FORUM

Page 6 of 11 Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 5, 6, 7 ... 9, 10, 11  Next

Go down

My Lions LMAO

Post  WTF on Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:38 pm

@Oracle wrote:I planned a longer response, but I'm too busy.

I do want to say that you apply almost none of this to the Lions. You forcefully argued that Stafford deserved his money, in spite of the fact that he's yet to produce, even with some of the best receivers in the game, and IMO, where many other QB's could have done better.

I knew that would come up but the dynamics of football and basketball is almost night and day.  Yes I said that Stafford deserved his money but in the same sense I think he's overly paid as well but not in the same manner that NBA players are over paid.   Football is a how different beast to assess and t is more about team,   No one single player carries a team no matter how good they are when it comes to football.   Basketball though a team sport relies heavily on the individual talents of a player and tougher expectation.  NBA players don't rely on other team members like in the NFL 

Even the physical aspect are different and that in itself require bigger contracts, the NFL s about a game of inches and split second decision making. We can argue a QB throwing an INT but we can also argue that the CB was a great defender, or a miss route by a WR.  You can argue miss FT's and failing to box out in the same manner.   

Any Given Sunday right so I don't beat up Stafford largely because football was my best sport and I truly understood the small details of when a play fails or succeed.  I look at the whole play, what did the lineman do, where was the RB, did the defense adjust, was the WR a tick too slow.

IMO I find very little fault in Stafford game and most certainly I have no cause to question his effort or commitment,  I know that if  all the right things were in place that Stafford could take this Lions team to a Super Bowl.  There are so many other elements to the Lions losing than Stafford.

Also Stafford 135 million isn't guaranteed so while we can frown about it remember penny of BG, RJ and AD money is guaranteed.  Stafford could be cut tomorrow if the Lions wanted to just give him the portion that guaranteed.    If Stafford was put of for trade he'll be gone the same day but not the case with RJ, BG and AD.   NFL and NBA just different
avatar
WTF

Posts : 4560
Join date : 2011-12-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Wise

Post  Oracle on Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:11 pm

I planned a longer response, but I'm too busy.

I do want to say that you apply almost none of this to the Lions. You forcefully argued that Stafford deserved his money, in spite of the fact that he's yet to produce, even with some of the best receivers in the game, and IMO, where many other QB's could have done better.
avatar
Oracle

Posts : 6625
Join date : 2011-12-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

We're Not Talking About An Ugly Baby Though

Post  WTF on Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:24 pm

@Sparma wrote:If your truthful statement isn't negative the first time (I'm inclined to think it is), surely it becomes negative when it makes up 90% of what you say about our mutual friend. So yes, it's entirely possible to be negative even when truthful, even to be nasty as when correctly stating: "Your baby is ugly."

I'll use the above statement but here's where it all fall apart is that I'm not talking about an ugly baby I'm talking about grown men making millions of dollars not living up those very large pay checks.  This alone eliminates them from any exclusion of criticism period.  Not sure why they should be excluded when the mailman can be crucified for untimely delivery of the mail but it's somehow unfair and negative to be critical of a NBA player or any other sports athlete.  We don't make exceptions for doctors,  and I'm sure no one was making excuses for you in your professional career.  


@Sparma wrote:Secondly, I don't think you're right all the time, so you don't have the full extent of cover of the above. For instance, Wise says: "The answers are in the Golden Age's of this organization." I'd agree with this up to a point, when you mean focusing on teamwork, toughness, and defense.

There's no point beyond that so no need taking it further than meaning just that,  I'm not right all the time on a lot of things but I stand fast in the believe that this team lacks that focus.  But that also concludes that it results and a lot of the other things I say.   So again why in hell would I practice any level of diplomacy in regards to athletes who are grown ass men charge with the responsibility on winning NBA Titles and this also include coaches.  So you're D- analogy of having a common friend does not fit.   In fact you can't really use an real life analogy because we're talking apples and oranges.


@Sparma wrote:Would this be a fair paraphrase?: Wise: I'm not being negative, but simply stating painful truths.

Very fair when it comes to people making the level of salary these players make.  Call it the new norm all you like but if paying more for less is now the new thing then I'm not on board.  You seem to imply that I'm wrong to expect the same thing from AD and others that I and most fans expected from players of the past making far less.  I think a large part of truth is keeping it real and in perspective but then again you think I should be okay with accepting 45 win and failing in the first round as meaningful progress while not thinking about the 25 million a season said alleged All Star is making.


@Sparma wrote:Running Rip through 3 or 4 screens for a mid-range shot was a killer play back in the day, partly because you could run it against anyone; these days, it could still be a killer play, but you've have to make major offensive adjustments.


