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Re: FORUM

Post  Murph on Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:01 am

BallinD wrote:I can agree we want to win make a trade to win now, but win what?  If we are not trading Weggie, then what is the point? What the hell would we win with Kennard, one of the best shooters if not the best shooter in the draft class and a playmaker and a burgeoning defender gone in his freshman year plus a first-round pick for a guy Mirotic who admittedly has defensivee issues and is a shooter, not a shooter and a playmaker.  If we do not change this thing up, by getting young and getting picks, we can expect to get the same things we;ve already gotten.  Next year this time we will be talking about how we kept tinkering, but did not get any damn better.  We lost the rookie contract, lost the promise of a future for what? a gunning rental?

I am so not in favor of Stupid Van Gundy mortgaging the future for an effort to gain the 8th seed in the playoffs.  He cannot be trusted.  And that is not next level.  That is a step back.  For some reason we threw in Middleton with Brandon Knight and now some want to throw in Kennard and a first round pick?  Wow!


BallinD...excellent post.

And I'm sure the reason that Kennard or our 1st round pick come up in every trade rumor is that those are among the few assets that we have that anyone wants and can afford. Maybe SJ is in demand also.
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Bradley

Post  Murph on Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:53 am

"The defensive stats I've seen on Bradley aren't very good. I discovered something disturbing about his defensive rating, using a feature at Basketball Reference. There, you can have them list his defensive rating from best to worst. Essentially his rating, once solid, has steadily gotten worse to the point of being pretty bad now. There are exceptions, but that's the general trend."

Sparma...correct.  And not only are Bradley's defensive stats not good, but his offensive stats are even worse.  I'm not sure what's going on with Bradley this year. He started out shooting well, but as the season progressed, his shooting is becoming more and more of an issue.  I guess the longer he's been away from Brad Stevens, the more his game deteriorates.

According to advanced stats, Bradley's Offensive Rating is ranked 14th best on the team, while his Offensive Win Shares are ranked 16th best on the team.  And this is on a team that scores the 3rd fewest ppg in the NBA.  

According to the advanced stats, Bradley is not just a bad offensive player, he's atrocious.  Bradley is one of the worst offensive players on one of the worst offensive teams in the NBA.


Oracle brought up an interesting point when he wrote:

"I posted an article about a guy that believed in the eye test about Bradley, and most times the eye test and the numbers are close, but not for him!"

Bradley is the odd player where the eye test (intuition) and the advanced stats diverge drastically.


Start Kennard!
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Rumors and the Ridiculous

Post  BallinD on Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:54 pm

I can agree we want to win make a trade to win now, but win what? If we are not trading Weggie, then what is the point? What the hell would we win with Kennard, one of the best shooters if not the best shooter in the draft class and a playmaker and a burgeoning defender gone in his freshman year plus a first-round pick for a guy Mirotic who admittedly has defensivee issues and is a shooter, not a shooter and a playmaker. If we do not change this thing up, by getting young and getting picks, we can expect to get the same things we;ve already gotten. Next year this time we will be talking about how we kept tinkering, but did not get any damn better. We lost the rookie contract, lost the promise of a future for what? a gunning rental?

I am so not in favor of Stupid Van Gundy mortgaging the future for an effort to gain the 8th seed in the playoffs. He cannot be trusted. And that is not next level. That is a step back. For some reason we threw in Middleton with Brandon Knight and now some want to throw in Kennard and a first round pick? Wow!

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Trades? & A word of praise for SVG

Post  Sparma on Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:21 pm

Was one rumor something like Reggie J and Kennard for Fournier (with Orlando declining) and ______ [maybe Leuer?) and our 1st for Mirotic (heard Chicago wanted a 1st rounder, at least)? If so, those would be very Stan-ly trades. Honestly, I think both trades, taken individually, might be upgrades. And I say that as someone who likes Kennard. If you're aiming for the skies, for the future, though, they're not the way to go.

Praise for SVG: Dude's a PG-whisperer. I know Jennings scored 50 in about his second game with the Bucks, but I think he was playing his best ball with SVG, before the injury. He goes down. Augustin steps in, starts looking nearly as good as Jennings. We trade him. Reggie plays very well for about a season and a half (even though I don't like that brand of PG play). Ish is signed, exceeds expectations. Our third string guy last year, name escapes me right now, did quite well playing for SVG, when he got minutes. Reggie J goes down, Buycks steps up, playing much better than I can remember anyone predicting. There's a downside, which is that SVG likes his PG in control of the ball, and features him. But still: good job, SVG, on that score.
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Don

Post  Oracle on Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:32 pm

Your logic is severely distorted, let's examine what you're saying.
Don wrote:
Bradley is your focus when there is no doubt that both AD and RJ are middle of the road players at best who take up salary that should go to top tier players. Are you watching or reading stats? Are you associated with KCP's agent.
1. Why wouldn't everyone here be focused on Bradley, he's a huge issue that we need to deal with. I have spent even more time on Reggie, less on Drummond because big men tend to develop slower and we should have realized he was a project(and likely pay as such).

2. I posted an article about a guy that believed in the eye test about Bradley, and most times the eye test and the numbers are close, but not for him!

3. What does this have to do with KCP? Bradley wasn't traded for KCP! I'm not interested in KCP anymore, that ship has sailed.

Do you believe what you're saying, and if you do, do you give a crap about this team?

Don wrote:Finally in reaction to Murph's comments on Bradley. I am not sure why some of you find it necessary to put Bradley under a microscope. Oracle says he can't defend anyone. Murph brings out his shooting percentage. Don't worry for sure Bradley is in high demand and if he reads some of your posts, there will be no way he will return. 
If you believe that, and cared about this team, you'd want to move Bradley ASAP, or maybe you subscribe to the SVG theory that it's better lose players for nothing.

Your statements do not match the reality of our situation.

You might want to start reading something, rather than watching games, only to see what you want to see.
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That Would Be Sad Commentary

Post  WTF on Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:53 pm

Sparma wrote:Unfortunately, based on my sense of SVG, I think Kennard and/or our 1st round pick are as likely/ more likely to be traded than Bradley. I see SVG as desperate to swing a trade to win as much as he can this season, at least to get into the playoffs.

I sense he's as well and likely to do something stupid like giving up Kennard and a 1st.  If SVG doing this to ensure an 8th seed then he really does need to be fired as both coach and president of this team.   Let I said whatever he does in terms of trade should be something that place them at Next Level status or in complete rebuild mode.  

Now I see SJ is part of trade talk now.
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Bradley

Post  Sparma on Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:26 pm

The defensive stats I've seen on Bradley aren't very good. I discovered something disturbing about his defensive rating, using a feature at Basketball Reference. There, you can have them list his defensive rating from best to worst. Essentially his rating, once solid, has steadily gotten worse to the point of being pretty bad now. There are exceptions, but that's the general trend.

