Someone else on Boban!

[Sparma]

Outstanding piece on Boban by Chris Herring at 538, bringing out his strengths and weaknesses, and how complicated his fit is (see below for the opening).

He points out that on D, he has the worst increase in shooting percentage among defending centers. He brings out that it's a mixed picture on D, given his strong and sheer size. All fair points.

Two comments: 1) I need to go back and check to see that something isn't there that I'd like to see: how well the other team does offensively (not just the shooting of the guy he's guarding). My hunch is that the opponent does worse offensively when he's in than when Moreland's in. I'd like to see the stat on that. For instance, Stan said that Miami was getting penetration all night, which led to 3 pointers. Not true. At least, not how I remember the game. They weren't penetrating when we got off to a 12-5 lead. Olynyk then came in, making a big dif with Boban in (and later). The D really fell to pieces once Boban left (Kelser even made a comment about the D losing it, without linking to Boban going out). Why? Moreland (who I thought played pretty well by his standard) can indeed defend the 3 better. But Boban not going all the way out (usually) leaves the D with a giant clogging the middle, which makes penetration tougher. I specifically remember Kelser chuckling about Johnson juking Boban in the middle only to have Boban get the easy stuff when he went to shoot. On defense, there are trade offs. On O, no contest.

2) The article does a great job of bringing out the mixed bag that Boban is. Still, most efficient ever on O!!?? Surely, a good coach can carve a niche for such a player (this in agreement with Oracle).

(And I think SVG does some things well, especially in the front office.)

"DETROIT — What if I told you that in today’s stats-obsessed league — where everything, including the arc of a shooter’s jump shot and the length of a player’s stride, can be spliced and measured — perhaps the most efficient scorer in modern NBA history couldn’t get off the bench most nights?
That’s the reality for 7-foot-3 Pistons center Boban Marjanovic, who scores with unprecedented efficiency when he is on the court.1 Among players who’ve averaged 30 points per 100 possessions and played in at least 100 regular-season games, no player has been able to match Marjanovic in points per shot attempt, and those who have come closest are either already in the Hall of Fame or likely will be one day. He also currently leads the NBA2 by a wide margin in points per touch, according to data from Second Spectrum.
The most efficient players in modern NBA history
Leaders in career points per shot attempt, 1974-2018
Player
Years
Points per shot attempt
Boban Marjanovic
2016-2018
1.62
Adrian Dantley
1977-1991
1.53
Charles Barkley
1985-2000
1.52
James Harden
2010-2018
1.51
Shaquille O’Neal
1993-2011
1.47
For players with a mininmum of 30 points per 100 possessions in 100 regular-season games.
Source: Basketball-Reference"

[WTF]

There's no doubt in my mind that we should live or die by giving Kennard major minutes.  This has nothing to do with liking or disliking Bradley but everything with why draft a player and don't play him. If we were talking about some 2nd pick we drafted then argue on why he should be force to wait for PT but he's not.  He was selected 11 overall but was a player thought to be a Top 10 pick so we were lucky to get him.

Some **** is just mind boggling about drafting players and how they get used by this team once drafted.  This applies when yo drafting anywhere between 1-15 really.  You should be looking for players that are going to make immediate impacts or at worst players you're ready to develop immediately IMO when you draft in those spots you toss that player to the wolves coming in.   

Both Kennard and Ellenson fits in that category so why is SVG pussy footing around with them is beyond me.  IMO Ellenson would further alone then he is if he was tossed to the wolves when we drafted him.  Instead he's likely already been destroyed as a player having being coached by this idiot.   It just hurts my brain seeing all this confidence SVG places in SJ and not in these 2 players who are more fundamentally advanced than SJ.

[Oracle]

This was a competitive, hard fought game, with a lot of interesting side stories.

Kennard has a NBA game that's well beyond his years! He has a great shot and is as cagey and wily like a veteran. This kid can only get better, and his defense, while not great, is good enough for now, IMO.

