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I Smell A Trade?

Post  BallinD on Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:00 am

Can't see them trading Bullock, the team's best shooter, especially with the Blake Window and the Luke passivity and
acclimation project underway.  That would be giving up on the season unless we get a really good wing back.Austin Rivers and Jabari Parker could be interesting role players, but Parker is allergic to Defense and Austin Rivers may be more of a head case than Weggie, and yes that's possible.

Stuck between a rock and that hard place

I could see an Ish trade, because he is somewhat expendable due to Calderone's successful bobbing and weaving with old man time.  Boy, I wonder where we would be if we had never let him go, with his heady play and feel for the game.  Unless Luke attacks his passivity on a consistent basis, or Gallows plays his way toward a trade, we may be sunk.

Casey is showing he needs an offensive coordinator (where is Nick Nurse?) cause he is looking like SVG 2.0 in his simplistic offensive schemes and stubborness about using Weggie off the ball so much.  I get that he doesn't trust him, and neither do I but he's not a spot-up shooter,  and Blake needs playmaking help that Weggie cannot be trusted to provide.  There's that damn rock again.  And team chemistry issues could begin to surface if we continue to rip off long losing streaks without any coaching adjustments to the core issue of Blake Point Forward, being smashed by aggressive defensive adjustments by opponents, much like last year when they sniffed out the Dre dribble hand offs after the first quarter of the season.

I would jettison Ish and Gallows if possible and keep Bullock and SJ, and keep our FRP as well.  Leuer might also be playing his way into a trade.  But despite the desparate need for a trade, it's not looking like Casey is quick enough on his feet (nimble minded) to take advantage of it, though he is getting a lot right, his offense sucks, as advertised.

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Trade Talk

Post  Phil1980boy on Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:51 am

WOW... Decisions... Decisions....

You got Reggie Bullock balling out of control. And the NBA is built for player like Bullock. 3 and D wings who can really shoot the basketball. Bullock will get 10 million from somebody next summer.


I wonder what this new management group will decide to do. I know this, If you trade away your best shooter for scraps, Blake will not be happy.



Van Gundy continues to F.U.C.K the Pistons from his couch.


Hey Gores. CRACK OPEN THAT CHECK BOOK MR Platinum investments man....

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Resolution?

Post  Sparma on Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:14 pm

I think there's a good chance the potential Reggie B & Stanley conundrum will be resolved by trading Reggie B, likely not for a great return given his expiring contract.

We've discussed the Reggie B & Ish & a 2nd for Fultz rumors. What I gathered is that the 76ers ultimately were looking for a high 1st in return, so turned down the Pistons' offer. I understand the mixed reactions to that trade possibility (I'm not such a Fultz fan, also since reading up on his situation more), but clearly it would be a face saver for the Pistons. Likely they'll end up giving up their best shooter for a far less dramatic return.

If they do trade Reggie B, say for an expiring and a 2nd, then, Don, yes they could sign Stanley unless some team offers him something crazy (seems unlikely).

It makes me sick that a team in desperate need of distance shooting likely will give up their best shooter for a scant return. (Rod Beard also weighs in on a Reggie B trade at detnews). Credit to SVG for an outstanding trade to bring in Reggie B. That said, the team needs to clean up his budget mismanagement (Leuer, Galloway, and, yes, even Boban, and maybe Ish too), his eagerness to improve in a hurry by overpaying for decent NBA players. Part of the bill for SVG's mismanagement's likely coming up in the form of not being able to hold on to your best shooter, but needing to trade him to manage cap trouble.

I've said I like a lot of the players, but oh this team, this organization, is rough to root for.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:56 pm

Murph wrote:Don...as I understand it, Johnson will be a restricted free agent at the end of this season.  That means the Pistons can let him walk away, or make him a qualifying offer of $5.3 million for 1 year.

Once the Pistons make him the qualifying offer, Johnson has two options.  He can sign the offer, and return to the Pistons for 1 year at $5.3 million, and then become an unrestricted free agent at the end of next season.

Or Johnson can seek a longer term contract with another team as a restricted free agent.  If Johnson finds a team willing to make him a multi-year offer, then the Pistons have the right to match that offer, or let him walk away.

But one way or the other, the way Johnson is playing this year, I can almost guarantee he will be back next year, either for 1 year at $5.3 million or for longer, if the Pistons match a long term offer by another team.

I just looked again at the current status of the Piston payroll and couldn't find where Johnson is a restricted free agent. The Pistons exercised their team option on Johnson on 10/15/17 for the 2018-2019 season. I do not see anything showing he is a restricted free agent. He is listed the same as Reggie Bullock. Johnson signed his rookie contract in 2015. Damn I hope you are correct because I had lost all hope of Johnson returning. Usually the press is on stuff like this especially when first round rookie contracts are expiring. That means to me that the Piston front office is not talking about the future of Stanley Johnson to the press. Silence usually means something. What is it? And can the Pistons afford to pay Johnson the money you are writing suggesting? They have 4 insane contracts with all returning next season in BG, RJ, JL, and LG. The deal for AD had to be made. On Blake's behalf, he is pushing AD and helping to make him a better player which is great. Who can help Blake become a smarter more team orientated player? Blake looked tired and out of sorts last night and was not mentally sharp. But that was just one game out of many and the positive was that our Pistons were in position to win that game. There was no blow out this time against the Bucks.

Reggie Bullock did not play well for several games before he was injured. Something has restored his confidence. Will he continue to surprise us? I have no clue as to how good Reggie really might be. But when his timing is on, his jump shot is really sweet looking. I just wish he played better defense if the Pistons plan to sign him to a longer contract. Play better defense Reggie. Don't be like the other Reggie.

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Reggie B & Stanley

Post  Sparma on Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:55 pm

I don't know, Murph.  You could be right on all counts.

Concerning Stanley I don't think we're far off.  You say: "A better option would be for the Pistons to offer Johnson their own long term deal in the range of 5 years for $45 million."  That averages out to 9 mil per then, for a really long contract.  My guess is that some teams would rather offer 30/33 mil for 3 years.  I was trying to figure out where things would really become uncomfortable for the Pistons; I think it's in that 10, 11, 12 mil, which doesn't sound so different from what you're saying.  (And I read/ heard (Woj?) speak of a possible 8 figure salary for Stanley; that's 10 mil+, right?)

So much depends on the market.  Leuer, a solid NBA rotation guy, was way overpaid when money was flowing freely.

We seem to have a bigger disagreement concerning Reggie B.  Partly, I was just conveying that I value him more highly than Stanley, and that I think other teams will too.  In accord with my recollection, Wikipedia conveys that he re-signed with the Pistons in the summer of 2017.  Didn't he sign a modest two year deal at that point, i.e., when he'd shown he could shoot but hadn't averaged more than 4.5 ppg, as opposed to last year's 11.8 and this year's 11.1. In short, he hadn't broken out when SVG smartly snapped him up. [See P.S. below.] If I follow you, you're remember 2 modest 1 year deals; if you were right about that, that would increase the likelihood of a modest deal moving forward.  

He did have the PED issue (or was that already known before he re-signed and penalized subsequently?), and his health seems a bit shaky.  

I think of him as two dimensional: he's (a) an outstanding shooter (the premium quality sought in the league) and (b) a good runner, with a very good sense of offensive positioning (not used so effectively by our passers, although Calderon found him as cutter last night). I don't see him as a good defender, but I've heard some praise (think Kelser called him our 2nd best wing defender (damning with faint praise; Ellis said something nice about his D too).  I think he's ok on D; seems to have the tools to be quite a bit better there.  For some reason, he's really not much of a passer.