That general trend counts against Lemon's caveat IF he started drawing the tough assignment early in his career. Alternatively, maybe he showed himself to be a tough defender and then drew the tough assignment.

That said, in agreement with Lemon's point/ question, I'd like to see a specific stat for Bradley that I've seen for a couple of other guys. Tolliver (as of that week at least) greatly diminished the shooting average of the principal guy he defended. The announcers said he was, like, 2nd best in the league. Boban, on the other hand, was about the worst center with that stat: the main guy he defended had his shooting percentage go way up [but not within 6 feet of the basket, as yet another stat indicated.] My guess is that that stat would put Bradley's overall defensive rating in a more forgiving light.

I like Bradley as a player, I do think he's a leader, but he's good at the current level of pay, not at the 15-18 mil a year which he stands to get from someone this summer. If there's a good trade available for him, I'd do it. Roll with Kennard for the rest of the season, at least, see where you are.

Unfortunately, based on my sense of SVG, I think Kennard and/or our 1st round pick are as likely/ more likely to be traded than Bradley. I see SVG as desperate to swing a trade to win as much as he can this season, at least to get into the playoffs.

(And of course I have a standing openness to trading Reggie J, if it's a solid return.)
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:34 pm

lemonpen wrote:
cool breeze wrote:
Murph wrote:Bradley continued his anemic shooting tonight by chucking up 6 - 16.  In the months of January, Bradley is shooting 35%.  That follows December in which he shot 36%.

Meanwhile Kennard is shooting a scorching 60% in January.  And defensively, Kennard actually gives up fewer points per 100 possessions than Bradley does this season.  

There is no reason to keep Bradley.  Kennard is the future.  In fact, Kennard is the present.  Kennard better than Bradley is right now.  

And Galloway can continue to supply hot shooting off the bench, hotter shooting than Bradley's.


Drummond had a monster game, with 22 pts, 20 rbds, 5 asts, 2 stls and 2 blks.  2 thumbs up


I thought the most exciting portion of this last game was at the start of the 2nd quarter until the 5 minute mark. The Pistons held the Nets to no field goals or at least that was what Greg Kelser said. The Piston defense was amazing during that streak. Dwight B., Bradley, Kennard, Johnson, Tolliver, Moreland and AD did the work. And the team consistently ran the motion offense as well that caused the Nets players to be forced to work hard on defense. Yet the Pistons scored anyway. The Nets were broken in the 2nd quarter. Everyone seemed to get into passing lanes and got deflections. Deflections are key for the Pistons. And Andre Drummond was outstanding in that area. AD came ready to play this game. if he could only bring that same type of energy to 80% of the rest of the games, the Pistons will climb up big time in the standings.

Kennard brought the basketball up the court and it was clear to me that he sees the court as well as any player on this team. His initial pass to get the half court offense started was outstanding. Not that Dwight B. our new Mr. BIgShot cannot do the job at point guard. There is no doubt in my mind that our point guard from the minor leagues is heads and shoulders superior to either Jackson or Smith for this particular team. Jackson might be more effective for a different type of team. I gave Smith mixed grades for this game. He didn't start out well organizing the offense. Then he played well in short spurts. What I didn't like was how he changed everything relating to how the Pistons were clicking so well at the start of the 3rd quarter up until the 7 minute mark. It was at that time that Smith went solo from end to end on 2 out of 3 possessions. I don't think he made any of those shots. What happened then was what has happened many times this season after Smith fails to run the half court offense. The players started to stand around and did not look like an organized team. They failed to get out to open shooters on defense too. There was a collapse in overall effort and it all started when the point guard didn't fulfill  the most important role or duty he has to his team. The point guard should be thinking of ways to make his teammates look batter not himself. Smith thought it was his time to shine or to shake things up when the team was playing outstanding basketball and didn't need to change anything. I thought SVG would bring in Mr. B but instead looked nervous pacing on the sidelines worrying about a comeback by the Nets. But no harm was done as nobody could make an open shot on that Nets team last night. They had the open shots but just couldn't get anything going.

I would like to mention two players that perhaps few fans noticed being that this was a blowout game. Henry Ellenson played some outstanding basketball in his minutes last night. His play did not involve scoring. Henry has been labeled as a player who is a liability on the defensive end and a weak rebounder. Last night I thought he did everything correct fundamentally on defense cutting off drivers, taking away the baseline, boxing out, being quick to the basketball with defensive rebounding, and moving his feet in a way that make me think he can be an outstanding defender when his time comes. We all know that Henry has a sweet looking jump shot. With very little playing time, he cannot show his shooting skill as nobody can just come in and find a sweet shooting rhythm.

Stanley Johnson is coming off a hip injury. He missed two shots badly. Yet he was part of that surge in the 2nd quarter playing like a mad man on defense. His man did not score all night long. Johnson didn't press and keep throwing up shots. He rebounded, set screens, and made some great passes to the right player at the right time.

Finally in reaction to Murph's comments on Bradley. I am not sure why some of you find it necessary to put Bradley under a microscope. Oracle says he can't defend anyone. Murph brings out his shooting percentage. Don't worry for sure Bradley is in high demand and if he reads some of your posts, there will be no way he will return. It is funny that so many of Bradley's teammates think he is the most important player their team this season. He has brought something different that the team did not have last season. Kennard and Bullock have constantly mentioned how Bradley has helped them improve as players. If you watched the interview before this game with Bradley it is clear that Greg Kelser believes the same way that I do about Bradley. He is a leader. He is a guy who prepares for games unlike anyone we had last season. How is Bradley helping his teammates prepare for specific opponents? Many have said in the past that Avery Bradley will be a coach someday. He has the mind of a coach and understands the game. THAT IS VALUABLE PISTON FANS. We had idiots leading this team last season. Can you remember how the team looked after the Christmas holidays last season? It was the blind leading the blind. It doesn't matter what any of us believe or say on this forum. Stan Van Gundy is not an idiot like many of you think. He knows that the key to this season is how Andre Drummond prepares and plays the remainder of the games. Stan knows that he is really lucky to have Bradley as a leader as well. Think for a second and reflect back to when you played organized basketball on your team whether it be high school, college or the pros. You had one or two leaders. Maybe one of the leaders didn't score many points at all but was a guy you loved playing basketball with because he was smart and made the team better. Remember one player who gave you confidence in yourself and made you feel like it was one for all and all for one like the 3 musketeers. This team of players seem to really click. I do not think Reggie Jackson fits this team at all. But one player like Avery Bradley can make a difference in how his teammates approach playing basketball. The most important player on the team is Andre Drummond. Who can light a fire in his spirit to bring out his best? No coach can do it. No coach can transform AD into a monster. I have been thinking that it is time to trade AD because for sure the Pistons could get one or two good basketball players for him. But the Pistons get more players like Avery Bradley playing with AD, that might motivate him to become the monster this team needs on the defensive end. And last night AD was alert from the start to finish and his  passing in the motion offense was outstanding. But best of all was how effective his hands were on defense. He had so many deflections it was crazy. One thing is certain. The Pistons play basketball better without Reggie Jackson. AD needs relief from Reggie's influence. AD needs a more serious player to influence him like Avery Bradley who is like an Eagle Scout in the world of the NBA. Always be prepared.