Buycks looked really good and confident. Outside of one or two forced shots, he penetrated and either scored or hit the open man, color me impressed.

Both Moreland & Boban suffer from the same problem. Both are very effective, but only if used properly, and SVG is struggling to do that.

@Murph: You're right, Kennard is the future and Bradley could net us a good pick to enhance that future. I've come to like Bradley, but he has no part in the future of this team. It's best for both him and us to part ways at the deadline, IMO.

@Lemon: I agree, the loss of Reggie & Bradley has shown us that there are other doors open to the future, both are expendable, IMO. Very good observation on Tolliver, he's great in spurts, but Ellenson needs PT.

I noticed that there was an update on the status of Leuer... if it wasn't a trade, I'm not interested. Talk about an unneeded part...

[lemonpen]

Gotta keep feeding Luke PT. There is the possibility that he will make Bradley an attractive piece by the trade deadline.

With Bradley out of the picture there could be a really nice battle for starting SG between Luke and Bullock.

Maybe the performance of Ish and the new kid will continue to trend upward enough to build a Reggie - Bradley trade package. Ish doesn't have to be the answer, only a stop gap, cause his position as prime backup is solid.

Hopefully Boban's performance is the start of Morelands exit. I'm not a true BM fan but his overall contribution far exceeds that of EM.

Tolliver may have a little gas left but he is too limited for a large role. I sure would like to see Henry get an opportunity at starting PF.

I sure would like to see our wings stay closer to their men. The Heat took too many uncontested threes.

[cool breeze]

This is starting to look like the MSMBC trash talkers who hate our President. Many will start getting bigger paychecks and then wonder why they still hate Trump so much. All of the same television networks that fixed the democratic primary to screw B. Sanders out of the nomination are the major Trump bashers now. But I suspect the normal person might have to say publicly that they hate Trump because that is popular. Hate is popular in today's world. Could it be false propaganda mud slinging. Hate the man showing great emotion instead of discussing why you hate some of his policies like sane people used to do. I guess there were many who did the opposite by hating on President Obama as well so both sides have individuals who refuse to become educated enough to understand the difference from blatant nasty politic propaganda from facts. I believe that every person who becomes President tries hard to do the best they can. And I believe Stan Van Gundy has suffered more ridicule than he deserves this season. I was on the bandwagon to fire SVG for his performance last season. But I believe he is doing an outstanding job this season.

Actually I am surprised that more of you were not satisfied with how the Pistons played in this last game. It is almost impossible to pull out a win when your opponent makes 17 three point shots and many of those shots were very difficult makes. Everything was bouncing Miami's way last night but did our players ever give up? DIdn't SVG take a T because he was fed up with the homer officials who refused to call a foul after the Pistons new back up point guard who was hammered about 7 times in the paint? How about the fact that SVG put his stamp on this current roster that is playing better than any team we have seen in years? I like every player but still am not a fan of Boban or Leuer as regular players or the amount of money they are making. But I agree that Boban sure played really well and in fact it was refreshing to see him get good position in the painted area and perhaps he played better defense against Whiteside than we could ever hope Drummond could do. But when Kelly came in off the bench it was clear that the Pistons could not match up with Boban on the court. It is true that Moreland had great difficulty guarding him as well but at least Eric limited Kelly's 3 point shooting. To me this was a night when the Pistons starters struggled making shots especially Harris and Smith. Whenever Smith takes the ball solo from end to end and shoots the ball and misses that always seems to translate to 2 more points for the opposition. He better make sure he makes those tough out of control and off balance shots in the future or hold up and allow his teammates to at least get set up on offense. In a close game Smith gave up 4 points that way against Miami. Nobody touches the ball but Smith and then bam Miami gets a layup on the other end. But what I am pleasantly happy over is how well Smith is playing on defense lately. What a scrappy player Smith has become even against players a head taller.

