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Good Win...

Post  Oracle on Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:38 pm

We did what we should do, beat a good team when they're playing the hard end of a back to back.

Sadly, we tried to give it away in the end by playing prevent defense, but Boston couldn't overcome the big lead.

After 6 straight losses, I take wins any way we can get them Smile 

Drummond had a monster game, 19pts, 20 boards, 3 steals, 5 blocks and 1 assist. Quite a nights work!

I like Bullock and Luke in the starting lineup, I hope Casey keeps it that way and lets them build some chemistry.
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Markelle Fultz

Post  Oracle on Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:01 pm

Don brought up some good points, and I never understood why he(Fultz) was so highly thought of coming out of college. Don't get me wrong, he was a top 5 pick, so he's talented, but I didn't see him as a #1 pick overall.

But that doesn't matter anymore and his shooting doesn't bother me in the least, he was, and is a scorer who can dominate in the right situation.

He's a risk, but looking at our roster, our financial situation, he looks like a low cost risk worth taking. He's a project that needs development, but if it works out, we get a high lottery pick talent on the cheap to make up for being too stupid to tank and get a legitimate high pick.

Sadly, we wasted a lot of years in the lottery and came up mostly dry, which is what happens when you're always around the 8th spot.

This would be a smart move if they could pull it off. We likely would have had Ariza if SVB had been still here. For whatever reason, they knew how to bend the Suns over and pack on the grease  lol
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DX: Brain Child?

Post  Oracle on Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:15 pm

DX wrote:I digress from the reality of what we need now and that is practical...a starting reliable SG and a real 2-way stud at SF...Damyean Dotson, who the Knicks don't want, and Kelly Oubre Jr., who can be had while all eyes are on Bradley Beal.
Yup, you must be reading some good tea leaves or smoking some good one  lol 

The Wizards made a smart move, one I wish we would have made and got Ariza from the Suns by moving Oubre and Rivers!

While Ariza is a prize catch if you need both defense and 3 point shooting, I'd take Oubre and Rivers on this roster any day of the week as well. Rivers is a pretty good backup PG and Oubre would immediately be starting for us.

Reports: Wizards acquire Ariza from Suns for Oubre, Rivers
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Just Thinking

Post  WTF on Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:38 pm

Yep!  Same as last season and right on que you all are singing the trade song for the holiday.   Wanting to trade away the same players for the same reasons as usual.    facepalm 

I won't be like Don this year repeating the same thing over and over that was repeated over and over last season and the season before concerning AD, or Reggie.  

It's just a matter of time before Blake fakes an injury and demand a trade to a contender and you all are under some false impression that AD won't bolt to a contender after his contract is up.  Do any of you expect a championship before then?

Truth is this organization should have been in full rebuild mode dumping players for picks both high and low.   We should already be in our 2nd or 3rd season of tanking already.   

While Casey look to be more willing to use the entire roster his coaching is just as bad as SVG coaching.  While I'm a strong believer that traditional guard play from PG position is badly needed, you also need a coach that has a plan and I mean a real plan.  We are out manned and out gunned to be getting in 3 pointer shootouts.

Our payroll say's 55 wins should be expected but everything else points to another 39 win season.
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The Riverboat Gambler

Post  deusXango on Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:51 pm

This "neurogenic thoracic outlet syndrome" that Fultz is suffering with sounds like a call for the Great Arnie Kander, to make his return to glory! This isn't about that dumb sh!t SVG did (fixing Stanley's jump shot) but, what an intelligent man like Ed Stefanski, would/could do in bringing in a modern day physical guru to fix the athlete. Think about it.

Philly don't want Fultz, and Fultz don't want to be in Philly...there's no way he can climb over Butler, Simmons, and Embiid to become "the man" in Philly and what he wants to do is be recognized as one of the best. A fresh start is what's needed. I can see a backcourt of Kennard and a healthy Fultz, raising hell for Detroit. Please, please, don't start up that droning "no defense" drivel that's heard when a player is not desired on the Pistons. Healthy, there's not a guard on the Pistons that can match Markelle Fultz, skill and abilities.

I digress from the reality of what we need now and that is practical...a starting reliable SG and a real 2-way stud at SF...Damyean Dotson, who the Knicks don't want, and Kelly Oubre Jr., who can be had while all eyes are on Bradley Beal. Acquiring those 2 may put us in a position to move one or two of Jackson, Leuer, or Galloway from the payroll. Anyone who feel they're not upgrades at their positions, please set me straight and end my delusions, if that's where I'm at.

Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson must be separated in order for the Pistons to move to the next level; who should the Pistons keep? Albeit Drummond, is the more expensive player, he seem to be a far better fit with Griffin than Jackson does.

Lastly, I don't believe we're the only franchise that must give up draft picks to make a decent trade! We can be the recipient of draft picks along with players also. Don has started ripping Casey for his coaching decisions, replacing his "tar and feather Drummond" rants, when what I've seen is coach "showcasing" some mediocre players for trade bait while they're healthy. I haven't forgotten that this new brain trust has to dig out of the financial bog that SVG put the Pistons in; it's going to take sacrifices from everybody to straighten out this cockamamie, fan patience included.
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Fultz/ Cool

Post  Sparma on Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:51 pm

Cool: "I didn't mean to jump down your throat relating to your idea of making a trade Fultz. The experts might have fallen asleep while trying to watch Fultz play in college being that the games come on in the East so late when you play in Washington or for that matter most PAC12 games are not watched in the Mid West or the East because of the time changes. When Fultz was drafted number one overall I thought Philly management was crazy. Sometimes I wonder if the powerful agents to represent players don't actually control everything that happens in the NBA."