Now don't you sound just like a fans fan.  Getting all lathered up over a W against the Nets like it was the Warriors.  I sure would like to have seen Luke bring the ball up in the game prior to this one.  (hint: #9)  

I must be corrected again because I appreciated the way this group of Pistons played the last game? It was the Nets. I forgot for a moment. But last season our Pistons were blown out by teams like the Nets. Sorry for documenting how well our team looked at times and how hard they worked in this game. I just loved this last game and how our Players played on both offense and defense. Every game is different. Nothing is easy. No wonder NBA players have difficulty bonding with fans. You can never please them. A game is a game. In this one many of our players looked really good. Those Piston fans who watched had to be happy too.

And I sure like Dwight.Piston management has found a point guard who can actually play point guard. Great job SVG. Now make him the starting point guard. Who in hell needs Sessions? As Greg Kelser said last night, it appears that Dwight will be in the NBA for a long time. This guy has no fear.

I might scream when Reggie returns. Will that be allowed?

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Yes They Do

Post  WTF on Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:07 pm

lemonpen wrote:
WTF wrote:
lemonpen wrote:I would suggest having a little data in hand when you look a guy in the eye as he is being demoted. Just sayin.

Murph offered data and you rejected it calling it misleading based on your (potent scorers) theory lol

Most Eye Test don't require much data you see what you see and exercise within of the realms of tangibles and intangibles.   In fact Eye Test is used all the time examples being maybe Rodman oppose to Mark, or Prince over Curry.  We clearly see the advantages in the numbers yet dare not water it down on a theory of potent scorers faced.  

Really we argue all the time that more PT is required in Kennard case and the lack of it holds him back.  We could also argue how a player defends because there is no single method of defending.  I think the way Luke defends  makes/or will make him better as well if not equally effective.
One of the first things Stan did upon his arrival was to enhance the analytics group.  I can't believe you think billion dollar corporations, which these are, make decisions on gut feel.

@lemonpen corporations do it all the time even with analytics in hand and no clear cut indication of it's success.   It obvious Gore didn't use the them when hire decided on hiring SVG. There were far better options then SVG and certainly whatever analytics SVG was using or still using doesn't seem to work any better.  Every move SVG made to this point was largely based on gut feelings starting with Jodie Meeks.  

I spent 30 years analyzing data for a company numbers only tells part of the truth not all the truth.  If this advance analytical team SVG put it place is so reliable then why do we question his line up, scheme, rotation and so on?
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Re: FORUM

Post  lemonpen on Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:43 pm

WTF wrote:
lemonpen wrote:I would suggest having a little data in hand when you look a guy in the eye as he is being demoted. Just sayin.

Murph offered data and you rejected it calling it misleading based on your (potent scorers) theory lol

Most Eye Test don't require much data you see what you see and exercise within of the realms of tangibles and intangibles.   In fact Eye Test is used all the time examples being maybe Rodman oppose to Mark, or Prince over Curry.  We clearly see the advantages in the numbers yet dare not water it down on a theory of potent scorers faced.  

Really we argue all the time that more PT is required in Kennard case and the lack of it holds him back.  We could also argue how a player defends because there is no single method of defending.  I think the way Luke defends  makes/or will make him better as well if not equally effective.
One of the first things Stan did upon his arrival was to enhance the analytics group. I can't believe you think billion dollar corporations, which these are, make decisions on gut feel.
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I Guess I'm Not So High On Bradley

Post  WTF on Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:14 pm

lemonpen wrote:I would suggest having a little data in hand when you look a guy in the eye as he is being demoted. Just sayin.

Murph offered data and you rejected it calling it misleading based on your (potent scorers) theory lol

Most Eye Test don't require much data you see what you see and exercise within of the realms of tangibles and intangibles.   In fact Eye Test is used all the time examples being maybe Rodman oppose to Mark, or Prince over Curry.  We clearly see the advantages in the numbers yet dare not water it down on a theory of potent scorers faced.  

Really we argue all the time that more PT is required in Kennard case and the lack of it holds him back.  We could also argue how a player defends because there is no single method of defending.  I think the way Luke defends  makes/or will make him better as well if not equally effective.
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WTF

Post  lemonpen on Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:50 pm

WTF wrote:How long is Long Term it seems we've been on that thing for quite a while now. Isn't it about time we think short term like today or at least find a balance between the right now and tomorrow?

In short term we should dump the bulk of the roster and start over then focus on a long term plan to develop and I mean truly develop a new core of young players from top to bottom.   

AD and Harris are good pieces but neither are pieces to build around so I would be willing to part with both if the exchange is fair not necessarily balanced or equal but fair.  

Considering the talent we do have currently one would think that are next move or 2 should be netting us immediate results and instance gratification.  What we do going forward as far as trades goes should put us at next level.
The only point I was making is that we could probably do better than Ramon Sessions.  If Stan is gonna sacrifice our 1st rnd Pick-Players-cap space in some last ditch effort to save the season and his hide he better get something REAL good in return.  Something that will deliver for the foreseeable future.  And I know I'm probably asking too much.
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Re: FORUM

Post  lemonpen on Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:44 pm

cool breeze wrote:
Murph wrote:Bradley continued his anemic shooting tonight by chucking up 6 - 16.  In the months of January, Bradley is shooting 35%.  That follows December in which he shot 36%.

Meanwhile Kennard is shooting a scorching 60% in January.  And defensively, Kennard actually gives up fewer points per 100 possessions than Bradley does this season.  

There is no reason to keep Bradley.  Kennard is the future.  In fact, Kennard is the present.  Kennard better than Bradley is right now.  

And Galloway can continue to supply hot shooting off the bench, hotter shooting than Bradley's.


