Nothing To Win Here Sir

[WTF]

No matter what I say, you take it the wrong way!

I simply make the statement that there may be a goat in different games, and to you that's a slam on Stafford! I guess you assume that everybody thinks he loses every game, and each game is not different... Wow!

You claim I insult you when I specifically say I don't want to do that, and only responded when you claimed to know more than me and Lemonpen. So if you feel insulted, I apologize!

Have it your way, you want to win, I give it to you... Wise you WIN!

Man I didn't say you slam Stafford and I never claim to know more than anybody about anything. I said I know football better than I know any other sport and that Stafford was not the sole blame for losing last week. But you insisted I didn't know jack **** about what I was saying.

It's not even about winning a debate,I'm not trying to prove a point just say what I perceived. I mean one game in after an 11-5 season and all is doom and gloom. I think the team will go 10-6 their schedule is tough as nails this season but I'm not going to lose my mind after an 0-2 start after 2 road games.

You're right each week there's a different hero or goat and IMO it has yet been Stafford as either but twice in consecutive weeks the run game been weak, far too many penalties and mistakes (blown coverage, bad tackling, miss blocks, drop balls, wrong routes and penalties)

Oracle its you that turn these things into debates because the only right view more times than not is yours and everyone else is just spitting words in the wind. And even now you're still putting words in my mouth and thoughts in my head that I did not convey. The content of my whole last post was in reference to you saying I'm still stuck on last week. If it was mistakenly imply that I was referring to this week and your prior post that was not the intent of my post.

Really I have nothing I need to prove, there's nothing I'm trying to win, I think both you and lemon along with anyone else who said last week was a fault of Stafford has it wrong but if that what you all think its okay, I think it was way to early after an 11-5 season to whine about that lose as painful as it might have been watching them surrender 30 unanswered points. I certainly don't think Stafford was the cause. But you called be dumb for my thoughts and said it was a joke that I posted comments of players and coaches that said the same things.

Now you say the goat is different week to week but it was you that said the QB is the only player responsible for wins and losses no matter how much I said that there were all these other goats.

No Sir You Win, I never said I needed to win a debate, discussion. or contest of words.

[Sissy1946]

Detroit Basketball is almost among us, is Marcus any good, will Stanley start, how will they all look together? Alley Oop from Jackson to Andre for a Stuff, Pistons take a ten point lead, KCP with a 3, Jackson & Meeks with consecutive 3's, are we Rollin' or what. Wonder what Griffin is going to look like after seeing great film on him, will Granger have a shot at making the team? Let's get this training camp going, how many pre-season games will be televised? Hope all 8.
Illasova, Morris, Jackson, Johnson & Drummond are my starting five so far. Hope Jennings gets really healthy, can't wait to see Jennings & Jackson blowing teams away when they play together.

[Sissy1946]

Without singling anyone out I see a lot of blame first starting with Lom-Boza for his play  calling, Stafford for his lack of leadership, offensive line for not being able to protect Stafford so he can hand out the leadership that his position demands, Teryl Austin's non-compliance for not being able to adjust his defense on the spot, all of the players who said last week & today that we have to look at film, I say Bull Sh*t to that cast of  characters just making excuses, for Caldwell who is more secretive than Swartz ever thought of being, blame the ones who decided to have Golden Tate receiving kick offs, the only thing logical from this teams is that this is a bad team, to many faults to blame it on one person or thing.
Make a list but when you include one you have to include them all & realistically you don't have to look at any film for that, just watching it live makes you vomit. Add Mayhew & Lewin & vodka & you've got  the Disaster mix you need for a bad, bad team, fans were saying today they'll only win 5, 6 7, well how about 0, I don't see them winning anything with this group that helped them Lose their first two games.

[Oracle]

No matter what I say, you take it the wrong way!

I simply make the statement that there may be a goat in different games, and to you that's a slam on Stafford! I guess you assume that everybody thinks he loses every game, and each game is not different... Wow!

You claim I insult you when I specifically say I don't want to do that, and only responded when you claimed to know more than me and Lemonpen. So if you feel insulted, I apologize!

Have it your way, you want to win, I give it to you... Wise you WIN!

[WTF]

We simply see it differently and I'm not sure what you're thinking I'm rehashing because you certainly put words in my mouth and thoughts in my head that I clearly didn't express. If I'm rehashing anything it's that teams lose games more often than one single individual though it can happen "However" you and OBM and countless other fans have the right to your version or opinion of what your seeing.