I believe he's headed to a big pay raise. He may still have some proving to do so that teams would resist a long term deal.  Maybe my 12-15 guess is indeed high.  I'm guessing the Pistons would need to offer at least 20 mil for 2 years.  Maybe he'd go to a more appealing destination, like LA, for lower, say 15 mil for 2 years.  

What I'm more confident of than the specific numbers is that it will be hard for the Pistons to make a market (or above market to resist a more attractive location) bid for Reggie B if they also want to resign Stanley.  If I remember correctly, even homer Langlois has intimidated that it may be tough to get both signings done.

We shall see!

PS: Looking up a couple of things on Reggie B's salary: "Reggie Bullock signed a 2 year / $5,000,000 contract with the Detroit Pistons, including $5,000,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $2,500,000. In 2018-19, Bullock will earn a base salary of $2,500,000, while carrying a cap hit of $2,500,000 and a dead cap value of $2,500,000."; [July 2017] "Signed a 2 year $5 million contract with Detroit (DET)" (https://www.spotrac.com/nba/detroit-pistons/reggie-bullock-13338/)

And on a different site (July 2018): "The Pistons have opted to keep Reggie Bullock on their roster through his July 15 salary guarantee deadline, ensuring that his contract for 2018/19 will become guaranteed, writes Rod Beard of The Detroit News.

While Beard classifies the move as Detroit picking up a “team option” on Bullock, the Pistons didn’t actually have to exercise an option to keep the veteran swingman on their roster. The club simply had to keep Bullock under contract – rather than waiving him by Sunday – to guarantee his $2.5MM salary for next season." (https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/07/pistons-guarantee-reggie-bullocks-201819-salary.html)

Murph wrote:Sparma...I could be wrong, but I really doubt if another team will over SJ a multi-year contract at $10-$12 million a year.  I think a more realistic number would be 3 years at $25 million.  If another team offer anything close to that, the Pistons should match, and bring back Johnson for 3 years.  A better option would be for the Pistons to offer Johnson their own long term deal in the range of 5 years for $45 million.

I also doubt Reggie Bullock will command a long term contract in the $12-$15 million range.  I mean RB was an unrestricted FA going into this season, and there was no market at all for him.  Finally, the Pistons agreed to bring him back for 1 year at $2.5 million.  So I would think he might be offered around the same ballpark as SJ's 3 years for $25 million or 5 years for $45 million

That said, I think the Pistons will go young, and look to resign Johnson, and maybe let Bullock go.


Last edited by Sparma on Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:24 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Revisions & added PS)
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Re: FORUM

Post  Murph on Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:39 pm

Sparma...I could be wrong, but I really doubt if another team will over SJ a multi-year contract at $10-$12 million a year. I think a more realistic number would be 3 years at $25 million. If another team offer anything close to that, the Pistons should match, and bring back Johnson for 3 years. A better option would be for the Pistons to offer Johnson their own long term deal in the range of 5 years for $45 million.

I also doubt Reggie Bullock will command a long term contract in the $12-$15 million range. I mean RB was an unrestricted FA going into this season, and there was no market at all for him. Finally, the Pistons agreed to bring him back for 1 year at $2.5 million. So I would think he might be offered around the same ballpark as SJ's 3 years for $25 million or 5 years for $45 million

That said, I think the Pistons will go young, and look to resign Johnson, and maybe let Bullock go.
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Cool/ FA

Post  Sparma on Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:41 pm

The one who can simply walk away when given a better deal is Reggie B, and I expect him to do exactly that, unfortunately.

As I understand Stanley's Restricted Free Agency, the Pistons have a right to match offers, once they make Stanley a qualifying offer, as I expect them to do. Remember that Monroe ended up accepting the Pistons' qualifying offer, and played a season for far less than he could have earned that year. At the end of that year, Monroe was free to go, without strings. By not accepting, tentatively, an offer as a RFA, Monroe kept Detroit from being able to match. Stanley could try to wait it out another year a la Monroe, but that seems really unlikely. I suspect it will come down to whether another team offers Stanley a deal in the 10-12 mil range; if so, Detroit will really need to figure whether it wants to match. They may be tempted to include Stanley in a trade during the season, so as to not need to face that quandary, particularly if they see a way to gather significant resources/ financial space so as to go all out to sign UFA Reggie B (12-15 mil range?).

cool breeze wrote:
Murph wrote:First off, Stanley Johnson will be back next year...guaranteed.  The Pistons will make him a qualifying offer, if not sign him to a new contract.

Second, the play of Johnson is exactly why I like Casey.  Under Casey, Johnson is having his best season by a mile.  Casey has single handedly revived SJ's career in Detroit.

As we have talked about many times, Detroit is not  free agent destination in the NBA.  We need to draft well, and develop our young players.  And we are doing just that.  With 2 mid-second round pics, Stefanski snagged Brown and Thomas.  And Casey is developing Brown by playing him extensive minutes as a rookie.  And you can bet he'll develop Thomas next year.

When was the last time we saw that in Detroit?  You have to go all the way back to John Kuester to find a Pistons coach who played rookies, and I hated Kuester.


"But there was no way this coach has a set of balls. He only punishes the players that make mistakes who are in the last year of their contract like Stanley Johnson. I believe the Pistons would have won several games in that losing streak if Johnson had been played in crunch time and had the full faith of the head coach. Until Johnson arrived in Piston Land, he had always had the full backing of his coaches. They were able to draw out that leadership quality Johnson possesses. He has always been on the winning side of things until he landed in Detroit where coaches put him on a short leash. Last night fans saw the real Stanley Johnson. If he feels part of something then he will shine. If he is on the outside looking in then he will be tentative and fail. If he plays on the floor with Reggie Jackson, Johnson will fail most of the time. If he plays with players like Calderon, Johnson will play his ass off. I am so upset that Piston management will lose this young guy who for sure is going to tear up the NBA eventually. We get him for his rookie contract and that is it."

Murph that would be great news if it were true but Johnson's contract expires at the end of this season. It looks to me that he will be a free man. Is that not true?? What am I missing. I really don't know much about NBA contracts other than knowing the amount and length of the contracts of our current players. Why would Johnson want to return to the Pistons? What type of qualifying offer can the Pistons afford to make? I would think that the Piston's front office would have signed Johnson to a new contract last season if they were serious about keeping him. Watching the games over the last month, I see a pattern with Dwayne Casey relating to using Johnson. He only uses him when he is desperate in my opinion. After teams like the Bucks score layups on almost every possession when Galloway and Jackson are on the floor and the Pistons get way behind, then he brings Johnson in the game. There have been games where Johnson doesn't play much at all in the 2nd half. If Robinson were healthy perhaps Stanley  wouldn't have played last night. There is a pecking order and Johnson is the odd man out of Dwayne's blessings or at least that appears to be the case. Some games Johnson has deserved to sit the bench. That is OK but he should hold the rest of the players to that standard as well. Somehow Casey cannot see anything wrong with Galloway doesn't live under the same rules for sure. The dancing man Reggie Jackson can turn the ball over in crunch time three possessions in a row and he will still be a starter.

The group that has the most promise to me is Brown-Kennard-Johnson- AD & BG. But I can't argue with the decision to start Bullock who has been a different player since he returned from injury. Of course I really like Calderon playing in crunch time as well and he could be a much better starter than Jackson. I see Jackson as about the 8th man in his current state. He cannot defend anyone and when he plays the role of a ball dominate point guard instead of a spot up shooter, he kills the team chemistry. Casey thinks otherwise and has his favorites who have been responsible for many loses so far. As it stands, Johnson is the 8th man and I I were Stanley there would be no way I would want to return next season. He can make more money elsewhere and have a much bigger role.  