Drummond had a monster game, with 22 pts, 20 rbds, 5 asts, 2 stls and 2 blks.  2 thumbs up

I thought the most exciting portion of this last game was at the start of the 2nd quarter until the 5 minute mark. The Pistons held the Nets to no field goals or at least that was what Greg Kelser said. The Piston defense was amazing during that streak. Dwight B., Bradley, Kennard, Johnson, Tolliver, Moreland and AD did the work. And the team consistently ran the motion offense as well that caused the Nets players to be forced to work hard on defense. Yet the Pistons scored anyway. The Nets were broken in the 2nd quarter. Everyone seemed to get into passing lanes and got deflections. Deflections are key for the Pistons. And Andre Drummond was outstanding in that area. AD came ready to play this game. if he could only bring that same type of energy to 80% of the rest of the games, the Pistons will climb up big time in the standings.

Kennard brought the basketball up the court and it was clear to me that he sees the court as well as any player on this team. His initial pass to get the half court offense started was outstanding. Not that Dwight B. our new Mr. BIgShot cannot do the job at point guard. There is no doubt in my mind that our point guard from the minor leagues is heads and shoulders superior to either Jackson or Smith for this particular team. Jackson might be more effective for a different type of team. I gave Smith mixed grades for this game. He didn't start out well organizing the offense. Then he played well in short spurts. What I didn't like was how he changed everything relating to how the Pistons were clicking so well at the start of the 3rd quarter up until the 7 minute mark. It was at that time that Smith went solo from end to end on 2 out of 3 possessions. I don't think he made any of those shots. What happened then was what has happened many times this season after Smith fails to run the half court offense. The players started to stand around and did not look like an organized team. They failed to get out to open shooters on defense too. There was a collapse in overall effort and it all started when the point guard didn't fulfill  the most important role or duty he has to his team. The point guard should be thinking of ways to make his teammates look batter not himself. Smith thought it was his time to shine or to shake things up when the team was playing outstanding basketball and didn't need to change anything. I thought SVG would bring in Mr. B but instead looked nervous pacing on the sidelines worrying about a comeback by the Nets. But no harm was done as nobody could make an open shot on that Nets team last night. They had the open shots but just couldn't get anything going.

I would like to mention two players that perhaps few fans noticed being that this was a blowout game. Henry Ellenson played some outstanding basketball in his minutes last night. His play did not involve scoring. Henry has been labeled as a player who is a liability on the defensive end and a weak rebounder. Last night I thought he did everything correct fundamentally on defense cutting off drivers, taking away the baseline, boxing out, being quick to the basketball with defensive rebounding, and moving his feet in a way that make me think he can be an outstanding defender when his time comes. We all know that Henry has a sweet looking jump shot. With very little playing time, he cannot show his shooting skill as nobody can just come in and find a sweet shooting rhythm.

Stanley Johnson is coming off a hip injury. He missed two shots badly. Yet he was part of that surge in the 2nd quarter playing like a mad man on defense. His man did not score all night long. Johnson didn't press and keep throwing up shots. He rebounded, set screens, and made some great passes to the right player at the right time.

Finally in reaction to Murph's comments on Bradley. I am not sure why some of you find it necessary to put Bradley under a microscope. Oracle says he can't defend anyone. Murph brings out his shooting percentage. Don't worry for sure Bradley is in high demand and if he reads some of your posts, there will be no way he will return. It is funny that so many of Bradley's teammates think he is the most important player their team this season. He has brought something different that the team did not have last season. Kennard and Bullock have constantly mentioned how Bradley has helped them improve as players. If you watched the interview before this game with Bradley it is clear that Greg Kelser believes the same way that I do about Bradley. He is a leader. He is a guy who prepares for games unlike anyone we had last season. How is Bradley helping his teammates prepare for specific opponents? Many have said in the past that Avery Bradley will be a coach someday. He has the mind of a coach and understands the game. THAT IS VALUABLE PISTON FANS. We had idiots leading this team last season. Can you remember how the team looked after the Christmas holidays last season? It was the blind leading the blind. It doesn't matter what any of us believe or say on this forum. Stan Van Gundy is not an idiot like many of you think. He knows that the key to this season is how Andre Drummond prepares and plays the remainder of the games. Stan knows that he is really lucky to have Bradley as a leader as well. Think for a second and reflect back to when you played organized basketball on your team whether it be high school, college or the pros. You had one or two leaders. Maybe one of the leaders didn't score many points at all but was a guy you loved playing basketball with because he was smart and made the team better. Remember one player who gave you confidence in yourself and made you feel like it was one for all and all for one like the 3 musketeers. This team of players seem to really click. I do not think Reggie Jackson fits this team at all. But one player like Avery Bradley can make a difference in how his teammates approach playing basketball. The most important player on the team is Andre Drummond. Who can light a fire in his spirit to bring out his best? No coach can do it. No coach can transform AD into a monster. I have been thinking that it is time to trade AD because for sure the Pistons could get one or two good basketball players for him. But the Pistons get more players like Avery Bradley playing with AD, that might motivate him to become the monster this team needs on the defensive end. And last night AD was alert from the start to finish and his  passing in the motion offense was outstanding. But best of all was how effective his hands were on defense. He had so many deflections it was crazy. One thing is certain. The Pistons play basketball better without Reggie Jackson. AD needs relief from Reggie's influence. AD needs a more serious player to influence him like Avery Bradley who is like an Eagle Scout in the world of the NBA. Always be prepared.

Now don't you sound just like a fans fan. Getting all lathered up over a W against the Nets like it was the Warriors. I sure would like to have seen Luke bring the ball up in the game prior to this one. (hint: #9)
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Dude ????? Dude !!!!

Post  lemonpen on Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:33 pm

WTF wrote:
lemonpen wrote:
Murph wrote:Bradley continued his anemic shooting tonight by chucking up 6 - 16.  In the months of January, Bradley is shooting 35%.  That follows December in which he shot 36%.

Meanwhile Kennard is shooting a scorching 60% in January.  And defensively, Kennard actually gives up fewer points per 100 possessions than Bradley does this season.  

There is no reason to keep Bradley.  Kennard is the future.  In fact, Kennard is the present.  Kennard better than Bradley is right now.  

And Galloway can continue to supply hot shooting off the bench, hotter shooting than Bradley's.


Drummond had a monster game, with 22 pts, 20 rbds, 5 asts, 2 stls and 2 blks.  2 thumbs up

Your use of the defensive stat is a bit misleading.  Bradley faces farrrrrrrrrr more potent scorers than Luke so it stands to reason he will surrender more pts per 100 possessions.  I would venture to say the difference is so stark that Avery could hold every opponent under average and still lose the point-per-100-possession comparison.

The author of one of the side articles supports more PT for Kennard (over Bradley) based solely on the uber shooting efficiency Luke is presently demonstrating.  


I wouldn't say it's that misleading more than saying they can be argued base on the idea Bradley faces more potent scorers.   The eye test really IMO is the more measurable factor and the eye test alone again IMO say's Luke might be a better fit for starting.  It is undeniably misleading when insinuating Luke is a BETTER defender.

