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Who can be happy with AD's stats when the team lost while creating over 20 turnovers?

Post  cool breeze on Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:00 am

This team looks much like last season's team after the month of December. This team is the most dysfunctional team in the NBA. The offense once Ish Smith enters the game is the most primitive offensive team in the NBA as well. How can shooters be successful if the point guard takes over the entire offense and creates his own offense. This is what happened too much of the time. Smith gets lucky and beats the opponent's big man down the court and scores a layup. After that happened Smith tried it again. Then all I could see was 4 players standing around at spots while Smith dribbled. The shot clock winds down and Smith dribbles to one corner and gives up the ball when he is within 3 feet of his teammate. This happened to Harris, Tolliver, and Johnson. They are stuck now trying to beat the shot clock while now having two defenders on them. Smith trots away to the backcourt as if he has done his job. The Pistons have a defensive breakdown when AD fails to recognize the play Utah is running on the side out of bounds. Johnson is screened out. AD is the guy who is supposed to cut the baseline off but is too high. Result a layup to send the game into overtime. The coach who has his head up his rear keeps Smith in the game instead of bringing in Galloway. Somehow the head coach doesn't notice the total dysfunction going on with the Pistons half court offense. There is no offense. This is pure street basketball like a pick up type game where players play together for the first time. The team needed a different point guard so they could run a more predictable type offense that was effective earlier in the game. If you have a guy like Bradley who does well going around screens and then you see him standing because no offense is being run, then the coach should recognize that something is wrong. No adjustment by the head coach who is in la la land.

Keeping your head in the game is important if you are the coach. In the 3rd quarter the Pistons were looking good until SVG brought in Boban. This was not a good game to use Boban. Any coach in their right mind should have recognized that fact and if they did play him, it should have been clear after 3 turnovers in a row that someone else should have been playing center for the Pistons.

Harris is the victim of a dysfunctional offense. He is expected to make contested shots and create shots in a dysfunctional offense. Harris is confused. He is now shooting the ball without getting a good base. His body is floating. His timing is off. He is shooting the ball in the paint off balance much like Smith. But his worst trait lately is his lack of energy on the boards. Tobias is not rebounding the basketball or playing even average defense in the paint or outside the paint. Last night Tolliver should have been in the game more in the 4th quarter. It was Tolliver who dug the Pistons out a a huge hole created by the coach playing Boban.

My final comment is one that is scary and i will bet that all of you who watched the Pistons lose to a horrible NBA team that has lost a lot of games this season will agree with this observation. The Piston players look very confused on both offense and defense. I have seldom seen a team this far along in the season look so confused as a team that has now played together for a long time. On offense, the pistons appear to play the most primitive offense in the NBA. Only a few players recognize situations on the court and take advantage of those situations. Who got the ball into AD the most for easy shots around the rim last night? It was Stanley Johnson. He would penetrate and know that AD's man had to switch onto him and then could make a safe pass to the fully engaged AD. Simple plays when you use your head can work. This type of play seldom happened last night. And players seem to be rushing too much while making bad decisions as if they are in a panic situation before the 4th quarter arrives. They have the got to get the shot up look on their faces even when they do not have a high percentage chance of making the shot.

The Pistons have turned themselves into a lottery team. Why not get as high up in draft position as possible. If the coach wants the circus act with Smith so be it. Just continue to lose and make sure the games are not close. We don't want to win too many more games. Trade any of the high contract players that you can including AD. His numbers mean nothing. If the Pistons could trade Drummond with a deal for first round picks and force that team to take Reggie Jackson or Tobias Harris, the Pistons will be back in good financial shape. Now they are in a bad financial position with a horrible team on a 6 game losing streak while playing games at home against losing lottery teams. Start playing Ellenson and all of the players who are 23 and younger. Bring in players from the G League just for fun. This last game was a horribly played game by the Pistons even while they played hard with great energy. Last season they played with less energy so I guess you could say the Pistons are improving. Who ever is in charge of the point guards has been doing a horrible job now for several years.

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Great Game By Andre but.......... Other Worldly????

