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Thoughts that maybe shouldn't be shared

Post  deusXango on Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:15 pm

Well, well, well. SVG is making me feel like Nostradamus, or some damn body who's a great seer, and I'm not! As f@cked up as Van Gundy's been, the fans are getting exactly what we deserve for the most part, but I'll address that fully at a later post. For some time now I've raged against bias and favoritism running the show (it's non-competitive for the most part) and SVG sat on a beach in Florida and observed that Detroit fans don't want to do anything more than b!tch & complain about their favorite player (who's really mediocre) not getting their due. He also saw that ownership was "brain dead," hench, President/GM/Coach all rolled into one!

Phil1980boy wrote:
No more crying about this team from Van Gundy.

You the GM now. If you don't like what you have CHANGE THIS S.H.I.T...

You the F.U.C.K.I.N.G. GM now.

No more B.I.T.C.H.I.N.G.

Fix it. That's why you're here.

No more going into the press saying this team is this or that. It's your mess to fix. You have no road blocks in-front of your. Go get it done.

The last GM has to fix somebody else mess just like you have to do. That GM got 2 NBA Finals appearances, and 6 Eastern Conference appearances out of it. Now you go do better then the last man. No more B.I.T.C.H.I.N.G.


SVG came for the money (he had no respect for Detroit before he came and that's a matter of record!) and that's it....look carefully at the FA signings and the trade he's made; the most practical acquisition he's made is the drafting of Spencer Dinwiddie and he won't play him. He gave Monroe undue favor in the press, but failed to sign, sign & trade, or trade him outright, now look where we're at with that. No one in their right mind want Monroe for top dollar and we shouldn't either. What the f@ck is Bower doing, other than stealing money like SVG?

Here's a brainbuster for you guys; how much respect does SVG have among the leagues GM's and is he well liked? If sleazy, greasy, Pat Riley threw his ass under the bus, thus blackballing him, and the whole D-Howard thing in Orlando didn't poison the coaching waters enough, how much does anyone think he's been endeared among GM's? Maybe he's been trying like crazy to make a meaningful trade(s), but no one wants to deal with him. Any thoughts from the mind-reading section?

Josh Smith was a hell of a FA signing, but that Jennings fiasco was f@cked up; it's unfortunate that they came to Detroit in the same off-season and are looked upon as a package deal. If Smith came alone, he would've been a completely different player playing with Knight and under coaching that cared and had a plan. If Jennings came alone, he would've ranked as another of Joe's dumbass moves, right up there with Gordon, A.I., and Stuckey! They all looked good, in spells, had their cheering sections, but something vital was missing and during their time as Pistons the team spiraled down (that's a matter of recorded fact, not a doorway to discussion!). Josh's first Pistons coach was more his enemy than his coach and that relationship torpedoed his career here. Jennings acted like Cheeks was more his lover than his coach, "my baby's gone and I've got the blues," with apologies to Lightnin' Hopkins. SVG was a damn fool for talking Monroe up last summer, instead of Smith and Drummond, and not trading Jennings before the season started.

What was the point in starting Singler and giving him less minutes than he was getting coming off the bench? Don, please stop talking about the damn touches Singler gets and SVG having told him to stand in the corner behind the 3 line; magic isn't going to happen when Singler touches the ball and I notice that no other SF stations themselves in that deadass corner, plus you don't know that for a fact. My question is, what's it going to take for Singler to be a consistent 15 point scorer? Can/will he do that for us? That's one of the things I've been pulling for since he's been here.

Bottom line is, fan acceptance/expectation is too low, GM SVG is in over his head, and coach Van Gundy's problems go beyond mere rust; he's not a Pistons man (with apologies to Bo Schembechler). The cornerstone to this bullsh!t is Tom Gores; he doesn't know how to build a winning administrative team anymore than Karen Davidson did, but to her credit, she acknowledged it!
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SVG is overwhelmed ...

Post  Sebastian on Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:07 pm

WISEFAN wrote:Absolutely Correct!

SVG has no business moaning about what's wrong with this team when he's the one that can fix the problem. If he wants to cry to himself then he needs to do it privately and not in the press.  

Damn Correct!

A 9 man rotation is short but a 8 man rotation is freaking insane.  SVG limit should be a 10 man rotation and the only thing short about it is the guards he's rotating in and out of the games.  I'm going to say this and it might not be agreed with but this is what made Stuckey worth keeping and also made him under appreciate. Stuckey was a true combo guard and we don't have a single one on this team. IMO Stuckey in the pass was always the best guard on the team and right now I would take him over every guard we have right now and this includes KCP.  Much in the why Josh is consistent with his stats so was Stuckey you don't have to guess what you're going to get from them game in and game out.  Some time stability is as important as chemistry, we spend too much time wondering if everyone else is going to show up but you knew what to expect Josh and Rodney.

Same Sh!t!

Again as I stressed last season KCP is a scorer and can't be confined to an offensive scheme, he is not a shooter but SVG keeps using him like he is and its not going to work.  He will never be consistent if he isn't given a green light to do his thing when he feels like it and jacking up 3's shouldn't be included as part of his thing.  This was his game in college and he was never confined by an offense now he's being asked to fit in with other players and take a lesser role.  You can do that with some players but not a player who freelanced and led his team his entire college career.  He should have the same green light and freedom that Stuckey had.

