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Wise

Post  Sparma on Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:22 pm

Great post, Wise.

And I'm with you (by and large) on the political stuff; scary how divisive it is though, also on the forum.

The forum's end does seem to be in sight, but it's been quite a ride, as you eloquently describe.

WTF wrote:It was only about sports and we escaped to such places like this forum to just get away from real life issues? That seems so long ago now and I miss those days of DetroitPistonsTalk being 50 to 60 posters strong.   It's now 2018 I've been doing this thing with some of you since 2004 that's 14 years and I now a couple of you were doing this thing long before me joining in.

We've gotten older our lives have change right along with everything else as time passes and so how we operate on this dying forum.  Politics, religion, race and economics has made it's way into sports rather we like it or not.  No longer can we discuss sports without some impact from all these non sports related
issues.   

I know this forum is on it's last leg and in no time none of us will be posting here.  I'll be sad when it finally happens but it has to happen this way there's no turning back or turning it off.  We've likely reached a point of no return on life in general and that sadden be as well,  it's sad that we as humans were unable to progress in a positive manner instead we've gotten worse over time simply because we can't find a way or method that love for humanity rises above our own self interest.   

We were already opening the flood gates with the introduction of social media into the sports environment with what should have been fun fan participation much in the way it was with Pistons Talk.  Sadly **** got real and the opinions went well beyond discussing stats and win and losses now we have a President that blew the flood gate off it's hinges that race has become the larger issue with sports,  along with politics and religion.  

The President **** is one part of it but sports itself is to blame because they open the door as well when they should have slammed it (social media door) shut.   I'm not surprise we've arrived to this point and I doubt if we're ever be back to a point that only sports matter because race and politics was always an issue with sports. it's going to always be that old pain of racisms rather one defending it, denying it the **** is real.

The Soul Fist at the Olympic Games,  NBA Owners using the N Word, OJ, Bruce Jenner, Jackie Robinson, Ali, Joe Louis, Ray Lewis, Jesses Owens, Sam Mitchell, Tim Tebow, and now Kaepernick all have brought into sports some form of religion, politics, race, criminal injustice, various social matters and various opinions. Will it end I doubt it, will it get worse I think so.   

The End Game is the End.
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Remember When......

Post  WTF on Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:56 pm

It was only about sports and we escaped to such places like this forum to just get away from real life issues? That seems so long ago now and I miss those days of DetroitPistonsTalk being 50 to 60 posters strong.   It's now 2018 I've been doing this thing with some of you since 2004 that's 14 years and I now a couple of you were doing this thing long before me joining in.

We've gotten older our lives have change right along with everything else as time passes and so how we operate on this dying forum.  Politics, religion, race and economics has made it's way into sports rather we like it or not.  No longer can we discuss sports without some impact from all these non sports related
issues.   

I know this forum is on it's last leg and in no time none of us will be posting here.  I'll be sad when it finally happens but it has to happen this way there's no turning back or turning it off.  We've likely reached a point of no return on life in general and that sadden be as well,  it's sad that we as humans were unable to progress in a positive manner instead we've gotten worse over time simply because we can't find a way or method that love for humanity rises above our own self interest.   

We were already opening the flood gates with the introduction of social media into the sports environment with what should have been fun fan participation much in the way it was with Pistons Talk.  Sadly **** got real and the opinions went well beyond discussing stats and win and losses now we have a President that blew the flood gate off it's hinges that race has become the larger issue with sports,  along with politics and religion.  

The President **** is one part of it but sports itself is to blame because they open the door as well when they should have slammed it (social media door) shut.   I'm not surprise we've arrived to this point and I doubt if we're ever be back to a point that only sports matter because race and politics was always an issue with sports. it's going to always be that old pain of racisms rather one defending it, denying it the **** is real.

The Soul Fist at the Olympic Games,  NBA Owners using the N Word, OJ, Bruce Jenner, Jackie Robinson, Ali, Joe Louis, Ray Lewis, Jesses Owens, Sam Mitchell, Tim Tebow, and now Kaepernick all have brought into sports some form of religion, politics, race, criminal injustice, various social matters and various opinions. Will it end I doubt it, will it get worse I think so.   

The End Game is the End.
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LMAO

Post  WTF on Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:40 am

All I said was way to go Nike  facepalm   

Dang Nike and Newports have the same logo  lol  Gee you burn and smoke Newports at the same time.
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I thought we moved on, but...

Post  Oracle on Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:21 am

Political correctness, while a big problem, isn't the biggest problem. Look at everyone's posts and see how each wants the other to adhere to some form of political correctness. Don reeks of it so much it's amazing, and I only bring him up because he's been that way so long it's ridiculous, not to mention his massive double standards that permeate both his sports and life postings. Sadly, he can't see himself at all.

