B. Jennings ...

[Sebastian]

I couldn't have said it better myself.  I have a very different read on last night's game.  I saw Jennings pounding the ball late in the shot clock on nearly every posession down the stretch...and then often having to chuck up a wild 3 as the shot clock expired.

Here's an interesting stat.  In the 4 game win streak, Jennings dished 8.3 apg.  In this 3 game losing streak, he's dishing 5.7 apg.  We need him to be more of a facilitator, and less of a scorer.  We need Jennings to do less.

Moose was just about the only Pistons to show up last night, along with Stuckey.  Moose was in the game for the entire 4th quarter, when we came back from a 9 pt deficit.

Singler has lost his jump shot again.    


Next up the Nets at home.  If we don't win that one, we're in big trouble.

Murph it appears to me that Jennings is being forced into this role of a shoot first point guard because the other 4 players do not move without the ball, set screens or show that they want the basketball. Someone has to act like they are a threat to score so Jennings does that. Detroit's half court offense is horrible. We do not have the Richard Hamilton type of player who is running 90 miles an hour around screens and working his butt off to get open. Smith fails to move without the basketball until the end of games it seems. KCP is not established as a consistent scorer and is not a real part of the offense. You need your shooting guard to be part of the offense. The bigs need to work harder to set screens and roll to the basket. But there is just too much standing and I am sure the coaching staff is concerned with this basic lack of work ethic.

One huge problem for the coaching staff of resolve is the fact that opposing teams are showing how weak our Pistons are on defense. Detroit gets few stops and cannot get out on a fast break. I think the idea going into this season was that Detroit would run a lot more and get a lot of easy baskets. That is not happening because the other team is scoring almost on every possession. Being that the half court offense lacks movement and the players lack the necessary skill set to be a good half court type offensive team, plus the fact that this team has a horrible free throw percentage, how can the best coach in the world turn this team around????? I think that something needs to be done with the starters because it is just not working well starting Smith, Moose, and Drummond with two guards who cannot stop dribble penetration. And there is much less movement in the half court offense with Moose, Drummond and Smith on the floor together. Remember Prince playing small forward and being more of a part of the offense and moving to get open? Why is Smith standing on the baseline so much resting?

B. Jennings may be the most dynamic PG that WE have had on OUR roster in awhile, but he dribbles too much and he gets into too many personal duals with opposing PGs.

[WTF]

The biggest reason why Detroit lost that game was poor free throw shooting. Is that a coaching issue Wise? And don't forget Monroe failing to find Anderson in the overtime allowing him to shoot wide open 3s. This is just basic stuff that all players should know. If you are assigned a player on defense who most likely will be set up for a 3 point shot attempt, then you need to find that player the moment you start running back on defense. - Cool Breeze

I never said why or indicate why we loss the game last night nor did I conclude Cheeks and his staff is the blame so WTF are you talking about man   Now apologize for wrongly accusing me of something I didn't write

Moosefan I was responding to what Wise said and Oracle commented on involving the idea that the coaching staff has not created a more complicated offense. I think the opposite is true that the coaching staff needs to create a defense at least that is even more basic because this group of starters cannot grasp the simple concepts in their minds. How about players like Monroe and Drummond to not be allowed to switch on a screen to a small guard. They need to stop the guard and stay with their man and roll with him down in the paint. It is easy to switch and takes less effort so they are not fooling the coaching staff at all. And I am sure those players are told to do the right thing about 20 times a day. Monroe has done this and cost the team now for 3 seasons. He can change and if so when?

Wise and MooseFan are the same poster, And you still didn't see where I posted Cheeks was to blame. Oracle was saying that he agreed Cheeks schemes are simple but thinks it the problem. So take it back   

[cool breeze]

The biggest reason why Detroit lost that game was poor free throw shooting. Is that a coaching issue Wise? And don't forget Monroe failing to find Anderson in the overtime allowing him to shoot wide open 3s. This is just basic stuff that all players should know. If you are assigned a player on defense who most likely will be set up for a 3 point shot attempt, then you need to find that player the moment you start running back on defense. - Cool Breeze

I never said why or indicate why we loss the game last night nor did I conclude Cheeks and his staff is the blame so WTF are you talking about man   Now apologize for wrongly accusing me of something I didn't write

Moosefan I was responding to what Wise said and Oracle commented on involving the idea that the coaching staff has not created a more complicated offense. I think the opposite is true that the coaching staff needs to create a defense at least that is even more basic because this group of starters cannot grasp the simple concepts in their minds. How about players like Monroe and Drummond to not be allowed to switch on a screen to a small guard. They need to stop the guard and stay with their man and roll with him down in the paint. It is easy to switch and takes less effort so they are not fooling the coaching staff at all. And I am sure those players are told to do the right thing about 20 times a day. Monroe has done this and cost the team now for 3 seasons. He can change and if so when?