Blow It Up! cherry

I think it's time SVG is still dealing with Joe's mess.  Don't get me wrong there are a lot of pieces to work with but obvious SVG Buffoonery! as one Tayshaun Prince would have stated is screwing it up.  Right now the coach and president are full of themselves and some sh!t to boot.

Yo, Wise, the roster that you proposed: Stuckey, the 8th-grader, Batum, Josh, and Dre Drumbs; backed-up with B. Jennings, KCP, Singler, Jerebko, and Anthony would had been a wonderful experiment to watch for 82-games.

I still say that GM Stan has not done any favors for Head Coach SVG.
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Still Joe's Leftovers

Post  WTF on Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:37 am

Sebastian wrote:
Phil1980boy wrote:No more crying about this team from Van Gundy.

You the GM now. If you don't like what you have CHANGE THIS S.H.I.T...

You the F.U.C.K.I.N.G. GM now.

No more B.I.T.C.H.I.N.G.

Fix it. That's why you're here.

No more going into the press saying this team is this or that. It's your mess to fix. You have no road blocks in-front of your. Go get it done.

The last GM has to fix somebody else mess just like you have to do. That GM got 2 NBA Finals appearances, and 6 Eastern Conference appearances out of it. Now you go do better then the last man. No more B.I.T.C.H.I.N.G.

Philip, you are 100% correct. This is GM Stan's sh!t to correct and Head Coach SVG to coach.

While I don't think SVG should be moaning in the press, this is still Joe's sh!t he's dealing with. True SVG could have correct some of it with a couple of moves mainly trading Monroe but like Joe he thought he could put band-aids on this mess by signing Meeks, Augustin, Butler and Martin lol WTF! He wanted to add role players to a team already filled with role players when he needed to swing for the fence. I know I mention every day all day but he should have bitten on the Batum trade before he made any free agent signings and kept Stuckey.

Just for a second imagine this starting lineup Stuckey PG, Stephenson SG, Batum F, Josh PF and Drummond C and then bring those role player off the bench Singler, Jennings, KCP, JJ and Anthony.
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WTF

Post  WTF on Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:26 am

Absolutely Correct!

SVG has no business moaning about what's wrong with this team when he's the one that can fix the problem. If he wants to cry to himself then he needs to do it privately and not in the press.

Damn Correct!

A 9 man rotation is short but a 8 man rotation is freaking insane. SVG limit should be a 10 man rotation and the only thing short about it is the guards he's rotating in and out of the games. I'm going to say this and it might not be agreed with but this is what made Stuckey worth keeping and also made him under appreciate. Stuckey was a true combo guard and we don't have a single one on this team. IMO Stuckey in the pass was always the best guard on the team and right now I would take him over every guard we have right now and this includes KCP. Much in the why Josh is consistent with his stats so was Stuckey you don't have to guess what you're going to get from them game in and game out. Some time stability is as important as chemistry, we spend too much time wondering if everyone else is going to show up but you knew what to expect Josh and Rodney.

Same Sh!t!

Again as I stressed last season KCP is a scorer and can't be confined to an offensive scheme, he is not a shooter but SVG keeps using him like he is and its not going to work. He will never be consistent if he isn't given a green light to do his thing when he feels like it and jacking up 3's shouldn't be included as part of his thing. This was his game in college and he was never confined by an offense now he's being asked to fit in with other players and take a lesser role. You can do that with some players but not a player who freelanced and led his team his entire college career. He should have the same green light and freedom that Stuckey had.

Blow It Up! cherry

I think it's time SVG is still dealing with Joe's mess. Don't get me wrong there are a lot of pieces to work with but obvious SVG Buffoonery! as one Tayshaun Prince would have stated is screwing it up. Right now the coach and president are full of themselves and some sh!t to boot.
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Word!!!

Post  Sebastian on Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:16 am

Phil1980boy wrote:No more crying about this team from Van Gundy.

You the GM now. If you don't like what you have CHANGE THIS S.H.I.T...

You the F.U.C.K.I.N.G. GM now.

No more B.I.T.C.H.I.N.G.

Fix it. That's why you're here.

No more going into the press saying this team is this or that. It's your mess to fix. You have no road blocks in-front of your. Go get it done.

The last GM has to fix somebody else mess just like you have to do. That GM got 2 NBA Finals appearances, and 6 Eastern Conference appearances out of it. Now you go do better then the last man. No more B.I.T.C.H.I.N.G.

Philip, you are 100% correct. This is GM Stan's sh!t to correct and Head Coach SVG to coach.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:00 am

Oracle wrote:He says that the players are not playing like they did in preseason!

No, they aren't, the question is WHY?

The answer is that SVG isn't coaching like he did in the preseason!

In the preseason SVG played as many as 14 players one game, and regularly player 10 or 11!

IMO, he shortened the lineup to 8/9 way too soon and burned some of the players out, and if you've ever been in that situation, it's hard to recover between demanding practices and even more demanding games.

Playing more players results in fresher players in the 4th quarter, which we saw in preseason!

Cheeks played 9/10 players and we ran a LOT, but guys stayed fresh!