Post  WTF on Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:05 am

Oracle wrote:The last person before @AndreDrummond with 30 points, 24 rebounds, 4 assists, 6 blocks and 3 steals in the same game is ... no one. All those stats have been kept since 1973-74. It hasn't been done. - Keith Langlois

It might be a 1st but I would still like to see how close the next player was to those exact stats stats.  Of course Keith wouldn't add that because it'll take away from the obsessive hyping he wants to apply to this moment.    lol

I'm just saying what if the opposing player or any player for that matter had a stat line of 24 points, 30 rebounds, 10 blocks, assist and 2 steals would it be any less or more impressive that what Andre put up?   Simply can't view this as being the greatest thing we've ever seen when we have all have witness performances like this many times by numerous players.  

See this kind of stuff IMHO is that the media far too often overstate moments like this KL an idiot lol


Last edited by WTF on Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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Maybe I'm Throwing A Bit Of Shade

Post  WTF on Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:36 am

Oracle wrote:How many of these guys did that while scoring 30 points and recording 6 blocks, 3 steals & 4 assists against a 7'2 opponent with a 8' wingspan?

I could imagine that a few of those guys came very close to doing so.  I came across this list trying to find comparable games still looking, but I would find hard to believe that players like (Hakeem, Shaq, KG, Duncan, Camby and Barkley) didn't have similar games like this.  I'm sure I miss mentioning someone on that list that might have came closes.

I'm not knocking AD at all I just think moments like this get a bit overstated because there's a 50-50 chance he'll come out far short of those numbers next game.  I mean it when say his numbers should be bordering 20/20.   There's a ton of context in that list from a rebounding perspective just by looking at the number of times a player appears on it.
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FYI: I said Drummond's game was other worldly, well the proof is in...

Post  Oracle on Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:51 am

The last person before @AndreDrummond with 30 points, 24 rebounds, 4 assists, 6 blocks and 3 steals in the same game is ... no one. All those stats have been kept since 1973-74. It hasn't been done. - Keith Langlois
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Wise: Impressive List, but you need context...

Post  Oracle on Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:37 am

How many of these guys did that while scoring 30 points and recording 6 blocks, 3 steals & 4 assists against a 7'2 opponent with a 8' wingspan?
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Modern Era Rebound Single Game

