Watching Lakers vs Pistons Game 6...

[Oracle]

Is riveting even thought I know the outcome!!!

Fantastic game, Zeke is a star of the First Magnitude!!!

I just hate the final score and the fact that the Pistons were denied the first leg of a 3-peat!

If you have NBATV, this is must see TV!

[Sebastian]

However, I'll shorten it a bit for you!

The website "The Wages of Win" has projected the Pistons to win 53 games!

From guessers, I would normally ignore this, but from real statistical analyzers, you have to pay a bit more attention. Full article here - The NBA Offseason List part 4: The Last Dress Rehersal

Yo, Oracle, I swear, last week when I posted my prediction of Piston wins for the upcoming season, I wanted to predict 53 wins. Instead, I posted a win total of 49.

I think that I will bump my prediction of total of wins to 52 for the '13-'14 season.

[cool breeze]

The way I see it, Jennings is a me first player much like Bynum and Stuckey. Who will have the most clout on this team next season? Smith, Monroe and Drummond I believe will dictate who plays with them. Billups is a team orientated player who will get the big men involved but he might not be able to go more than 15 to 18 minutes per game. Jennings is flashy and might be a fan favorite but maybe not popular among his teammates. Enter Siva who is a true smart point guard. He is close friends with Drummond who recognized that Peyton is a player who has the ability to set up big men and really does work at it breaking down a defense until guys like Drummond can get open. Siva is the better defender because he takes pride in his defense. Keep the big men happy coach Cheeks. That will determine how long he keeps his job. Now that Knight is gone in a foolish move by Joe Dumars, I will be pulling for Peyton Siva to get his break and show that he belongs in the rotation.

Knight was allegedly traded because he caused too many turnovers. He only played two seasons and had to endure teammates who seldom moved without the ball and with Maxiell who had no business starting as a power forward on any NBA team. This could have been Knight's 3rd season where he put it all together and has the opportunity to play with better players like Smith. Again Dumars did the dumb thing because he forgot that you cannot win with players who cannot play defense be it Jennings, Stuckey, Charlie V or Bynum. It never happens in the NBA but even after signing bogus defensive players like Charlie V and Gordon, Joe had another melt down this time because he was worried about job security. We will all suffer because Joe was looking out for himself instead of the team unless he can unload this dead weight.

[Oracle]

However, I'll shorten it a bit for you!

The website "The Wages of Win" has projected the Pistons to win 53 games!

From guessers, I would normally ignore this, but from real statistical analyzers, you have to pay a bit more attention. Full article here - The NBA Offseason List part 4: The Last Dress Rehersal

[Oracle]

"As y'all know by now, I was not a huge Brandon Knight fan. But I can't help but think the Pistons would have been better off with Burke and Knight, than with Jennings and Caldwell-Pope...all else being equal." - Murph

Murph, we probably would have had that backcourt if Joe's job wasn't on the line!

"If Cheeks is all the man I hope he is, and a worthy HOFer, he'll give Siva more than a casual look; the Bynum to Drummond lob pass is so tired, who else did he involve in his passing game?" - DX

Seriously? The man most responsible for making our franchise player close to ROY? That act is getting tired? Just how deeply are you embedded up Siva's arse  

@Seb - I agree, it's going to be real tough for Siva to get minutes! There will be 3 mofo's in street clothes, and he's likely one of them!

I do LOVE the fact that we can put talented players in streeters, because it's a sign that we're on the rise!!!

[Sebastian]

If only Knight didn't turn the ball over so damn much, I'd have loved to have seen what he and Caldwell-Pope could have done; I think they had the makings of the best defensive/long range shooting backcourt in the east. Turnovers made the difference between keeping Knight or Stuckey, IMHO. Not that it made a great deal of sense, but any excuse will do for Joe, when it comes to keeping or trading Stuckey.

A starting backcourt of anyone other than Jennings and KCP is downright foolish, and the rookie argument doesn't hold water! If Cheeks is all the man I hope he is, and a worthy HOFer, he'll give Siva more than a casual look; the Bynum to Drummond lob pass is so tired, who else did he involve in his passing game? During Summer League Siva not only gave Drummond pin-point lob passes, but he consistently hit the open man with crisp passes, and didn't turn the ball over!! Fans are blind to his potential, because he's not the ball hog they're used to seeing, trying to run things.