I talked about this from day one with SVG's change, and one of three things are likely to happen.
1. They'll eventually get conditioned to SVG's short lineup, or
2. They won't recover and the season is lost, or
3. They'll recover, but by that time, will have lost all faith in themselves and SVG

SVG is fully to blame for all of this, from his bungling the Isiah Thomas situation, to not trading Josh, to not trading Monroe and getting stuck with the QO, to the Meeks over paying, to the Gray signing, to the arrogance of ignoring the altitude in Denver, to faulty lineups and substitutions, to over playing his players and burning them out with ridiculous practices.

In short, SVG has been an unmitigated disaster!

Oracle I guess that Stan Van Gundy has been away from the game for so long that he forgot that good NBA players only use the pre season to get in shape. They try to avoid injury more than anything. It seems that Stan based his team strategy on what happened in the pre season. Wow how in hell can Tom Gores get rid of this man??? I would rather have Van Gundy in the front office than watching him coach a team. Maybe Tom could make him an advisor like Joe Dumars. They could put their heads together and figure it all out. The answer would be RUN THE OFFENSE THROUGH JOSH SMITH WITH JENNINGS MAKING SURE HE GETS THE FIRST PASS.

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Stan Van Gundy is "messed up" as well as his players

Post  cool breeze on Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:49 am

The basic mistake made by Stan Van Gundy is his insistence on running the offense through Josh Smith. Did any coach who coached the Atlanta Hawks ever run the offense through Josh Smith? Did Smith play a lot or get a lot of touches in the 4th quarter of most games when he played for the Hawks? It doesn't matter if Smith starts at power forward or small forward, this inept coaching staff is determined to feature Josh Smith. In almost every game so far we see a repeat performance by the coach and Smith. Last night Smith played a really good first half. He distributed the ball well to his teammates and made some good decisions when he decided to shoot the ball. Then towards the end of the first half something changed. It became more difficult for Smith to get things going. Starting the 2nd half, everything ran through Smith for the entire 3rd quarter. From the start of that quarter, it seemed like I was watching the same thing I saw in all of the previous games this year. It is a given that most NBA teams especially teams that are playing on the road for several games in a short time period use the first half as a warm up. They don't play hard on defense at all. Even Kobe was scoreless on the first half. And it was the first half where Josh Smith was on a tear. He and Brandon Jennings were running hard and passing the ball to each other a lot. The other players mostly had to stand around other than Drummond who got his usual easy shots under the basket. But the player who Stan Van Gundy said would start so he could see if he is a good player, Kyle Singler, stood again on the baseline at the 3 point line on the opposite side of the floor where all the action was taking place. He did receive one pass from Smith in the first half on a cut to the basket and hit a 3 on another pass. But whoever you plug into the small forward spot if it isn't Smith, will not be part of the offense and will find it very difficult to average 10 points a game. Singler went out with about 3 minutes left in the first quarter and did not return until the start of the 2nd half. The second half was a repeat of the first for Kyle. I think he touched the ball one time. By the way, SIngler's assigned man on defense didn't score when he was in the game.

At the start of the 2nd half, the Lakers cut off passing lanes and were more active on defense especially with when Smith had the ball. I stopped counting Smith's turnovers in the 3rd quarter but it had to be over 10 turnovers. By the way, notice how the Pistons keep their stats. Smith has turned the ball over consistently in the 2nd half of games all year but somehow the official stats don't reflect his many mistakes when he has the ball in his hands. And it is not all Smith's fault. It is also Jennings fault because he puts pressure on Smith by passing him the ball and not moving the ball from side to side to get other players involved. Smith could cut to the basket and get easy shot attempts but by design, coach Stan Van Gundy is determined to run everything including the kitchen sink through Smith. Remember when Prince played for the Pistons? So many fans wanted him traded to get a real small forward. That has been the cry since he left the team. But what I am getting at is the fact that the offense was often run through Prince when he played for the Pistons after the break up of the core of stud Piston players. Why couldn't the coach at least try to run the offense through Singler. Singler is known to be a really good passer. He is big enough to see the entire court. Why is it that this season, Kyle is relegated to standing in the corner like a bad boy in elementary school. Plug in any other candidate like Datome or Jerebco if he had a crack at playing small forward. You would see the same thing. They would be out of the offense begging to touch the ball during their limited playing time.

What to do? Fire the coach would be a good start. If Van Gundy does stay an entire season, then he needs to play Smith a lot in the first half and if he continues to run the offense through him, then sit him for the entire 2nd half of games. The combination of Smith, Drummond, KCP and Jennings is pure poison. This group has the worst chemistry that I have ever seen in my life. It doesn't matter who the other player is in this group because they will be a non factor. Place Kobe Bryant in with that group and play him like Stan Van Gundy plays his current starting small forward. Would Kobe stand for only receiving one pass per quarter?

While others have ragged on coaches in previous seasons, I have been one who always said the players control wins and loses in the NBA. Maybe that is still true but this coaching staff stands out as perhaps the worst coaching staff that i have seen in many years especially when thinking of the Pistons. Few players know their role for the team. Only SVG's chosen few players know that they will get consistent minutes. The coaching staff fails to make adjustments during the games. If a player is turning the ball over 5 straight times, it is time to do something. This coach didn't do anything last night. If a point guard dribbles down the court and just jacks up a jump shot and misses and does it several times in a quarter, something should register in the coach's brain. So far with Jennings and Augustin, that hasn't happened. They keep doing it and the coach refuses to make a change. He doesn't want to make a change because he doesn't want to get Spencer Dinwiddie into the mix. Mabye Van Gundy believes if he does that it will lead to more "messed up play". Of all the seasons that I have watched the Detroit Pistons this is the worst since the season when Dick Vitale coached and he didn't make it to January.