Post  WTF on Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:10 am

[th]Rank[/th][th]Player[/th][th]TRB[/th][th]Date[/th][th]Tm[/th]
1.Charles Oakley351988-04-22CHI
2.Rony Seikaly341993-03-03MIA
 Dennis Rodman*341992-03-04DET
4.Charles Barkley*331996-11-02HOU
 Kevin Willis331992-02-19ATL
6.Dennis Rodman*321994-01-22SAS
 Dennis Rodman*321992-01-28DET
8.Kevin Love312010-11-12MIN
 Dikembe Mutombo*311996-03-26DEN
 Dennis Rodman*311992-03-14DET
 Kevin Willis311991-12-03ATL
12.Andrew Bynum302012-04-11LAL
 Dennis Rodman*301995-02-21SAS
 Michael Cage301988-04-24LAC
15.Andre Drummond292015-11-03DET
 Timofey Mozgov292014-04-10DEN
 Nikola Vucevic292012-12-31ORL
 Dikembe Mutombo*292001-01-31ATL
 Dikembe Mutombo*291999-12-14ATL
 Dennis Rodman*291997-12-27CHI
 Dennis Rodman*291993-11-09SAS
 Herb Williams291989-01-23IND
23.Tyson Chandler282013-02-27NYK
 Ben Wallace282002-03-24DET
 Ben Wallace282001-04-17DET
 Dikembe Mutombo*282000-12-26ATL
 Popeye Jones281996-01-09DAL
 Dennis Rodman*281993-12-01SAS
 Shaquille O'Neal*281993-11-20ORL
30.Tyson Chandler272016-01-23PHO
 Andre Drummond272015-11-08DET
 DeAndre Jordan272015-02-09LAC
 Andrew Bogut272011-01-07MIL
 Tim Duncan272010-01-27SAS
 Marcus Camby272008-12-17LAC
 Ben Wallace272006-12-15CHI
 Dennis Rodman*271997-12-29CHI
 Charles Barkley*271996-12-04HOU
 Popeye Jones271996-04-06DAL
 Dennis Rodman*271995-03-05SAS
 Dennis Rodman*271995-02-07SAS
 Dennis Rodman*271992-12-23DET
 Dennis Rodman*271992-02-18DET
 Dennis Rodman*271992-01-23DET
 James Donaldson271989-12-29DAL
 Buck Williams271987-02-01NJN
 Moses Malone*271984-03-25PHI
48.Dwight Howard262016-01-18HOU
 DeAndre Jordan262015-03-01LAC
 Andre Drummond262014-04-11DET
 Andre Drummond262014-03-03DET
 Dwight Howard262013-10-30HOU
 Reggie Evans262013-03-27BRK
 Dwight Howard262013-01-06LAL
 Al Jefferson262012-04-16UTA
 Tim Duncan262010-02-17SAS
 Al Jefferson262010-01-13MIN
 Joel Przybilla262008-03-22POR
 Andris Biedrins262008-01-27GSW
 Dwight Howard262006-04-15ORL
 Erick Dampier262005-01-29DAL
 Shaquille O'Neal*262004-03-21LAL
 Lorenzen Wright262001-11-04MEM
 Chris Webber262001-01-05SAC
 Jayson Williams261997-11-13NJN
 Ervin Johnson261997-04-19DEN
 Dennis Rodman*261997-01-10CHI
 Charles Barkley*261995-03-24PHO
 Dikembe Mutombo*261994-11-11DEN
 Dennis Rodman*261994-02-19SAS
 Dennis Rodman*261993-01-11DET
 Dennis Rodman*261993-01-09DET
 Dennis Rodman*261993-01-08DET
 Patrick Ewing*261992-12-19NYK
 Dennis Rodman*261992-02-16DET
 Dennis Rodman*261992-02-06DET
 Charles Shackleford261990-02-20NJN
 Otis Thorpe261990-02-15HOU
 Charles Oakley261986-03-15CHI
80.Rudy Gobert252017-01-20UTA
 DeAndre Jordan252016-12-28LAC
 Hassan Whiteside252016-11-15MIA
 Bismack Biyombo252016-03-17TOR
 Andre Drummond252015-03-11DET
 Hassan Whiteside252015-03-04MIA
 Kenneth Faried252014-12-26DEN
 Tyson Chandler252014-11-26DAL
 J.J. Hickson252014-02-25DEN
 Anderson Varejao252014-01-02CLE
 LaMarcus Aldridge252013-12-12POR
 John Henson252013-04-10MIL
 Dwight Howard252012-03-13ORL
 Ersan Ilyasova252012-02-19MIL
 Dwight Howard252012-01-18ORL
 Zach Randolph252010-02-27MEM
 Marcus Camby252010-01-20LAC
 Dwight Howard252007-01-10ORL
 Emeka Okafor252006-12-29CHA
 Kevin Garnett252005-01-12MIN
 Erick Dampier252004-03-28GSW
 Kevin Garnett252003-12-05MIN
 Tim Duncan252003-02-01SAS
 Dikembe Mutombo*252000-02-18ATL
 Jamie Feick252000-01-20NJN
 Lorenzen Wright251999-03-11LAC
 Dennis Rodman*251997-12-23CHI
 Patrick Ewing*251997-02-23NYK
 Charles Barkley*251997-01-10HOU
 Jayson Williams251996-01-30NJN
 Dennis Rodman*251995-01-22SAS
 Dennis Rodman*251994-03-26SAS
 Olden Polynice251993-12-08DET
 Dennis Rodman*251993-11-10SAS
 Shaquille O'Neal*251993-04-20ORL
 Kevin Willis251993-04-13ATL
 Kevin Willis251993-03-29ATL
 Dennis Rodman*251993-03-26DET
 Dennis Rodman*251993-03-07DET
 Dennis Rodman*251993-02-23DET
 Dennis Rodman*251992-03-20DET
 Dennis Rodman*251992-03-18DET
 Dennis Rodman*251992-02-19DET
 Dennis Rodman*251992-01-31DET
 Dennis Rodman*251991-12-13DET
 Jerome Lane251991-04-21DEN
 Larry Smith251991-02-16HOU
 Larry Smith251991-02-03HOU
 Roy Tarpley251990-04-01DAL
 Hakeem Olajuwon*251990-02-27HOU
 Hakeem Olajuwon*251989-12-17HOU
 Mark Eaton251989-03-15UTA
 Hakeem Olajuwon*251989-02-21HOU
 Mark Eaton251987-11-17UTA
 Charles Barkley*251987-03-24PHI
 Charles Barkley*251987-03-20PHI
 Artis Gilmore*251987-01-17SAS
 Robert Parish*251987-01-09BOS
 Charles Barkley*251986-03-30PHI
 Robert Parish*251986-03-08BOS
 Ralph Sampson*251985-12-26HOU
 Hakeem Olajuwon*251985-03-05HOU
 Hakeem Olajuwon*251985-02-14HOU
 Edgar Jones251984-03-13SAS
 Maurice Lucas251983-12-26PHO
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As with most things... it's complicated, but...

