LOL!

[WTF]

They played well because it was the Thunder! They're getting motivation based on opponent, NOT from inside of themselves, and that's a problem.

Pride should be driving them at this point.

If this doesn't say it's the players I don't know what does. This is what I've been talking about when I say it's the players and not the coaching. It's the intrinsic reward that should be driving these players. Coaches can change the habits of players but they can't change what should have already been there before he ever encounter them (pride in winning)

When I look at our players I don't see disappointment on there faces, not kicking of chairs, knocking over the Gatorade, punching walls and cursing at each other. Not one player on this team looks at the other players and say follow my lead and this is what we had with players on our championship team everyone in line and doing the right things and being accountable.

Taking away PT is like giving kids timeouts and then cookies later. BTW Josh didn't take a bad shot he just missed it but I think Brandon should have went for the shoot himself oppose to kicking it back to Josh. Just know that had Josh made it you be sucking his drawers for at least a day

[Oracle]

Not bad.  I agree with Kelser's final assessment that if they keep playing like they did today, including playing with effort, they'll start see results.  [Not real soon though, with the upcoming schedule!]

The national highlight: Westbrook's vicious dunk.

For me, the highlight was Ibaka pulling a Mutombo with his finger wagging (not in my house!), only to have Drummond tomahawk dunk over him later in the game.

Obviously, Josh isn't the guy you want taking the potential winning shot from distance.

Really, LOL!

They played well because it was the Thunder! They're getting motivation based on opponent, NOT from inside of themselves, and that's a problem.

Pride should be driving them at this point.

Having said that, I am ultimately a homer, and I want to believe that we will step it up, and IMO, the best time to do that is when the going gets tough! Don't beat weak teams, rise up and beat a better team and build on that.

Contrary to popular belief, which shouted some of us down saying that the east was going to be better(what a laugh), the season is far from over if they can get on a mini roll!

BTW, that Dunk by Drummond was a thing of beauty! I FIRMLY believe that he's going to put it all together one season and be damn near unstoppable!

[Sparma]

Not bad. I agree with Kelser's final assessment that if they keep playing like they did today, including playing with effort, they'll start see results. [Not real soon though, with the upcoming schedule!]

The national highlight: Westbrook's vicious dunk.

For me, the highlight was Ibaka pulling a Mutombo with his finger wagging (not in my house!), only to have Drummond tomahawk dunk over him later in the game.

Obviously, Josh isn't the guy you want taking the potential winning shot from distance.

[Oracle]

They handled their business and whipped Tampa Bay's ass!

They need to win 2 of their last 3 games to make the playoffs IMO.  I would be happy and proud of a 10-6 season but I'm fearing it might not be good enough

Stafford played great today and I think the team is also peaking so winning the next 2 games is extremely possible and I wouldn't be shocked if they won out.  But I'm a happy Lions Fan at the moment!

[Oracle]

Josh Smith!!!

[WTF]

They handled their business and whipped Tampa Bay's ass!

They need to win 2 of their last 3 games to make the playoffs IMO. I would be happy and proud of a 10-6 season but I'm fearing it might not be good enough

Stafford played great today and I think the team is also peaking so winning the next 2 games is extremely possible and I wouldn't be shocked if they won out. But I'm a happy Lions Fan at the moment!

[WTF]

"Yeah I agree Management 101 if you're running a fortune 500 company or coaching H.S. sports. But you do know that there is not set standard of managing and motivating people because everyone is different (There's no Zekes on this team). More importantly that sh!t doesn't work in professional sports except maybe football because their not much guaranteed money involved. What does punishing a player with no PT does to a player guaranteed millions whether he plays or not." - Wise

Said the guy that roots for a team that's never tried to use this technique since the last time it worked!

BTW, Larry Brown did this with the Clippers back when they absolutely stunk, and made them a solid team.

You're using the logic of a man that won't try something that works because he believes it won't work, thereby guaranteeing it won't work while getting the same results... and it makes sense to you?

You can make ANY player better! First you find what they desire most and take it away from them(PT, starting). At this level, it's 70-80% mental, and you should see that from our team!