I always stand up for players like Eric Moreland because I appreciate his all out effort on both ends of the floor.I see his potential as a game changer on defense in the future and he comes at a low price. Like I have said before, Moreland just needs to gain more weight and strength next off season and with his experience this year, I expect him to look a lot like Ben Wallace. Some of you are so quick to throw players under the bus after loses. I am surprised at how short sighted people can get due to the negative emotions that come with your team losing. Just remember when you played your ass off in a game and lost because somehow the ball just wouldn't go in the hole even though you shot it no differently when it did go in the previous game. Sometimes you just cannot overcome an opponent who is drilling 17 three point shots in one game. Many teams just give up when that happens and they lose by 20. Our players never gave up unlike last season. So why not say something positive and support the players instead of ripping them apart and blaming the coach so much? Nasty and mean is the popular way. Everyone is the expert who is not playing or coaching the actual game. It is good to have opinions but that is just what they are. My opinion is just another opinion from one who is not actually involved in the game. At least I know that much. Am am surprised that nobody wrote anything negative about Stanley Johnson. He made it for one day so maybe he should celebrate the fact that he didn't face execution.

Looking on the bright side, I loved watching the different lineup without Reggie and Andre. The team looked good and competed hard in an away game where the ball was bouncing perfectly for Miami. From my personal perspective, I believe that Mr. B. our new backup point guard has much more potential as a starting point guard for the Pistons than either Reggie or Ish. He has two important traits that I like. He can play solid defense even though he is playing against solid vet starting caliber point guards for the first time in his life. Usually you need to play against a vet at least twice to learn how to play them on defense but Mr. B. did not back down. He got faked out a few times but never lost his confidence. And Mr. B. is not a ball hog point guard either. He will shoot it when he can get to his sweet spots on the floor but likes to actually run the half court offense and move the ball around to both sides of the court like a real point guard should. How many other high grade players like Mr. B, are out there ready to get their shot but never seem to get it because the league is full of Reggie jackson type players who are so satisfied with their game that they never try to improve? They get the big contract which leaves management no room to take a chance on some talented players who linger in the minor leagues for their entire careers.

Unlike many of you I enjoyed seeing Bradley back on the court. He was up and down last night as should be expected from his long layoff. But this team needs Avery Bradley especially as we get deeper into the schedule. Kennard has had two great offensive games now and that is fantastic but come on Bradley is a money player and one of the hardest and most dedicated players in the NBA. You have not seen his best yet. And Kennard has earned and will get a lot o minutes as long as he makes shots and continues to play hard on defense. Great job Luke!

My excitement especially in the last few games has been the play of Reggie Bullock. He plays as hard on defense as anyone now. Reggie's is cutting much better and recognizing situations on the court especially his ability to make a sweet back cut to the basket. AD gets him the ball when he does that. Boban is not as good at the passing game but maybe that is because of lack of playing time. If Boban can play offense like he did in this game and can get better on defense he should get more of Andre Drummond's minutes and Moreland's minutes. But he has yet to prove in the Euro league or the NBA that he can defend well enough. Yet AD is not so hot at times on defense either especially at the start of games. I thought Boban played better than Andre usually does in the first 5 minutes of most games. This team has some real character and I think that Tolliver and Bradley have a lot to do with this big change from last season. None of you really know what goes on behind the scenes relating to leadership within the team. I would really like to see a trade involving Reggie Jackson now if the Pistons could get a solid first round pick. But then Reggie did play the right way in the game that he sustained his injury. But the Pistons long term can do better than Reggie Jackson. Yet I might be completely wrong and would love it if Reggie proved me wrong. Go Pistons just continue to play hard.

[Murph]

Sparma and Ballin'...agreed.  The two guys that SVG obsesses over are Boban and Kennard.  No matter how well they're playing, SVG is up their ass about every single mistake they make.

Wise...I agree.  It's time to start Kennard for better or worse.  Kennard is going to be our starting SG for the foreseeable future, so why not start him now?

Oracle...I am so over Avery Bradley.  We went 5-2 without him, and last night he had a game worst -21 on his +/- numbers.  Furthermore, after a hot start, Bradley has been shooting 35% since December 1st.  He's killing us.