Post  Oracle on Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:17 am

We're missing a CLOSER!!! However, here are the main culprits.

1. Bradley sits front and center, especially in this game. Why is he playing in the 4th? Ish passes him the ball and he passes it right back, forcing Ish to be the guy taking deep 2's or 3's, and that's Reggie's game, not Ish.  Ish becomes the guy to take shots because after Bradley's fear of missing, which is real, Harris starts feeling the pressure, as did Kennard & Stanley. If Drummond wasn't converting so many of their misses, we would have been blown out.

2. SVG is doing is playing not to lose, but even worse, he can't adapt to his roster to save his life. Sparma nailed it when he said that he should have subbed in Galloway for Ish! You needed a shooter, especially if you're going to insist on playing a totally ineffective Bradley.

Drummond had a game that Lanier, Laimbeer or Big Ben would have been crying to have, he out shown all of them! This was a MONSTER performance by Drummond, and I don't say that lightly.

Wise, I agree about the 20/20 or close to it every night, but this performance was other worldly! Drummond on many occasions just wouldn't be denied, and his block of Golbert was a thing of beauty, and that game saving block of Mitchell was Big Ben like!

You're right, I'd give anything to get this level of rebounding and defense every night and I wouldn't complain if he scored a bit less.

The last reason we are losing is we need a PG, we're missing our flawed leader Reggie very badly when it comes time to close out games. Go back and see what I wrote before the season!

I said what we lose when we move BOTH KCP and Morris were closers, and that left only one in Reggie. now that Reggie is down, you can't lean on role players like Harris, who's the best of the rest. I won't put that on youngsters, it's too early to expect that they can close games regularly.
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AD

Post  Sparma on Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:37 am

Wise:
"As I said this are numbers he should be putting up most nights and sporadically but he has to want this for himself."

I think it's mlive that reports no NBA player's put up these numbers since 1973-74 (or as long as recorded).

I'm not quite sure how I'd compare Drummond to Laimbeer and Wallace on the whole (I'd have him behind Lanier), but my instinct would be to acknowledge he's weaker in some ways (defensive positioning), but also better in certain respects (offensive rebounding).

I'll stick with being skeptical that he's the guy to lead the charge, but this was a historic night for him. Evidently no (Piston) center's been known to match him in the set of statistical categories where he exceled tonight. That doesn't tell the whole story, but it's quite something.


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SVG Need To Be Kicked In The Face

Post  WTF on Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:21 am

If Andre was trying to make a statement it needs to go far beyond this game.  As I said this are numbers he should be putting up most nights and sporadically but he has to want this for himself.   I'm always saying there's no reason he shouldn't be a consistent 20-20 guy every game.

Still I have issues about this performance especially if it was motivated solely on being snubbed as he thinks.  Why not be motivated by the desire to win or motivated by the fact that you have 125 million dollar deal.  Forget the points and rebounds I was more impressed by the 6 blocks another thing we should see on a more consistent basis as well.

I'm not trashing him I'm just being honest and keeping it in it's proper perspective.  Also he doesn't get that free pass Sparma of who he's playing with just my opinion.  Bill couldn't jump 2 inches but play smart tough position basketball, and had range from 3 point line to the paint, he was very capable of 20-20 nightly but he was on the floor with another rebounding demon (Worm).  While I could never expect 30 point out of Big Ben he was much in the manner of Rodman a Defensive Demon.    Andre doesn't have that It Factor, that extra thing that Bill and Ben had.  