It's mental to:
1. Keep missing shots at the rim!
2. To fail to value possessions at critical times
3. to shoot as poorly as we do
4. To not close out on opponents
5. To lose focus on defense
6. To not have ball movement on offense

Talent isn't the issue with this team, it's coaching, and if you think it's only about money, you're probably 80% right, but you have to play to get that money, and the coach controls that. If you don't play, you don't get visibility and you don't get better, which means you don't get the money, it's as simple as that!

This is a very small community that they live in and coaches are tight as are players. Since you believe it's all about the money, then maybe you can explain why players put so much desire into being a starter! Why do you think they care?

We're dealing with a completely different breed of players, these are the same players Larry Brown dealt with, that's why Brown coaching at SMU and Sloan retired and why Pat and the Zen Man sit in front office positions. These don't really care as much as you think about PT and starting because they eventually they'll get paid if they have the talent alone.

Man Charlie spent 5 years on the bench and made 35 million dollars and don't have to play another game the rest of his life. You might get lucky enough to motivates a rookie before he figures out the bullshit. Look at JJ he make 4.5 million and I believe he just wants to play and gotten tons o DNP-CD with 5 different coaches where was his motivation to get off the bench and get PT.

This use to be a game and players played for the love of the game and to be the best. First they turn it into a business and now its entertainment these games don't play for the love of the game anymore. We lowered the standard of play, soften the game and gifted to many players as being all stars een before they're all stars. They're getting paid based on potential and not actual performance on the playing field.

What other coach beyond the one remaining coach Pop use the tactic you suggested. At some point real soon when players like Duncan and Kobe are no more Pop will likely retire. It's already rumored he might when Duncan is done. The sh!t has hit the fan and coaches know this.

You need to recognize what and who these players have become within the last 10-15 years. They're twitting cross dressing retard catering to casual fans who would root for a turd if it was trending on the Internet

[deusXango]

It's mental to:
1. Keep missing shots at the rim!
2. To fail to value possessions at critical times
3. to shoot as poorly as we do
4. To not close out on opponents
5. To lose focus on defense
6. To not have ball movement on offense

Talent isn't the issue with this team, it's coaching, and if you think it's only about money, you're probably 80% right, but you have to play to get that money, and the coach controls that. If you don't play, you don't get visibility and you don't get better, which means you don't get the money, it's as simple as that!

Oracle, this is the very reason I've been railing against SVG hiding Datome on the bench (playing behind Singler, Butler, and now Martin of all people!) How many of the six points of mental aspects you've listed that Datome has fallen short on during the sh!t minutes he's been given? It seems to me, every effort has been made to make/sell Singler as an invaluable player, while at the same time, the invisibility of Datome subliminally suggests, he ain't sh!t.....I'm not sold on that simply because I've been denied the eye test!

Oracle, you and Wise can argue the merits of coaching vs. players will to succeed all day, but SVG ain't shown me anything yet! We know what J.J. can bring to the game and we've seen glimpses of what Dinwiddie can do, if given half a chance, but there they sit, next to Datome; DNP-CD!

[Oracle]

They handled their business and whipped Tampa Bay's ass!

[Oracle]

"Yeah I agree Management 101 if you're running a fortune 500 company or coaching H.S. sports. But you do know that there is not set standard of managing and motivating people because everyone is different (There's no Zekes on this team). More importantly that sh!t doesn't work in professional sports except maybe football because their not much guaranteed money involved. What does punishing a player with no PT does to a player guaranteed millions whether he plays or not." - Wise

Said the guy that roots for a team that's never tried to use this technique since the last time it worked!

BTW, Larry Brown did this with the Clippers back when they absolutely stunk, and made them a solid team.

You're using the logic of a man that won't try something that works because he believes it won't work, thereby guaranteeing it won't work while getting the same results... and it makes sense to you?

You can make ANY player better! First you find what they desire most and take it away from them(PT, starting). At this level, it's 70-80% mental, and you should see that from our team!