One can make the assumption that Bradley spends the bulk of his minutes facing more potent scorers because he starts but we can't make the assumption Luke hasn't faced the same potent at all in the minutes he's on the floor.  At some point of a game it's very likely that Luke spent time guarding the opposing team starting SG.  Last night Avery played 23 minutes against the starter while Luke faced him for 3 minutes. Eyes do lie. When that matchup situation flips there will be unambiguous data with which to make decisions.

From solely on a offensive perspective Luke put up 13 points as did Bradley in fewer shots and far less misses so it to can be argued that in itself make Bradley more a defensive liability if he bad shooting results in points for the opposing team.  It can be argued that what you do offensively impacts what happens defensively.  Without a doubt, but why convolute the obvious. Currently, Kennard is outshooting Avery by a long shot.

I would stick with the Eye Test on this one and perhaps some gut as well, it tells me Luke would far equally as well guarding the same players Bradley faces given an equal amount of PT.

I would suggest having a little data in hand when you look a guy in the eye as he is being demoted. Just sayin.
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Adavntage Luke

Post  WTF on Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:33 pm

lemonpen wrote:
Murph wrote:Bradley continued his anemic shooting tonight by chucking up 6 - 16.  In the months of January, Bradley is shooting 35%.  That follows December in which he shot 36%.

Meanwhile Kennard is shooting a scorching 60% in January.  And defensively, Kennard actually gives up fewer points per 100 possessions than Bradley does this season.  

There is no reason to keep Bradley.  Kennard is the future.  In fact, Kennard is the present.  Kennard better than Bradley is right now.  

And Galloway can continue to supply hot shooting off the bench, hotter shooting than Bradley's.


Drummond had a monster game, with 22 pts, 20 rbds, 5 asts, 2 stls and 2 blks.  2 thumbs up

Your use of the defensive stat is a bit misleading.  Bradley faces farrrrrrrrrr more potent scorers than Luke so it stands to reason he will surrender more pts per 100 possessions.  I would venture to say the difference is so stark that Avery could hold every opponent under average and still lose the point-per-100-possession comparison.

The author of one of the side articles supports more PT for Kennard (over Bradley) based solely on the uber shooting efficiency Luke is presently demonstrating.  


I wouldn't say it's that misleading more than saying they can be argued base on the idea Bradley faces more potent scorers.   The eye test really IMO is the more measurable factor and the eye test alone again IMO say's Luke might be a better fit for starting.  

One can make the assumption that Bradley spends the bulk of his minutes facing more potent scorers because he starts but we can't make the assumption Luke hasn't faced the same potent at all in the minutes he's on the floor.  At some point of a game it's very likely that Luke spent time guarding the opposing team starting SG.  

From solely on a offensive perspective Luke put up 13 points as did Bradley in fewer shots and far less misses so it to can be argued that in itself make Bradley more a defensive liability if he bad shooting results in points for the opposing team.  It can be argued that what you do offensively impacts what happens defensively.  

I would stick with the Eye Test on this one and perhaps some gut as well, it tells me Luke would far equally as well guarding the same players Bradley faces given an equal amount of PT.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:56 am

Murph wrote:Bradley continued his anemic shooting tonight by chucking up 6 - 16.  In the months of January, Bradley is shooting 35%.  That follows December in which he shot 36%.

Meanwhile Kennard is shooting a scorching 60% in January.  And defensively, Kennard actually gives up fewer points per 100 possessions than Bradley does this season.  

There is no reason to keep Bradley.  Kennard is the future.  In fact, Kennard is the present.  Kennard better than Bradley is right now.  

And Galloway can continue to supply hot shooting off the bench, hotter shooting than Bradley's.


Drummond had a monster game, with 22 pts, 20 rbds, 5 asts, 2 stls and 2 blks.  2 thumbs up

I thought the most exciting portion of this last game was at the start of the 2nd quarter until the 5 minute mark. The Pistons held the Nets to no field goals or at least that was what Greg Kelser said. The Piston defense was amazing during that streak. Dwight B., Bradley, Kennard, Johnson, Tolliver, Moreland and AD did the work. And the team consistently ran the motion offense as well that caused the Nets players to be forced to work hard on defense. Yet the Pistons scored anyway. The Nets were broken in the 2nd quarter. Everyone seemed to get into passing lanes and got deflections. Deflections are key for the Pistons. And Andre Drummond was outstanding in that area. AD came ready to play this game. if he could only bring that same type of energy to 80% of the rest of the games, the Pistons will climb up big time in the standings.

Kennard brought the basketball up the court and it was clear to me that he sees the court as well as any player on this team. His initial pass to get the half court offense started was outstanding. Not that Dwight B. our new Mr. BIgShot cannot do the job at point guard. There is no doubt in my mind that our point guard from the minor leagues is heads and shoulders superior to either Jackson or Smith for this particular team. Jackson might be more effective for a different type of team. I gave Smith mixed grades for this game. He didn't start out well organizing the offense. Then he played well in short spurts. What I didn't like was how he changed everything relating to how the Pistons were clicking so well at the start of the 3rd quarter up until the 7 minute mark. It was at that time that Smith went solo from end to end on 2 out of 3 possessions. I don't think he made any of those shots. What happened then was what has happened many times this season after Smith fails to run the half court offense. The players started to stand around and did not look like an organized team. They failed to get out to open shooters on defense too. There was a collapse in overall effort and it all started when the point guard didn't fulfill the most important role or duty he has to his team. The point guard should be thinking of ways to make his teammates look batter not himself. Smith thought it was his time to shine or to shake things up when the team was playing outstanding basketball and didn't need to change anything. I thought SVG would bring in Mr. B but instead looked nervous pacing on the sidelines worrying about a comeback by the Nets. But no harm was done as nobody could make an open shot on that Nets team last night. They had the open shots but just couldn't get anything going.

I would like to mention two players that perhaps few fans noticed being that this was a blowout game. Henry Ellenson played some outstanding basketball in his minutes last night. His play did not involve scoring. Henry has been labeled as a player who is a liability on the defensive end and a weak rebounder. Last night I thought he did everything correct fundamentally on defense cutting off drivers, taking away the baseline, boxing out, being quick to the basketball with defensive rebounding, and moving his feet in a way that make me think he can be an outstanding defender when his time comes. We all know that Henry has a sweet looking jump shot. With very little playing time, he cannot show his shooting skill as nobody can just come in and find a sweet shooting rhythm.

Stanley Johnson is coming off a hip injury. He missed two shots badly. Yet he was part of that surge in the 2nd quarter playing like a mad man on defense. His man did not score all night long. Johnson didn't press and keep throwing up shots. He rebounded, set screens, and made some great passes to the right player at the right time.