If he plays like he did tonight for the remainder of the season especially the blocks, then I'll be convince he's arrived.  These numbers he had tonight are the same number he needed to put on Embiid after being punk that first game.   

In fairness though Andre didn't lose this game as usual his coach did.  Again I'll keep stressing my point on the number of 3's why they lose games like these.  SVG say it was the 20 TO's SMH,  I guess the bad shooting had nothing to do with it.  facepalm
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Utah

Post  Sparma on Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:14 am

Andre with 30 and 24, HoF numbers, and HoF game. Complaint: it seems like a lot of his bounce passes inside have gone for TOs recently. Still, let's appreciate what we have in him. His game's still got serious flaws, but in a number of significant ways he's better than B. Wallace and Laimbeer. Those guys were part of dream ensemble casts (with a superstar added in on the Bad Boys); the present cast comes nowhere near those championship teams. But Andre does, the way he played tonight, and much of this season.

Noticing the line up at 89-82 (AD, Tobias, Ish, Stanley J, and Bradley), I wondered how they were going to create O. They didn't. Tolliver and Kennard (easily the only two + guys for the night, with Boban neutral) needed to be in there for SJ (moving Harris to SF) and Bradley. It came as no surprise that they sputtered. SVG fielded a related question, saying it was the best defensive unit. Possibly, although debatable (Tolliver's been pretty great on D most of the year). But it goes back to my complaint that SVG coaches to avoid failure too much: he's coaching not to lose, when he needed to keep the offensive pressure on, go for the win (how many football games have been blown with teams playing not to lose at the end?). I may even have switched in Galloway for Ish.

All credit to Spencer the other night, but that may have been a low % percentage shot for the win. This one, you could see coming. Utah's a solid team, but our (avoidable) collapse made for a terrible loss.
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Another Loss I Saw It Coming

Post  WTF on Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:49 pm

Oracle wrote:At home, WTF is your deal, how bad are we???

Bradley is the WORST starter we have, and I'm including the curious start of Galloway.

What a revolting development!!!

I'm not surprised one bit facepalm
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If you can't BLOW out a team like Utah...

Post  Oracle on Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:39 pm

At home, WTF is your deal, how bad are we???

Bradley is the WORST starter we have, and I'm including the curious start of Galloway.

What a revolting development!!!
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Mitchell plays like Bradley isn't even there!

Post  Oracle on Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:34 pm

Where is the effing defense???

Mitchell needs no screens or anything, he just goes around Bradley like he isn't even there!

Seconds left, and Drummond is keeping us in this game with his defense and offense!
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End of regulation, on to OT!!!

Post  Oracle on Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:23 pm

Drummond, this is the way you fight back if you think you've been dissed, you go out and have a GREAT game!

That's exactly what the big fella did, he filled up the stat sheet and was totally impressive on BOTH ends of the floor!

Ish made a fantastic defensive play in the 4th, but Kennard just couldn't hit the shot to win it!

Bradley is too scared to take a shot... please move this guy SVG!
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Stuff

Post  WTF on Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:28 pm

I hope this media whining about the alleged stop as well,  we all been around long enough to see what an All Star actually look like I mean really we had many over the past 20 years.  I can't think of one time that any of them didn't deserve being selected either by the fans or coaches this whining of Andre's is very disturbing to say the least.  

24 players get selected every year so every years someone feels like they've been snubbed and most don't go to twitter to whine like a little bitch about not getting selected.   You want to mad at someone be mad at yourself because you are the only reason you're sitting on the outside looking in.  Let Embiid take your spot when he publically punk you in the media then you lose 3 times to him SMH.  You got played and was too stupid to see it coming because you're a damn goof ball.

175 years in addition to the 60 years for the child.  Once you get to prison you might not make to 30 years.  I don't feel bad for you sir but its just sad that a you chose to take advantage of all those young girls.  I do think MSU should hold some accountability in this I'm just not sure to what extent it seems that someone should have know something.

Did the NFL really claim they fix games or was what I was watching was more fake/fabricate FB News?  We know refs blow calls, we know they secretly do make up calls.  Not saying games can't be fixed but it's kind of hard from a ref perspective seems more feasible and likely they a player could miss passes, drop balls, blown field goals, miss tackles.  I just think between instant replay, and challenge flags by coaches it would be a little difficult.   