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RE: SVG is full of it..

Post  Phil1980boy on Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:11 am

No more crying about this team from Van Gundy.

You the GM now. If you don't like what you have CHANGE THIS S.H.I.T...

You the F.U.C.K.I.N.G. GM now.

No more B.I.T.C.H.I.N.G.

Fix it. That's why you're here.

No more going into the press saying this team is this or that. It's your mess to fix. You have no road blocks in-front of your. Go get it done.

The last GM has to fix somebody else mess just like you have to do. That GM got 2 NBA Finals appearances, and 6 Eastern Conference appearances out of it. Now you go do better then the last man. No more B.I.T.C.H.I.N.G.
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SVG is full of it...

Post  Oracle on Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:30 am

He says that the players are not playing like they did in preseason!

No, they aren't, the question is WHY?

The answer is that SVG isn't coaching like he did in the preseason!

In the preseason SVG played as many as 14 players one game, and regularly player 10 or 11!

IMO, he shortened the lineup to 8/9 way too soon and burned some of the players out, and if you've ever been in that situation, it's hard to recover between demanding practices and even more demanding games.

Playing more players results in fresher players in the 4th quarter, which we saw in preseason!

Cheeks played 9/10 players and we ran a LOT, but guys stayed fresh!

I talked about this from day one with SVG's change, and one of three things are likely to happen.
1. They'll eventually get conditioned to SVG's short lineup, or
2. They won't recover and the season is lost, or
3. They'll recover, but by that time, will have lost all faith in themselves and SVG

SVG is fully to blame for all of this, from his bungling the Isiah Thomas situation, to not trading Josh, to not trading Monroe and getting stuck with the QO, to the Meeks over paying, to the Gray signing, to the arrogance of ignoring the altitude in Denver, to faulty lineups and substitutions, to over playing his players and burning them out with ridiculous practices.

In short, SVG has been an unmitigated disaster!
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WOW. LA Game

Post  Phil1980boy on Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:19 am

WOW. What A piss, poor, effort by the Detroit Pistons.

Not much can be said. Same story. The 3rd quarter was A story of A team sleep walking through the motions.

I saw the Championship team sleep walk through games and come out on the winning side. But this losing era we're having is irritation.

Already, I'm looking towards the NBA draft but these guys will start to win games when they should be losing them, I guarantee it.

It was fun to see Kobe and all the Laker fans at the Palace. My mom loves the Lakers and now that Kobe career is winding down, it's good to see A NBA Legend in the palace. It's been A long time since we had one in the building.
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Lakers 106, Pistons 96

Post  Sebastian on Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:22 am

The third quarter was a damn disgrace. The Lakers played a late night, overtime affair on Sunday in LA, while WE played a matinee at the Palace on Sunday afternoon, a blowout lost to the Warriors.

The Lakers, a ragtag bunch themselves, then comes to the Palace on Tuesday night and runs away from OUR guys in the third. Rusty ass, Head Coach SVG didn't seem to be able to do anything to slow the Lakers down. OUR guys played like their feet were in quicksand. They were slow to react to rebounds; late on defensive assignments; and changed ends like a bunch of old ladies.

Two questions:

1- How in the hell does Moose think that the Lakers will be the organization that will offer him a nice salary, when Jordan Hill made him (Moose) look average?

2- Why didn't Spencer Dinwiddie see the floor, when things were getting out of hand during the 3rd or any other point during the game?

It is getting worst and worst with every game played on the schedule.
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Sparma & Wise

Post  Oracle on Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:54 pm

@Sparma, I too thought Datome looked like at a minimum he needs a lot more PT to iron out the kinks! He is interesting in that he will get to the rim, although he didn't finish, and he plays tough, not passive!

From what you reported, the LA broadcaster had our number down to a tee... we're bad, and everybody knows it!

SVG needs to hear JJ and stop playing guys that refuse to move the ball!

@Wise, that was a pretty fair and balanced post! Josh is actually like Singler, he needs to be surrounded with better players and a PG that will look him off when he's not where he's supposed to be. If the PG did that, he would have his ass properly positioned at all times!
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LA

Post  Sparma on Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:42 pm

Kobe with a weird triple double, with his 10 TOs. Still, he contributed to the win with 13 assists.

I listened to the LA announcers, following Don and Seb's (?) example of listening in on the visitors. They had some zingers. One I hadn't heard: "They do call the team the second hockey team in Detroit -- they play 3 periods and that's it." [Drumroll]. And then the usual: "awful now"; on Josh: "I love it when he's shooting jump shots"; "just horrible shooting the ball inside"; worst shooting team they've seen; lack of effort; biggest lead of the year; on Monroe: "move so predictable"

They said some nice things too, including notable commentary on Meeks. They described Jennings as "improved", and praised a shot by Datome ("what a shot there"). Panning to Meeks solicited the comments about how good he was on both ends of the floor last year and how his effort is so good and persistent that it really does make sense to speak of 110% effort. So those are heartening comments on Meeks coming from a couple of guys who didn't mind telling it like it is on the Pistons.

