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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:23 pm

deusXango wrote:As we near the start of training camp there's some things that vex me about this team.
1. It's loaded with perimeter players, albeit, none of which is a difference maker at SF or PG. It seems we could've got one.
2. We still talk about how important Reggie Jackson is to this team, like he's Kyrie, Wall, Lilliard, or a championship level PG.
3. The true problem with Jon Leuer is being completely overlooked; his drawback is not physical but, mental! We need him?!
4. We've made Glenn Robinson lll out to be some sort of potential savior simply because he played for the Wolverines. Not so.
5. Henry Ellenson simply can't be the scapegoat for faulty decision making; not developing Brown and Thomas will be a mistake.

If our roster is loaded with perimeter players it seems that would be the strength of the team; we've got an abundance of shooters, scorers, and defenders in those guys and with the current COTY, making adjustments based game recognition shouldn't be a problem. Gamble some in pushing the right buttons.

Did Stefanski, really go hard after players like CJ McCollum, Terry Rozier, to replace Reggie Jackson, or are we still stuck on turning a sows ear into a silk purse? If there's endless excuses for not trading RJ, why the phuque are we penciling him in at such a prominent position? Seems like we're giving up before we get started.

Strange how the media remembers that blip on the teams radar, we so fondly refer to as "our return to the playoffs," but have convenient amnesia when it comes to recalling that without injury or pressing personal problems Leuer's game suddenly went into the toilet. Damn I miss Tolliver, almost as much as Harris/Morris.

Coach Casey is determined to make something of Stanley Johnson, which is okay with me, and GR lll is an essential part of that late career blooming and nothing more...on this roster he'll become an important rotational piece, as will Thomas, Brown, and Kennard. Hopefully Casey will play the talent over the contracts.

This team, if blessed with good health and open-minded coaching, can make a surprising turnaround this year and form a "family" type chemistry all that's required from the fan base is patience. I think we've got more going for us than against us.    

dX it seems clear why Reggie Jackson was not traded. Nobody wants his contract based on his current ability to play the point guard position on offense and his complete inability to defend any starting point guard or 2 guard n the current NBA. Also, AD doesn't want Reggie traded and AD has the ear of the owner. The owner needs to remove himself from his personal relationships with the players and allow others to make decisions on trades and draft picks. It is not just the owner who has screwed up the team chemistry and make up of the roster but his buddies who also have pieces of the ownership of the Pistons. I think the ownership group is trying to do the right thing but so many mistakes have been made regarding the composition of the roster as you pointed out along with the financial commitment to average caliber players which now handcuffs management from upgrading talent. The Pistons need a high caliber point guard or at least an average defender at that position. Smith is too small to defend starting caliber players but he is a much better defender than Reggie. Can this coach find one player currently on the roster who can take the starting job from Reggie? I would bet that Kennard can do a better job and if not Brown or Thomas might surprise as the season wears on. In my opinion, Reggie Jackson's only chance of success at this point in his career is to play more off the ball and shoot it from distance at a high percentage. Reggie is a good shooter and driver. But can he make a commitment to defense and create offense without the ball constantly in his hands? Or will Reggie come off the bench as winter closes in? It seems the best option for the Pistons is for Blake Griffin to initiate the offense on most possessions.

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Re: FORUM

Post  Murph on Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:38 pm

Go ahead and impeach him.  He'll still get re-elected.

Democrats are scrumbags.  They can't come up with any decent policies, so they play these bullshit gotcha games to try to win back the White House.

Here's a concept.  How about Democrats actually come up with some ideas that are good for the country...instead of their usual socialist, globalist, neo-conservative crap?
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Okay I Couldn't Resist

Post  WTF on Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:24 pm

Talking about getting backdoored  facepalm  This is too funny they threw collusion in his face (which he did) all the while sticking him in his arse with campaign fraud and obstruction.  Nothing Fake about this news.

You see being ignorant and arrogant gets you nowhere, twitting all that BS will get you nowhere.  If I was him I would just STFU and be quiet but he can't even though the more he opens his mouth or start twitting he keep digging the hole deeper.  It's sad but funny at the same time SMH  facepalm 

Flipping should be illegal  Shocked  He just got Pecked by the Pecker this man has a lifetime of **** he's about to let loose, are you hearing this a lifetime worth and now his CEO of the foundation about to spill the beans.  

See many of you thought this cramp was cute and funny and forgot about politics and diplomacy.  Nope you wanted reality tv so now you're getting it. You were all played so desperate to believe anything just to turn on the status quo blah blah norm.  We all were tired of the norm but damn if taking a flying leap into insanity should have been an option.  

