am

Oracle wrote:This next game will tell us a LOT about this team. If they don't fight to the end and be very competitive after getting their arses handed to them, my opinion of them will suffer a big blow.
Oracle, I'm satisfied that this team has a lot of fight in them; there's also more talent than has been shown so far.
What's up with Weggie?
Bullock is fighting for his right to remain unshorn.
Ish Smith! Who the hell seen this coming? Hard work and dedication is the lesson.
Brown is coming on strong and soon not to be denied.
Coach Casey ain't bullsh!t!ng.
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Some positives?

Post  Sparma on Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:10 pm

Moral victories are poo-poohed, but I'll take this over the lifeless performance the other day.

Just watched the 4th quarter, but here are some positives:

Blake got some things done offensively against a real tough D.

Reggie B. hit from distance (3 down the stretch).

Ish continued to be successful from distance.

Bruce Brown looks like he's earning some minutes, maybe as the 10th guy or so.  Kelser commented on how effective he is when moving without the ball.


Last edited by Sparma on Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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Shooting/ Murph

Post  Sparma on Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:20 pm

Thanks Murph.

You make an important point regarding green, yellow, and red lights.  I hope that's going on beyond the scenes; sometimes it doesn't sound like key differentiations regarding shooting are being made.  

A baseball analogy works up to a point.  There, your assigning of green, yellow, and red lights straightforwardly occurs regards stealing bases.  Ron LeFlore gets the green light, Rusty Staub the red, and maybe Larry Herndon gets the yellow.  

Unfortunately, with the Pistons, some of our players don't get their roles.  Most strikingly, Stanley seems to think he gets the LeFlore GREEN light, whereas he's really closer to Staub.

The analogy breaks down in that (analysts think) 3 pointers in basketball are far more valuable than stolen bases.  Maybe Stanley shooting around 30% actually isn't such bad odds?  [30% of 100 shots from 3 equals 45% from the 2 range, and I don't think Stanley's shooting that percentage at all beyond 3 feet; free throw shots, defensive positioning, getting the opponent in foul trouble make the comparison more complicated.]

I was going to praise ZaZa for really understanding his red light.  But it turns out that his 0% from 3 comes on 27 total attempts!!  I wonder if that's approaching a record: most 3s attempted without making any.  I'm guessing most, if not all of those, came on end of shot clock/ period heaves.

Murph wrote:Sparma...great post.  Lots of food for thought.  I think the key to our 3 pt shooting is to change the mix of who's taking the 3s.  The player's percentages will gradually revert to their career means, with the possible exception of Griffin. who seems to have made a sea-change improvement on his 3 pt shooting from his career average.

As I stated earlier, based on their career percentages, I would give the green light to Bullock, Kennard, Calderon, Robinson, Galloway, and now Griffin.

I'd give the yellow light to Jackson, Leuer, Ellenson and now Ish, with the understanding if they got hot and stayed hot, they can shoot more 3s.

And I would give the red light to Drummond, Johnson, Zaza and Brown.  Of that group, only Zaza seems smart enough to understand his limitations.  The rest of that group seem oblivious to the fact that they can't shoot, and will keep chucking away unless Casey can reign them in.

In fact, Drummond, Brown and Johnson are shooting a combined 7-31 (22%) from the 3 point line.  If you just backed out their 3 point chucks, the rest of the team would be shooting a league average of 36%.



Sparma wrote:We want to shoot, but only two regulars (one of whom is out now) are better than last year's NBA league average for their careers.  Problem!

Last year's NBA league 3pt% was 36.2%.  

Doing some checking, it looks like Bullock, Kennard, and Calderon are the only three Pistons above last year's league average for their careers.  One of those guys is out.  Calderon rarely plays.

Trouble!

Galloway's just a tick under at 35.6%

Both Griffin and Leuer sit at .334.  To my surprise, Reggie J comes in below them at .321.

Glenn Robinson?  Decent for his career at 34%, but below league average.  Ellenson's ok at 32%, but again below league average.

Stanley's crummy from distance for his career (.295), but a tick better this season (after last night!) at .300.  Ish is just a little better for his career at .307.

Griffin and Ish are shooting ridiculously well this season (even including last night).  I expect their %s to come down closer to their lengthy career averages.  That said, I do think both have genuinely improved as distance shooters, so that I think both will exceed their career averages.  

Bullock and Galloway sit way under their career averages this season.  Reggie B will get going from distance; Galloway will be a solid (but not outstanding) option again.

We know about Andre.  He's at .143 for the season, a little behind (!) his .162 for his career.

Not sure what to say about the rooks, and partial Pistons.

Maybe Casey's found a way to improve the %s, focusing on corner 3s?  Well, with Bullock and Kennard contributing heavily we hit a very nice .373 last year.  That included Tolliver at .426 (2nd to RB) and Harris at .409 (4th, right behind Kennard).  This year, even with Ish and Blake shooting out of their minds (until last night), we're at .333.