A few observations of my own: I was pleased to overhear JJ saying on the court: "come on, let's move the ball." He threw up some clankers though.

Datome showed me he's worthy of some minutes. On one play, he showed some feistiness going up against the much strong Boozer. He seemed off, but not by much. I'd be curious to see if playing time could iron out some of the kinks.

A unit that included him, Monroe, JJ, and Augustin did a nice job of narrowing the gap. There were some glimmers, but another bad defeat.
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The Josh Smith Fan Club

Post  WTF on Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:40 pm

Most of you are getting what you deserve and you know who you are! STOP OVER VALUING PLAYERS WHO ARE NOT CONSISTENT!!!!


Monroe should have been traded for chemistry sake but many were screaming value!, value!, value!. All the while I kept saying that chemistry was a form of value that you couldn't apply a dollar amount to, but many kept saying money was all that matter or worrying that Monroe would go somewhere else and blow up. You all kept screaming we needed to sign him first to a big deal so we can get value! Now at the end of the day unless he agrees to be trade we're getting nothing now.

Drummond, could start if we had bona-fide shooters around him but we don't and thus his ass needs to come off the bench until that happen. But if we weren't playing a player who should have been traded last season (Monroe) both Josh and Andre likely would be playing better together. I said over the summer that either starting big lineup would work. Josh Nicholas Andre or Josh Ryan Andre, in fact trade Monroe for any PF with range or bona-fide SF with range and it's all good.

Josh, hate him as you all may but he's the only consistent player on the team even if he's prone to a bone-headed play or 2 he's not the reason this team is losing. This team is inconsistent in every area on the court still Josh who swing from SF to PF remains consistent in his stats night in night out. When was the last time Monroe put up decent numbers something like 5 games ago. I know you all love hating on him and scapegoating the guy but he is far from being the issue.

Stan, it not the Stan the coach, its Stan the President that's the problem because he picked up where Joe left off in his decision making. Stan back himself as coach into a corner just the way Joe backed Cheeks, Frank and others into the same corner. Ego and arrogance kept him from dealing Monroe over the summer, he was so caught up in getting a fair return he forgot about chemistry. I guess he was to proud to tank because he should have traded Josh, Monroe and Jennings for whatever and moved on. I'm sure Monroe could have gained us a 1st round pick, so could have Josh and maybe Jennings. Deadline coming up so it's not too late. Still possible a sign and trade could be done with Monroe come summer but maybe he's ready to escape now.

All the players on the team are tradable even Josh and Jennings

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Prize?

Post  Oracle on Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:34 pm

merc wrote:Whoever picked the worst record for the year gets the prize.

LOL Merc, the prize will be a front row seat to 10 piston games, in one of SVG's belly rolls!

A mild Factoid: Last year we averaged over 101 points per game!!!

Don't tell me this team can't score!!!
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Re: FORUM

Post  merc on Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:30 pm

Whoever picked the worst record for the year gets the prize.
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SVG is LOST!

Post  Oracle on Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:10 pm

So am I! I can't believe how badly he's made this club!

Curry made the playoffs, Frank was bad, but he had a system that at least worked for the most part, Cheeks actually had a team that looked like they could beat anybody with a few tweaks!

SVG's team looks like a Sixers team that got lucky and won 3 games!

We're pretty much the worst team in the association!

Jennings is really a problem, because no matter how well he plays, it's his mentality that blows up as soon as we have a lead. He's just not mentally a good PG, he has to go!

If there is a better stat stuffing team killer than Josh Smith, I don't want to meet him!!!

These two players just have to go before anything positive can happen, IMO! They either need to go or SVG needs to sit their asses and try to win with the other guys!

This is really bad!!!
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Re: FORUM

Post  deusXango on Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:43 pm

I'd rather not see Datome at all if all he can get is 3-8 minutes every other game...that'll only make him look worse than he really is and how much can he actually contribute during those limited minutes?

I don't understand why Jerebko hasn't gotten his chance to start at SF yet....talk about politics and favoritism and now his minutes are being cut, without sound reason!

I think Spencer Dinwiddie is too mentally strong for this yo-yo, roller coaster, in and out of the rotation SVG has him on to affect his confidence, if that's the objective.

I've got no problem with Singler starting, but take Butler out of the rotation for awhile also...let Martin earn some of his money.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:21 pm

Oracle wrote:
Keith Langlois  @Keith_Langlois
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Pistons will stick with same lineup: Singler at SF, Monroe off bench. SVG says probably playing with 3 perimeters to start for a while
Keith Langlois  @Keith_Langlois
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Part of problem with new lineup, SVG says: Cuts down chances for Jonas Jerebko. But wants to see Cartier Martin. Also, says Datome possible.
With SVG, the good news always comes with some bad because he can't juggle too many players in his head, as his belly pushes up and is applying tremendous pressure on his brain cavity!

So now JJ, who's been productive, must be sat, and Datome has gone from invisible and impossible is now moved to possible... don't hold your breath lol

KCP says it's going to be a challenge to cover Kobe, but he thinks he's up to the task! News Flash for KCP!
1. In Kobe's prime, you'd have as much hope of covering him as I do of taking pictures in the eye of a hurricane!
2. If you can't cover a 90 year old player fresh off of 10 surgeries, we certainly have the wrong SG!