It's mental to:
1. Keep missing shots at the rim!
2. To fail to value possessions at critical times
3. to shoot as poorly as we do
4. To not close out on opponents
5. To lose focus on defense
6. To not have ball movement on offense

Talent isn't the issue with this team, it's coaching, and if you think it's only about money, you're probably 80% right, but you have to play to get that money, and the coach controls that. If you don't play, you don't get visibility and you don't get better, which means you don't get the money, it's as simple as that!

This is a very small community that they live in and coaches are tight as are players. Since you believe it's all about the money, then maybe you can explain why players put so much desire into being a starter! Why do you think they care?

[Sebastian]

The lubricant of the NBA. Comes in handy at not having the "L's" become so abrasive. Damn!    

[Sebastian]

The lubricant of the NBA. Comes in handy at not having the "L's" be so abrasive. Damn!    

[WTF]

I keep saying this, and it boggles my mind that people that sat through Larry Browns years fail to see the obvious.

Wise says it's the players, and while that's right, it's so far off from how things work that you wonder where that thinking comes from.

FACT: Players must meet standards, and in the NBA, the MUST have a basic set of skills. If a player is to ultimately succeed, it is totally up to the player.

FACT: The only control the coach has over the player, and this is the key, is that the coach can either play or not play a player.

This is the mechanism through which the great coaches control behavior!

A coach that fails to impose his will through the strategic use of PT, not only fails himself, he fails the player and the franchise.

The coaches I've seen here that did that were only Larry Brown and Lil Larry, with differing results! LB would sit any player that didn't perform to his standards... ANY Player!

It's management 101, and it's done in a very strategic manner, often attacking the highest profile player(Cheeks tried it, but fans & management didn't like it), and demanding more, even unreasonable standards. This worked for Pop with Duncan, but failed here with Josh.

Larry Brown attacked the Pistons floor & locker room leader in Chauncey, but Chauncey responded with better play and was the example. However, that team was already pretty mentally strong, just needing that final mental edge to become a champion!

But that's what coaches provide, the mental edge to get over the hump, once the talent is honed into a fighting machine!

SVG may get there, but right now he's giving away PT like Christmas candy!

There are no hard requirements to play right, just go out there and do whatever you want and there are no consequences! As Don mentioned about the end of last year, we waited on injuries to play guys that really would play harder and smarter.

What is SVG waiting on? If the guys you're playing produce at this level, what does that say about your standards. SVG complains that the players he plays don't play hard, have many mental lapses on defense and offense, don't have good ball movement, then why is he playing them?

Oracle while I believe that coaching has a role in winning and losing and to a point the motivating of players it is still ultimately on the players to respond and how they respond speak more about a player than it does a coach's ability to coach. Pop, LB are exceptions, but in a different way so were Chuck, Riley and Jackson.

Yeah I agree Management 101 if you're running a fortune 500 company or coaching H.S. sports. But you do know that there is not set standard of managing and motivating people because everyone is different (There's no Zekes on this team). More importantly that sh!t doesn't work in professional sports except maybe football because their not much guaranteed money involved. What does punishing a player with no PT does to a player guaranteed millions whether he plays or not.

This brings me to my point about it being about the players. Many of these players have received the extrinsic rewards of playing the game (money) with the promise of more just for meeting sub-standards set by the league overall. If a scrub can get 4 million a half of scrub surely can get 8 million so where does that intrinsic reward comes into play?

You mentioned some great coaches and some exceptional players, all the winning coaches have had exception players (MJ, Zeke, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Lebron, Shaq, and so on) There are maybe a handful of players currently in the league that has what these guys have when you talk about fortitude and will to win. Sadly we don't have those kind of players on our team, the kind that say's I don't want to lose and then have the will to go out there and win games. This guys don't talk about winning titles, taking the division, being the best player, but all the exceptional players do.

Our team underachieve not because the coach can't motivated them, its because they don't give a **** and they'll always have fans making excuses for them and often coaches get scapegoated. easy to get rid of a coach making 3 million than it is a player making 12 million. If we were talking about poor planning and screwed up rotation than SVG is guilty as charge.