I'm crying and laughing this is again both tragically sad  Sad and funny as hell lol .   I can't believe some of you let this man insult your intelligence with the dumb **** he say's  facepalm 

Okay back to sports
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Good For Blake

Post  WTF on Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:58 pm

Glad to see Blake took his own initiative to seek therapy and not have the false illusion that it's a perceived weakness when it's a strength to recognize when external help is required. 

Sound as if this something sought prior but I still think that as an organization therapy should be something mandated.
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You're delusional if you do

Post  deusXango on Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:30 am

As we near the start of training camp there's some things that vex me about this team.
1. It's loaded with perimeter players, albeit, none of which is a difference maker at SF or PG. It seems we could've got one.
2. We still talk about how important Reggie Jackson is to this team, like he's Kyrie, Wall, Lilliard, or a championship level PG.
3. The true problem with Jon Leuer is being completely overlooked; his drawback is not physical but, mental! We need him?!
4. We've made Glenn Robinson lll out to be some sort of potential savior simply because he played for the Wolverines. Not so.
5. Henry Ellenson simply can't be the scapegoat for faulty decision making; not developing Brown and Thomas will be a mistake.

If our roster is loaded with perimeter players it seems that would be the strength of the team; we've got an abundance of shooters, scorers, and defenders in those guys and with the current COTY, making adjustments based game recognition shouldn't be a problem. Gamble some in pushing the right buttons.

Did Stefanski, really go hard after players like CJ McCollum, Terry Rozier, to replace Reggie Jackson, or are we still stuck on turning a sows ear into a silk purse? If there's endless excuses for not trading RJ, why the phuque are we penciling him in at such a prominent position? Seems like we're giving up before we get started.

Strange how the media remembers that blip on the teams radar, we so fondly refer to as "our return to the playoffs," but have convenient amnesia when it comes to recalling that without injury or pressing personal problems Leuer's game suddenly went into the toilet. Damn I miss Tolliver, almost as much as Harris/Morris.

Coach Casey is determined to make something of Stanley Johnson, which is okay with me, and GR lll is an essential part of that late career blooming and nothing more...on this roster he'll become an important rotational piece, as will Thomas, Brown, and Kennard. Hopefully Casey will play the talent over the contracts.

This team, if blessed with good health and open-minded coaching, can make a surprising turnaround this year and form a "family" type chemistry all that's required from the fan base is patience. I think we've got more going for us than against us.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:47 pm

WTF wrote:Now Mental Health that makes sense now this is a nice article about Morris.   Funny how some immediately attacked Morris like they knew him personally and was there when certain incidents occurred.   

I won't say names but they had super powers to read into the perceived actions of a person and it's real news but then they can see some things with the own ears and eyes and fake news. Now that's some funny crazy **** right there  tb 

I liked Morris and wish he was still on this team he definitely had Pistons DNA and it's too bad that unlike in Boston that this organization doesn't participate in Mental Health Awareness of it's players.  Personally I think it should be something that's mandatory for all players and organization to participate in every season.    

Too sign a deal under false pretenses (Phoenix) then traded off to another team (Detroit) right after and then sent to a 3rd team (Boston).  I just glad Boston had something in place to get him some help.  

Lord knows half of this current group of Pistons seem to be in need of some kind of therapy as well, owner included but then I'm just speculating.  I probably need to acquire some advance analytics first and not just use the eye test.

Excellent post WTF. It was frustrating watching the Pistons play as a fan at least for me two seasons ago. The owner decided his team leaders would be Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson and the politically correct head coach backed whatever the mis guided owner wanted for his spoiled pet players. those two players were all that mattered to this owner. Coach make them happy. Opps then the big injury happened yet RJ never lost his role as co team leader. Two men who had never had any leadership DNA could make any player go mad. One would lead by showing off dancing moves before all home games even if his team had been blown out the night before. Would Zeke or Laimbeer stand for that? But the fans who love stats continued to hope for something that was not to be. Harris, Morris, Johnson and the rest carried on after the players only meeting knowing they had been betrayed by the owner and head coach. There will be no more players only meetings allowed. You scum players keep your mouths shut and submit to more dysfunction. This owner had two big contracts involving AD and RJ so the rest of you scum play your supporting role. How many of the supporting cast were praying to God for a trade that would send them away from the Motor City? My guess is every player who didn't have the name Andre Drummond or Reggie Jackson. The greatest thing that happened in the career of Marcus Morris was being traded to Boston.