Finally, Goodwill exposes most of SVG's BS while making sure he doesn't totally offend SVG! - Goodwill: Supposed Pistons strength become weaknesses

What this means Oracle is our fearless leader SVG will need to reduce Jerebco's playing time because Smith's minutes must remain in the high 30s. This is in stone along with KCP's massive minutes. It will be tough for Stan for sure. How will he manage to figure this all out. Maybe give Jerebco 2 minutes while starting Singler but limiting him to 18 minutes so he can find out if Datome and Martin will be a nice change up for both Singler and Jerebco as the season moves forward. Did he say anything about Dinwiddie? Of course not because Stan Van Gundy has tunnel vision and must keep playing his two ace point guards Jennings and Augustin until he is either fired or finishes out his contract. Stan will make it look like he is experimenting but will keep playing the players who have had their asses kicked all season and last season around the same amount of minutes. Smith and his butt buddy Jennings will continue to look for each other in the half court offense while making sure to rest on defense. Stan is a contract guy. He plays the players who make the most money. Could he be hitting the high money players up for extra spending money in return for keeping their minutes the same? Stan Van Gundy has made no sense with anything he has done so far. He keeps players in the game regardless of the fact that they stink it up. Then he says in the post game interview that too many players are walking instead of running. Does Stan keep track of which players are not guarding anyone? If he did in the last game, he would have seen Josh Smith stand in the middle of the paint 5 times in a row while his man was unguarded at the 3 point line and make almost all of his shots. Stan Van Gundy never even blinked an eye when that happened. Something is not on the up and up this year. I will take any of the other head coaches who were fired in past seasons. They all had the guts to place Charlie V on the bench. This coach would never do that. Too bad Charlie. You just missed out.

Maybe some fans who will no longer come to Piston games should have a voice as they are paying for the tickets. Did you hear that Mr. Gores???

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It should be fair to judge Singler soon!

Post  Oracle on Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:11 pm

Keith Langlois  @Keith_Langlois
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Pistons will stick with same lineup: Singler at SF, Monroe off bench. SVG says probably playing with 3 perimeters to start for a while
Keith Langlois  @Keith_Langlois
Follow
Part of problem with new lineup, SVG says: Cuts down chances for Jonas Jerebko. But wants to see Cartier Martin. Also, says Datome possible.
With SVG, the good news always comes with some bad because he can't juggle too many players in his head, as his belly pushes up and is applying tremendous pressure on his brain cavity!

So now JJ, who's been productive, must be sat, and Datome has gone from invisible and impossible is now moved to possible... don't hold your breath lol

KCP says it's going to be a challenge to cover Kobe, but he thinks he's up to the task! News Flash for KCP!
1. In Kobe's prime, you'd have as much hope of covering him as I do of taking pictures in the eye of a hurricane!
2. If you can't cover a 90 year old player fresh off of 10 surgeries, we certainly have the wrong SG!

Finally, Goodwill exposes most of SVG's BS while making sure he doesn't totally offend SVG! - Goodwill: Supposed Pistons strength become weaknesses
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:22 pm

Sebastian wrote:if WE loose to the Lakers tonight at what will be a near empty Palace, housed with fans who will only want to see Kobe, and then to the wayward Celtics in Boston, tomorrow night; and finally to the pitiful Sixers at what will surely be an empty Palace on Saturday, then Gores should fire both, GM Stan and Head Coach SVG by the time the Lions kickoff on Sunday.

Really Pistons Pals, if WE lose the next three, Gores should fire GM Stan and Head Coach SVG. Pay him his $7 million for this season and let his ass walk. Then hire Zeke in the dual-capacity roles. Maybe, Zeke would assume the GM/President role, demoting or removing Bowers and then hire Laimbeer, as the Head Coach.

Straight-up! There will need to be a need to take radical steps if by Saturday, WE are 3-17.

Seb if only the Pistons could somehow lose those games it would be the best Piston news that I have heard in a long time. By winning any of those games and especially all 3, somehow the media and some fans might get excited and start believing in this group of players and even Stan Van Gundy. If Stan is actually trying to help this team tank, then I feel pretty stupid. If he is playing the current player combinations while while knowing from the start of training camp what would happen but knowing that his strategy had to be to show the owner and every other person interested in the Detroit Pistons that the team Joe Dumars built could never fill the seats at the Palace. Thank of that for a moment. This is Joe Dumars rebuild after he had such success before the walls came crumbling down starting with his trade for Iverson. But There is only about a 2% chance that Stan Van Gundy could be that smart. This leaves me with the most likely story line which would be that Stan Van Gundy has had no idea what he is doing since the 2nd week of training camp. He can't trade Smith so he keeps playing him more minutes. He has had no offers on Brandon Jennings or DJ Augustin either. We must remember that it was Stan Van Gundy who signed DJ Augustin and Jody Meeks. What if Meeks is as bad as Augustin? What if he also shoots in the 300% category and has issues defending? Where will Stan hide after the season if that happens? If Van Gundy did watch every Piston game last season he wouldn't have dumped Siva. Maybe Siva has his flaws but my best guess is that if he had been given the same playing time as Jennings or Augustin, this team would be looking much better. We have 2 shoot first small type players who cannot defend or pass very well and have no idea as to how to get all other 4 players involved in a half court offense. And if Van Gundy had really studied the down side of all our big men, he would have been worried from the get go and might have pushed more to trade one or all three of our starting bigs.