I've seen little of Fultz so I'm certainly not pounding on the table to trade for him. There are general considerations that make me favor that kind of trade for this team, but I respect you having watched him a lot. I thought he looked solid playing against us early in the year (and he certainty wasn't a ball hog then, nor was he given an opportunity to be one.) I do take the fact that he was a consensus top choice (at worst top 3) seriously; some years no one stands high above the crowd at draft time. I sympathize with criticism of NBA talent evaluators; for instance, I'm befuddled myself as to why someone could see Stanley as more skilled than Booker, and overlook his glaring shooting form problem at the NBA level, but we've covered that one enough. A recent update doesn't cast a positive light on Fultz: https://deadspin.com/this-lengthy-markelle-fultz-update-is-a-real-bummer-1831107370.

With Fultz the one thing that stands out to me as a college prospect, and I can be accused of giving too much weight to the stats, is that he could really shoot from distance in college: .416 is very good even from the shorter college distance. And the sample size seems significant.

It's also notable that his FT% was nothing special in college (64.9%), but still far better than his .534 as a pro (and that includes significant improvement this year!).

On our side, I can't see Ish coming back. He'll get a better deal elsewhere than we would offer. And I'm a big Reggie B. fan, but, sadly, I think it's really unlikely he'll come back. I don't think this year is going to amount to much of anything for the team, and you're mainly giving up two guys who likely won't be here next year. In effect, if Reggie B is indeed a goner as I think he is, you're trading a 2nd rounder for the top pick a year and a half ago. Worth the gamble I think, especially because Fultz's very good college distance shooting indicates his shooting woes can be corrected.

Of course, I'm not enthused about a ball hog who doesn't pass to teammates. That's not what I saw when he played for Philly, but he just may not have gotten to show what you're describing, Don. And that's not much to go on.

In general, as you all know, I think the Pistons are stuck in a lengthy rut of mediocrity. If that's right, some bold gambling may be the way they need to go. You may be right, Don, that Fultz isn't the one to gamble on. As a team, I doubt Detroit will get many opportunities to go big, to really roll the dic. Incidentally, it's sounding moot, at least for the time being, with Philly rejecting trade offers.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:06 pm

Sparma wrote:NBC Sports Philadelphia: "But Smith's money alone wouldn't be enough to match in a deal for Fultz. Smith coupled with Reggie Bullock and possibly a second-round pick would work financially and it wouldn't be the worst trade for the Sixers."

I like both Ish and Bullock, but Ish's a goner for sure at the end of season and Reggie B may well be too.  I think they'll be able to keep either Bullock or Stanley.  Our hugest problem is shooting (or is it D?), so I'd want to keep Bullock rather than Stanley if it comes down to a choice.  Crazy that a mediocre team couldn't hold on to its best shooter (along with Kennard) and its best defender, but here we are.

Other deals are being thrown around, like Galloway and a protected 1st, but I can't see getting it down.

I'm not a Fultz fan, and we desperately need what he hasn't been able to deliver: shooting.  Not to mention that we've been dishing out 2nd rounders like Tootsie Rolls at a parade.  On the other hand, we need a big talent upgrade and this might be the best shot, although a long shot, to pull if off.  And Fultz did shoot well from distance in college.  If I knew for sure that Bullock's leaving anyway at the end of the season, I'd do it.  Given our grim prospects, there's a need to gamble, but....

Kennard's name being tossed around too.  Say it isn't so!

I didn't mean to jump down your throat relating to your idea of making a trade for Fultz. The experts might have fallen asleep while trying to watch Fultz play in college being that the games come on in the East so late when you play in Washington or for that matter most PAC12 games are not watched in the Mid West or the East because of the time changes. When Fultz was drafted number one overall I thought Philly management was crazy. Sometimes I wonder if the powerful agents to represent players don't actually control everything that happens in the NBA.

Fultz is not a player like Zeke who was drafted 2nd in his draft class. Thomas was a high basketball IQ player who could play both offense and defense well and in fact every aspect of the game. So it was easy to predict that wherever Zeke went, his team was going to win big in the NBA. To me the following would be the only way Detroit should entertain trading for this player. Trade Leuer for Fultz and take a gamble on Fultz possibly learning all phases of the game in time. His contract for 2018 is $8,339.880 and he makes $12,288,887 in 20-21. This would be a positive trade for the Pistons. Fultz might become a better defender than Jackson or Smith in time. He is athletic but cannot shoot the ball as well as Reggie. Smith's game bothers me a lot because he goes solo so much and cannot defend many NBA players. But Smith's contract does expire so there is no need to compare the two players now. Moving Leuer would be a big win for the Pistons for sure. Also, the other guy I would like to be traded is Galloway who has another contract that is almost impossible to move.

No first or 2nd round picks should be thrown in by Tom Gores if Detroit is interested. Philly wants to move their number one pick as soon as possible and rid themselves of that contract so I do not believe they could be convinced to accept either Leuer or Galloway unless the Pistons threw in Johnson or Kennard. I believe the Pistons need to keep both of those players but somehow they have dropped the ball relating to Stanley Johnson and I believe there is no way he will be returning to the Pistons. If Johnson is included, the Pistons have no player who is capable of stopping the elite players in the NBA. Brown is a fantastic pick and Murph sure knew what he was talking about regarding him. Maybe the Pistons could develop Thomas into a defensive ace. But I don't want the Pistons to make that trade and then Brown would sit the bench. We have to remember that Dwayne plays the guys with the biggest contracts regardless of how they perform. That is why I was not happy when he was hired. Even SVG would not have inserted Jackson and Galloway into the last game and sat Kennard who had been playing his best defense since he arrived. The Pistons had been successful with ball and player movement with Brown and Kennard on the floor. That made Reggie Jackson a bigger weapon because he is showing that he can hit open shots from distance while playing with two guys like Brown and Kennard who are always moving and can see the floor. Dwayne gets the dunce cap award for blowing this last game that could have been won. That was the best that I have seen the Pistons play this season until the overtime period when Casey ignored what had been working in that game and reverted to the old style where Reggie Jackson controlled the offense. Amazing that any head coach would do that.