[cool breeze]

I couldn't have said it better myself.  I have a very different read on last night's game.  I saw Jennings pounding the ball late in the shot clock on nearly every posession down the stretch...and then often having to chuck up a wild 3 as the shot clock expired.

Here's an interesting stat.  In the 4 game win streak, Jennings dished 8.3 apg.  In this 3 game losing streak, he's dishing 5.7 apg.  We need him to be more of a facilitator, and less of a scorer.  We need Jennings to do less.

Moose was just about the only Pistons to show up last night, along with Stuckey.  Moose was in the game for the entire 4th quarter, when we came back from a 9 pt deficit.

Singler has lost his jump shot again.    


Next up the Nets at home.  If we don't win that one, we're in big trouble.

Murph it appears to me that Jennings is being forced into this role of a shoot first point guard because the other 4 players do not move without the ball, set screens or show that they want the basketball. Someone has to act like they are a threat to score so Jennings does that. Detroit's half court offense is horrible. We do not have the Richard Hamilton type of player who is running 90 miles an hour around screens and working his butt off to get open. Smith fails to move without the basketball until the end of games it seems. KCP is not established as a consistent scorer and is not a real part of the offense. You need your shooting guard to be part of the offense. The bigs need to work harder to set screens and roll to the basket. But there is just too much standing and I am sure the coaching staff is concerned with this basic lack of work ethic.

One huge problem for the coaching staff of resolve is the fact that opposing teams are showing how weak our Pistons are on defense. Detroit gets few stops and cannot get out on a fast break. I think the idea going into this season was that Detroit would run a lot more and get a lot of easy baskets. That is not happening because the other team is scoring almost on every possession. Being that the half court offense lacks movement and the players lack the necessary skill set to be a good half court type offensive team, plus the fact that this team has a horrible free throw percentage, how can the best coach in the world turn this team around????? I think that something needs to be done with the starters because it is just not working well starting Smith, Moose, and Drummond with two guards who cannot stop dribble penetration. And there is much less movement in the half court offense with Moose, Drummond and Smith on the floor together. Remember Prince playing small forward and being more of a part of the offense and moving to get open? Why is Smith standing on the baseline so much resting?

[WTF]

The biggest reason why Detroit lost that game was poor free throw shooting. Is that a coaching issue Wise? And don't forget Monroe failing to find Anderson in the overtime allowing him to shoot wide open 3s. This is just basic stuff that all players should know. If you are assigned a player on defense who most likely will be set up for a 3 point shot attempt, then you need to find that player the moment you start running back on defense. - Cool Breeze

I never said why or indicate why we loss the game last night nor did I conclude Cheeks and his staff is the blame so WTF are you talking about man   Now apologize for wrongly accusing me of something I didn't write

[cool breeze]

That was a fun game. Stuckey hurt his shooting hand in the 4th quarter and was limited after that but he sure put on a great performance. Stuckey really loves playing for Cheeks. He is a new man. Monroe showed that he is much better than the previous few games if he wants to be. I thought he was great on offense. His defense is still a work in progress but the potential is still there for him to be a valuable player. Jennings played his heart and had limited turnovers until late in the game. He is forced to do too much because of lack of movement and effort by others when playing offense. I thought another positive of this game was the work of Harrellson and Singler in the 2nd half when Detroit was down by 12 when they entered the game. This is when the game changed in a positive way. They both pushed and boxed out on defense and didn't allow any offensive rebounds which had been killing the Pistons all night. They both worked their butts off doing the little things that make a difference. When Drummond returned to the game he played at a high level so I assume that Rasheed was telling him look at what Harrellson and singler are doing in the paint. Finally another positive was the work of Smith at the end of the game. However, he didn't do much in the first half and Detroit seems to be having a habit of starting out poorly. Should Cheeks consider a change in the starting unit bringing in either Monroe or Drummond off the bench? This might work because the Piston defense could set the tone early before the team gets in a big hole. Both Monroe and Drummond are really young players. Big men take much longer to become complete players in the NBA because they come into the league with a lot of bad habits because of poor coaching and lack of interest in defense. The Pistons still need a top tier combo guard so this team is still a work in progress with some pieces still missing.

[cool breeze]

@Wise - Cheeks is absolutely a problem! You're right, he's not giving them anything too complicated... and that's the problem!!!

The crap is so simple it's not fooling anybody, and keeping it simple also means that there aren't many options to go to!