For some odd reason the Pistons have been cursed. Piston management including Joe Dumars somehow have backed the wrong horses for far too long. Making the killer trade involving Billups for Iverson. Trading away Knight and Middleton for Brandon Jennings a player much like Reggie Jackson where their previous team (Bucks and Thunder) would have given them away at any cost because they created bad team chemistry is mind boggling. How many times do teams trade away players like Tobias Harris who is young and has high character. How many times do teams pass on a sure thing at point guard when your weakest position is point guard (Mitchell)? I just feel for all the players who had nothing to do with basic team dysfunction. When your starting center declares that he will not allow the newly hired shooting coach to help him or refuses to learn the basic defensive rotation system after three years of being with one coach yet racked up big time stats for his own personal glorification chemistry issues will arise. When you have a starting center who refuses to give an honest effort on defense or is incapable of playing average NBA defense and often shuts off certain players from the offense favoring one or two players all the time, then there will be dysfunction. Point guards can help or ruin careers for young players by either playing the right way and finding the open player or freezing them out of the offense. Anyone who has watched Reggie Jackson since he arrived could not miss seeing him do that to several players who played on the wings. The players only meeting was held because Reggie Jackson's teammates had had enough excluding Andre Drummond of course because Reggie got AD the ball.

The Detroit Pistons continue to be nothing more than an soap opera and this owner should offer to pay for mental health assistance for those players who have suffered though the past two seasons of hell. None of the players who played or watched the Miami game from the bench will ever forget the end of the game where Whiteside jumped over AD to get the winning tip in because AD did not box him out. Zeke made a bad pass at the end of a playoff game against Boston that cost his team the game. It almost killed him and he still talks about it to this day. And Isiah Thomas came back with something extra the following two seasons where the Pistons won championships. After the season ended when AD made his critical mistake Andre stated to the press that he and his teammates needed "rest". AD was tired. And sure enough when the men separate themselves from the weak minded boys in the months of January, February and March, AD came out with a few new dance steps for pre game never providing his team with what they most needed - paint protection and shot blocking. But with the Pistons is is not what you know or due, it is who you know and who favors you.

This season no fault will lie with either RJ or AD. Jon Leuer will take the blame.

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Just Some Stuff

Post  WTF on Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:42 pm

Now Mental Health that makes sense now this is a nice article about Morris.   Funny how some immediately attacked Morris like they knew him personally and was there when certain incidents occurred.   

I won't say names but they had super powers to read into the perceived actions of a person and it's real news but then they can see some things with the own ears and eyes and fake news. Now that's some funny crazy **** right there  tb 

I liked Morris and wish he was still on this team he definitely had Pistons DNA and it's too bad that unlike in Boston that this organization doesn't participate in Mental Health Awareness of it's players.  Personally I think it should be something that's mandatory for all players and organization to participate in every season.    

Too sign a deal under false pretenses (Phoenix) then traded off to another team (Detroit) right after and then sent to a 3rd team (Boston).  I just glad Boston had something in place to get him some help.  

Lord knows half of this current group of Pistons seem to be in need of some kind of therapy as well, owner included but then I'm just speculating.  I probably need to acquire some advance analytics first and not just use the eye test.
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What's Your Favorite Number

Post  WTF on Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:22 pm

The only thing I'm believing in are W's and I mean good hard earned, hard fought for W's.   All the pre season build up about a team that failed to make the playoffs the past 2 seasons is all fluff. 

Take no offense but those that subscribe to all the analytical BS typically buy into all the false fabricated analysis that the numbers provide.  I don't care what the number are fudged to project the eye test is squarely set and focus on the W/L column.    So these fluff articles are designed to sell and guess what? Many of you are buying.

Try relying on the eye test, then looking at the tangible data before looking at simple numbers made to look complicated and important.   Some of you take this stuff far too serious.  The only number you should be breaking down is wins and loses so these qt by qt breakdowns of players is irrelevant unless it's the last qt like what hell that player did to help win or lose a game.   

Stats and analytics only feed into the over active imaginations of some and I all the could, would, and should of all the imaginary if's resting their heads.
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Re: FORUM

Post  Oracle on Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:46 pm

Murph wrote:I have no idea why the Pistons hamstrung themselves by not resigning Toliver.  They decided to keep Leuer and Ellenson to back up Griffin.  But Leuer has a history of injury, and Ellenson is terrible.  And Griffin's minutes should be kept down.  The reserve forward spot represents a real dilemma entering the season, and it didn't have to be.  All the Pistons had to do was bring back Toliver, who would have gladly re-signed.

And in my opinion, it wasn't a choice between Moreland or Zaza.  It's not at all unusual for a team to carry 3 center.  I would have taken both Moreland and Zaza to back up Drummond.  Moreland and Zaza are two very different players, but both are excellent defensively.  Depending on the matchup, both could have played effectively. Totally agree with this, which plays into my concern about defense. With Bradley & Stanley, Moreland & Tolliver, we had very good perimeter and interior defense. Basically all of that is gone, and while Leuer is better than Ellenson defensively, that isn't saying much.

BTW, Leuer's injury history is recent, his first bout of bad news, so I have hope that it isn't the chronic kind that Bradley had. I also believe that Reggie didn't get the recovery time he got in OKC because he rode the bench so much, and he may be good to go. Blake has said this year will be his first in a long time of being healthy to start a season, before he was gimpy from jump street.