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Are you kidding me about Fultz???

Post  cool breeze on Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:48 pm

No No No please don't suggest such a thing. Tom Gores might do it. It is clear that none of you know anything about this player. I have seen him play in two different arenas and on television while he was in college for another 6 games. What always puzzled me was why he was ever listed in the draft boards as a high number one pick. He was a ball hog at Washington never passing up a shot when an open teammate was wide open under the basket. His defense was absolutely horrible as well and he was by far the worst defender on his team at Washington. Washington was one of the worst teams in the PAC12 during his one year there. Philly wasted there pick on Fultz. But if you want more of the same when you watch the Pistons and love losing then tell Tom Gores to make another bogus trade. People hear a name and jump on it based on fiction not fact. TJ McConnell beat out Fultz for good reason and TJ was not drafted by anyone. TJ should have been named the PAC12 MVP as Bill Walton who announces PAC12 games says to this day. If the Pistons had a player like TJ they would immediately play with a much higher basketball IQ. Basketball IQ means everything if you want to win. If you want to look at stats for the team you follow, then good for you. The Pistons have a player now who should be starting at point guard. His name is Luke Kennard. But Dwayne plays contracts. That is why he caused this last loss by inserting Galloway and Jackson together in the last game in crunch time.

I see real good potential with the last starting unit if Casey doesn't change it. AD, BG, BB, LK, RJ. Jackson and AD are the only weak defenders and AD really came on with much better defense after the first quarter in the last game. Those 5 players do well together and I think it is the fact that there are better defenders on the floor along with the fact that Jackson plays the role of spot up shooter and is not the primary ball handler. In the last game, when Dwayne brought out Reggie and Galloway, Reggie became the primary ball handler again and the Pistons crashed as usual. Bruce Brown and Kennard have high basketball IQs and they actually know how to play in an offense that features ball movement and player movement. Meanwhile, I guarantee that Fultz would give the Pistons the same look on offense as Jackson and Smith with less success. But then maybe some of you would love it if the Pistons give up another number one pick or one of our young promising players. The Pistons continue to lose because they have 5 players holding all the cards or money. Only AD and BG are players that should have been signed but they both are killing the Piston payroll. Yet at least those two players have real value. Philly will find a sucker and maybe it will be the Pistons. Piston management is known throughout the league was being dim witted especially after that trade with the Clippers but owners and GMs also remember the trade involving Iverson and Jennings and the free agent signings of Leuer, Charlie V, Ben Gordon on and on and on. When will things turn around and the Piston owner will crawl out of the Dark Ages?

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Fultz, Go For It !!!!

Post  lemonpen on Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:35 am

What do the following guys have in common.

Mr. Big Shot

Richard Hamilton

Rasheed Wallace



They were someone else's lottery pick, eventually made available to us.
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Fultz

Post  Murph on Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:32 am

I would do that trade in a heartbeat.   And as Sparma pointed out, Ish will not be back next year, and whether or not Bullock returns is up in the air.  

We need to get younger.  Fultz will be a long term project, health wise.  His shoulder and neck need to heal, and then he needs to develop a shot based on a healthy shoulder.  But it's the kind of risk that the Pistons should take at this point.  We need to get younger, and Fultz, if healthy, could be a major part of our long term plans, long after Griffin is finally gone.

And then we could finally move Reggie out of the starting line-up.  Reggie could take over Ish's role.  On the 2nd unit, Reggie could have the ball in his hands most of the time, dribble around to his hearts content, and score all he wants.

Ish already played well for the 76ers, and would help with their playoff run, and they could always use a shooter like Bullock.

DO NOT TRADE KENNARD.  He's a deal breaker.  He's finally healthy and playing well.

Sparma wrote:NBC Sports Philadelphia: "But Smith's money alone wouldn't be enough to match in a deal for Fultz. Smith coupled with Reggie Bullock and possibly a second-round pick would work financially and it wouldn't be the worst trade for the Sixers."

I like both Ish and Bullock, but Ish's a goner for sure at the end of season and Reggie B may well be too.  I think they'll be able to keep either Bullock or Stanley.  Our hugest problem is shooting (or is it D?), so I'd want to keep Bullock rather than Stanley if it comes down to a choice.  Crazy that a mediocre team couldn't hold on to its best shooter (along with Kennard) and its best defender, but here we are.

Other deals are being thrown around, like Galloway and a protected 1st, but I can't see getting it down.

I'm not a Fultz fan, and we desperately need what he hasn't been able to deliver: shooting.  Not to mention that we've been dishing out 2nd rounders like Tootsie Rolls at a parade.  On the other hand, we need a big talent upgrade and this might be the best shot, although a long shot, to pull if off.  And Fultz did shoot well from distance in college.  If I knew for sure that Bullock's leaving anyway at the end of the season, I'd do it.  Given our grim prospects, there's a need to gamble, but....

Kennard's name being tossed around too.  Say it isn't so!
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Ish and Bullock and 2nd Rounder for Fultz?

Post  Sparma on Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:54 pm

NBC Sports Philadelphia: "But Smith's money alone wouldn't be enough to match in a deal for Fultz. Smith coupled with Reggie Bullock and possibly a second-round pick would work financially and it wouldn't be the worst trade for the Sixers."

I like both Ish and Bullock, but Ish's a goner for sure at the end of season and Reggie B may well be too.  I think they'll be able to keep either Bullock or Stanley.  Our hugest problem is shooting (or is it D?), so I'd want to keep Bullock rather than Stanley if it comes down to a choice.  Crazy that a mediocre team couldn't hold on to its best shooter (along with Kennard) and its best defender, but here we are.