DX, I respect your points-of-view, but Siva will be a suit and tie guy, this season. Hopefully, he will also see some shifts in the D-League, but I doubt very seriously that he will see an NBA floor very much, when the regular season starts.  

[Go Stones!]

It is great to see you guys putting estimates together, but it is way too early for this! We don't know who plays well with what teammates, or who is on the decline and who is on the incline. There are so many factors...who is coming to camp in the best shape of their life and who is a big slacker? Who will improve just because we have a REAL coach? I like the energy, but...we haven't even seen a game yet guys! Chill out!

[Murph]

Here's my solution for a crowded front court (with minutes):

SF:    Smith (20), Singler (16), Datome (12)
PF:    Monroe (16), Smith (16),  Mitchell (16)
C:      Drummond (32),  Monroe (16)

Murph, that's a well thought out frontcourt rotation; very well balanced with exactly the players who should be included in it.

Thanks, DX.

And here's my solution for a crowded back court, although I doubt you're going to like it as well.  

PG:  Jennings (32), Billups (16)
SG:  Stuckey (24), KCP (16),  Billups (8.)

[deusXango]

Here's my solution for a crowded front court (with minutes):

SF:    Smith (20), Singler (16), Datome (12)
PF:    Monroe (16), Smith (16),  Mitchell (16)
C:      Drummond (32),  Monroe (16)

Murph, that's a well thought out frontcourt rotation; very well balanced with exactly the players who should be included in it.

[deusXango]

If only Knight didn't turn the ball over so damn much, I'd have loved to have seen what he and Caldwell-Pope could have done; I think they had the makings of the best defensive/long range shooting backcourt in the east. Turnovers made the difference between keeping Knight or Stuckey, IMHO. Not that it made a great deal of sense, but any excuse will do for Joe, when it comes to keeping or trading Stuckey.

A starting backcourt of anyone other than Jennings and KCP is downright foolish, and the rookie argument doesn't hold water! If Cheeks is all the man I hope he is, and a worthy HOFer, he'll give Siva more than a casual look; the Bynum to Drummond lob pass is so tired, who else did he involve in his passing game? During Summer League Siva not only gave Drummond pin-point lob passes, but he consistently hit the open man with crisp passes, and didn't turn the ball over!! Fans are blind to his potential, because he's not the ball hog they're used to seeing, trying to run things.

[Murph]

Here's my solution for a crowded front court (with minutes):

SF: Smith (20), Singler (16), Datome (12)
PF: Monroe (16), Smith (16), Mitchell (16)
C: Drummond (32), Monroe (16)

[Murph]

A thought occurred to me as I was reading this article - How to Make Detroit Pistons' Crowded Frontcourt Work

They postulate, and I agree that when you play the three bigs, you want to run the offense through either Monroe or Smith!

If you do that, you want guards that are 3 point shooters, i.e. guards playing off the ball! In that case Knight would have been the superior guard because he's mostly a spot up shooter, unlike Jennings.

I was thinking that Joe may have initially tried to get Knight to become a 6th man type instead of a starting PG, which is why he initially denied the early reports of a trade. Knight didn't want to do that so early in his career, and was solid that it was a non-starter for him.

It's possible that Joe wanted to try a deal that got him Jennings but kept Knight in the 6th man role, and it just didn't work for either Knight or the Bucks who needed a PG replacement for Jennings.

It's all speculation on my part, but reading that article, there will be times when knight would have been better suited offensively than Jennings, and of course he was better suited defensively in all situations.

However, the 3 bigs will likely not log that many minutes together, and in those cases Jennings is clearly the better PG option over Knight.

Anyway, the article is a good read and thought provoker! There is mention of CV & JJ, but absolutely no mention of Singler... bad omen?

As y'all know by now, I was not a huge Brandon Knight fan. But I can't help but think the Pistons would have been better off with Burke and Knight, than with Jennings and Caldwell-Pope...all else being equal.

[merc]

Thank God they found Lamar... They found him on Gilligan's Island... just smokin' crack with the Skipper... Mary Ann... and Bison Too.

[Oracle]

It's fun to play the "What if" game, and this one is really interesting as the fortunes of two franchises hang in the balance.

What if Grant Hill had stayed?