Something is wrong, and I see many other teams with new systems and players no dumber than ours with more complicated offense & defenses!

IMO, Franks offense & defense would be working better right now than what we have, and you know what I thought of Frank! - Oracle

How can you employ anything more complicated when the players can't grasps the simplicity of his defense and offense sets now.  I don't think its because opposing teams can see the **** coming, I think its more about poor execution and personnel that  hinders thing.   My point is validate by this; we see the Pick and Roll coming all game long and can't do nothing about it.  There's nothing complicated about what opposing teams are doing to us we just can't defend it.  Other teams just simply play harder and smarter than we do.  This team might be more talented than last seasons but it doesn't play nearly as hard as last season team.

You are correct Oracle. Wise is on the wrong track one again placing blame where it doesn't belong. The coaching staff and Mo Cheeks did not teach the players to stand around without any movement on offense. This is where the team gets in trouble on offense. There is so much standing that they cannot get into position to rebound on a missed shot. One example was late in the game with 7 seconds left on the clock with a side out of bounds. Jennings received the initial pass and the other 4 players failed to move at all standing in the same spots they were in when the ball was entered. Jennings was forced to shoot an impossible 3 point shot.

The biggest reason why Detroit lost that game was poor free throw shooting. Is that a coaching issue Wise? And don't forget Monroe failing to find Anderson in the overtime allowing him to shoot wide open 3s. This is just basic stuff that all players should know. If you are assigned a player on defense who most likely will be set up for a 3 point shot attempt, then you need to find that player the moment you start running back on defense.

[WTF]

@Wise - Cheeks is absolutely a problem! You're right, he's not giving them anything too complicated... and that's the problem!!!

The crap is so simple it's not fooling anybody, and keeping it simple also means that there aren't many options to go to!

Something is wrong, and I see many other teams with new systems and players no dumber than ours with more complicated offense & defenses!

IMO, Franks offense & defense would be working better right now than what we have, and you know what I thought of Frank! - Oracle

How can you employ anything more complicated when the players can't grasps the simplicity of his defense and offense sets now. I don't think its because opposing teams can see the **** coming, I think its more about poor execution and personnel that hinders thing. My point is validate by this; we see the Pick and Roll coming all game long and can't do nothing about it. There's nothing complicated about what opposing teams are doing to us we just can't defend it. Other teams just simply play harder and smarter than we do. This team might be more talented than last seasons but it doesn't play nearly as hard as last season team.

[Murph]

I couldn't have said it better myself. I have a very different read on last night's game. I saw Jennings pounding the ball late in the shot clock on nearly every posession down the stretch...and then often having to chuck up a wild 3 as the shot clock expired.

Here's an interesting stat. In the 4 game win streak, Jennings dished 8.3 apg. In this 3 game losing streak, he's dishing 5.7 apg. We need him to be more of a facilitator, and less of a scorer. We need Jennings to do less.

Moose was just about the only Pistons to show up last night, along with Stuckey. Moose was in the game for the entire 4th quarter, when we came back from a 9 pt deficit.

Singler has lost his jump shot again.   


Next up the Nets at home. If we don't win that one, we're in big trouble.

[Oracle]

Both Moose & Josh will generally wind up with decent numbers, but I swear I don't know how they get them, and I'm sure that both do not represent how bad they were for us!

Monroe just can't shoot to save his life! Can't hit FT's can't hit midrange, can't shoot deep, and can't reliably finish around the rim if jumping is involved!

Moose has me flummoxed! He usually starts out so slow that we think he's crap, then comes on strong!

This year he starts out fast and turns into a frog... WTF???

Josh may go dumb at times, but it's Moose that's screwing up almost everything we're doing offensively and defensively.

Trade him? I don't know that you could get fly sh!t for his ass at this point!

Don't ask me why, but the highs and lows of this team makes them sometimes less fun to watch than the crappy team we had last year, and I watched almost every game last year and never felt this bad about losses!

If this keeps up, I may have to seek professional help  

@Wise - Cheeks is absolutely a problem! You're right, he's not giving them anything too complicated... and that's the problem!!!

The crap is so simple it's not fooling anybody, and keeping it simple also means that there aren't many options to go to!

Something is wrong, and I see many other teams with new systems and players no dumber than ours with more complicated offense & defenses!

IMO, Franks offense & defense would be working better right now than what we have, and you know what I thought of Frank!

IMO, Merc is a bit off, even if I understand where he's coming from. If Joe sits around and waits to see how this works out, he's sleeping at the switch!

After 20 games, it is what it is! Players generally get better and adapt to the system better after 20 games, but if the trajectory isn't going in the right direction, waiting will only produce even dire results!

