SVG

[Sparma]

BallinG: Yes, it will be extremely tough for SVG to restore his rep, and I'd be shocked if he can. I wouldn't be shocked if the Pistons won as many as 50 games next year though, which I'm guessing would be bad news for us fans in the long run, if it secured his re-up. He's does such a crummy job organizing the O that that may be a great long shot.

I wrote earlier: "I don't agree that the problem is entirely coaching ...."

Oracle asks: "SVG not the only problem?" and states: "To think otherwise requires some strange logic and weird double standards."

Note the discrepancy between Oracle's question and my statement. Paraphrasing my statement: the problem is not 100% (i.e. "entirely") coaching.

I don't want to go down another rabbit hole in responding to a "rant" (or a bit of one) but a few comments may clarify my views.

Might there be a sense in which SVG [i.e. in his full responsibility as executive and coach] is 100% the problem? Arguably, if what's meant is that he's the necessary condition for shaping the roster (with the notable exception of AD). That much may be true. Even concerning the (active) roster, I'd doubt a statement that our problems (or our successes) are entirely caused by SVG (e.g., there's a school of thought that Gores seriously affected the Griffin trade and that he'd resist trading Andre). And SVG doesn't work alone as exec, and some things just may be beyond his control (eg resigning KCP for a reasonable figure). What the role of Tellum? Of playing in a new arena? Of chance, e.g., the lengthy injury to Leuer (not to mention the exception granted the league, which hardly results from SVG's agency). The main guy was already here. It sounds like Gores just wouldn't have allowed his top exec to tank anyway (not that SVG was so inclined), etc.

When focusing on the possibility that the problem is 100% coaching, I'm not even sure what the assertion to the contrary of my position would mean. Also, in trying to fix causation here counterfactuals need to be invoked in a big way. Beyond that, we have limited access to relevant facts. And it's a huge job to sort out the variables involved. I'm comfortable sticking with my not 100% statement. If someone really could establish that it's 100% coaching, that person should publish an article or a book. Bill James is one who's retreated from the task of figuring out just what the role of the manager in baseball is, that after writing a book on managers.

My general position is that excellent (in comparison with replacement level) managers or coaches make a significant difference, and that poor ones do too, but that mediocre coaches and managers (in my view most of them) don't make much difference (again in comparison with replacement level).

I'll confess that a lot of that impression comes from personal experience, from having had a bunch of coaches as well as from being a youth soccer coach. As a coach myself, I might wish it were 100% coaching at times, but it just isn't. Not in my extensive experience with organized sports.

I think a formidable methodological apparatus (as well as fantastic knowledge) would be needed to sort out causality with precision.

And before getting the investigation underway in detail, significant clarification would be needed. For instance, the claim, if not just construed as nonsensical, could be:

a) There's a reasonable level of achievement that's not being attained in a given season, and the cause of that difference is 100% coaching.

b) There's an optimal level of achievement that's not being attained, and the cause of the difference is 100% coaching.

Even if we could agree to using one standard or the other, clearly there's a major problem in fixing what "reasonable" and "optimal" is (witness the range of our predictions).

Further, I think the proponent of either a or b would want to be able to factor in injuries, and their impact, so that the claim becomes something like "Apart from injuries and their impact...." But this clarification itself brings with it tremendous complications (e.g. what role did Reggie J's injuries play this year and last, and why did the impact appear to be different?).

So, at the abstract or theoretical level there are great challenges to be navigated.

When we turn to specifics, complications increase exponentially.

For instance, I think SVG's has handled Reggie J, Kennard, and Boban badly (but probably deserves some credit for the seasons of Andre and Reggie B). How to sort out coaching causality?

I'll take the case where I'm most sympathetic to the it's entirely the coach's fault position: Boban. It looks to me like Pops' playing Boban more minutes and somehow assisting him defensively resulted in optimal (??, or reasonable) productivity from Boban. But what kind of help did he give defensively? I need help here, but I'm guessing that Boban's terrific defensive rating with Pops resulted from adjusting how distance shooting was defended, counting on Boban as anchor near the basket, with other defenders freer to commit to more distance defending. But, if so, a lot depended on SA's defenders too, and not merely Pops' instructions. I'm inclined to systems thinking, and that's an example of it. And then there's another complication with Boban. He was traded, which should help us isolate coaching causality. When I looked up Boban a while ago, he seemed to be doing about the same as in Detroit: not playing much at all, and then playing great on O, and as rebounder, when in there. To me that signals that a great coach was able to get really good productivity from him, while two mediocre coaches managed about the same degree of productivity (fair?) as the other. Clearly, even my lumping SVG and Rivers together as mediocre coaches is controversial, and maybe just plain wrong (Rivers', after all, achieved way beyond SVG, but also with a much better roster & maybe he's doing a great job this year, and a better job with Harris than SVG). In all, in a case that I think might allow for a litmus test, the one in which I'm most inclined to agree with the position that I'm opposing, there are just too many complications for me to be able to agree that it's 100% coaching.

In a way, I'm saying nothing more interesting, or harder to defend, than that life's complicated, and so is basketball. And so is SVG's causal impact, certainly as coach.

[BallinD]

Great Post Oracle. Truth!

Two recent headlines from former SVG apologists lead me to believe others may be coming around to this point of view:
1. Detroit Pistons signings show pattern of overpaying for role players.
2. Detroit Pistons draft classes lack star power under Stan Van Gundy

And BTW, it is so hard to watch Weggie interviews. He just rubs the wrong way and from his play has not learned nor been coached up to do any damn thing better, nor improve on any of his failings, including overdribbling and ball hogging. Please Please Please get him out of here. He just rankles!

SVG not the only problem? To think otherwise requires some strange logic and weird double standards.

Let's see,

1. SVG is in charge of the front office
2. SVG hires all of the coaches and is the Head Coach
3. SVG develops ALL of the players either directly or indirectly
4. Outside of Drummond, this is SVG's team, he's hand picked every one of them

Anything that happens after that, when you control every lever of making a team successful is 100% the fault of the person making the decisions.

SVG is a below average President and a way below average coach.

1. He routinely fails to develop young players, in fact, he generally makes them worse than when they arrived(Stanley?)
2. A coin flip would give you better results of play calling out of a timeout than SVG's designs, worst I've seen here.
3. Halftime adjustments? They simply don't exist!
4. Substitutions? Generally all the wrong ones.
5. Playing players to match up with the other team? Sometimes, but most times he sticks with his old game plan
6. Ability to adjust his scheme to the players he actually has, not the players he wishes he had? Well, that's why we're in the situation we're in. He keeps looking for Mr. GoodBar because he can't figure out how to get the best out of the players he has... News Flash: Your old Orlando team isn't coming back!

I could go on and on, but you get the picture! I'm a little surprised that Sparma is on board with this thinking, but maybe he has reasons I haven't considered, although I'm at a loss to figure out what they could be.

But here is the double standard: Don lays into the players in a different way. For SVG, it's not all his fault, but for the players, ALL of it is on them. He easily forgets that coaching has a huge effect, but that's no excuse for them.

Of course this is the double standard used in many phases of American life. When there was an Opioid crisis in the inner cities, they were just bad people. No sense of urgency, no cry to congress to help. But now that the crisis is in rural America, there's no end to the coverage(Liberal & Conservative) and these people have just fallen on hard times, good people gone wrong.

The more things change... the more they remain the same.

[Oracle]

SVG not the only problem? To think otherwise requires some strange logic and weird double standards.