More good news on Marcus Morris.  He considered quitting basketball when he was traded to the Pistons, and he smoked dope to deal with his anxiety about being a Piston.   smoke And we thought we had a hard time dealing with SVG  lol lol lol I'm surprised that a few doobies were strong enough to deal with the situation  Smile


Ok Oracle....she can stay.  tb Oh happy day, but I want those bad hombres gone ASAP  lol lol lol
Murph, you may be a Trump voter, but you're an intelligent one. I don't like it or him, but I can respect you.
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Toliver and Moreland

Post  Murph on Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:51 pm

I have no idea why the Pistons hamstrung themselves by not resigning Toliver.  They decided to keep Leuer and Ellenson to back up Griffin.  But Leuer has a history of injury, and Ellenson is terrible.  And Griffin's minutes should be kept down.  The reserve forward spot represents a real dilemma entering the season, and it didn't have to be.  All the Pistons had to do was bring back Toliver, who would have gladly re-signed.

And in my opinion, it wasn't a choice between Moreland or Zaza.  It's not at all unusual for a team to carry 3 center.  I would have taken both Moreland and Zaza to back up Drummond.  Moreland and Zaza are two very different players, but both are excellent defensively.  Depending on the matchup, both could have played effectively.



More good news on Marcus Morris.  He considered quitting basketball when he was traded to the Pistons, and he smoked dope to deal with his anxiety about being a Piston.   smoke



Ok Oracle....she can stay.  tb
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Murph: Let's not deport the HOT Ones, LOL!

Post  Oracle on Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:29 am

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Sparma & Defense

Post  Oracle on Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:24 am

@Sparma 1: You said, "The gamble's failed now though, due to a very foreseeable Leuer injury problem."

I don't know why you call that foreseeable, unless you believe once someone is injured that they stay injured. Leuer doesn't have the history of being injured like Bradley does, and it never seemed to enter your(or others) mind that he would foreseeably be injured.

Then by definition, you would also believe that Reggie & Griffin will both be injured this coming season as well, so your prediction would likely be somewhere in the 20's. I hope I'm mistaken about this line of thinking, because it will certainly spell doom.

@Sparma 2: I took a look at the Ish article, and found it to be one of the worst I've read in a long time, I'm shocked that you thought it made any sense.

While you admit plus/minus isn't perfect, at the same time you use it to come to some sweeping conclusions. Then after coming to those conclusions, you use that faulty info to extrapolate even further out on a limb.

Ish has trouble working against a set defense? How could you fall into that trap? Ish is a master against a set defense, he can get to any spot on the floor at any time he wishes, he eats set defenses for lunch. A more logical reason for his plus/minus with starters is that he's asked to do something totally different with that group than with the bench.

When Reggie went down and he started the season, he had no such trouble as we were ripping the league a new arse hole, even on the road. Plus/minus is heavily related to your role and who you're playing with. If you can't factor those things in, that's a stat to leave alone.

Lastly, Ish's defense is better than Reggie's. Yes he's not good if a team ISO's him because of his size, but his help defense is excellent and he's always hawking the passing lanes... speaking of defense.

Where will our defense come from: I do have a concern about our defense. We've had the luxury of having one very good defender in KCP and one great defender in Bradley, and abusing them both for as many minutes as possible.

This year we don't have anyone in either of those guys category! In short, we don't have a guy that can play 38-42 minutes of ball every game and produce plus level defense on this team anymore. The closest player is Stanley, and I fear that if he had to play that many minutes, every other phase of his already shaky game would suffer.

I'm a big believer that defense is a team game, and SVG made a big mistake making it about individuals, so I'm hoping for some Flip Saunders type of defensive schemes to make up for our lack of good defenders.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:13 pm

Sparma wrote:I was ok with ZaZa replacing Moreland.  I think it's Don who's really pleaded for Moreland to stay on.  Moreland has earned a spot in the league.  But if the team's going all out for winning what they can this year the canny ZaZa likely gives them a better chance to do so, even though Moreland's better defensively.

The one I would have pleaded for was retaining Tolliver, especially for 5 mil.  Didn't he get 9 mil from Sac in that super rich TV contract year.  The Pistons couldn't have paid at that level, but they could have managed 5 mil.

Did Glenn Robinson get 3.7?  It seems that resigning Tolliver would essentially have meant you couldn't sign him.  I'm hoping for good things from Robinson, but Tolliver's a wily, energetic, enthusiastic player who is also a leader, maybe in part because of those qualities.  

I understand the Pistons going the way they did because resigning Tolliver would have left them really thin at SF.  But a healthy Reggie B has it in him to be average; I've give him all the minutes he could handle, unless he got overmatched due to size.