I said everyone from coaches to players took the blame on the loss last week and went as far as to post their words not mine and you call it a joke and laughable. So I guess me along with Caldwell and the players are just stupid and it was all some elaborate cover up to protect Stafford from any blame. One insult after another did you toss my way on rather I knew what the hell I was talking about and it's funny because I saw the same thing the coaches and players saw. But my knowledge is weak because I don't see it the way you see it so I'm wrong and I guess so was everyone else not bashing and blaming Stafford last week.

I don't recall saying Stafford played flawlessly last week and neither did he play that way today, but basically what you saw today was what you saw last week. Dumb penalties, a **** offensive line, no run game and a defense that's like butter and you can blame it on the lose of Levy.

Everyone has a right to feel however they chooses when it come to Stafford, I just know that I want be singling him out week to week because he didn't some how save the day.

You know when you blame Stafford? You do it when he drops the ball on a critical game deciding possession, when he's been eating buttered popcorn and tosses a INT that actually cost us a game. It again would be nice if Stafford was Brady, Rodgers, Peyton but he's just Stafford and unfortunately Stafford team mates aren't the Broncos, Patriots or Packers either.

While many will be quick to jump on Stafford they won't mention that Mega dropped 2 passes, that Golden RAC been zero, that Stafford picks himself up after hit after hit. I don't blame him for not having touch a lot of QB's don't and rarely do they have touch and arm strength. Stafford is a slinger and always have been and we seen him put up numbers comparable and better than a lot of QB's in the league when he allow to sling. I put it Caldwell and I put on Lombardi because they don't play to his strength.

Go ahead toss out more insults, go ahead question rather I'm smart of the subject.

[Phil-Good]

I be A Lions fan after they win the Superbowl. Not until then.

Go Tiger, Pistons, Redwings, MSU, and Michigan.

F the Lions!!!

[Oracle]

Well, this week we got a consistent performance... everybody looked bad!

Offensive Line? Truly offensive, even for a Lions fan that used to being abused!

Defense? Not good, but not horrible! They kept the score down quite a bit, but the defense is also operating without their best player, the offense has no such excuse!

Stafford: This is interesting, and I'll quote from the Lions Board.

So great drive by the Lions. Decent drive by Stafford. Heres the issue. All Staffords completed passes...he throws only after guys are open. The top QBs throw to spots before guys are open. That's how they can force the ball to their best receivers even when they are double covered. This is what Brees could do that Stafford can't. It's why Stafford never makes it look easy. Why even good drives require such tough throws and catches. Still haven't seen any signs that Stafford can see an entire play and predict guys getting open before they're open. This will continue to be a problem. He hasnt improved his football IQ much in his career.

I just don't see the Lions being a consistent offense if they're going to continue to have to make such difficult plays consistently to be effective.

While I agree with that, I had additional thoughts,

IMO, it's a bit complex! Stafford gets and deserves the blame as the leader, but coaching plays into this too!

IMO, they aren't using the abilities that Stafford has effectively! He could be great in the right system, but this isn't it... at least right now!

If you're going to build the team around your franchise guy, you also need to structure it around him as well.

Weapons are useless if you can't get off a shot!

OBM later says,

The combination of this QB, this coordinator, and this offensive line has been awful through two weeks. I think you we're splitting hairs trying to figure out who's worse. Lions have expensive perimeter weapons and can't score touchdowns when it matters.

Saying that Stafford hasn't been good doesn't absolve the offensive line. Saying Lombardi isn't good doesn't absolve Stafford. Saying the offensive line isn't good doesn't give Stafford or Lombardi a free pass.

I think you have to have multiple under-achievers to waste these perimeter weapons.

What we have is a lot of problems that won't be easy to fix, but hopefully some home cooking will help!

And Wise, again, you simply don't get it! What happens from game to game is different, I though we explained that to you, but somehow, you want to rehash the same arguments and Goats from one game to the next!

This game wasn't all Stafford's fault, but he certainly didn't help much!

[WTF]

Matthew caught a temporary break Petersen didn't get in but he'll get another shot at it to start the 2nd. Hopefully Matthew gets some rest in between quarters to regather himself and get the stop.

[WTF]

Matthew gave up another touchdown WTF! This is hard to watch right now and I'm going to burn my jersey.

[WTF]

First he's holding on the Punt Return Geesh! Then he still can block worth a damn I swear I seen 5 guys out in front on that screen pass to Bell and not a sign of Matthew blocking as he throw the ball. WTF!!!!