Finally in reaction to Murph's comments on Bradley. I am not sure why some of you find it necessary to put Bradley under a microscope. Oracle says he can't defend anyone. Murph brings out his shooting percentage. Don't worry for sure Bradley is in high demand and if he reads some of your posts, there will be no way he will return. It is funny that so many of Bradley's teammates think he is the most important player their team this season. He has brought something different that the team did not have last season. Kennard and Bullock have constantly mentioned how Bradley has helped them improve as players. If you watched the interview before this game with Bradley it is clear that Greg Kelser believes the same way that I do about Bradley. He is a leader. He is a guy who prepares for games unlike anyone we had last season. How is Bradley helping his teammates prepare for specific opponents? Many have said in the past that Avery Bradley will be a coach someday. He has the mind of a coach and understands the game. THAT IS VALUABLE PISTON FANS. We had idiots leading this team last season. Can you remember how the team looked after the Christmas holidays last season? It was the blind leading the blind. It doesn't matter what any of us believe or say on this forum. Stan Van Gundy is not an idiot like many of you think. He knows that the key to this season is how Andre Drummond prepares and plays the remainder of the games. Stan knows that he is really lucky to have Bradley as a leader as well. Think for a second and reflect back to when you played organized basketball on your team whether it be high school, college or the pros. You had one or two leaders. Maybe one of the leaders didn't score many points at all but was a guy you loved playing basketball with because he was smart and made the team better. Remember one player who gave you confidence in yourself and made you feel like it was one for all and all for one like the 3 musketeers. This team of players seem to really click. I do not think Reggie Jackson fits this team at all. But one player like Avery Bradley can make a difference in how his teammates approach playing basketball. The most important player on the team is Andre Drummond. Who can light a fire in his spirit to bring out his best? No coach can do it. No coach can transform AD into a monster. I have been thinking that it is time to trade AD because for sure the Pistons could get one or two good basketball players for him. But the Pistons get more players like Avery Bradley playing with AD, that might motivate him to become the monster this team needs on the defensive end. And last night AD was alert from the start to finish and his passing in the motion offense was outstanding. But best of all was how effective his hands were on defense. He had so many deflections it was crazy. One thing is certain. The Pistons play basketball better without Reggie Jackson. AD needs relief from Reggie's influence. AD needs a more serious player to influence him like Avery Bradley who is like an Eagle Scout in the world of the NBA. Always be prepared.

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Luke

Post  lemonpen on Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:52 am

Murph wrote:Bradley continued his anemic shooting tonight by chucking up 6 - 16.  In the months of January, Bradley is shooting 35%.  That follows December in which he shot 36%.

Meanwhile Kennard is shooting a scorching 60% in January.  And defensively, Kennard actually gives up fewer points per 100 possessions than Bradley does this season.  

There is no reason to keep Bradley.  Kennard is the future.  In fact, Kennard is the present.  Kennard better than Bradley is right now.  

And Galloway can continue to supply hot shooting off the bench, hotter shooting than Bradley's.


Drummond had a monster game, with 22 pts, 20 rbds, 5 asts, 2 stls and 2 blks.  2 thumbs up

Your use of the defensive stat is a bit misleading. Bradley faces farrrrrrrrrr more potent scorers than Luke so it stands to reason he will surrender more pts per 100 possessions. I would venture to say the difference is so stark that Avery could hold every opponent under average and still lose the point-per-100-possession comparison.

The author of one of the side articles supports more PT for Kennard (over Bradley) based solely on the uber shooting efficiency Luke is presently demonstrating.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:47 am

Murph wrote:Bradley continued his anemic shooting tonight by chucking up 6 - 16.  In the months of January, Bradley is shooting 35%.  That follows December in which he shot 36%.

Meanwhile Kennard is shooting a scorching 60% in January.  And defensively, Kennard actually gives up fewer points per 100 possessions than Bradley does this season.  

There is no reason to keep Bradley.  Kennard is the future.  In fact, Kennard is the present.  Kennard better than Bradley is right now.  

And Galloway can continue to supply hot shooting off the bench, hotter shooting than Bradley's.


Drummond had a monster game, with 22 pts, 20 rbds, 5 asts, 2 stls and 2 blks.  2 thumbs up

I thought the most exciting portion of this last game was at the start of the 2nd quarter until the 5 minute mark. The Pistons held the Nets to no field goals or at least that was what Greg Kelser said. The Piston defense was amazing during that streak. Dwight B., Bradley, Kennard, Johnson, Tolliver, Moreland and AD did the work. And the team consistently ran the motion offense as well that caused the Nets players to be forced to work hard on defense. Yet the Pistons scored anyway. The Nets were broken in the 2nd quarter. Everyone seemed to get into passing lanes and got deflections. Deflections are key for the Pistons. And Andre Drummond was outstanding in that area. AD came ready to play this game. if he could only bring that same type of energy to 80% of the rest of the games, the Pistons will climb up big time in the standings.

Kennard brought the basketball up the court and it was clear to me that he sees the court as well as any player on this team. His initial pass to get the half court offense started was outstanding. Not that Dwight B. our new Mr. BIgShot cannot do the job at point guard. There is no doubt in my mind that our point guard from the minor leagues is heads and shoulders superior to either Jackson or Smith for this particular team. Jackson might be more effective for a different type of team. I gave Smith mixed grades for this game. He didn't start out well organizing the offense. Then he played well in short spurts. What I didn't like was how he changed everything relating to how the Pistons were clicking so well at the start of the 3rd quarter up until the 7 minute mark. It was at that time that Smith went solo from end to end on 2 out of 3 possessions. I don't think he made any of those shots. What happened then was what has happened many times this season after Smith fails to run the half court offense. The players started to stand around and did not look like an organized team. They failed to get out to open shooters on defense too. There was a collapse in overall effort and it all started when the point guard didn't fulfill the most important role or duty he has to his team. The point guard should be thinking of ways to make his teammates look batter not himself. Smith thought it was his time to shine or to shake things up when the team was playing outstanding basketball and didn't need to change anything. I thought SVG would bring in Mr. B but instead looked nervous pacing on the sidelines worrying about a comeback by the Nets. But no harm was done as nobody could make an open shot on that Nets team last night. They had the open shots but just couldn't get anything going.

I would like to mention two players that perhaps few fans noticed being that this was a blowout game. Henry Ellenson played some outstanding basketball in his minutes last night. His play did not involve scoring. Henry has been labeled as a player who is a liability on the defensive end and a weak rebounder. Last night I thought he did everything correct fundamentally on defense cutting off drivers, taking away the baseline, boxing out, being quick to the basketball with defensive rebounding, and moving his feet in a way that make me think he can be an outstanding defender when his time comes. We all know that Henry has a sweet looking jump shot. With very little playing time, he cannot show his shooting skill as nobody can just come in and find a sweet shooting rhythm.