SVG you too just shut up on the snub thing as well,  you know damn well he didn't deserve to go and the only reason you're speaking on it is because you bear some of blame why he didn't get selected.  In fact your so shady you probably didn't vote for him either.  Instead of pacifying him be truthful with him about why he was snubbed. 

Fire SVG Please
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Re: FORUM

Post  Murph on Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:35 am

Drummond getting snubbed is just the icing on the cake to this season.  If Drummond played with Lebron or Kyrie Irving the way Love and Horford do, then the Pistons would be in contention also. And Drummond had nothing to do with Reggie Jackson getting hurt.

Oh well, I don't watch the All Star game anyway. Sleep
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Re: FORUM

Post  WTF on Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:41 pm

I think it's funny and I'm cracking the hell up laughing about it.  Andre just shut up, man up and play ball and not just some time do it all the time.  The reason why the coaches didn't select you because you are an underachiever and they can see it.   

I said this before and I'll say it one more time the reality is that your basically still a season or 2 where you should be.  When they selected you the first time you were on pace but then you sucked so bad last season you felled behind. You didn't get better you got worse.

Also coaches don't care about back flips and that comment just shows how out of touch you really are as far as what make an All Star.  GROW UP!!!!
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Surprise Surprise

Post  BallinD on Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:14 pm

I never thought he would get the nod, especially with the emergence of Embiid.  He deserves it over Horford based on the stat test, but factor in the winning and it's clear why Horford got it.  He did get love from a lot of pundits and writers, so I am glad that the recognition of his efforts and especially FTs is out there in the public sphere, but I never thought he deserved it over Embiid, who took his lunch money this year.  Too much up and down and his comment is borderline delusional, IMO.  What you have to do is protect the rim, dunk on the heads of those who oppose you, and quit doing the dipsy doo when you get to the hoop...Go Hard, Young Man, Go Hard!! Hope he will play with a chip on his shoulder!  lol

Oracle wrote:Drummond was passed over? Hell, to be passed over, you have to be in the running, he wasn't!

Raise your hand if you thought Bradley would be an all star. I didn't, but I didn't know how bad he turned out to be, although Van Gundy's offense/defense seems to have that effect on players.

Harris started the season like one, but he faded fast, but I think the surprise was that Drummond, by far our best player(let that sink in for a minute), didn't make it shocked the local media.

Utah is coming in and we need to win this one for Kennard, just for the moral victory, but there is no doubt Mitchell is by far the better all around player. He should thank his lucky stars SVG didn't get his hands on him, he'd be riding the bench here or in the G-League for lack of defense!
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More AD

Post  Sparma on Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:30 pm

Other seem surprised by Drummond's snub too, not just local folks. An NBC* story features Lou Williams in the West and AD in the East, saying: "Likewise, Andre Drummond is having a statistically important year for the Detroit Pistons as he leads the league in rebounding and in defensive box plus/minus."

Not even quite sure what "in defensive box plus/minus" is, but if I'm guessing right what it is, that stat surprises me too.

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Surprising?

Post  Sparma on Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:16 pm

I find Drummond to be a tough one to figure, but yes I'm surprised. Can't remember a guy with those numbers being out. Rodman (a better player) never made the All-Star game, right, but than his overall stats weren't as good. Who am I forgetting? I watch little of the rest of the NBA, so others can set me straight on the eye test.

Here's one statistical measure that favors his cause: in PER Drummond edges out Love, and handily beats out all the other big guys who made the NBA East, i.e., Embiid, Porzingis, and Horford. I looked at another (WIN) ranking, which puts Horford first, but AD in front of the other East All Stars, including again Embiid [which doesn't mean I think AD's better than Embiid!].

It looks to me that it was less that AD lost out to other bigs, as that one big less than expected was chosen. A Sporting News guy predicted all the East bigs correctly, but added Drummond. Looks to me like Oladipo beat out AD.

And it can't help having a losing record!

All that said, I see serious flaws in AD's game (mainly defensive positioning), so in that way it's not shocking.

My guess is that he still makes it, once one (or two) Eastern choices beg off.

Could this possibly be an incentive for improvement on AD's part? If so, I'd happily take that outcome. Sour grapes, I suppose, but I don't think much of the format they're planning to use this year.