I'm afraid the thinking went something like: we've got this guy we signed for 10 mil who looked pretty good at first in Detroit.  Couldn't he step in, while we shore up SF because we don't really trust Stanley, even though we're hoping for his best year?

The gamble's failed now though, due to a very foreseeable Leuer injury problem.

Murph wrote:I agree.  Toliver and Moreland will both be missed.  But I’m not sure who the should have replaced.  With the play of Brown in summer league, Calderon looks like a luxury, and could have been replaced on the roster with Toliver.  

But who should Moreland have replaced?  Maybe Ellenson. Maybe Ellenson should have been cut for Moreland.  

Sparma it seems that the owner as well as Casey has no idea what went on with the Pistons last season. ZaZa is not a good replacement for Moreland and I will tell you why. Eric was a high octane much like Dennis Rodman was in his rookie season. Players in the 2nd unit loved playing with Moreland because he would help teammates in the paint when they got beat off the dribble. There was a noticeable difference between help defense, running the floor all out to bust up transition plays by opponents as well as his ability to switch and just know what he was doing within the defensive rotation system installed by SVG. AD was not good relating to transition defense and he is not a help type of defensive center. AD also was late often in the rotation system and never did figure things out last season. So the team got a lift when Moreland came into the game and when AD came back in after watching the supreme effort Moreland gave, would actually play harder on D. Sparma team chemistry determines a lot between winning and losing and everyone on the Piston team respected and enjoyed playing with Eric Moreland. Now the Pistons have another slow moving center in transition so how can the Pistons shake things up when the defense is flat throughout the first quarter. That happened a lot last season. The starters would get behind in the first and 3rd quarters and the 2nd unit created a change of tempo and got the Pistons back into a lot of games. For Casey or Tom Gores to not know the contribution of Moreland shows me a lot about the Pistons. It is still the blind leading the blind.

If I had to pick one player and cross off another relating to keeping Moreland or Tolliver, then I would agree with you and keep Tolliver. This is just another brain fart by the owner, the new management team and the owner. Tom Gores has the Pistons boxed in because he was the guy who was the main player in moving Tobias and Avery for Blake Griffin's insane contract. Piston fans only chance of hope is if Tom Gores sells the team. Even with the bogus trade as you pointed out, the Pistons could have signed Tolliver. Many of us fans believe Anthony Tolliver was the best player overall on the entire team last season. He was the glue guy and the man who helped the rookies and 2nd year players a lot along with Avery Johnson before he was traded. My point is that both Moreland and Tolliver were perhaps the most popular players and the two players who provided this team with better team chemistry than they had the previous season. Now this team will start over with no leaders much like 2 years ago. The center position will be a liability relating to lack of paint protection. It will be up to Blake Griffin to play his ass off on defense and he cannot do it alone. Who do the Pistons have now to get back in transition and offer shot blocking and paint protection. AD's focus is on offense again and his new weapon, the 3 point shot. Nothing has changed.

The Pistons have no identity and do not have the right stuff to complete with the big boys who always dominate them. Don't get me wrong, I would be pleasantly surprised if Andre Drummond becomes a serious player and ZaZa actually provides some effort on the defensive end. No team wins if they have players who can't or will not play solid defense. The Pistons have two starters in AD and RJ who are known throughout the league as slackers on defense. There is no guard on Washington's team that Reggie Jackson can guard. There is no guard that Reggie Jackson can guard on Boston's team. Do I need to name all of the other NBA teams the Pistons will play next season? I just don't know how long time Piston fans can identify with soft players. That is why they have lost so many fans and this owner still doesn't get it. But he is a show business guy who has made a lot of money so fluff is what matters these days with the Pistons. If I were Casey, I would have at least watched some game film from last season and if he can learn anything from game film he would have made it a high priority to keep Tolliver and Moreland. Those guys were my favorite players last season. They provided us with hope.

By the way I was talking to a friend who I highly respect who knows the NBA and he believes that the Pistons passed on Mitchell in the 2017 draft because of Reggie Jackson's contract. The owner, AD didn't want Mitchell to come in and take Reggie's job. It was a simple as that this guy believes and I have to agree with him. SVG signed Smith and also backed Jackson so they all decided to pass on a sure thing for point guard to protect their favorites. The owner has the right to do whatever he wants to do. We fans can do nothing but bitch until we gat tired and stop following this fake team.

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Moreland & Tolliver

Post  Sparma on Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:32 pm

I was ok with ZaZa replacing Moreland. I think it's Don who's really pleaded for Moreland to stay on. Moreland has earned a spot in the league. But if the team's going all out for winning what they can this year the canny ZaZa likely gives them a better chance to do so, even though Moreland's better defensively.

