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R.I.P.

Post  lemonpen on Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:07 pm

Well, the Playa-Playa Andre Drummond envisioned himself is no more.  Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, Dre’s undressing, reveals a bu….  
Embiid’s decimation of Dre was about as dominant and efficiently performed as is humanly possible.  The opening minute featured an airball 3pt attempt by Dre, countered with a jab step fake & dunk by Embiid.  Things only got worse.    This clearly boiled down to a CLOWN versus a serious MickeyFinger.   Andre was reduced to clumsily fouling.  It was reminiscent of beat downs of yester-year, but worse.

The war is over, twitter and otherwise.  I can’t imagine there could be any reasonable walking or talking this back.  I reckon Dre will have to find something more useful to do with his thumbs.

But seriously, I gotta wonder how this affects AD here on out.    More motivated?  Whipped puppy? Focused on what he does well?  Or, does the diva live on.

One thing is for sure.  Whiteside ain't having a pity party tonight.  Correction:  Maybe he is.
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GRIII

Post  Murph on Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:04 pm

I see GRIII is finally getting the start tonight at SF, in place of SJ who is mired in a slump. clap

Let's hope Robinson can take advantage of this opportunity and hit some shots. I also think coming off the bench is the best role for Johnson. He can come in and provide some energy and defensive intensity.
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Don sums it up...

Post  Oracle on Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:37 pm

We're all saying some of the same things, but Don sums it up fairly well,
Don wrote:I am concerned with the strategy of the coaching staff more than I am with this one matchup between two centers(Exactly). The Pistons do not have the talent to play the style Casey wants them to play(Correct again). These players are not as athletic or skilled as most of the teams expected to make the playoffs. They need a different style that does not depend on 3 point shooting but does demand full concentration by all five players to provide outstanding movement including more complex screening so as to get more mid range open shots. By playing more of the shot clock with movement, the Pistons will not get beat as easily in transition.
That last part is directly out of the Larry Brown Playbook. Utilize the full clock if necessary to get the best available shot, and once it goes up, either get the board or fight hard on defense.

He knew that his team, while talented, was often going up against teams with greater talent, but his team had three major advantages. 

1. They were supremely disciplined
2. One of the best conditioned teams in the league, tenacious deep into the 4th, and
3. An iron will that started at the top, the coach.

This team, as far as we can tell right now, lacks all 3 of those things.

Remember that none of those things were true, even in LB's first month, it built over the season, and that team was a menace after the all star break. We don't have near that level of talent or coaching, but I don't expect that level of result.

What I do expect is a team that will get better, get into the playoffs and win a first round series or be the toughest out we've seen in a 7 game loss.
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Drummonds is Embiid B.I.T.C.HHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Post  Phil1980boy on Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:48 am

Didn't see the debacle;



Since you did not see it. Let me tell you. DRUMMONDS got embarrassed!!!!!!



I have been A basketball fan all my life. I never see One player DESTRY A guy the way Embiid Did to Drummonds. The closest thing to it was when Prime and Andre Rision got into A fight and Prime intercepted the ball and took it to the house!


Joel Embiid embarrassed Drummonds. You could had sold Drummonds for 2 cent.... He got totally F.U.C.K.E.D Every way possible. You name it, Drummonds got it done to him... lol lol lol
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:07 am

Sparma wrote:Didn't see the debacle; it sounds like a more radical version of what we've seen before between Embiid and Drummond.

Any hope that this transforms Drummond into a better player/man?

What does not kill me makes me stronger? (as Nietzsche first opined, and later Kelly Clarkson, as well as countless athletes).

Wasn't it the Lakers that lost by 40 to the Celts in the first game of a finals, only to storm back to the championship? (dang, I hope that example doesn't mean I'm comparing Andre to the Showtime Lakers).

Sparma you might be right. In the first quarter, Embid completely embarrassed our franchise center. After unleashing insults as to AD not being in good shape and over weight along with having no clue as to how to play defense, Embid came out in the first quarter trying prove everything he said. When AD walked to the bench, he was clearly embarrassed. No coach has been able to get AD in the mode of being a real paint protector. But when a fellow NBA player tweets insults and then backs it up before his home crowd and then comes out of the gate proving everything he said, perhaps that will provide motivation for Andre to lose some weight and seek coaching and really attempt to become a real defender.