WTF did Joe do? Rookies gone WILD???

[Oracle]

Now that TMac is retired, he will undertake the job of locating Lamar Odom for Khloe!

TMac doesn't expect that to fill all of his time, simply because crack heads are pretty easy to find, especially 6'10 ones!

So shortly after that TMac will fill in for the jailed OJ Simpleton, er., OJ Simpson, and restart the search for the killers!

TMac in a local interview said that "If they can find Bin Laden, I can surely find the killers in the Simpson case"!

Good luck TMac, we only hope you can get out of the first round for a change...

[cool breeze]

YES I BELIEVE PISTON FANS HAVE LOST ANOTHER FUTURE OUTSTANDING PLAYER.

[cool breeze]

Monroe-Charlie V combination cannot work. Monroe, Charlie V, Bynum cannot work. Any of those combinations will reduce any chance of success and would change the complexion of any game in a bad way. One of the problems previous coaching staffs had was the issue of who can you trust on defense. Monroe and Charlie V were a deadly combination. A team can only afford to play one horrible defender. If you are talking about a playoff situation, then the opposing team will exploit the one poor defender until the player is chased to the bench. NBA teams are that good these days. In a series, there is much more prep time and teams are ready to pounce on any player that cannot hold his own on defense.

I read the article Oracle found about handling the issues of the front court. I have been saying the one true statement all along since Smith signed with Detroit. His gift to the Pistons will be his interior defense. He cannot shoot thee ball well from 7 feet out which was pointed out in that article. He is not qualified to play small forward in the current NBA playing style. It will be great to see a good defender in the paint playing for the Pistons for a change. We haven't had one since Rasheed left as a player. As for the spacing issue, Detroit tried the idea of running the offense through a big man last season with Monroe handling the ball a lot early in the shot clock. We had few players who were capable offensive players that could move without the basketball. We had Maxiell playing the bulk of the minutes at power forward. Smith playing power forward with Monroe at center will be a great change. This is the only combination that will work when Monroe is on the floor unless Greg has made a 100% improvement with his defensive game. Drummond is still too inexperienced to be able to make up for all of Monroe's mistakes on defense. Smith-Drummond would be a real problem for most opposing teams to score on in the paint. Smith will offer the Pistons a lot and I am looking forward to it. I really do not want any trade involving Monroe at this time. We have the advantage with 3 good big men. The offense can be run through either Monroe or Smith. The coaching staff needs to do their work in finding the right combinations to make the team look good throughout games.

One side note I thought of is if the offense is run through a big man then the trade involving Knight was a foolish trade because Knight is a good outside shooter compared to Jennings and he would be a better fit for a team running an offense through a big man. You have a better defender, bigger player and a better outside shooting guard in Brandon Knight. Most small guards are a liability on defense and hard to hide when competing in the playoffs as well. Jennings should have proven that he outclassed Knight in every area before a trade like that should have taken place. I am so tired of hearing this thing about "he is not a true point guard" when it comes to Knight. The future is going back to a two guard attack with both guards capable of bringing the ball up the court and entering the first pass to a clever big man who can create his own shot and pass the ball well. Go inside and back out with a strong shooting weak side player.

[Go Stones!]

A thought occurred to me as I was reading this article - How to Make Detroit Pistons' Crowded Frontcourt Work

Good article. What caught my attention was the survey of who the best "duo" would be. It occurred to me that Joe D/Cheeks may see that Smith/Dre are the best duo and Monroe could be the odd man out. This could lead them to trade Monroe for a better SF or SG and Josh Smith would take PF. I know some of you think Monroe is the best thing around. I tend to think that he was the best player on a bad team last year. I don't think he has the capability to being the PF of a great playoff/championship team. It could be that Joe D can upgrade PF just like he did PG. I'd go for a Monroe for Love trade in a heartbeat.

A totally separate issue is whether Smith can play SF the majority of the game or does he have to be PF in the future.

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

[Oracle]

A thought occurred to me as I was reading this article - How to Make Detroit Pistons' Crowded Frontcourt Work

They postulate, and I agree that when you play the three bigs, you want to run the offense through either Monroe or Smith!

If you do that, you want guards that are 3 point shooters, i.e. guards playing off the ball! In that case Knight would have been the superior guard because he's mostly a spot up shooter, unlike Jennings.