The one I would have pleaded for was retaining Tolliver, especially for 5 mil. Didn't he get 9 mil from Sac in that super rich TV contract year. The Pistons couldn't have paid at that level, but they could have managed 5 mil.

Did Glenn Robinson get 3.7? It seems that resigning Tolliver would essentially have meant you couldn't sign him. I'm hoping for good things from Robinson, but Tolliver's a wily, energetic, enthusiastic player who is also a leader, maybe in part because of those qualities.

I understand the Pistons going the way they did because resigning Tolliver would have left them really thin at SF. But a healthy Reggie B has it in him to be average; I've give him all the minutes he could handle, unless he got overmatched due to size.

I'm afraid the thinking went something like: we've got this guy we signed for 10 mil who looked pretty good at first in Detroit. Couldn't he step in, while we shore up SF because we don't really trust Stanley, even though we're hoping for his best year?

The gamble's failed now though, due to a very foreseeable Leuer injury problem.

Murph wrote:I agree.  Toliver and Moreland will both be missed.  But I’m not sure who the should have replaced.  With the play of Brown in summer league, Calderon looks like a luxury, and could have been replaced on the roster with Toliver.  

But who should Moreland have replaced?  Maybe Ellenson. Maybe Ellenson should have been cut for Moreland.  
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Toliver and Moreland

Post  Murph on Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:40 am

I agree. Toliver and Moreland will both be missed. But I’m not sure who the should have replaced. With the play of Brown in summer league, Calderon looks like a luxury, and could have been replaced on the roster with Toliver.

But who should Moreland have replaced? Maybe Ellenson. Maybe Ellenson should have been cut for Moreland.
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Ish & PF

Post  Sparma on Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:57 pm

Really good piece about Ish at mlive. A set of reported stats that jumped out at me: "[Ish] [w]as a minus-3 while averaging 29.7 minutes as a starter and a plus-4.6 while averaging 21.3 minutes off the bench. ... " Plus/ minus can be misleading, but this confirms my impression that he's a valuable contributor as a change of pace bench guy, but that he falters in a lead role, essentially because he's got trouble directing against a set D and because his own D gets exposed. The article brought out that his distance shooting improved as the season progress.

Concerning big forward minutes, I think much of the attention is due less to Leuer himself than to the Pistons going out on a branch in not resigning Tolliver, thinking they had an adequate replacement in Leuer. And that might have been true even with an average Leuer , apart from him hardly replacing AT as leader, until the injury bug hit once again. Tolliver signed for 5 mil, one year, with Minny, so it seems they could have gotten it done, had they passed up on Glenn Robinson (that's what I would have preferred). Now they're up a creek behind Blake.

Stanley with some minutes at PF? Why not. It might cut into his awful decision making as shooter, and encourage him to go for baskets in close. His energy would be welcome, and I think he could often hold his own for a stretch against many PFs. That said, I do remember him getting eaten up defensively against Porzingis early in the season, until Tolliver stepped in to restore order. So it seems like a stop gap measure.
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I'm David Ruffin and these are the Temptations...

Post  Oracle on Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:50 pm

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Don: Leuer

Post  Oracle on Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:20 pm

I hope all of this positive press for Leuer gets his arse traded somewhere, but I doubt it. I'm hoping that we get some mileage out of him before the glue factory claims him off of waivers!

However, it's hard to take you critique of anybody seriously anymore when you make statements like this.

"Character does matter in everything including playing NBA basketball. Can Zeke make a comeback?" - Don

You can hope for a lot of stuff with Trump, you can even pretend to like his policies as a reason you voted for him, but there is no person with half a brain that will claim that Trump is a person of good or high character.

So really, just how important is character to you? You don't give two craps about character if you voted for and supports Trump to be the leader of the free world, yet it comes up all the time with you about players playing a game that has ZERO impact on the daily lives of Americans or the world... give me a freaking break!
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Piston management is hard at work promoting Jon Leuer. How much is the Piston's owner paying for good press on Leuer?

Post  cool breeze on Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:51 pm

I don't think that I have ever seen this type of thing before relating to NBA team's promoting a player who couldn't impress anyone two seasons ago when healthy playing either power forward or center. In his entire NBA career, leuer has never generated much press and Leuer was seldom mentioned by reporters when he played on a good team at Wisconsin. So why are we continually reading about Leuer's recovery and projected date when he will be ready to play after his recent knee surgery? Do the experts believe that now that the knee surgery is out of the way he will play better then he did when he was two years younger and completely healthy? Is this owner banking on a complete transformation of Jon Leuer from a guy trying to win playing time unsuccessfully to a super star? And at what position will he make this big splash? Are the Pistons worried about how weak their team strength is at power forward and center relating to back ups for starters at those positions. Can Henry step up and get a lock on either back up center or power forward? Will Stanley Johnson end up playing some power forward? Not a bad idea when looking at some of the players this new coach as selected. I wish the best luck for Jon Leuer but it seems like he will be under the microscope now that the press has made such a big deal about his return. $10 million dollar contract players must be featured or the owner looks like a complete fool. No chance of Leuer agreeing to a buy out. But that should be discussed by Piston management. There is no chance in hell that Leuer can be traded. His contract is in the same boat as the Reggie Jackson contract.