The one thing SVG is good at is finding value off the waiver wire.  Dwight Buycks seems to be another undervalued gem, along with Bullock, Galloway, Tolliver and Moreland (sort of).

[Sparma]

Boban starts the game with 9 points and 5 rebounds in 7 minutes.  He's on pace to put up Wilt numbers, except that, unlike Wilt, he's hitting his FTs. Later Kelser (predicting, incorrectly, that SVG's bringing Boban back in) said Boban had been "destroying" Whiteside.

I don't get it, but I'll try.

Pistons get off to a fast start, led by Boban, unmistakably the best player on the floor in the early going.  Spoelstra makes an adjustment, brings in Olynyk, who scores inside as well as on a long 3.  SVG time out.  SVG: I knew it!  Boban can't guard big guys outside!  And Spoelstra made a switch.  I must react. Moreland comes in, and plays more than Boban from that point on, finishing with 0 points and 5 bounds in 17 minutes.  Boban played an additional 14 minutes, also outproducing/ outplaying Moreland in that stretch with another 6 points and 4 rebounds, for a total of 15 points and 9 rebounds in 21 (!!) minutes.

There much more to be said, but what's the point?  

Ok.  Moreland bumped Olynyk on a play, Kelser said more than once.  Olynyk scored.  He was too big for Moreland, and other guys who tried (like Harris on at least one play).

Boban can't guard deep, and he's vulnerable off the dribble.  But he's great on O, and makes contributions on D.  Yes, he did get Whiteside in foul trouble, BallinD.  And he had a beautiful pass to a cutter (Kennard or Bradley); he's a far better passer than Moreland.  On D, he alters shots, he doesn't get pushed around, he rebounds.  That's actually quite a lot.

When the other team hits 17 of 34 3s, you're probably going to lose.  But Stan, we had it going on.  You blew it with your overreaction.

Incidentally: Tolliver's the best defender in the league according to one stat: when he's the primary defender, opponents shoot 9% lower than their season average, best dif in the league.

And Buycks looked good.  My prediction of Galloway stepping in with big minutes has been way off.  Credit to SVG there.  Langston just doesn't seem to have a good enough handle to get by guys regularly, disrupting the D.

So Boban has 13 pts and 8 rbs in 15 minutes, and Moreland has 0 pts 5 rbs in 18 minutes!  What is Stan Smoking!  Boban is +2 and Moreland a -3.  I just don't get it.  And Boban managed to get Whiteside in foul trouble!

Buycks with 10 and 4 ast is staking his claim to backup pg minutes.  Go Pistons!

[BallinD]

So Boban has 13 pts and 8 rbs in 15 minutes, and Moreland has 0 pts 5 rbs in 18 minutes! What is Stan Smoking! Boban is +2 and Moreland a -3. I just don't get it. And Boban managed to get Whiteside in foul trouble!

Buycks with 10 and 4 ast is staking his claim to backup pg minutes. Go Pistons!

[Oracle]

Every player is out once in awhile, it's the ones that are perpetually out... that's a big difference.

Big DEEP 3 pointer from Bradley to cut the lead down a bit, nice shot!

So Drummond is out tonight with a bruised rib, and Boban is starting?

I knew better than to write, "Drummond...never gets hurt."

[Murph]

So Drummond is out tonight with a bruised rib, and Boban is starting?

I knew better than to write, "Drummond...never gets hurt."

[Murph]

Don, in my opinion it's more important how well a players plays than where he is taken in the draft.  For example, Drummond was taken 9th in the draft, but has compiled the 3rd most win shares of any player taken in his draft, behind Anthony Davis and Damien Lillard.  

On the other hand, Darko was taken #2 in the draft, but compiled the 32th most win shares of any player taken in the his draft.

Now one can argue the accuracy of win shares as an indication of a player's value. But  for lack of a better stat, let's assume win shares gives a fairly accurate measure of what a player is worth and how much he contributes to his team's success.