Other deals are being thrown around, like Galloway and a protected 1st, but I can't see getting it down.

I'm not a Fultz fan, and we desperately need what he hasn't been able to deliver: shooting.  Not to mention that we've been dishing out 2nd rounders like Tootsie Rolls at a parade. On the other hand, we need a big talent upgrade and this might be the best shot, although a long shot, to pull if off.  And Fultz did shoot well from distance in college.  If I knew for sure that Bullock's leaving anyway at the end of the season, I'd do it.  Given our grim prospects, there's a need to gamble, but....

Kennard's name being tossed around too.  Say it isn't so!
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Swap Em Out?

Post  BallinD on Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:29 pm

Great post Lemonpen,

I posted a couple of weeks ago that Dre and Weggie were the one constant in the dumbfounding inconsistency in Pistons play over the past few years and too often find a way to shrink under the spotlight. I advocate addition by subtraction so we don’t continue to repeat the definition of insanity a few times each season as we trot out excuses for what was supposed to be our core.

Hope a trade is coming...Gores can see the light and realizes it may be a train while Weggie stands on the track dribbling as Dre sulks cause a guard blocks his shot.
I was talking shop with another Pistons fan who closely follows the NBA and we came to the same conclusion: Blake, Brown and SJ , are the only ones to keep. Nobody else plays with consistent NBA grit and effort. We also keep Kennard and give him Consistent Starters Minutes and his own plus half of Weggie’s usage and threes and half of Stanley’s and see what he can do
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Same Old Song & Dance

Post  lemonpen on Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:57 am

I think Casey can slide his chess pieces around the board all day long and realize no more of a positive outcome. Our talent has proven itself sufficient to compete at a high level often enough this season. The funny thing about living chess pieces is how their power ebbs and flows as grey matter / heart / desire come into play.

Wednesday’s loss wasn’t as disappointing as it was disgusting. I’ve seen this story too many times. The roles have changed but the actors are the same. Winning teams are led by a winning core.
There is no excuse for the STARK difference in our willingness to compete during the 1st half versus the 3rd quarter. No excuse.

Will Power
In my view only 3 Pistons play with an UNWAVERING WILL. Griffin, Johnson, Brown. No matter the circumstance they continue to COMPETE with energy, head, heart and skill. Regardless of the outcome I never question their desire to win each play. The problem as I see it is that the same CANNOT be said of our 2nd and 3rd most important players, RJax & Andre.

When I focus my attention on only those two I often see guys willing to go only so far then pullup and stand in limbo. What else can you say about a guy who is beaten down court for scores and positive plays, multiple times, by a significantly lesser player. Or a guy who repeatedly pulls up after guarding a drive for two steps, then guards no one.
It really pisses me off to see THAT in contrast to the effort / smarts / preparation a rookie puts into guarding an AllStar.

Repeated story, different roles, same bad actors.

Sooner or later, in Pop-esque fashion, Casey is going to have to let loose on one / both of those two right in front of the whole damn world. It’s getting time to break some eggs if there is a cake to be baked.
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Place the blame where it belongs for this loss - Dwayne Casey gets an F

Post  cool breeze on Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:37 am

Incredible is the word. While I was excited to finally see some good team chemistry with the starting group in this game, Dwayne must have been sleeping. How can he defend his selection of players in overtime? Although the Pistons got off to a rough start mainly because the two front court starters were late getting back on defense, they started to form some great chemistry as time moved forward in this game. This is the first time I can think of where it appeared the starters were in sync on both offense and defense. The combination of Drummond - Griffin - Brown - Kennard - Jackson looked great especially relating to playing defense as a team. I thought Drummond had a really good game when he came back in after his first rest. Kennard played the best defense that i have ever seen him play. Brown played really smart on both ends and Blake found teammates instead of forcing shots. The Pistons turned this game around with defense but somehow Dwayne forgot that. Johnson and Brown playing together provided even more difficulty for the Hornets to score. Also I really liked the role that Reggie Jackson played for most of the game until Casey made his big mistake. Jackson was the player who stood in place and was the spot up shooter. He was good at it too. The less amount of time Reggie touches the ball the better in my opinion. He can get hot from distance. He can drive it to the basket and finish as well. Just don't place him in the role of the primary ball handler especially in crunch time.

Dwayne decides to play a group that had no chance of winning that game after all that hard work. He decided on winning this game by playing Jackson and Galloway together. This is the curse of death. The Pistons had two ineffective defenders playing on the floor at the same time. The team chemistry was horrible when the game was on the line. If you are a good coach, you need to be capable of observing trends in the game and know why your team is effective or ineffective. It appears that Dwayne does not have a clue at all. He threw in Galloway and Jackson together which left the Pistons with no chance in hell to make any stops at all.

With all of that said, I felt that this game was the most fun to watch relating to the way the Pistons played together so well for the last 3 quarters of the game with the exception of most of the first and the overtime period. There was clear evidence that the starting unit had come together because they were outplaying the Hornets where it counted most -HEART. Good job players. I think Casey for starting the group he decided on. But unless Kennard was injured he needs to step up and take the blame. Casey has watched enough games to know that Galloway and Jackson cannot hold their own on defense. He can only afford to play one of them at the same time. How can these coaches make the money they make. Any high school coach would have noticed what was working and what was not working. But Casey didn't know that he didn't know.

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LMAO

Post  WTF on Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:44 am

We need Zeke and Bill here smacking players upside the head like MJ did Monk, man what a joy it would be seeing Bill smacking AD for blown defensive assignments and Zeke smacking Reggie for well just because he's Reggie.   

I loved it for a quick second Malik look like he wanted to say something smart until he saw it was MJ.   lol
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All I want for Christmas: Indifference to this Team

Post  Sparma on Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:47 pm

What a heartbreaker. And yet not unexpected.