Murph I am not getting excited about your take on this. What rights do the Pistons have with Johnson after the last game of this current season?
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Qualifying Offer

Post  Murph on Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:25 pm

Don...as I understand it, Johnson will be a restricted free agent at the end of this season.  That means the Pistons can let him walk away, or make him a qualifying offer of $5.3 million for 1 year.

Once the Pistons make him the qualifying offer, Johnson has two options.  He can sign the offer, and return to the Pistons for 1 year at $5.3 million, and then become an unrestricted free agent at the end of next season.

Or Johnson can seek a longer term contract with another team as a restricted free agent.  If Johnson finds a team willing to make him a multi-year offer, then the Pistons have the right to match that offer, or let him walk away.

But one way or the other, the way Johnson is playing this year, I can almost guarantee he will be back next year, either for 1 year at $5.3 million or for longer, if the Pistons match a long term offer by another team.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:09 pm

Murph wrote:First off, Stanley Johnson will be back next year...guaranteed.  The Pistons will make him a qualifying offer, if not sign him to a new contract.

Second, the play of Johnson is exactly why I like Casey.  Under Casey, Johnson is having his best season by a mile.  Casey has single handedly revived SJ's career in Detroit.

As we have talked about many times, Detroit is not  free agent destination in the NBA.  We need to draft well, and develop our young players.  And we are doing just that.  With 2 mid-second round pics, Stefanski snagged Brown and Thomas.  And Casey is developing Brown by playing him extensive minutes as a rookie.  And you can bet he'll develop Thomas next year.

When was the last time we saw that in Detroit?  You have to go all the way back to John Kuester to find a Pistons coach who played rookies, and I hated Kuester.


"But there was no way this coach has a set of balls. He only punishes the players that make mistakes who are in the last year of their contract like Stanley Johnson. I believe the Pistons would have won several games in that losing streak if Johnson had been played in crunch time and had the full faith of the head coach. Until Johnson arrived in Piston Land, he had always had the full backing of his coaches. They were able to draw out that leadership quality Johnson possesses. He has always been on the winning side of things until he landed in Detroit where coaches put him on a short leash. Last night fans saw the real Stanley Johnson. If he feels part of something then he will shine. If he is on the outside looking in then he will be tentative and fail. If he plays on the floor with Reggie Jackson, Johnson will fail most of the time. If he plays with players like Calderon, Johnson will play his ass off. I am so upset that Piston management will lose this young guy who for sure is going to tear up the NBA eventually. We get him for his rookie contract and that is it."

Murph that would be great news if it were true but Johnson's contract expires at the end of this season. It looks to me that he will be a free man. Is that not true?? What am I missing. I really don't know much about NBA contracts other than knowing the amount and length of the contracts of our current players. Why would Johnson want to return to the Pistons? What type of qualifying offer can the Pistons afford to make? I would think that the Piston's front office would have signed Johnson to a new contract last season if they were serious about keeping him. Watching the games over the last month, I see a pattern with Dwayne Casey relating to using Johnson. He only uses him when he is desperate in my opinion. After teams like the Bucks score layups on almost every possession when Galloway and Jackson are on the floor and the Pistons get way behind, then he brings Johnson in the game. There have been games where Johnson doesn't play much at all in the 2nd half. If Robinson were healthy perhaps Stanley wouldn't have played last night. There is a pecking order and Johnson is the odd man out of Dwayne's blessings or at least that appears to be the case. Some games Johnson has deserved to sit the bench. That is OK but he should hold the rest of the players to that standard as well. Somehow Casey cannot see anything wrong with Galloway doesn't live under the same rules for sure. The dancing man Reggie Jackson can turn the ball over in crunch time three possessions in a row and he will still be a starter.

The group that has the most promise to me is Brown-Kennard-Johnson- AD & BG. But I can't argue with the decision to start Bullock who has been a different player since he returned from injury. Of course I really like Calderon playing in crunch time as well and he could be a much better starter than Jackson. I see Jackson as about the 8th man in his current state. He cannot defend anyone and when he plays the role of a ball dominate point guard instead of a spot up shooter, he kills the team chemistry. Casey thinks otherwise and has his favorites who have been responsible for many loses so far. As it stands, Johnson is the 8th man and I I were Stanley there would be no way I would want to return next season. He can make more money elsewhere and have a much bigger role.

Murph I am not getting excited about your take on this. What rights do the Pistons have with Johnson after the last game of this current season?

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Off Base

Post  Murph on Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:13 pm

First off, Stanley Johnson will be back next year...guaranteed.  The Pistons will make him a qualifying offer, if not sign him to a new contract.

Second, the play of Johnson is exactly why I like Casey.  Under Casey, Johnson is having his best season by a mile.  Casey has single handedly revived SJ's career in Detroit.

As we have talked about many times, Detroit is not  free agent destination in the NBA.  We need to draft well, and develop our young players.  And we are doing just that.  With 2 mid-second round pics, Stefanski snagged Brown and Thomas.  And Casey is developing Brown by playing him extensive minutes as a rookie.  And you can bet he'll develop Thomas next year.

When was the last time we saw that in Detroit?  You have to go all the way back to John Kuester to find a Pistons coach who played rookies, and I hated Kuester.


"But there was no way this coach has a set of balls. He only punishes the players that make mistakes who are in the last year of their contract like Stanley Johnson. I believe the Pistons would have won several games in that losing streak if Johnson had been played in crunch time and had the full faith of the head coach. Until Johnson arrived in Piston Land, he had always had the full backing of his coaches. They were able to draw out that leadership quality Johnson possesses. He has always been on the winning side of things until he landed in Detroit where coaches put him on a short leash. Last night fans saw the real Stanley Johnson. If he feels part of something then he will shine. If he is on the outside looking in then he will be tentative and fail. If he plays on the floor with Reggie Jackson, Johnson will fail most of the time. If he plays with players like Calderon, Johnson will play his ass off. I am so upset that Piston management will lose this young guy who for sure is going to tear up the NBA eventually. We get him for his rookie contract and that is it."
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Last shots

Post  Sparma on Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:33 pm

Blake's about at league average from 3 now at .365, still a hair ahead of Luke at .364.  Apart from Henry, only Reggie B's currently above league average from 3 now.

Blake's been cooling off from 3, hasn't he?  He be lucky to be at league average from distance by season's end.

[P.S. Not so fast, Sparma. Blake's well above the NBA 3% average this year. There's something funny going on with the league numbers. Starting at .350 in 2014-15, the league average steadily rose, reaching 36.2% last season. That's about where I thought the league average was now. In fact, we're sitting at 35% for the season, meaning that Galloway's just a hair off of league average at 34% and Reggie J's within hailing distance at .331. Since 2010-11, the number of attempts rose from 18 shots per game (where it sat (or 18.1) to 31.2 this season. Even within the past five years, shots are up almost 10 shots per team per game, including a major boost this season. I wonder if the dip is just random, or results from more dedicated D of the 3 pt shot (eg with Casey), or comes from the 3 pt strategy being so accepted that even the Stanleys of the league are given licence to hoist up big numbers, bringing the league average down as it's less of a specialists' art. Maybe some of all three? Something to follow as the season unfolds]

We pulled within 3 on a pass by Calderon to Reggie B for a midrange shot, right.  Then followed a shot by Stanley from 3 and two by Griffin from three.