Why in hell did this owner let Moreland go? Didn't he watch at least one game last season? Moreland was a critical part of the 2nd unit with his high energy on defense and the way he ran the court. The Pistons do not have that type of player at back up center this year. One has to wonder about Casey. Didn't he watch any game film?

I look for the Pistons to repeat their current history of folding after Christmas with a new set of injuries or lack of ability by the highest paid players. Actually I will be pleasantly shocked if that doesn't happen again knowing that Andre Drummond is still on the team. He has been the slacker in the months of December, January and Feb and into March. Maybe he is more mature now and will want to show he can be counted on before he negotiates his new contract. Sorry for the negative comments but there has been too many disappointing moments for me to trust in some of the core players. Character does matter in everything including playing NBA basketball. Can Zeke make a comeback?

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Lions vs Giants game

Post  cool breeze on Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:09 pm

This is the 2nd pre season game where the Lions looked like the worst team in the NFL at times. The announcers were outstanding and the interview with the Lions GM was great but that was about the only positive thing that I could take away from the game. If any of you attended the game, I would like your thoughts. The left side of the defensive line including the linebackers made the same mistake three or four times allowing touchdown runs. You get benched for taking fakes and failing to hold your outside position in high school. Are the Lions suffering from the same defect as the Pistons - low football IQ? The Lion offense sucked as well especially when Safford was playing in the first half. I like Rudock, Powell. Zenner only got a few minutes at the end of the game but looked like the best quarterback on the team. Zenner was a great college quarterback who was always known as an extremely high IQ player. He moved the Lions down the field unlike at any time in the game. I love his footwork. Wish he could make the team but it is unlikely. In Safford's defense, the starting offensive line provided him with zero protection. Looks like the same problems still exist from last season. Below average offensive line and a soft low IQ defense.

The losing is not going to last. The current management team and head coach will finally change the culture relating to the Detroit Lions.


Last edited by cool breeze on Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:19 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : mistake made relating to Lions quarterback that was responsible for the last drive for a TD was Jake Rudock. Both Rudock and Zenner are high IQ players and I love the way Zenner moves.)

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FEAR

Post  WTF on Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:46 pm

What are American values?  Do it include all races, religions and classes?   We have always been a divided country and something has to give but I'm afraid there be no winners in the end.   

I see things a lot clearer where there was a time I thought things could be fixed I see now that it can't.   The scorning of kneeling of NFL players has nothing to do with the Flag and Vets just that fear,  the guns has nothing to do with the right to bare arms it's the fear,  the killings of unarmed black men again it's the fear but created the very things they're fearing and it's that debt.  

Even with the false illusions of bein a super power we're not if Russia is tampering with our elections and playing with our power grids.  They have already figured it out just let America destroy itself.  This is Fake News  facepalm 

There was a time being young that you dreamed of growing old retiring from one company nice house with the picked fence, nowadays those dream are when are we going to Purge and play the Hunger Game or be the 100.   They don't think they'll grow old and sadly they might be right.   

Mexican aren't raping,  there's no terrorist threats just school shootings, club shootings, church shootings, park shootings and police shootings all done by legal American Citizens but a wall is needed.   Yeah a wall need to build around these places instead to protect the  people that's in them.  But that fear keeps them from doing the right things we can't control guns we need our guns.
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Wise & Murph

Post  Oracle on Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:22 pm

@Wise: It's fear as well, but the root of it is genetics, most Europeans from Europe proper, don't have a clue as to what they are. However, what you say is true! It's like building up a high debt, even if you don't pay it off in your lifetime, that debt is passed on to your children and grandchildren, and the debt will eventually be paid in some form or another.

Western civilization looks at history as a linear process, i.e., they believe that you start out ignorant with no civilization and progress on a straight line to an advanced civilization. In fact, history is more cyclical, like everything else in the universe. Civilizations rise and fall, we go from advanced, back to primitive(or close to it), and have done so many times in the past.

This belief allows them to believe that they won't ever be a weak America and that they'll always be on top... in short they look at history and ignore it, but unfortunately, history won't ignore them.

@Murph: I agree that the Dems have gotten way too liberal, it's a reaction to the republicans getting way to conservative. 

However, it's just like Trumps comment about blame on all sides. If one side is focused on anti-american hate, and the other is defending american values, that vision is more than blurred.

Same thing here, while I'm surprised about the polls you posted, and thanks for posting that, I tweeted it today. 