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This Is Why I Hate Him At Times

Post  WTF on Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:20 pm

Drummond wrote:[ltr]Guess I gotta start doing back flips after every point I score to get attention around here! [/ltr]

Geez!!! No you just have to play like you're worth the 125 million you're making.   This is what bothers me big time about him he actually think he's arrived to point where ASG selection is a given.  GIVE ME A FREAKING BREAK!!!!!!!

When you get thumped by Dwight Howard and punk by Embiid you're not deserving. After laying that egg after the first selection coaches no longer take you seriously.   I mean who didn't you think you are Cousins. 

Those that want to argue Big Ben and Rodman getting selected please note that they were defensive giants not just rebounding stats.  Why don't you just try shutting the hell up and dominate offensively and defensively like you should be doing already.
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Non News Flash: Drummond is not an All Star!

Post  Oracle on Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:19 pm

Drummond was passed over? Hell, to be passed over, you have to be in the running, he wasn't!

Raise your hand if you thought Bradley would be an all star. I didn't, but I didn't know how bad he turned out to be, although Van Gundy's offense/defense seems to have that effect on players.

Harris started the season like one, but he faded fast, but I think the surprise was that Drummond, by far our best player(let that sink in for a minute), didn't make it shocked the local media.

Utah is coming in and we need to win this one for Kennard, just for the moral victory, but there is no doubt Mitchell is by far the better all around player. He should thank his lucky stars SVG didn't get his hands on him, he'd be riding the bench here or in the G-League for lack of defense!
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More Ranting

Post  WTF on Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:22 pm

Why not start Kennard at PG and Johnson at SG it wouldn't hurt much considering how thing been going.   Truthfully I would play give the bulk of minutes to Ellenson, Kennard and Johnson for the remainder of the season and let the chips fall where they may.   Forget any hopes of playoffs and start preparing for the draft this summer so if you can move pieces for picks be it 1st or 2nd do so.   

It only makes sense to do it this way because this team is just spinning its wheels and should be a lot further along then struggling for an 8th seed in the playoffs.  Lets just be 100% committed to fully trying to develop our last 3 picks and let them sink or swim then decide what you want to do with them come season end.   Give them all the practice time, and attention they need make them the focus of what you want to do, use the rest of these games teaching games win or lose.   

Scrap your stupid offense and run plays specifically designed to each ones talent and abilities.   I rather watch them lose games this way if I have to watch a loss at all.  Don't yank them if they make a mistake, don't yank them if they're not tired just let them play.  Don't give dumbass looks, criticize them, scream or howl at them, just freaking teach them.   Teach them to think,  tell them what you want them to do.  

Most of the time when I watch them play I often wonder if they're being taught at all.  How much hands on are they getting and who's working with them in practice.   This coaching staff sucks!!!!!! and I'm disappointed in Tim Hardaway, who's the big man coach? 


  • Head Coach


    • Stan Van Gundy
      (College - SUNY-Brockport)



  • Associate Head Coach


    • Bob Beyer
      (College - Alfred)



  • Assistant Coach


    • Malik Allen
      (College - Villanova)
    • Tim Hardaway
      (College - Texas-El Paso)
    • Charles Klask
      (College - Michigan State)
    • Aaron Gray
      (College - Pittsburgh)


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Start Kennard at point guard. With day off, SVG considers tweaks - offense sucks and defense is even worse over 5 game losing streak

Post  cool breeze on Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:18 pm

It is becoming tiring to read about the adjustments SVG needs to make to pull the team out of a rut. The truth is that the highest paid athletes are not playing at maximum ability or their ability is not as good as the opponent star players. Take your pick but I suspect the players we have who make the most money are just not good enough to beat the opponents best players. What SVG continues to ponder with his big adjustment decisions is to zero in on the fringe players and put one on the bench and replace that player with another young guy who is has some ability but is not making the big money. Your highest paid players cannot play average or below average. What is happening is that when everything does not go AD's way in the first half of games or in the 3rd quarter, he puts his foot off the gas and will coast for several minutes until the coach finally calls a timeout. Even though Smith does not make the same money as Drummond, Jackson or Harris, he is considered by SVG as a cornerstone it seems. At times Smith has played great but there have also been periods in games where his solo conduct has really hurt the team especially when he doesn't share the ball and then misses his shot. His defense is a problem as well. Yet this coach is concentrating on Johnson, Kennard and Bullock wondering which of those players will fit the starting lineup the best. Right now Bradley is off his game. This is the first time I have joined in on the criticism relating Bradley's faults. But in his defense as some have pointed out, he is not playing well with Ish Smith. He plays better with Jackson. Yet Smith is not in the conversation when SVG talks to his bought and paid for sports reporters. This is what I would do to tweak things.