Now, I have not doubt that Ayton will be an outstanding NBA player, if he stays healthy.


But speaking of health, in my opinion, the ability to stay healthy is a vastly under-valued attribute in the NBA and professional sports in general.  For example, who would you rather have?...Drummond who never gets hurt (knock on wood), or Joel Embiid, who is arguably more skilled than Drummond, but who has missed 224 games in his first 3 1/2 seasons?  I think the answer is obvious.

And incidentally, health (or minutes played) is a big factor when compiling a player's career win shares.

[cool breeze]

Shaq stated before the season started that Ayton is a special one of a kind player who will dominate in the NBA. He is only a freshman yet at 7 foot 1 or 2 inches tall is not the typical big man we are used to watching play in the college game. Sean Miller stated that he has never coached a player like Ayton. His work ethic is off the charts. His basketball IQ is off the charts. his physical presence is off the charts. His development as an offensive and defensive player is off the charts. He has every counter to any defense much like Anthony Davis had at an early age. Yet Ayton is solid. He cannot be moved off his position. In a big matchup against Arizona State who brought an undefeated team and was ranked 3rd in the country, Ayton scored 23 points, secured 19 rebounds, had 3 key blocks and 3 assists. Ayton is one a freshman and will be the number one pick in the draft for some lucky team. Ayton has 10 double doubles in 13 games too. And for a lot of people who have watched him play, they believe he has only scratched the surface of his overall potential that will be realized in the NBA. Remember the college career of Andre Drummond who came in severely damaged because he lacked the basic fundamentals of playing defense and could not function on offense well when opponents changed defenses and had no idea where he should be when his team actually ran a 2nd or 3rd option play on offense. AD often was in foul trouble and had a very frustrating season as a college player fouling out very quickly in hi only NCAA tournament game. AD has come a long way. Ayton will come into the NBA with an outstanding work ethic. He has won the honor of wearing the practice jersey of the player who gave the most outstanding effort and effectiveness for all but one week since his team began practice this season. He doesn't disregard any type of suggestions from the coaching staff. He listens and then executes the right way because his focus this season is to learn how to play the right way. How refreshing is this guy? He is a big man who listens. That is a rare thing. Shaq is right. Ayton is going to continue to get better until he dominates in the NBA. He has the physical tools and has the type of brain that is needed to be able to think 2 to 3 plays ahead on both offense and defense. He just has to avoid a disabling injury. Whoever gets Ayton next summer will be smiling big time. When will our Pistons get a top 3 pick in the draft? I don't see that coming within the next 5 years do you? Unless Detroit secures at least one top tier player who can dominate his position almost every night, our Pistons will never be a consistent winner. What is the goal of the owner Tom Gores? Is he content to field a team that can just make the playoffs? Will he gamble with some of our current players and trade them to secure a top 3 pick in the draft at any time during his ownership? Detroit will never get through the combination of Wall and Beal as long as they are at their prime? That is just one team. Labron has enough juice to take on all 5 of our starters in every playoff game. This current team will need to play perfect team orientated basketball to be successful. They will have to be fundamentally sound at every position. That means that the individual players must improve by huge margins to have a chance int he playoffs to stay in games and get lucky. At this time we must hope for perfection because we have no top tier players yet.

[cool breeze]

ESPN

11. Detroit Pistons
2017-18 record: 20-15

PREV. RANK LAST WEEK THIS WEEK
13   2-1 @MIA, @PHI, HOU
With no obvious go-to scoring threat, (What about Tobias?) the Pistons have become one of the NBA's best at manufacturing points. Take for instance their movement on offense. According to Second Spectrum, Detroit utilizes over 107 off-ball screens per game, nearly 10 more than the second-ranked Warriors. The fulcrum for all of that action? Tobias Harris and Andre Drummond, who rank first and second in total screens set. Per Second Spectrum, Harris has set over 100 more off-ball screens than any other player in the NBA. -- Micah Adams Who knew?  I wonder where we rank in passing? I know we are near the bottom in getting to the line. That is unless Boban gets good minutes    