I see reason for optimism concerning improvement (RB, LG) and pessimism (Blake, Ish).

All in all, not a pretty picture.  At least: along with the shoddy D and the plodding O, our fair and erratic distance shooting provides another reason to doubt the team will climb far over .500.
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Ellenson

Post  Oracle on Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:27 pm

Don wrote:Henry was really young when he was drafted in the first round. Big men take time to develop into effective players especially exceptionally young teenagers who play power forward or center.(Except Drummond)
You left out what you truly feel, because you've been on Drummond since year 3 of his NBA career.


However, what you said is none the less true, especially for Centers, less so for PF's, but Ellenson got a really raw deal with SVG.


This management team gave him a good opportunity, but in reality he STUNK up summer league so bad it was embarrassing. Rookies were cleaning his clock as a 3rd year player and they never played a minute of NBA ball.


He's fumbled every opportunity to show something, so I don't fault this management team, but I do fault SVG!


Young players are defined in their first 4 years, and once defined, it's basically over unless they show something to someone that's truly good.


Ellenson got a raw deal here, like so many youngsters, and he will likely need to go elsewhere and hope for a coach that knows how to use his talents and make him better. NBA life is too short to waste time on players that won't get you anywhere.
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Oracle

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Henry Ellenson never was handled well By SVG. Now this new management team is feeling the financial pressure because to bad business decisions having nothing to do with Henry

Post  cool breeze on Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:11 pm

Henry was really young when he was drafted in the first round. Big men take time to develop into effective players especially exceptionally young teenagers who play power forward or center. What does a responsible smart front office do with a guy like Ellenson? Was it a smart thing to simply let him sit the bench and get no experience? How stupid can this Piston franchise be. I imagine if Henry had been drafted by the Spurs he would be ready to contribute now. The Spurs plan for the future. They do not make trades like the Blake Griffin trade when they have a team that is full of 2nd tier type players along with a high priced starting center who is still developing into a complete player. There was no way the Pistons could win a championship by adding Griffin yet the owner gave up a number one pick in this last draft. What was he thinking?

I always had in the back of my mind that Henry Ellenson will someday be a really good big man in the NBA. He is a good ball handler and is pretty fast on the court. It was clear to me that his timing was off for lack of being in game shape. Henry never was able to get comfortable. Ellenson has the potential to become an outstanding outside shooter. He also can drive it to the rim. His defense is not great but how much worse is he on defense from those players who lost to Boston last week? If Ellenson had stayed and played in the G League last season, there is no doubt in my mind that he could earn minutes with this current Piston team. The reason given was Henry's poor showing in the Summer League. Are you kidding me? The Summer League proves next to nothing relating to a players potential to play in the NBA. Everyone is trying to show off and earn a place on an NBA team. I look at Ellenson and see his age and say to myself the Piston Front office is fully stocked with idiots. The cost to sign Ellenson would be peanuts. We fans sit around waiting for some of the young guys to get their chance and this front office eliminates them before anyone knows how good they might become. Then they pick up some loser reject who is at the end of his prime and pay that guy 6 times the amount it would take to sign Ellenson.

I am believing now that Piston fans will be waiting until this ownership group sells the team before we will have any hope to live to see another Piston team competing for a championship. The Pistons have to find money to pay Blake, Andre, Reggie, Jon Leuer and Langston Galloway so why not cross Henry E. off but exactly how much will they be saving?

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This Piston roster seems incapable of playing smart basketball so all we have to look forward to is the possibility of some of the players changing their hair style

Post  cool breeze on Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:20 pm

At least this season most of us have a sense of humor. We all know where we stand with this team. We hope for the best and pull for the team to be as productive as possible. The players are all trying for sure but do they actually know what it takes regarding mental discipline to play as a team and make decisions that actually offer the best result for the team. Is this coaching staff any better than any of the others that the owner considered failures? Do coaches in the NBA just throw out the basketball in practice and tell the players to have fun with the wild and crazy undisciplined small ball read and react fast paced 3 point shootout style? My question to this coaching staff is how in hell do you allow players to shoot the basketball when the rest of the players on the floor are out of position and cannot get back in time to stop the massive amount of transition baskets caused by missed three point shooters?