[WTF]

You can get away with being dumb if you're a freak athlete, but have you looked at Josh lately?

Freak is right, but he's totally lost the athlete part!

He's SLOW and rarely has any bursts of athletic movement! Josh is done!

His biggest asset is his passing, but that's it! Joe lays another egg with a time bomb in it!

Gosh Darn more Josh bashing

Admittedly Josh looks like he's moving with turds in his drawers but I think that's largely from the weight gain (not fat but muscle) that has grossly affected his movement.

DX, before you so easily give up on Josh keep in mind that injuries were a part of all those players you mentioned (Coleman, Webber, Iverson, McDyess) Josh has never played at the weight he's playing and he needs to get back to the size he was last season. I'm not sure what made Josh to want to add weight at this stage of his career when he played PF effectively enough at the size he was last season, not sure if it was something SVG put in his ear and he listened. The weight gain is not good I don't think I've seen him dunk once this season.

Oracle, The funny thing is even with Josh's obvious issue (I just can't call it a decline because it can be corrected if he drops the added weight) he's likely still the 2nd most athletic player on the team. This doesn't speak well for everyone else does it?

[Oracle]

I keep saying this, and it boggles my mind that people that sat through Larry Browns years fail to see the obvious.

Wise says it's the players, and while that's right, it's so far off from how things work that you wonder where that thinking comes from.

FACT: Players must meet standards, and in the NBA, the MUST have a basic set of skills. If a player is to ultimately succeed, it is totally up to the player.

FACT: The only control the coach has over the player, and this is the key, is that the coach can either play or not play a player.

This is the mechanism through which the great coaches control behavior!

A coach that fails to impose his will through the strategic use of PT, not only fails himself, he fails the player and the franchise.

The coaches I've seen here that did that were only Larry Brown and Lil Larry, with differing results! LB would sit any player that didn't perform to his standards... ANY Player!

It's management 101, and it's done in a very strategic manner, often attacking the highest profile player(Cheeks tried it, but fans & management didn't like it), and demanding more, even unreasonable standards. This worked for Pop with Duncan, but failed here with Josh.

Larry Brown attacked the Pistons floor & locker room leader in Chauncey, but Chauncey responded with better play and was the example. However, that team was already pretty mentally strong, just needing that final mental edge to become a champion!

But that's what coaches provide, the mental edge to get over the hump, once the talent is honed into a fighting machine!

SVG may get there, but right now he's giving away PT like Christmas candy!

There are no hard requirements to play right, just go out there and do whatever you want and there are no consequences! As Don mentioned about the end of last year, we waited on injuries to play guys that really would play harder and smarter.

What is SVG waiting on? If the guys you're playing produce at this level, what does that say about your standards. SVG complains that the players he plays don't play hard, have many mental lapses on defense and offense, don't have good ball movement, then why is he playing them?

[Sebastian]

Let me preface this statement with this; I've been a big Josh Smith fan for a long time, but you're right Oracle, he's done. The explosiveness, the diversity of game, the speed for his size, is all but gone. It's a damn shame I had to see some of my favorite players (Derrick Coleman, Chris Webber, Allen Iverson, Antonio McDyess, and now Josh Smith) in a Pistons uniform when their careers were over for all practical purposes.

It's occurred to me that the team SVG has assembled and the rotation he's running would lose more than they'd win if they played a season against the top 25 college teams; we just lost to a team heavily reliant on D-League players with no veteran leadership. All the buzzwords we use to justify holding onto the mediocre players that can't compete in todays NBA just ain't working for me anymore; veteran leadership, glue guy, spark off the bench, take your pick of nonsense terms that mean everything but "winner."

Why is Drummond and KCP regressing? That's a question that's been asked before, but I don't remember getting an answer that made any sense. Will SVG tell us in honest terms why he keeps running Jennings and Augustin out there, for the excessive minutes they take up, and the lack of production he's getting?