Stanley Johnson is coming off a hip injury. He missed two shots badly. Yet he was part of that surge in the 2nd quarter playing like a mad man on defense. His man did not score all night long. Johnson didn't press and keep throwing up shots. He rebounded, set screens, and made some great passes to the right player at the right time.

Finally in reaction to Murph's comments on Bradley. I am not sure why some of you find it necessary to put Bradley under a microscope. Oracle says he can't defend anyone. Murph brings out his shooting percentage. Don't worry for sure Bradley is in high demand and if he reads some of your posts, there will be no way he will return. It is funny that so many of Bradley's teammates think he is the most important player their team this season. He has brought something different that the team did not have last season. Kennard and Bullock have constantly mentioned how Bradley has helped them improve as players. If you watched the interview before this game with Bradley it is clear that Greg Kelser believes the same way that I do about Bradley. He is a leader. He is a guy who prepares for games unlike anyone we had last season. How is Bradley helping his teammates prepare for specific opponents? Many have said in the past that Avery Bradley will be a coach someday. He has the mind of a coach and understands the game. THAT IS VALUABLE PISTON FANS. We had idiots leading this team last season. Can you remember how the team looked after the Christmas holidays last season? It was the blind leading the blind. It doesn't matter what any of us believe or say on this forum. Stan Van Gundy is not an idiot like many of you think. He knows that the key to this season is how Andre Drummond prepares and plays the remainder of the games. Stan knows that he is really lucky to have Bradley as a leader as well. Think for a second and reflect back to when you played organized basketball on your team whether it be high school, college or the pros. You had one or two leaders. Maybe one of the leaders didn't score many points at all but was a guy you loved playing basketball with because he was smart and made the team better. Remember one player who gave you confidence in yourself and made you feel like it was one for all and all for one like the 3 musketeers. This team of players seem to really click. I do not think Reggie Jackson fits this team at all. But one player like Avery Bradley can make a difference in how his teammates approach playing basketball. The most important player on the team is Andre Drummond. Who can light a fire in his spirit to bring out his best? No coach can do it. No coach can transform AD into a monster. I have been thinking that it is time to trade AD because for sure the Pistons could get one or two good basketball players for him. But the Pistons get more players like Avery Bradley playing with AD, that might motivate him to become the monster this team needs on the defensive end. And last night AD was alert from the start to finish and his passing in the motion offense was outstanding. But best of all was how effective his hands were on defense. He had so many deflections it was crazy. One thing is certain. The Pistons play basketball better without Reggie Jackson. AD needs relief from Reggie's influence. AD needs a more serious player to influence him like Avery Bradley who is like an Eagle Scout in the world of the NBA. Always be prepared.

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Re: FORUM

Post  Murph on Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:03 pm

Bradley continued his anemic shooting tonight by chucking up 6 - 16.  In the months of January, Bradley is shooting 35%.  That follows December in which he shot 36%.

Meanwhile Kennard is shooting a scorching 60% in January.  And defensively, Kennard actually gives up fewer points per 100 possessions than Bradley does this season.  

There is no reason to keep Bradley.  Kennard is the future.  In fact, Kennard is the present.  Kennard better than Bradley is right now.  

And Galloway can continue to supply hot shooting off the bench, hotter shooting than Bradley's.


Drummond had a monster game, with 22 pts, 20 rbds, 5 asts, 2 stls and 2 blks. 2 thumbs up
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:05 pm

Oracle wrote:
Don wrote:You have AD on that list of keepers and Avery Bradley off the list. If your analysis was based on this last game then you must have been sleeping. First off the coach did not cause Bullock to be an ineffective player for the entire 2nd half. The coach did decide on using Ish Smith and he was the target of the opposing coach as Moore scored at will against Smith in the first half and Rondo took Smith to the basket for a layup in one of the deciding plays towards the end of the game. Smith missed a layup under the basket just before that play. 
Makes perfect sense. you never got excited when KCP did the same thing.

But Bradley gave up more points that he scored, his defense was horrible, they went over, around and through Bradley's defense, a very poor showing. Dump the runt ASAP!

@Ballin: You're right, we do need play makers, and here I'll give Bradley some credit. While Stanley is an underrated play maker, he's simply not good enough right now.

@Wise: I'd take a flyer on Mirotic to see how he fits the rest of the year, if it doesn't work, let him walk.

Buycks(pronounced as Bikes) continues to surprise! He's got some rough edges, but the kid has to tools to work with, decent size, can get to and finish(mostly) around the rim, but he does need to work on his passing.

Funny but if you are referring to the last game, Ish Smith was the player who had great difficulty guarding anyone Oracle. Moore scored something like 14 first half points. The game plan was for Moore to get iso on Smith. He went over, through and around Smith. If Bradley is a horrible defender, you should talk to Stan Van Gundy because Avery draws the assignment to defend every opponent's best guard. I don't think that I have ever heard of any coach ever saying that Bradley is not a superior defender. And he has a long history of causing turnovers in crunch time. Who knows how well Pope would have done this season if he had been signed for the max contract he wanted. I would caution you to reserve judgment on Bradley until this season is over if he does make it before being traded. It is no secret that other teams would love to add Bradley to their team. It is so funny to me to read posts from Piston fans who would be happy as a clam to see him go. Be careful what you wish for Oracle. I for one will be sad when he leaves. The guy gives max effort. He is a good teammate who helps other players get better.

Meanwhile, our franchise player AD gets a free pass regardless of the amount of mental and physical mistakes he continues to make. Just check his amazing stats. He should be an All Star. Some just don't get it that stats mean next to nothing when it comes to winning games and playing smart when it is necessary to play smart. So far with all this time wearing a Piston uniform I have seen no breakthrough relating to improving AD's basketball IQ or passion for improvement on defense. I for one was especially disappointed relating to this last game where AD stood and allowed Cousins to get that big offensive rebound. No screen out. Did someone overhear AD talking to SVG after the game.
( I am sorry coach. Maybe I cost us the game again. Got to remember to get a body on my man. Yes coach Cousins was my assignment. I just forgot. And sorry too for not going for the offensive rebound when Bradley had to put that off balance shot in the lane. I got caught watching the game again instead of anticipating the shot might miss.) I am not even mentioning some of AD's bogus passes in that game. Does a top tier type player make those kind of mistakes? AD is trying harder this season but I just cannot see how any coach can trust him from one moment to the next. I am referring here to a coach who might have a top tier team that has a chance to win the championship. You just can't afford to have a player like that who takes up over $20Mil of your salary. I don't trust Cousins either. Neither player can screw their heads on right at any given moment and come prepared to give their team what the team needs when they need it. Cousins is for sure a better player when he wants to be but as a fan, I would hate caring or pulling for him or having to watch him play every game of the season. Ad is at least fun to watch at times when he is all in with effort and confidence. I do care more that AD becomes a successful player. I think he really wants to be that kind of player. It is Andre's mind that betrays him. He has a concentration problem especially when it comes to key moments where he forgets to screen out his man. Everyone in the league knows Andre's weakness with concentration and at times effort and they look to take advantage of those moments. Before each game I say a little prayer hoping that AD will play a superior game instead of making 20 or so mental mistakes. The game is fast and everyone makes mistakes. But AD makes over $20M and has a lot of experience. There should be no excuse for lack of effort of getting a body on his man or going for a up for grabs offensive rebound with time running out.

Bradley is your focus when there is no doubt that both AD and RJ are middle of the road players at best who take up salary that should go to top tier players. Are you watching or reading stats? Are you associated with KCP's agent. I admit that I do not read stats. I just have time to watch the games and think about which players played well or contributed a lot to a win and those who contributed a lot in causing loses. Anyone can miss shots. It is ignoring of not knowing the basic fundamentals of playing basketball that gets me upset. Who knows but this Bradley obsession is much like the Stanley Johnson obsession others have on this forum. Throw them in the gutter. Get rid of Ellenson who doesn't even get playing time yet while RJ and AD keep running the show. That damn those 21 year olds who have disappointed some fans way too many times. Johnson will be a successful player in the NBA. I have no doubt about that unless he sustains an injury like Brandon Knight. God I loved Knight and hated it when posters ridiculed him so and never thought about who he was playing with. Try running a pick and roll play with Maxiell and Monroe. It is the kid's fault. get rid of him. Knight will never be a point guard. Good old Joe listened to the posters and gave him away along with Middleton and everyone was excited to get Brandon Jennings who no Bucks player wanted to play with. Good old Joe got us Jennings and Iverson. There was a lot of bitching about Billups on the forum before that trade when down. And fans can't wait to get rid of SVG. I am not sold on that idea. I think he has done his best job this season. Did not like some of the things he did in the past as the Pistons coach and GM. But for what it is worth, this year SVG should get some credit for the success of this team so far. Who knows what is going to happen with this team? All I know is that AD and RJ have been average and some other players have formed a good bond that translates to some good moments on the hardcourt. AD has had some good moments too but he is not pulling his weight as the highest paid player on the team and the guy who must provide better interior defense and start screening out his man at least in crunch time so the Pistons do not give up an easy basket that Cousins was able to get in this last game. That was big and very disappointing for me and I am sure AD's teammates.

AD worries me much more than Avery Bradley who is smart and always improving himself. But I have more respect for a player like Bradley and really pull for that kind of player to be successful and do not like watching head cases that dominate the NBA today. You seem to not have that type of emotional bond with players who I pull for on the Pistons. Harris is another guy that I really want to be successful. You need a little luck as well as hard work. We are all different obviously both still enjoy the game and want Piston success. We make no decisions, have no clue what goes on behind the scenes, and only vent our frustration or elation and that will be the way it will always be with fans. Each fan thinks differently. If you are correct and we should remove Bradley I hope you are right in the end. I don't think you are but that is only my opinion. We can agree to disagree at least ok?

My only idea on improving this team is to try to trade AD and RJ and hope to land one or two top tier players in the future. All the other stuff is meaningless as long as we have two players who are not top tier players taking the bulk of the payroll. As it is now, I am happy to watch a team that fights hard to win games. We have not had this type of effort by Piston players in a long time ( remember Charlie V). Bradley is a guy who gives a great effort playing defense, moving without the basketball and encouraging his teammates to play hard. We had no player like that last season. KCP was not that type of player last season. I know you like KCP but he was not a leader. Bradley is a leader type player or at least that has been his reputation in the past. If I were the coach, I would feel lucky to pencil in Avery Bradley knowing that I could at least trust that he will play the right way. I am sure SVG would tell you that he feels the same way. But then again everyone is calling for SVG's scalp. Maybe some posters want mine.

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Long Term

Post  WTF on Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:27 pm

How long is Long Term it seems we've been on that thing for quite a while now. Isn't it about time we think short term like today or at least find a balance between the right now and tomorrow?

In short term we should dump the bulk of the roster and start over then focus on a long term plan to develop and I mean truly develop a new core of young players from top to bottom.   

AD and Harris are good pieces but neither are pieces to build around so I would be willing to part with both if the exchange is fair not necessarily balanced or equal but fair.  

Considering the talent we do have currently one would think that are next move or 2 should be netting us immediate results and instance gratification.  What we do going forward as far as trades goes should put us at next level.
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Spence

Post  lemonpen on Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:04 pm

Those criticizing SVG for dumping Dinwiddie should remember the player of 3 seasons ago. Like many guys (Mr. Big Shot) it takes time, multiple opportunities and the right voice to eventually make things work. I'm happy for him.
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IDK

Post  lemonpen on Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:58 pm

Sparma wrote:If the Knicks sign Trey Burke and cut Sessions, as rumored, I'd go after Sessions, a competent back up PG.  He probably has a more appealing destination in mind though.  And I'd be surprised if Buycks, who's played well, doesn't make through the season, and maybe beyond, so maybe we're just looking for a temporary 3rd PG, until Reggie J returns.


If things come down to us relying on a 3rd guard we might be toast. I would prefer Stan stick to finding a long term starting PF/PG, or create a path to get one.
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Experiment

Post  lemonpen on Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:52 pm

There may be a way for Stan to have his cake and eat it too.

How about starting Moreland at PF. Move Harris to SF and Bullock to the bench. Moreland is quick enough to defend a stretch 4 when he doesn't have to be overly concerned with recovery to the lane for rebounding. On offense keep him moving back and forth along the baseline for screens and drop-offs from Dre-Smith-Harris-Bradley. Additionally, Moreland can run in transition; both ways. This also eliminates him from critical ball handling responsibilities. Time would tell how well Harris holds up defensively and how well Moreland handles switches to even smaller guys.


SVG could realize his wet dream of 1 in / 4 out with a bench of Boban surrounded by Tollie-Kennard-Bullock-Bicycle.

Sound feasible ?? tb tb tb thumbs down thumbs down thumbs down
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PG

Post  Sparma on Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:32 pm

If the Knicks sign Trey Burke and cut Sessions, as rumored, I'd go after Sessions, a competent back up PG. He probably has a more appealing destination in mind though. And I'd be surprised if Buycks, who's played well, doesn't make through the season, and maybe beyond, so maybe we're just looking for a temporary 3rd PG, until Reggie J returns.

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Sparma

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