As far as I'm concerned, we've got three above average shooters from distance: Reggie B, Kennard (who's creeping up the charts), and Jose, who's been ice cold from 3 so far this year at .143.  You get three 3 point attempts and none of them go to those shooters?  Granted, Jose's not getting that shot given how he's shooting this year, but then it's got to be either Reggie B or Kennard.  Kennard wasn't even out there, right, with Casey operating on the bogus theory of riding the "hot" hand (a 30% shooter for his career and this season from 3).  And if you are going with the hot hand theory, why not at least give Reggie B one of those last three distance shots?  It's understandable that the star who's putting up superstar numbers gets free rein from the coach, but that's also partly what's wrong with the NBA.  What's your new, much ballyhooed, analytics guy telling you at the end?  (I'm guessing nothing as he doesn't have input there).

A missed opportunity.

And Lemonpen, I didn't hear any discussion during or after the game about the wisdom of those final shots.  Come to think of it, they did cut to a shot of Kennard cheering from the bench at the end, but without commentary.


lemonpen wrote:
cool breeze wrote:
Sparma wrote:If this defeat accelerates the development of Plans B and C, it will have been worth it.

Kudos to Stanley for a great game (not that I want him out there taking nearly the last 3, or Blake for that matter).

I really try to avoid being the guy who blames the best player when the team fails.  Don't think I've done that with Blake this year, but I will tonight, his triple double notwithstanding, or quadruple double if we include his 10 TOs.

Milwaukee did a really nice job of keying on Blake, bringing a second and third helper.  A lot of poking at the ball from behind; he's a great ball handler for a PF, but he's not really a great ball handler, so it was just too much.  Even Kelser repeatedly brought up that he needed to get rid of the ball quicker.

Calderon with the best +/- for the Pistons, which I find to be a significant stat  for once.  I think the comeback had a lot to do with him providing relief for Blake, in addition to Stanley hitting like four 3s in a row.

And I loved it that Casey stuck with him again at the end (no fouling out this time), keeping Reggie J on the bench.  So I'm not celebrating a moral victory, but rather another sign that Casey's diligently exploring an alternative strategy to our Plan A that can only take you so far.

Great post Sparma. The announcers were hyping the triple double Ball Hog Blake managed to get but in fairness they also commented on those turnovers. What I see is that Blake is very predictable. Everyone including the fans can read his mind which makes it pretty easy for opposing teams to defend the Pistons. Blake is the MAN. It is not all his fault though. Piston teammates defer to him and always place the ball in his hands even though two defenders surround Blake at all times. Only Stanley Johnson dared to drive in the paint on a dribble drive. Reggie is dancing and prancing out there much of the time. He looks timid unlike his first season as a Piston. Other players have to assert themselves in the offense and must be given an opportunity to do that. I noticed that Kennard didn't touch the basketball at all for about the first 4 minutes of the game. Meanwhile Blake was forcing everything on a night when the Bucks were determined to stop him at any cost. That means every other Piston player who was out there with Blake should have had a much easier time scoring.

Now for coaching. When Blake gets in one of those moments when he believes that he alone has the will and ability to beat 5 defenders, where is Dwayne. He is the head coach. The coach is supposed to make corrections during games. But this coach tip toes around issues that affect the outcome of game. Who is in charge? It appears to me that Blake is in charge and Casey washes Blake's jock strap after the games. I like Griffin's determination and will to compete every night. But someone needs to be in charge when Blake gets off course. It was incredible that it appeared there was no coach at all to stop the bleeding at times in that game. Simply take Griffin out of the game after he turns the ball over three times in a row. He can then settle down and be more effective after reflecting on the mistakes he made. But there was no way this coach has a set of balls. He only punishes the players that make mistakes who are in the last year of their contract like Stanley Johnson. I believe the Pistons would have won several games in that losing streak if Johnson had been played in crunch time and had the full faith of the head coach. Until Johnson arrived in Piston Land, he had always had the full backing of his coaches. They were able to draw out that leadership quality Johnson possesses. He has always been on the winning side of things until he landed in Detroit where coaches put him on a short leash. Last night fans saw the real Stanley Johnson. If he feels part of something then he will shine. If he is on the outside looking in then he will be tentative and fail. If he plays on the floor with Reggie Jackson, Johnson will fail most of the time. If he plays with players like Calderon, Johnson will play his ass off. I am so upset that Piston management will lose this young guy who for sure is going to tear up the NBA eventually. We get him for his rookie contract and that is it.

Meanwhile, Dwayne is in love with Galloway or maybe the Piston front office is forcing Dwayne to play Langston as much as possible. He as been on the floor too much in crunch time offering next to nothing on offense and really hurting the team on defense. So why is this happening? Are the Pistons planning a trade to including Galloway to lose the insane contract SVG gave him. I'll bet the Pistons are getting a lot of calls to see if the Pistons will trade Johnson. Maybe a sign a trade deal is in the works with Johnson because he is the only player outside of Andre Drummond, Luke Kennard or Reggie Bullock who anyone wants on this Piston roster. Maybe Ish Smith's expiring contract could be involved. Whatever happens I have no confidence that the Pistons will reverse their current history of insanity with their bogus trade deals.

One final comment on Dwayne Casey. He is a horrible head coach in my opinion and is mostly responsible for the losing streak being that he ignores the defects in the players he choses to close out games. You need some stops in crunch time. You need players on offense who move without the ball, share the basketball and know how to space the floor. Often the floor spacing is horrible for the Pistons when games are on the line and it seems that everyone is going one on one with no teamwork being involved in the half court offense. That is on the coach and nobody else. He appears to look at the game as a fan and only sees what he wants to see. SVG was not high on my list of high end game coaches who can make adjustments as the game progresses. But Casey is much worse and that is why his teams at Toronto always looked so bad during the playoffs.

By the way I thought Jon Leuer played really well against the Bucks. He surprised me a lot. Jon is setting screens and moving at all times in the Piston half court offense. He defense was pretty good as well and he made some moves with the ball and scored in some key moments too. Way to go Mr. Leuer and sorry that I have been so critical because of that big contract. And AD is improving a lot as this season progresses. It is the head coach that I am most disappointed with so far. He needs to make BG and more team orientated player and select the players who provide the best team chemistry. And Blake has to become more trusting of his teammates or all is lost.

I too believe this was a coaching loss.  It took waaay to long to understand that we were losing as a result of trying to attack a superior D "in the paint".   Unlike you (Cool), I think our defense was plenty good enough.  The problem was with how often our lame ass offense ended in blocks & strips fueling Buck fast breaks.  Milwaukee was too long and mobile in tight spaces for anyone not named Andre.
But, the decision that got my goat was having Blake shoot the final shot.  Bullock was ON for the entire game.  With 14 seconds remaining we could have run him off of as many screens as it took to free up a clean look.  I was watching from the arena and had no benefit of play-by-play or post game interview but sure would like to know if the coach (or anyone for that matter) spoke to that point.


Last edited by Sparma on Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:59 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Looking up some facts on NBA 3 point shooting)
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Coach Casey

Post  lemonpen on Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:05 pm

cool breeze wrote:
Sparma wrote:If this defeat accelerates the development of Plans B and C, it will have been worth it.

Kudos to Stanley for a great game (not that I want him out there taking nearly the last 3, or Blake for that matter).

I really try to avoid being the guy who blames the best player when the team fails.  Don't think I've done that with Blake this year, but I will tonight, his triple double notwithstanding, or quadruple double if we include his 10 TOs.

Milwaukee did a really nice job of keying on Blake, bringing a second and third helper.  A lot of poking at the ball from behind; he's a great ball handler for a PF, but he's not really a great ball handler, so it was just too much.  Even Kelser repeatedly brought up that he needed to get rid of the ball quicker.

Calderon with the best +/- for the Pistons, which I find to be a significant stat  for once.  I think the comeback had a lot to do with him providing relief for Blake, in addition to Stanley hitting like four 3s in a row.