I am concerned with the strategy of the coaching staff more than I am with this one matchup between two centers. The Pistons do not have the talent to play the style Casey wants them to play. These players are not as athletic or skilled as most of the teams expected to make the playoffs. They need a different style that does not depend on 3 point shooting but does demand full concentration by all five players to provide outstanding movement including more complex screening so as to get more mid range open shots. By playing more of the shot clock with movement, the Pistons will not get beat as easily in transition. And the coaches have to come up with something new on the defensive end. This year is going to be really challenging for this coaching staff. The answer is not keeping the same lame offense while adding Jon Leuer to it. Leuer is a guy who played a more controlled offense when he played in college. While I am not sold on his ability to complete with real NBA players on winning teams, I do believe that he has a decent basketball IQ and could be effective setting screens, making good passes and actually knowing all of the options in the half court offense. The Pistons play dumb. The don't make the extra pass. Players without the ball do not make the proper cuts to get open. What a challenge but somehow the coaching staff has to raise the basketball IQ level of these players and get them to play a more unique style that no other team plays. That is how they might make the playoffs and beat some teams they should't beat based on their overall talent. Stop beating a dead horse Mr Casey.

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Philly

Post  Sparma on Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:17 pm

Didn't see the debacle; it sounds like a more radical version of what we've seen before between Embiid and Drummond.

Any hope that this transforms Drummond into a better player/man?

What does not kill me makes me stronger? (as Nietzsche first opined, and later Kelly Clarkson, as well as countless athletes).

Wasn't it the Lakers that lost by 40 to the Celts in the first game of a finals, only to storm back to the championship? (dang, I hope that example doesn't mean I'm comparing Andre to the Showtime Lakers).
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One Man's Roses is Another Man's Rut-roh

Post  BallinD on Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:37 pm

Yeah, it stinks, but Casey thinks it's "part of the process."  No Kidding!  He may be right, but I doubt it!

MLive: There is no magic formula to fixing it. Just keep taking open shots and eventually more will fall, coach Dwayne Casey said.  "My last team (Toronto), we went through the same thing, 'Why are you shooting so many threes? You're not making any threes,' " Casey said. "Once they start falling, it's like, 'Wow, you're running this great, new offense.' No. The shots will fall."

But if he thinks Stanley and Weggie (career 32% 3p) just need more shots he's delusional, though I get it.  With the roster construction/cap space fiasco, he almost has to preach growth from within, but sheesh?!?!  Till we get Luke and Bullock back, we're in deep doo-doo.

The other thing is players (except for Bullock mostly) stand around while Blake is busy bullying the bad guys.  I know it's entertaining boys, but come on, move to get open so he can pass you the ball off double teams.  BBIQ is part of it and spacing is the result of it.

Oracle wrote:  A trade would smell good, so while we wait for our better 3 point shooters to emerge and Embiid to start leasing out condos in Drummonds massive dome, here is some food for thought.

Coaching: Ok, I'm not understanding where Casey is going with this roster, but it's early so I guess I need to cut him a little slack. However, when faced with a team of brick layers from downtown, at some point you have to coach the talent you have and stop jacking up so many 3's.  
Agreed, and even run some P&R with Weggie n Dre and with GR3, who can get up, use his athleticism.
Stanley Johnson: Murph said that Ellenson was a huge bust. Well, Stanley Johnson, the self proclaimed best player in his draft class may be an even bigger bust. No maybe about it, IMHO.I struggle calling either a bust because I don't think either has been used right or played to their strengths. Stanley is a scorer, NOT a 3 point shooter, he needs to be able to get closer to the basket, allowed to play bully ball down low against mismatches, and take the occasional 3 from the corner. Standing out there on the 3 point line, like KCP used to do is the definition of futility! Sadly, as inconsistent as KCP was out there, Stanley isn't even close to his level of capability. He needs to do this on the second unit...he is not a starter.  Period! Unlike Ellenson, there is hope for Stanley, but it's going to take some coaching awareness.