Let's see,

1. SVG is in charge of the front office
2. SVG hires all of the coaches and is the Head Coach
3. SVG develops ALL of the players either directly or indirectly
4. Outside of Drummond, this is SVG's team, he's hand picked every one of them

Anything that happens after that, when you control every lever of making a team successful is 100% the fault of the person making the decisions.

SVG is a below average President and a way below average coach.

1. He routinely fails to develop young players, in fact, he generally makes them worse than when they arrived(Stanley?)
2. A coin flip would give you better results of play calling out of a timeout than SVG's designs, worst I've seen here.
3. Halftime adjustments? They simply don't exist!
4. Substitutions? Generally all the wrong ones.
5. Playing players to match up with the other team? Sometimes, but most times he sticks with his old game plan
6. Ability to adjust his scheme to the players he actually has, not the players he wishes he had? Well, that's why we're in the situation we're in. He keeps looking for Mr. GoodBar because he can't figure out how to get the best out of the players he has... News Flash: Your old Orlando team isn't coming back!

I could go on and on, but you get the picture! I'm a little surprised that Sparma is on board with this thinking, but maybe he has reasons I haven't considered, although I'm at a loss to figure out what they could be.

But here is the double standard: Don lays into the players in a different way. For SVG, it's not all his fault, but for the players, ALL of it is on them. He easily forgets that coaching has a huge effect, but that's no excuse for them.

Of course this is the double standard used in many phases of American life. When there was an Opioid crisis in the inner cities, they were just bad people. No sense of urgency, no cry to congress to help. But now that the crisis is in rural America, there's no end to the coverage(Liberal & Conservative) and these people have just fallen on hard times, good people gone wrong.

The more things change... the more they remain the same.

[cool breeze]

Andre Drummond: I still enjoy breaking down specific games. Last night Andre Drummond proved once again that he is a horrible defender most of the time. He seems to concentrate a bit more late in the game but overall Andre Drummond is still a liability after many seasons of playing with different coaches. Last night he was outfoxed by a fringe player who had an exceptional night playing against our All Star center. One big moment was when AD switched off his man to guard Johnson's man who was driving towards the paint on the wing. The problem with that was Johnson had good position and was in front of the driver. AD decided to veer off of Motley who drifted out beyond the 3 point line and make a big 3 point shot at the end of the quarter. I saw the look Johnson had on his face after that. The television camera also went to SVG and he had a bewildered look on his face. Possession after possession Andre's man also drive around AD when our All Star center gave up baseline or decided not to move his feet and reached giving a clear path for a layup. I am perplexed that fans have bought the cool aide relating to AD. His rebounding stats are fantastic. But how can a team win with stats alone? We need more players with good basketball brains. AD does not have one. Can he acquire a better brain and provide his team with more solid defense? Would AD have a big target on his back if the Pistons ever do become a playoff team? Sorry I know none of you like it when I provide critical observations relating to the key player this franchise banks everything on to become a winner. If AD were just a guy making 6 mil a year and filling a position on the roster that is one thing. But when the owner and head coach banks no AD providing the team with leadership and star caliber play on the floor and cannot mentally do it, that is a obstacle that cannot be overcome to achieve overall success in the future. Can AD iron out his perception of at true leader and smart basketball player really is? It appears all of you believe he can. I have my doubts based on that one screw up by AD in the last defensive stand at the end of regulation. Great shot by AD's man to send the game into overtime. I was just puzzled by AD's reaction. I don't think he even knew that he was the player who caused the game to go into overtime. Incredible moment in time just like the game against Miami last season when AD failed to box out and allowed a fatal tip in over his head. Do any of you believe that opponents have AD's number and always will. There is a fine line to winning and losing. The great players know that.

Reggie Jackson was successful last night in doing what the owner and head coach brought him to the Pistons to do. He dominated Dallas at the end of the 4th quarter like the old Reggie. My problem with that is there is no way the Pistons can become a winner with that type of foolishness. The Pistons were playing the Mavericks and none of their key players were on the floor when Reggie played his one against five offensive game. All 4 Piston teammates of Reggie just stood and watched. AD was of course hoping for a pass in the paint but that was covered. So Reggie dribbled and dribbled and found a crack eventually making a variety of crafty shots. Would any of the current playoff teams have any problem destroying the Pistons if the team played the Reggie ball hog offense late in the 4th quarter? It is a good thing for Reggie to perhaps go solo once or twice in the last 3 minutes of a game, but to depend on that lame style has me wondering if the head coach actually has a brain that works at all. Maybe the Piston brain trust are thinking that once Blake Griffin is healthy (that will be a big if next season especially towards the end of the season) then maybe Reggie can open up Griffin for some uncontested jump shots in crunch time. However, I am a fan of Pop and Boston's head coach. They like to have all 5 players engaged and capable of being a threat in crunch time. That helps with overall team chemistry if everyone is involved. But SVG seems to ignore common sense and Reggie all the freedom he desires. I think that Stanley Johnson got zero touches in the 4th quarter. During that game, Johnson got a ton of deflections and steals and made some great passes for uncontested shots for his teammates. It seems to me that Johnson and others should be trusted to help break down the defense in crunch time. Johnson is a play maker. His shooting is suspect at this time but he knows how the game needs to be played for his team to win. He has always been that type of player. And for all of you who doubt his ability just reflect for a moment and understand that Johnson at 21 years old is the Pistons best defender and perhaps the best passer on the team. All also can create his own shot and can now finish on drives in the paint. He also punishes opponents with his physical nature. Next season Johnson will become the next Jimmy Butler. He will do it all well. And if I am wrong about that then maybe I am off by one year. Within two years Johnson will be a dominate player in the NBA. And most of you have written him off. Pretty sad but I hope Piston management knows who they have and will not give him away as a throw in for another Jon Leuer type player.

Throughout the season the player that stood out as the best Piston player of all was Anthony Tolliver. Some nights his shot wouldn't fall but nobody could ever see him not being engaged and prepared to play. As a starter he has stood out in the last month. That tells me a lot about this team. Management has spent a ton of money on players who have had no history of winning squat. During the key months of January and February our highest paid players were AWOL. However, Tolliver, the guy on a one year contract always came prepared mentally. The Tom Gores trade caused problems preventing the Pistons from having a chance to make the playoffs but overall, this Piston team showed that they are immature. Players play the game not coaches. With all the hype about the failure of the coaching staff which I agree with, my gut tells me that there are big doubts about the true character of our players. You have to hate like hell to lose like the players on the other teams that beat up on our Pistons during those months that separate the men from the boys. We still have a lot of boys. Will they finally become Men next season or put in the necessary hard work to get to a higher level mentally? I have big doubts about that but the Pistons are stuck in the mud and unable to trade either Griffin or Jackson. AD is the player I would trade if the return could be great enough. But that won't happen because of the owner's relationship with AD. So it is all up to AD to decide who he wants to be? Will he be content to make a lot of money and play on a losing or mid level team or will he decide to finally put everything he has into becoming the best basketball player he can possibly become? Everything banks on AD. All of the other current highly paid players in my opinion have limits on high much better they can become. Nobody can count on Blake Griffin to play an entire season. Plus he is a ball dominate player like Reggie. I like balance and players who share the basketball to spread a feeling that there really is a good bond with all the players. Selfish players kill team chemistry. No team wins with bad team chemistry. No coaching staff can create good team chemistry. So the composition of the team is critical to overall success. That is the biggest thing SVG screwed up.

The announcers were talking about Henry Ellenson in a positive way last night. I thought he looked awful. He was out of sync on both offense and defense from lack of playing time. But after missing some wide open looks, Henry didn't give up and made some shots last night. However, it is clear that Ellenson needs a lot of work. Again, I blame his lack of progression directly on the coaching staff and SVG's decision not to place Ellenson on the Drive for the entire season. Henry needs confidence more than anything else.