And I loved it that Casey stuck with him again at the end (no fouling out this time), keeping Reggie J on the bench.  So I'm not celebrating a moral victory, but rather another sign that Casey's diligently exploring an alternative strategy to our Plan A that can only take you so far.

Great post Sparma. The announcers were hyping the triple double Ball Hog Blake managed to get but in fairness they also commented on those turnovers. What I see is that Blake is very predictable. Everyone including the fans can read his mind which makes it pretty easy for opposing teams to defend the Pistons. Blake is the MAN. It is not all his fault though. Piston teammates defer to him and always place the ball in his hands even though two defenders surround Blake at all times. Only Stanley Johnson dared to drive in the paint on a dribble drive. Reggie is dancing and prancing out there much of the time. He looks timid unlike his first season as a Piston. Other players have to assert themselves in the offense and must be given an opportunity to do that. I noticed that Kennard didn't touch the basketball at all for about the first 4 minutes of the game. Meanwhile Blake was forcing everything on a night when the Bucks were determined to stop him at any cost. That means every other Piston player who was out there with Blake should have had a much easier time scoring.

Now for coaching. When Blake gets in one of those moments when he believes that he alone has the will and ability to beat 5 defenders, where is Dwayne. He is the head coach. The coach is supposed to make corrections during games. But this coach tip toes around issues that affect the outcome of game. Who is in charge? It appears to me that Blake is in charge and Casey washes Blake's jock strap after the games. I like Griffin's determination and will to compete every night. But someone needs to be in charge when Blake gets off course. It was incredible that it appeared there was no coach at all to stop the bleeding at times in that game. Simply take Griffin out of the game after he turns the ball over three times in a row. He can then settle down and be more effective after reflecting on the mistakes he made. But there was no way this coach has a set of balls. He only punishes the players that make mistakes who are in the last year of their contract like Stanley Johnson. I believe the Pistons would have won several games in that losing streak if Johnson had been played in crunch time and had the full faith of the head coach. Until Johnson arrived in Piston Land, he had always had the full backing of his coaches. They were able to draw out that leadership quality Johnson possesses. He has always been on the winning side of things until he landed in Detroit where coaches put him on a short leash. Last night fans saw the real Stanley Johnson. If he feels part of something then he will shine. If he is on the outside looking in then he will be tentative and fail. If he plays on the floor with Reggie Jackson, Johnson will fail most of the time. If he plays with players like Calderon, Johnson will play his ass off. I am so upset that Piston management will lose this young guy who for sure is going to tear up the NBA eventually. We get him for his rookie contract and that is it.

Meanwhile, Dwayne is in love with Galloway or maybe the Piston front office is forcing Dwayne to play Langston as much as possible. He as been on the floor too much in crunch time offering next to nothing on offense and really hurting the team on defense. So why is this happening? Are the Pistons planning a trade to including Galloway to lose the insane contract SVG gave him. I'll bet the Pistons are getting a lot of calls to see if the Pistons will trade Johnson. Maybe a sign a trade deal is in the works with Johnson because he is the only player outside of Andre Drummond, Luke Kennard or Reggie Bullock who anyone wants on this Piston roster. Maybe Ish Smith's expiring contract could be involved. Whatever happens I have no confidence that the Pistons will reverse their current history of insanity with their bogus trade deals.

One final comment on Dwayne Casey. He is a horrible head coach in my opinion and is mostly responsible for the losing streak being that he ignores the defects in the players he choses to close out games. You need some stops in crunch time. You need players on offense who move without the ball, share the basketball and know how to space the floor. Often the floor spacing is horrible for the Pistons when games are on the line and it seems that everyone is going one on one with no teamwork being involved in the half court offense. That is on the coach and nobody else. He appears to look at the game as a fan and only sees what he wants to see. SVG was not high on my list of high end game coaches who can make adjustments as the game progresses. But Casey is much worse and that is why his teams at Toronto always looked so bad during the playoffs.

By the way I thought Jon Leuer played really well against the Bucks. He surprised me a lot. Jon is setting screens and moving at all times in the Piston half court offense. He defense was pretty good as well and he made some moves with the ball and scored in some key moments too. Way to go Mr. Leuer and sorry that I have been so critical because of that big contract. And AD is improving a lot as this season progresses. It is the head coach that I am most disappointed with so far. He needs to make BG and more team orientated player and select the players who provide the best team chemistry. And Blake has to become more trusting of his teammates or all is lost.

I too believe this was a coaching loss. It took waaay to long to understand that we were losing as a result of trying to attack a superior D "in the paint". Unlike you (Cool), I think our defense was plenty good enough. The problem was with how often our lame ass offense ended in blocks & strips fueling Buck fast breaks. Milwaukee was too long and mobile in tight spaces for anyone not named Andre.
But, the decision that got my goat was having Blake shoot the final shot. Bullock was ON for the entire game. With 14 seconds remaining we could have run him off of as many screens as it took to free up a clean look. I was watching from the arena and had no benefit of play-by-play or post game interview but sure would like to know if the coach (or anyone for that matter) spoke to that point.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:40 pm

Sparma wrote:If this defeat accelerates the development of Plans B and C, it will have been worth it.

Kudos to Stanley for a great game (not that I want him out there taking nearly the last 3, or Blake for that matter).

I really try to avoid being the guy who blames the best player when the team fails.  Don't think I've done that with Blake this year, but I will tonight, his triple double notwithstanding, or quadruple double if we include his 10 TOs.

Milwaukee did a really nice job of keying on Blake, bringing a second and third helper.  A lot of poking at the ball from behind; he's a great ball handler for a PF, but he's not really a great ball handler, so it was just too much.  Even Kelser repeatedly brought up that he needed to get rid of the ball quicker.

Calderon with the best +/- for the Pistons, which I find to be a significant stat  for once.  I think the comeback had a lot to do with him providing relief for Blake, in addition to Stanley hitting like four 3s in a row.

And I loved it that Casey stuck with him again at the end (no fouling out this time), keeping Reggie J on the bench.  So I'm not celebrating a moral victory, but rather another sign that Casey's diligently exploring an alternative strategy to our Plan A that can only take you so far.

Great post Sparma. The announcers were hyping the triple double Ball Hog Blake managed to get but in fairness they also commented on those turnovers. What I see is that Blake is very predictable. Everyone including the fans can read his mind which makes it pretty easy for opposing teams to defend the Pistons. Blake is the MAN. It is not all his fault though. Piston teammates defer to him and always place the ball in his hands even though two defenders surround Blake at all times. Only Stanley Johnson dared to drive in the paint on a dribble drive. Reggie is dancing and prancing out there much of the time. He looks timid unlike his first season as a Piston. Other players have to assert themselves in the offense and must be given an opportunity to do that. I noticed that Kennard didn't touch the basketball at all for about the first 4 minutes of the game. Meanwhile Blake was forcing everything on a night when the Bucks were determined to stop him at any cost. That means every other Piston player who was out there with Blake should have had a much easier time scoring.

Now for coaching. When Blake gets in one of those moments when he believes that he alone has the will and ability to beat 5 defenders, where is Dwayne. He is the head coach. The coach is supposed to make corrections during games. But this coach tip toes around issues that affect the outcome of game. Who is in charge? It appears to me that Blake is in charge and Casey washes Blake's jock strap after the games. I like Griffin's determination and will to compete every night. But someone needs to be in charge when Blake gets off course. It was incredible that it appeared there was no coach at all to stop the bleeding at times in that game. Simply take Griffin out of the game after he turns the ball over three times in a row. He can then settle down and be more effective after reflecting on the mistakes he made. But there was no way this coach has a set of balls. He only punishes the players that make mistakes who are in the last year of their contract like Stanley Johnson. I believe the Pistons would have won several games in that losing streak if Johnson had been played in crunch time and had the full faith of the head coach. Until Johnson arrived in Piston Land, he had always had the full backing of his coaches. They were able to draw out that leadership quality Johnson possesses. He has always been on the winning side of things until he landed in Detroit where coaches put him on a short leash. Last night fans saw the real Stanley Johnson. If he feels part of something then he will shine. If he is on the outside looking in then he will be tentative and fail. If he plays on the floor with Reggie Jackson, Johnson will fail most of the time. If he plays with players like Calderon, Johnson will play his ass off. I am so upset that Piston management will lose this young guy who for sure is going to tear up the NBA eventually. We get him for his rookie contract and that is it.

