Agreed...

[Go Stones!]

What bothers me the most is that teams are beginning to find that the best way to beat our frontline is to attack them straight up!

They need to shut that sh!t down ASAP!

You can't let teams attack your bigs and get away with it on a regular basis, we need them to step up and make them pay for that strategy.

Moose is the biggest reason they feel they can do that. Get a hard-nosed PF in there and everything changes! Josh is pretty tough on SF standards and Dre is learning to be even more of a beast (he has times he looks like someone took his innocence away as he looks to the bench like he is going to tell his mommy), but Moose is a totally different story.

Jennings is a hard-nosed PG and Stuckey a hard-nosed SG.

Change Moose out and you have the likeliness of the 1989-90 Bad Boys!

[Oracle]

What bothers me the most is that teams are beginning to find that the best way to beat our frontline is to attack them straight up!

They need to shut that sh!t down ASAP!

You can't let teams attack your bigs and get away with it on a regular basis, we need them to step up and make them pay for that strategy.

[Oracle]

I wouldn't call Stuckey a savior but those 16 points have been missed the last 3 games and his defense would have been far better than what they were getting out of CB last night.

Tired of hearing about other PF getting the better of Moose, he's weak defensively and timid on offense.  "PUSSY" fits him very well because that's what he plays like.  Here's a guy that has the potential to be a good as 20+ points and 12 rebounds if he went out and played hard and tough.  There has to be a good trade for him somewhere.  

We do need scoring and IMO it doesn't matter what position it comes from. Many think we need to upgrade the SG IMO Moose needs to live up to all the hype he gets consistently put up the numbers I mentioned.  His lack of a mid-range game is what hurts the team and spacing have been a problem and without it the whole team suffers.   Jennings can't get to the rack because it's pack with his own team mates half the time.  Josh can't attack for the same reason because someone can't step out 12 feet and consistently knockdown shots.  

I don't expect Moose Fat Arse to win all his match ups but at least be **** close and make the opposing PF work on defense some of the time at least.  

Moose isn't all to blame because we shoot like **** from the perimeter KCP won't be an effective player until he's giving a green light to shoot, otherwise he;s a bad fit. As I said before he's not a shooter he's a scorer. They should try running him off screens much in the way LB and Flip did with Rip.  

This is such an excellent post!

1.  No, Moose isn't all to blame, but he's getting the lions share of it because his lack of, even trying a midrange shot is killing the entire offense!

2. Excellent observation on KCP! IMO, I don't think a green light is going to help him, I think he's a defensive specialist at this point of his career. We need a player that we don't have to give a green light to, because he commands the light on his own!

[Oracle]

There are too many games played too close together for any fans to enjoy NBA basketball in the regular season. As the season wears on the quality of plays becomes worse. Weak minded players become weaker. Stronger minded players gut it out and accept the punishment of travel and fatigue. But what is there for the fans who want to bring their families to the games so their kids can see how the best basketball is played? Do NBA players bring their kids to the games? Lopsided games are happening a lot these days and the front office is ignoring what is happening. At some point the fans will not be interested. I think that there are many thousands of former Piston fans who have reached this point in the past 5 years. Which GMs are looking to stock their teams with tough minded players? I know that Joe Dumars is not among that group. That is not a quality Joe has been interested in for some time.

I don't remember when we've had so many back to backs, 3-4 games in 4-5 days being scheduled in a non-strike season!

This is STUPID, and teams need to start complaining!

Even so, there's no excuse for what we've seen in the last two games!

[Go Stones!]

So, Orlando has a lot of potential around the corner for them. They will get a lottery pick and they have a TON of money coming off their books. I say we assist them in taking by sending them CV and get Afflalo in return...the other option is to trade Stuckey for AA. Either way they get an expiring contract and we get a decent contract for a SG/6th man-type player!

Reasons why this doesn't happen:
1. Joe D would have to admit that he chose the wrong player to ship off.
2. Orlando is in denial that they are that bad.
3. Orlando GM doesn't have a dog...therefore no reason for Joe D to call him.

Reasons why this would work:
1. Helps Orlando shed more money for a better FA signing next year.
2. Helps Detroit with their biggest weakness - SG depth

Assuming trading Stuckey (worst case scenario):
PG- Jennings, Billups, Bynum, Siva
SG- AA, KCP
SF- JSmith, Singler, JJ, Datome
PF- Monroe, CV, Mitchell
C - Dre, Jorts

Heck, I'd even throw in our 2nd round pick in the future with CV for AA...