My final grade for the Stan Van Gundy through November is (F).

Jennings = (C-) ( his stats mean next to nothing because he cannot defend any NBA player). He is guilty of shutting out certain players. He is Josh's squeeze at all times. He did work hard in the off season but maybe on the wrong things.

Augustin = E (DJs shooting stats tell me all I want to know about this player. Plus he cannot defend or run an offense in half court)

Smith = (E) If Smith only played 20 to 22 minutes a game at power forward, he could be more effective but he cannot be played during crunch time because of his poor decision making skills and bogus free throw shooting.

Monroe = (c) It is clear that Greg should not be on the court at all when teams like Golden State play against him. They made a complete fool of him. He is a step slow with his feet and mind. But he can be effective against 2nd tier teams that play slower. Greg should be a sub or regular rotation player.

Drummond = ( C+ ) Andre is trying but is not a complete player yet. Unfortunately he is concentrating more on offense than defense. He looks to be at the same level he was last season regarding defense.

KCP = (D+) KCP always gives good effort but he is too wild and out of control on both ends of the floor. His shooting percentages would get him a full time bench seat on all but maybe 3 other NBA teams. He would look better if the coach would reduce his minutes. He needs to play with smarter players to really grow.

Jerebco = not enough playing time to grade Jonas thanks to this coach. He is shooting the ball well and will find a home on another team next season.

Singler = ( C ) It is not fair to judge Singler either because this coach has made him an after thought in the half court offense. He might touch the ball twice per quarter if he is lucky when Jennings is on the floor with him. Singler will have no problem landing a better gig on another NBA team next season. Why would he want to come back if Stan is his coach?

Dinwiddie = I like what I have seen so far but there is no way to judge him because of the coach's decision not to play Spencer. It was clear to me that this player looked much better playing point guard than either Jennings or Augustin. Van Gundy says Dinwiddie needs more playing time but it was a huge slap in the face when he benched Dinwiddie during that last game when both Jennings and Augustin looked worse than any D league player I have ever seen. Stan must have liked what he saw but he would be the only one. I feel for Spencer. He was a great college player before his injury and appears to have fully recovered. Both Jennings or Augustin would have been run off the court if they had met Dinwiddie in a college game during Spencer's junior year. He was great at both ends and the team leader. Somehow Stan Van Gundy would rather have a high school player as he starting point guard rather than a guy like Dinwiddie who proved himself over and over in big moments during his college history.

One has to wonder if Stan Van Gundy is getting all of his advise from his brother. I have to tune out his brother whenever he announces NBA games.

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"A fool and his money....."

Post  deusXango on Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:01 pm

Sebastian wrote:if WE loose to the Lakers tonight at what will be a near empty Palace, housed with fans who will only want to see Kobe, and then to the wayward Celtics in Boston, tomorrow night; and finally to the pitiful Sixers at what will surely be an empty Palace on Saturday, then Gores should fire both, GM Stan and Head Coach SVG by the time the Lions kickoff on Sunday.

Really Pistons Pals, if WE lose the next three, Gores should fire GM Stan and Head Coach SVG. Pay him his $7 million for this season and let his ass walk. Then hire Zeke in the dual-capacity roles. Maybe, Zeke would assume the GM/President role, demoting or removing Bowers and then hire Laimbeer, as the Head Coach.

Straight-up! There will need to be a need to take radical steps if by Saturday, WE are 3-17.
Sebastian, I feel your pain and hear your cry, loud and clear, but I think GM Stan should be let go and Head Coach SVG should be retained; Stan Van Gundy is drunk with power and has a false sense of security, but stripping him of his role as top dog should be enough of a wake up call for him to start coaching like his proven abilities call for. If Gores doesn't have any performance clauses in SVG's contract, let him pay the price agreed on; "there's two kinds of sense, bought sense and taught sense," and Gores should have some basketball sense by now.

I was never in favor of anyone being hired, after Joe Dumars, other than Isiah Lord Thomas as GM. A pox be on anyone who brings up that New York sh!t, because "the Captain" bleeds red, white, and blue like no other and will bring this franchise back to where it belongs! In my heart of hearts I don't believe Thomas would've made the FA signings that were made last summer and players would've been moved by now; SVG would have a better fitting team to coach by now and the results would be showing. I can't understand why some fans think Joe was the ONLY past Piston fit enough to lead this franchise from the front office (but then fans were against Laimbeer leading from the bench so we've had Curry, Kuester, Lil' Larry, Cheeks, and Loyer....how'd that work out?) and no other has had the opportunity at the GM spot.
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SVG

Post  Sparma on Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:08 pm

7 million this season? Gores won't get rid of SVG so easily unless there's an unusual clause in the contract. Gores is on the hook for 35 mil (5x7). Those two are all in, together, unless buying out a 35 mil contract isn't a big deal to Gores. That's possible, but he sure looked tight with his money when it came to the possibility of buying out Gordon's contract.
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It is not my money, but ...

Post  Sebastian on Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:40 am

if WE loose to the Lakers tonight at what will be a near empty Palace, housed with fans who will only want to see Kobe, and then to the wayward Celtics in Boston, tomorrow night; and finally to the pitiful Sixers at what will surely be an empty Palace on Saturday, then Gores should fire both, GM Stan and Head Coach SVG by the time the Lions kickoff on Sunday.