If he's going to keep paying them and they aren't injured, when's Dinwiddie, Datome, and Jerebko going to get some games under their belt, with substantial PT? It can't be for the fear of losing or professional effort. WTF is going through Gores head now? He's always talking about making the playoffs, but does he know what it takes to get there? Does he have the slightest idea? Damn the playoffs, can he give away those empty seats at the Palace come January when it's cold as hell outside? Talk about biting the bullet, "big pockets," it's time to start thinking about major buyouts.

IMO Van Gundy has lost the team and never found his way as a President/GM....these outstanding game efforts by players are more auditions for other teams than competitive efforts to win for the Pistons and their coach. We see these games being lost, for lack of sound fundamentals being employed, but what's the locker room like? I'm not talking about one or two players being cancerous, but an oppressive distrust and dislike for the coach in the air, that as professionals the team won't openly talk about. Are we ready for Thomas (GM), Laimbeer (coach), and Mahorn & Rasheed (assistants) yet?

DX has noted: "... it's time to start thinking about major buyouts."

Seriously Pistons Pals, OUR Pistons could be 3-28 and in the swallows of a 22 game losing streak by Lebron's birthday on December 31st.

Here is the schedule through the eve of Lebron James' Birthday:

Sun, Dec 7 vs Oklahoma City
Tue, Dec 9 vs Portland
Fri, Dec 12 @ Phoenix
Sat, Dec 13 @ Sacramento
Mon, Dec 15 @ Los Angeles Clippers
Wed, Dec 17 vs Dallas
Fri, Dec 19 vs Toronto
Sun, Dec 21 @ Brooklyn
Fri, Dec 26 vs Indiana
Sun, Dec 27 @ Cleveland
Tue, Dec 30 @ Orlando

If this does happen and no trades are made and all WE are looking forward to is the return or debut of F@ckin' Jodie Meeks, then Tom Gores may want to cut Stan a check for the remainder of his $7 million for the 2014-2015 fiscal year and tell him, "don't let the doorknob hit you ...";in fact, Gores should be in deep negotiations with Isiah Thomas and his agent and attorney, right now!

This sh!t will get a lot worst.

[Sebastian]

Jennings' play really irked me yesterday.  He's got a hand problem (that happens), has been shooting horribly, but he still came out gunning, missing badly, finishing 2-10 as I remember.  Then he conducted one of the worse run final plays of regulation I've ever seen, dribbling pointlessly, not coming close to finding a teammate, then throwing up an air ball.  Give us a chance!

Still, I agree with Kelser that Thompson's getting off and hitting the tying three in regulation was incredible, or at least a real low probability play.  The Pistons are both bad and unlucky now.

Now we find out that Drummond took a selfie while driving 96 mph (posted at FanSided).  Not exactly reassuring behavior by the future of the franchise.

Sparma wrote: The Pistons are both bad and unlucky now. Ain't that the truth. This roster of dudes misses more point blank shots than any other team in the League. I'm sure WE all can find that statistic, maybe I'll look it up somewhere. Damn!

I felt that WE could loose this game early on. The Sixers never thought that they were inferior to OUR Pistons, scoring 30 points in the first quarter. Every player on the Sixers felt that they were better than their opponent and as I watched the game I was convinced, likewise.

- MCW was way better than B. Jennings and Augustin. Hell and better than KCP for that manner, as all my Pistons Pals know that WE could have drafted MCW instead of KCP. WE could still have a backcourt of MCW, Stuckey, and B. Knight. (This one is on Joe, but back to the here, and awful now.)
- Nerlens Noel was not necessarily better than Josh, but he played with confidence, finished some plays, and block some shots. He had a presence.
- Henry Sims didn't play like he was of afraid of anyone on OUR front line; not even of Moose, who he played with as an underclassman at Georgetown.
- Luke Richard Mbah a Moute played a solid defense and complimentary offensive game: 14 pts, 11 rbs; and proved to be more than a companion to the injured, 3rd Pick of the 2014 NBA Draft.
- Hollis Thompson, who? Hollis Thompson raised up with a fall-away corner Three that sent the game to overtime, like he was Ray Allen or some damn body! There were times throughout the game, when Hollis Thompson played like he belong in this League (13 pts)
- WE all saw Robert Covington (25 pts, 6 rbs, 9-14 from the floor; 3-5 from the three point line) and just shitted own OURselves. Singler was also 3-5 from three and played a surprisingly, good game (21 points, 6 rbs, 2 ast, 2 stl). I bet he will not duplicate that performance, this evening versus Kevin Durant and the OKC Thunder.
- Guys like: K.J. McDanials, JaKarr Sampson, Brandon Davies, and even Harvey Grant's son, Jarmi Grant had an emphatic dunk; played with energy and confidence.