Solid Guys: Phillip is right, Kennard, Drummonds, Bullock, Brown Jr, and ZaZa are solid players for us. I would add Reggie and Ish to that list as well. Solid and talent are different but related to some extent. I think we have the talent to stay out of the lottery, but it also requires more role players that can deliver. No big 3 in history carried a team too far without very good role players, and that, IMO, is where the talent infusion needs to happen, and is the most likely place for a CAP strapped team to get better.  What could we get for SJ, Weggie, Dre? (not all in the same trade, tho).  Phoenix rumored to maybe be interested in a Weggie type player.  I'm finally ready to move on from Dre, not because of Embiid, just that I totally think he and Weggie are two peas in a pod...thin-skinned, poor decision makers, petulant, prone to pouting, even when the game is on the line.  Dre never should have been a cornerstone, and Weggie was never a true floor general, just a P&R guy with great burst (three years ago, but not any more).

Water under the bridge: We've traded away the best 3 point shooters we've had, and all of them have shot better than what we have left outside of Bullock. Avery Bradley was decent from deep, Harris and even KCP, but now Morris toils for Boston hitting big shots from deep. Harris would be a HUGE difference maker on this team, and I mean huge and Morris would not only play well, but provide additional locker room support and toughness  Can we trade for Tolliver? Can we dump Leuer; probably not!  Lotta questions, few answers.   facepalm .
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What happened to all the optimism coming out of training camp? So now are you willing to bust this team up?

Post  cool breeze on Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:29 pm

Posters were heavily critical of my wish that the Pistons would trade everyone on their roster that could be traded who commands a high price tag. The current highest paid players are not winning type players on this team. Therefore, the Piston front office needs to wake up and trade whoever other teams will take. However, this is the problem. AD is the only player some NBA team might take a gamble with. After all he is making $25,434,263 this season. There are other players in the NBA who have AD's number other than Embid. However, Embid told the truth when he made those statements to get under AD's skin. AD is over weight and he cannot guard a fly in the paint most of the time. But he can never guard Embid on any night at any time as of now. The same is true relating to Anthony Davis and others. AD is the only high salary player who can be traded so I would do it just to straighten out the payroll situation.

Stanley Johnson had another bad shooting performance and caused some turnovers as well. He played poorly. However, Johnson is not the problem. Fans need to stop this nonsense about Johnson being the problem. He is a free agent and most likely will not be back next season. His salary is $3,940,402 this year. Meanwhile the following players are the guys you should be upset about.

Blake Griffin -$32,088,000
Reggie Jackson - $17,043,478
Jon Leuer - $9,508,043
Lanston Galloway - $7,333,333
Ish Smith - $6,000,000
Robinson - $4,150,000

This front office is no better than the previous bone headed monsters. Henry Ellenson is the odd guy out. He makes $1,857,480. I would keep Henry. We know the players we have are not good enough but nothing is known about Henry because he has never been given a chance to play even in the G League. What teams could most of our highest paid player earn rotation minutes on?

I think the Pistons can still make the playoffs with this roster but so what. We do not have Embid. Griffin appears to be our best player by far but is he really a smart player or a leader type player? The front office has no chance of moving any of these players.

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It Doesn't Add Up

Post  WTF on Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:50 pm

As I said countless times the expectations should be that this team wins 55 game considering the amount of salary being poured into this rosters.  How sad that again I'm hearing the same repeated comments from prior seasons as if **** never change. 

We should not be having the same discussions about the same players every season. There's no growth in experience with any of them (RJ, AD, or SJ) many of you are repeating the same things over and over.  I could see if there was some actual improvement from season to season but it's not. When is enough is enough?

Embiid owns D like Sheed use to own Dwight Howard and SJ is just dumb as a doorknob on a window.  What can I say I haven't said about RJ he is the worst PG in Pistons history from a BB IQ standpoint.  I can't think of one PG in the history of this team who is a worse floor general than RJ period as a starter. Not Atkins, not Hunter, not Jennings and not even Knight.   o forget mentioning him in the same breath of a Zeke or Billups. 

I'm not impressed with Casey in the least.
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I smell something too...

Post  Oracle on Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:13 pm

Ballin: But it ain't a trade .  A trade would smell good, so while we wait for our better 3 point shooters to emerge and Embiid to start leasing out condos in Drummonds massive dome, here is some food for thought.

Coaching: Ok, I'm not understanding where Casey is going with this roster, but it's early so I guess I need to cut him a little slack. However, when faced with a team of brick layers from downtown, at some point you have to coach the talent you have and stop jacking up so many 3's.