We did have some nice movement of the ball while moving to a sizeable lead, then our O ground to a halt. Even Kelser said towards the end that you need a little more ball movement.

Andre could have had a big memorable moment if we could have pulled it out, powering over two defenders, then hitting the free throw to tie.

What the heck is going on with Calderon and his forgotten inability to hit from deep (0-4)?

The dominant Griffin comes back and Kennard becomes marginal.

Good game by Reggie most of the way, but he did hold the ball only to hoist one up with a second to go, and later ran into a traffic jam tossing up a no chancer.

All hail to Murph for seeing that Kemba Walker was the guy to draft. (Deus, can't give you the same props on Kaminsky).

Silver lining? Bruce Brown looks like the real deal. As Kelser commented: he's got that cutting to the basket thing down.
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Thoughts

Post  BallinD on Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:26 pm

Sparma, I agree with most here, and like the idea of Calderon at pg in the first unit, and here's why: Usually Weggie makes the entry pass to Blake. in many offenses, the entry passer is the first candidate for a return pass for a 3, ala many teams, including the Dubs with Curry. So if Calderone takes that pass back from Blake, or if Luke makes that pass and gets some return passes, that usually means an open three, which they are more likely to take or fake for more action, drive and dish, etc. than Weggie who is a poorer spot-up shooter and poorer decision maker than either of these guys. With Blake's heavy usage, Casey needs secondary action off Blake and Calderone or Luke could more likely provide it.


Sparma wrote:At the beginning of the season, I felt like Casey was holding Kennard back, preferring the young vet Galloway, but maybe that was simply because he wasn't fully back.

In the past, I'd say it was Reggie holding Kennard back, with the maddening late in the clock passes that allow the D to get in place against distance shooters and allow little time for shooters to shake free from defenders.

Recently (as Casey's pointed out) it's seemed like Kennard held himself back (before Philly), playing tentatively as he recovered.

None of those are my prime suspects though.  I'd say Blake's the main guy holding Kennard back now.

Prima facie evidence: Kennard goes off with Blake out.

But does that make sense?  Isn't Blake's game a nice fit with Kennard's outside shooting.  Yes!  And no.

What I saw Kennard, and Calderon, do a bunch of times v Philly was cut to the inside, near the top of the key, trying to make something happen.  The two generated 9 TOs, including some really mystifying ones by Jose.  Still, both operated a lot, and effectively, precisely where Blake usually is.

What to do?  The biggest job facing Casey is to diversify the O.

How?  Someone wrote in to Langlois about starting Calderon (with Ish out), and he reacted pretty dismissively.  Here's why I think that's a good idea.  Reggie's heavy use rate may be a nice contribution off the bench.  Further, with Reggie in there with the first unit, it's usually either/or because if Blake gives the ball up to Reggie he usually doesn't get it back.  It's either Blake and the minions or Reggie and the minions.

Clearly, they need to mix it up.  That's really tough to pull off with Blake and Reggie.  When Calderon's out there, Blake knows he's going to get the ball back a lot if he's out there, or if he plays off the ball.  

With Calderon out there, Blake's more willing to take turns and clear the middle regularly.  This is exactly what Kennard needs for him to play in the manner he did v Philly (the shot % varies of course).  I don't think Kennard can pull off playing as PG for long, but he does benefit tremendously from handling the ball, from trying to make things happen.  He may get his shots with Blake and Reggie in there, but he's not going to get the play making opportunities that led to his excellent games (even with all the TOs).

So maybe I am assigning blame to Reg, along with Blake.  And I'm assigning tertiary play making duties to Luke.  So throw the 37 yo defensive liability out there with the first unit, not because he could hold his own 1 on 1 with Reggie (he couldn't), but because it diversifies the O, most importantly by encouraging Kennard to be more than an outside shooter.


BallinD wrote:According to Yahoo, Stones top 3 in League hunting for a scorer/shooter on the trade market to supplement Blake.  

When Luke starts and hunts for his shot he is pretty damn good; avg 22 ppg.  He’s gotta be aggressive, we all know that. But will Weggie support that notion?  During his potential “Breakout” game in Philly, several of us noticed Weggie look him off down the stretch and hoist away, despite the kid’s efforts and sucess that night.  For his trouble, Weggie snagged a couple meaningless 3s as they pulled away.  He got his no.s  up, but why not feed the hot hand, Weggie?

Luke could be the skeleton key to unlok the offense around Blake and relieves some of the playmaking pressure off the big guy in a complimentary way.  IMO, Casey really needs to start him and give him the Green light and see where it goes.  It would be fun!  

One poster on another site said depending on Weggie to be that supplementary playmaker is like pouring cold oil in a sputtering engine, LOL

@Sparma:  Kennard with the monster game (apart from 5 TOs). Do we see him starting at SF for a spell?

Dre really held his own with Embiid, as I'd hoped he would.

Reggie with a solid game.
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Re: FORUM

Post  BallinD on Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:17 pm

Beal is probably out of reach, but Leuer Ish Galloway, Bullock, could be trade chips, though I'd prefer to roll through the season with Weggie, Luke, Bullock, Blake and Dre if we have to keep RJax, but I want Luke elevated to 2nd option, with Bullock 3rd.
I'd really like to see Khyri Thomas get some extended situational burn vs Brown in stints, just to see.  He hasn't been healthy to start the season and pre-season, but was 2x all Big East Defensive player of the year, so it's not like he can't defend maybe on a par with Brown, and he has proven to have a mature offensive game (38 pts high game in G-League) Worth a look.

Oracle wrote:
BallinD wrote:According to Yahoo, Stones top 3 in League hunting for a scorer/shooter on the trade market to supplement Blake.  
First, more bad news(mostly depth wise): A pair of Pistons players, Glenn Robinson III and Henry Ellenson, have been diagnosed with ankle sprains and will be re-evaluated in two weeks, tweets Keith Langlois of Pistons.com. Ellenson had only appeared in two games this season, so his absence won’t impact the team significantly, but Robinson has started 16 games so far, averaging 16.0 MPG.