If no trade is going to take place involving a point guard, start either Galloway or Buycks. Let Smith resume his role as a pace changer for the 2nd unit. The coach could also try Kennard as point guard which I think is the best idea. Luke can see the court as well or better than any other player on the team. He has been a really good football quarterback in high school so knowing that if I were coaching a struggling team that can't start the game well, then the point guard position is the first thing that I would look to tweak. Not SVG though, he is a stubborn cuss. He loves Ish Smith so emotion rules and logic and reason is non existent. Kennard immediately gives the starting unit better defense. Bradley for sure would be more successful. Kennard would not go solo and run his self created offense. He would run the motion offense so his teammates would know ahead of time what the hell was going to happen when he would bring the ball up the court. Now starting payers have no idea what Smith is going to do. Will he go solo and drive into the paint and then dribble back out. Will he pass the ball to Harris who has to fight to get open to even receive the basketball being opponents all know Smith looks first to pass the ball to Harris. If Kennard played point guard I believe this Piston team would look much different. Then I would start Stanley Johnson who plays really well with both Kennard and Bradley. All three of those players have a high basketball IQ and could play off each other. AD would still be a facilitator but could pass the ball with much more proficiency because Kennard, Bradley and Johnson all move without the ball and have quick recognition skills. The Pistons would be scoring more inside the paint. Harris would have a much easier time on offense because opponents would be really busy trying to guard Kennard, Bradley and Johnson. And Johnson sets good screens which would really help Kennard, Bradley and Harris. And Johnson is a guy who plays inside the paint on defense well and could help AD on the boards and in help defense when drivers get by the perimeter defenders. This is a no brainer to me. Kennard should be playing point guard in the starting unit and if that happens Johnson starts at small forward. But instead, SVG will come up with some dumb ass plan picking one of the two players who should both be starting. Bullock could start in place of Johnson if the coach insists because of his outside shooting potential. But the combination of Kennard and Johnson is a good thing and should not be overlooked by a coach who is close to being fired. It is time to put aside the emotions and blatant bias relating to SVG's love affair with Ish Smith. The team is losing and it is easy to see why they are losing. The current group of players who start do not play well together. Whatever SVG might do will not change a damn thing unless he changes the starting point guard. And if Kennard did play that position, everyone would forget about Reggie Jackson's injury and hope he doesn't return.

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Murph: Kidd?

Post  Oracle on Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:16 pm

Kidd may be the best available, but his problem has been arrogance and general assholery! He can coach, but likely would tear his scalp(most of the hair has been long gone) out with the PG's we have. Of course, I had a hard time trying to convince people that while Reggie wasn't perfect, he has the capability to make this team work. Bradley has looked like sh!t since Reggie went down, he needs a PG to feed off of and divert the defenses attention.

However, I totally agree about Sessions, he's just amazing(yeah, I'm a fan of his) and would easily be the best guard on this team by a long shot!

BTW: Last season it seemed like we were playing games back to back to back to back damn near all of the time. So far this season, we seem to have plenty of time between games, so we're really rested. That's also another reason I don't understand why we're losing so much.
Murph wrote:If the Pistons were smart, they'd hire Jason Kidd as Head Coach immediately.  Coaches like Kidd are not available often.  And IMO, Kidd is an excellent PG coach, which is what the Pistons need most.

The year before Kidd took over, the Bucks went 15-67...15-67!  In the four years since Kidd was hired, the Bucks have only had one losing season.  The turn-around under Kidd's leadership has been miraculous.


It's too bad the Pistons didn't try to pick up a veteran PG such as Ramon Sessions, immediately after Reggie went down.  Since then the 'Stone's have lost 9 out of 12, including 5 in a row.  
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