And you say this as if it's an issue or impossible to do?  Why is that Sparma?  Is it because we're getting less bang for the money spent on todays athletes?  But again you're telling me this shouldn't be a point of criticism when players fail to perform the simplest of task (like boxing out, setting screens, and so on)   
avatar
WTF

Posts : 4560
Join date : 2011-12-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Wise/ Negativity?

Post  Sparma on Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:22 pm

Wise: "I honestly wouldn't call my post negative maybe more truthful but not negative.  The truth does hurt so I understand the pain of other posters in reading my post (it's like being and a bad relationship and know it but at the same time hoping your friends don't bring it up)."

I'm not going to attempt a comprehensive answers, but I do want to make a couple of quick responses.

Would this be a fair paraphrase?: Wise: I'm not being negative, but simply stating painful truths.

I think you're sometimes right, but I also think you're sometimes wrong. Let's set that aside, and assume that you're always right. Does that imply that you're not negative? I don't think so. Let's say we have a friend who's a D student.
1) You say: Did you know that Nell's a D student?
S: No, that must be hard for her.

We have ten conversations, and in nine of them you focus on her being a D student.

The other one goes something like this:
S: Nell's a D student, but she's good at teaching pre-schoolers. In fact, she just won a prize for that.
W: She may have won a prize, but I once had a couple of friends who were way better at that. In fact, fifty years ago the number of pre-schoolers she teaches would have been below the average of the best teachers.

If your truthful statement isn't negative the first time (I'm inclined to think it is), surely it becomes negative when it makes up 90% of what you say about our mutual friend. So yes, it's entirely possible to be negative even when truthful, even to be nasty as when correctly stating: "Your baby is ugly."

Secondly, I don't think you're right all the time, so you don't have the full extent of cover of the above. For instance, Wise says: "The answers are in the Golden Age's of this organization." I'd agree with this up to a point, when you mean focusing on teamwork, toughness, and defense. The Golden Age didn't have all the answers though (and may not even have known all the questions): a) they weren't in a position to avail themselves of advanced analytics. You're in a position to know better, yet you consistently downplay statistical analysis, I think because that wasn't done in the olden days. It's hard to know the impact of analytics because much of it is proprietary. Still, I think it's fair to say that the two best times in basketball (GS and Houston) are among the team on the analytics cutting edge. It's clearer in baseball where Boston, the Cubs, and Houston used analytics as an important tool. b) You vastly underestimate the importance of the 3, again I think because that wasn't so important in our Golden Age. I'd agree that there are crucial keys to be drawn from our double golden age, but I think the notion that they have the answers has also steered you wrong. c) You can't simply replicate olden day answers because you need to score more today than those championship teams did, certainly the 2003-'04 team. Running Rip through 3 or 4 screens for a mid-range shot was a killer play back in the day, partly because you could run it against anyone; these days, it could still be a killer play, but you've have to make major offensive adjustments.
avatar
Sparma

Posts : 1387
Join date : 2011-12-17

View user profile

Back to top Go down

I'm Okay With It's Sparma

Post  WTF on Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:34 pm

@Sparma wrote:With Don, I hope that this sparsely populated forum makes it another year.  I realize that I'm treading on thin ice here, which may be quite pointless given that Murph's excellent at articulating his perspective.   Without wanting to indulge in polemics, I'm curious if Don and Wise would accept the following, or dispute it:

Proposition: At least 90% of what Don and Wise write about the current Pistons is negative.

Does that seem accurate as a descriptive statement?

Wise sounds like certain prophets to me in that he fiercely castigates the present population while harkening back to a golden age, and pointing ahead to how such an age might be restored.  So, wonderful things are said about the past, but there's a steady stream of negativity about the present.  (The harkening back to the past can become comical when a repeatedly reviled player like Moose becomes someone you might want to see back on the squad once he's an ex-Piston).  Wise lifts out Kennard and Ellenson, but that seems largely about what might be, rather than about what is.  Any positives about (coach of the year) Casey also refer to what he might do in the future.

Don's case is different, but also similar.  Don too harkens back to the glorious past, but he's also elaborately and doggedly positive ("fan"-atic) about certain players like Stanley Johnson, or Avery Bradley, or (going back a bit) Brandon Knight.  He refers less to the past as standard, then to a way of playing: smart, unselfish, team-first (of course, there's a lot of overlap with how the great Piston teams played).

I enjoy both Wise and Don as posters, but I'll confess that after a while the overwhelming negativity about the current team wears thin.

But should it?  

Let's say my proposition is true, it's descriptively accurate.  Maybe that degree of negativity is warranted given the frustrations of the past decade and the questionable long term prospects of the current group?  I've said a number of times that I find it to be a hard team to root for.  Both Don and Wise seem to suggest that a true fan should be so negative, given the commitment to Piston glories and to playing the right way.  But then Wise confesses to have less (little?) emotional attachment to the current group than past teams, including the Teal group (that played some fun but ugly basketball with Hill and Stack taking turns attacking the basket).