[cool breeze]

There are too many games played too close together for any fans to enjoy NBA basketball in the regular season. As the season wears on the quality of plays becomes worse. Weak minded players become weaker. Stronger minded players gut it out and accept the punishment of travel and fatigue. But what is there for the fans who want to bring their families to the games so their kids can see how the best basketball is played? Do NBA players bring their kids to the games? Lopsided games are happening a lot these days and the front office is ignoring what is happening. At some point the fans will not be interested. I think that there are many thousands of former Piston fans who have reached this point in the past 5 years. Which GMs are looking to stock their teams with tough minded players? I know that Joe Dumars is not among that group. That is not a quality Joe has been interested in for some time.

[FlyDog]

Yikes.

[cool breeze]

Pitiful is the word to use for the players on this team. And I can't dog on Josh Smith in this last game. Our big men Monroe and Drummond are playing defense like lost puppies who have not been fed or had any sleep for several days. Monroe is still wondering away for his assigned man on defense and standing outside the paint as if he is out on a casual walk. We can see the faces of the opponents and their effort. Those guys were in the game in a big way. But our players just stand around on offense while Jennings tries to stir some interest in these slugs. Where is the movement? And how many times did we see Monroe do the Charlie V shuffle down the court like he had a turd in his pants to play defense. If Monroe does run back and get in the block on defense that is as far as it goes. He likes to switch and make sure he doesn't get hurt when the shot goes up. This team is not playing basketball are they? Jerebco worked his butt off but tried to do too much on offense at times. That was because nobody moves without the ball on offense. It is amazing to me to see players who are getting paid big money not put out any effort. How embarrassing it should be for them to return home to their families after such a performance. After the last two games where it was clear few of the players even wanted to play basketball, what person in their right mind would actually buy a ticket and travel in the cold to see this team play? You have to be insane to watch this stuff on television. I must be crazy because I stayed with it to the end once again. Last night it appeared that these players had never played one game together. Nobody really stood out who wore a Piston uniform. And these guys make millions of dollars.

There is nothing the coaching staff can do to help some of these players. It is like a hard drug user. You can't make them quit. They have to want to quit. Some of the key players have a habit of coming into the game in the first half slacking off and resting at every opportunity. It is up to Joe Dumars to figure out this mess. And he has no idea how to judge players it appears. Monroe played like he is playing now at Georgetown. He was lazy and out of shape. He is still lazy and out of shape and cannot keep up with quality players in the NBA. Drummond is working at it trying to get better but he is slipping big time on defense big time. Harrellson is a more fundamentally sound player right now than either Drummond or Monroe. It seems that Drummond likes to dunk and he has some quickness. But you can't lose concentration like a 5 year old on defense. You have to anticipate plays and stay with your assigned man on defense. Jennings was horrible on defense again. His offense is troublesome as well but I do not believe that any point guard can function well with this group of starters. Players need to move and set screens and know the offense. There is no offense it seems. Everything is one on one and very primitive. Harrellson and Jerebco are showing more spunk that our starting big men and it doesn't take much for them to play smarter than Monroe and Drummond. God I feel sorry for the coaching staff.

[WTF]

I wouldn't call Stuckey a savior but those 16 points have been missed the last 3 games and his defense would have been far better than what they were getting out of CB last night.

Tired of hearing about other PF getting the better of Moose, he's weak defensively and timid on offense. "PUSSY" fits him very well because that's what he plays like. Here's a guy that has the potential to be a good as 20+ points and 12 rebounds if he went out and played hard and tough. There has to be a good trade for him somewhere.

We do need scoring and IMO it doesn't matter what position it comes from. Many think we need to upgrade the SG IMO Moose needs to live up to all the hype he gets consistently put up the numbers I mentioned. His lack of a mid-range game is what hurts the team and spacing have been a problem and without it the whole team suffers. Jennings can't get to the rack because it's pack with his own team mates half the time. Josh can't attack for the same reason because someone can't step out 12 feet and consistently knockdown shots.

I don't expect Moose Fat Arse to win all his match ups but at least be **** close and make the opposing PF work on defense some of the time at least.