I was thinking that Joe may have initially tried to get Knight to become a 6th man type instead of a starting PG, which is why he initially denied the early reports of a trade. Knight didn't want to do that so early in his career, and was solid that it was a non-starter for him.

It's possible that Joe wanted to try a deal that got him Jennings but kept Knight in the 6th man role, and it just didn't work for either Knight or the Bucks who needed a PG replacement for Jennings.

It's all speculation on my part, but reading that article, there will be times when knight would have been better suited offensively than Jennings, and of course he was better suited defensively in all situations.

However, the 3 bigs will likely not log that many minutes together, and in those cases Jennings is clearly the better PG option over Knight.

Anyway, the article is a good read and thought provoker! There is mention of CV & JJ, but absolutely no mention of Singler... bad omen?

[Oracle]

A couple of sad notes

■ NBAer Lamar Odom is struggling a crack addiction, according to TMZ, which is tearing apart his marriage to Khloe Kardashian and, as of Sunday, had been missing for three days.

■ Mike Tyson: “I’m on the verge of dying because I’m a vicious alcoholic. ... I’ve been lying to everyone to who thinks I’m sober, but I’m not.”

[Oracle]

2013 Lottery team series



Posted Aug 25, 2013 5:30 PM
NBA.com's writers take a summer look at the 14 teams that did not make the playoffs last season, reviewing their offseason moves and glancing at their chances for a postseason run in 2013-14.

Eastern Conference Western Conference Washington Wizards (Aug. 12) Dallas Mavericks (Aug. 19) Detroit Pistons (Aug. 13) Minnesota Timberwolves (Aug. 20) Orlando Magic (Aug. 14) New Orleans Pelicans (Aug. 21) Philadelphia 76ers (Aug. 15) Phoenix Suns (Aug. 22) Cleveland Cavaliers (Aug. 16) Utah Jazz (Aug. 23) Toronto Raptors (Aug. 17) Portland Trail Blazers (Aug. 24) Charlotte Bobcats (Aug. 18) Sacramento Kings (Aug. 25)

 
 

[WTF]

[quote="deusXango"]Wise, that was very well stated, and exposes a very damaging past practice of our Pistons, aka, Joe Dumars.[/quote

Unfortunately DX, some fans have falling in line with Joe's thinking with the roster. I'm not saying that neither JJ or Singler are bad players, they're basically just redundant Tweeners that cannot master one position. Really I would not lose an ounce of sleep if Joe had brought back Big Ben or any combination of Macklin, or some grizzle vet along with Big Ben. I could have gave Big Ben the same dollars given to Bynum because I know I'm going to get solid play out of Ben for 10-15 minutes a game barring injury.

I like Josh Smith, I'm not oppose to Chauncey being back, I'm not bother by the pick up of Jennings these are all good things in my book and I applaud Joe for it. But there a reason why ESPN gave him a C+ for the off season moves.

There is simply no way anyone can tell me that Harrellson was the best choice. There is no way that either Singler or JJ can handle back up roles at the PF. Next season if we continue to do business as usual either both or on the 2 will likely be traded (Datome, Mitchel) because they went un-developed.

Joe can keep selling us on the idea that players were great pick ups and all that they can do and never let them play. I understand the argument being made for keeping Singler but the argument for a solid back up center and power forward is much bigger. These guys shouldn't be looked at as deal breakers or with the same reverence in which you look at a starter but that' how some fan go about it.

[WTF]

Wisefan are you working for one of the agents. It does appear to me that you do not want to have a competitive training camp this season. You have selected two player in Mitchell and Datome who have never played one minute of NBA basketball. Yet you write as if it is a fact that they are a sure thing to be impact players this season. Mitchell is a power forward or nothing this year. He can't shoot the ball well enough to get a single minute of playing time at small forward. This is good because he is potentially a good defender and rebounder. I like the blend of players Dumars is offering Cheeks this season with the exception of Bynum. - Don

Don it really doesn't matter if Mitchel can shoot the ball or not all he need to do is effectively hold down the SF position 10-15 minutes to rest Josh Smith. If all Siva and Mitchel represent is filling in roster spots then Joe should have never drafted them.