[Sparma]

Jennings' play really irked me yesterday.  He's got a hand problem (that happens), has been shooting horribly, but he still came out gunning, missing badly, finishing 2-10 as I remember.  Then he conducted one of the worse run final plays of regulation I've ever seen, dribbling pointlessly, not coming close to finding a teammate, then throwing up an air ball.  Give us a chance!

Still, I agree with Kelser that Thompson's getting off and hitting the tying three in regulation was incredible, or at least a real low probability play.  The Pistons are both bad and unlucky now.

Now we find out that Drummond took a selfie while driving 96 mph (posted at FanSided).  Not exactly reassuring behavior by the future of the franchise.

[cool breeze]

Let me preface this statement with this; I've been a big Josh Smith fan for a long time, but you're right Oracle, he's done. The explosiveness, the diversity of game, the speed for his size, is all but gone. It's a damn shame I had to see some of my favorite players (Derrick Coleman, Chris Webber, Allen Iverson, Antonio McDyess, and now Josh Smith) in a Pistons uniform when their careers were over for all practical purposes.

It's occurred to me that the team SVG has assembled and the rotation he's running would lose more than they'd win if they played a season against the top 25 college teams; we just lost to a team heavily reliant on D-League players with no veteran leadership. All the buzzwords we use to justify holding onto the mediocre players that can't compete in todays NBA just ain't working for me anymore; veteran leadership, glue guy, spark off the bench, take your pick of nonsense terms that mean everything but "winner."

Why is Drummond and KCP regressing? That's a question that's been asked before, but I don't remember getting an answer that made any sense. Will SVG tell us in honest terms why he keeps running Jennings and Augustin out there, for the excessive minutes they take up, and the lack of production he's getting?

If he's going to keep paying them and they aren't injured, when's Dinwiddie, Datome, and Jerebko going to get some games under their belt, with substantial PT? It can't be for the fear of losing or professional effort. WTF is going through Gores head now? He's always talking about making the playoffs, but does he know what it takes to get there? Does he have the slightest idea? Damn the playoffs, can he give away those empty seats at the Palace come January when it's cold as hell outside? Talk about biting the bullet, "big pockets," it's time to start thinking about major buyouts.

IMO Van Gundy has lost the team and never found his way as a President/GM....these outstanding game efforts by players are more auditions for other teams than competitive efforts to win for the Pistons and their coach. We see these games being lost, for lack of sound fundamentals being employed, but what's the locker room like? I'm not talking about one or two players being cancerous, but an oppressive distrust and dislike for the coach in the air, that as professionals the team won't openly talk about. Are we ready for Thomas (GM), Laimbeer (coach), and Mahorn & Rasheed (assistants) yet?

dX I think the reason why KCP and Drummond appear to be regressing is the fact that they are playing too many minutes. Drummond needs more grooming on the basics which he never bothered to learn in Junior high and high school. He needs to get intensive coaching and earn his minutes. If he misses assignments on defense, then the damn coach needs to remove him and tell him what he did wrong. I don't see where any of the players are learning anything from this coaching staff. It could be that most of them are not coachable. KCP leads the team for average minutes played per game. What has he done to get that kind of playing time? The young players need to play in a system and earn their playing time. KCP is shooting horribly and he is just jacking up low percentage shots. I think he has been watching too much of Jennings and Augustin. And although he does expend a lot of energy on defense, he is making too many mistakes with the rotations as well. But it is difficult to play defense in the backcourt when your teammates are Jennings and Augustin. The only young guy who has to earn his minutes and has earned them in my opinion is Spencer Dinwiddie but according to Stan Van Gundy, Spencer is not ready. Compared to what Stan??? If he ins't ready than how can this coach account for the play of Jennings and Augustin? Those two are the worst NBA players I have seen in a long time. I hated the way Bynum played but he is preferable to Jennings and Augustin. They both belong in Europe where they would be a good fit.