Meanwhile, Dwayne is in love with Galloway or maybe the Piston front office is forcing Dwayne to play Langston as much as possible. He as been on the floor too much in crunch time offering next to nothing on offense and really hurting the team on defense. So why is this happening? Are the Pistons planning a trade to including Galloway to lose the insane contract SVG gave him. I'll bet the Pistons are getting a lot of calls to see if the Pistons will trade Johnson. Maybe a sign a trade deal is in the works with Johnson because he is the only player outside of Andre Drummond, Luke Kennard or Reggie Bullock who anyone wants on this Piston roster. Maybe Ish Smith's expiring contract could be involved. Whatever happens I have no confidence that the Pistons will reverse their current history of insanity with their bogus trade deals.

One final comment on Dwayne Casey. He is a horrible head coach in my opinion and is mostly responsible for the losing streak being that he ignores the defects in the players he choses to close out games. You need some stops in crunch time. You need players on offense who move without the ball, share the basketball and know how to space the floor. Often the floor spacing is horrible for the Pistons when games are on the line and it seems that everyone is going one on one with no teamwork being involved in the half court offense. That is on the coach and nobody else. He appears to look at the game as a fan and only sees what he wants to see. SVG was not high on my list of high end game coaches who can make adjustments as the game progresses. But Casey is much worse and that is why his teams at Toronto always looked so bad during the playoffs.

By the way I thought Jon Leuer played really well against the Bucks. He surprised me a lot. Jon is setting screens and moving at all times in the Piston half court offense. He defense was pretty good as well and he made some moves with the ball and scored in some key moments too. Way to go Mr. Leuer and sorry that I have been so critical because of that big contract. And AD is improving a lot as this season progresses. It is the head coach that I am most disappointed with so far. He needs to make BG and more team orientated player and select the players who provide the best team chemistry. And Blake has to become more trusting of his teammates or all is lost.

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Live and learn?

Post  Sparma on Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:55 am

If this defeat accelerates the development of Plans B and C, it will have been worth it.

Kudos to Stanley for a great game (not that I want him out there taking nearly the last 3, or Blake for that matter).

I really try to avoid being the guy who blames the best player when the team fails. Don't think I've done that with Blake this year, but I will tonight, his triple double notwithstanding, or quadruple double if we include his 10 TOs.

Milwaukee did a really nice job of keying on Blake, bringing a second and third helper. A lot of poking at the ball from behind; he's a great ball handler for a PF, but he's not really a great ball handler, so it was just too much. Even Kelser repeatedly brought up that he needed to get rid of the ball quicker.

Calderon with the best +/- for the Pistons, which I find to be a significant stat for once. I think the comeback had a lot to do with him providing relief for Blake, in addition to Stanley hitting like four 3s in a row.

And I loved it that Casey stuck with him again at the end (no fouling out this time), keeping Reggie J on the bench. So I'm not celebrating a moral victory, but rather another sign that Casey's diligently exploring an alternative strategy to our Plan A that can only take you so far.
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Pistons Leadership

Post  BallinD on Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:51 pm

PISTONS.COM: “There was a play late, Marcus Smart got a little reverse layup, and I went to Dre and I said, ‘No more,’ ” Griffin said. “ ‘Somebody’s got to go through your chest or go over the top of you and they can’t do either.’ Next play down, Jayson Tatum went up for a dunk and you all saw that. That’s winning basketball. You guys see the box score and you see 20-20, but his effect on the game goes so much further than just the box score that those plays like he had tonight are why you come out with a win.”

Those sensational plays by their All-Star tandem, Andre Drummond and Blake Griffin, yes, those are essential to winning.”

B Nice to get a win tonight. Hope Weggie can embrace being a true facilitator cause we can do some damage with Luke and Bullock shooting and playmaking. But Weggie B. Weggie and he has repeatedly proven his talent for going “me-first Whole Hog” when he thinks nobody’s looking. But apparently casey’s watching, choosing to go w/Calderone down the stretch...who looked pretty-damn good with his 8 assists. We’ll need him tonight.
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Lemonpen

Post  Sparma on Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:50 pm

Lemonpen: "I think Weggie was pissed. On the first two possessions of his return RJ was nowhere to be found as we tried to inbound the ball. That left Bullock trying to bring the ball upcourt. Shocked Shocked Shocked Turnover! Weggie was standing in the far corner of the court."

Great observation concerning Reggie!

Lemonpen: "For the sake of your sanity, just look away"

Good advice! Hard to follow though when we're down to so few posters.
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Sparma

Post  lemonpen on Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:10 pm

Sparma wrote:Schedule: You make an important point about the schedule, Phil: "Also, January's schedule is just as tuff."  I don't know if it's just as tough, but it's tough.  If we play the way we did against Boston, and most of the way v Carolina, we'll be ok, but few gimmes out there.

Roster: Clarification: I don't like this roster much, but I do like the spirit of a lot of the guys, and how they seem to be hanging together in tough times.  Andre and Reggie are the two biggest question marks, not surprisingly, spirit wise.  Andre can be flaky and uncommitted, but he's got an all in side too, that we saw that night, eg, in that fierce (5th) block on would be dunker Tatum.  Reggie J's the one I can't really warm up to, in spite of his skill, because he too given to being a me first guy.  I have to give him some credit this year though.  His role has been diminished, and he hasn't been a big contributor, but his attitude appears to have been solid (so far!).  They panned to him when Casey gave Calderon his minutes down the stretch, until Jose foolishly fouled out.  I couldn't read anything off of his reaction, not that that says much.  
I think Weggie was pissed. On the first two possessions of his return RJ was nowhere to be found as we tried to inbound the ball. That left Bullock trying to bring the ball upcourt. Shocked Shocked Shocked Turnover! Weggie was standing in the far corner of the court.

Credit to Coach: Incidentally, that move by the coach belies the idea that the coach is just committed to paying the big salary guys.  That may well have been true of SVG, because Reggie was his guy, traded for, paid handsomely, with the O designed around him.  By contrast, Casey seemed happy to ride with a minimum salary guy down the stretch, rather than the high paid Reggie J.  That took some courage, given the possible volatility, and I give Casey credit.

Rationalizations: Also, is there always going to be an excuse for the losing side when we get a big win?  We beat GS and they're short-handed (true enough in that case).  AD finally holds his own with Embiid, arguably even outplays him, and Embiid's got a migraine.  After getting crushed by the Celts with a recovering Kyrie who scored three, the Pistons beat the Celts, convincingly for the most part, aside for a wobble at the end.  We're told that the Celts played their worse game of the year.
For the sake of your sanity, just look away.
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East and West

Post  Sparma on Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:10 am

I'd heard someone say that after GS, the next four strongest teams are in the East. Sounds about right.

Murph wrote:
cool breeze wrote:Take a look at the standings in the Eastern Conference. Four teams including Atlanta, Cleveland and Chicago have only 6 wins so we might assume they are preparing for next summer's draft. NY has only 8 wins while the Nets who beat up on the Pistons have only won 10 games. There are only 5 Eastern Conference teams who have better records than our Pistons. Detroit got their wins beating up on the bottom feeders with the exception of Golden State victory who played the Pistons will two starters out.