But before then he was holding a pass rusher and got flagged for a 10 yard loss but right after that he allow Bell to be dropped for a 3 yard loss. I'm telling you if Matthew don't get his **** together quick the Lions will lose this game. Did you see him punt for 20 yards now the Vikings are starting at the 50 yard line.

[WTF]

Damn It! did you see what Matthew Stafford just did I swear he just as bad on offense as he is playing, Corner, linebacker, safety and defensive lineman not he goes on offense and forgets to block for himself and allow himself to not just take another vicious shot from a pass rusher he also allow one to break freak and knock down a pass. Wow this would never happen to Brady or Peyton because those guys really know how to block for themselves.

Hopefully Stafford doesn't jack up this punt

[WTF]

Man I don't know what everyone else was seeing, but I just saw Matthew Stafford allow the Viking to take the opening possession all the way down field for a touchdown. The never of him standing on the sideline making the defense play all by themselves. DAMN YOU MATTHEW!!!! DAMN YOU!!!!

Hopefully he'll start tackling better and covering those wide open receivers, maybe that's why they call them wide receivers because they be wide open because Matthew can't freaking cover them.

How wrong was me, Caldwell, and all those other Lions player to think that their mistakes along with penalties in key moments last week caused them to lose that game. I can see now how it was clearly Matthew's fault

[Fennis Dembo]

Bailiff: Hear ye! Hear ye! All rise for the honorable Judge Mongo the Merciless.  We have the case of the Vengeful and Wrathful  State of Arizona versus Morris and Morris.
Defending attorney: I object on the grounds that their mother claims they are good sons that would never harm a flea.
Judge: Objection overruled. Sit down and stop annoying me, you irritating parasite.

Prosecutor: Your Honor and esteemed members of the hanging jury.  These two brutish louts attacked five nuns and three old timers in wheelchairs.  They are  just plain incarnate evil. I predict they will be the main characters in Stephen King's next novel.
Defending attorney: These two saintly young men are products of their environment.  They were choir boys, altar boys, and Eagle Scouts.
Prosecutor: Products of their environment my aching balls!  They are your basic heathens and infidels and their mother was a certified voodoo priestess in a blood thirsty cult and her idea of a good time was dating Charles Manson.

Defending Attorney: Anywho, it was self defense.  The wheelchairs ran over the defendants big toes and the nuns started beating the defendants knuckles with flexible plastic rulers.  Their response was totally justified.

Prosecutor: These two hooligans think the world is their private punching bag.  Look at those two sweating like three hundred pound hookers in church.
Defending Attorney: For the record the defendants are not obese whores. But like the mythical hooker with the heart of gold their generosity knows no bounds.  They built tiny bungalows for midgets out of Legos,  not to mention their participation in "Mud Huts for Hobos".
Prosecutor: They probably mugged the comatose winos for their coins.  Ill gotten filthy lucre. I forgot to mention when they were boys, their family pets were flying monkeys.

Judge: Let's hear the closing arguments before the jury nods off into dream land like a dozen valium freaks.
Defending Attorney: Ladies and gentlemen of the jury let those of you without sin cast the first stone.  
Prosecutor: In your hearts you know they're at least as guilty as OJ in his second trial and more than likely the first.  

Defending Attorney:  Your Honor, I propose we settle this entire unfortunate little misunderstanding with a little game of "Rock, Paper, Scissors".
Judge: You're out of order!
Jury members: DETROIT BASKETBALL!  Wuff, wuff, wuff!
Defending Attorney:  This whole court is out of order!
Prosecutor: That's the truth.
Defending Attorney: You can't handle the truth!  Oh, this will not end well.  I can feel it my bunion and my sphincter just slammed shut.
Judge: (Banging his gavel) Cease and desist with the psychotic outbursts and hysteria or I'll clear this courtroom so quickly it will induce mass vomiting and I ain't cleaning it up. This is not a rave.  This ain't no disco.  This ain't no party.  This ain't no foolin' around.

Five minutes later.
Foreman of the jury:  Your Honor, we have a verdict.
Judge : I've had shoes on quickies that lasted longer than this  jury's deliberations. Let's get to it quickly.  I've got a hot date with Judge Judy tonight and I need to take my little blue pill that can.
Foreman of the jury:  The jury finds the defendants guilty of idiocy and stupidity and incredibly poor judgment.