Really Pistons Pals, if WE lose the next three, Gores should fire GM Stan and Head Coach SVG. Pay him his $7 million for this season and let his ass walk. Then hire Zeke in the dual-capacity roles. Maybe, Zeke would assume the GM/President role, demoting or removing Bowers and then hire Laimbeer, as the Head Coach.

Straight-up! There will need to be a need to take radical steps if by Saturday, WE are 3-17.
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Detroit Pistons have two high school players in Josh Smith and Brandon Jennings. While Labron James came directly from high school to the NBA he grew as a player.

Post  cool breeze on Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:58 am

This thought crossed my mind today and I am wondering if Joe Dumars ever thought of the issues that might come up if he signed two high school players to consume most of the team's payroll who have never grown out of their high school habits. Labron James is a remarkable person and basketball player. If any of you have read his book about his history growing up as a kid, you would know he was born special. He is not the typical high school guy who decides to go for the money out of high school without spending at least one season in college suffering like their other college teammates while conforming to team concepts and leaving behind all the past days of individual glory as a high school player. I say this because this year U of Arizona has a super freshman, Stanley Johnson. He has won 4 state championships and played all five positions. He was different than Arron Gordon when he arrived in Tucson to play pick up games with his new teammates. Gordon might be one of the most unselfish team first players that I have ever seen who is gifted like other high school McDonald All Americans. Gordon blended in and gave the team and coach what the team wanted. Johnson came intent on doing the same thing he did in high school. What was there to learn? He wanted to win in college but for sure he came in because he had to according to the current NBA rules. Coach Sean Miller knew he had his work cut out for him to get Johnson on board in becoming a team first player who his teammates could respect and form good chemistry. It didn't happen right away for sure and when I saw Johnson play his first game, my buddy and I wondered if it would be possible for Stanley to make the adjustment. But then in the Maui Classic, Johnson finally showed that he is a good teammate and has blended his amazing skills to fit the skills of his teammates. This one year of playing college basketball where johnson is learning why the basic fundamentals are important on defense and offense will serve him throughout his NBA career. He is 6 foot 7 and weighs 245 pounds but has the quickness of a small point guard and is like an agile freight train when he gets into the lane. He can block shots, stay in front of his man on defense and just plays smart which is a 100% turnaround from the way he played in September and October. The coaches have really gotten in his face and he has been forced to listen. And now he appreciates everything the coaches have done for him.

Now flash back to Smith and Jennings who both missed the critical college experience which for gifted players is the place where you transform yourself into a real basketball player. You suffer loses regardless of your athletic ability in college games. You are forced to change and gather more knowledge or you will be sitting on the bench in most good college programs regardless of what you did in high school. It is clear as a bell that Josh Smith misses this experience. For instance, he signed his first contract out of high school never having learned the basic fundamentals of the game. He was a poor free throw shooter in high school and he is among the worst or perhaps the worst free throw shooter in the NBA after many seasons as a paid professional NBA basketball player. He loses concentration on defense but a few years ago he could recover and still block shots. Now he is left with his high school skills. He never learned how to play smart. Yet he knows the NBA game and can look at times like he is a gifted player. But there are now better NBA players in the league who have done tons of extra work and have molded their game in college. They have a huge advantage over Smith.

You can say the same thing about Brandon Jennings relating to Jennings still being in the mold of his high school playing days. He played one season over seas but didn't learn anything new. In fact when Jennings signed his contract with the Pistons he made statements to the press that he would become a better passer and play like he did in AAU ball. Jennings was never forced to play defense in AAU. All he did was dribble up the floor and shoot the ball most of the time. Perhaps he made a nice pass on a fast break but his experience playing AAU ball actually prevented him from learning the basics of team orientated play that most high school players get in Michigan schools where more strategy is involved relating to specific opponents. Jennings played every AAU game the same way. What did he learn?

So how can an NBA team ever win anything if you have your highest paid players playing most of the minutes of every game? There is a reason whey both remain the same players they were when they entered the league with the exception of Josh Smith who has lost a lot of his physical abilities. How much confidence do other Piston players have in Josh Smith or Brandon Jennings? They are both freaks of nature and extremely talented but lack something and all of those other Piston players know it. That is why Josh Smith and Brandon Jennings have made this special bond with each other. You can see it each and every game where they look for each other. Meanwhile players like Kyle Singler who was MVP of the NCAA tournament as a junior where his team won the national championship can only stand on the baseline beyond the 3 point line watching the action at the other side of the floor.

So what does this say about our new coach, Stan Van Gundy. All he has done is throw out the basketball and say hey guys Josh and Brandon are your leaders and you follow whatever they want to do. Van Gundy has not done his job from the very beginning. He inherited these two players but that is no excuse for playing them together for so many minutes each game. Add KCP to this mix of Smith and Jennings and you have a real mess on your hands. KCP needs to play less minutes with more talented team orientated players so he can learn to do a few things consistently well. If his minutes are reduced and he plays with a different group of players, I fully expect that his shooting percentage and passing skills will greatly improve. So far, Van Gundy has not made any adjustments during actual games. He stays with his pre arranged rotation system regardless of what has happened on the court. Why not have the ball boy plug in the numbers Mr. Gores?

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