Yes we're looking, but looking for things we likely can't afford.  I hear Darren Collison is available, but actually Calderone looked pretty damn serviceable in the Philly game.

We do have assets in Kennard and Stanley, who both could be attractive to a team rebuilding, but do we sell the future for a shaky present? Nope.  This team has not had a full complement of shooters/playmakers (Luke/vintage Bullock) around Blake yet, so we havent unlocked the puzzle of the offense yet, our achilles heel.

Other than that, we're drier than a desert at high noon. We have contracts containing limited talent in Leuer & Galloway, and Reggie who used to have better talent, but still carrying head issues and a game not compatible with winning basketball.  

In short the cupboard is pretty bare, and anybody that could really help us likely can't be had for small change items.

Having said that, stranger things have happened in the NBA, so anything is possible!

The real question is if we do get one more good player, does that change enough to be worth it? I'm not sure that we get so much better that we challenge anybody of consequence.

IMO, that means we don't give up out 1st round pick and we don't give up Kennard or Stanley. Trade ONLY if we can move Galloway, Leuer, Ish or Bullock.
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Who's Blocking Kennard?

Post  Sparma on Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:01 pm

At the beginning of the season, I felt like Casey was holding Kennard back, preferring the young vet Galloway, but maybe that was simply because he wasn't fully back.

In the past, I'd say it was Reggie holding Kennard back, with the maddening late in the clock passes that allow the D to get in place against distance shooters and allow little time for shooters to shake free from defenders.

Recently (as Casey's pointed out) it's seemed like Kennard held himself back (before Philly), playing tentatively as he recovered.

None of those are my prime suspects though. I'd say Blake's the main guy holding Kennard back now.

Prima facie evidence: Kennard goes off with Blake out.

But does that make sense? Isn't Blake's game a nice fit with Kennard's outside shooting. Yes! And no.

What I saw Kennard, and Calderon, do a bunch of times v Philly was cut to the inside, near the top of the key, trying to make something happen. The two generated 9 TOs, including some really mystifying ones by Jose. Still, both operated a lot, and effectively, precisely where Blake usually is.

What to do? The biggest job facing Casey is to diversify the O.

How? Someone wrote in to Langlois about starting Calderon (with Ish out), and he reacted pretty dismissively. Here's why I think that's a good idea. Reggie's heavy use rate may be a nice contribution off the bench. Further, with Reggie in there with the first unit, it's usually either/or because if Blake gives the ball up to Reggie he usually doesn't get it back. It's either Blake and the minions or Reggie and the minions.

Clearly, they need to mix it up. That's really tough to pull off with Blake and Reggie. When Calderon's out there, Blake knows he's going to get the ball back a lot if he's out there, or if he plays off the ball.

With Calderon out there, Blake's more willing to take turns and clear the middle regularly. This is exactly what Kennard needs for him to play in the manner he did v Philly (the shot % varies of course). I don't think Kennard can pull off playing as PG for long, but he does benefit tremendously from handling the ball, from trying to make things happen. He may get his shots with Blake and Reggie in there, but he's not going to get the play making opportunities that led to his excellent games (even with all the TOs).

So maybe I am assigning blame to Reg, along with Blake. And I'm assigning tertiary play making duties to Luke. So throw the 37 yo defensive liability out there with the first unit, not because he could hold his own 1 on 1 with Reggie (he couldn't), but because it diversifies the O, most importantly by encouraging Kennard to be more than an outside shooter.


BallinD wrote:According to Yahoo, Stones top 3 in League hunting for a scorer/shooter on the trade market to supplement Blake.  

When Luke starts and hunts for his shot he is pretty damn good; avg 22 ppg.  He’s gotta be aggressive, we all know that. But will Weggie support that notion?  During his potential “Breakout” game in Philly, several of us noticed Weggie look him off down the stretch and hoist away, despite the kid’s efforts and sucess that night.  For his trouble, Weggie snagged a couple meaningless 3s as they pulled away.  He got his no.s  up, but why not feed the hot hand, Weggie?

Luke could be the skeleton key to unlok the offense around Blake and relieves some of the playmaking pressure off the big guy in a complimentary way.  IMO, Casey really needs to start him and give him the Green light and see where it goes.  It would be fun!  

One poster on another site said depending on Weggie to be that supplementary playmaker is like pouring cold oil in a sputtering engine, LOL

@Sparma:  Kennard with the monster game (apart from 5 TOs). Do we see him starting at SF for a spell?

Dre really held his own with Embiid, as I'd hoped he would.

Reggie with a solid game.
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There's no maybe about it...

Post  Oracle on Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:09 pm

BallinD wrote:According to Yahoo, Stones top 3 in League hunting for a scorer/shooter on the trade market to supplement Blake.  
First, more bad news(mostly depth wise): A pair of Pistons players, Glenn Robinson III and Henry Ellenson, have been diagnosed with ankle sprains and will be re-evaluated in two weeks, tweets Keith Langlois of Pistons.com. Ellenson had only appeared in two games this season, so his absence won’t impact the team significantly, but Robinson has started 16 games so far, averaging 16.0 MPG.

Yes we're looking, but looking for things we likely can't afford.

We do have assets in Kennard and Stanley, who both could be attractive to a team rebuilding, but do we sell the future for a shaky present?

Other than that, we're drier than a desert at high noon. We have contracts containing limited talent in Leuer & Galloway, and Reggie who used to have better talent, but still carrying head issues and a game not compatible with winning basketball.

In short the cupboard is pretty bare, and anybody that could really help us likely can't be had for small change items.

Having said that, stranger things have happened in the NBA, so anything is possible!