Then moving on up to the Western Conference the real truth comes out relating to who the Pistons really are this season. I believe the Pistons are no better this season than over the last two seasons. In the Western Conference Detroit might be lucky to be the 11th or 12th best team with no hope of making the playoffs. So in a sense we Piston fans can feel lucky that our team plays in the Eastern Conference. Still it might be smart to plan for the future and develop our young players and hunt for players in the G-League. I think the Pistons could trade Andre Drummond and still make the playoffs this season if that is all this owner has as his objective. Detroit won't get a high draft pick if nothing changes in the standings. There will be a slim chance of a super star coming to the Pistons though the draft. Maybe that is the way this owner likes it. Maybe he can sign Reggie Jackson to a new long term deal at the end of this season. He will be older and wiser after the end of this season too. And AD really likes Reggie too so everything is good. After all the Pistons play in the Eastern Conference.

Don...you are way off base.  The Eastern Conference is very competitive this season.  In fact, there are 4 teams in the East, Toronto, Boston, Philly and Milwaukee who can compete with any team in the west.  And with the Warriors nicked up, aging and not playing well this season, Toronto or Boston would very likely win the Conference, if they were in the West.  I mean all you have to know to realize the West is a shadow what it was in past seasons is that Denver is first in the Conference.


You're off base with Casey also.  I think Casey is doing a fine job under difficult circumstances.  He inherited a very flawed roster that was capped out.  The Pistons had very limited options financially.  Casey essentially had to take over SVG's roster, which only made the playoffs 1 time in 4 years, and squeeze as many wins out of it as he can, while the Pistons work through some of their worst contacts.  Casey will be stuck with this roster for one more year before the Pistons can gain cap relief when the contracts of Jackson, Leuer, Galloway and Josh Smith finally expire.

In the meantime, Casey is doing a good job winning with the vets he has, trying to make the playoffs, and developing his young players for the future, while Stefanski is drafting well and exploring the trade market for potential young stars.

SVG left Casey and Stefanski with lemons.  But they're doing well to make the best out of a bad situation.
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EC in Ruins? Hardly

Post  Murph on Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:33 am

cool breeze wrote:Take a look at the standings in the Eastern Conference. Four teams including Atlanta, Cleveland and Chicago have only 6 wins so we might assume they are preparing for next summer's draft. NY has only 8 wins while the Nets who beat up on the Pistons have only won 10 games. There are only 5 Eastern Conference teams who have better records than our Pistons. Detroit got their wins beating up on the bottom feeders with the exception of Golden State victory who played the Pistons will two starters out.

Then moving on up to the Western Conference the real truth comes out relating to who the Pistons really are this season. I believe the Pistons are no better this season than over the last two seasons. In the Western Conference Detroit might be lucky to be the 11th or 12th best team with no hope of making the playoffs. So in a sense we Piston fans can feel lucky that our team plays in the Eastern Conference. Still it might be smart to plan for the future and develop our young players and hunt for players in the G-League. I think the Pistons could trade Andre Drummond and still make the playoffs this season if that is all this owner has as his objective. Detroit won't get a high draft pick if nothing changes in the standings. There will be a slim chance of a super star coming to the Pistons though the draft. Maybe that is the way this owner likes it. Maybe he can sign Reggie Jackson to a new long term deal at the end of this season. He will be older and wiser after the end of this season too. And AD really likes Reggie too so everything is good. After all the Pistons play in the Eastern Conference.

Don...you are way off base.  The Eastern Conference is very competitive this season.  In fact, there are 4 teams in the East, Toronto, Boston, Philly and Milwaukee who can compete with any team in the west.  And with the Warriors nicked up, aging and not playing well this season, Toronto or Boston would very likely win the Conference, if they were in the West.  I mean all you have to know to realize the West is a shadow what it was in past seasons is that Denver is first in the Conference.


You're off base with Casey also.  I think Casey is doing a fine job under difficult circumstances.  He inherited a very flawed roster that was capped out.  The Pistons had very limited options financially.  Casey essentially had to take over SVG's roster, which only made the playoffs 1 time in 4 years, and squeeze as many wins out of it as he can, while the Pistons work through some of their worst contacts.  Casey will be stuck with this roster for one more year before the Pistons can gain cap relief when the contracts of Jackson, Leuer, Galloway and Josh Smith finally expire.

In the meantime, Casey is doing a good job winning with the vets he has, trying to make the playoffs, and developing his young players for the future, while Stefanski is drafting well and exploring the trade market for potential young stars.

SVG left Casey and Stefanski with lemons.  But they're doing well to make the best out of a bad situation.
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Schedule & Roster & Credit to Coach & Rationalizations

Post  Sparma on Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:28 pm

Schedule: You make an important point about the schedule, Phil: "Also, January's schedule is just as tuff."  I don't know if it's just as tough, but it's tough.  If we play the way we did against Boston, and most of the way v Carolina, we'll be ok, but few gimmes out there.

Roster: Clarification: I don't like this roster much, but I do like the spirit of a lot of the guys, and how they seem to be hanging together in tough times.  Andre and Reggie are the two biggest question marks, not surprisingly, spirit wise.  Andre can be flaky and uncommitted, but he's got an all in side too, that we saw that night, eg, in that fierce (5th) block on would be dunker Tatum.  Reggie J's the one I can't really warm up to, in spite of his skill, because he too given to being a me first guy.  I have to give him some credit this year though.  His role has been diminished, and he hasn't been a big contributor, but his attitude appears to have been solid (so far!).  They panned to him when Casey gave Calderon his minutes down the stretch, until Jose foolishly fouled out.  I couldn't read anything off of his reaction, not that that says much.  

Credit to Coach: Incidentally, that move by the coach belies the idea that the coach is just committed to paying the big salary guys.  That may well have been true of SVG, because Reggie was his guy, traded for, paid handsomely, with the O designed around him.  By contrast, Casey seemed happy to ride with a minimum salary guy down the stretch, rather than the high paid Reggie J.  That took some courage, given the possible volatility, and I give Casey credit.

Rationalizations: Also, is there always going to be an excuse for the losing side when we get a big win?  We beat GS and they're short-handed (true enough in that case).  AD finally holds his own with Embiid, arguably even outplays him, and Embiid's got a migraine.  After getting crushed by the Celts with a recovering Kyrie who scored three, the Pistons beat the Celts, convincingly for the most part, aside for a wobble at the end.  We're told that the Celts played their worse game of the year.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:10 pm

[quote="Phil1980boy"]First off Good win vs Boston. I looked at the schedule two weeks ago and I told my wife. The Pistons will be lucky to win 5 games in the month of December. The schedule is that tuff. Also, January's schedule is just as tuff.


Fultz trade. DO IT! BUT!


These are the guys I'm not moving. Luke, Johnson, Blake, Drummonds, Brown, Bullock, 2019 Top 20 protection, 2020, Top 15 protection.

I know Gores don't want to pay lux tax but you can't lose Stanley, Ish or Bullock. YOU CAN'T

The bad contracts of Luer and WIGGIE Jackson are coming to A end. He just going to have to pay the bill for now because you can't let those  guys walk. YOU CAN'T..


Don't get your hopes up but what you write makes perfect sense. Yet I am not a Fultz fan at all. He is much like Reggie Jackson without a jump shot. Fultz has a low basketball IQ and but has a fantastic agent. Philly made a huge mistake and many fans who watch the PAC12 knew it on draft day.