It is fun to watch the games now even though the Pistons are out of the playoffs. The end is near. Soon we will get to see a lot of teams that are better than the Pistons playing real basketball in the playoffs. I was a bit turned off with all the water works after the game last night when the announcer was trying to interview Reggie Jackson. It appeared that the Pistons players believed that they had just won the championship. There would never be a chance in hell that Zeke would have allowed that type of behavior to happen if he was on this team that could not make the playoffs. It didn't look like the players were pissed off at all with their overall position in the standings. It was time to party. They beat a non playoff team who played only one of their starters. Who are we dealing with when Tolliver will be long gone? The blind leading the blind??

If there is a coaching change who do you want as head coach? And what do you want from a new coaching staff? What style of offense should be used for this team? What style of offense is Reggie Jackson capable of playing if he is playing point guard? If Reggie Jackson is the designated starting point guard set in stone by the owner, who will take the job? Will one or two young players emerge next season as the key players on this Piston team? I believe that for the Pistons to win neither Reggie or Andre can be key players. One or both can contribute but cannot be the focus of the offense. And both Reggie and Andre will need to become more reliable defenders to make the team successful next year. Is there a coach out there who can make those two players better?

[BallinD]

@sparma...SVG is gonna need some luck to salvage what's left of his reputation.  Speaking of that, oh the irony of SVG spouting off about tanking and the Sixers, and ridiculing them, but the last laugh came even without Embiid playing as they spanked us, and tonight spanked Lebron.  They are for real.  Tanking worked. We can barely beat the tanking teams and lost to most of them.

But I am not advocating tanking because it is too late for that for us.  What can we do?  Weep and watch, I guess.

Good luck with that advice to Gores, BallinD.

I'd recommend getting rid of SVG altogether, but I'm not the one who'd need to come up with the, what, 7 mil for dude to sit at home.

I'm a tanking fan, but that seems to have become all too popular, hence a less reliable path to success.  Still, I'd go that way, if possible.  But is it possible?  You'd need to trade Griffin (best player since Grant Hill, as I saw suggested?), but I doubt you could without taking bad contracts back.  Trade Reggie B?  Sure, but you're likely to be worse off, again.

If I had a completely free hand, I'd try to get down to Andre, Reggie B, and Kennard.  Stanley J could stay on his rookie deal, but that gig's up soon.  I'd love to have Tolliver stick around at current pay, but his pay's likely going way up.

Realistically, my advice would need to be (even though sticking to tweaks really bugs me): 1) get rid of SVG, and bring in Billups/ Stackhouse (or a better combo if you can find one!), 2) hold on to the current core, 3) spend a ton of money trying to gain market advantages, especially internationally (as BallinD suggested), 4) take some big chances on vets who are down on their luck, like Rondo (as Murph suggested) two years ago.  Now, that would mean taking a chance on someone like Chris Bosh.

I don't agree that the problem is entirely coaching (for one thing, I share some of Don's doubts about Reggie J specifically, and the clunky roster has to do with the roster, as well as with SVG), but I do think moving SVG is the biggest and best thing that you're actually in a position to do (unless you're planning to move out of town, which Gores might like to do, but which I doubt the league would approve).  A few years ago, I enjoyed reading a book on the Tampa Rays and the "2% advantage".  That's what Gores needs to seize on now: operate smartly and decisively in gaining every small advantage in the market actually available to the team.  When SVG came in, I thought he might be the guy to do so (making several smart trades, and scouring NBA rosters effectively), but it's become clear he's not the guy.

Truth is that money talks, and unless Gores can see that even Blake "freaking Griffin" could not fill LCA, nor re-engage the fan base, will he be moved?  He likes SVG, wants desparately to believe in him.  I just added his Twitter handle Tom Gores(@Tom Gores) so I can tweet some reality at him.  

If an empty LCA won't move him, hard to see what will, though it's worth a try, I guess.  My hunch though, is that based on his cap mgmt, (Josh Smith, Moose, KCP, Langston Galloway, Boban -- arrogance and miscalculations) he will lose the big seat and keep the little one.  I want him gone gone, but I'll take it, especially if we can get some Pistons DNA in a leadership spot, overseeing SVG and protecting him from his worst instincts so as a lame duck he cannot do any more damage.  We need to get him a real assistant coach who will be in his ear!

WTF: There's no doubt that we can argue about a players ability but not as much as it being SVG not being able to coach to their talent.  Why keep trying to run an offense that your roster not suited for.  This is all on SVG and no one else.  How may times had many of us have said that if you give this exact same team to LB, Rick, Flip or Chuck they'll coach it to at least an ECF appearance.  

Do we have a Championship roster? Hell no, but we had one very capable of winning those 50 games many of you predicted they would. We had one capable of the 2nd round in the playoffs.  And when they were sitting 2nd in the conference and 1st in the division the first 25 games of the season some of you might have been thinking ECF.  Sadly the real SVG showed up and killed that dream not the loss of RJ.

Oracle: We've changed players and SVG keeps shuffling the deck, but once he starts coaching, rolling into the season, he keeps coming up craps!

At what point does Gores begin to see that the one looser that is a constant in all of this mess is Stan "F**king" Gundy!

[Sparma]

Good luck with that advice to Gores, BallinD.

I'd recommend getting rid of SVG altogether, but I'm not the one who'd need to come up with the, what, 7 mil for dude to sit at home.

I'm a tanking fan, but that seems to have become all too popular, hence a less reliable path to success. Still, I'd go that way, if possible. But is it possible? You'd need to trade Griffin (best player since Grant Hill, as I saw suggested?), but I doubt you could without taking bad contracts back. Trade Reggie B? Sure, but you're likely to be worse off, again.

If I had a completely free hand, I'd try to get down to Andre, Reggie B, and Kennard. Stanley J could stay on his rookie deal, but that gig's up soon. I'd love to have Tolliver stick around at current pay, but his pay's likely going way up.

Realistically, my advice would need to be (even though sticking to tweaks really bugs me): 1) get rid of SVG, and bring in Billups/ Stackhouse (or a better combo if you can find one!), 2) hold on to the current core, 3) spend a ton of money trying to gain market advantages, especially internationally (as BallinD suggested), 4) take some big chances on vets who are down on their luck, like Rondo (as Murph suggested) two years ago. Now, that would mean taking a chance on someone like Chris Bosh.

I don't agree that the problem is entirely coaching (for one thing, I share some of Don's doubts about Reggie J specifically, and the clunky roster has to do with the roster, as well as with SVG), but I do think moving SVG is the biggest and best thing that you're actually in a position to do (unless you're planning to move out of town, which Gores might like to do, but which I doubt the league would approve). A few years ago, I enjoyed reading a book on the Tampa Rays and the "2% advantage". That's what Gores needs to seize on now: operate smartly and decisively in gaining every small advantage in the market actually available to the team. When SVG came in, I thought he might be the guy to do so (making several smart trades, and scouring NBA rosters effectively), but it's become clear he's not the guy.

Truth is that money talks, and unless Gores can see that even Blake "freaking Griffin" could not fill LCA, nor re-engage the fan base, will he be moved?  He likes SVG, wants desparately to believe in him.  I just added his Twitter handle Tom Gores(@Tom Gores) so I can tweet some reality at him.  