I forget the name of the poster we lost along the way who was relentlessly positive.

Not sure where that leaves us, and this post may be pointless or worse.  But I do wonder if we can at least agree at the level of description about my statement.





@WTF wrote:
@Oracle wrote:My advice to Wise and Don is to adopt an attitude of moving on with the new team and give them the benefit of the doubt that they need to prove themselves to the fans.

I think I was on the prove it page all along. I don't harp about SVG but I'm not all giddy about Casey which means he has to prove it.  Been watching a lot of this [players over time and they all need to prove their worth.  Really how sad is it that we can't with all honesty say this team has been better and more productive than the Teal Years than many of you hated.  

The players don't get a do over every season and we should be hitting the reset button every that ends ****.  Yes we have new coach and hopefully that helps but it not the coaching hire that have me all pumped and excited either.  Sparma is right I'll likely be miserable all season with my expectations but we should all be tired of cheering for just playoff berths which we had no business rooting for in the first place.   I want a winner so any thing less than what I expect is failure.

Sparma just because things are (present) doesn't mean it's better nor should it be accepted as better.   Like a lot of things it's always easier to turn a blind eye or pretend it doesn't exist at all because it's easier to cope that way.  The easy solution for many is to just accept it and hope things will get better one day oppose to putting in the work to make it better.  I'm not surprise that being viewed as negative would be what other's may think considering how low the bar has been set.  

I always laugh at the term Golden Age because I thinks it's more of an Age of Being Right, Morally Objective and Openly Honest.   The pay checks of these players don't match the given amount of effort and commitment to winning.  I get the feeling that like most things it's become quantity over quality which is why stats are often push to blind us from actual results.   

When I look at this current team in relations to what you called Golden Age (we know what works but keep looking for other ways to solve things) The answers are in the Golden Age's of this organization.  What I get from those less negative is that most of you keep lowering the bar with this team to find resolution as if expecting less is the answer.   Maybe me and Don go so hard because most of you have lost your overly optimistic minds and some type of balance is needed.   

I honestly wouldn't call my post negative maybe more truthful but not negative.  The truth does hurt so I understand the pain of other posters in reading my post (it's like being and a bad relationship and know it but at the same time hoping your friends don't bring it up).  Every time you all go to spouting off advance stats you all sound like battered wives defending an abusive husband.  I think you all have far too many excuses in your relationship with this team and players.
avatar
WTF

Posts : 4560
Join date : 2011-12-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Let's see if we can agree on something

Post  Sparma on Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:51 am

With Don, I hope that this sparsely populated forum makes it another year. I realize that I'm treading on thin ice here, which may be quite pointless given that Murph's excellent at articulating his perspective. Without wanting to indulge in polemics, I'm curious if Don and Wise would accept the following, or dispute it:

Proposition: At least 90% of what Don and Wise write about the current Pistons is negative.

Does that seem accurate as a descriptive statement?

Wise sounds like certain prophets to me in that he fiercely castigates the present population while harkening back to a golden age, and pointing ahead to how such an age might be restored. So, wonderful things are said about the past, but there's a steady stream of negativity about the present. (The harkening back to the past can become comical when a repeatedly reviled player like Moose becomes someone you might want to see back on the squad once he's an ex-Piston). Wise lifts out Kennard and Ellenson, but that seems largely about what might be, rather than about what is. Any positives about (coach of the year) Casey also refer to what he might do in the future.

Don's case is different, but also similar. Don too harkens back to the glorious past, but he's also elaborately and doggedly positive ("fan"-atic) about certain players like Stanley Johnson, or Avery Bradley, or (going back a bit) Brandon Knight. He refers less to the past as standard, then to a way of playing: smart, unselfish, team-first (of course, there's a lot of overlap with how the great Piston teams played).

I enjoy both Wise and Don as posters, but I'll confess that after a while the overwhelming negativity about the current team wears thin.

But should it?

Let's say my proposition is true, it's descriptively accurate. Maybe that degree of negativity is warranted given the frustrations of the past decade and the questionable long term prospects of the current group? I've said a number of times that I find it to be a hard team to root for. Both Don and Wise seem to suggest that a true fan should be so negative, given the commitment to Piston glories and to playing the right way. But then Wise confesses to have less (little?) emotional attachment to the current group than past teams, including the Teal group (that played some fun but ugly basketball with Hill and Stack taking turns attacking the basket).

I forget the name of the poster we lost along the way who was relentlessly positive.

Not sure where that leaves us, and this post may be pointless or worse. But I do wonder if we can at least agree at the level of description about my statement.