Judge: I sentence the brothers in crime to an infinite number of years in the big house or until they  have memorized the entire bible, King James Version, word for word and written the Ten Commandments one million times.
Moans and cries of anguish emanate from the crowd.

Prosecutor:  This is the way the trial ends with a whimper, not a bang.
Judge: Speaking of banging that will be me and Judge Judy getting it on tonight.
Defending Attorney: A dark freakin' day in the history of jurisprudence.  Bailiff fetch me a Harvey Wallbanger on the rocks.
Prosecutor: Make that a double for me.

[WTF]

Lions: You use quotes from the people trying to make excuses for all the crap they did wrong, and don't or can't tell the truth about Stafford as some kind of proof? That's some funny stuff!

Do you post on any Lions forum where there are people that actually know something about football? I'm 100% sure you don't because you'd be laughed off so fast your head would spin.

Even Stafford supporters, and yes there are still quite a few, are logical enough to accept the facts and defend things based on different football grounds, not this complete denial.

You have an extreme disconnect between responsibility and direct action. Stafford is 100% responsible, while people can debate the percentage of his direct contribution!

Pistons: Oh the pain of SVG signing yet another dude that won't make the team. I guess it's better to have as many preseason practice dummies as possible.

The Morris stuff is news, news we need to know and understand as Lemonpen pointed out, because it has a direct effect on our team. There was actually something pointed out that I didn't know in that article. I didn't know that the only twin the dude 100% identified as attacking him was Marcus. You don't think that's important, or that it's hating.

IMO, and I'm not trying to offend you, but I seriously think you falsely assume intentions to us that you may feel, but isn't anywhere near what comes out of our minds.

Bottom Line: You again project something about yourself upon others, and it's the underlying thing about everything you do and say, but it's not true of others, just you.

You said you can't let me win on this one! That's what's going on in your mind, not mine! I don't want to win, I don't see any of this as winning anything! I want us to come to agreement, and if there is winning, that's what a win looks like to me.

And I'm cool with simply agreeing on the facts, even if after that opinions may differ.

What you call a loss, i.e. being wrong about something is something I seek and have sought throughout my life, but in a managed way! I throw out ideas at times to see if people can poke holes in them to refine the way I present or think about something... it's called LEARNING!

That's why I said that you need to stop projecting, we're not trying to do the same things that drive you!

Didn't make a dent did I

[Oracle]

Lions: You use quotes from the people trying to make excuses for all the crap they did wrong, and don't or can't tell the truth about Stafford as some kind of proof? That's some funny stuff!

Do you post on any Lions forum where there are people that actually know something about football? I'm 100% sure you don't because you'd be laughed off so fast your head would spin.

Even Stafford supporters, and yes there are still quite a few, are logical enough to accept the facts and defend things based on different football grounds, not this complete denial.

You have an extreme disconnect between responsibility and direct action. Stafford is 100% responsible, while people can debate the percentage of his direct contribution!

Pistons: Oh the pain of SVG signing yet another dude that won't make the team. I guess it's better to have as many preseason practice dummies as possible.

The Morris stuff is news, news we need to know and understand as Lemonpen pointed out, because it has a direct effect on our team. There was actually something pointed out that I didn't know in that article. I didn't know that the only twin the dude 100% identified as attacking him was Marcus. You don't think that's important, or that it's hating.

IMO, and I'm not trying to offend you, but I seriously think you falsely assume intentions to us that you may feel, but isn't anywhere near what comes out of our minds.

Bottom Line: You again project something about yourself upon others, and it's the underlying thing about everything you do and say, but it's not true of others, just you.

You said you can't let me win on this one! That's what's going on in your mind, not mine! I don't want to win, I don't see any of this as winning anything! I want us to come to agreement, and if there is winning, that's what a win looks like to me.

And I'm cool with simply agreeing on the facts, even if after that opinions may differ.

What you call a loss, i.e. being wrong about something is something I seek and have sought throughout my life, but in a managed way! I throw out ideas at times to see if people can poke holes in them to refine the way I present or think about something... it's called LEARNING!

That's why I said that you need to stop projecting, we're not trying to do the same things that drive you!

Didn't make a dent did I

[WTF]

Okay now that I'm done defending the likes of Josh, Matt and Marcus why are we making news about practice players Jordan Bachynsk? At least we know this is the last player SVG can add as he hit the 20 mark. "However" quietly I hope this Jordan kid can steal a spot I don't know much about him but he's 7"2 and not 6'6.

