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Dre

Post  lemonpen on Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:49 pm

Great debate regarding his All Star qualifications.
I believe he is woefully lacking. Almost no part of his game strikes fear in an opponent.
Andres greatest offensive weapon is the tip in.
Magic Johnson he ain't as a distributor.
His offense off of the point position is, shall we say 50/50. 50% chance of making a shot or getting fouled, and 50% chance the shot is blocked. Gotta admit I don't recall seeing a 7 footer get his mess packed as often ad Dre. Also you notice how he go's about as strong to the hoop off of those moves as he did on a jump hook. Always fading away.
Dude gets numbers as a rebounder, but I don't believe it's a secret that if on opponent is willing to work the door will be open, cause dude absolutely will not block out.

I don't see a heady guy either. For instance, you think you may ever see Dre pull a chair, drive into a defender who is slightly out of position, resist reaching, .......
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As Trade Deadline Approaches, Are Pistons Buyers or Sellers or Does It Even Matter

Post  BallinD on Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:28 pm

Great Question in the headline. Wait and See, but it depends if we are talking about being relevant again, or scuffling into the bottom seeds of the playoffs and buying SVG one more year of mediocrity.

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Hanging Jerseys

Post  WTF on Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:29 am

1Chauncey BillupsG2002–2008
2013–2014 1
February 10, 2016[250]
2Chuck DalyHead coach 21983–1992January 25, 1997[251]
3Ben WallaceC2000–2006
2009–2012 3
January 16, 2016[252]
4Joe DumarsG1985–1999 4March 10, 2000[251]
10Dennis RodmanF1986–1993 5April 1, 2011[251]
11Isiah ThomasG1981–1994February 17, 1996[251]
15Vinnie JohnsonG1981–1991February 5, 1994[251]
16Bob LanierC1970–1980January 9, 1993[251]
21Dave BingG1966–1975March 18, 1983[251]
32Richard HamiltonG/F2002–2011February 26, 2017[253]
40Bill LaimbeerC1982–1994February 4, 1995[251]
Bill DavidsonTeam owner1974–2009 6December 28, 2011[254]
Jack McCloskeyGeneral manager1979–1992 7March 29, 2008[255]
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AD Still In The Potential Faze 6 Years In

Post  WTF on Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:18 am

Sparma wrote:At the same time, I don't think he wins games for you.

There is so much written in this comment alone that says he might not ever be an of AS Quality or even an HOF'er but I won't lock in any of my doubts as definitive still early.   We often see players grossly misused in the NBA more times than I care to mention with this team we haven't a real coach in long time that knew how to use the talent we had since Flip.

I think AD would be a lot better under the right coach and system, I say this similar thing about several players over the pass 7 or 8 seasons especially with many of our draft picks during that time.  

@Sparma, I say it all the time that AD doesn't impact the game as one would hope, he doesn't win games for you though he'll compile a ton of stats.  I can't think of a current HOF'er that didn't win games or impacted a game.  There are a lot of players with numbers that don't make it.

IMHO I think AD has peaked and this is what we're going to get and this isn't a bad thing we just need a coach that can make it work in a manner that it does impact games and get us wins.   A lot of has to do with AD as well because he has to be more engaged and put himself in big moments so that he is the difference maker.   He has to want that block that seals the deal,  or that big rebound at the end of a game that leads to victory, I can think of many moments over history where we witnessed some great moments.
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Confused post about AD

Post  Sparma on Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:10 pm

I think AD's really good, in fact I think he will make the All-Star game this year, and maybe the HoF some day. At the same time, I don't think he wins games for you. Doesn't make sense. Reggie J wins games for you (but also loses them). Tobias wins games for you, and other times just doesn't contribute to winning. I think Boban could win games for you too, could be a difference maker. A guy with Dre's stats has got to be helping you win, but I don't really see him as a major difference maker either on O or D. Maybe sometimes as offensive rebounder. He'd be a great second, or especially third option, say on Cleveland, but I don't think he can be THE guy because of what I'm attempting to describe.
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Drummond

Post  Oracle on Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:39 pm

WTF wrote:
lemonpen wrote:Is Andre really All Star quality.  Or is most of his offensive game a product of the clever system within which Stan has him(I can't believe you said that Smile ).   How successful could Dre be elsewhere.

If I was a betting man I would say he will be excluded from the AS Game again.   IMHO AD is a good piece to have but I don't think he's All Star Quality and I say that because again he doesn't impact the games as he should.  I said in a previous posting that if he was half as motivated as Big Ben was that AD could easily average damn near a trip double.  He's simply not motivated to dominate the paint.  

After making the AS Game 2 seasons ago he should have been off and running but he missed making last season and it looks like he'll miss it again this year even if his numbers are slightly better the Eye Test say's he hasn't improved much while others seem to have gotten better.
Wise I agree that Drummond won't and at this point, IMO, shouldn't be an all star. However let me address what Lemonpen is saying.

1. Is he all star quality? No, but a recent analysis on NBATV noted that he was the MOST likely of any Piston to get there. If that doesn't send a stunning chill through this forum, we're likely dead.

2. SVG has done what I and others were calling for since Drummond became a starter. His post game is poor, but an athletic big man with great speed needs to be further away from the basket to utilize that talent. Credit SVG for waking up, but it did take awhile.

3. How successful elsewhere? Hard to say, but my guess is that better coaching could do wonders. Unfortunately, it's rare for a player to get traded and be successful unless he is one of the primary focuses of the new team, which Drummond would likely be, so his chances are better than most.

Finally, the fact that Bradley is spiraling down, with no hope of ever being an all star, Harris being so up and down, he's in the same boat, a clear picture of who this team really is should be visible to everyone.

I said at the start of the season that our only two star possible players were Reggie and Drummond, and that if they didn't stay healthy and productive that this Piston team is a team in search of a Reggie & Drummond.

I caught a lot of flack as the Bradley delusion was in full effect and he was the all star in waiting that would lead us to the promised land.

To be honest, I just wish SVG had half the coaching talent of Carlisle, or Flip, and one tenth that of LB or Chuck!

If SVG would just look at the defense Flip employed that extended the careers of Ben & Sheed(modified zone), it could transform this team from a one on one defense to a powerful team oriented defense. Stop trying to put Bradley on the opposing teams best player and focus on stopping all of them by disrupting the offense... oh well I'm wasting my time!

EDIT: Watching NBATV, they just said that the #1 defensive team in the NBA is Boston. Yes, that team that dumped Bradley! More proof that Don will never understand that defense is a scheme, it's not invested in a single individual. Brad Stevens is a very good coach!
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AS Quality? Nope

Post  WTF on Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:00 pm

lemonpen wrote:Is Andre really All Star quality.  Or is most of his offensive game a product of the clever system within which Stan has him.   How successful could Dre be elsewhere.

If I was a betting man I would say he will be excluded from the AS Game again.   IMHO AD is a good piece to have but I don't think he's All Star Quality and I say that because again he doesn't impact the games as he should.  I said in a previous posting that if he was half as motivated as Big Ben was that AD could easily average damn near a trip double.  He's simply not motivated to dominate the paint.  

After making the AS Game 2 seasons ago he should have been off and running but he missed making last season and it looks like he'll miss it again this year even if his numbers are slightly better the Eye Test say's he hasn't improved much while others seem to have gotten better.
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CTFU!!!!!

Post  WTF on Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:48 pm

Oracle wrote:After feeling hope that...

1. Bradley had turned the corner, I now see that he can't shoot for sh!t, can't defend the best player on any team, will never be all star material, and is an all around loser!

2. Stanley Johnson would become a star, I now see that he may never play another NBA game. If a player can't overcome minor injury, he obviously doesn't love his team or respect the uniform.

Yes, I concluded all of this after one game, but that's what the cool kids are doing these days!

 I wanna be a cool kid  lol
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I'm afraid to run the numbers, but...

Post  Oracle on Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:40 pm

If someone did, I wonder what the Pistons Injury status looks like...

Before Arnie was Fired, and

After Arnie was Fired

I was thinking that SVG was just unlucky, but now I see he's just plain stupid... nothing was broken, why was he trying to fix it?
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Sadly...

Post  Oracle on Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:30 pm

After feeling hope that...

1. Bradley had turned the corner, I now see that he can't shoot for sh!t, can't defend the best player on any team, will never be all star material, and is an all around loser!

2. Stanley Johnson would become a star, I now see that he may never play another NBA game. If a player can't overcome minor injury, he obviously doesn't love his team or respect the uniform.

Yes, I concluded all of this after one game, but that's what the cool kids are doing these days!
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Message to Murph

Post  cool breeze on Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:52 pm

I will never forget how sure you were that Kemba Walker should be the Pistons number on pick in his draft year. I wasn't sold on that idea only because of his size. He and Lamb beat the Arizona Wildcats in the Elite 8 game where Walker was unstoppable in the 2nd half. He has been doing the same thing since. I should trust your judgment more Murph. You were on the money with Walker. Nobody listened.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:49 pm

lemonpen wrote:Is Andre really All Star quality.  Or is most of his offensive game a product of the clever system within which Stan has him.   How successful could Dre be elsewhere.

After feeling hope that AD might be turning the corner as an NBA pro, he was beaten in every way possible in this game. Much of it had to do with lack of mental engagement. It was Tolliver who came over to provide paint protection and blocking shots. AD was nowhere to be seen looking much like a rookie on defense. So I would say that AD would not be very successful and for sure should not command the type of money is is making. That is my gripe relating to AD. He has not earned that big contract. He is not a franchise player. But what can we do? We have to hope a miracle can occur and AD becomes an enlightened and driven pro basketball player for as long as we have him. That goes for all of the other players who stunk it up in this game. The only player who looked ready to play this game was Tolliver. Great job on his part. Too loses in a row to inferior NBA teams and this one was at home. Sometimes it is difficult to get ready for early games. But the Hornets sure were motivated. Lots of empty seats again.

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Andre

Post  lemonpen on Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:56 pm

Is Andre really All Star quality. Or is most of his offensive game a product of the clever system within which Stan has him. How successful could Dre be elsewhere.
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Ish

Post  lemonpen on Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:50 pm

Someone has to talk to Mr. Stop Gap. His self control is beginning to wane. I want him to drive every time the opportunity to get all the way to the rim presents itself. But this recent thing of driving into traffic with only a plan to "improvise when you get there" is bugging me to death.

How about we just run-the-play a little more often.
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Ugly Game

Post  lemonpen on Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:41 pm

Stan could have done more to help his team.  Folks in the audience figured it out why couldn't Stan.

After Dre picked up his 4th foul everything changed.  The bank was open.  What does it say when Tolly becomes your rim protector.  When in position to affect a shot Dre backed off time and time again, preserving his foul status and allowing the layup.  
Moreland had already proved to be tissue paper against Howard, so where was Boban.  Even if pushed you can't tell me Bobans' height/length would not have disrupted DH's shots.  Lord knows Howard would have been challenged to reached MB 's shots unlike the picnic he had smothering Dre's delectable hoists.

Then, how the f did Stan allow a deficit to reach 18 without callin a TO.  When it was at 8 you  could see we were flat, and doing dumb stuff after getting stops.  Once the stops stopped the deficit blew up fast.

A good coach woulda done a better job of keeping his team in it.


Last edited by lemonpen on Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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FORUM

Post  WTF on Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:56 am

Would have been nice and a say "been" if we had both Walker and Mirotic.  Might be possible to land one of them still likely Mirotic but having both could of had us tinkering on a thin line from being close to next level.

There was interest in Reggie before the season started and I all but knew he was gone before it started. SGV screwed up somewhere that it didn't happen I think deep down SVG has issue with being proven wrong so he's going to beat this Reggie horse to it's last breath.

By the end of the month my 39 win prediction could look very real.
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Re: FORUM

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