@WTF wrote:
@Oracle wrote:My advice to Wise and Don is to adopt an attitude of moving on with the new team and give them the benefit of the doubt that they need to prove themselves to the fans.

I think I was on the prove it page all along. I don't harp about SVG but I'm not all giddy about Casey which means he has to prove it.  Been watching a lot of this [players over time and they all need to prove their worth.  Really how sad is it that we can't with all honesty say this team has been better and more productive than the Teal Years than many of you hated.  

The players don't get a do over every season and we should be hitting the reset button every that ends ****.  Yes we have new coach and hopefully that helps but it not the coaching hire that have me all pumped and excited either.  Sparma is right I'll likely be miserable all season with my expectations but we should all be tired of cheering for just playoff berths which we had no business rooting for in the first place.   I want a winner so any thing less than what I expect is failure.
avatar
Sparma

Posts : 1387
Join date : 2011-12-17

View user profile

Back to top Go down

@ Forum

Post  WTF on Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:48 am

@Oracle wrote:My advice to Wise and Don is to adopt an attitude of moving on with the new team and give them the benefit of the doubt that they need to prove themselves to the fans.

I think I was on the prove it page all along. I don't harp about SVG but I'm not all giddy about Casey which means he has to prove it.  Been watching a lot of this [players over time and they all need to prove their worth.  Really how sad is it that we can't with all honesty say this team has been better and more productive than the Teal Years than many of you hated.  

The players don't get a do over every season and we should be hitting the reset button every that ends ****.  Yes we have new coach and hopefully that helps but it not the coaching hire that have me all pumped and excited either.  Sparma is right I'll likely be miserable all season with my expectations but we should all be tired of cheering for just playoff berths which we had no business rooting for in the first place.   I want a winner so any thing less than what I expect is failure.
avatar
WTF

Posts : 4560
Join date : 2011-12-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

So far, this new management is smart!

Post  Oracle on Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:39 am

We all watched a lot of games last season. One thing most of the losses we suffered had a few things in common, but one that always bothered me more than the others... We had a lead and always lost them in the 3rd or mostly the 4th.

Somebody on this new management team has been doing their homework. Everybody doesn't have to be great defenders, but you need to have enough of them to throw out there and stop big runs. 

I really didn't like the way people would blame this player or that player for letting someone go off on us, defense is a team sport, and we tried to do it for years having generally one good defender on the floor and that's a prescription for disaster.

Even this new rookie from Texas was averaging 1+ steal per game, so he plays defense as well as score(needs work on his 3 ball though).

To Don's credit, he talks about defense a lot, and rightly saw the need, but the way he blamed individuals, instead of seeing it was a personnel and coaching issue bothered me.

Now we have management that's addressing the issue without trying to force players to be something they're not, it's called coaching the team you have, not the team you wish you had.

BTW: Shout out to Sparma, I never saw that quote... I'm afraid I'm going to have to steal it... Thanks! "Most people have the will to win, few have the will to prepare to win."
avatar
Oracle

Posts : 6625
Join date : 2011-12-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

DX It Was Directed at Me and Don

Post  WTF on Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:34 am

@Murph wrote:You all need to root for the Celtics.  Marcus Morris and Aaron Baynes are your guys.  

And you pretty much despise everything about the Pistons...the owner, the coach, the center, the PG and the draft pick.

Go for it guys.  I really can't take reading this stuff anymore.

DX I was taken a back by Murph comments in this post as well.  I thought how messed up is that we need to cheer for a team just because we have more respect for Morris and Baynes than AD.  I'm at least calling like I see it oppose to just hating on a player because I developed some false truth in my head about him.  

One of the things that get talked about is keeping to the facts in discussions Morris is none of the things Murph calls him like thug, hoodlum, cancer and so on so I defend Morris as I would with any player really.   BY Murph's definition of thug then I guess most of us would be because I know I would kill a Mofo if someone offended my mom, wife, daughter, sister, girlfriend.   If Morris was everything Murph wants to call him then he in his brother would be locked up by now, that **** happened 4 or 5 years ago.   

I don't think I despise everything about the Pistons but I know a winner when I see one and I'm not joining the guessing game and jumping on the bandwagon or riding that hope train either.   Call it unfair,  but that's just the way it is and since Murph loves AD Drawer's and see no wrong maybe they should get married.

I feel like I can't take it some times tool like when all those meaningless stats get posted to validate a severely flawed player in AD,  like proclaiming him an All Star when he benefitted not from one injured player to get but 2 or 3 but it suppose to get cheered on like it was the greatest thing ever.  I'm not going to cheer that ****, that's like cheering to be second place and not a winner.