Murph, I'm not an atheist because I believe in something, just not the God organized religion puts forth. They're like children who know that there's this invisible thing called electricity, but because they don't understand it, make it a God or a Devil.

No God would have laws that don't work in every circumstance, rules that can be broken, and what idiot would watch animals rape or hurt children and not stop it immediately. Hell nobody on this board would let that happen... so much for an all knowing and all seeing God. BTW, since God can do anything, how about going back in time and stopping the killing of the American Indians, or stopping the slave trade? Hey, it's never too late if you're all powerful.

If there is a God, his laws would be the laws of physics. Oddly the "God" equation, E=MC2, isn't understood by lay people, but if a God existed, he would have had to be in control of this equation, which governs the creation and destruction of matter.

But I digress! The real problem is that this country needs to enter a 12 step program, because we're in total and complete denial.

We pretend everything is not partisan, we pretend justice is blind, we pretend the country is not racist, we pretend we have a free market, we pretend everybody is equal. So we can't make America great again, America was never great. Greatness implies little room for improvement, and that so far from reality it's amazing people can say that with a straight face.

Until we stop pretending and start being honest with ourselves, none of our real problems will ever be solved. We'll just keep pushing the ball down the road, not noticing that the damn thing is ticking until it's too late. Amazingly Liberals believe everything will work out, Conservatives don't really believe that, but won't split off to do their own thing.

You can live with people that you disagree with, even if you argue a lot, but you can't live with people who's values are fundamentally and radically different... and why would you want that?

The bill will come due, but it'll come due to another generation... no one will forget, and when the majority becomes the minority, payment will be made one way or another.
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Oh Say Can You See

Post  BallinD on Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:29 am

Murph, I am pretty sure I never called you a racist, if you assume I did, I apologize for that miscommunication.  In fact if you read what I wrote, I never called anyone a racist.

For context, this issue has been ongoing for quite a while and it irritates the hell out of me that so many good ole Americans are freaking out and and making all kinds of hateful comments and ignoring/refusing to acknowledge the core issue which is police brutality and an obscenely biased criminal justice system.  This disproportionately affects people of color, but actually affects all Americans and feeds a for-profit-prison system housing 19% of all prisoners.

The Nike Ad brought this to a boil 22.6 million people who commented on, liked or retweeted that Nike would feature Kaepernick as the face of its newest "Just Do It" campaign.  The ignorance and vitriol is deafening and the same came from the President who called the protesters "sons of bitches" for exercising their right to free speech for a humanitarian cause.

My post referred consistently to "they," the great mass of people (black, brown, red and white, but mostly white), who ignore the issue and paint it as disrespecting the flag, when the history of the protests, and the statements of the protesters state has nothing at all to do with the flag or the military as many many in the military have attested.  The act of kneeling is a show of deference and respect, not disrespect. "Kneeling is a sign of reverence, submissiveness, deference—and sometimes mourning and vulnerability," Google.

The part in my post which was directed at you, Murph, was the part about Nike and the fact that objective reports and financial analysts state that the shares of all three big shoe companies dropped significantly.  

I can see how you got confused, but unless you fall in the category of the Good Ole American Racist, which I doubt, I was not directing those comments at you as a racist, but as one who did not acknowledge or recognize that Nike just gave significant traction to a critical American/humanitarian issue that Nike believes is of great concern to a majority of its demographic...29-younger overall of any race, and specifically minorities as well as those who recognize minority citizens' concerns.
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Who’s the Racist?

Post  Murph on Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:12 pm

I don't mind telling you, BallinD, that you're wrong on all counts.  I don't drink Bud Light (I prefer Sam Adams), I'm not Catholic (I'm an atheist who is not affiliated with a church), and I can't stand the Pope (he's a socialist do-gooder, except when it comes to protecting children).  

But I am a registered Democrat who attended one of the most liberal colleges in the country, and before I was married, I dated Asian women, African American women, Hispanic women, and Jewish women.  

So none of your stereo-types about white folks applies to me.  Sorry.


I just think it's ridiculous for Nike to pose as a corporate social justice warrior to sell shoes, after exploiting Asians in their sweatshops for decades.   lol  

Geesh.  What a bunch of hypocrites.


And I never even addressed the Kaepernick issue. My post was about Nike.


Oh...and one last point.  I wasn't the one that brought up Nike and politics...again.


BallinD wrote:Wow these good ole Americans are frothing mad in a fluster over Nike, a freaking shoe company. They committed the "sin" of  sponsoring a black athlete who successfully drew attention to police brutality and racial injustice (that anybody with an open eye and open mind can see clearly is a regular occurrence in this "land of the free and home of the brave."