If an empty LCA won't move him, hard to see what will, though it's worth a try, I guess.  My hunch though, is that based on his cap mgmt, (Josh Smith, Moose, KCP, Langston Galloway, Boban -- arrogance and miscalculations) he will lose the big seat and keep the little one.  I want him gone gone, but I'll take it, especially if we can get some Pistons DNA in a leadership spot, overseeing SVG and protecting him from his worst instincts so as a lame duck he cannot do any more damage.  We need to get him a real assistant coach who will be in his ear!

WTF: There's no doubt that we can argue about a players ability but not as much as it being SVG not being able to coach to their talent.  Why keep trying to run an offense that your roster not suited for.  This is all on SVG and no one else.  How may times had many of us have said that if you give this exact same team to LB, Rick, Flip or Chuck they'll coach it to at least an ECF appearance.  

Do we have a Championship roster? Hell no, but we had one very capable of winning those 50 games many of you predicted they would. We had one capable of the 2nd round in the playoffs.  And when they were sitting 2nd in the conference and 1st in the division the first 25 games of the season some of you might have been thinking ECF.  Sadly the real SVG showed up and killed that dream not the loss of RJ.

Oracle: We've changed players and SVG keeps shuffling the deck, but once he starts coaching, rolling into the season, he keeps coming up craps!

At what point does Gores begin to see that the one looser that is a constant in all of this mess is Stan "F**king" Gundy!

[BallinD]

Truth is that money talks, and unless Gores can see that even Blake "freaking Griffin" could not fill LCA, nor re-engage the fan base, will he be moved?  He likes SVG, wants desparately to believe in him.  I just added his Twitter handle Tom Gores(@Tom Gores) so I can tweet some reality at him.  

If an empty LCA won't move him, hard to see what will, though it's worth a try, I guess.  My hunch though, is that based on his cap mgmt, (Josh Smith, Moose, KCP, Langston Galloway, Boban -- arrogance and miscalculations) he will lose the big seat and keep the little one.  I want him gone gone, but I'll take it, especially if we can get some Pistons DNA in a leadership spot, overseeing SVG and protecting him from his worst instincts so as a lame duck he cannot do any more damage.  We need to get him a real assistant coach who will be in his ear!

WTF: There's no doubt that we can argue about a players ability but not as much as it being SVG not being able to coach to their talent.  Why keep trying to run an offense that your roster not suited for.  This is all on SVG and no one else.  How may times had many of us have said that if you give this exact same team to LB, Rick, Flip or Chuck they'll coach it to at least an ECF appearance.  

Do we have a Championship roster? Hell no, but we had one very capable of winning those 50 games many of you predicted they would. We had one capable of the 2nd round in the playoffs.  And when they were sitting 2nd in the conference and 1st in the division the first 25 games of the season some of you might have been thinking ECF.  Sadly the real SVG showed up and killed that dream not the loss of RJ.

Oracle: We've changed players and SVG keeps shuffling the deck, but once he starts coaching, rolling into the season, he keeps coming up craps!

At what point does Gores begin to see that the one looser that is a constant in all of this mess is Stan "F**king" Gundy!

[cool breeze]

We can find all the flaws we want to imagine Don when it comes to the players and that's okay but the bulk of the blame goes to SVG coaching and his decisions as President of the Pistons.  In fact because SVG functions in a dual role as Coach and President I would say all the blame is on him because these are his players, he put this roster together only AD remains from Joe's tenure as President.

These are also his assistant coaches, he hired Bower, the team physician, the water boy and towel boy so it is all on him and him alone.  How on earth can you be both coach and president and as head coach not get the players you need from your president.  This doesn't make any logical sense so not you can't as a fan argue not having the right players as being the issue.

Keep in mind that many were thinking this team could win 50 games before the season started with the roster they had so how can it be the wrong players? and again as President how can you not get the players need and as coach how can you not coach the talent you do have?  

There's no doubt that we can argue about a players ability but not as much as it being SVG not being able to coach to their talent.  Why keep trying to run an offense that your roster not suited for.  This is all on SVG and no one else.  How may times had many of us have said that if you give this exact same team to LB, Rick, Flip or Chuck they'll coach it to at least an ECF appearance.  

Do we have a Championship roster? Hell no, but we had one very capable of winning those 50 games many of you predicted they would. We had one capable of the 2nd round in the playoffs.  And when they were sitting 2nd in the conference and 1st in the division the first 25 games of the season some of you might have been thinking ECF.  Sadly the real SVG showed up and killed that dream not the loss of RJ.

I cannot find any fault in what you have said in this post. I find it puzzling that you have omitted the owner's group relating to the Blake Griffin trade. Yet maybe Blake will play great next season and be worth $35Mil. Who knows but I still go back to who in their right mind would make that trade?

Could it be true that SVG bet the farm on Reggie Jackson's ability to run that dysfunctional offense and AD getting 10 dunks a game? My question that nobody I know can answer is what other type of offense can Reggie Jackson be comfortable or successful running? Does anyone wonder if a coach like Jason Kidd took over the Piston team would tolerate Reggie Jackson's style relating to either offense or defense? I just do not believe Kidd would take the job if the owner said he would not remove Jackson. As long as SVG is the head coach, the team will not grow because he is unable to get his highly paid players on board with playing the right way or eliminating or even working on their weaknesses as players. It appears to me that SVG shows a lot of bluster but doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to challenge players like Jackson or Drummond to make significant changes in their style so the team can get better. Yet I do not really know if that is true. Perhaps both Reggie and Andre receive tongue lashings and are schooled by the assistant coaches over and over but nothing sinks in. We just cannot know if we are not part of the team in some way. I just cannot understand why after all this time, AD still cannot figure out that he needs to screen out players crashing the boards or keep contact with the guy he is supposed to defend to he can box out on the defensive glass. Simple stuff but I still do not see AD do the right thing most of the time on defense. the details that we fans see from game to game really do tell the true story. Everyone makes mistakes that cost their team something during every game. But when players keep making the same mistakes it has to be a combination of ineffective coaching and the character of the players themselves. When it comes to Reggie Jackson, who can figure him out? I can't for sure know the real Reggie as a basketball player. Maybe some of you know him much better than myself. To me, he looks like a guy who is flying by the seat of his pants and has no plan from one possession to the next. Also, he doesn't seem to adjust his game from opponent to opponent. Maybe that is the fault of the coaching staff for failing to identify to the players where the weaknesses are within a specific opponent's defense. Going back to the days of Zeke, he seemed to smell a rat or have some specific game plan for each team he came up against. He could play any style to get the best of every team he played against. He got his team on board to play that way as well. It wasn't the coaching during the glory days of the Pistons when Thomas ran the team. It was Isiah Thomas being on the floor and getting his team to play a specific way to beat the team they were playing against. You could have been the head coach WTF and the Pistons still would have won. Today, our players are needy. They have a lot of flaws. The current coach doesn't seem to be able to correct those flaws or doesn't have the guts to confront the highest paid players. He uses the younger more vulnerable players to single out and punish. He watches them closely and ignores the defects of what he considers his star players. Maybe that is normal behavior for coaching in the NBA.