Now I really don't think I bashing when I say things, or defend the truth oppose to wishful thinking.  I'll admit I have favorites and those I root for I root for Kennard and quietly still hope Ellenson becomes the player I thought he could.  No I don't like Reggie, or AD and for the most part I'm not emotionally attached to this team like I was with the Bad Boys,  Goin 2 Work or the Teal Year Team yes I was more interested and excited with Stackhouse, Terry Mills, Grant Hill, Hunter and Houston than I am with this current group of players.  Just because I recognize the difference and choose not to embrace this group the same way doesn't mean I need to go cheer for another team.  What it mean is this team needs to be ass good at the previous Pistons teams and players I've mentioned Period.
avatar
WTF

Posts : 4560
Join date : 2011-12-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

@Murph

Post  WTF on Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:57 am

@Murph wrote:I've got it.  Let's trade Drummond to the Celtics for Baynes and Morris.  Then let's make Baynes a player-coach, and Morris is assistant player-coach.  Then Baynes and Morris can call all the meetings they want, and make themselves the focal point of the offense.

Problem solved!  Don and Wise can follow their two favorite player-coaches, and they don't have to watch Drummond anymore.  And Baynes and Morris can run the meetings and lead the team in scoring.  And Casey can go into retirement.  We may lose a few games, but who cares?  pom pom

You jest but we just might be a better team if we did do that  tb   I don't have an attachment to this team that I could say I would miss AD if he was traded short of liking Kennard not much else excites me about this team.  

I definitely liked Morris for more than I ever liked AD and at least Baynes will actually defend or at least attempt to so be careful about that comment.  I'm going to continue to defend Morris because your dislike towards him has nothing to do with basketball you hate him for outside stuff.  He not a thug, he's not even the scrub you try to make him out to be.  This so not cool and the same type of stuff you always accuse Don of but here you are doing the exact same thing blind by personal dislike. 

I at least judge AD by what I see on the court and rather it helps the team, by all accounts of the eye test it doesn't,  what the eye test showed in Morris case is that he was the best defender and not AD,  that his play and effort had more of a positive impact than AD.  Like I said take off the blinders and you can see it did for yourself.
avatar
WTF

Posts : 4560
Join date : 2011-12-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Adding to the excitement around here:

Post  Sparma on Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:51 am

Wojnarowski reports a signing for the Pistons: Keenan Evans from Texas Tech. If Woj reports it first, it's gotta be a pretty big deal. Texas Tech. Guess he would have played with Bobby Knight's son there. Bobby often said: "Most people have the will to win, few have the will to prepare to win." So true. Something to keep in mind tomorrow. And the next day.

Best wishes to Keenan with his two-way deal. Buycks made the best of it last year.
avatar
Sparma

Posts : 1387
Join date : 2011-12-17

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORUM

Post  Murph on Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:57 pm

I've got it.  Let's trade Drummond to the Celtics for Baynes and Morris.  Then let's make Baynes a player-coach, and Morris is assistant player-coach.  Then Baynes and Morris can call all the meetings they want, and make themselves the focal point of the offense.

Problem solved!  Don and Wise can follow their two favorite player-coaches, and they don't have to watch Drummond anymore.  And Baynes and Morris can run the meetings and lead the team in scoring. And Casey can go into retirement.  We may lose a few games, but who cares?  pom pom
avatar
Murph

Posts : 1230
Join date : 2011-12-13
Age : 58
Location : Wilton, CT

View user profile

Back to top Go down

DX/Sparma

Post  Oracle on Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:39 pm

DX, Sparma is 100% correct, Murph isn't talking about guys like you, me, Sparma and others, it's mostly Don. While Wise can be very negative at times, he deals with facts that are hard to argue against, Don too, but he sometimes goes too far, IMO. 

My advice to Wise and Don is to adopt an attitude of moving on with the new team and give them the benefit of the doubt that they need to prove themselves to the fans.

I'll be shocked if this negativity is present at the start of the season, but a healthy attitude of "Prove It" does make sense, and IMO, this new team wouldn't want it any other way!
avatar
Oracle

Posts : 6625
Join date : 2011-12-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Clarification?

Post  Sparma on Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:57 pm

Weren't Murph's comments targeted (primarily) at Don and Wise? At least, that's what I gathered from the exchange. Could be wrong. It's true that the post to which Deus responds has a "Forum" heading.