[WTF]

Over-kill is over-kill and that's what it is when you read about the Morris Twins. If it was simple as posting a pending time line then that's fine. This could have been accomplished without all the other comments IMO. Really how old does a story gets and how often do we have to hear it. It's one thing to talk about the time line but to project an opinion of an out-come just seems over the top.

Saying if A, B or C happens and giving a time frame was the intent then none of the other stuff was necessary....IMO

Now in reading the current article from the Free Press you can respect that and what was written because it simply summarized the events without all the hated projections that you obviously smelled in that other article. While it was nice to know of the potential issues and impact this might have on the season we all now know that it my not impact the season at all if the Judge sets a date in May. I don't think we'll be playing pass May 31st but who knows

[WTF]

ALLEN PARK -- It happened in the blink of an eye.

Detroit Lions quarterback Matthew Stafford took a shotgun snap and looked to throw a pass to star receiver Calvin Johnson running down the left sideline, but as Stafford's arm came forward he was blasted by San Diego Chargers outside linebacker Melvin Ingram.

Ingram had come free, unblocked from Stafford's right side. It was the second time in the contest a pass-rusher got through to the quarterback unmarked.

The hit caused the ball to float aimlessly into the air, where it was intercepted by rookie linebacker Kyle Emmanuel.

On an earlier blown protection, a third-and-four play just inside Chargers territory during the second quarter, Stafford and Swanson said there was simply a miscommunication.

"(Stafford) will make one call and we'll echo it, but one guy might have thought it was something else," Swanson said. "It's something that's an easy fix for us."

During the play, left tackle Riley Reiff pinched inside on the defensive tackle, allowing Emmanual to come free from the blind side and drop Stafford for a 13 yard loss.

Reiff told reporters after the game it was his mistake.  Both errors came on third-down plays in Chargers' territory.

Here are five things the Lions must focus on before Sunday’s game at the Vikings:

1. The offensive line allowed Stafford to be sacked just once but there was pressure too. “Those are issues that we’ve got to get straightened out. Obviously, anytime one sack is one too many, one hit on our quarterback is one too many and we had a few during the course of the ball game,’’ Caldwell said. “So, it’s a myriad of a couple different issues that we certainly know what the problems were, new what the problems were exactly when they happened and it’s our job to get them straightened out.” First-round pick Laken Tomlinson was making his debut, Cornelius Lucas was in at right tackle instead of LaAdrian Waddle. Also it was Travis Swanson’s second start at center. He had one bad snap that sailed over Stafford’s head, but the quarterback was able to grab it and pass to Ameer Abdullah who was in the endzone 24 yards later.

2. The Lions missed weakside linebacker DeAndre Levy, but Caldwell won’t use it as an excuse. Also Stephen Tulloch was playing his first game in 51 weeks. “All of our (linebackers) I think across the board played extremely hard. They give us great effort. They are certainly men that have great integrity and get after it, but nobody was perfect in that game,’’ Caldwell said. “Football’s not a game of perfect and it’s not required to be perfect in order to win. But, we just didn’t make enough plays across the board and I think you’ll see a difference here coming up in the future.” Caldwell clearly said not to blame certain missed plays on Tulloch because outsiders don’t know what his assignments were. Caldwell would not say if Levy will be back this week.

3. Sustaining drives goes both ways. The defense failed to get the Chargers’ offense off the field in the second half and when the Lions offense had the ball they couldn’t keep drives going. The Lions had great field position in the first half so the drives were short. “With our kick returns, with turnovers, etcetera, we had short fields. Our offense moved the ball quickly, scored quickly. So often times, it takes you a little bit more time, but we were rolling along pretty well early on there which kind of skewed things a little bit.’’ Caldwell said. So in the first half the Lions had just 23 offensive snaps in the first half and 24 in the second half. “Then in the second half of the game, it’s just the fact that we just didn’t continually execute well enough, you know, back-to-back-to-back plays to get ourselves in position to sustain some drives. You know, our third-down percentage was about 30 percent conversion percentage which was too low. We like to be somewhere around 50 percent or over. So that plays into it as well.”

4. Stay with the run game which got off to a good start but faltered when the Chargers made adjustments. They had 69 rushing yards total but only 17 in the second half. “From week to week, you may see some guys get the ball a little bit more than others, you know. One week, it may be Theo (Riddick’s) day, the next week, it may be Ameer’s, it may be Joique’s. You know, whomever it might be in terms touching the ball in the running game,’’ Caldwell said. Abdullah had the most carries with seven (50 yards while Joique Ball had six for 14 yards.