The real question is if we do get one more good player, does that change enough to be worth it? I'm not sure that we get so much better that we challenge anybody of consequence.

IMO, that means we don't give up out 1st round pick and we don't give up Kennard or Stanley. Trade ONLY if we can move Galloway, Leuer, Ish or Bullock.
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Maybe Its Hunting Season

Post  BallinD on Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:59 pm

According to Yahoo, Stones top 3 in League hunting for a scorer/shooter on the trade market to supplement Blake.

When Luke starts and hunts for his shot he is pretty damn good; avg 22 ppg. He’s gotta be aggressive, we all know that. But will Weggie support that notion? During his potential “Breakout” game in Philly, several of us noticed Weggie look him off down the stretch and hoist away, despite the kid’s efforts and sucess that night. For his trouble, Weggie snagged a couple meaningless 3s as they pulled away. He got his no.s up, but why not feed the hot hand, Weggie?

Luke could be the skeleton key to unlok the offense around Blake and relieves some of the playmaking pressure off the big guy in a complimentary way. IMO, Casey really needs to start him and give him the Green light and see where it goes. It would be fun!

One poster on another site said depending on Weggie to be that supplementary playmaker is like pouring cold oil in a sputtering engine, LOL

@Sparma: Kennard with the monster game (apart from 5 TOs). Do we see him starting at SF for a spell?

Dre really held his own with Embiid, as I'd hoped he would.

Reggie with a solid game.
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The Eastern Conference is in ruins now that James left Cleveland

Post  cool breeze on Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:47 pm

Take a look at the standings in the Eastern Conference. Four teams including Atlanta, Cleveland and Chicago have only 6 wins so we might assume they are preparing for next summer's draft. NY has only 8 wins while the Nets who beat up on the Pistons have only won 10 games. There are only 5 Eastern Conference teams who have better records than our Pistons. Detroit got their wins beating up on the bottom feeders with the exception of Golden State victory who played the Pistons will two starters out.

Then moving on up to the Western Conference the real truth comes out relating to who the Pistons really are this season. I believe the Pistons are no better this season than over the last two seasons. In the Western Conference Detroit might be lucky to be the 11th or 12th best team with no hope of making the playoffs. So in a sense we Piston fans can feel lucky that our team plays in the Eastern Conference. Still it might be smart to plan for the future and develop our young players and hunt for players in the G-League. I think the Pistons could trade Andre Drummond and still make the playoffs this season if that is all this owner has as his objective. Detroit won't get a high draft pick if nothing changes in the standings. There will be a slim chance of a super star coming to the Pistons though the draft. Maybe that is the way this owner likes it. Maybe he can sign Reggie Jackson to a new long term deal at the end of this season. He will be older and wiser after the end of this season too. And AD really likes Reggie too so everything is good. After all the Pistons play in the Eastern Conference.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:09 pm

Sparma wrote:Kennard with the monster game (apart from 5 TOs).  Do we see him starting at SF for a spell?

Dre really held his own with Embiid, as I'd hoped he would.

Reggie with a solid game.

Ellenson contributing.  Maybe time to give him some minutes?

And lots of bad stuff.  Late in the game, Philly was up on second hand points something like 26 to 7.  We seem to excel at making guys look like All-Stars whom I haven't heard of before.  Korkmaz tonight.

btw, weren't we supposed to be at the cutting edge of international scouting at one point?  Darko didn't ruin that did he?
Somewhere there's a guy shooting the lights out who'd be available to us.  Help!

Sparma to be realistic you need to know that Embid played the game with a migraine headache. It was clear when watching his facial expressions that he was suffering yet still effective when necessary. But I agree with you that Andre Drummond played really hard and showed a lot of courage in this game. When I write about my wish for the Pistons to trade AD, my thoughts are for what would be best for the future of the Pistons. AD is a wonderful person and really put forth a lot of effort to win this game. But out of the five bad contracts involving AD, BG, RJ, JL and LG, which one can the Pistons hope to move to improve their financial position? Murph has pointed out that if the Pistons do nothing there will be some expiring contracts next season that other teams might want to bite on. But that wouldn't happen until the trade deadline next season in my opinion. The Pistons are going to win a championship. This coach is not going to sit Reggie Jackson, Jon Leuer, or Langston Galloway on the bench if they are on the active roster. The team could buy out some contracts to make room for playing time for the young players who might turn out to be solid players eventually. Moving AD's contract could net the Pistons a high draft pick and a decent player. Then there is the money factor where the Pistons lose a contract in excess of $20M.

The owner has it in stone that AD is not to be considered in any potential trade. It has been this owner who has caused the biggest problems with his decision making especially involving the Blake Griffin trade where he went against his front office at the time to make this lone wolf move that will cause the Pistons to suffer for many years.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:39 pm

Murph wrote:Don, why do you continually bring up Deandre Ayton as if it's somehow the Pistons fault, or Drummond's fault that they didn't draft him?  

He was the number one pick.  It's not as if the Pistons passed on him.


Btw, your guy, Donovan Mitchell, is having a pretty crappy year for a pretty crappy team.  That was the guy you spent all last season beating up the Pistons for not drafting.

Why do I bring up Ayton so much? Maybe I am trying to prove to posters like you that it is important for a scrub team like the Pistons to somehow secure some high draft picks or at least get one guy in the first round. If you don't do that and draft wisely there is no way that your team will ever develop into a top tier team. Last night I watched the Clippers-Suns game and recorded the Pistons Philly game. The Suns had a sizable lead until middle of the 4th quarter. Then the Clippers got serious with Tobias Harris, Avery Bradley and their first round draft pick that they got from the Pistons named Alexander. The game went into overtime and was really fun to watch. Ayton had an off game for him playing only 27 minutes while scoring 20 points on 9-14 shooting, 12 rebounds and 3 assists. By the way, wish that the Pistons could get the Suns back up center Holmes. He plays a lot like Ben Wallace. The Suns rookie Bridges was really good last night playing 38 minutes and scoring 19 points on 6-12.