Joe, at a minimum, needs to address the shooting issues and make whatever trades are possible to get someone in here that can his a shot(get KCP out of the starting lineup for now).

Keep Stuckey if possible, but dangle CV, Bynum or JJ to get something!

[WTF]

These players would make any coach look bad, its not like Cheeks has deployed some complicated system on either side of the ball. These players are just a bunch of Knuckleheads without basic fundamentals to play the right way and Cheeks can only dummy down his play book so much.

If I question anything about Cheeks it is at times his lineup at certain points in the game. First thing he needs to do is stop saving Drummond from fouling out of games and stop leaving Smith out of the lineup for long stretches he does for more good things than he does bad things to be sitting for as long as he does. I honestly think Cheeks needs to take a page of Saunders book on how to play his starters (never take their ass out of the game) because he doesn't have a decent bench. No more tweaking take the top 8 players and roll with them come hell or high water.

I can't blame Cheeks for Moose's inconsistent play Moose has been this way under 3 different coaches now, I blame Joe for not trading his ass. A coach is only as good as his talent and well this team is very talented they are as dumb as a door knob and lazy to boot.

[WTF]

Okay Wise, I've got a trade for you; Greg Monroe for Ryan Anderson. Greg Monroe has shown his ass, whenever he's gone home, and maybe they don't know just how inconsistent he is. He's the big man they could use to move Anthony Davis to PF, and take him out of the middle, where his game can really shine; we'd get the stretch 4 who uses his head, that'd be the perfect compliment for Drummond and Smith. WE NEED SOMEONE WHO CAN SHOOT ON OUR FRONTLINE!!! Well? What do you think Wise?

DX, sadly I would trade Moose for just about any other starting PF in the league right now, I know he had some good numbers last night but missing FT's especially those in crunch time was a killer. His numbers look good but he actually played crappy last night again his inability to be an effective Mid-range shooter is more harmful to the team than a lot of folks realizes. I'm not asking him to hit the long three like Love and Anderson but it would be nice if he took a page out Boozers and Griffins book and become better 10-12 feet out.

[Phil-Good]

The NBA is A copy-cat league. First: Detroit can't defend the pick and roll at all. That's all Minnesota and NO did tonight and last night. Run the Pick and roll every time down.

When you get Detroit defense moving and they have to make decisions, they will always collapse. The Pistons will leave anybody open for 3pt shots no matter how many you have make in A row.

The Pistons do have shot blocking but they don't trust it. They don't believe in it. If you get in the paint or the middle of the paint, 1 simple pass and you will get A easy, open shot because the ENTIRE TEAM IS COMING TO HELP GUARANTEED


Detroit Defense is the bottom of the barrel in the League. The worst I have seen in YEARS!!

[merc]

It should be interesting to see if progress can be made...
I'm gonna bookmark the stats today... do some comparisons in 30 & 60 days
Stats today

[merc]

This is pretty much what everyone and their brother said after the new acquisitions
1) Smith would play like a knucklehead and be a chucker
2) Jennings can't defend and he'd be a low % volume shooter
3) Moose would struggle stretching the D and defending the perimeter.

In some respects they are playing better than we thought... Jennings is seeing the floor well.... and Stuckey is playing better than expected.
With that said they should get more than a couple months to see the true product... there is still a decent chance of spreading the floor and leveraging the size advantage.
Defensively it's a mess... however a lot of this can still be corrected from a mental aspect (not so much for lack of foot speed or size)....
Most players require an adjustment period learning a new system and learning how to compliment the team.... this isn't just a flip of the switch solution.

[deusXango]

Okay Wise, I've got a trade for you; Greg Monroe for Ryan Anderson. Greg Monroe has shown his ass, whenever he's gone home, and maybe they don't know just how inconsistent he is. He's the big man they could use to move Anthony Davis to PF, and take him out of the middle, where his game can really shine; we'd get the stretch 4 who uses his head, that'd be the perfect compliment for Drummond and Smith. WE NEED SOMEONE WHO CAN SHOOT ON OUR FRONTLINE!!! Well? What do you think Wise?

[Oracle]

THIS TEAM IS AN ENIGMA!  JUST ALL FUCKED FOR NO APPARENT REASON   

I know this won't be popular, but IMO, we've got a coaching problem!

Other teams are out thinking us way too often, because this was a wounded team, and we should have won easily!

Even getting a good shooter, which we dearly need, will only cover up the lack of organization we see on the floor!

Some of it is the players, it's not all Cheeks. They don't seem to know simple stuff that high schoolers learn about basketball, and there's way too much standing around watching stuff happen!