5. Be more effective in stopping the passing game. Chargers WR Keenan Allen finished with 15 catches for 166 yards and it looked like he was covered on several by Rashean Mathis. But Caldwell will not put all the blame on the veteran cornerback. “You know, one of the things you have to understand too is that it’s not singularly just one individual matched on one. There are coverages that we play that there are a lot of responsibilities involved in those coverages,’’ Caldwell said. “Inside coverages, guys coming from the opposite side. There’s pass rush, you know. It never boils down to one guy in that regard. Rashean knows the game, plays the game well and is a good communicator for us back there. He has been great for us and continues to be.”

I'm reading all these things and not one say's Stafford lose but it does point to all the things I've said about why the Lions loss.  

Coach Jim Caldwell reiterated Levy’s importance to the defense Monday in his weekly news conference, but didn’t offer excuses about why the defense had such an inconsistent performance, giving up 30 straight points in giving up an 18-point lead.

“He’s been a double-digit tackler the great majority of the time that he’s in any ballgame that he’s played for us and that being the case, I don’t want to at any point in time make you feel like we’re coming up with any kind of excuse,” Caldwell said. “Guys that are in the ball game are expected to do a job and do a job well and we’re all responsible for that, and we had plenty of manpower to get it done. We just didn’t get it done.”

Not one time did his coach single him out as much as he did his defense, in fact he put it all on the defense IMO, he talks about the o-line struggles to keep pressure off of Stafford, hell the 0-line admitted 2 or 3 time on 3rd down they missed assignments but everyone wants to point solely at Stafford or at least the most fans.

I did watch the game and I was seeing the same thing Caldwell was seeing on both sides of the ball. It would have been nice to come away with a win but I'm not drawing any conclusions on a single player or the team. Collectively they loss that game for a lot of reasons.

BTW I really do know football extremely well perhaps better than my Pals Lemon and Oracle though they likely won't admit it.

[WTF]

Are there any shades of gray in your world or is everything just black and white? You ALWAYS go to the extreme with everything, and nothing is ever that easy in the real world!

It's the shades of gray that I see that won't allow me to simply conclude Stafford lose the game. Somehow its you that have the black and white point of view because though you slightly acknowledge errors with the rest of the team you seem to think that Stafford should have risen above those things and still pulled out a victory.

1. Did Stafford lose the game all by himself? Absolutely not!
2. Was Stafford responsible for the loss? Hell yeah, he's the single player capable of winning the game, and he not only failed to do that he failed miserably!

Come on Oracle it's get no more black and white with your comment of Stafford being the single player capable of winning when there was a **** load of cause and effect determining his performance. Sure we can say if this or that had happen but we also can say the same thing on the flip side by saying if the defense did this oppose to that.

Yeah Stafford could have had better stats, and he likely will have a few big games this seasons. Yet it seems everyone including the defense had a ready made excuse it was Stafford fault. It's not that hard to look at the 11 in-completed to see that there we a couple of drops, there was a couple of mis ran routes, and that the Chargers secondary ain't a bunch of scrubs. But our defense gets paid just like the Chargers defense, the same with the coaches and so on.

Half the defense was on the sideline cramping up, "The offense keeps the ball the defense takes it away" how hard is that to rationalize Rivers having better numbers when our defense can't stop him. I'm not sitting here saying Stafford played great but he played okay giving the circumstances of poor play calling, a weak performance from the o-line, and being knocked on his ass. As for those two INT's you can put them squarely on the shoulders of the o-line.

But I'm going to let you be right on this one, sure Stafford blew it, it was his fault on the INT's, his fault on the lack of a run game, his fault on the play calling, he gave up 30 because he made the defense tired so that's his fault to. Sure it would have been nice if he came up big it also would have been nice if the defense, run game and coaches came up big. Tom Brady could have been back there Sunday and we still lose a game we should have one.

No matter how much gray I show you, you still see it as Stafford's fault because of your black and white view that he either win or he lose but sadly when he win he still lose because something will be found wrong to say about him.

15 fourth quarter comebacks and 17 game winning drive isn't there with the likes of some the great HOF'ers or soon to be HOF'ers but it doesn't say Stafford is a choke artist either. Just saying we seen this guy come up big in games just as many times we seen him falter. I'm just not into blaming a QB every time a loss occurs with out seeing the whole picture

[Oracle]

There you go again!