Wow this is the best information anyone has put out on this forum. Thanks BallinD. While everyone has been ragging on our head coach shouldn't he get some credit this season for making the change in the Piston offense possible? I guess not. How many coaches have we all found fault with since Flip Saunders left because of the bogus trade involving Chauncy Billups for Allan Iverson? It has been a musical chairs game where the GM or owner could pull the plug on the head coach to take attention away from the GM who picked the players that could not compete well enough to beat opposing teams. Since the era of Mr. BigShot the Pistons have never had a top 5 pick in the draft even though it was clear to all fans that the players who were wearing the Piston uniform had no chance achieving a winning record. This season it seems that there is more stability. SVG has made two huge blunders by signing Leuer and Boban to contracts that he cannot move. This team has no real alpha dog type player that fans can count on to dominate consistently and make winning plays yet the team chemistry is superior this season. That has something to do with the coach in my opinion. If only one of us could be reporting from the inside of the Piston organization we all could have more insight on what the chances are of the Pistons having continuing success for the rest of this season with the current players on this roster.

I would recommend the following idea to get the team through this current injury bug problem. How about placing both Leuer and Boban on the injured reserve list for the rest of the season. Then let the GM go to work and attempt to find two forgotten players that smart GMs always seem to find at the right time to make the team better.

1. We could use a fierce defensive minded big man who is smart enough to offer that 2nd line of defense when penetrators attack the Piston paint. AD still has not figured out how to get that job done consistently. Moreland is very active and knows how to do that job but he needs to gain 20 pounds to be effective against some teams. If our Piston GM could find that guy to give the team just 8 minutes a game of all out ball busting energy and hard core defense this team could stop opposing runs.
2. Find a real point guard with a high basketball IQ to properly run the Piston offense and play outstanding defense. This point guard does not have to be a high scoring ball dominate type player. When the Pistons get out of sync on offense and fire up quick long range shots that miss, opposing teams get on big runs. By bringing in a point guard who plays the style I have mentioned, the Pistons could have a better chance of stopping those runs and could get in a better rhythm by quickly getting into the motion offense and running the 3rd and 4th option forcing opposing teams to actually play defense and eliminating transition baskets. It is silly to just call a timeout and then not change something when opposing teams get on runs. The current NBA seems to be a game of runs now. Find a way for the team to have an identity and that identity might be to finally create a team that can stop runs by digging down deep on the defensive end.

The above is my analysis of what is currently missing yet because I am not involved at the core level on the inside to see how the players interact on a daily basis and how the players react to coaching my opinion might not be correct. Who knows but it is true that this team is better than the team last year but still has no identity that one can see consistently. We never know how the team will perform from game to game. I never know how AD will play on the defensive end from game to game. AD is a big key to the downfall or assent of this Piston team. How much will he be willing to give his team??

[WTF]

After calling for Harris to start at SF and Tolliver to start at PF all season...I now want Harris to start at PF, Bullock to start at SF and Kennard to start at SG.

Ish, Buycks/Galloway
Kennard, Galloway/Bradley
Bullock, Johnson
Harris, Tolliver
Drummond, Boban/Moreland

I want a brand new team forget a starting lineup 

[WTF]

It's a pretty violent TV series with a lot twist and turns with the characters involved.  I don't want to offer up a spoiler but in the first 5 minutes of episode #1 I was introduced to the Cartel, murder and the real dirt at hand I was already convince to lock myself in and watch.   By the last episode I was like please give me more this can't be over.  

Never could get into Game Of Thrones, but Luke Cage end up be something I really enjoyed after being convince to watch all the other Marvel spinoffs been hard to get into.  

I've been hesitant with 100 and  Stranger Things

[Murph]

After calling for Harris to start at SF and Tolliver to start at PF all season...I now want Harris to start at PF, Bullock to start at SF and Kennard to start at SG.