Now the schedule is also a problem, but this is a young team, and even if tired, most players will come alive when the competition starts!

I don't know, Wise said it really well, but I think Churchill nailed it with a bit more of what Wise said,

The Pistons are a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma and encased in a conundrum!

[WTF]

THIS TEAM IS AN ENIGMA! JUST ALL FUCKED FOR NO APPARENT REASON   

[lemonpen]

Please

[Oracle]

and he's forced to shoot an air ball!

[WTF]

WTF! Losing Rebounding Battle 25 to 13 just plain sad!

[cool breeze]

Mercury you are correct. This season is really young and I really like the current coaching staff. But you have to believe that the owners are not pleased with the team's performances at home. The schedule is hell. You expect to be flat at times on the road. But what is happening at home for this team. They are not just losing. The team is extremely dull to watch and they play with little emotion. You would think they are the road team. How can the players expect the Palace to be full some day? As the winter becomes longer and longer, will very many fans want to sit through hours of watching poorly played basketball and arrive to the game with a gut feeling that the Piston's opponent will give a better effort than their team? It is the way Piston players are playing the game that is bothering most fans not losing the game. If a team fights hard and can play as hard as the opponent there is some satisfaction and perhaps a motivation to return for another game. If some of these players want to be on the bench and watch, then coach Cheeks will need to grant them their wish. In my mind, if you are not out on the court playing as hard as you can, then it is clear that you don't really care if you are out there. I know that Knight and Middleton always gave a super effort on both ends of the floor. Affalo did the same. Charlie V, Gordon, Stuckey, and Daye couldn't give that consistent effort regardless of the fact that their shots were falling or not. Joe Dumars has shed the team of average or above average defender types in favor of the softies. The fans don't like the softies Joe. Do the owners like the softies? You might be in trouble after this season Mr. Dumars unless the fans start to embarrass the players during the games to provoke them into changing their ways. Can the fans save Joe's job by showing their disapproval of the effort given by Piston players? I think the coaching staff would welcome that.

[merc]

This is a new team... with new players... and a new coach... just starting the season... permanent conclusions are often premature.

[cool breeze]

I keep thinking of the Lions and how long they have been chumps. If Detroit could have won that snow storm game on Sunday the world would have looked at them in a new way. Instead the team folded in the 4th quarter allowing their opponent to run right through that big defensive line. That game was a real test of character. Our team quit. There is not other way to say it. They gave it away like two other recent games. The Lions are still big losers. The fans have nothing to be proud of with this group of players. Our Pistons have put on two displays of horror over the past two games as far as the fans are concerned. The way they played the last game as a team was worse than any game I saw last season. They played much like the team played 3 seasons ago when they decided to take a pass on practice at an away game in Philly. We know the players are capable of playing hard and we have seen them play hard this year but these players decide to turn it off when they feel like it instead of giving fans their money's worth for attending the games and watching them play. Did any of the players have side bets on the game last night? Do they respect each other? The only thing I can say is that these players are not listening to their coaches. Who are they listening to these days? Did the owners watch last night's game? What will they do about it????

[cool breeze]

What bothers me the most is that teams are beginning to find that the best way to beat our frontline is to attack them straight up!

They need to shut that sh!t down ASAP!

You can't let teams attack your bigs and get away with it on a regular basis, we need them to step up and make them pay for that strategy.

Moose is the biggest reason they feel they can do that.  Get a hard-nosed PF in there and everything changes!  Josh is pretty tough on SF standards and Dre is learning to be even more of a beast (he has times he looks like someone took his innocence away as he looks to the bench like he is going to tell his mommy), but Moose is a totally different story.  

Jennings is a hard-nosed PG and Stuckey a hard-nosed SG.  

Change Moose out and you have the likeliness of the 1989-90 Bad Boys!

I agree as well and wanted to give Monroe more time to adapt but he cannot concentrate hard enough to be a significant force on this team. I am disappointed with the effort of Drummond in the first half of the last two games. He allows his assigned man to out fox him almost every possession getting behind him while Drummond is standing and watching the opposing player with the basketball. You teach Jr. High players to stay with your assigned man on defense and make sure you are always between him and the basket. Our small forwards and guards are also gambling and failing to anticipate screens. At this level all the players know each other's plays and they run the same plays on offense. Why so many players are forgetting the basics is puzzling. But Monroe has trouble keeping up with other players so if he doesn't have the ability to think on the court, he will always be in trouble. The players are really tired right now. The schedule is brutal. The coaching staff needs to give the hook quicker now and not allow players to go through the motions. It is like the flu and will spread to the other players real quick.

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