Datome is far from being a rookie he's 27 years of age and has played professionally for awhile. He was brought here to be that specialist on the perimeter. Stop acting as if we're expecting Datome an Mitchel to play starter minutes and starter roles here.

Furthermore if you're implying that Mitchel shooting is an issue with backing up Josh it would be even a bigger issue if he's coming in to backup Monroe. As I've said countless times many of you over-value players like JJ and Singler and have these love-fest with second round picks. Would anyone really find it surprising if Mitchel and Datome end up being the better choices.

Prince didn't have a lick of experience does that mean Curry was better, or Rodman shouldn't have gotten any PT because they had no prior NBA experience? Rookies play all the time so unless you're implying Joe screwed up his pick and should have drafted other players, both Datome and Mitchel are very capable of filling in 10-15a night.

[cool breeze]

I suppose where I might be reluctant to embrace the make up the roster is rooted in somehow in my reluctance to let go of an era where I think the best NBA Basketball was played ever (The 80's).   The game wasn't overly analyzed and free of trending fades and dreamy idea o notions of what if.

Only in basketball has the disruption of traditional team roster makeup is allowed, unlike with football and baseball a team know it going to a carry a number players at a certain position.  You want find a football team carrying 5 QB's and 8 Kickers or a baseball team with 9 catchers.  More importantly you won't see a QB playing CB or a pitcher playing SS but basketball tend to fall in love with the abundance of under talented tweeners and proceed to construct a team and coach teams in the manner of playing a PS3 game.   It's too much of a freaking guessing game and a lot of the un-certainty comes because how the game is approached.

I remember the days of consistent 10 man rotations and sometimes just 9, there was no guess work who got the bulk of minutes.  You typically had your starting 5 and 5 backups and you knew there was always going to be 2 o 3 players who would only see garbage minutes at best.    

I strongly believe in 3 guard rotations and the merits of having 1 backup at SF and having a viable backup at center and power forward.   I'm not opposes to having that freak of nature player ala Worm, or that specialist ala Rice or Horry but what I do oppose is having a roster full of Combo Guards and Tweener Forwards which IMO we have far to many of at the moment.  

I'm not against competing players fighting for roster spots, just that you can still get that with a more balanced make up of the roster going into camp,  I just think it crazy to carry 6 guards, and 5 tweener SF into training camp when there's only 2 PF and 2 centers on the roster.  I think it eliminates all the guessing a coaching staff has to do, and the rotation is better managed.  I see nothing wrong with going to camp with perhaps 5 guards and 3 SF while adding another center and 2 more PF.   As I see it Mitchel is that freak of nature player and Datome is that specialist  Not really sure that we need to hold onto a couple of tweeners in JJ and Singler at the expense of properly balancing the roster before training camp.  

It's easy to figure out what 5 guards (Jennings, Billups, Stuckey, KCP ad Siva at this point needs to be on the team and it easy to figure out what 3 or 4 should be getting the of PT.  Now it just a matter of how you rotate the 3 or 4 players.  The same with the small forward spot, you have a starter in Smith who plays well on both ends, now you limit your option of his backups to Mitchel an energy guy and Datome and 3pt Specialist, so why confuse things with having 2 tweeners. We already know Smiths getting 30 plus minutes at the SF and that the situations are either going to be bringing in Datome for his shooting or Mitchel to continue were Smith left off.  

Now unless Charlie steps his game up and Harrellson is a lot better than he is then we need players at the PF and center that can effectively come in behind Drummond and Monroe.  My fellow fans I assure you that neither of the Tweeners (Singler and JJ fit that bill) I would much rather have Maxiell back in that capacity of backup PF and C.

IMO not does balancing out the roster properly now makes the coaching part easier, it also promotes the development of young player which many has complained about in the past.    

Wisefan are you working for one of the agents. It does appear to me that you do not want to have a competitive training camp this season. You have selected two player in Mitchell and Datome who have never played one minute of NBA basketball. Yet you write as if it is a fact that they are a sure thing to be impact players this season. Mitchell is a power forward or nothing this year. He can't shoot the ball well enough to get a single minute of playing time at small forward. This is good because he is potentially a good defender and rebounder. I like the blend of players Dumars is offering Cheeks this season with the exception of Bynum.

[deusXango]

Wise, that was very well stated, and exposes a very damaging past practice of our Pistons, aka, Joe Dumars.

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