Whoever the coach is next fall, it appears that most of the current roster players will be returning. It will up to them to figure things out. The younger players are now more mature. We have some who had been used to winning a lot before they arrived on the Pistons. Two players stand out to me who have never won much of anything and are our core players and their names are Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson. Maybe both players are getting tired of being on losing teams and will finally prepare for battle each night instead of once every three nights. And the influence of the young guys might be bigger next season too. Remember the Michael Curry story when Joe Dumars decided he should be the head coach because he thought that Curry could be the team's leader as well as their coach. It was pretty cool when Bill Russell was Boston's player coach. But it appears those days are over. Curry was a flop trying to motivate the Piston team he coached. Winning in the NBA has everything to do with who the players are. What kind of people are they? How serious to they take those regular season games? How must time do they put in to mentally prepare for each game. How hard have they worked to eliminate their weaknesses as players. What kind of leadership skills do the key members of a team have to give to their players. We have no Spartacus. My old high school coach used to ask us "who on this team will be Spartacus this season?" Somehow that all motivated us every time he made that statement. Basketball is a beautiful game when played the right way with players who have a strong bond. The Piston players appear to have a stronger bond than last season but it is still much weaker than all of the playoff teams. They have no Spartacus or Zeke. The Pistons need a new owner, GM, coaching staff, and at least one dynamic point guard. They don't have that guy yet and we only have a 2nd round pick this year. We fans must wait for better times but keep on screaming for positive change. We must be patient with the young players who often take 5 years now to reach their potential because they come to the NBA with too many flaws.

This is the end of another Piston season. It is good to reflect on it and then put it to bed. Meanwhile the press seems excited about shutting down Blake Griffin and now Bullock. What is that all about? More meaningless nonsense I presume.

[WTF]

We can find all the flaws we want to imagine Don when it comes to the players and that's okay but the bulk of the blame goes to SVG coaching and his decisions as President of the Pistons.  In fact because SVG functions in a dual role as Coach and President I would say all the blame is on him because these are his players, he put this roster together only AD remains from Joe's tenure as President.

These are also his assistant coaches, he hired Bower, the team physician, the water boy and towel boy so it is all on him and him alone.  How on earth can you be both coach and president and as head coach not get the players you need from your president.  This doesn't make any logical sense so not you can't as a fan argue not having the right players as being the issue.

Keep in mind that many were thinking this team could win 50 games before the season started with the roster they had so how can it be the wrong players? and again as President how can you not get the players need and as coach how can you not coach the talent you do have?  

There's no doubt that we can argue about a players ability but not as much as it being SVG not being able to coach to their talent.  Why keep trying to run an offense that your roster not suited for.  This is all on SVG and no one else.  How may times had many of us have said that if you give this exact same team to LB, Rick, Flip or Chuck they'll coach it to at least an ECF appearance.  

Do we have a Championship roster? Hell no, but we had one very capable of winning those 50 games many of you predicted they would. We had one capable of the 2nd round in the playoffs.  And when they were sitting 2nd in the conference and 1st in the division the first 25 games of the season some of you might have been thinking ECF.  Sadly the real SVG showed up and killed that dream not the loss of RJ.

[cool breeze]

I agree with a lot of the last two posters have said. It is true that Piston management and the press have conspired to create a big lie about why this current Piston team has failed this season. Right now this franchise is in no man's land. Nobody has a crystal ball but one big factor for the Pistons not making the playoffs this year was perhaps the biggest blunder of all which was not created by either the players or the coaching staff. To win in the NBA you need smart high basketball IQ players with amazing talent. Then you need coaches who can communicate and teach the young players how to win in the NBA by creating an offense and defense that works best for the specific players that are under contract. But perhaps the most important ingredient of all relating to creating a winning program is ownership. If you have owners who make close personal friendships with players and base roster decisions on those friendships or go off on your own and make insane trades against the advise of the management team you have hired, then the franchise is doomed to always be below average when compared to the winning type franchises like the Spurs. Who makes the decisions for the Spurs relating to personnel or roster positions? Is it Pop or the owner's group? What the Pistons have is complete dysfunction from the top on down. Right now I do not think this group of players could complete in the playoffs well regardless of who the coaches might be. The trade involving Blake Griffin made no sense at all. That is clearly on the owner and the ownership individuals who advised him to make the trade. The team had a much better chance of making the playoffs with the players that Mr. Gores traded. Note that SVG the guy everyone hates had no part in that trade. That fact must be made clear to all Piston fans. The players who were traded have made the Clippers better and the team is in a much more favorable financial position now. Detroit was a big loser. Not only did the team take on an insane contract but they gave up a number 1 pick in a strong draft class. You have to be an idiot to make that trade. So how can any Piston fan have any hope for the future now? The real truth is the Piston roster is average at best. The best player lately is Tolliver. The best players are not the highest paid players in my opinion. Griffin has always had injury issues. Has he ever make it through a complete season yet without taking a lot of time off? I tell you that trade will go down as the dumbest decision ever made by a Piston owner. The press has tried to cover up this blunder with smoke and mirror. The main stream media has always been corrupt since the old days with the Red Wings when the owner traded away his best player for speaking up for injured players who were living on the streets because of the greed of the owner in that time period.

SVG should be fired for his stupid roster decisions. The owner cannot take the blame for the loss of a 2nd round pick involving the Butter Ball trade. Nelson is over weight and way past his prime. This was a move based on an old friendship and a hope and prayer. Buycks can play circles around Butter Ball. And he is not in the rotation either. The press is also corrupt relating to protecting SVG as well as the Piston owner from any fallout when the team remains in no man's land. How many times this year did we read about the problems relating to bad luck this team has had because Jon Leur is unable to play? Remember at the end of last season when SVG continued to play Leuer big minutes after the Pistons lost that game against Miami when AD failed to box out his man and the Pistons lost on a second chance opportunity with a tip in over AD? SVG kept playing Leuer looking for something to substantiate that bogus free agent signing. Who in hell would have paid Jon Leuer the kind of money he signed that contract for other than an idiot who had no thoughts of long term success for the franchise? It seems all we have seen in the past 7 years is inept leadership from the ownership down to the GM and then coaching staff relating to the Pistons. Joe Dumars started it by trading Billups. Then he traded Knight and Middleton to the Bucks for Jennings. There were no offers on the table for Jennings at the time. The Bucks didn't want him back because his teammates hated playing with him. That fact was never considered by Joe Dumars. Then SVG decides to make a trade for Reggie Jackson. This was a similar situation where nobody on the Thunder team wanted to play basketball with Reggie Jackson. To me at least, when you know as a GM or should know that a player you covet has the label "selfish" or "extremely poor defender because of lack of effort" maybe that should be a red flag. But the story line was in stone created both by Tom Gores and SVG. We will make stars out of Jackson and Drummond with the 4 out and 1 in pick and roll offense. Fill the other spots with players like Leuer. Who cares about building a team through the draft when you suck. Instead the Pistons created a fake team built to finish at best in the 8th spot to just be good enough to make the playoffs.

If the old RJ-AD combination doesn't work or players like Morris stand up and hold a players only meeting then the ownership and SVG will shut it down and remove what they consider the cancer. Those players who question the logic of using the strategy that was not working must be punished.

The press, ownership and SVG's management crew have been working hard to spin the downfall of the franchise in the only way they can spin it. Last season Reggie suffered an injury so the Pistons got blown out consistently. But next season would of course restore the mojo the team had shown in the lone season where Detroit did make the playoffs but didn't win one game in the playoffs. Yes Reggie was hurt and that explained everything. This season started with no changes in the offense or defense. So it appears the coaching staff was content thinking the Pistons could win it all with Reggie Jackson and AD leading the way. They would be more mature this time around. Reggie Jackson would be ready to complete a full season and would be the closer in this two man show. Notice the other younger players played no part in anything. They were there to fill spots on the floor so the point guard could create everything needed for success. Besides fans love to see fast point guards dribbling around and somehow scoring against 5 defenders. They love it! We will give them that show. But damn it all, Reggie goes down with another big injury. For awhile after Reggie went down the media made a big deal of Leuer's injury. What will we do now with Leuer and Reggie both unable to play? This will be very difficult. Our backs are against the wall. Enough of this bull crap. The Pistons will never win anything with Jackson and Leuer. It won't happen. They won't win with SVG or this owner either.