What I am seeing on the floor with the Pistons is much the same as other NBA losing teams. They all copy each other even when they do not have the required talent to play this mindless style. What long time Piston fan thought for one second that it would be a good thing for Andre Drummond to launch impulsive 3 point shots? Why would he think that would be a smart thing to concentrate on over the summer instead of learning how to be a better defensive player? What direction did this new coaching staff give Andre Drummond and others over the summer as to what the players needed to work on? I know Casey told Stanley Johnson at Johnson's practice facility in California to shoot more 3s. I heard that Johnson was working hard on his mid range game at the time. What in hell was wrong with that idea? Johnson is capable of getting closer to the basket and getting that type of shot off pretty easy. Why not shoot the mid range shot. Has the NBA gone insane with this idea that it is more pleasing to fans to see a lot of 3 point shots? And do head coaches who get long term contracts actually care if they create a winning team anymore? If they did then who would tell Drummond that he has a green light to jack up three point shots when the guards are down at the baseline and cannot get back in time to protect the paint when AD misses? Also, if AD and others who should not be shooting the 3 ball decide to impulsively shoot it when the better defensive minded players are not in position to get back to stop a fast break, how can the head coach tolerate those same shooter when they miss those shots to just jog back on defense and allow opposing players to blow by them for layups. If AD is going to shoot the long ball then he better get his ass back really quick because he is out on top of the key when those shots go up. Charlie V was good at shooting the long ball and that was my grip about him. Charlie was a lazy ass who should have been the first guy back to protect the paint on those misses yet he seemed to be the last player back on defense. What kind of coach allows that crap?

If players are allowed to pick and choose when they are going get back quickly and set up the half court defense, then there is no hope for a good outcome. Any coach knows that but somehow NBA coaches adjust their mindset and ignore what these highly paid players get away with in the modern game. The Pistons cannot match up with Boston talent wise. They have superior players who are getting to know how to play as a team now. By the end of the season the Celtics should be tough to beat because although they have some really talented offensive players, defense is the theme their coach has been preaching. Meanwhile, our Piston team lacks exceptional talent at key positions an our coaching staff is telling the players not to worry about jacking up 3 pointers. It shows so far that this Piston team does not have a good grip on how to play well together on the defensive end. Opponents have been able to get easy baskets in the paint. The Pistons cannot keep any type of lead for long because they give away too much on the defensive end by jacking up impulsive contested 3 point shots. Does that remind anyone of what we have seen over the past two years with SVG in command of the operation? Ben Wallace brought a defensive mind set to the Pistons. We have no player on this team that has what Big Ben provided. The Pistons might make the playoffs by beating a lot of horrible teams worse off than the pistons because they are rebuilding. Detroit is not in the rebuild mode. This is what we will see for several years. Will Casey and his staff do anything about it or will they fake it like SVG did and just talk nonsense? Meanwhile we can look at the hair styles of our players. Who knows maybe one of the players will come out with the old bee hive Marge Simpson hair do before the season is over.

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Can we fix any of this; Definitely We Should

Post  BallinD on Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:02 pm

Defensive schemes? 26th in assists?
Small ball lineups, particularly hate LG, Weggie, Ish, is terrible defensively 130 defensive rating with Weggie playing SF...sheeeeesh. Where is GR3?

Where’s the P&R in spurts when smart teams focus on stopping Blake, and/or double team Blake. Where are the other options? Casey?

We’re not hitting shots yet, Bullock is off, but traditionally he starts slowly. Give it time. LG is shooting himself in the foot, not sold on his promotion.

Its early but the issues persist thru wins and losses. SJ? maybe so, maybe no. Probably no.
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Offense

Post  Murph on Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:22 am

Oracle...I'm not suggesting the Pistons can or should become the Golden State Warriors.  I'm only suggesting that we should diversity our offense.  Having Griffin take the ball down the court and going 1 on 1, or 1 on 2 is getting too predictable.

When Griffin is running the offense, he should look for his own shot, but he should also be a willing passer and look for Bullock, Kennard, Galloway, Robinson and Jackson on the perimeter for 3's, as well as Drummond down low, and Johnson cutting to the basket.

Jackson and Ish should also initiate the offense periodically.

That would represent a lot of different looks.


I agree Bullock's hairdo is ridiculous.  lol!   <RB
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Win/Loose, There Ain't No Draws In Basketball

Post  deusXango on Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:38 am

Oracle, your statement, "This next game will tell us a LOT about this team. If they don't fight to the end and be very competitive after getting their arses handed to them, my opinion of them will suffer a big blow." about sums it up for me also. A helluva lot more pride and fight has got to be shown by this team and I'm looking for more astute decisions coming from the bench. When sh!t is obviously not working, why not bring the thinking outside the box? Unless I've missed something, that last game would've been an excellent opportunity to see what a Johnson/Brown/Thomas trio of defensive Pistons could've done for say 5-6 minutes...Stanley finally offset his poor shot selection with a little production and the Celtics were killing us from the outside; we had very little to loose in that blowout. Isn't 3 & D where Thomas excels?

I admit to being from another time, as far as fashion and style goes, but I've noticed that the players who are playing outstanding basketball are groomed and the Raggedy Ann and Andy looks are on the football field. There's a bigger difference than one being a contact sport and the other a collision sport. Don, if Bullock and Stanley are grooming themselves to appeal to the ladies, then their heads are in the stands not on the court and it's affecting their play; Stanley's poor shot selection and Bullocks styling (shooting and defense) over success is leaving them out of harmony with winning. The damnedest thing is, they could be among the best in the league if they applied themselves. I'm a homer too Oracle.
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Re: FORUM

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