Granted the Pistons played a good game against Boston. But then Boston played their worst game of the season. Andre Drummond was outstanding in this game. Jon Leuer had his best game that I can remember. Galloway still couldn't defend anyone but who is looking for sure not the head coach. Bullock played his best game of the season and looked really fresh so who wouldn't overlook that hair cut? In this game Bullock, Galloway and Kennard hit long distance wide open shots. How refreshing but don't be fooled. The head coach didn't do the right thing for the team based on the previous game.

Why Dwayne Casey is a bad fit for the Detroit Pistons is the fact that Dwayne is not a guy who believes that defense wins games. He is an offensive type guy who believes he can win by out scoring the opposition. The main reason why Toronto never looked good in the playoffs during his stint there was because of that fact. Dwayne is a coach geared to playing regular season type games where on any nights opposing teams don't really want to play. they are not serious and give a fake effort but then the really good players get juiced up right before the playoffs and completely change who they are and kick ass and take names when it counts. Raptors management had enough of Casey's style. They got tired of losing. So he was a perfect fit for Tom Gores who loves smoke and mirrors featuring entertainment at half time to sucker fans to attend games. This Piston roster is very flawed. No fan who watches the games doesn't know that. But it seems that Dwayne doesn't know it at all. The Pistons stacked the roster with specialists shooters who can only do one thing well and even that one thing is suspect much of the time. Galloway is a perfect example. Eventually any player who shoots the ball as much as Langston does will have success at times. But how can you win consistently if you have the team stacked with players who cannot defend, pass well, or drive well consistently?

In the game before Boston, Casey started Kennard, Brown, BG, AD and RJ. RJ was a designated shooter and guarded the weakest opposition player. To me the team chemistry was fantastic in that game within the starting group. Blake didn't dominate the ball. Reggie didn't dominate the basketball. Brown and Kennard were in constant motion on offense. the ball was flying all around the court. Blake and AD looked much better. Reggie was a threat from distance. but best of all this was Kennard's best defensive game he has ever played. He and Brown kept constant pressure on opposing guards. Somehow this head coach ignored everything positive that those two players brought to the table. Galloway was not part of the group that allowed the Pistons to take a 10 and 12 point lead. Instead of rewarding the two players who were really responsible for creating that great team chemistry, Casey decided to trust his high contract players in the overtime and 4 minutes of the regulation. Sure enough, Casey must have loved to see Jackson being the guy who dominated the offense instead of being a spot up shooter. Jackson turned the ball over several times in a row and was never effective in the overtime. Galloway was horrible on defense so it was difficult to determine who was worse on defense, Reggie or Langston. Also another player who was really great on defense and also setting screens and passing was Stanley Johnson in that game. So when the Piston's opponent was scoring at will from the middle to the 4th throughout the overtime period, Johnson and Kennard were on the bench. Brown got a few minutes but he was playing with Reggie on offense so there was complete dysfunction as usual. I have never seen SVG do what Casey did in that game. Casey completely ignored what was happening and stayed with his losers. Got to play those big contracts at all cost right? SVG did some dumb things but he was never that dumb.

So Casey decided to reward both Jackson and Galloway when the Pistons played Boston. Good for him. Great job Dwayne. Make sure you don't ever start Brown and Kennard together again. That was a big mistake. Casey must hate to see good team chemistry with ball and player movement. He wants to see players stand and just shoot it from distance. and also it is important to see Blake Griffin force those shots. Yes this was a good win but what is going on behind the scenes is criminal. Casey will turn Galloway, Jackson, and Leuer into NBA All Stars. After all he must play the big contracts. Don't bother to see what is happening in the games. Just play the contracts and the fans won't even notice.

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Trade Talk

Post  Phil1980boy on Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:53 am

First off Good win vs Boston. I looked at the schedule two weeks ago and I told my wife. The Pistons will be lucky to win 5 games in the month of December. The schedule is that tuff. Also, January's schedule is just as tuff.


Fultz trade. DO IT! BUT!


These are the guys I'm not moving. Luke, Johnson, Blake, Drummonds, Brown, Bullock, 2019 Top 20 protection, 2020, Top 15 protection.

I know Gores don't want to pay lux tax but you can't lose Stanley, Ish or Bullock. YOU CAN'T


The bad contracts of Luer and WIGGIE Jackson are coming to A end. He just going to have to pay the bill for now because you can't let those guys walk. YOU CAN'T..


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Feeling better

Post  Sparma on Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:45 am

Yes, I enjoyed Calderon's spirit at the end too.  

And you're right that they were pretty shaky right at the end.

Casey wanted to finish up with Calderon, and rightly so because he makes the O purr in a way that Reggie J. doesn't.  For instance, once he was open for a 3 near the top of the key, but quickly passed it on to Galloway for the easier corner three.  And he made what should be a standard pass that we haven't seen recently, coming up the the right and throwing it horizontally cross court to an open Bullock for the 3.

Calderon's shooting poorly thus far this year, but with him, Kennard, and Bullock out there, you've got three really good shooters for their careers out there, along with Griffin who's having his best shooting year.  All of a sudden, you have a capable shooting unit out there, along with Drummond.  And four of that unit of five (Jose, Blake, Luke, Andre) are good passers too.  With Reggie J playing more with the second unit, along with the streaky Galloway, and the surging Leuer you've got a bench with some firepower.  Combine that with the hardworking defensive aces Johnson and Brown, and you've got something pretty good going.  And Zaza.

For better and worse, I think a key to making the thing go is our 37 y.o. PG, not just because he creates recognizable patterns of team play, but because he trades off with Blake on the ball, preventing us from being one-dimensional and predictable.  He's not exactly a building block for the future, but for now, he makes things run.  I'm glad to see Casey recognizing  the importance of such of player, in contrast to SVG who favored one ball dominant (rather than passing) PG after another (maybe with the exception of Augustin maybe, who wasn't an elite passer).

We're still just fighting to get into the playoffs, likely to get knocked off in the first round, but I like this team.  That is, I like the guys who comprise the team, rather than the organisation (and particularly the SVG regime) who put together a roster with little upside.  These guys are fighting hard, working for each other and for the coach.  It's been a while since I've seen such team spirit in the face of adversity.  I respect that, and enjoy it, even though I'm not converting to an optimist about the team's future, and even though I'm really unhappy with some of the moves that have been made to get us to this spot.


Oracle wrote:Yes that block on Tatum WAS spectacular, and big because it would have given them life and momentum.

Did you see Calderon's reaction when he fouled out? I LOVE the heart and desire to win and contribute, seriously I didn't think he that kind of fire in the belly left anymore... good to see!

Also good to see Reggie's streak of making 22(I believe) consecutive FT's in the 4th quarter... that's big time!
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Sparma

Post  Oracle on Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:21 pm

Yes that block on Tatum WAS spectacular, and big because it would have given them life and momentum.

Did you see Calderon's reaction when he fouled out? I LOVE the heart and desire to win and contribute, seriously I didn't think he that kind of fire in the belly left anymore... good to see!

Also good to see Reggie's streak of making 22(I believe) consecutive FT's in the 4th quarter... that's big time!
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Was that so hard?

Post  Sparma on Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:41 pm

Sweet to break our streak and Boston's.

Griffin with his standard big game. Drummond with 19/20. I know that LMAO says Drummond doesn't get the big memorable moments, but his 5th block, on Tatum, was huge and spectacular.

Calderon having a big impact, even without many points. And when he fouled out on a foolish move, Reggie J cleaned up nicely.

This looks like a sustainable kind of game. Galloway went 2-9 from 3, Stanley 0-3, so it's not as if there's no room for improvement. But both contributed, and it was a nice team effort. Still a rough stretch ahead until we get to Atlanta.
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