Ish, Buycks/Galloway
Kennard, Galloway/Bradley
Bullock, Johnson
Harris, Tolliver
Drummond, Boban/Moreland

[Oracle]

There is ONLY one loser on that list      

BTW, the Pistons better start setting the world on fire to save you, Ozark sounds like some major f@#king boring sh!t 

Might I suggest,
1. Travelers
2. Stranger Things
3. The 100
4. The Strain
5. Luke Cage
6. Daredevil
7. Gotham
8. Van helsing
9. Orphan Black, or the best of the best
10. Game of Thrones

Allegedly he manages these stats without a great o-line and no run game.  We still for whatever reason kills him because he don't pull lightening out his arse and bring home the cheese.   There was a 4 game stretch that he played injured it was clearly obvious Thanksgiving but all I could do was sit watch and say to myself boy he's needs a run game.  Every throw was bad it was the worse I've seen him play but how do you blamed the injured it's not like we had the balls to have Colin Kap as his backup,  IJS    I would be mad if that was a healthy Matthew throwing that badly but the man was injured for most of the last 6 or 7 games. 

	1. Tom Brady, NE	4577
	2. Philip Rivers, LAC	4515
	3. Matthew Stafford, DET	4446
	4. Drew Brees, NO	4334
	5. Ben Roethlisberger, PIT	4251

Top 5 Total yardage, finish 7th in total QBR,  29 TD's vs 10 INT's He had 2 1,000 yards WR really doesn't sound like a loser , and yet our top runner finish with barely 500 yards.   Seriously it's 32 teams and our RB finishes at 36th, he got out rushed by 2 QB's and 2 non starters probably because his 3.3 yard average.   

Kicker is our leading scorer finished in the top 10, how nice if would have been if it was a WR or RB but it was our kicker,  at least Stafford gets an assist for at least getting him in range.

[WTF]

Okay I been a lot of binge watch of Netflix and I just want to say Ozark is a damn good series, I was initially turned of by the name, then I hadn't paid attention the cast but yesterday I said what the hell just watch it.  Needless to say I loved it so now I can't wait for season 2.    

Okay back On Topic unless something else comes up

[WTF]

Allegedly he manages these stats without a great o-line and no run game.  We still for whatever reason kills him because he don't pull lightening out his arse and bring home the cheese.   There was a 4 game stretch that he played injured it was clearly obvious Thanksgiving but all I could do was sit watch and say to myself boy he's needs a run game.  Every throw was bad it was the worse I've seen him play but how do you blamed the injured it's not like we had the balls to have Colin Kap as his backup,  IJS    I would be mad if that was a healthy Matthew throwing that badly but the man was injured for most of the last 6 or 7 games. 

	1. Tom Brady, NE	4577
	2. Philip Rivers, LAC	4515
	3. Matthew Stafford, DET	4446
	4. Drew Brees, NO	4334
	5. Ben Roethlisberger, PIT	4251

Top 5 Total yardage, finish 7th in total QBR,  29 TD's vs 10 INT's He had 2 1,000 yards WR really doesn't sound like a loser , and yet our top runner finish with barely 500 yards.   Seriously it's 32 teams and our RB finishes at 36th, he got out rushed by 2 QB's and 2 non starters probably because his 3.3 yard average.   

Kicker is our leading scorer finished in the top 10, how nice if would have been if it was a WR or RB but it was our kicker,  at least Stafford gets an assist for at least getting him in range.

[WTF]

I didn't say it wouldn't help, obviously it would, but it still won't help Stafford when he chokes when the game is on the line.

The top two teams in the NFC(Philly & Minny) have average running games and it's not stopping them. BTW, just like a good running game enhances the passing game, the reverse is also true, good passing can open up the running game.

Stafford can whine about what he doesn't have, but that doesn't get the job done. We've both seen QB's that can do it without great or even good running.

I'm just sick of each and every year coming down to "Stafford needs more weapons", can't somebody sing a different tune once in awhile?