Are there any shades of gray in your world or is everything just black and white? You ALWAYS go to the extreme with everything, and nothing is ever that easy in the real world!

There are few people in football that don't blame Stafford! What you don't get is this,

1. Did Stafford lose the game all by himself? Absolutely not!
   
2. Was Stafford responsible for the loss? Hell yeah, he's the single player capable of winning the game, and he not only failed to do that he failed miserably!
   

If he plays well on the road next week, I'll praise him like crazy, but another choke like last week and it's time to start looking for another franchise QB!

Here's hoping you get a more balanced view of these issues, you can't even tell the difference between people putting out rational facts and those acting like some do that hate on players.

The Stafford issue and the Morris article shows me that you struggle understanding where people are coming from.

Interesting day, first Stafford, then Morris and continued Josh confusion.

There's something you're missing in these conversations, nobody is saying what you seem to hear, and sports facts appear to have no effect on your thinking!

[WTF]

Scape-goating at it's best.

[WTF]

I agree but you still can't rest the loss on Stafford's shoulders when the run game with south, the play calling was questionable and the offensive line got man-handled.

Well, let's see about that! Who is the LEADER, not only of the offense, but the whole team? It's Stafford of course, but let's only look at the offense. Here are some facts that anyone watching the game wouldn't need to see, but here they are.

Running: Our top two rushers had a total of 13 carries for the whole game, and you call that a run game gone south? If you know anything about football, that's a run game that isn't even being tried!

Abdullah - 7 carries
Bell - 6 carries

So what was SD doing rushing wise, while we weren't trying? They had a total of 26 carries! And they didn't have many more yards than us, so we didn't get beat by their running game!

Passing: So if we aren't running, surely we're throwing the ball all over the field, and that's supposed to be Stafford's strong suit! Well, not so much.

Stafford - 19 completions off of 30 attempts (246 yards)

Rivers - 35 completions off of 42 attempts (404 yards)

Obviously somebody got whipped, and the reason is that while completions matter, Stafford could hit 90%, but if they aren't the right completions at the right time, they're WORTHLESS, and that's what you don't get about Stafford!

Stafford has a history of almost NEVER playing like an elite QB when it matters. When the lights get hot, he wilts, and that's my issue with him.

FYI: I don't hate on players, I hate on their performance, and Stafford has a consistent history of this kind of performance. Also I'm commenting on a specific game, Stafford is the one that can change this and turn it around, and I pray that he does.

This game could be a wake up call, or just part of the same old stuff, we won't know for awhile, but the schedule doesn't look good.

I'm a believer in wanting a tough schedule, because if you're for real, you're either going to win, or look good while losing. Sunday, they looked bad while losing, and that's unforgivable!

Bottom Line: Bring back the old days when we had a QB controversy! Why the Lions NEVER play anybody other than Stafford when he can't produce means that the backup sucks, or they're stupid!

And Wise, if you know more about football than any other sport... you've got me really scared bro

Okay you win Stafford totally loss the game Sunday all by himself boy does he sucks. Yeah he wilted in the heat and the pressure and stunk it up big time. Everyone was on point from the coaoches, to the backs, to the reicievers and the defense until Stafford screwed it up all by himself. DAMN YOU STAFFORD.

I was watching the game, I don't know how I could miss Stafford losing this game

[Oracle]

I agree but you still can't rest the loss on Stafford's shoulders when the run game with south, the play calling was questionable and the offensive line got man-handled.

Well, let's see about that! Who is the LEADER, not only of the offense, but the whole team? It's Stafford of course, but let's only look at the offense. Here are some facts that anyone watching the game wouldn't need to see, but here they are.

Running: Our top two rushers had a total of 13 carries for the whole game, and you call that a run game gone south? If you know anything about football, that's a run game that isn't even being tried!

Abdullah - 7 carries
Bell - 6 carries

So what was SD doing rushing wise, while we weren't trying? They had a total of 26 carries! And they didn't have many more yards than us, so we didn't get beat by their running game!

Passing: So if we aren't running, surely we're throwing the ball all over the field, and that's supposed to be Stafford's strong suit! Well, not so much.

Stafford - 19 completions off of 30 attempts (246 yards)

Rivers - 35 completions off of 42 attempts (404 yards)

Obviously somebody got whipped, and the reason is that while completions matter, Stafford could hit 90%, but if they aren't the right completions at the right time, they're WORTHLESS, and that's what you don't get about Stafford!