Stanley Johnson: Murph said that Ellenson was a huge bust. Well, Stanley Johnson, the self proclaimed best player in his draft class may be an even bigger bust. I struggle calling either a bust because I don't think either has been used right or played to their strengths. Stanley is a scorer, NOT a 3 point shooter, he needs to be able to get closer to the basket, allowed to play bully ball down low against mismatches, and take the occasional 3 from the corner. Standing out there on the 3 point line, like KCP used to do is the definition of futility! Sadly, as inconsistent as KCP was out there, Stanley isn't even close to his level of capability. Unlike Ellenson, there is hope for Stanley, but it's going to take some coaching awareness.

Solid Guys: Phillip is right, Kennard, Drummonds, Bullock, Brown Jr, and ZaZa are solid players for us. I would add Reggie and Ish to that list as well. Solid and talent are different but related to some extent. I think we have the talent to stay out of the lottery, but it also requires more role players that can deliver. No big 3 in history carried a team too far without very good role players, and that, IMO, is where the talent infusion needs to happen, and is the most likely place for a CAP strapped team to get better.

Water under the bridge: We've traded away the best 3 point shooters we've had, and all of them have shot better than what we have left outside of Bullock. Avery Bradley was decent from deep, Harris and even KCP, but now Morris toils for Boston hitting big shots from deep. Harris would be a HUGE difference maker on this team, and I mean huge and Morris would not only play well, but provide additional locker room support and toughness.
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I Smell A Trade

Post  BallinD on Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:53 pm

But Casey, who sounds patient and hopeful, may not be so on board, yet. None of these are really his players, so he has no reason to hold onto a Weggie, a SJ, a Drummond, LG or Leuer, who is starting to get some burn.

It seems like he wants a high BBall IQ team to read and react, drive and kick and its more than likely that our floor general and our center and our wing-bust do not nor will not have those characteristics. He wants a defensive-minded team also, so currently we are a pretty schizophrenic assembly of players.

I hate to say this, but the Warriors were last year great at offense and defense. Read and react works on both sides of the ball. The team is cap-handicapped, but if SVBower could wrangle players like Morris and Illyasova and Harris, we can probably find players more complimentary to Luke and Blake, who I would build around, and of course keep Brown and Thomas, but also Bullock, who admittedly has shot poorly to start the season.

I just happen to think SVG acquired and paid the wrong marginal players (with the premise he was building around Dre and to a lesser extent Weggie). Maybe he's trying to showcase SJ and Weggie. I hear the Wizards are prime for a fire sale. Can we wrangle Porter, or Beal...we love us some wings.

Casey said we need 10-20 games to tell what we have. We're getting close and maybe his statement indicates his degree of patience with this experiment.


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PFs

Post  Murph on Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:11 am

Leuer played reasonably well off the bench yesterday with Drummond and Zaza in foul trouble.


I see the Pistons have already declined the option on Henry Ellenson's contract.  That means Ellenson is done here.  He will be an unrestricted free agent after the season, so there is no reason to play him.

Ellenson represents one of the biggest busts in Pistons draft history, right along side Darko and Autin Daye.  In fact, through three seasons, Ellenson performed much worse than Darko or Daye.

You know who the Pistons should have taken instead of Ellenson?  U of M star, Caris LeVert.  I don't understand why the Pistons don't make a point of drafting Michigan and Michigan State stars, whenever possible.


The Pistons are going to have to make changes to their starting line-up.  GRIII and Kennard when healthy need to start for Johnson and Bullock.  We need better shooting and more offense.
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This Pistons team is in need of A talent influx

Post  Phil1980boy on Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:37 pm

I feel bad for Blake. He on A lotter team. He the only Syble of any kind of talent. It's sad..


Reggie Jackson is OK. I would like to see Jackson as A 7th man off the bench. Back-up guard. He would do well.


Solid guys are Kennard, Drummonds, Bullock, Brown Jr, and ZaZa.


The rest of these guys are TRASH!! This team has ALMOST no talent. NONE!


Stan Van Gundy F.U.C.K.E.D this Organization over for the next 5 years minimum. No talent and up against the cap? WOW!

But the real person to blame is GORES!


I would trade any player on this team except for rookie salary guys and look towards the future.

I can't wait to see what this new management group will do with this no talent group of players. This team is lacking in A major way.
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Drummonds is Embiid B.I.T.C.HHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Post  Phil1980boy on Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:25 pm

Public Service Announcement to Andre Drummonds!!

Embiid PUNKED YOUR AZZ.

HE EMBARISED YOU Drummonds.


He PUNKED you Drummonds.


He made you like you don't even belong in the league Drummonds.


The bad part was when he made you foul him and then he went over to the referee and said, "that's on him right?" as he pointed at Drummonds but did not look at him.   lol  lol

How about the first play of the game when he gave Drummonds the jab....step, for A wide open DUNK!!  lol  lol


The most embarrassing part is Embiid is the basketball player Drummonds wish he was but will never be. He everything Drummonds wish he was. He can block shots, defend, rebound, shoot, score, shoot FT's, he can pass, he A all around ball player. And he can talk s.h.i.t and back it up. And he bully Drummonds every time.

The even worst part is HIS TEAM IS BETTER THEN Detroit's for the foreseeable future.


Hey ANDRE DRUMMONDS... Shut THE F.U.C.K. UP BRO! You his B.I.T.C.H He own your A.S.S.
FACTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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He's Not Wrong

Post  BallinD on Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:09 pm

Stanley 1/7
Jackson 2/10
Drummond 3/8
Brown 0/0

Now this in the modern era of NBA splurgtastic scoring.  Come On Man...He's trying to out SVG Old Yeller.  Old school defensive-minded (to a fault) coach.  Yikes!  Try to not continue to reiterate the definition of Insanity.  Oh, and BTW, let's needlessly wear Blake out b4 Xmas; he's all we got, but yeah, let's space the floor with B Brown and Broken Stanley. Players need to step up and so does Casey.  He's become a caricature of all the reasons his hire was questioned.  Iso ball and bricklaying.  Come on Dwayne, where's the analytics side of your brain?


Oracle wrote:Wise, I hope you're wrong, but I can't disagree with you on Casey unless something changes.

I was shocked in the Nets game when on the last play, the call was for Blake to go ISO and jack up a shot we all knew was going to be hard to get off.

WHY??? If you run a play with Blake attracting all of that attention, why wasn't at least two other Pistons wide open for a better shot?

If Blake was MJ, Zeke, Bird or LeBron, I say run the ISO, the odds are better than even one of those guys are going to score. Blake is good, but that play is a less than 50% play to me.

This is a team sport and we're going to be treated to another Embiid vs Drummond media circle jerk party today, and this should be a team win if we play right.

I hope Casey gets off the SVG teat and do more than jack up 3's and use Blake in ISO's, it's getting old!
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Real Estate Empire

Post  Murph on Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:12 pm

I see Embiid is expanding his real estate holding today.

Both Drummond and Zaza have been in serious foul trouble all day. And through 3 quarters, Embiid has 34 points and 11 rebounds to Drummonds 5 points and 3 boards.
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I hope you're wrong...

Post  Oracle on Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:09 pm

Wise, I hope you're wrong, but I can't disagree with you on Casey unless something changes.

I was shocked in the Nets game when on the last play, the call was for Blake to go ISO and jack up a shot we all knew was going to be hard to get off.

WHY??? If you run a play with Blake attracting all of that attention, why wasn't at least two other Pistons wide open for a better shot?

If Blake was MJ, Zeke, Bird or LeBron, I say run the ISO, the odds are better than even one of those guys are going to score. Blake is good, but that play is a less than 50% play to me.

This is a team sport and we're going to be treated to another Embiid vs Drummond media circle jerk party today, and this should be a team win if we play right.

I hope Casey gets off the SVG teat and do more than jack up 3's and use Blake in ISO's, it's getting old!
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Deja Vu

Post  WTF on Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:54 pm

Defense is all about Heart and Effort which this team doesn't fully have. They play defense lazy and I'm not just picking at our team but a lot of todays players do we just seem to more **** at it than others.

COY My Arse!!! he said his plan was to jack up 3's and more ISO so that's what they're doing they are not running plays.   Not seeing much difference from what SVG was doing with what Casey doing right now.  

Really how could all of you be sounding just like last season if everything was suppose o be new and exciting now that Casey is here.   The voice might be different coming from the head coach but it's the same ****.  

This team will be up and own all season and at it's end it will have 39 wins again.  Just like players are fundamentally under developed so are coaches and this seems to be Casey issue. Yeah he was more lucky than he was smart in Toronto. he'll be less lucky here.
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Don & Lemonpen

Post  Oracle on Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:06 pm

No time to make a lengthy comment, but I wanted to say that you both NAILED it, Lemon calling out player mistakes, and I really liked how Don called out the coaching staff, because as many mistakes as the players made, it looked to me like they had absolutely no plan(good catch Don).