I may be way off here but when I look at Stan Van Gundy on the sidelines he appears to act more like a fan than a coach. All of the other coaches who have been fired managed to make these low quality players look ok at times. But remember the last week of last season Piston fans. Three players, Smith, Jennings and Bynum didn't play during that period of time. Siva was running the club with KCP, Singler, Monroe, Jerebco and Drummond. Siva played good defense and really got his teammates into the half court offense well. I was so surprised that Van Gundy didn't keep him and instead paid a lot of money for Augustin. What I see is the prime time players who earn the most money and I include Drummond and KCP in this group with Smith, Jennings and Augustin leading the way. These players don't seem to recognize game situations. Say if a player is being double teamed and there is no opposing defender near the low block, I don't see players sprinting to that area and waving their arms to alert their teammate to pass them the ball. Basketball IQ means a lot in the NBA where there is less structure. Nobody is thinking about floor spacing as well. Smith and company have looked OK in the first half of games at times. But what is going on in their minds when the 2nd half begins? I also see a lot of players watching on defense instead of doing the basic things to help their teammates. It is puzzling to watch them especially the big men.

I hope this group of players don't improve and keep on losing so we have a better chance of getting a great player in the draft. It will be almost impossible to trade Smith, Jennings or Augustin. Monroe is known throughout the league as a horrible defender but he might be a good fit with a team full of good defenders. If a team could hide Monroe in their defense, they might be thinking about signing him. But he would not be a good fit with a up tempo style team. And the league is moving that way. It is as if we watch a really bad team that plays like some other bad teams played 10 years ago. Will Van Gundy have the guts to sit Jennings, Augustin and Smith at any time during this season? I doubt it. But how would you feel right now if you were one of the team owners? Losing this number one pick for the Pistons was huge. The trade involving Ben Gordon was done to save money. Tom Gores was the guy who approved that trade. SO Gores played a huge role in shaping what has happened. And remember the biggest mistake, the trade of Brandon Knight who is going to be an NBA top level star along with another promising player in Middleton for Brandon Jennings. At the time that trade was made that the Detroit Piston franchise would pay a heavy price down the line. Everyone in the league knew that Jennings was a horrible defender and is really a 2 guard who never bothered to learn the fine points of team work. It is time to move in a different direction and away from Josh Smith being the center of everything on this team. His minutes should be around 22 per game if that much. Jennings should get 15 minutes and Drummond and KCP should not play more than 18 minutes a game unless they are playing really well. Bring in some D League guys as starters. Lose big and win in the draft.

[deusXango]

Let me preface this statement with this; I've been a big Josh Smith fan for a long time, but you're right Oracle, he's done. The explosiveness, the diversity of game, the speed for his size, is all but gone. It's a damn shame I had to see some of my favorite players (Derrick Coleman, Chris Webber, Allen Iverson, Antonio McDyess, and now Josh Smith) in a Pistons uniform when their careers were over for all practical purposes.

It's occurred to me that the team SVG has assembled and the rotation he's running would lose more than they'd win if they played a season against the top 25 college teams; we just lost to a team heavily reliant on D-League players with no veteran leadership. All the buzzwords we use to justify holding onto the mediocre players that can't compete in todays NBA just ain't working for me anymore; veteran leadership, glue guy, spark off the bench, take your pick of nonsense terms that mean everything but "winner."

Why is Drummond and KCP regressing? That's a question that's been asked before, but I don't remember getting an answer that made any sense. Will SVG tell us in honest terms why he keeps running Jennings and Augustin out there, for the excessive minutes they take up, and the lack of production he's getting?