We need the owner to agree to sell this Piston franchise. That owner will of course fire SVG. Then the Pistons will suffer though several seasons while trying to rid themselves of some of their contracts and big a team through the draft. There are 4 players worth retaining because they don't cost much money and are young. Those players are Johnson who has 3 years of experience but is only 21 years old. He is the best defender on the current team and will excel under the leadership of a new coach. Bullock is another player who shows great potential as an offensive scorer and athletic defender. Kennard is another player who has great potential and a great chance of being a leader because of his high basketball IQ. Luke should be moved to the starting point guard spot once Reggie is history. Some might say that is insane but I see him as a smart field general who will make great decisions on offense and can defend better than any of our current point guards. The other player is the forgotten Henry Ellenson who has been sitting on the bench now for two seasons. He should have been playing his entire first season in the D League. And if not used this season he should have had a complete season in the G league with the Drive. It was idiotic for SVG to sit him on the bench all season long and expect him to shine now. If he had been playing in games two to or three nights a week and building confidence as being one of the core players in the G League, if Henry had been brought up to the Pistons now, he would be confident, in great game shape, and would have worked out his timing issues and for sure gotten better on the defensive end. For that alone, SVG should be fired.

The only positive thing that I can say is that Andre Drummond got somewhat better as a defender this season. He still is not a smart player and he knows it. But now he is making a better effort on defense in the 4th quarter at least. And we have the other young developing players that I mentioned above. If the Pistons had a new coach with no vested interest as SVG has, I would think that the Piston offense would look much different. The new coach would not tolerate Reggie or Ish dominating the offense like they currently are doing. If a healthy Reggie picked his spots to go one on one and become a scoring force, that is OK. But in the last game, he was very consistent in his tendency to center the offense around himself. It seems that SVG has no control over either Reggie or Andre. He appears to be afraid of both players so how can they improve if the coach is a weeny who flaps his arms like a scared chicken from the sidelines? Under a coach like Pop, AD would have conformed to the role he needs to play for his team to win. He would need to cut out the nonsense relating to his offensive development and would be a supreme rim protector and help defender. Now his teammates need to help AD most of the time. You are all right, SVG needs to go. But we also need better players and a new owner. None of the above will be happening anytime soon. So all we can do is bitch. At least we don't have to worry about who the Pistons will take in the first round this summer. That stupidity is on Tom Gores himself. There was never a need to give up that pick. Instead, I bet the Clippers would have given a first rounder to the Pistons to take Griffin's contract. Dumb as a box of rocks and we fans can expect more dumb decisions in the future.

[Oracle]

All ready they're pinning this season on losing RJ   and maybe I'll agree if we were talking about advancing deep in the playoffs,  but losing RJ is not an excuse or reason for this team not making the playoffs as an 8th or 7th seed.  Please Local Media!!!!! you can stop with that BS right now.

SVG is the only reason this team failed PERIOD!!!!!!

We've all had a player or two that we thought might have been the problem, hell, we do need upgrades at a few positions.

But truth be told, we've had and have enough talent to be in the playoffs without any question! First round fodder? Maybe, but we should be there.

We've changed players and SVG keeps shuffling the deck, but once he starts coaching, rolling into the season, he keeps coming up craps!

At what point does Gores begin to see that the one looser that is a constant in all of this mess is Stan "F**king" Gundy!

BTW: too bad about Kyrie Irving,

Celtics: Kyrie Irving out 4-5 months

[WTF]

“Even though we knew the chances were slim, our guys had kept fighting. There was a real disappointment in last night,” Van Gundy said. “It’s been a difficult year for a lot of reasons and these guys, to their credit, have stayed together and kept fighting. It was a blow. It certainly wasn’t a happy locker room — nor should it have been.
“I expect that they’ll come out and play these next four games hard too and continue to fight.”
Though there’s no postseason to play for, there is the goal of a 41-41 finish and getting back to .500 after a miserable stretch with Jackson out.

Can you imagine our winning coaches patting the team on the head for not making the playoffs.  How sad that the fight is just to become a .500 squad at season end as if it accounts for something.   

Maybe our sports have become too liberal and politically correct because what should be happening in the media right now is that every local outlet should be screaming for SVG head the minute that e for elimination got place to the team name in the standings. I mean really every mistake-misstep should be put front and center and he and Gores should be called to the carpet on it. 

All ready they're pinning this season on losing RJ  and maybe I'll agree if we were talking about advancing deep in the playoffs,  but losing RJ is not an excuse or reason for this team not making the playoffs as an 8th or 7th seed.  Please Local Media!!!!! you can stop with that BS right now.

SVG is the only reason this team failed PERIOD!!!!!!

[cool breeze]

Smith was horrible in my opinion for the first 3 quarters. I have just finished watching the 4th quarter of the Philly game. Smith played like he had been playing in the previous games for the last month and helped the Pistons erase part of Philly's big lead. But there was never a doubt that Philly would win the game. Could it be that Smith was watching Reggie stink up the arena with his sloppy defense and ball hogging offense and finally in the 4th Smith was able to eliminate the vision of Reggie dicking around with the basketball while walking the ball up past half court and then screwing around in the backcourt without making one meaningful pass. That was the old Reggie that I had grown to hate last night. He fooled me a bit in some of the previous games. Now Reggie feels he is physically fit and in game shape. So now from the opening tip it is not team first but Reggie Jackson first relating to his vision of the game. That is why his teammates in OKC wanted him off their team. Seriously at one time in the first half Jackson could be seen dribbling around for an entire shot clock and then getting doubled in the baseline corner but still trying to get a shot off instead of passing it to the open wing player. Maybe it is better if Reggie has an injury and if he plays perhaps he will not try to me first approach. It seemed for awhile in this game, Reggie was dominating every possession and the result was that he did not make those tough shots that are contested. All the while SVG was watching from his coaching perch approving this style. Will we see the old pick and roll action featuring RJ and AD next season. They completed one pick and roll play last night. I'll bet SVG got real excited when that happened.

THE PISTONS NEED A NEW STARTING POINT GUARD. But the worst I feel that can happen is that SVG stands pat with Reggie and plays his same old lame offense because of Reggie. For sure that will be the last season for both players if that happens. And after the coach and starting point guard are gone, the Pistons might have their number one pick unless Tom Gores decides to give that one up too for no reason. There was no way that the Pistons had to include that number one pick for the Clippers to remove that obscene contract with Blake. Tom Gores gets the dunce cap award for NBA owners this season. There is no other owner close.

[cool breeze]

I am not mentioning how poorly both point guards played relating to doing other designated point guard duties such as making sure the team has proper floor spacing and getting the ball to the hot hand. So many possessions were ruined by Reggie Jackson's failure to even start the half court offense before 12 seconds were left on the shot clock. Reggie cannot think even 2 plays ahead and he is our starting point guard. He made maybe two good passes all night. And Smith had a really rough game playing before his old team. I think Smith was even worse than Reggie on defense and that says a lot. We do not have smart point guards. If their shots are not falling it disrupts the way they play in other areas. Both are the same in that regard. They keep forcing their shots on nights when they should be working at play making and getting the ball out of their hands and into players who are having better success. Just plan dumb low basketball IQ play last night and I we can expect more nights like this next season.

By the way in case our point guards still don't get it, Anthony Tolliver played an amazing game and had been hitting every shot going into the 4th quarter. Did AD get him the ball when he was wide open instead of going up against 3 defenders and missing his shots? Both Tolliver and Johnson were wide open on both baselines when AD decided to go it solo.