Stafford has a history of almost NEVER playing like an elite QB when it matters. When the lights get hot, he wilts, and that's my issue with him.

FYI: I don't hate on players, I hate on their performance, and Stafford has a consistent history of this kind of performance. Also I'm commenting on a specific game, Stafford is the one that can change this and turn it around, and I pray that he does.

This game could be a wake up call, or just part of the same old stuff, we won't know for awhile, but the schedule doesn't look good.

I'm a believer in wanting a tough schedule, because if you're for real, you're either going to win, or look good while losing. Sunday, they looked bad while losing, and that's unforgivable!

Bottom Line: Bring back the old days when we had a QB controversy! Why the Lions NEVER play anybody other than Stafford when he can't produce means that the backup sucks, or they're stupid!

And Wise, if you know more about football than any other sport... you've got me really scared bro

[lemonpen]

It was 105 deg on the field.  The 3rd quarter went something like this.

D surrenders TD off of a 12 play drive lasting 5 minutes & 39 seconds
Our offense ran,   4 plays giving the D 1 minute & 26 seconds of rest B4 turning the ball over @ SD 41 yd line.
D gets ball back @ DET 35 yd line
Our offense ran,   3 plays giving the D 1 minuet & 22 seconds of rest B4 turning the ball over @ DET 27 yard line.
D surrenders TD
Our offense ran,   4 plays giving the D 3 minuets & 6 seconds of rest B4 punting

Without hydration & rest our defense is freakin exhausted by now.

I agree but you still can't rest the loss on Stafford's shoulders when the run game with south, the play calling was questionable and the offensive line got man-handled.  That first INT came off a blitz of an unblocked pass rusher on his blind side by the time Stafford cocked his arm that rusher was already into to his body I'm not even sure if it was a pass or just getting the hell knocked out him that put the ball in the air.  That INT wasn't a result of a bad throw nothing you can blame Stafford for.   You can blame him from the lack of production from the run game that allowed the Chargers defense to blitz at will.   To added injury to insult I don't think Stafford was ever right after that hit he was scraped up like a bike falling of his bike. That **** probably still burning.

19-30 is better than 60 percent of his passes, the 2 INT I totally put on the offensive line.  My point Manning was 19 of 40 and barely won some crazy **** like that, so **** happens but Lions fans are so quick to miss everything else about a loss and simply focus on Stafford.  If you're run game isn't a threat and the offensive line playing as tough as feathers, how and the hell the passing game work.  

The Defense wasn't tired on that first surrendering of a TD coming out of half time and it was a blown assignment at the end of half time that started the run of 30 unanswered.    

The critical possession was after our D forced a SD fumble.  It was there that a competent QB would understand the need for a sustained drive.  1 possession could have rested the D, restored a significant lead, and eaten the kind of clock that prevents major comebacks.  Yeah I fully blame the $64 million dollar QB.  All athletes talk about is overcoming adversity.  He has the ability (sic), authority and responsibility to change things on the fly.    Oh yeah, it's too bad only 3 of those 19 occurred on third down. Mr. anti clutch.

Won't be long before the Lions begin considering drafting a QB.

[lemonpen]

This article discusses the harsh realities - Even without a trade, Phoenix Suns could lose Markieff Morris to suspension for an extended time

Sound like someone just yakking making their on assumptions about this.  Why is it always the Phoenix media yakking about the Morris Twins? Why does any and all the news about these 2 comes straight out of Phoenix.   I know I question SVG methods but I don't think SVG would have made the trade if he thought this would blow up in his face.  Would our organization be that stupid to not do their homework on this thing beyond SVG I think Gores would have nip the whole trade scenario in the bud if they were thinking Jail time or suspension.Where is our local media on this matter what investigating have they done on this.

The thing that really stood out in this yak piece is that the only actual witnesses are the victims could it simply be that yes the Twins people whipped some ass but the Twins never touched them and that this is a money grab or an attempt at one.  If guilt was so evident and clear cut they would already be locked out but this clowns thinks that because the process isn't being rushed it spells doom for the twins.  

Okay the NBA isn't talking about this, ESPN isn't talking about it, the Pistons isn't talking about it, the Twins aren't talking about it, local media isn't talking about it, the only one that is talking is this rag out of Phoenix who can't even spell the twins name right.  

I disagree. It read like we were being given the straight up facts regarding scheduling conflicts with preseason, and possible legal outcomes, not much more. Matter of fact I found it helpful to at least understand the impact any legal proceedings may have on OUR preparation for 2015-16.

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