If he's going to keep paying them and they aren't injured, when's Dinwiddie, Datome, and Jerebko going to get some games under their belt, with substantial PT? It can't be for the fear of losing or professional effort. WTF is going through Gores head now? He's always talking about making the playoffs, but does he know what it takes to get there? Does he have the slightest idea? Damn the playoffs, can he give away those empty seats at the Palace come January when it's cold as hell outside? Talk about biting the bullet, "big pockets," it's time to start thinking about major buyouts.

IMO Van Gundy has lost the team and never found his way as a President/GM....these outstanding game efforts by players are more auditions for other teams than competitive efforts to win for the Pistons and their coach. We see these games being lost, for lack of sound fundamentals being employed, but what's the locker room like? I'm not talking about one or two players being cancerous, but an oppressive distrust and dislike for the coach in the air, that as professionals the team won't openly talk about. Are we ready for Thomas (GM), Laimbeer (coach), and Mahorn & Rasheed (assistants) yet?

[Sparma]

Incredibly bad finishing did us in, combined with poor shooting generally.  That's the worse offensive showing by two NBA teams I ever saw in OT, although Philly ended up putting up some points.  Lots of points off of TOs, especially in the first half, didn't help.

With .6 seconds left in the first quarter, our C telegraphed a block about 28 feet from the basket, allowing their PG to hoist up a no chance shot, resulting in 3 FTs and 2 points.  In an OT loss, a blunder like that really hurts.

To think that MCW and Covington could be playing for us.  Several times, MCW used his long arms to create opportunities in tight spots (eg when driving down the baseline looking tied up, early).  I also liked how he overtly directly traffic.

There were positives for the once again defeated team:

1) Great game by Singler, even if not perfect.  I liked a play that didn't pay off, when he hustled back for an emphatic goal tend.  

2) Outstanding game by Josh, although not perfect.  I like how SVG's using him as a secondary pivot on offense.  It allows AD and/or Moose to operate where they want inside on O when they're on the floor with him; he looks for teammates right away, as opposed to our PGs who tend to dribble long enough to get the opponent into optimal defensive positions; he's moved away from area most productive of his misbegotten long heaves; he's got nice chemistry going with Singler; his passing encourages movement by teammates, of which we saw more tonight than in almost any other game.  Good tactical move by SVG.

3) Cartier Martin had some nice moments, including one basket consisting of a beautiful set of moves in which he seemed to take on the whole team.

Disheartening loss, especially as we head into a tougher part of the schedule.  This game reinforces my sense that by the end of the year, we'll bemoan how often they're winning, blowing their fantastic draft position.

[Oracle]

Golden State almost hired Van Gundy instead of Steve Kerr, what a disaster that would have been!

Kerr is doing an amazing job with Golden State, and it's showing most on the defensive end!

[Oracle]

You can get away with being dumb if you're a freak athlete, but have you looked at Josh lately?

Freak is right, but he's totally lost the athlete part!

He's SLOW and rarely has any bursts of athletic movement! Josh is done!

His biggest asset is his passing, but that's it! Joe lays another egg with a time bomb in it!

[Oracle]

We've had a LOT of coaches that fail to see talent on their own team, and constantly play lesser talent for whatever reason! ALL of the coaches after Larry Brown suffered from this with the exclusion of Flip!

So why is it 1000 times worse now?

Well, the dumb ass coach is also the GM, so his lack of ability to recognize talent is likely to eff us up for years(Covington had the game high, as well as CLUTCH shots to boot)!

[deusXango]

You guys can kiss my... stats
Singler had a great, great game tonight and I applaud him for it.....do it again tomorrow and I'm really impressed.    

Ok, it's one game, but nice so far from Singler!
I asked for 20+ points and Don's man delivered....highly efficient too.

I just hope we win, but one thing is for sure!
What did you tell me about hope?  

Singler in no Covington! How Bower let that guy escape from us is a mystery, Covington is VERY impressive!!!
I'm actually glad he's in Philly instead of being buried on the bench here behind Singler, Butler, and Martin....makes me wonder, how much are we missing in not seeing Datome play?

All credit due to the often maligned tonight...Smith and Singler.

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