The dems are focused on race, just like the republicans, but the reasons are radically different. Dems seek justice, repubs seek status quo. There's no excuse to keep cheating, never was. If you can't compete and win, you're supposed to lose. Inferior people have to cheat, the superior don't need to.
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Quck Question

Post  Murph on Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:46 am

WTF wrote:
I agree as well that it's coming to a point of violence and a point of no return.  This is not going to end well...… I don't think it's genetics I think it's fear and that the chickens have finally come home to roost.   The sins in which this country was built upon will eventually have to be paid.   My goodness it (this land) was stolen and it's people murdered and wiped out.   It was built upon the back of slavery and infested with evil.   It's a Reckoning it's Prophecy  it's only Fear that's in the way of reasoning.

That's a pretty apocalyptic religious view of what's happening to the country.


On a more mundane note, if Trump is such a racist, how do you account for his 41% support among blacks in the latest Quinnipiac poll (liberal), and his 36% support among African Americans is the latest Rasmussen poll (conservative)?

I might venture a guess that the reason Trumps numbers are way up among minorities is the booming economy and job market that is benefiting everyone, not just the wealthy.

If Trump triples his support among African Americans in the next election, from an abysmal 9% of the vote in 2016, or even just doubles his support among minorities, it's game over for the Dems.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/18/politics/poll-of-the-week-trump-black-voters/index.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/08/16/trump-approval-rating-african-americans-rasmussen-poll/1013212002/

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Oh Brother

Post  WTF on Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:34 am

Murph wrote:
WTF wrote:
No matter how much truth about Trump is brought to the table some of you just will not accept it for what it really is.   Not matter how many racist comment actions and overtones he makes you'll deny it.  No matter how much it looks like collusion it fake news even though it been admitted by Jr and others, no matter how many people face potential charges or arrested and summons.

My guess that Donald was right he can kill someone and many of you wouldn't care.   But I think I got this all figured out but I won't touch on it not now at least.  It just sad though.

Truth coming to the table?  Mueller has been investigating Trump for almost 18 months, with an unlimited budget.  He's spent something like $25 million and has found zero collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign.  

To date, the only thing Mueller has done is charge Paul Manafort, who worked for the Trump campaign all of two months, with income tax evasion from 2005, long before Trump ran for office.

Yet media has been covering the Russian collusion story with breathless anticipation, as if Trump is obviously guilty...of something.  If only he could be investigated forever, surely they will find something.   scratch

After this ridiculous dog and pony show, I don't believe anything the far left media (CNN, NBC, MSNBC, NY Times, Washington Post), and the far left accuses Trump of doing, and that includes Trump being a racist.  And that will also include impeachment proceeding, if the Dems win the House in 2018.




The Democrats as a party have moved so far left, I don't even recognize them anymore.  They are not the party I grew up with.  The have become self proclaimed socialists, obsessed with race and class warfare.  Their policies no longer benefit the vast American middle class.  Trump is now occupying the political center that the Democrats have vacated.

Look, the bottom line is the Democrats are going to have to run someone a lot better than Hillary Clinton...or Cam Harris or Liz Warren or Bernie Sanders or Joe Biden for me not to vote for Trump in 2020.

Wasn't looking for comments or rebuttal from a Trump Supporter
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It's Been Written

Post  WTF on Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:08 am

Oracle wrote:You can't fix genetics.

The difference between the Trump base and progressives/liberals/dems is in the brain. There are many studies that show that the brains of the opposing groups works differently.

I posted to see where the thought processes were, and I think that's clear. There is no solution, no reasoning to be done, nothing can bring the sides together because neither side will see what the other does.

Wise, I used to talk to people about climate change, nothing would sink in. Not my arguments to them or theirs to me.

If two people look at the same set of facts and see totally different things, there is no reality. They're ships passing in the night, completely oblivious to each other and only sharing the mode of transportation.

Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. Where the laws do not operate, there is no reality. The illusion of this being one cohesive country is not real, and the faster we recognize this, the better everyone will be in the long run.

The Trump view is in the very small minority in the world and here as well, but the numbers are closer.

There's a clear reason the base of Trump's party sees things differently from the rest of the world, and it lies in what I led off with... Genetics. You can't change something that deep, and that's why I fully support splitting the country up before this turns violent, and it's getting there.

So what's my bottom line? Let's leave this alone, we have all of the clarity we're going to get.

I agree as well that it's coming to a point of violence and a point of no return.  This is not going to end well...… I don't think it's genetics I think it's fear and that the chickens have finally come home to roost.   The sins in which this country was built upon will eventually have to be paid.   My goodness it (this land) was stolen and it's people murdered and wiped out.   It was built upon the back of slavery and infested with evil.   It's a Reckoning it's Prophecy  it's only Fear that's in the way of reasoning.
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