@deusXango wrote:
@Murph wrote:You all need to root for the Celtics.  Marcus Morris and Aaron Baynes are your guys.  
Well gawd damn! Sure I respect what Morris and Baynes brought to the Pistons, for the money and effort, and the strange fact is, they're yet to be replaced, but root for the Celtics?! Come on man!
And you pretty much despise everything about the Pistons...the owner, the coach, the center, the PG and the draft pick.
Thus far the owner has been a big disappointment, the hand-picked president/coach sabotaged the franchise, the center hasn't showed the grit an athlete of his caliber should, and our selfish PG, who specializes in S & S (sick and sucking), has been vastly overrated by too many "Pistons fans." The draft pick? Which ever one you're talking about was a big part of the saboteurs contrived plan of destruction. Yes, I despise all that sh!t being passed off as Detroit Pistons, the team I love and root for.
Go for it guys.  I really can't take reading this stuff anymore.
This is a statement of grave concern; are you under tremendous stress that shouldn't be talked about on this forum? Are you on heavy medication to deal with extreme physical pain? Whatever the real deal is, this ain't the Murph I've been reading for years.
The first thing Reggie Jackson did when he came to Detroit was stick his head "under Drummond's dress," thus endearing him to Andre...the players only meeting was aimed at Reggie's selfish, one dimensional style of play to make himself look like a star at the expense of the team. Like a little b!tch he looked to Dre for support in the room (never thinking Andre may've had as much b!tch in him as he obviously did) so Stan Van Gundy assassinated the spirit of the team upon hearing what took place in the meeting. We're all healing from the maddening disappointment of the last four years, more so from the last ten. I'm looking for a big turnaround, but will wait and see what we've got going for us now.
avatar
Sparma

Posts : 1387
Join date : 2011-12-17

View user profile

Back to top Go down

More of my two cents

Post  deusXango on Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:33 pm

@Murph wrote:You all need to root for the Celtics.  Marcus Morris and Aaron Baynes are your guys.  
Well gawd damn! Sure I respect what Morris and Baynes brought to the Pistons, for the money and effort, and the strange fact is, they're yet to be replaced, but root for the Celtics?! Come on man!
And you pretty much despise everything about the Pistons...the owner, the coach, the center, the PG and the draft pick.
Thus far the owner has been a big disappointment, the hand-picked president/coach sabotaged the franchise, the center hasn't showed the grit an athlete of his caliber should, and our selfish PG, who specializes in S & S (sick and sucking), has been vastly overrated by too many "Pistons fans." The draft pick? Which ever one you're talking about was a big part of the saboteurs contrived plan of destruction. Yes, I despise all that sh!t being passed off as Detroit Pistons, the team I love and root for.
Go for it guys.  I really can't take reading this stuff anymore.
This is a statement of grave concern; are you under tremendous stress that shouldn't be talked about on this forum? Are you on heavy medication to deal with extreme physical pain? Whatever the real deal is, this ain't the Murph I've been reading for years.
The first thing Reggie Jackson did when he came to Detroit was stick his head "under Drummond's dress," thus endearing him to Andre...the players only meeting was aimed at Reggie's selfish, one dimensional style of play to make himself look like a star at the expense of the team. Like a little b!tch he looked to Dre for support in the room (never thinking Andre may've had as much b!tch in him as he obviously did) so Stan Van Gundy assassinated the spirit of the team upon hearing what took place in the meeting. We're all healing from the maddening disappointment of the last four years, more so from the last ten. I'm looking for a big turnaround, but will wait and see what we've got going for us now.
avatar
deusXango

Posts : 2894
Join date : 2011-12-21
Location : Oaxaca, Mexico

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Stuff

Post  Oracle on Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:02 pm

@Murph wrote:Do you think your guys Marcus Morris and Arron Baynes will start for the Celtics this year?  And if they don't, should they call for a players only meeting and demand to be a bigger part of the offense?
There's no way on earth they will start for a healthy Celtics team, they're role players on a good team, hell, they both came off the bench here under normal circumstances. They're both very good players though, and yes, I rooted for the Celtics during the playoffs mainly because they both played so much and so well. Baynes looked like he slimmed down a bit to me, which helped his defensive movement.

@Don: Apology accepted.

@Murph: Don't worry or get too frustrated, a lot of people are venting and aren't ready to let go of the pain(SVG) just yet. They'll come around... time heals all wounds  lol
avatar
Oracle

Posts : 6625
Join date : 2011-12-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Quick Question

Post  Murph on Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:35 pm

Do you think your guys Marcus Morris and Arron Baynes will start for the Celtics this year? And if they don't, should they call for a players only meeting and demand to be a bigger part of the offense?
avatar
Murph

Posts : 1230
Join date : 2011-12-13
Age : 58
Location : Wilton, CT

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORUM

Post  Murph on Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:07 pm

You all need to root for the Celtics. Marcus Morris and Aaron Baynes are your guys.

And you pretty much despise everything about the Pistons...the owner, the coach, the center, the PG and the draft pick.