Great stuff guys!
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:53 pm

lemonpen wrote:As hard as we appeared to struggle on O I think we easily scored enough to win.  
But, we can be so friggin undisciplined on D.  Twenty-four seconds is beginning to feel like an eternity.  Sooner or later we make another boo-boo keeping the opponent in the game.

- Time and time again we trail over the top of screens, surrendering the lane.  It’s no wonder we’re getting killed on points in the paint. Options?
- Ish fouling a 3pt shooter.  Twice.  Unheard of.  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes
- Brown, lunging for a steal, missing, only to watch his man jet into the lane creating another 2 on 1 situation at the rim. (not in crunch time, rookie)
- Griff, standing in the lane as his man receives a pass at the corner arc.  Swish.
- Nobody switching off onto Damn-wittie as he takes the inbound pass at the arc.  Swish.  It looked like Spence ran through a 6 man screen at the foul line.   What is the saying about playing like 5 strangers.
- Dre giving ground allowing the final dagger.
- Ish, lighting quick Ish, getting beat on dribble drives, without the assistance of a pick.

We don't always need big plays.  In the words of Mona Lisa Vito,   "just don't F - up".

Lemonpen is is good to read something that shows you actually watched the game. Great job taking the time to write about your observations.

I want posters to pressure this coaching staff to let them know that we know they are not doing enough as coaches to clean up basic mistakes. To me as a former high school coach who came in my first season trying like hell before the season started to know something about how the players performed the season before. What do you need to work on the most to get the most out of what you have to work with? Just simple common sense often works. Yet I have been amazed reading some of the comments that Casey made before the season started. Who wouldn't check out every game film you could find, try to communicate with the coaches who were fired to see if they would reveal any of their insight as to how things went so wrong over the past two seasons. Casey could have requested comments from Piston fans and gather their complaints or observations on things they saw. But is clear to me is the fact that next to nothing was done previous to training camp to identify the Pistons two biggest weaknesses. The team doesn't utilize all five players on offense. A dead giveaway for a low offensive basketball IQ team is when opposing defenses force the Pistons into playing only one side of the floor. It appears that there is no 2nd, 3rd or 4th option with the Pistons half court offense. The floor spacing is usually wrong. Movement is non existent for long periods of time because even the players on the court know how predictable certain Piston players have become when they have the ball in their hands. When players who seldom touch the ball in the half court offense actually touch it, they often look confused. To me that shows the team doesn't practice hard or with purpose. It also means that the coaching staff is not in control of things in practice or is content to just watch. Breaking down into small groups in practice will not simulate the potential power a team can have when 5 guys are in sync because they have practiced for long hours cultivating and understanding of the options the team has to bring success against any defensive strategy.

As you outlined the mistakes made by our professional players on defense is inexcusable. But it appears that the players especially when Spencer made that uncontested 3 pointer have no idea when they should switch or not switch. AD is still switching on to a guard who is already properly defended forcing his smaller teammate to try to defend an opposing center or power forward. How many hours have these Piston players spent working on defense in practice. High school players work long hours getting rotations down. And high school players at least used to easily switch from a zone full court press forcing sideline to a run and jump full court defense that when no turnover came could move into a half court 1-2-2 or 2-3 zone defense depending on your opponents strengths. These professional players keep it very simple and perhaps too simple for fans to actually enjoy basketball games very much. Even when all they have to know is what they need to do in a man to man half court defense, some players go brain dead. The NBA game is fast but there is no excuse for reaching or not staying in front of your man who has not yet used his dribble. There can be no excuses for AD not making sound decisions relating defensive rotations. AD is an amazing athlete and could make the Pistons a big winner if he could quickly read and react to what opposing teams are trying to do. I always loved the way Zeke and Laimbeer would stymie opposing team's plays by preventing the critical pass or doubling with Zeke releasing to snag a steal on the desperation pass situation they created together. They did it in the back court as well as within the half court defense. That was exciting basketball. AD would really get excited and want more of it if the coaches could teach him some of the tricks he needs to be the best he can become.

This Piston team has potential but they are way behind in the mental game. They have the ability to get much better so that is a good thing. But the coaches have a lot of work ahead but might not know just how hard it is going to be to create the best team possible. As of now, I am not at all impressed with Casey or his assistants and I had high hopes they knew what they were doing. Get off the lazy lame 3 point heavy offense and develop consistent movement with screening so this team can score in using the mid range game more. Be different and use the strength of the players for the best result rather then forcing the players to jack up contested 3 point shots. Go back and teach the fundamentals of playing solid defense. Otherwise this coaching staff will fail as all others have failed since Tom Gores bought the Pistons.

It would help if the Pistons had Spencer Dinwiddie who is not just an outstanding shooter. He has a high basketball IQ and uses it on both ends of the floor. Plus it doesn't hurt that he is exceptionally quick while being 6 foot 6 inches tall.What would it take to get Dinwiddie back in a Piston uniform????? And if Spencer were on the team that would mean there would be one less guard who needs help learning basic fundamentals on how to play defense. That would make the job of the coaches much easier. So the Piston front office shouldn't get a free pass when things don't go right either. Everyone needs to do their job if you expect to be successful. No lunch breaks for the Piston front office next week please.

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Nets Game: Death By A Thousand Cuts

Post  lemonpen on Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:38 pm

As hard as we appeared to struggle on O I think we easily scored enough to win.  
But, we can be so friggin undisciplined on D.  Twenty-four seconds is beginning to feel like an eternity.  Sooner or later we make another boo-boo keeping the opponent in the game.

- Time and time again we trail over the top of screens, surrendering the lane.  It’s no wonder we’re getting killed on points in the paint. Options?
- Ish fouling a 3pt shooter.  Twice.  Unheard of.  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes
- Brown, lunging for a steal, missing, only to watch his man jet into the lane creating another 2 on 1 situation at the rim. (not in crunch time, rookie)
- Griff, standing in the lane as his man receives a pass at the corner arc.  Swish.
- Nobody switching off onto Damn-wittie as he takes the inbound pass at the arc.  Swish.  It looked like Spence ran through a 6 man screen at the foul line.   What is the saying about playing like 5 strangers.
- Dre giving ground allowing the final dagger.
- Ish, lighting quick Ish, getting beat on dribble drives, without the assistance of a pick.

We don't always need big plays.  In the words of Mona Lisa Vito,   "just don't F - up".
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:55 pm

Murph wrote:Man...what a heartbreaking game last night in OT.

Sparma...the reason for the +/- number discrepancy was that the Pistons came out tired, flat and out of sync from the Boston game, and got down by 15 early in the 1st quarter.  Then Casey wisely subbed out most of his starters, and subbed in Zaza, Ish, GRIII and Bruce Brown.  They, along with Stanley Johnson, made up most of the deficit.  Then the Pistons seemed to wake up, and play the Nets neck and neck the rest of the way.

I think Phil and Don touched on an important point.  Our shooters have to hit their shots, especially Reggie Bullock, or we're going to struggle, and look bad doing it.  

Unless he hits his shots, Bullock is really good for nothing...he can't play D, he has limited handles, he doesn't look to pass the ball, and he doesn't rebound.  Unless, Bullock can find his shot, he needs to be replaced in the starting lineup with Kennard, once Luke gets healthy.

And Stanley Johnson has to stop shooting 3s, and figure out how to finish at the rim on lay-ups.  I like Don's idea of SJ working for mid-range shts that he can make, but that never seems to happen.

Last night our starting shooters clearly had tired legs.   OTOH, our bench shooters hit their shots for the most part.

Murph nothing has changed relating to establishing specific plays for players like Stanley Johnson. I keep seeing the potential of using both sides of the court meaning when Blake draws a double or triple team, that there are specific answers created by the coaching staff that will give easy baskets to players like Johnson. So far since Johnson as arrived no coach has created a play for him. That is what he needs. This team needs more structure.

To prove my point while watching the Spurs vs the Suns analyst Tom Chambers talked about how the Spurs offense is always in the attack mode using the same sets that were used with different players. The Spurs haven't bought the cool-aid like other teams that do not have the right players to run Golden State's offense. Steve Kerr used the offense that fit his players. If he were coaching the Pistons there is no way he would be in favor of the free style insanity that Casey and SVG decided on. Chambers advised that the Spurs coaching staff has players who work together as a unit to get good mid range shots. This is what Stanley Johnson spent long hours with coaches this past summer expecting that the new coaching staff would utilize Blake Griffin properly not as a player who forces shots against heavy pressure but works on seeing the floor better especially the opposite side from where he is trying to break down the defense.

Fans just look at stats to answer questions has to why their team lost a game they should have won. The Pistons lost this last game because of two reasons.

1, The starters were extremely tired from the rough and tumble game the night before with Boston. There was no way Blake Griffin would be able to play his power game effectively. The coaching staff had no specific game plan to beat the Nets. These coaches get paid a lot of money and should not be able to get away with just saying "go get em boys". They needed a game plan that would feature more screening off the ball where the Pistons could have had tons of great open looks on the weak side opposite of Griffen. The Nets had a good game plan. Double and triple Blake knowing he is head strong and likes to force things even with tired legs. He wants to win and this coach has no game plan so what else can he do? The Spurs with their rebuilding team would have destroyed the Nets easily. Their coach would have recognized the Nets weaknesses. Our coaches didn't deviate from their read and react lame low IQ game. This Piston team must not practice using both sides of the court. So what do they do in practice. I am smelling a rat. This coaching staff is not putting in the effort to create something more specific that will work for the roster they are supposed to be developing into a smart team.
2. Casey and his coaching crew had no plan to limit the same players who scored 50 points in the previous game the week before. How could Casey forget that quickly how LeVert and Dinwiddie scored easily against Jackson, Smith and Bullock. The Nets also like to draw AD out of the paint a lot. So while some of you harp on Stanley Johnson's low shooting percentage from 3, somehow you miss what he does for the team with his passing, screening a defense. Johnson and Brown should have been on Dinwiddie and LeVert. If there is any switching going on it should be between those two players. Instead, at the end, this coach had some of the weakest low thinking Piston players on the floor out of that timeout when Dinwiddie drained the 3.

Against the Nets, the Pistons looked disorganized and out of sync most of the night. The coaching staff had no positive effect on using a better strategy to fit the game that or the opponent they were playing against. Piston coaching staff grade - F. Tom Chambers would agree with my analysis.

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Post  BallinD on Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:29 pm

Don't Let Stanley hear you say that; you might give him some ideas... facepalm  pom pom
Oracle wrote:
BallinD wrote:Definitely feels like Groundhogs day around here these days, but couple things under the radar:
...$Dre shooting free throws .625
...$Ish shooting threes .462
...$Zaza quietly impressive
...Stanley shooting blanks.286 (3), .383 (2), but doing other things— — polishes Casey’s shoes, washes Casey’s car, picks up his dry cleaning, cuts his grass...those efforts pay off in PT (28.2 mins)
...Weggie (.357) shooting worse than SJ ... .333(3)
For a minute, I thought you were going to say he's polishing Casey's knob... man, we dodged a bullet there  lol

Wise is right of course, but... for us homers, those rays of sunshine sure feel good. To vampires, well, that's a story for another time  lol
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Whew... Balling you had me worried there for a minute!

Post  Oracle on Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:48 pm

BallinD wrote:Definitely feels like Groundhogs day around here these days, but couple things under the radar:
...$Dre shooting free throws .625
...$Ish shooting threes .462
...$Zaza quietly impressive
...Stanley shooting blanks.286 (3), .383 (2), but doing other things— — polishes Casey’s shoes, washes Casey’s car, picks up his dry cleaning, cuts his grass...those efforts pay off in PT (28.2 mins)
...Weggie (.357) shooting worse than SJ ... .333(3)
For a minute, I thought you were going to say he's polishing Casey's knob... man, we dodged a bullet there  lol

Wise is right of course, but... for us homers, those rays of sunshine sure feel good. To vampires, well, that's a story for another time  lol
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WTF

Post  BallinD on Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:28 pm

Definitely feels like Groundhogs day around here these days, but couple things under the radar:
...$Dre shooting free throws .625
...$Ish shooting threes .462
...$Zaza quietly impressive
...Stanley shooting blanks.286 (3), .383 (2), but doing other things— — polishes Casey’s shoes, washes Casey’s car, picks up his dry cleaning, cuts his grass...those efforts pay off in PT (28.2 mins)
...Weggie (.357) shooting worse than SJ ... .333(3)
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Re: FORUM

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