But what made me really feel bad was the way Tobias Harris, Boban, and Avery Bradley along with Alexander. Harris is not ball dominate like Griffin. He played 41 minutes scoring 33  points on 11-19 shooting. He never forced anything playing smart for the entire game. Meanwhile Alexander played 33 minutes scoring 16 points on 8-12 shooting. Alexander is a smart two way player as a rookie. Somehow he gets to play a lot of minutes on a good team while our young players sit while players like Leuer, Jackson, Smith, Galloway, Bullock play a lot of minutes when healthy on a dysfunctional bad team. Maybe the team is dysfunctional because of the same group of players we have watched now for the past 3 seasons. Is that possible Murph? Do we not need a yearly influx of top talent if the Pistons are still a substandard team? Should management continue to get away with smoke and mirrors trying to sell fans on players who are older with only slight potential to improve? The Suns have a lot of young talented players who are all getting a lot of minutes now while their management prepares to snag more top talent in the next draft. That is why I bring up the Suns. But last night really showed me how dysfunctional the Pistons owner and anyone else who had a part of the Blake Griffin trade.  While every other team that has no chance of winning a championship makes plans to build a team that could have a chance through the draft, the Pistons continue to trot out Leuer, Galloway, Jackson and if healthy, Bullock, Robinson, Smith etc.Who will it be next season. Nobody should have any confidence in any decision this owner makes in the future. Who you get to play with as young players means everything relating to your future. Affalo, Middleton, Amir Johnson, Stanley Johnson, and Middleton had no chance of reaching their full potential when they played for the Pistons. I include Johnson because he is long gone. Who would want another season of playing with Griffin, Drummond, Jackson, Leuer and Galloway as the big money winners while Casey plays those contracts to the fullest extent possible. While Brown is now showing some promise look for Smith, Bullock, and Robinson to take his minutes when they are healthy again. That leaves Thomas to rot on the bench next to Ellenson when Henry does get to dress for the games. Outstanding player development Mr. Gores. Outstanding planning for the future as we are locked in with Blake's contract for many years yet the Pistons were more fun to watch last night without him playing.  

It is a great thing that Dwayne decided to rest Griffin last night. The Pistons were more fun to watch. It was cool to see Henry get some minutes. I thought he might have fractured his leg when a player fell on his leg. Henry was able to return to the game later and hit one 3 point shot. Henry has been riding the pine now for a long time. He hasn't been able to play in any games so his rhythm and timing was off. Have any of you played organized basketball and suffered an injury? Then when you get thrown back in a game after a lot of time off, have you felt like you don't belong? The Pistons have really screwed with Henry's confidence. He needs to play in real games. Why in hell would the coach decide to play Leuer knowing that if he cares about the Pistons long term future? Young guys need to play. The coach has to find a way to get them in games before they lose confidence, timing etc. The coach makes or breaks the future of young guys. There can be no excuse for not sending Henry down to the G-League last season and this season if he isn't going to play. This is a waste of a first round draft pick. The Pistons have been the problem not Henry. If Thomas is going to sit the bench, then send him to the G League so he can play in real games. Other NGA teams do this. What in hell is wrong with the Pistons. They have no interest in securing or developing young talent. Instead we get to see Reggie Jackson create another turnover or fail to play effective defense. Opps sorry coach I shouldn't have jumped into that 3 point shooter again. Oh don't worry Reggie we love you and we can't wait to sign you again. You should be making more money.

Murph the Pistons roster sucks. The coaching sucks. The only way to start another era where the Pistons can potentially get better is to buy out Leuer, Buy out Jackson, and trade Andre Drummond. The Pistons need to get into a more advantageous financial position and start hitting home runs in the draft. Some of these young guys in college now are far more athletic and play with a higher basketball iQ then the players we have. It would be fun to watch some of the best college talent suit up for the Pistons. We haven't had a high draft pick in many years. There is no way this team is going anywhere. Casey should be playing Kennard as starting point guard. He should be playing Henry in every game and not playing Jon Leuer at all. Brown and Thomas should be getting minutes from Galloway, and the rest of the injured players who had been sucking up all the minutes. And the Pistons have blown their chances of signing Johnson who is only 22 years old. Reminds me of Amir Johnson's experience with the Pistons. Dumb and dumber is what the Clippers management call our owners group and the Piston's front office. Throwing in our number 1 pick was insane so who has Tom Gores ear? Is it his son or another buddy who is in the ownership group of clowns?

By the way after watching two NBA games involving 4 different teams, I found in both games that the officials made some horrible calls. Last night that officiating crew really screwed the Pistons. Meanwhile, there were some incredible calls or no calls against the suns and close to the end of overtime, the Clippers head coach walked onto the middle of the court before the whistle blew during a time when two players were still fighting for the basketball. That should have been a easy technical foul call for the refs to make but they ignored his presence among the players. The announcers started to laugh when that call was not made saying just another night of NBA basketball.

Sorry for the excessive rant Murph. No time to proof read my evaluation of the Pistons current status.

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GRIII

Post  Murph on Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:13 pm

Is it time to give up on Robinson?  When Bullock comes back, should he replace Robinson in the starting line-up?  And then continue to bring SJ off the bench, where he plays best.

I had high hopes for Robinson, but I'm not sure what's worse, he offense or defense.  Kennard and Bullock are better options as starters this season, and I don't even think we should pick up Robinson's $4 million option for next year. That money could be used to sign a better starting SF in the off season.

Jackson, Calderone
Kennard, Brown
Bullock, Johnson
Griffin, Leuer
Drummond, Zaza
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