Yet...yet these same good ole Americans mumble quietly into their Bud Lights or turn their heads when the Catholic Church priests rape their children.  "Silence.  Prayer," the Pope says, and duitifuly, the ever-dumbfounded (not racist, oh no) comply.  No uproar, no Twitter or any other kind of frenzy about that.  But they're all so mad because a Black football player had the nerve to kneel after consulting Nate Solder, a Green Beret, on how to respectfully protest police brutality vs people of color.  
facepalm  facepalm  facepalm
BTW Addidas and Puma stocks were down 2% the same day Nike's stock dropped.  Trump's trade war could be partly to blame, financial analysts said.

Murph wrote:Don...I don't know about all of that.  Some of that sounds pretty far fetched.

But what I do know is that Nike as a corporation has been one of the worst abusers of human rights over the last 30 years.  They are notorious for operating sweatshops throughout China, Thailand, Vietnam and S.Korea and other Asian countries.  Their exploitation of their workers, both financially and sexually, has been well documented.

So why the sudden change of heart?  How Nike all of a sudden become a corporate social justice warrior?  lol   Highly doubtful.  More than likely, sponsoring Kaepernick was a calculated, cynical attempt by Nike to help them sell more shoes. With Nike, it's always about the almighty dollar.  

I guess anything is possible, but IMO this is a major advertising blunder.  Rather than selling more shoes, I'm guessing this will drive Nike's shoe sales down.  

The stock market selloff in Nike shares since the announcement seems to confirm that this was a miscalculation.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:59 pm

WTF wrote:
Ballin wrote:Wow these good ole Americans are frothing mad in a fluster over Nike, a freaking shoe company. They committed the "sin" of sponsoring a black athlete who successfully drew attention to police brutality and racial injustice (that anybody with an open eye and open mind can see clearly is a regular occurrence in this "land of the free and home of the brave."

Yet...yet these same good ole Americans mumble quietly into their Bud Lights or turn their heads when the Catholic Church priests rape their children. "Silence. Prayer," the Pope says, and duitifuly, the ever-dumbfounded (not racist, oh no) comply. No uproar, no Twitter or any other kind of frenzy about that. But they're all so mad because a Black football player had the nerve to kneel after consulting Nate Solder, a Green Beret, on how to respectfully protest police brutality vs people of color.

BTW Addidas and Puma stocks were down 2% the same day Nike's stock dropped. Trump's trade war could be partly to blame, financial analysts said.

Ballin this just shows how much they hate people of color what funny is they're cheap asses weren't buying Jordan's and Air Max any way but instead buy out dated knock off version of Nikes at Marshalls or some cheap shoe outlet.  

One Mexican kills a young lady and they're ready to jump on all Mexicans 2 weeks later they're quiet as a mouse when one of their own shoot up a gaming event and kill a black person.  Screw these racist clowns.

When they think about America they think about all the racist vile activities they gave them a false sense of security.  Of course its okay priest touch boys because this is okay when you don't support morality.   Because they don't support morality they'll never get what Kap and Nike are doing it will never penetrate their racist thoughts.  

Maybe if they understood what morality means they could understand what that new ad is saying, SACRIFICE EVERYTHING perhaps Nike don't care if they're racist ass wear their product and logo on their racist feet so they don't mind the decline in sells.  

I doubt very seriously if they're dumb asses and protest had any effect on the Nikes sells anyway.   They best be careful that Nike don't create its own league NBA and NFL and take all of their black athletes.

Just know in some people minds if it ain't white it ain't right.   facepalm

You miss the point Ballin standing for the National Anthem was intended to honor fallen service men and women. My Father fought with a Black unit at the Battle of The Bulge and then went on to marry a Black women who gave birth to me. Many soldiers and airmen who happened by chance to be born Black died in wars those who fought or knew them and were proud stand and solute the flag. If we have Mr. K. wearing socks depicted as pigs while kneeling like he is taking a big crap on our country, then people will get upset. It just show ignorance and nothing more and hurts chances of people coming together and finally forgetting about race and past transgressions. Kneeling doesn't bring our country together it causes a divide which of course the intention of such acts.

Bringing up the issue of degenerate Priests is special. Maybe they molested a higher percentage of Black kids than White kids. I doubt that is true but your activist buddies should get on it and find out the percentages. Could be this is another strike against the Black race. Isn't it grand to think in terms of the color of our skin regarding every issue in life. Most people of color I have ever known just really want to be called by their names and considered American citizens not African-Americans which is a plantation term to identify Black slaves if you are not aware. You can thank our people from academe for bringing that term back in play. There are the activists who claim to be able to feel the pain of past transgressions of every minority person. March with those leaders and say, "What do we need?" You know the rest of that chant.  In another 40 years more people like you will keep playing the race card and the victim card. What are the Asians doing to better their lives? The Asians are laughing all the way to the bank. They don't play the victim card. It is difficult to do that when you hold grudges and keep stoking the fire of hate. You don't represent Black citizens who live in the USA. Everyone is an individual and is born with individual rights according to our Constitution. You should be focused on hoping our Constitution with the Bill of Rights remains intact. Many of us are tired of the bull crap because it prevents us from moving up to a new better level. You are dragging us down in the sewer. Rise above like Martin Luther King suggested. And remember the people in the military who sacrificed their lives for something other than themselves. We all know the game pan for progressives is to create mob rule. for a few years it will be targeting football games with the kneeling nonsense and then it will be something else. Perhaps to stop this political stunt, the NFL should not play the National Anthem. That would be better than destroying a tradition that honors brothers and sisters who died in war of all colors.

I think nobody is mumbling about the kneeling issue or Mr. K. The Clown is making money off his political protest because one idiot executive from Nike made a stupid decision for that company. Fortunately there are a lot of minority football players who do the right thing and maybe they all had it a lot rougher than Mr. K did in his childhood. The vast majority of sports fans who watch rich professional athletes play their sport just want to watch the game. Nobody wants to watch Mr. K. because he is not a very good player. They could care less what the players might think about things outside of their sport. It is fortunate for those of us who are minority people that most people do not believe that everyone is joined at the hip with K the Clown. We are not victims or political followers who can be led by the nose by handlers of Mr. K. Most sports fans still think those people who keep bringing politics into everything in life are a bit touched in the head and should be ignored. Lights, camera, action let the games begin and just ignore the nonsense because something new will be brought out in time. Maybe players who hold a grudge about something and need special attention, might have sex with a love doll at the 50 yard line while the band marches onto the field.


Last edited by cool breeze on Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:33 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : additional thoughts on the K effect and Nike)

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Ballin You Won't Win... No Point Trying

Post  WTF on Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:06 pm

Ballin wrote:Wow these good ole Americans are frothing mad in a fluster over Nike, a freaking shoe company. They committed the "sin" of sponsoring a black athlete who successfully drew attention to police brutality and racial injustice (that anybody with an open eye and open mind can see clearly is a regular occurrence in this "land of the free and home of the brave."

Yet...yet these same good ole Americans mumble quietly into their Bud Lights or turn their heads when the Catholic Church priests rape their children. "Silence. Prayer," the Pope says, and duitifuly, the ever-dumbfounded (not racist, oh no) comply. No uproar, no Twitter or any other kind of frenzy about that. But they're all so mad because a Black football player had the nerve to kneel after consulting Nate Solder, a Green Beret, on how to respectfully protest police brutality vs people of color.

BTW Addidas and Puma stocks were down 2% the same day Nike's stock dropped. Trump's trade war could be partly to blame, financial analysts said.

Ballin this just shows how much they hate people of color what funny is they're cheap asses weren't buying Jordan's and Air Max any way but instead buy out dated knock off version of Nikes at Marshalls or some cheap shoe outlet.  

One Mexican kills a young lady and they're ready to jump on all Mexicans 2 weeks later they're quiet as a mouse when one of their own shoot up a gaming event and kill a black person.  Screw these racist clowns.

When they think about America they think about all the racist vile activities they gave them a false sense of security.  Of course its okay priest touch boys because this is okay when you don't support morality.   Because they don't support morality they'll never get what Kap and Nike are doing it will never penetrate their racist thoughts.  

Maybe if they understood what morality means they could understand what that new ad is saying, SACRIFICE EVERYTHING perhaps Nike don't care if they're racist ass wear their product and logo on their racist feet so they don't mind the decline in sells.  

I doubt very seriously if they're dumb asses and protest had any effect on the Nikes sells anyway.   They best be careful that Nike don't create its own league NBA and NFL and take all of their black athletes.

Just know in some people minds if it ain't white it ain't right.   facepalm
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LMAO

Post  WTF on Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:26 pm

Maybe someone will come out with a more racist footwear to fit the needs of those hate Nike now  facepalm.  Maybe they'll call them the KKK's 2000 no doubt it'll be a cheap knock off of a pair of Jordans  fro pick
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Funny

Post  BallinD on Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:19 pm

Wow these good ole Americans are frothing mad in a fluster over Nike, a freaking shoe company. They committed the "sin" of sponsoring a black athlete who successfully drew attention to police brutality and racial injustice (that anybody with an open eye and open mind can see clearly is a regular occurrence in this "land of the free and home of the brave."

Yet...yet these same good ole Americans mumble quietly into their Bud Lights or turn their heads when the Catholic Church priests rape their children. "Silence. Prayer," the Pope says, and duitifuly, the ever-dumbfounded (not racist, oh no) comply. No uproar, no Twitter or any other kind of frenzy about that. But they're all so mad because a Black football player had the nerve to kneel after consulting Nate Solder, a Green Beret, on how to respectfully protest police brutality vs people of color.
facepalm facepalm facepalm
BTW Addidas and Puma stocks were down 2% the same day Nike's stock dropped. Trump's trade war could be partly to blame, financial analysts said.

Murph wrote:Don...I don't know about all of that.  Some of that sounds pretty far fetched.

But what I do know is that Nike as a corporation has been one of the worst abusers of human rights over the last 30 years.  They are notorious for operating sweatshops throughout China, Thailand, Vietnam and S.Korea and other Asian countries.  Their exploitation of their workers, both financially and sexually, has been well documented.

So why the sudden change of heart?  How Nike all of a sudden become a corporate social justice warrior?  lol   Highly doubtful.  More than likely, sponsoring Kaepernick was a calculated, cynical attempt by Nike to help them sell more shoes. With Nike, it's always about the almighty dollar.  

I guess anything is possible, but IMO this is a major advertising blunder.  Rather than selling more shoes, I'm guessing this will drive Nike's shoe sales down.  

The stock market selloff in Nike shares since the announcement seems to confirm that this was a miscalculation.
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Nike

Post  Murph on Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:59 pm

Don...I don't know about all of that.  Some of that sounds pretty far fetched.

But what I do know is that Nike as a corporation has been one of the worst abusers of human rights over the last 30 years.  They are notorious for operating sweatshops throughout China, Thailand, Vietnam and S.Korea and other Asian countries.  Their exploitation of their workers, both financially and sexually, has been well documented.

So why the sudden change of heart?  Has Nike all of a sudden become a corporate social justice warrior?  lol   Highly doubtful.  More than likely, sponsoring Kaepernick was a calculated, cynical attempt by Nike to help them sell more shoes. With Nike, it's always about the almighty dollar.  

I guess anything is possible, but IMO this is a major advertising blunder.  Rather than selling more shoes, I'm guessing this will drive Nike's shoe sales down.  

The stock market selloff in Nike shares since the announcement seems to confirm that this was a miscalculation.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:31 pm

Murph wrote:Yeah...way to go Nike.  I see their stock was down $2.60 and the company lost $3.75 billion in market cap today on the Kap news.  

What a bunch of morons to thrown themselves into this fiasco.  Talk about an unforced error.

Yep I will never buy a Nike product for the rest of my life. Never liked their running shoes or that logo anyway.

Just a thought but maybe everyone who originated from Northern Europe should knell when they attend a soccer game in Italy during their National Anthem. Nike could recognize an opportunity and market a incompetent pro soccer player who has been cut from several teams because he wasn't as good as his competition. The Roman conquerors sure turned a lot of people of all color into slaves and most of them lasted less than a month in the Roman mines. Those Italians need to be punished from past infractions just as all people not of color need punishment today. Forget the soldiers who died for their country in past wars.

But wait it shows in the the records that people of color owned, rented and sold slaves in America during the days when Slavery was legal in America. And it was the African tribes who were involved in human trafficking that brought people to the slave ships. And yes there were Blacks who worked on those ships too. But Nike is on the right side of things for sure.

It looks like everyone is a bit guilty and still holds something racist in their subconscious including the Italians who once conquered the world. Now I am concerned about what some of us who are products of a Black Mother and a White Father or the other way around. Should I stand on my head for the National anthem to protest both the old slavery days in the USA and slavery created by the Roman Empire? Or perhaps some of us beer drinkers should give the middle finger during the National anthem to protest Prohibition which prevented my relatives from purchasing our alcohol legally. Why did they make my relatives sneak around like criminals to get their beer. Damn it all! Let's create more hate groups so the hate can intensify and then a new progressive socialist totalitarian government can be formed out of the ashes. Meanwhile for the short term the GDP growth keeps on rising and more people are employed and making more money. Isn't that terrible? Maybe the government needs to raise the minimum wage so less people can be employed or keep Obama care so less people can have full employment. But most of all Nike will make sure the hate continues so the police who protect and serve can be the villains as Nike has Mr. K. Model their new sock brand showing Cops as Pigs. What a crazy world of gullible people. It never changes.

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Nike

Post  Murph on Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:38 pm

Yeah...way to go Nike.  I see their stock was down $2.60 and the company lost $3.75 billion in market cap today on the Kap news.  

What a bunch of morons to thrown themselves into this fiasco.  Talk about an unforced error.
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Stuff...

Post  Oracle on Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:26 pm

@Sparma/@Don: That was a tough loss, not because it was so close in score, but I thought that Michigan began to find themselves in the 4th. That last drive unfortunately ended when the QB lost the ball, but he certainly wasn't getting enough protection.

The good news is that they looked better than the Lions have so far. I sure hope preseason isn't an indication of how the Lions will be playing this year.

@Wise: Yup Nike made a statement, and Twitter is going crazy! One side loves it, the other hates it  lol lol lol
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NIKE

Post  WTF on Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:49 pm

Way to go NIKE!!!!!!
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:21 pm

Sparma wrote:Looking great in a short stretch in the 4th.

I wonder if a really tall QB (M rather than P) can compensate for being under continual pressure due to the OL with height giving a quicker overview and a bit more time to release.

In any case it looks like we're in for an upgrade in QB play (likely with P and a bit of M) this year and moving forward.

Oh for the days of the dominant OL!  And I going back to the 70s.

I agree Sparma. Michigan's offensive line and receivers sure didn't help the quarterback. Upset fans quickly forget the dropped passes or failure to run the pass routes correctly. The quarterback position is greatly improved from last season. ND seemed to dominate the line of scrimmage on defense as well especially in the first half. Still the Wolverines stayed in the game late into the 4th quarter playing away from home in the first game of the season against what looks to be a very talented team. I look for Michigan to rebound in a big way. Dumb penalties happen on opening night especially with inexperienced linemen.

Too much attention by media involving qualifying for the bogus National Championship game where no real playoff exists anyway makes losing a non conference game bigger than it should be in this day and age. Winning conference championships in football, basketball or any college sport should be the number one goal. I am sure those Michigan football players know what really counts. I hope either Michigan or MSU can win the Big Ten Championship but it might take a miracle.

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McCaffrey

Post  Sparma on Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:34 pm

Looking great in a short stretch in the 4th.

I wonder if a really tall QB (M rather than P) can compensate for being under continual pressure due to the OL with height giving a quicker overview and a bit more time to release.

In any case it looks like we're in for an upgrade in QB play (likely with P and a bit of M) this year and moving forward.

Oh for the days of the dominant OL!  And I going back to the 70s.
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UM 3rd Quarter

Post  Sparma on Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:54 pm

Looks to me like Shea Patterson could be outstanding, but he'd need a ton more help from a crummy looking OL to do so.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:53 pm

Oracle wrote:@Sparma, @Don: Houston is a team that doesn't need Knight to take the kinds of risks that lead to injury.

He can shoot the 3 ball very well, and for that team, his basic assignment is to bring the ball, distribute to others and be available to knock down 3's. All while working to nail down that 6th man of the year award  lol

Drummond was always a project! We all actually did him a disservice by assuming he was more ready than he really was.

I don't believe in giving up on big me too early, and Drummond is still very young. I get it, he's not where we want him to be, but he's showing a lot of progress and putting up impressive numbers.

IMO, he has 2 more seasons to state his case, but I think he's going to make a good enough statement this coming season, which is why I'm secretly very excited about this coming year.

Without any improvement, just health, this team, IMO, is a playoff team... HOWEVER, if
1. Drummond improves
2. Chemistry between Blake & Drummond grows
3. Reggie gets a clue

Then this team could possibly get to the 2nd round... but if
1. Stanley improves offensively
2. Kennard takes the next step
3. GR3 contributes
4. Ellenson/Leuer combine to deliver decent backup play

This team is a threat in the east. Not saying they land in the ECF, but they would be a threat to get there and be competitive.

Time will tell.

Well said Oracle and agree with all of your thoughts and especially your words about AD. I most likely have been the hardest of all on AD because I was hoping for much more development of his defensive ability. Both AD and Greg Monroe were drafted in the same area in their individual draft years. Greg came to the NBA with good low post skills and was an effective offensive player from the get go. However, Monroe never stopped being a liability on defense and didn't seem to care much about improving. I can't lump AD in that category. AD has better all around athletic ability arriving his rookie season as a unsound offensive and defensive player but still had the ability to rebound the basketball and win playing time. AD needs to change how he sees himself as a Piston basketball player and the sky is the limit.

I am hard on Andre because I see something in him that he doesn't see. AD could become a great defensive player if he is willing to get into superior physical condition that it takes to accomplish that feat. He needs to drop 20 pounds at minimum and most of all love the feeling of being the dominate center in the NBA relating to protecting the paint. He could change everything relating to team chemistry if he could feel the joy of being a great help defender like Ben Wallace etc. His teammates would love and respect him much more. Maybe Casey can stimulate AD to provide what his teams most from him. As you said, AD is still mentally very young relating to playing basketball and is young enough age wise to turn his game around where he can be a feared NBA basketball player. I am surprised that AD's agent has not prodded AD in that direction instead of improving his 3 point shooting. Last season AD showed he can improve his free throw shooting. Now Casey has to get AD to become a monster defender or this team will not go far.

Very touching speech by our all time Piston hero Isiah Thomas at Aretha's funeral. I loved the part about how he would look for Aretha and his Mom who sat together at the games when he was on the Palace hardwood looking up in the stands wearing his Piston uniform. On draft day when Detroit picked Zeke, I stayed up most of that night celebrating and feeling good times was just around the corner and that the Pistons would someday become champions. Thousands of Piston fans felt the same way. We fans sure were lucky to watch it all happen. Zeke wins the NCAA championship and is MVP and then he is suddenly on our team. I have never seen any player at any level play with as much heart as Zeke.

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Knight, Drummond, Season

Post  Oracle on Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:45 pm

@Sparma, @Don: Houston is a team that doesn't need Knight to take the kinds of risks that lead to injury.

He can shoot the 3 ball very well, and for that team, his basic assignment is to bring the ball up, distribute to others and be available to knock down 3's. All while working to nail down that 6th man of the year award  lol

Drummond was always a project! We all actually did him a disservice by assuming he was more ready than he really was.

I don't believe in giving up on big men too early, and Drummond is still very young. I get it, he's not where we want him to be, but he's showing a lot of progress and putting up impressive numbers.

IMO, he has 2 more seasons to state his case, but I think he's going to make a good enough statement this coming season, which is why I'm secretly very excited about this coming year.

Without any improvement, just health, this team, IMO, is a playoff team... HOWEVER, if
1. Drummond improves
2. Chemistry between Blake & Drummond grows
3. Reggie gets a clue

Then this team could possibly get to the 2nd round... but if
1. Stanley improves offensively
2. Kennard takes the next step
3. GR3 contributes
4. Ellenson/Leuer combine to deliver decent backup play

This team is a threat in the east. Not saying they land in the ECF, but they would be a threat to get there and be competitive.

Time will tell.
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Great opportunity for Brandon

Post  Sparma on Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:42 pm

Health permitting, he should be able to re-set his career in Houston.  Playing behind a couple of superstars will prevent him from placing himself at the center of the team's world (saving him from himself), but he'll still get every opportunity to contribute offensively as well as with scrambling D on distance shooters.  A perfect spot for him.  Hope it works out for him.

Oracle wrote:Knight, not even the 2nd bill in this trade, but could really have a great opportunity if he's finally healthy to backup Chris Paul.

Considering Paul's health issues and the fact that they probably don't want to over use him during the regular season, Knight could get a lot of starts and very significant minutes. Good luck BK7.

Rockets finally find taker for Ryan Anderson, trade him, De’Anthony Melton to Phoenix
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:50 pm

Murph wrote:
Oracle wrote:Are we interested in front court depth: Magic To Make Nikola Vucevic Available?

Would they be interested in Reggie again and what do they have that we would want: Pelicans Continue To Seek Point Guard Depth


That's an interesting trade proposal...Reggie for Vucevic and filler.  If the Magic wants to dump Vucevic so badly, they just might go for that.


That trade would make us weaker in the short run, but it would open up a host of possibilities.  

Vucevic's contract expires at the end of this year, so that would give us significant cap relief that we could use to pursue a more team oriented PG.

It would also make Drummond expendable.  For those who want to trade Drummond at the peak of his value, acquiring Vucevic, who is an accomplished center himself, would make that possible.  

Of course, if we traded Drumond, we'd have to re-sign Vucevic at the end of the season, or give him a contract extension.

Don is always wanting to dump Reggie.  And Sparma, Don and WTF are always wanting to trade Drummond for someone like Wall.  Well, this trade would make all that possible.

The question is:  Would a combination of Wall (or someone like him) and Vucevic be better than Reggie and Drummond?.  I think a lot of the posters on this forum would make that exchange.  

Personally, I might dump Reggie for the cap space that Vucevic's expiring contract would give us, and then try to sign a better PG in the off season.  But I would not trade Drummond.

Very interesting stuff Sparma and Murph. Thanks! Really enjoyed both posts and got excited reading them.

I would be completely shocked if Tom Gores ever agrees to a trade involving Andre Drummond. The reality is that AD's sidekick is Reggie Jackson. Tom Gores has tried harder than any owner that I have ever heard of to keep what he calls his franchise player happy. Mr. Gores consults with AD before he makes any trade or perhaps draft pick or so the Detroit beat writers have disclosed in past articles. And even if the owners defied AD relating to trading Reggie, I can't believe any team would be interested in his contract knowing the amount of his contract. My gut feeling is that the Pistons have perhaps received some interest in Reggie after his first season with the Pistons but no calls in the past two years. This season is as important for the future career of RJ as it is for the owners who at this time have no trading asset relating to Mr. Jackson. To make a trade happen now, I think the Pistons would have to include AD as a trade piece. Interesting to contemplate the possibilities of both leaving at the same time if things are not shaping up well before the trade deadline.

Some of us can dream but most likely the owners are very content with what they have regardless of the result at the end of this season. My other hope is that 1 to 3 of the supporting players have shocking success. That would be fantastic even if the team fails to make the playoffs. But if the current team leaders fail to create great team chemistry and fade at mid season, can the owners place the blame on the coaching staff or will they blame the fans for not showing up in higher volume for the home games? I liked Vucevic as a sure thing when he entered the draft. Loved the way he played in college and was surprised that he didn't get a lot of attention. Vucevic playing with Griffin could make both very effective players and winners. Adding Wall to the roster would made Michigan basketball fans go crazy with excitement. You have both made my day just thinking about the possibilities.

Now on to the start of college football. Go Blue! Go Chips! Go Spartans!

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:08 pm

Oracle wrote:Knight, not even the 2nd bill in this trade, but could really have a great opportunity if he's finally healthy to backup Chris Paul.

Considering Paul's health issues and the fact that they probably don't want to over use him during the regular season, Knight could get a lot of starts and very significant minutes. Good luck BK7.

Rockets finally find taker for Ryan Anderson, trade him, De’Anthony Melton to Phoenix

Knight's first knee injury was serious and difficult to overcome for anyone. But he is still young and determined so I like his chances. If only the Pistons had established stars who have a history of winning and then could take a gamble on players like Brandon Knight. He should thrive playing with the current team leaders at Houston. I will pull for both Knight and Paul to have injury free seasons. Both are outstanding men off the court and have always tried to play the game the right way. The Western Conference regular season games are going to be exciting.

It is a shame that maybe two of the teams that made the playoffs in the Western Conference last season could not play in the Eastern conference this year. I would love it if the current New Orleans team could be switched to the Eastern Conference now that Labron has jumped ship from Cleveland. Maybe throw Utah in as well just to make the games in the Eastern Conference more exciting. Boston should dominate but if that team gets hit with crippling injuries the NBA finals might be a dud.

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Brandon Knight goes to Houston...

Post  Oracle on Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:50 am

Knight, not even the 2nd bill in this trade, but could really have a great opportunity if he's finally healthy to backup Chris Paul.

Considering Paul's health issues and the fact that they probably don't want to over use him during the regular season, Knight could get a lot of starts and very significant minutes. Good luck BK7.

Rockets finally find taker for Ryan Anderson, trade him, De’Anthony Melton to Phoenix
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Trades/ AD

Post  Sparma on Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:22 am

Murph writes: "That's an interesting trade proposal...Reggie for Vucevic and filler. If the Magic wants to dump Vucevic so badly, they just might go for that.


That trade would make us weaker in the short run, but it would open up a host of possibilities.

Vucevic's contract expires at the end of this year, so that would give us significant cap relief that we could use to pursue a more team oriented PG.

It would also make Drummond expendable. For those who want to trade Drummond at the peak of his value, acquiring Vucevic, who is an accomplished center himself, would make that possible.

Of course, if we traded Drumond, we'd have to re-sign Vucevic at the end of the season, or give him a contract extension.

Don is always wanting to dump Reggie. And Sparma, Don and WTF are always wanting to trade Drummond for someone like Wall. Well, this trade would make all that possible."

I probably would go for that set of trades, which is similar to a proposal I made earlier in the summer.

My two main reservations about Drummond are a) as I observe him I don't think he really figured out positional D, even though he puts up good defensive stats, and b) I think his critics have a point in wondering just how much he helps his team win.

I do believe he could be a championship caliber center in the right situation. Maybe that would be playing alongside LeBron in a very clearly defined, and limited, role or maybe it would playing in San Antonio for Pops, who would make good use of him. Or of course on the Warriors as an upgraded McGee.

A thought experiment occurred to me concerning AD, Wallace, and Laimbeer. What difference would we expect if Wallace or Laimbeer replaced Drummond on this year's team? In Laimbeer's case I think he'd need a serious physical upgrade to hang in today's NBA, clearly being from a far earlier time. Still, if we put him in peak physical shape, what would we expect on the 2018 Pistons?

Wallace would be a better supplement to Griffin, I think. AD aspires to being a passing center (and I think he's pretty good in that role) and he wants offensive opportunities in close (he great on dunks and put backs, but beyond that questionable in his contribution). It quickly get crowded inside with him and Blake. Ben would bring clearly defined roles. I'd expect an upgrade on these Pistons, even though I wouldn't necessarily expect that elsewhere (eg the Warriors would be better off with AD than Wallace).

An optimally fit Laimbeer would be intriguing in today's NBA (as I remember he'd also need to significantly upgrade his outside shooting to count as the outside weapon he was back in the day.) And he couldn't get away with his shenanigans. Still, I'd expect him to be better offensively than AD. Would he, like AD, have troubles supplementing Blake. I think so. And where would his Mahorn be, doing dirty work alongside him, making them into a formidable duo? (Maybe Draymond Green is an updated, advanced model, Mahorn?) It's hard for me to imagine what a buff Laimbeer would do on today's Pistons, partly because he'd need to play differently and shoot better (although he's clearly ahead of AD there). I'm not able to say with conviction that there'd be a significant upgrade (even a more fit Bill couldn't clean the offensive boards like AD), but maybe I'm wrong. I suppose it would be terribly crabby to wonder how much better he would be than (a healthy) Leuer. That thought likely reflects my lack of imagination.
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