Go for it guys. I really can't take reading this stuff anymore.
avatar
Murph

Posts : 1230
Join date : 2011-12-13
Age : 58
Location : Wilton, CT

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:04 pm

@WTF wrote:
@Murph wrote:I am willing to concede that not all players only meeting are a bad idea, if they are constructive and called by the right players. However, THAT players only meeting was a disaster. Baynes was even more of a roll player than Morris. Baynes should not have called it, and Morris should not have let himself get caught up in Baynes' BS.

It was called by the most seasoned players and role player or not Baynes brought knowledge of winning from SA,  and Morris faired well in Phoenix so by default these were the vets on the team. Mind you a team full of players that had no clue about winning and the hard work it takes and no leadership in sight so it's only right that Baynes called and Morris would co-signed it.    

When Josh called out players and they turned on him it was basically the same thing,  Josh was the vet, the most accomplished player who had a stellar career with the Hawks trying to tell Moose, Reggie and AD what it takes to win (hard work) but they're not interested in such a thing.

This team still need a vet that going to take them to the next level were winning actually matters and hard work is required.   Murph it seems you want to shield them from this process and hope they get it all on their own and that's not going to happen.  Even Zeke had to learn it from Magic, Bird and so on not in a team meeting but on the court and off the court,  MJ learned it's taking his lumps,  Magic had vets like Wilks and Kareem to lean on, Bird had to learn they all do.  

AD won't learn **** if he doesn't stop whining like a school girl every time someone tries to tell his ass something for the good.  The only thing that went wrong in the meeting was Reggie and AD not being man enough to hear the truth.  If Gore was a real man he would have been trying to ship Reggie and AD ass out of town not Baynes and Morris.

Great comments WTF. Baynes and Morris won a lot of playing time on a high quality Celtics team this season. Baynes is fundamentally sound and plays hard. Morris really played well in the playoffs and throughout the season last year. Both must have felt like they had dies and gone to heaven after playing with our Piston team leaders AD and RJ who both acted like small children two seasons ago. Have they grown up yet? There is no doubt that Mr. Gores forced SVG to criticize the players who called for the players only meeting. The way the Pistons had been losing would make any self respecting coach beg for a players only meeting. This owner is a huge cause of why we have a losing team in Detroit. He protects the weakest players and makes them team leaders. Neither players has ever played basketball the right way. Imagine what Blake Griffin got himself into with the Gores bogus trade with the Clippers. Being that he is making Labron money and playing with dysfunctional former team leaders, it will up to him to take Mr. Gores off the hook. But in my opinion every fan should be extremely upset with this owner even more than kiss ass SVG who failed to act like a real coach should act after that players only meeting was held. It is significant that both Baynes and Morris were not on this Piston team last season and both played really well on a winning team in Boston. The Pistons keep the losers and give away the winners who hate to lose. Mr. Gores loves the way AD dances in pre game. Will he do it again next year?

cool breeze

Posts : 3019
Join date : 2011-12-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:51 pm

@Oracle wrote:I think players only meetings are one of the cornerstones of basketball teams when things are both going good and going bad.

These meetings accomplish things a coach can't always do... make people accountable! The need for these types of meetings are generally much less when the team has a strong leader who automatically makes sure everyone is accountable, but where leadership is weaker or lacking, small groups of players band together to make that happen.

Murph rightly pointed out the Isiah Thomas meeting as a horrible example. That incident took me from a huge supporter to now seeing him as a bit delusional and too into himself to be the player I thought he was. There will always be examples of people abusing something good for evil purposes.

However, these meetings can be quite rough, but they're meant to be, accountability requires hard work and dedication, and some people need to be pushed to be the best they can be, and coaches sometimes need this level of help.

What you can't have is a coach behave like SVG did, he shouldn't take sides unless something is clearly wrong, or player trust in him and each other will suffer. IMO, that's what happened here, SVG initially backed the meeting, but flip flopped like a flounder on the deck, and it basically ruined the season, nobody was the same after that.

@Don: What kind of person are you? You trashed me for no reason, which I initially assumed was a simple mistake on your part. But when Murph informed you that it was his response you had mistaken for me, you addressed the subject again, and never set the record straight... who does that?

Sorry for that Oracle. I owe you an apology for my blunder. Good comments with this post.


cool breeze

Posts : 3019
Join date : 2011-12-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Congratulations

Post  Sparma on Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:35 pm

to Malik Rose. He sounds like a great addition, but of course again time will tell.
avatar
Sparma

Posts : 1387
Join date : 2011-12-17

View user profile

Back to top Go down

LMAO

Post  WTF on Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:57 am

@Murph wrote:I am willing to concede that not all players only meeting are a bad idea, if they are constructive and called by the right players. However, THAT players only meeting was a disaster. Baynes was even more of a roll player than Morris. Baynes should not have called it, and Morris should not have let himself get caught up in Baynes' BS.