LMAO! I can sing it in Tenor, Bass or Opera style the song is always going to be get him the help he needs.  I can't even call him a Choke! The odds aren't always in his favor when you're tossing 40-45 passes in a game.  IMO it increase the potential for bad **** to happen.

[Oracle]

I didn't say it wouldn't help, obviously it would, but it still won't help Stafford when he chokes when the game is on the line.

The top two teams in the NFC(Philly & Minny) have average running games and it's not stopping them. BTW, just like a good running game enhances the passing game, the reverse is also true, good passing can open up the running game.

Stafford can whine about what he doesn't have, but that doesn't get the job done. We've both seen QB's that can do it without great or even good running.

I'm just sick of each and every year coming down to "Stafford needs more weapons", can't somebody sing a different tune once in awhile?

[WTF]

His hiring follows the six phases of a project,

Six Phases Of A Project

1.Wild Enthusiasm
2.Total Confusion
3.Disillusionment
4.Search for the Guilty
5.Punishment of the Innocent
6.Promotion of the Non-participants

It's not the running game, it's the QB, Stafford is a LOSER making major bucks.

Unfortunately, it's easier to fire the coach than find another QB with Stafford's capability, but if you follow the 6 phases, get ready for another round when we hire the next coach that will get us excited about what he'll do... until his ass gets fired.

LOL! Really then I guess we can say Andre is the total blame for the Pistons losing considering his 125 Million contract.   We say stuff like how much better the Pistons would be if they had this piece or that piece.   It's really not different when it comes to a lack of run  game for the Lions.  I can only imagine just how much more capable and contract worthy Matthew would be if he had just 1 back capable of a 1000 yard season instead of having 4 or 5 that collectively can't get 500 yards.   

The Lions need a run game like the Pistons need a PG for the same reason (the lack of negatively affects the whole team)

[Oracle]

His hiring follows the six phases of a project,

Six Phases Of A Project

1.Wild Enthusiasm
2.Total Confusion
3.Disillusionment
4.Search for the Guilty
5.Punishment of the Innocent
6.Promotion of the Non-participants

It's not the running game, it's the QB, Stafford is a LOSER making major bucks.

Unfortunately, it's easier to fire the coach than find another QB with Stafford's capability, but if you follow the 6 phases, get ready for another round when we hire the next coach that will get us excited about what he'll do... until his ass gets fired.

[BallinD]

ESPN

11. Detroit Pistons
2017-18 record: 20-15

PREV. RANK LAST WEEK THIS WEEK
13   2-1 @MIA, @PHI, HOU
With no obvious go-to scoring threat, (What about Tobias?) the Pistons have become one of the NBA's best at manufacturing points. Take for instance their movement on offense. According to Second Spectrum, Detroit utilizes over 107 off-ball screens per game, nearly 10 more than the second-ranked Warriors. The fulcrum for all of that action? Tobias Harris and Andre Drummond, who rank first and second in total screens set. Per Second Spectrum, Harris has set over 100 more off-ball screens than any other player in the NBA. -- Micah Adams Who knew?  I wonder where we rank in passing? I know we are near the bottom in getting to the line. That is unless Boban gets good minutes    

[WTF]

Being worst in the L makes everyone guilty of underachieving, including the unimaginative coach(es). Too many teams have middle of the road running games using no name talent. IMO we could have also.

IMO the run game impacts everything else and is the great cause of underachieving and I'm not so quick to lay blame on the o-line, play calling or coaching at this point.   

This team obviously have a problem IMO over the years putting the whole package of Elite Players together all at once.  That's what make these types of seasons so disheartening because they're always either on the cusp of being great.   We either have the RB and then we're missing the QB and WR or we have the QB and don't have the run game or WR or we got the QB and WR and don't have the run game.  

I just don't get it one would think we would have elite players all around Matthew and we don't.  We have some pretty good players and an above average defense but a lack of a solid run game impacts them.  Matthew has no run options so opposing team can lock in on WR and pressure Matthew because there's no run threat.  Needless to say our defense is spent by mid season because we can't keep them off the field.  More so it limits play calling

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