Two players stood out against Philly and their names are Tolliver and Johnson. Johnson had 19 points by the end of the 3rd quarter and had 12 in the 3rd total. Both of those players were also the two best defenders in this game although both could have played better on defense. The rest of the crew did not appear engaged at a high level when playing defense. By far our point guards were the worst two defender who received playing time.

I expected more from Ellenson. He must have been watching AD too much when sitting on the bench. Moreland also sucked in the minutes he got. So 3 out of 4 big men played horribly in this game. Tolliver was the only big man who was mentally prepared. It seems that this team still has issues relating to their failure to be mentally prepared to play in every game. During the winning streak the Piston players seemed a bit different and were excited and alert from the opening tip. Last night was clearly different. Philly was playing the 2nd of a back to back and looked much fresher. But I blame our point guards for setting the tone by playing sloppy and stupid. I didn't have the heart to watch the last 9 minutes of this game. Lazy - sloppy - boring - dull must have been the words going through the minds of the Piston fans who attended this game. The Pistons did an about face in military terms. The only question I have is how many nights will this same team look they did last night? The key players have a long history of playing this way. Are they really capable of changing who they are? I think the Pistons need new point guards before next fall. We cannot trust in their consistency.

[cool breeze]

Looking at the two teams early on in this last game, it was easy to see why the Pistons fell so far behind. The game started out with Philly setting great screens featuring both on ball screens and off ball screens from the opposite side from where the ball was located during Philly possessions. Meanwhile, this game started with Reggie Jackson featuring himself as the MAN. He shot early and often. I concentrated on what was going on within the Piston offense. AD was the only player in this Piston offense who was setting any screens for teammates. And his screens were just not effective at all because he was too late. Yet is that AD's fault? No because the Pistons run no set plays. The point guards try to create something on every possession when AD is on the floor. No weak side action involving any players can be seen. How easy is SVG's offense to defend? Where did the motion offense go? The Pistons tried to run it when Moreland came in but nobody set any screens so Philly's man to man denial defense left Moreland all alone looking for an open cutter or in fact anyone who could get open to receive a pass. And nobody could make the necessary effort to get open. All of the players now depend on the Piston point guard Jackson or Smith to do their thing which means get open with the ball in their hands and shoot it. Meanwhile, Philly players were moving without the basketball on the weak side after teammates set great screens. Their point guards with the exception of Fultz destroyed the Piston defense.

So the article on the opposite side of the page "Piston Ponder What Might Have Been With A Healthy Reggie Jackson" is laughable. When opposing teams are playing well, Detroit cannot compete consistently throughout a game because Piston point guards shoot the ball too early in the shot clock without getting all of their teammates involved in the offense if you can call the Piston's current offense a real offense. The Pistons are playing play ground offense where players get together and choose teams and then play without a coach. The Pistons play offense on a hope and prayer depending low percentage outside shooting and dribble happy point guard creators to create based on read and react type strategy. That style leaves the players who don't touch the basketball scratching their heads wondering what the hell is our point guard going to do on the next possession.

All these losing seasons the Pistons have suffered through and I see no change at all in the overall team IQ or the coaching IQ. Philly has suffered though many long losing seasons yet their head coach has taught his players how to play basketball the right way. It is good that Philly management recognize the quality of their head coach and have not replaced him. Now because of smart decision making by Philly management they have some top talent to run their offense. Great job and I hope Philly has a nice run in the playoffs. Meanwhile, our Pistons remain in first level play on the bottom rung always meant to be floundering around while their point guards show off their read and react creativity and the rest of the players wish they could be playing on another team. SVG has allowed this nonsense to go on and encouraged it. The Pistons has a nice winning streak where the point guards shared the basketball more than they usually do. Now their true colors have emerged again. If any of you have this game recorded, just watch the last half of the first quarter and the 2nd quarter and you can see the difference between the Pistons and Philly.

By the way, AD reverted back to his old form in the first half as well. He switched on the high pick and roll plays when the Piston guard was clearly in front of the Philly guard AD switched off to. So AD's man rolled to the basket wide open for an easy basket. Why do I mention this? If the Pistons ever do make the playoffs, opposing teams then breakdown all of the opposing team's weaknesses and exploit their bad habits. When you erase the hot shooting Piston players have experience in their winning streak that got them that winning streak, you can see the flaws which are basic fundamental weaknesses in individual player's games. I expect about the same Piston record next season if the coaching staff is not replaced and some trades are not completed.

[Murph]

The injury bug continues for Blake Griffin. Of his 8 seasons in the NBA, he's only been healthy for 3 of them. This year, he's played a total of 58 games, which is his second fewest number of games in his career. It seems totally unrealistic that Griffin will stay healthy for next year, and the 3 years beyond that, especially as he ages and becomes even more injury prone.

So we'll basically be paying Griffin $35 - $40 million a year for the next 4 injury plagued seasons, until his contract finally expires.

[Sparma]

Watched some of the end of the game.  Credit to Tolliver, and really everyone, for keeping going in a spirited way to the bitter end.  Tolliver and Bullock 11-15 on 3s!!?  Ish slapped hands with the guy mopping up liquid on the floor at the end.  Classy guy.  This is a pretty fun group really, just not good enough (Griffin out, but Embiid too, who's been killing us).

I've been a big fan of Philly's tanking, as you know, but hadn't expected them to be so decisively better than the Pistons this season already, both in direct competition and in overall performance.  In fact, I thought the Pistons would be better one more year.  And of course, Philly stands to improve more too, with better draft picks (currently #10, #26, as well as four (!!!) second rounders), more money space (for now), and better young talent.   Oh well, it's only a game.  And I do think we could be a lot better next season than this one (even though the long term outlook is dim).

The time of gaining a major advantage through tanking may be coming to a close, if too many teams join the run to misery.  It's one of those strategies where it pays to be ahead of the curve, when the likes of SVG were smugly pointing to the lack of success of the strategy.  Post-Astros that can't be said again.  And the 1-31 Browns are about to reap the fruits of outbadding the worst.

[Sparma]

Great season by UM. I'd be delighted if UM football could make it to the championship game any time soon (or even in my lifetime?!). Rumors floating about Jay Wright to the pros, maybe the Knicks. (also heard Stackhouse linked to the Knicks). Time for a change for us: I'd still get excited by a Billups/ Stackhouse combo.

Good point about a mean streak in Drummond being welcome, Murph; timing's still important (with the other team just having scored 7 straight), but we do want him to show some nastiness. He's really been finishing strong, especially with Griffin out. I've got my doubts about him but, dang, it's not often that an established player improves this much in a season: FTs, passing stats, consistency of effort up, joining league leaders among blocks, better D. If he really could develop a decent 8-10 shot, we'd really have an anchor, his flaws notwithstanding.

Sparma....I agree that it wasn’t smart for Drummond to let Acy goad him into a shoving match, so that they got tossed.   But I have mixed emotions about it.  In the past, Drummond has been a gentle giant, a big kid, as Oracle put it.  I liked the mean streak that Drummond displayed.  Maybe he’s finally growing up.  


Villanova just had too many weapons.  Their best player, Brunson was off his game.  But De Vincenzo, Bridges and Spellman picked up the slack.  I thought those four players, along with Michigan’s  Wagner can definitely play in the NBA, and should be late 1st rounders or early 2nd rounders when they come out.

[WTF]

Okay now that I've stop crying I can say what a Great! Great Season My Wolverines gave me.   I love this team to death everything Maze & Blue and I wouldn't be shocked if they're in the Final Four next year.  Hats of and congrats!

That kid on Nova really saved them I was thinking Michigan could pull this out and for a moment it looked that way.  

I wanted to be mad at all this Spartans and Buckeye fans in Arizona rooting against Michigan until I remember how much I root against them.  I do the same thing some times accept I do it quietly in silence.   I think this is the only time I do stuff like this most of the time it's Division, Conference like in the NBA I can never cheer for a West Coast Team beating an East Coast Team.   Man I cheer for whomever playing against the Spartans and Buckeyes and when they play each other I hate MSU so much I actually cheer for the Buckeyes.   

I would like to be to cheer for the Spartans but they're such asses that can't win gracefully and I hate hearing their mouths.  It was funny they were pumping fist and high 5's all over the place like they actually went to Nova.  Really if it was the Spartans against Nova as a Wolverine fan I just wouldn't have took the time and watched the game.  

Just know this Spartan and Buckeye Fans deep down you wish it was your school playing Monday

[Oracle]

Too bad the NCAA championship is not based on a best of 3 set up. I think the officials took a lot of juice out of the team in the first half disrupting the flow of the game and making some questionable calls against Michigan. The players started the game running their offense but too many players were off their game shooting the ball from distance. The game slipped away very quickly in the 2nd half with some hot shooting from their star player who comes off the bench. Will he declare for the draft now?

I am sure the returning Michigan players will use this game as motivation to do the hard work needed in the off season. This was a special Michigan team. Nobody expected much and the players surprised everyone with their heart and courage. Winning the conference championship means more than casual fans think. You need a lot of luck as well as skill to win the National Championship. Great job Michigan!

Don, the officiating in that game was nothing short of horrible. While it's not an excuse, they favored Nova in almost every situation, but that's life. In the end, Nova was simply the best team that night! A best of 3 would be nice, but I do like the win or go home format for youngsters like this.

This, IMO, is basketball at it's purest and finest. Win or lose, every team that made the final 4 achieved an amazing feat to get there, and I enjoyed every minute of it.

Villanova just had too many weapons. Their best player, Brunson was off his game. But De Vincenzo, Bridges and Spellman picked up the slack. I thought those four players, along with Michigan’s Wagner can definitely play in the NBA, and should be late 1st rounders or early 2nd rounders when they come out.

Murph, their main players were off because early in the game Michigan's defense was stellar, but the quality off the bench was just too much. De Vincenzo was amazing, I knew he had some chops, but what he did under the bright lights was a special performance.

I just wish our Pistons had somebody like that coming off the bench, dare I say it, a Vinnie "Microwave" Johnson. Lots of credit to Nova for the win, and great credit to the coaches who, IMO, could take SVG to the woodshed any day of the week!

[Murph]

Sparma....I agree that it wasn’t smart for Drummond to let Acy goad him into a shoving match, so that they got tossed.   But I have mixed emotions about it.  In the past, Drummond has been a gentle giant, a big kid, as Oracle put it.  I liked the mean streak that Drummond displayed.  Maybe he’s finally growing up.  


Villanova just had too many weapons.  Their best player, Brunson was off his game.  But De Vincenzo, Bridges and Spellman picked up the slack.  I thought those four players, along with Michigan’s  Wagner can definitely play in the NBA, and should be late 1st rounders or early 2nd rounders when they come out.

[cool breeze]

Too bad the NCAA championship is not based on a best of 3 set up. I think the officials took a lot of juice out of the team in the first half disrupting the flow of the game and making some questionable calls against Michigan. The players started the game running their offense but too many players were off their game shooting the ball from distance. The game slipped away very quickly in the 2nd half with some hot shooting from their star player who comes off the bench. Will he declare for the draft now?

I am sure the returning Michigan players will use this game as motivation to do the hard work needed in the off season. This was a special Michigan team. Nobody expected much and the players surprised everyone with their heart and courage. Winning the conference championship means more than casual fans think. You need a lot of luck as well as skill to win the National Championship. Great job Michigan!

[Oracle]

The experts agree, Villanova will win!!!

I think if I wasn't a Michigan fan, I might feel the same way, so pardon my possibly homer comments.

What the experts don't see: Defense is a HUGE wild card!!!

IMO, Michigan's defense is why they're there! They've shown the ability to defend so well that even when they can't score, they stay in games and find a way to win.

What I see: Michigan matches up very well with Villanova! Why? Well, if they defend, I think they can disrupt Villanova's offense in a way that Villanova can't do to theirs.

In short, Michigan can out score them, and if Michigan's offense gets going, this could be a blowout.

The thing I worry about is in a close game, the Wolverines don't shoot FT's very well, and that would be a killer.

My Pick: Michigan by 10

GO BLUE!!!

[Oracle]

Pistons: It's easy to do well when the pressure is off. I don't give 3 craps about them winning now, I've mostly lost interest, and that is remarkable!

I've watch when I knew they were going to lose damn near every game and enjoyed it, but not this season. Stan Van Gundy makes me SICK! I thought Joe was full of crap, but SVG is worse in a lot of ways.

Sadly, Sparma is likely right, his reward for winning meaningless games will give Gores the excuse he needs to let him finish out his contract, so we'll be treated to another season of lame ass excuses.

Moves will be difficult, but we have a lot of bums on this team as I've said before. 

1. Keep the big 3 because moving them will be hard, Reggie would be the easiest, but with little return.
2. Keep the youngsters Kennard, Ellenson and let Stanley prove himself in his 4th year
3. Keep Ish because he's a very good change of pace off the bench, and emergency starter
4. Everybody else is expendable, and even the above are if the right offer comes along.

What to expect next year?
1. I think Drummond finally realizes most of the potential we need to see from him, especially on the defensive end... he finally becomes a man instead of an overgrown kid.
2. Reggie finally regains his best form, having rested most of two seasons in a row
3. Blake will be Blake, no better, no worse
4. Ellenson BETTER get his full shot, Kennard gets better. While I don't see a massive improvement in Stanley, he should get better or he's gone.
5. Everything else depends on the supporting cast. No team contends for much without role players that can deliver

Finally, if they're going to succeed, it will have to be in spite of less than average coaching. If Gores had an ounce of basketball smarts in him, he'd see that this team needs a coaching change more than anything else. Even more than changing the supporting cast.

A coaching change will be disrupting, but by season start the kinks should be worked out.

[Sparma]

Drummond: with the Nets cutting the lead from 20 to 13, I don't think you can let that thug Acy get your goat. You're far more valuable to your team than he is.

Jarrett Allen looks like he's got a bright future.

Outstanding game from Stanley J. Still a guy with significant limitations, the biggest of which may be not recognizing his limitations (SJ: I'm a good shooter). He can be valuable though.

Kennard: Kelser mentioned that the Pistons may give him some PG experience in the summer league, and praised his passing. He'd become more valuable as a genuine combo guard, although I think his limited quick will keep him from being a go to PG routinely.

Dominant at PG!! 40+ points. I need to start giving more credit to Reggie J than I do.

And Ish Smith's been improving from distance. Kelser keeps mentioning that, and the recent numbers back him up. Reggie J in the background of an Ish interview: Ish works harder than anyone else on the team. That's how it's done: you improve in practice, then try it in the game.

Good win. SVG now a near inevitability as coach next year? Might not be the worst thing, although I've ceased being an SVG fan. It's his roster, and this is roughly the roster that will play out next year. I felt the team just wasn't responding to him a month ago, that they'd gotten sick of him, like the rest of us, but maybe not. I'd love for us to hire the next Brad Stevens, the next young Rick Carlyle, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards. One way or another, I can't see big changes coming until after next year, and even then it might be tough unless we just start shipping guys out like AD and Reggie J for less than full return.

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