It was called by the most seasoned players and role player or not Baynes brought knowledge of winning from SA,  and Morris faired well in Phoenix so by default these were the vets on the team. Mind you a team full of players that had no clue about winning and the hard work it takes and no leadership in sight so it's only right that Baynes called and Morris would co-signed it.    

When Josh called out players and they turned on him it was basically the same thing,  Josh was the vet, the most accomplished player who had a stellar career with the Hawks trying to tell Moose, Reggie and AD what it takes to win (hard work) but they're not interested in such a thing.

This team still need a vet that going to take them to the next level were winning actually matters and hard work is required.   Murph it seems you want to shield them from this process and hope they get it all on their own and that's not going to happen.  Even Zeke had to learn it from Magic, Bird and so on not in a team meeting but on the court and off the court,  MJ learned it's taking his lumps,  Magic had vets like Wilks and Kareem to lean on, Bird had to learn they all do.  

AD won't learn **** if he doesn't stop whining like a school girl every time someone tries to tell his ass something for the good.  The only thing that went wrong in the meeting was Reggie and AD not being man enough to hear the truth.  If Gore was a real man he would have been trying to ship Reggie and AD ass out of town not Baynes and Morris.
avatar
WTF

Posts : 4560
Join date : 2011-12-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Murph Murph Murph

Post  WTF on Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:40 am

@Murph wrote:Screw Marcus Morris and his nasty attitude.  I think you folks are confusing criminal behavior for Pistons DNA.  I don't recall Ben Wallace, Dennis Rodman or Bill Laimbeer calling team meetings, attacking teammates or physically assaulting people off the court.

Come on Murph now who's acting like Don here?   Dennis wore dresses, contemplated suicide outside in the Palace parking lot while Ben participated in the Malice At The Palace and his brother threw a chair.  Amazing you have an issue with Morris for defending his mother of all people and BTW Bill wasn't some angle he somehow manage to get black balled from ever getting an NBA gig.  

I liked Morris much in the way I liked all those guys regardless to some of what you mentioned.  What's the difference between Morris and Sheed who had countless run ins with teammates, coaches and ref's?  You loved Sheed but you hate Morris SMH.    

Sadly players like Morris and Josh were the closes thing we had as far as players with a hint of Pistons DNA period certainly not that softy Moose and most definitely no AD.  You love those two as well.


Last edited by WTF on Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:59 am; edited 1 time in total
avatar
WTF

Posts : 4560
Join date : 2011-12-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORUM

Post  Murph on Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:06 am

@BallinD wrote:Murph, it was widely reported that Aron Baynes called the "players only" meeting, not Morris.  Jus Sayin.

Vince Ellis Story on Players Only Meeting

"The meeting was the idea of center Aron Baynes, but Marcus Morris did most of the talking."


Well if Aaron Baynes called the meeting, I owe an apology of sorts to Marcus Morris. It's too bad Morris got caught up in all the BS and went along with Baynes. It's no coincidence that they were both shipped to Boston for Avery Bradley's expiring contract.

I am willing to concede that not all players only meeting are a bad idea, if they are constructive and called by the right players. However, THAT players only meeting was a disaster. Baynes was even more of a roll player than Morris. Baynes should not have called it, and Morris should not have let himself get caught up in Baynes' BS.
avatar
Murph

Posts : 1230
Join date : 2011-12-13
Age : 58
Location : Wilton, CT

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Players only meetings...

Post  Oracle on Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:45 am

I think players only meetings are one of the cornerstones of basketball teams when things are both going good and going bad.

These meetings accomplish things a coach can't always do... make people accountable! The need for these types of meetings are generally much less when the team has a strong leader who automatically makes sure everyone is accountable, but where leadership is weaker or lacking, small groups of players band together to make that happen.

Murph rightly pointed out the Isiah Thomas meeting as a horrible example. That incident took me from a huge supporter to now seeing him as a bit delusional and too into himself to be the player I thought he was. There will always be examples of people abusing something good for evil purposes.

However, these meetings can be quite rough, but they're meant to be, accountability requires hard work and dedication, and some people need to be pushed to be the best they can be, and coaches sometimes need this level of help.

What you can't have is a coach behave like SVG did, he shouldn't take sides unless something is clearly wrong, or player trust in him and each other will suffer. IMO, that's what happened here, SVG initially backed the meeting, but flip flopped like a flounder on the deck, and it basically ruined the season, nobody was the same after that.

@Don: What kind of person are you? You trashed me for no reason, which I initially assumed was a simple mistake on your part. But when Murph informed you that it was his response you had mistaken for me, you addressed the subject again, and never set the record straight... who does that?
avatar
Oracle

Posts : 6625
Join date : 2011-12-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORUM

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 6 of 11 Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 5, 6, 7 ... 9, 10, 11  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum