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Cavs

Post  Murph on Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:50 am

The Cavs look as if they're about done. Even if they somehow slip by the Pacers in the first round they aren't going anywhere. And the odds of Lebron returning to Cleveland for another year of torture nest year is very low. Lebron is going to opt out of his contract, and bolt for greener pastures, such as LA...guaranteed.

With that in mind, the Cavs are going to want to shed bad contracts in the off season.

Would anyone trade Ish, SJ or Ellenson, and our trade exemption for George Hill? The Cavs might just bite on a trade offer like that, in order to dump Hill's contract.

Hill could start, which would allow the Pistons to bring Reggie off the bench, and Hill plays decent defense, moves the ball, and can shoot from outside.

And this would allow Reggie to play like 20 minutes a night off the bench through the regular season, which would make him well rested and hopefully healthy for the playoffs. And coming off the bench might suit Reggie's and the Pistons style of play better. Reggie could improvise, score and take over the game to his hearts content coming off the bench, and playing against opponents second unity.
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Moreland

Post  Murph on Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:30 am

Don...Eric Moreland is the rare player that we agree on.  Moreland has outstanding advanced stats.  Per 100 possessions, he is ranked 2nd only to Drummond for his defense.  

And not only that, when he's in the game, he facilitates the offense, probably through his screens, passing and high basketball IQ.  Moreland is ranked 4th on the team for his offense, behind only Tolliver, Bullock and Drummond.

The net result is that the Pistons outscore their opponents by a lot, when Moreland is in the game.  And that is true of only 5 Pistons...again Tolliver, Drummond, Moreland, Bullock and Ennis, in that order.  

Not only that, Moreland is paid the ridiculously low salary of $1.7 million a year this year, and only $5.5 million for 3 years, ending in 2020.  The Pistons should never, ever trade Moreland.


The one and only thing Stan Van Gundy does well is find under-paid hidden gems that other teams have over-looked.  SVG not only found and signed Moreland on the cheap, but Bullock, Tolliver and Buycks fall into that category also.
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Suggest all posters who laughed at me when I suggested Eric Moreland had potential read the article to the right

Post  cool breeze on Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:19 pm

Eric Moreland was the odd guy out when everyone was suggesting that Boban was a good pickup after Baynes went to Boston. Baynes has been starting now for the Celtics. I had mixed feeling but sure respected how hard he played. Moreland was the bright spot in the summer league games along with Kennard. SVG did something right along with Bower who I see worked extra hours to help Eric improve his free throw shooting.

The article to the right finally described the player I often saw this past season. He is athletic and smart in most games although he sure picked up more than his share of fouls. Officials sure didn't respect him much because he was hammered often and never got many calls. But if any of you bothered to watch the last game against Chicago then you should agree that Moreland has great potential. I hope he gains 15 to 20 pounds of muscle before fall and is able to keep his quickness. Going over the stats again in care nobody reads the article Eric Moreland had a great last game. He scored 16 points as the Pistons starter. He also got credit for 17 rebounds ( I counted 21) along with 4 assists, 4 steals and 4 blocked shots. I think Moreland biggest strength is his abilities as a help defender and his quick recognition skill set as a defender. Jeff Bower gets big credit for signing Moreland but next year his contract is not guaranteed. With the Big Three sucking all the money from the franchise, the Pistons need to get lucky with guys like Eric Moreland. Great job Eric. Looks like AD really likes this guy so perhaps he will come back with the Pistons and play like Ben Wallace.

Big Ben was kicked around the league a lot until he found that 4th gear relating to effort. Ben Wallace played close to black out at times for the Pistons. Few have given such effort with the exception of Dennis Rodman who had the freak motor. Some of us rag on RJ but Reggie was not born with that freak motor unfortunately. He is trying as hard as he can to find energy so he can compete on the defensive end but his body will not cooperate. I think the will is there regarding Reggie Jackson but there are so many top tier NBA guards who have that special motor that our guys were not born with which separates them from those who come out on top in games. Zeke had that gift that is often overlooked. He could turn it up when he needed it most. So many fantastic memories of watching the Pistons when they ruled the planet. Thinking of Mitchell, is there any doubt about his motor? That guy never runs out of gas. So sad the Pistons didn't draft him. But could Kennard become a starter at point guard next year if Reggie's body fails? Piston management has talked about it. Maybe Luke will play in the Summer League.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:16 pm

Oracle wrote:Kennard is good, but Mitchell is GREAT! In the article, "Donovan Mitchell in company with Jordan, Kareem after Jazz's Game 2 win", there is a video of him taking the Thunder apart, this kid is special, normal rookies don't do stuff like this. However, if we had taken him, SVG would have screwed him up, and I'd likely be saying we should have taken Kennard as he blew up on a team with a normal coach.
http://www.mlive.com/sports/2018/04/donovan_mitchell_in_company_wi.html wrote:Donovan Mitchell might not even be the NBA's Rookie of the Year, but he put the finishing touches on a playoff win Wednesday night against some of the league's biggest stars.

And earned himself a piece of history, too.

Mitchell's full-speed, spin move floater over Paul George helped ice Utah's 102-95 win over the Oklahoma City Thunder, evening the series at 1-1.

With 28 points, Mitchell ...

• Passed Michael Jordan for the most points by any rookie guard in his first two playoff games, according to the Elias Sports Bureau. Mitchell had 27 in Game 1.

• Joined Kareem Abdul-Jabbar as the only rookies to score at least 27 points in their first two playoff games.
That's pretty nice company.

Mitchell was a no brainer for any team who had the Piston's pick last season. But Piston ownership, SVG and maybe consultant Andre Drummond would not draft a point guard to compete with either Jackson or Smith for playing time. This is just more proof that this organization is not serious about winning. Mitchell would have beaten out both Piston guards in training camp if they had an objective head coach. But then say if Brad Stevens had been that new coach, most likely Tom Gores would have fired Brad if he dared to start Mitchell over the "Chosen" players. Facts do not count. Game film does not count. But Mitchell and Smith combination might have been very difficult for the opposition to handle. Mitchell was identified early on before the draft as a sure thing. The Pistons passed. We know why. That is why I cannot watch them next season without losing my sanity.

Everything is a soap opera relating to the Pistons and their story line is so dull and lame that I had to come to terms that I was an idiot to have wasted my time watching them last season. Some of us recorded every game looking for something positive but removing the brief time we saw certain players execute the motion offense properly which wasn't often, this team played with the same style and dysfunction as the Piston team a season before. This team wasn't blown out in the first quarter and third quarter as much but their basketball IQ looked much the same to me at least. As long as this owner is in charge, the Pistons might only be known for their half time entertainment.Tom Gores is great relating to providing half time entertainment. He beats every other owner in that category. Next season perhaps opposing teams will be so confident of victory that they will go out and watch the dancing babes at halftime instead of resting in the locker room enduring a skull session involving adjustments. No adjustments will be needed. A space can be cleared for the opposing team to sit close to the floor too being the arena will be only half full. Every playoff team will kick the Pistons asses with the exception of teams that are playing the 2nd of back to back games or finishing a long road trip. Those games are built into the schedule to help inept teams like the Pistons. If only the Pistons could have completely flopped and finished in the basement after making that Blake Griffin trade. Then the fur might fly and the Detroit sports reporters might write an honest article and question why Detroit gave up their number one pick in that Clipper trade. It made no sense. After the Clippers lost their All Star point guard it was time to rebuild. Detroit held all the good cards before that trade but somehow didn't know it. The Clippers wanted to remove Griffin's salary at almost any cost. Clipper management must have had a good laugh after that trade maybe like the Bucks ownership when Joe Dumars gave away Middleton. Now most likely our Pistons will dwell in no mans land maybe drafting from 7th to 12th position for several years with no number on pick this summer. Reggie instead of Mitchell will be limping around until his contract expires. No team wants the Reggie Jackson contract so the team will ride it out with Reggie until his contract expires. Since Mr. BigShot was traded it is clear that whoever was making decisions at the top destroyed any small chance of creating a competitive NBA team. Blunder after blunder has led the Pistons to this point in time where only smoke and mirrors might work on any remaining fans to get them to follow this team.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:32 pm

deusXango wrote:In the land of professional sports, numbers matter. Contracts (in most cities) are based on numbers, as they reflect player performance. Payroll numbers matter; are we getting comparable bang for our buck? Win totals...are they enough to satisfy a fan base and the merchandisers who're dependent on a teams success (everybody deserves to eat).

Stan Van Gundy was given 5 years to turn the Pistons around but, he's so talented that he did it in 4....he's flopped totally in the numbers game and turned the Pistons in the wrong direction! Different discontented players doesn't necessarily mean the talent is better, particularly if they're over-paid across the board. Is this team performing better under SVG's leadership, after 4 years, than it was 5 years ago? Were we in CAP hell? Do we have any viable trade chips? Are jerseys selling like hot cakes? Team caps? Joe Dumars had clearly lost his mind and was throwing the boss (Karen Davidson) under the bus for all his shortcomings, whereas, Stan Van Gundy is busy sucking Tom Gores ass to buy time to sell fans on this cockamamie theory of a Big 3 running a 4 out 1 in offense, led by Reggie Jackson, and Andre Drummond...Blake Griffin is a complimentary piece, albeit the highest paid and hardest contract to move.

The point is; why are there so many 3rd tier players and D-Leaguers commanding the salaries they do when Reggie Bullock, and Anthony Tolliver played for peanuts? The talk was about trading Avery Bradley before the trade deadline (most fans didn't like his game), so how did Tobias Harris and our needed 1st round draft pick get caught up in the trade machine? We're stuck with RJ and Leuer, but couldn't Stanley Johnson, Henry "I Ain't Gonna Play Him" Ellenson, and Bradley brought improved value to the team and preserved our pick and Harris at the same time? The point is; it's madness to bring SVG back for the 5th year, in any capacity. He won't complete his contract leading this franchise to a winning record; anything short of an ECF, which is highly improbable, is a waste of developmental time for the front office and bench if the Pistons hope to turn this in the right direction. Lovers and protectors of Drummond, R Jackson, and Leuer must go so that #1. the payroll can come into reasonable focus #2. with a healthy Jackson and Leuer their trade value will be higher than it's been in a couple of years (we'll never get comparable value for those guys so the dream should come to an end) and Drummond may well put us back into contention, if the trade is fruitful and not foolish....Grant Hill brought us Ben Wallace, so it's possible and practical to explore #3 hopefully Tom Gores will have learned his lesson about who he's going into partnership with for his pro team; SVG came in fixing sh!t that wasn't broken, spending money like a drunken sailor, and mired this team and its fans in a state of hopeless doom and gloom. Get someone who's more than a 21st century snake oil huckster but, an innovative thinker.

Outstanding job on your post dX. Thank you!

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Get Some DNA In Here

Post  WTF on Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:56 am

The coach doesn't have Pistons DNA so how in the hell will the players ever have it?  Hell Gores doesn't even have Pistons DNA he was likely more of a Lakers Fan than he ever was a Pistons Fan.   

We might be stuck with the owner but damn if we can't get some Pistons DNA up in here by digging back in our history and getting former players to run this team.   I swear if I had the power to make it happen  Zeke, Bill, CB, Tayshaun, and both Wallace's would all here in some capacity running things
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Quiet As A Church Mouse Pissing On A Cotton Ball

Post  BallinD on Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:52 pm

All Quiet in Pistonland.  No word on the Elephant in the room, SVG.  We are left with bated breath wishing, hoping, gnashing of teeth and spewing expletives as one of the best and most competitive playoff years I can remember gets underway.  Watching Miami and Philly, wow, hard not to like that Philly team with Simmons looking like a more athletic young Magic Johnson.  Playoffs are amazing, with Indiana staring down the Giant and GS and Spurs fighting like two cats in a cage, WWE style.  Rekindles my love of hoops and almost makes me forget our lowly Pistons.
Hope: @ Sparma, @ DX, @Oracle, @WTF, @Sparma, @BallinD.  We hope SVG is gone; Weggie is gone, Stanimal learns to shoot, Dre continues to develop and adds a face-up shot; Blake shoots  37% from three.
Anger: @Ballin, @WTF; @DX, @Oracle. Hate the way the Pistons play, boring, lazy, fail to move the ball like most modern teams do, run so much Iso and so it goes.  No creativity; coaching not to lose, rather than let's try to win.

Sparma wrote:I hope that SVG has someone, somewhere, advancing more of defense of him than I have.  After all, I'm hoping that he gets fired (but will also hope for the best if he doesn't), and think he's done a poor job in many respects, including in falling short of the major goal of building a contender (or easy playoff team as SVG now puts it) while rebuilding.  My own coaching experience enters in just in that it adds to my conviction that coaching involves a complex set of interactions and challenges, with give and take comparable to many other areas of life which call for leadership (post-1965 at least, and this side of North Korea, and some football fields).  I'd infer that that's so not just at the Y level, but also in the NBA.  Having gone round and round on this, I'm pretty sure we all know where we stand.

Hadn't Gores indicated he'd talk things through with SVG this week?  The week's about up.  That conversation will give us fresh stuff to debate.  Do it already, Tom!

WTF wrote:Sparma I do think IMO that you're over evaluating this coach management thing.  Of course you're coach defending coaches but my question to you Have you ever looked at another coach and thought what a clown?   

We're in the midst of Clownsville here in Pistons land and it's not even logical to defend coaching and management right now.  If there was ever a time that a organization and coaching staff was ever fully to blame for a team state of being it's clear SVG and Gores that should get the blame.  But SVG more so than Gores should get the tattoo of blame inked on his forehead for all to see.

It wasn't the improvising of players or lack of but SVG.   Now the only question is which SVG is more to blame SVG the coach or SVG the president but no matter when you add that **** up it's still a 100% on SVG.
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What's The Point?

Post  deusXango on Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:33 pm

In the land of professional sports, numbers matter. Contracts (in most cities) are based on numbers, as they reflect player performance. Payroll numbers matter; are we getting comparable bang for our buck? Win totals...are they enough to satisfy a fan base and the merchandisers who're dependent on a teams success (everybody deserves to eat).

Stan Van Gundy was given 5 years to turn the Pistons around but, he's so talented that he did it in 4....he's flopped totally in the numbers game and turned the Pistons in the wrong direction! Different discontented players doesn't necessarily mean the talent is better, particularly if they're over-paid across the board. Is this team performing better under SVG's leadership, after 4 years, than it was 5 years ago? Were we in CAP hell? Do we have any viable trade chips? Are jerseys selling like hot cakes? Team caps? Joe Dumars had clearly lost his mind and was throwing the boss (Karen Davidson) under the bus for all his shortcomings, whereas, Stan Van Gundy is busy sucking Tom Gores ass to buy time to sell fans on this cockamamie theory of a Big 3 running a 4 out 1 in offense, led by Reggie Jackson, and Andre Drummond...Blake Griffin is a complimentary piece, albeit the highest paid and hardest contract to move.

The point is; why are there so many 3rd tier players and D-Leaguers commanding the salaries they do when Reggie Bullock, and Anthony Tolliver played for peanuts? The talk was about trading Avery Bradley before the trade deadline (most fans didn't like his game), so how did Tobias Harris and our needed 1st round draft pick get caught up in the trade machine? We're stuck with RJ and Leuer, but couldn't Stanley Johnson, Henry "I Ain't Gonna Play Him" Ellenson, and Bradley brought improved value to the team and preserved our pick and Harris at the same time? The point is; it's madness to bring SVG back for the 5th year, in any capacity. He won't complete his contract leading this franchise to a winning record; anything short of an ECF, which is highly improbable, is a waste of developmental time for the front office and bench if the Pistons hope to turn this in the right direction. Lovers and protectors of Drummond, R Jackson, and Leuer must go so that #1. the payroll can come into reasonable focus #2. with a healthy Jackson and Leuer their trade value will be higher than it's been in a couple of years (we'll never get comparable value for those guys so the dream should come to an end) and Drummond may well put us back into contention, if the trade is fruitful and not foolish....Grant Hill brought us Ben Wallace, so it's possible and practical to explore #3 hopefully Tom Gores will have learned his lesson about who he's going into partnership with for his pro team; SVG came in fixing sh!t that wasn't broken, spending money like a drunken sailor, and mired this team and its fans in a state of hopeless doom and gloom. Get someone who's more than a 21st century snake oil huckster but, an innovative thinker.
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SVG

Post  Sparma on Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:32 pm

I hope that SVG has someone, somewhere, advancing more of defense of him than I have. After all, I'm hoping that he gets fired (but will also hope for the best if he doesn't), and think he's done a poor job in many respects, including in falling short of the major goal of building a contender (or easy playoff team as SVG now puts it) while rebuilding. My own coaching experience enters in just in that it adds to my conviction that coaching involves a complex set of interactions and challenges, with give and take comparable to many other areas of life which call for leadership (post-1965 at least, and this side of North Korea, and some football fields). I'd infer that that's so not just at the Y level, but also in the NBA. Having gone round and round on this, I'm pretty sure we all know where we stand.

Hadn't Gores indicated he'd talk things through with SVG this week? The week's about up. That conversation will give us fresh stuff to debate. Do it already, Tom!

WTF wrote:Sparma I do think IMO that you're over evaluating this coach management thing.  Of course you're coach defending coaches but my question to you Have you ever looked at another coach and thought what a clown?   

We're in the midst of Clownsville here in Pistons land and it's not even logical to defend coaching and management right now.  If there was ever a time that a organization and coaching staff was ever fully to blame for a team state of being it's clear SVG and Gores that should get the blame.  But SVG more so than Gores should get the tattoo of blame inked on his forehead for all to see.

It wasn't the improvising of players or lack of but SVG.   Now the only question is which SVG is more to blame SVG the coach or SVG the president but no matter when you add that **** up it's still a 100% on SVG.
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I really wanted us to take Mitchell...

Post  Oracle on Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:46 pm

Kennard is good, but Mitchell is GREAT! In the article, "Donovan Mitchell in company with Jordan, Kareem after Jazz's Game 2 win", there is a video of him taking the Thunder apart, this kid is special, normal rookies don't do stuff like this. However, if we had taken him, SVG would have screwed him up, and I'd likely be saying we should have taken Kennard as he blew up on a team with a normal coach.
http://www.mlive.com/sports/2018/04/donovan_mitchell_in_company_wi.html wrote:Donovan Mitchell might not even be the NBA's Rookie of the Year, but he put the finishing touches on a playoff win Wednesday night against some of the league's biggest stars.

And earned himself a piece of history, too.

Mitchell's full-speed, spin move floater over Paul George helped ice Utah's 102-95 win over the Oklahoma City Thunder, evening the series at 1-1.

With 28 points, Mitchell ...

• Passed Michael Jordan for the most points by any rookie guard in his first two playoff games, according to the Elias Sports Bureau. Mitchell had 27 in Game 1.

• Joined Kareem Abdul-Jabbar as the only rookies to score at least 27 points in their first two playoff games.
That's pretty nice company.
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100%

Post  WTF on Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:16 am

Sparma I do think IMO that you're over evaluating this coach management thing.  Of course you're coach defending coaches but my question to you Have you ever looked at another coach and thought what a clown?   

We're in the midst of Clownsville here in Pistons land and it's not even logical to defend coaching and management right now.  If there was ever a time that a organization and coaching staff was ever fully to blame for a team state of being it's clear SVG and Gores that should get the blame.  But SVG more so than Gores should get the tattoo of blame inked on his forehead for all to see.

It wasn't the improvising of players or lack of but SVG.   Now the only question is which SVG is more to blame SVG the coach or SVG the president but no matter when you add that **** up it's still a 100% on SVG.
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Sparma: It's complicated! No it's not!

Post  Oracle on Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:28 am

There is absolutely no question about what I'm saying, you're over thinking this.

Coaches and management determine what's allowed... PERIOD!

A player can try anything they want, but if management or coaching doesn't like it... end of story!

There's no gray area anywhere in there, your attempts at examples only show that when allowed, players can and do contribute valuable input into the process, but only when allowed.

If your argument is that a smart team would always seek input from good players, then I totally agree, but again, it's because they allow it.
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It's complicated

Post  Sparma on Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:54 pm

Just to be clear: I think that there's plenty of unilateral coaching, especially in football (which I've never played in an organized way).

Plenty of exceptions too.

Oracle says what I claim is "ONLY true if the coach and management allows it."

I'm not sure I follow, because this could mean a few different things. If you're saying that the coach could bench a player or management could trade a player, I'd agree to that extent, although even that can cease to be a realistic option at times. What I'm hearing, maybe incorrectly, fits the football example where coaches unilaterally decide many of the plays, but make allowance for the QB to make adjustments depending on his reads at the line of scrimmage.

I assert that athletes can and have significantly shape tactics and strategy. I'll add that at times that happens in spite of coaching and management resistance.

I'll venture some examples beyond basketball, then home in on basketball.

My recollection of Ali's "rope-a-dope" strategy v Foreman was he initiated it, in spite of his team screaming at him to get off of the ropes as he was getting pummeled in the first couple of rounds. That went down as a piece of strategic genius, opposed initially by Ali's team.

In soccer, Johan Cruijff initiated his famous turn (which is still being taught to Y kids today!) in spite of his coach (Rinus Michels, later named coach of the century) opposing it due to well-grounded fear of injury. Maybe that one doesn't rise to the level of strategy, but it is an example of a player directly going up against the coach, with success. Cruijff, from what I know, initiated a strategy in the 1974 WC Finals which didn't work, namely retreating farther and farther from goal (a brilliant action by him had led to a 1st minute goal on a penalty) trying to get away from an inferior player (Berti Vogts) with superior conditioning. That's a player initiated strategy, opposed by the coach as I remember subsequent accounts, that may well have helped cost the Dutch a chance at the championship. Michels could have benched Cruijff, I suppose, so that in that sense he allowed it, but he didn't truly have that option.

In basketball, there are multiple stories of tugs of war between coach and player, e.g., Phil struggling to get the young and great Jordan to buy into team play a bit more, Phil and Kobe at times (like the 2004 Finals!), D'Antoni and Carmelo (Jeremy Lin actualized D'Antoni's strategy for a couple of weeks), and Phil, in management, complaining about Carmelo holding the ball, contrary to his Triangular wishes. In The Last Season, Phil's quite disparaging about Kobe, and it's remarkable that they could still work together later.

(Not sure what allow would mean substantively in such cases, beyond put up certain things that you don't like because it's outweighed by things you do. Maybe that's all you mean.)

In more recent examples, it's hard to know what's going on, not being privy to behind the scenes stuff. For instance, I know SVG likes (effective) 3 point shooting, but I can't imagine him being enthusiastic about a guy shooting more 3s than ever while also shooting them worse than ever (Stanley J). He put up with that because earned time, largely with his defensive work. (I understand that's a debatable example given SVG's call for 3s & not knowing what he's saying to Stanley J privately).

As with a manager and real life teams in business or education, there's some give and take, some effect of human foibles, some possibility of creativity from the bottom up. As in the rest of life beyond basketball (maybe excepting football), it's complicated.

(Even in football, I remember the example of the great, but aging, Alan Page deciding to drop a bunch of weight, contrary to the wishes of management. That's not a player initiating strategy directly, but it's an example of a player doing something that he thought would make him a better player late in his career, contrary to management wishes, something with an impact on how the Vikings played.)





Oracle wrote:
Sparma wrote:Good to hear Rasheed being interviewed.  I gather that he has a show with Kevin Garnett.

Something that I find obvious, partly on the basis of having been coached and having been a coach, is that there's not simply a unilateral relationship between coach and players, as there is with a chess player moving wooden pieces.  Evidently not everyone agrees.  Small examples are ready at hand: a baseball player ignored a take sign, or running through a stop sign at 3rd base.  And we might agree on some big examples, like Jordan saying he'd go along with the triangle, but then take over at the end.  Or LeBron's role in shaping the team's playing style.

Rasheed provided a big example of a player (him) shaping the play, the tactics, on the floor.  Bomani Jones tried to compliment him as being the first shooting big man.  Sheed disagreed, saying that Cliff Robinson and Derrick Coleman not only provided models, but took him aside as his career progressed and encouraged him to shoot more from the outside.  Sheed did go back farther in time to a coach (Dunleavey?) having him play SF for a while, and asking him to shoot more from the outside.  But Sheed's imprint on the game (and he mentioned not want to mix it up underneath every play and risk injury) the development of the shooting PF came from player initiative, rather than being dictated by coaching.

I've been convinced that coaches and players both exercise influence on tactics, rather than those simply being dictated by the coach.  Sheed provided a striking example.
What you say is ONLY true if the coach and management allows it!

Big difference, coaches have the influence and choice, players don't! I do agree it's a complex mix, but the rules of engagement are crystal clear.

Somebody needs to pass that information to Don, because if you have the DNA, but get denied from showing how much of it you have, well, that's how you get the Stanley Johnson's, Luke Kennard's, Henry Ellison's and a whole host of players that get stiffed by horrible coaching. But then again, Don believes these guys don't have that DNA.
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Don...

Post  Oracle on Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:14 pm

Don wrote:Sorry Murph. I didn't read your post clearly. I am the fool and stand corrected. My memories from watching our dysfunctional Piston team for too long has caused so much bitterness within me that I cannot write much without an angry tone.
.....
All of my close friends who used to be Piston fans haven't followed the Pistons since Knight and Middleton were traded to the Bucks for Brandon Jennings.
Don, that's a refreshingly honest admission, and greatly appreciated.

It explains a lot and it's totally understandable. I too almost lost it when that trade went down, it made so little sense to me to give up on such young talent.

For me that was just the start of more silly moves that I thought would end with SVG, but the dysfunction continues. BTW, I was on the record as skeptical of the Josh Smith move as well.

I hope you don't let that anger stop you from having hope. This team is in trouble and needs fans like you to stand by it and demand better, your voice may be more important that you think right now.

Anyway, thanks for explaining your feelings, I think we can all respect that, I know I do!
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:58 pm

Murph wrote:So Don, your theory is that Drummond is calling the shots?  Drummond calls Gores on how to run the offense, who then calls Van Gundy?  That's your theory?

Now I like Andre, both as a player and a person.  He's good natured, and the rare NBA star who doesn't have a scowl on his face all the time.   Drummond is a great guy, but he obviously isn't the brightest bulb on the porch.  You are giving him way too much credit.


And second, you wrote:

"What is ever more funny is Murph's post today about AD and his defense. Murph either has never played on an organized team in his life or he has never really watched many Piston games even this season where during certain moments of games AD actually did show some interest in playing defense. If Moreland had AD's body he would be a defensive monster."

I just stated in my post that I have never played an organized game of basketball in my life.  I could not have been more clear.  

And I didn't write it.  I copied and pasted it from an article by Joseph Sinke on the news feed.  Again, I could not have been more clear about that.

And the point is, Moreland doesn't have Drummond's body, Drummond does.



Drummond Derangement Syndrome is real, and Don suffers from it.

Sorry Murph. I didn't read your post clearly. I am the fool and stand corrected. My memories from watching our dysfunctional Piston team for too long has caused so much bitterness within me that I cannot write much without an angry tone. Maybe I give AD too much credit but there have been way too many signs that AD gets what he wants which I compared previously to kids who want candy but should not be allowed to eat candy an hour before dinner. AD continues to get his candy from the owner at the wrong time. Having played organized ball or not shouldn't matter if a person has watched as many games as some of have done that involve the Pistons so I apologies to you for making that statement too

This was my last season following the Pistons. I have been a lifetime fan since my Father showed me film of George Yardley as a small kid. All of my close friends who used to be Piston fans haven't followed the Pistons since Knight and Middleton were traded to the Bucks for Brandon Jennings. There is nothing left to say other than the Pistons under this current owner or since the Billups trade, our Pistons have had the label throughout the league as being the lowest basketball IQ team. They don't just lose. The Pistons lose in a dumb way say like that Whiteside tip in over AD where all AD had to do is think about knowing where Whiteside was on the floor and then boxing him out and the Pistons as dysfunctional as they were at the time last season could have won that game and still had a chance to play the next game with an opportunity to make the playoffs. Over the years since Billups was traded how many times did the Pistons owner willingly give up our number one pick in the draft? We lost it to rid the team of Ben Gordon's contract. We lost another one this year to the Clippers. The management of both teams are still laughing at how dumb the Piston leadership became. They are an easy mark. Everyone knows it.

Smart ownership looks for smart players not low basketball IQ players who have demonstrated a weak work ethic. It was only fitting that Rondo hit that baseline 3 point shot last night at the end of the game. During that one possession Anthony Davis led team was able to fight until they secured every loose ball before that shot was even attempted. How many times has Rondo been available if only management, owner and AD would agree and break up the bond between AD and RJ?

Murph but did you read the article this past week about the coming meeting between Tom Gores and SVG? In that article like many others that I have read, the author states that Tom Gores advised that he will consult with AD before that meeting takes place. AD didn't want any more player only meetings. The message man who has no real power to run anything and is fine with it ( SVG $$$ show me the money and I will do what you say coach) sent his message as a warning to the rest of the chumps who only wanted to end getting blown out in the first quarter which had become the norm starting in January in the previous season. You could clearly see that the team chemistry fell into the sewer after SVG made that announcement. AD didn't like what was said in that meeting. The player who organized the meeting was Marcus Morris. He is blunt and came down hard on our want to be All Star point guard and his buddy, All Star add on AD. Both AD and RJ are good men and nice guys who are great off the court. But neither could ever be classified as serious basketball players who strive to play the right way. Morris caused trouble when he was playing with his brother on the Suns but both Morris brothers know how to play basketball unlike Reggie and Andre. Marcus hated playing basketball with losers last year and might have gone over board in the players only meeting. Morris has been the star player on the Celtic team in the first two games of the series with the Bucks. Reggie Jackson couldn't have made the rotation on either team.

I will stand by my last thoughts about the current state of the Detroit Pistons. They suck and are being led by idiots. The only way to get the team starting in the right direction is to trade Andre Drummond this summer before the draft. He is the only player on the Pistons who could bring them a serious basketball player who might become a top tier player at his position. We have nobody at any position who is the best player at his position. But the owner will move forward giving another year to SVG who is doing a great job of doing what he is told to do plus the owner has to pay him if he is fired. Then the beat will go on regarding the Big Three with Reggie Jackson feeding the two All Stars or shooting it himself while the rest of the chumps stand in their positions and watch the Big Three. After next season, the owner will announce it is time to move on and will hire a new front office and coaching staff. He will also say it is time to find a new point guard as Reggie's contract expires. But whatever happens, this bond between the owner and AD will not die. The dysfunction will continue for years to come. That is what shows up in my crystal ball. I am tired of looking at it so will put it away now and maybe pick up my interest if this owner sells the team or a spat is created between the All Star and team owner. This is a soap opera and nothing more. The Pistons are lost in space.

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DDS

Post  Murph on Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:38 pm

So Don, your theory is that Drummond is calling the shots?  Drummond calls Gores on how to run the offense, who then calls Van Gundy?  That's your theory?

Now I like Andre, both as a player and a person.  He's good natured, and the rare NBA star who doesn't have a scowl on his face all the time.   Drummond is a great guy, but he obviously isn't the brightest bulb on the porch.  You are giving him way too much credit.


And second, you wrote:

"What is ever more funny is Murph's post today about AD and his defense. Murph either has never played on an organized team in his life or he has never really watched many Piston games even this season where during certain moments of games AD actually did show some interest in playing defense. If Moreland had AD's body he would be a defensive monster."

I just stated in my post that I have never played an organized game of basketball in my life.  I could not have been more clear.  

And I didn't write it.  I copied and pasted it from an article by Joseph Sinke on the news feed.  Again, I could not have been more clear about that.

And the point is, Moreland doesn't have Drummond's body, Drummond does.



Drummond Derangement Syndrome is real, and Don suffers from it.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:40 pm

BallinD wrote:Our coach the panic junkie, operates out of fear of what could go wrong, rather than what could work...THUS, he chokes on opportunities, avoids creativity like the plague, ridicules and misuses prospects seeking to be coached up, and rigidly refuses to swap out his game plan and rotation, even when it is obvious to all (but him) that it is failing.  We should have known how STUPID he was when he chose to coach and GM the Pistons vs coach the Warriors?!?!  Nuff said!

Shout out to former Pistons coach Alvin Gentry, who lost Demarcus Cousins for the season (Weggie anyone) and is coaching up his team to the second round against a good Blazers team.  


Oracle wrote:
Sparma wrote:Good to hear Rasheed being interviewed.  I gather that he has a show with Kevin Garnett.

Something that I find obvious, partly on the basis of having been coached and having been a coach, is that there's not simply a unilateral relationship between coach and players, as there is with a chess player moving wooden pieces.  Evidently not everyone agrees.  Small examples are ready at hand: a baseball player ignored a take sign, or running through a stop sign at 3rd base.  And we might agree on some big examples, like Jordan saying he'd go along with the triangle, but then take over at the end.  Or LeBron's role in shaping the team's playing style.

Rasheed provided a big example of a player (him) shaping the play, the tactics, on the floor.  Bomani Jones tried to compliment him as being the first shooting big man.  Sheed disagreed, saying that Cliff Robinson and Derrick Coleman not only provided models, but took him aside as his career progressed and encouraged him to shoot more from the outside.  Sheed did go back farther in time to a coach (Dunleavey?) having him play SF for a while, and asking him to shoot more from the outside.  But Sheed's imprint on the game (and he mentioned not want to mix it up underneath every play and risk injury) the development of the shooting PF came from player initiative, rather than being dictated by coaching.

I've been convinced that coaches and players both exercise influence on tactics, rather than those simply being dictated by the coach.  Sheed provided a striking example.
What you say is ONLY true if the coach and management allows it!

Big difference, coaches have the influence and choice, players don't! I do agree it's a complex mix, but the rules of engagement are crystal clear.

Somebody needs to pass that information to Don, because if you have the DNA, but get denied from showing how much of it you have, well, that's how you get the Stanley Johnson's, Luke Kennard's, Henry Ellison's and a whole host of players that get stiffed by horrible coaching. But then again, Don believes these guys don't have that DNA.

More disinformation Oracle. You have slipped again. I was the poster who pointed out why Pope, Johnson and the rest could not develop in the dysfunctional offensive system along with several other posters who don't like the 4 out 1 in when you do not have elite players playing the key positions. Forcing 2 guards and small forwards to stand beyond the 3 point line on the baseline with no hope of ever touching the ball while the point guard dribbles around trying to create hopefully for the All Star center will create many casualties and slow development of promising players. But where some of you go wrong is blaming the coach. The team is run by Tom Gores not SVG. Tom Gores gets his marching orders from Andre Drummond. Who do you like AD? I like Reggie Jackson. He gets me the ball. I like the pick and roll because I like to play offense. This has gone on since Pope arrived. What was Pope supposed to offer Tom Gores team? He was supposed to be a decoy on offense and play really good defense. That is what the owner wanted out of him and that is what SVG directed Pope to do. The same is true for Stanley Johnson. Tom Gores wants to create an All Star or two All Star players. Those players were supposed to be AD and RJ. That is what we got and now Blake Griffin is somehow supposed to fit in with this nonsense. Oracle if you read the sports reporters comments that have been placed in articles now for several years you would know that Tom Gores decides everything based on how it will affect Andre Drummond. AD has that hot line where he can call the owner whenever he gets a new idea.

What is ever more funny is Murph's post today about AD and his defense. Murph either has never played on an organized team in his life or he has never really watched many Piston games even this season where during certain moments of games AD actually did show some interest in playing defense. If Moreland had AD's body he would be a defensive monster. Moreland knows what opposing teams are trying to do and moves accordingly. That is a concept that AD has never contemplated in his life. AD is a part time defender who if he had a good basketball mind could be that monster defender the Pistons have needed. But this season like every season before since he arrived in Piston land. AD is very selective as to when he exhibits effort on defense. AD wants to score. He hates playing defense. Every coach AD has had knows that. Murph somehow never watched AD start many games giving up layups by opposing players. If AD is such a great defender whey does Anthony Davis completely destroy him on every meeting? Anthony Davis has his number along with every other average to above average NBA starting center. But "group think" continues on where it is in stone that AD is the future of the franchise. He is the most important player on the team. We must make things good for AD. Meanwhile I believe that it doesn't matter who the Piston coach might be. The result will be the same or that new coach will be fired. The Pistons will always be a lame offensive team and poor defensive team when the game is on the line because everything is centered around AD who has never been known to be a high basketball IQ player in his entire life. What have have seen with the Pistons since he arrived is a low basketball IQ with AD being perhaps the the slowest player on the team relating to having quick recognition skills on defense. He still doesn't know when to switch or to think quickly enough to box out. But of course he is an outstanding defensive player as Murph points out. I hate watching the Pistons in this era of AD. They will never win crap and everyone who watches knows it. As far as the other players are concerned who get burned by SVG because of the pick and roll offense he is ordered to run by the owner, it will be up to them to find a way to get either traded or move on after their contracts expire. I am sure that is what will happen with Johnson and any other sane young player who has been stuck on this team. But posters will continue on in another 2 years blaming the new coach as we either watch Reggie Jackson dribble around looking for his shot or looking for a shot for AD or another point guard like Jackson doing the same thing. AD should be just another player on the team and be forced to earn his pay check on the defensive end of the floor and be engaged all of the time. But that is not in his nature. He is a part time defender who is glorified even when his keeps on losing. This is AD's team. He is the captain. That should scare anyone.

It is time to move on. I am moving on and will watch the Suns next season. They have a smart owner and a really good GM who knows that you must build a team with smart high basketball IQ players who have a history of knowing what it takes to win. You can continue on with the "group think" that the owner creates for you. You can keep on blaming whoever the coach might be. I am not a fan of SVG but know that no coach in their right mind would use the offense he has used and the same key players he has lost with for this long unless he has been instructed to do so by the owner. Who wouldn't want to make $7 million dollars a year. All you have to do is follow orders from AD who tells TG what he wants. Your small kid wants to eat candy before dinner. Do you give him candy? Don't worry Oracle and Murph you won't have to read any of my nonsense again about the Pistons. Maybe I will write something about the current playoff teams who are fun to watch. Is there any Piston fan out there with the exception of Murph or Oracle who thinks it is fun to watch the Pistons with AD running the show. The blind leading the blind off the cliff. That is what has happened for the last 5 years.

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AD

Post  Murph on Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:04 am

There's a good article written by Joseph Sinke, praising Drummond as our MVP and Defensive Player of the Year.  Having never played an organized game of basketball in my life, Sinke certainly sums up Drummond's season much better than I ever could:

Most Valuable Player: Andre Drummond

Yeah, this one wasn't hard. Tobias Harris and Blake Griffin would've been worth some consideration, hadn't been traded, but neither was there all season (Griffin should have a good chance for this award next year). The only other real option would've been Reggie Jackson, but he missed a ton of time injured, which pretty much left Drummond as the only realistic option. If you wanted to get goofy, I guess you could say "The Pistons starting power forwards," but that is too much of a stretch. Once Blake Griffin got going, you could argue for him, but other than that, there was no time where Drummond was not the best player on the team.

In the end, 15 points, 16 rebounds, 3 assists, 1.5 steals, 1.6 blocks, and a true shooting percentage of 55.5% is an almost comical stat-line. Throw in that he figured out his free throws, finishing the year shooting 60.5% at the line, and you have a great season for Drummond. It is too bad that the team around him fell apart, but this was a great year for Drummond, who improved in pretty much every area.

Defensive Player of the Year: Andre Drummond

This was a two-horse race the entire season between Stanley Johnson and Andre Drummond. Stanley Johnson improved his defensive game to where he fully belongs among the league's premier all-around defensive wrecking balls, but he just doesn't top Drummond's overall value. Drummond blitzed pick and rolls, averaged over three "Stocks" (steals+blocks) per game, stopped jumping for blocks he had no chance at, got out of position way less and didn't get dominated by Jonas Valanciunas. Oh yeah, Andre Drummond is also the greatest rebounder to ever live, so that's pretty nice, too. Johnson and Drummond formed the backbone of a Pistons defense that will finish the season right around 10th in efficiency. Johnson was the only real option to fill the big wing stopper role, which the Pistons desperately needed. Still, Drummond's defensive prowess was more impressive, which is why he got the nod here. Special shouts to Eric Moreland, who anchored a great defensive bench mob all season, but he didn't play enough minutes to warrant legitimate consideration.


Oracle, I think it says it all that KCP had the best season of his career, as soon as he got away from Van Gundy.  SVG coaches our players down, not up. He's the anti-Brad Stevens.
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Ballin & KCP

Post  Oracle on Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:49 am

@Ballin: I agree Gentry is doing an amazing job, going up 2-0 on the #3 seed in the playoffs. Some would say it's because he has a true superstar level talent, ans while that's true, you do have to coach a team up to get those types of results! Unless you have overwhelming talent, you need a coach that knows how to use every bit of talent available to squeeze out the win. The absolute best I've ever seen do that was Larry Brown.

While Pop always had better talented teams, LB took over a lot of slugs(see Clippers) and instantly made them competitive. He got every ounce of performance through coaching. In fact, he was the coach that showed and convinced me of the power of that position.

BTW, Kawhi Leonard is VERY available and likely will only be traded to an eastern conference team by Pop, but he's dangerously getting close to Avery Bradley injury territory. In short, he's vastly talented, but he's risky without someone like Arnie around to keep him healthy!

KCP: Well the season is over, and I was wondering how KCP did with the Lakers. I didn't expect a lot once I saw how the Lakers were so high on their young core and looked at KCP as a vehicle to just help out their future. It's a tough situation because he was forced to defer to those youngsters and it took quite a while for him to mesh with them. However, it looks like KCP had a good, but not great year, where he did get better in a few categories.
http://www.nba.com/lakers/news/180415-player-capsule-kentavious-caldwell-pope wrote:2018 Player Capsule: Kentavious Caldwell-Pope

Season Summary
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope provided the shooting and defense that was expected when the Lakers inked him to a one-year contract.

He shot 42.6 percent from the field and 38.3 percent on 3-pointers — both of which were career-highs — and was one of the Lakers’ best players post-All-Star Break.

During that last leg of the season, he hit 42.3 percent of his 3-point attempts (63-of-149), which was the NBA’s fifth-best clip among those who attempted at least 125 triples.

He also unexpectedly led the Lakers’ rebounding charge once Josh Hart went down due to injury.

Caldwell-Pope — who never averaged even four boards in his first four seasons — finished the season grabbing 5.2 rebounds per game. Only Jimmy Butler (5.3) had more among shooting guards.

KCP was also a efficient attacking the rim, shooting 66.7 percent in the restricted area.

On the other side of the court, his active off-ball defense and reliable man-to-man coverage was key to the Lakers making the jump from 30th in defensive efficiency last year to 12th this season.
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Speaking of Coaching

Post  BallinD on Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:22 am

Our coach the panic junkie, operates out of fear of what could go wrong, rather than what could work...THUS, he chokes on opportunities, avoids creativity like the plague, ridicules and misuses prospects seeking to be coached up, and rigidly refuses to swap out his game plan and rotation, even when it is obvious to all (but him) that it is failing.  We should have known how STUPID he was when he chose to coach and GM the Pistons vs coach the Warriors?!?!  Nuff said!

Shout out to former Pistons coach Alvin Gentry, who lost Demarcus Cousins for the season (Weggie anyone) and is coaching up his team to the second round against a good Blazers team.  


Oracle wrote:
Sparma wrote:Good to hear Rasheed being interviewed.  I gather that he has a show with Kevin Garnett.

Something that I find obvious, partly on the basis of having been coached and having been a coach, is that there's not simply a unilateral relationship between coach and players, as there is with a chess player moving wooden pieces.  Evidently not everyone agrees.  Small examples are ready at hand: a baseball player ignored a take sign, or running through a stop sign at 3rd base.  And we might agree on some big examples, like Jordan saying he'd go along with the triangle, but then take over at the end.  Or LeBron's role in shaping the team's playing style.

Rasheed provided a big example of a player (him) shaping the play, the tactics, on the floor.  Bomani Jones tried to compliment him as being the first shooting big man.  Sheed disagreed, saying that Cliff Robinson and Derrick Coleman not only provided models, but took him aside as his career progressed and encouraged him to shoot more from the outside.  Sheed did go back farther in time to a coach (Dunleavey?) having him play SF for a while, and asking him to shoot more from the outside.  But Sheed's imprint on the game (and he mentioned not want to mix it up underneath every play and risk injury) the development of the shooting PF came from player initiative, rather than being dictated by coaching.

I've been convinced that coaches and players both exercise influence on tactics, rather than those simply being dictated by the coach.  Sheed provided a striking example.
What you say is ONLY true if the coach and management allows it!

Big difference, coaches have the influence and choice, players don't! I do agree it's a complex mix, but the rules of engagement are crystal clear.

Somebody needs to pass that information to Don, because if you have the DNA, but get denied from showing how much of it you have, well, that's how you get the Stanley Johnson's, Luke Kennard's, Henry Ellison's and a whole host of players that get stiffed by horrible coaching. But then again, Don believes these guys don't have that DNA.
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Sparma: The single most important thing you missed?

Post  Oracle on Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:19 pm

Sparma wrote:Good to hear Rasheed being interviewed.  I gather that he has a show with Kevin Garnett.

Something that I find obvious, partly on the basis of having been coached and having been a coach, is that there's not simply a unilateral relationship between coach and players, as there is with a chess player moving wooden pieces.  Evidently not everyone agrees.  Small examples are ready at hand: a baseball player ignored a take sign, or running through a stop sign at 3rd base.  And we might agree on some big examples, like Jordan saying he'd go along with the triangle, but then take over at the end.  Or LeBron's role in shaping the team's playing style.

Rasheed provided a big example of a player (him) shaping the play, the tactics, on the floor.  Bomani Jones tried to compliment him as being the first shooting big man.  Sheed disagreed, saying that Cliff Robinson and Derrick Coleman not only provided models, but took him aside as his career progressed and encouraged him to shoot more from the outside.  Sheed did go back farther in time to a coach (Dunleavey?) having him play SF for a while, and asking him to shoot more from the outside.  But Sheed's imprint on the game (and he mentioned not want to mix it up underneath every play and risk injury) the development of the shooting PF came from player initiative, rather than being dictated by coaching.

I've been convinced that coaches and players both exercise influence on tactics, rather than those simply being dictated by the coach.  Sheed provided a striking example.
What you say is ONLY true if the coach and management allows it!

Big difference, coaches have the influence and choice, players don't! I do agree it's a complex mix, but the rules of engagement are crystal clear.

Somebody needs to pass that information to Don, because if you have the DNA, but get denied from showing how much of it you have, well, that's how you get the Stanley Johnson's, Luke Kennard's, Henry Ellison's and a whole host of players that get stiffed by horrible coaching. But then again, Don believes these guys don't have that DNA.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:16 pm

BallinD wrote:He said Pistons might as well trade the 2nd round pick because it won't be worth anything: Lazy Thinking!??!
1. Nikola Jokic drafted 41st in the second round.
2. Anybody remember Agent Zero, Gilbert Arenas

#60 C.J. Miles
#59 Allen Crabbe
#58 Ersan Ilyasova
#57 Cuttino Mobley
#56 Bojan Bogdanovic
#55 P.J. Tucker
#54 Jordan Clarkson
#53 Gerald Wilkins
#52 Rafer Alston
#51 Patty Mills
#50 Matt Barnes
#49 Zaza Pachulia
#48 Glen Davis
#47 Anderson Varejao
#46 P.J. Brown
#45 Vinny Del Negro
#44 Luis Scola
#43 Chandler Parsons
#42 Malcolm Brogdon
#41 Hot Rod Williams
#40 Jae Crowder
#39 Steve Kerr
#38 Vernon Maxwell
#37 Trevor Ariza
#36 Khris Middleton
#35 Marcin Gortat
#34 Lance Stephenson
#33 Lou Williams
#32 Danny Green
#31 Eddie Johnson

He is a professional NBA reporter?

WTF wrote:I keep saying our local media/talking heads are special but not in a good way.  I'm okay with opinion as long as it isn't a dumb opinion and you've done your homework before you speak. 


Pistons Mailbag wrote:As for Billups, it’s a move that would excite the fan base because it’s a recognizable name — but what are his credentials, beyond being an ESPN analyst? He was a candidate for the Cavaliers’ GM job last year, but he has no front-office experience. The last time a Detroit team went out and hired someone from the press box in the front office, it was Matt Millen. Billups actually could work out, but there are no guarantees there.

Everyone doesn't need a platform to speak.  How could this idiot mention Matt Millen as an example Billups coming from the broadcast booth has merit that it could work.  Really football and basketball not the same and really what happened the last time we hired an inexperience GM with no previous experience? I believe 2004 did.  I still think Joe was lucky but nonetheless Sherlock do you homework.

Maybe this writer is having lunch with SVG and the Piston's owner. Our Piston leadership somehow hates the thought of building a team through the draft. I know a few players who are not even listed on any of the draft boards who could end up having great futures in the NBA. Alonzo Trier does not appear on NBADRAFTNET. Maybe he has decided to return for his final year of eligibility but he plays both guard spots and might become an outstanding NBA scorer. His current weakness is his defense but somehow Tom Gores is OK with the way Reggie Jackson plays defense. Who can be worse? Every college player has flaws but all of our current roster players have flaws. Giving up draft picks when you are outside looking in relating to the playoffs makes you an idiot to throw away draft picks. Our owner needlessly gave away our number one pick as a throw in for Blake Griffin. Tell me the Clippers wouldn't have made that stupid trade the Pistons made without the pick. Maybe that is my stupid opinion but making that trade made no sense at all. The Pistons have the worst management and ownership group in the NBA. They are easy prey for the perennial smart guys who always come up on top.

If watching the playoffs doesn't make all Piston fans angry knowing the team we have, then the owner might be successful in selling season tickets using the current hype relating to how great we will be with a healthy Reggie Jackson and Blake Griffin. And how can we forget about the improvement of AD's free throw shooting. WOW! Our partly engaged team during the months of January and February will improve so much that they will win even if they continue to ignore the mental game preparation players need to be successful. This team shows they are immature. That has been the case for the past 5 years. There is nothing to feel good about now with no first round draft pick. Maybe this owner will give our 2nd round pick away because he is embarrassed about giving away our number one pick and on draft night when the Clippers select a rotation piece, maybe one of the analysts will mention the Blake Griffin trade and who was responsible for negotiating that deal. If we have no pick maybe the owner will believe that no Piston fan will watch the NBA draft.

By the way the leader of creating the players only meeting that caused so much stir last season who was traded over the summer sure had a great game last night. This year the returning players knew better than to suggest a players only meeting knowing that is the kiss of death for the player who mentions such a thing first. It is better to just blend in and keep on losing and don't rock the boat or make any critical remarks to those who are protected. I believe that response by SVG to the players only meeting was the curse of death for the Detroit Pistons. And sure enough Detroit looked and acted like a big loser again while the arena remained close to empty. But what a gift Marcus Morris received when he was traded and plays for Brad Stevens and some high basketball IQ players who are not All Star's will huge stats but know how to win. On paper I can't see how the Celtics can win any playoff game. But there are no chemistry killers on that team and the coach is fantastic. The Pistons will use the old smoke and mirrors tricks to try to keep the fans engaged with the team next season. It won't work.

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Doofus Beard Advocates Pistons Trading Second Round Pick

Post  BallinD on Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:06 pm

He said Pistons might as well trade the 2nd round pick because it won't be worth anything: Lazy Thinking!??!
1. Nikola Jokic drafted 41st in the second round.
2. Anybody remember Agent Zero, Gilbert Arenas

#60 C.J. Miles
#59 Allen Crabbe
#58 Ersan Ilyasova
#57 Cuttino Mobley
#56 Bojan Bogdanovic
#55 P.J. Tucker
#54 Jordan Clarkson
#53 Gerald Wilkins
#52 Rafer Alston
#51 Patty Mills
#50 Matt Barnes
#49 Zaza Pachulia
#48 Glen Davis
#47 Anderson Varejao
#46 P.J. Brown
#45 Vinny Del Negro
#44 Luis Scola
#43 Chandler Parsons
#42 Malcolm Brogdon
#41 Hot Rod Williams
#40 Jae Crowder
#39 Steve Kerr
#38 Vernon Maxwell
#37 Trevor Ariza
#36 Khris Middleton
#35 Marcin Gortat
#34 Lance Stephenson
#33 Lou Williams
#32 Danny Green
#31 Eddie Johnson

He is a professional NBA reporter?

WTF wrote:I keep saying our local media/talking heads are special but not in a good way.  I'm okay with opinion as long as it isn't a dumb opinion and you've done your homework before you speak. 


Pistons Mailbag wrote:As for Billups, it’s a move that would excite the fan base because it’s a recognizable name — but what are his credentials, beyond being an ESPN analyst? He was a candidate for the Cavaliers’ GM job last year, but he has no front-office experience. The last time a Detroit team went out and hired someone from the press box in the front office, it was Matt Millen. Billups actually could work out, but there are no guarantees there.

Everyone doesn't need a platform to speak.  How could this idiot mention Matt Millen as an example Billups coming from the broadcast booth has merit that it could work.  Really football and basketball not the same and really what happened the last time we hired an inexperience GM with no previous experience? I believe 2004 did.  I still think Joe was lucky but nonetheless Sherlock do you homework.
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BallinD

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Geez Wiz

Post  WTF on Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:10 pm

I keep saying our local media/talking heads are special but not in a good way.  I'm okay with opinion as long as it isn't a dumb opinion and you've done your homework before you speak. 


Pistons Mailbag wrote:As for Billups, it’s a move that would excite the fan base because it’s a recognizable name — but what are his credentials, beyond being an ESPN analyst? He was a candidate for the Cavaliers’ GM job last year, but he has no front-office experience. The last time a Detroit team went out and hired someone from the press box in the front office, it was Matt Millen. Billups actually could work out, but there are no guarantees there.

Everyone doesn't need a platform to speak.  How could this idiot mention Matt Millen as an example Billups coming from the broadcast booth has merit that it could work.  Really football and basketball not the same and really what happened the last time we hired an inexperience GM with no previous experience? I believe 2004 did.  I still think Joe was lucky but nonetheless Sherlock do you homework.
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What will AD tell the owner? will it be a thumbs up or thumbs down?

Post  cool breeze on Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:39 pm

AD has it made so why would he want a change relating to the GM or head coach? He doesn't have to listen to SVG if he doesn't feel like it. Then when he decides to take a game off or play defense part time, everyone will blame SVG. The head coach is paid a lot of money to take the blame for the owner's blunders as well as the players lack of engagement. So why wouldn't he be back as long as the same guy owns the Detroit Pistons and his pet player plays for the Pistons. This has been a soap opera since SVG arrived. Any real coach would have resigned at least by the end of last season. For the owner to think for one second that Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond could act like grown ups and lead the team by example not talk would be much like the previous head coaches who were forced to play Charlie V when Joe had another mind fart with that free agent signing. AD the guy who put out a restraining order against a shooting coach SVG hired specifically to teach AD how to shoot foul shots. Even if the shooting coach might have been the guy who screwed up Stanley Johnson's jump shot release, to think that a low basketball IQ player could have complete control of all decision making should make all fans run for the exits of the arena. Screw you Stan, Tom says I don't have to do anything I don't want to do. This team is being run by children from the top on down. Now that the Pistons are on the outside looking in the owner will lean on Blake Griffin to become the team leader but just how much of an impact will Blake have on the two losers, Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond?

What you see in the playoffs are players with the DNA that our players do not have. Our players are not athletic or inspired enough to ever get to the top tier level. We have our Reggie Bullock who sure has improved but he is not in any stretch of the imagination on the same level of a guy like Middleton. We need a new owner and a new GM and coaching staff. If Isiah Thomas were asked to run this team there is no way that Reggie Jackson or in my opinion Andre Drummond would be on the team next fall. Drummond could be packaged so his new team would have to take Reggie Jackson if a 3 way trade could not be worked out. Nobody wants Reggie Jackson or his contract. Would Boston want AD enough to take Reggie? My bet is that Zeke would find a way to remove both players. AD could bring the Pistons a high draft pick. Zeke knows the only way the Pistons will get on the right track is to tank and slowly secure hard core players who nobody has to worry about being "engaged" to play in January and February. Every player on the roster should be looked at as a possible trade piece. No chance of moving Blake. We can thank the owner for the Pistons losing our number 1 pick. Who would do that knowing how horrible this team has become? Did AD have an say in who the Pistons drafted last summer? I doubt it but am not sure. Would SVG not want a guy like D. Mitchell to compete for playing time at Point guard? What a huge mistake but in the past it seems that the Pistons have gone out of their way to avoid competition for their chosen players. Middleton and Affalo were casualties from that type of decision making where emotional attachments by management and ownership deliberately eliminated completion first with the obsession to glorify Stuckey and now to protect Reggie Jackson. SVG even went so far as finding a small guy like Smith to bring on the team knowing he would never complete for the starting position over Jackson. Say if Detroit had drafted Brogdon playing now for the Bucks, who would any objective coach pick for playing time knowing how poorly Jackson plays on defense?

The story line that the pistons will easily make the playoffs next season is funny if you are not a Piston fan. Our point guards will get killed in any playoff matchup. Our center will get out smarted in every big man matchup. Our small forward and shooting guards will be inferior to all opponent players at those positions. Meanwhile, our bench will be led by Jon Leuer SVG's ace in the hole. But if there is still an opportunity to fire SVG from all duties and hire Zeke to run the Pistons operations without any input by the owner, then we can all feel that the Pistons have moved out of hell. This team looks like ship that has gone off course because the captain has committed suicide by jumping over board.

I would consider Jason Terry to bring on as an assistant coach for the Pistons next season if he retires. He knows every player in the league as well as the college players. Terry is a tireless worker who has really helped those young players on the Bucks. Can it possibly be true that SVG will return with his entire coaching staff for another go around? Money might talk for Tom Gores on this issue. And of course AD will approve. SVG doesn't say anything cross to AD. SVG knows how to butter his bread. What will happen if Blake Griffin explodes and confronts AD and RJ for their half in and half out style? Will Blake be another Josh Smith showing up on the payroll but not in uniform?

One final observation and prediction regarding the Cleveland-Indiana series. The officials will determine the outcome of this next game regardless of how well Indiana might play. In the last game towards the end, Labron was clearly suing the forearm shiver like football players might do many years ago to clear his way to the basket knocking down defenders and always getting a positive call from the officials. Indiana has the game they wanted though. Maybe the question will be what will happen if the officials are told by the NBA front office to employ the Labron rules when the series returns to the Pacers arena? Those fans have witnessed the Labron rules in the past. Will they create a riot? Great job Indiana! After all that maneuvering with the incredible trades made by Cleveland before the trade deadline and they still lost that first game. Fantastic!

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