Moose isn't all to blame because we shoot like **** from the perimeter KCP won't be an effective player until he's giving a green light to shoot, otherwise he;s a bad fit. As I said before he's not a shooter he's a scorer. They should try running him off screens much in the way LB and Flip did with Rip.

[Murph]

 Holy crap! What was that?   

I hope that wasn't Chauncey Billups screwing up the pace and chemistry of the game. He looks slow out there.

We had no answer for Kevin Love. He destroyed us. He went off for 26 pts, 16 rbds and 7 asts. Moose only guarded him for 20 minutes, but it was ugly.

Jennings was completely ineffective against Rubio also. Rubio did whatever he wanted to on the court.

In general our defense was miserable.

Individually, a number of Pistons had good offensive games. Moose shot well. Smith scored 17. Jennings distributed 7 asts, to go with his 20 pts.

And Tony Mitchell had a very nice game off the bench, with 4 pts and 4 rbds in 10 minutes.


We go back on the road. Next up?...the Pelicans in NO. We'd better show up defensively.

[merc]

Moosefan is a cannibal... luvs chewing Moose's arse   

[Oracle]

Phillip beat me to it, and btw Phillip, you've been on a roll lately, IMO!

Fear: If Rodney Stuckey is your savior, you're in bigger trouble than you know!

Advice: Does Josh take too many 3 pointers? No, he's practicing during game time, and that's good as long as he knows when to stop, i.e. don't screw up a win!

However, my advice is to Moose! Stop getting scared of 10 foot jumpers! So you're going to miss some, but you'll never get any confidence by passing up the effing shot!!!

Lastly, Joe, get busy while Stuckey is on the sideline! Don't take a chance that he comes back playing like a dog... capitalize on that sh!t right now!!!!

[Phil-Good]

That's when you know your A bad team when you actually miss Rodney Stuckey on your team.

This Is A bad team. I don't mind the Pistons being A bad team but what I do mind is the Piston not playing any defense what-so-ever!

This is what I don't get about the new NBA. WHY IN THE F***K do you always have to double team and help from the weak side?? What happen to one on one, Ben Wallace vs Shaq, no double team, man to man, I will let 1 player get his but everybody will be shut down, basketball??

Now everything is help, help, help, help, weak-side, always gets A open look at 3pt shots.

There's no such as 1 on 1 NBA basketball anymore.

[Sebastian]

Damn! WE got rolled by the Timberwolves. There was absolutely no defense at the Point. Rubio and Berea did whatever they wanted to do.

Joe needs to fix this team, quick! I don't know if it can wait until, Sunday, December 15.

[WTF]

Honestly we need Moose to step his **** up and stop taking games off. Joe call New York and ask them if they want to send us Melo for CV, Moose, JJ, Bynum. I swear I rather have both Josh's at the PF right now.   

[Oracle]

Right now, we need a more balanced player starting games, one that can defend, but score as well.

I have no doubt that KCP will be that player some day, but that day isn't today!

IMO, Joe needs to make a move for a scoring SG, I think we're set at SF with Smith & Singler!

@Wise - On Stuckey, it's not only the defense, when you have to account for a guy that will attack the rim and has a pull up jumper, it opens up the floor for a lot of other things! We need that level of threat and it could come through a trade, but right now, it's Stuckey!

Welcome back Chauncey, you're about as useless as you were before the injury!

[WTF]

What's surprising is that if shots aren't falling, very few of this group can get to the basket and score, and that's where we're missing Stuckey!

Funny thing is P-Boy and DX think we need to trade him when he's the second leading scorer on the team. Not only do they miss those 16 points they're missing his defense as well.

[Oracle]

What's surprising is that if shots aren't falling, very few of this group can get to the basket and score, and that's where we're missing Stuckey!

[Oracle]

As Monroe takes another **** in his pants and lay down as usual.  This **** has to be addressed team looked so much better when Cheeks was rolling with Harrellson, Andre and Smith.   I'm telling you that we need to trade his Bitch Ass! Sooner than later.  

Yeah, this is getting UGLY!!!

[WTF]

As Monroe takes another **** in his pants and lay down as usual. This **** has to be addressed team looked so much better when Cheeks was rolling with Harrellson, Andre and Smith. I'm telling you that we need to trade his Bitch Ass! Sooner than later.

[Oracle]

In my opinion, if you not ready to make A run for the Championship then you should always be in A mood for A good trade. R.Stuckey will not be in A Pistons uniform next season. Stuckey has shown everybody with eyes that the Pistons need A good 6th man. A young J.Crawford type of 6th man.

The Pistons need to be looking for that. Usually I would give names but for real, I can't come up with A list of names off the top of my head.

Absolutely, because it's games like this one that makes it clear that we don't need no additional stinking firepower in the starting lineup(dripping sarcasm)!

[Phil-Good]

In my opinion, if you not ready to make A run for the Championship then you should always be in A mood for A good trade. R.Stuckey will not be in A Pistons uniform next season. Stuckey has shown everybody with eyes that the Pistons need A good 6th man. A young J.Crawford type of 6th man.

The Pistons need to be looking for that. Usually I would give names but for real, I can't come up with A list of names off the top of my head.

[Oracle]

As I said earlier, this is of course not a clean black/white issue!

Having said that, DX made a very important comment, which I'll restate in a different way.

Trades shouldn't be based on waiting to see what happens, trades should be based on opportunity, because opportunities have windows.

If you miss the window, the opportunity may not come back for years!

That's not to say we need to do anything now, we're not likely to be in a position to know fully what's going on and who's approaching Joe with what deal.

However, I think that everyone has presented arguments that I could go with and feel comfortable following.

This is just one of those unresolvable things that are great to discuss and give opinions on...

BTW, on a more pressing subject: Chauncey is back for tonight's game! I wonder how the minutes will be assigned?

[deusXango]

Right now, I don't thing there's any urgency to make a trade.  We aren't really Championship contenders yet, so IMO, there's no need to tweak the rotation yet.
It's always time to improve the talent on a team, even among contenders. The urgency is based on the possible unavailability of a player "later on."

I'd like to see how this current group of Pistons develops, what kind of chemistry they can produce, and can they address some major questions.  For example, can Jennings become more of a facilitator?  Can Monroe improve his defense?  Can Smith eventually learn to guard SFs?  Can Smith eventually hit outside shots with consistency?  Can Billups get healthy and contribute as a reserve PG?
What would it take for Jennings to become more of a facilitator, 15 assists a game? He's much better than what we've had for years, and Chauncey didn't get the whole team involved as much as Jennings does now; this team doesn't have the cohesiveness that the 2004 team did.

IMO, at the current stage of their development, it's more important to try to work through the above questions than it is to unload various players in a knee-jerk reaction, in hopes that the new players to be brought in can mesh better.
It's not "knee-jerk" to capitalize on the value of players that are not playing a major part of our teams contention, now or in the future; we're used to lateral trades, where the team didn't really benefit from them...hopefully those days are behind us.  

And IMO, the answers to all the above questions will be "yes" by the end of the season.  But if after an entire season, some of the above issues still have not been resolved, then it might be time to address those issues though a trade or trades.
I've been sold on the wait until the trade deadline, then wait until seasons end, and nothing happened at either point in time; prognostication is what I believe it's called.

So, patience Pistons fans.  We've waited almost 6 years for Joe to accumulate a group of players this talented.  We can certainly wait another 5 months, before we start trading them away.
Sounds good, but this is not the best Joe could have done, so IMHO, he still has work to do; he's sat on his ass for 5 years and that's break enough!!

Murph, my rebuttal was to offer you another point of view, not tear down your position; you've given me some food for thought.

[Murph]

Right now, I don't thing there's any urgency to make a trade.  We aren't really Championship contenders yet, so IMO, there's no need to tweak the rotation yet.

I'd like to see how this current group of Pistons develops, what kind of chemistry they can produce, and can they address some major questions.  For example, can Jennings become more of a facilitator?  Can Monroe improve his defense?  Can Smith eventually learn to guard SFs?  Can Smith eventually hit outside shots with consistency?  Can Billups get healthy and contribute as a reserve PG?

IMO, at the current stage of their development, it's more important to try to work through the above questions than it is to unload various players in a knee-jerk reaction, in hopes that the new players to be brought in can mesh better.

And IMO, the answers to all the above questions will be "yes" by the end of the season.  But if after an entire season, some of the above issues still have not been resolved, then it might be time to address those issues though a trade or trades.

So, patience Pistons fans.  We've waited almost 6 years for Joe to accumulate a group of players this talented.  We can certainly wait another 5 months, before we start trading them away.

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