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Off Season Grades

Post  Oracle on Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:44 pm

Murph wrote:Coaching Hire: C+  Let's hope for the best. - IMO, this will be critical! The performance of the team will be directly proportional to how good the coach is!

Free Agent Signings:  A+     Josh Smith is the best FA the Pistons could have signed.  He adds size, toughness, rebounding and offense.  If Smith can mesh with the starting line-up as a SF, the Pistons are going to have a formidable front court. - Oh Yeah, Joe is BACK!!!

Draft: C    Not taking Burke will prove to be a huge mistake.  But Mitchell and Siva were great pick-ups, especially considering where they were drafted. - Too early to call! IMO, Burke is going to be better than KCP, but it's more about fit, and that's something that will take time to see!

Over-all Grade:   B+   IMO, the Josh Smith signing more than makes up for the mediocre coach and passing on Burke. - I agree, I really thought we had no chance of getting Smith!
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Player, player.

Post  deusXango on Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:06 pm

Whadda 'ya think about offering Gerald Henderson a two year contract, for insurance purposes, and his shooting and athleticism? It's time to cut bait with English, and see what we can get for Stuckey and Jerebko; hopefully we can get a promising 2014 draft pick for those two guys.

The resigning of Bynum not only locks Knight into our starting PG, it makes Stuckey obsolete also. I know that Stuckey's supporters will take issue with this, but facts are facts; Siva is not the scorer that Stuckey is, but neither is he the ball hog he is, and his decision making with the ball more than makes up for the difference in points on the board. Knight, Bynum, and Siva should be our PG's this year, and I believe the team will be just fine with them.

If we must live life without Rondo, our big man unit won't be something to be ashamed of; Drummond, Smith, Mitchell, and yes, Monroe will be something to see, and well worth the trip out to the Palace on a cold January night. Considering the combination of size, intelligence, skill, and athleticism of this group, Knight, with his evolving skillset, will be able to showcase what his real game is about on the professional level. Everyone from top to bottom has something to prove, and this is the year to prove it! The SF who's not a SF, but a PF who hasn't made an All-Star game, should make his first All-Star team as a SF, along with his team mate who "can't" play PF! My pre-season candidate for Most Improved Player this season is Andre Drummond, and look for Knight to enter the rare air of being in the top 10 in assists this year.

"Stretch the floor." I've read that mantra so much that my head is spinning whenever a 3 point shot is mentioned; Middleton, Knight, Singler, KCP, and CV will stretch the floor, but I expect that we'll be more of a fast break team, with the interior defense we'll be playing; we've got some big men who can get out on the break, who only the suicidal will try to stop. Stretch the floor? How about running the floor!? It's easily done when there are no ball hogs gumming up the works.
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Off Season Grades

Post  Murph on Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:58 pm

Coaching Hire:           C+  Let's hope for the best.

Free Agent Signings:  A+     Josh Smith is the best FA the Pistons could have signed.  He adds size, toughness, rebounding and offense.  If Smith can mesh with the starting line-up as a SF, the Pistons are going to have a formidable front court.

Draft:                     C    Not taking Burke will prove to be a huge mistake.  But Mitchell and Siva were great pick-ups, especially considering where they were drafted.

Over-all Grade:         B+   IMO, the Josh Smith signing more than makes up for the mediocre coach and passing on Burke.
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Willy B

Post  merc on Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:33 am

2 years for 5.75 Mil
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Summer league game

Post  cool breeze on Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:40 pm

KCP:
It is easy to talk the talk but when it gets down to actually playing against competition in real games, players and fans come to the realization that you just don't plug a high draft selection into a starting job. That is what some people were doing and I was laughing out loud knowing that KCP might be athletic but he is not a NBA starter. Has he earned a starting job in the summer league? No way! Is he better than Kyle Singler's brother? Singler was a key player on a really good Oregon team last season. Nobody gives him a look but I thought he played smarter than KCP. And he shot the ball better. I am not saying that Singler should make the team but the real truth right now is that Middleton and English are so much further ahead of KCP it is not funny. One thing about KCP I liked was his quickness especially recovering from mistakes on defense. I recall watching Joe Dumars in his rookie training camp. I had the privilege to attend a lot of the practices in those days. Dumars didn't stand out at all at first and I wondered a bit about that pick by the Pistons at the time. But in a short time, Dumars really caught on with the speed of the game and figured things out within about 3 weeks. By that time, I thought he had been playing in the league for several years. So KCP might be that kind of player. He had a horrible outing yesterday. Let's see what happens by the end of these summer games.

Siva:
The guy I liked in this last game was Siva and he struggled as well. Still Siva had the ball in his hands a lot and showed how crafty and patient he is on offense and this guy can play defense so much better than Will Bynum it is crazy to think that Dumars would give Bynum a new contract. Defensive breakdowns by guards with the exception of Knight and Singler cost the team several wins last year. And Bynum led the way with Daye on being guilty of bonehead defensive lapses. Defense was the reason why Bynum had to transfer from U of Arizona. Lute Olson couldn't get Bynum to concentrate more than 5 seconds on defense so he went to the bench. Siva will have to do something special now to even make this team which makes me ill. But I know that Joe Dumars was really worried that all of the other NBA teams were ready to offer Will a new contract so he had to act fast. My only hope is that Dumars will try to package him in a trade. When will Dumars start watching the games during the regular season?

Mitchell:
He showed some toughness in this game. I was impressed at times. He is a player and just needs time to figure things out. This appears to be a good pick.

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Stuff & Things

Post  deusXango on Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:12 pm

Stones, you took the fight right out of me when you compared Moose to Okafer; I mean, damn man, that hurt! On top of that, you made Monroe going to the basket sound just like Stuckey going to the hole. Anyway to the points that you made and as I remember things to be; Grant Hill was done with Detroit and we received Ben Wallace in a very generous sign and trade (Hill had that broken ankle that wasn't thought to be that bad, at the time, much like Rondo's ACL is being minimized now), and had no idea that he'd blow up like he did. Stackhouse was never a team player and no matter how many times that spin move to split defenders was unsuccessful, he always tried it again. Rip was a team player who wasn't in an environment where team play was appreciated. No matter how much Stack scored during the regular season, his scoring ALWAYS went down in the playoffs; it was just the opposite with Hamilton, who I believe is the Pistons leading scorer in the playoffs. Dantley had left his best game in Utah, and was a shadow of his true self when we got him; I remember him wiping his brow, rubbing the ball, before bounce, bounce, bounce, to back his man down, while eating up the shot clock, before passing the ball back out for a rushed shot. Just like he dominated the shot clock, he demanded to eat up the time at SF, thus keeping Rodman on the bench longer than the team needed him there; Aguirre was the answer to that dilemma. He was younger, a better passer, managed the shot clock better than Dantley did, and most importantly, allowed the Worm to get the PT that help put us over the top. Worm wasn't playing and Dumars wasn't getting his shots (who was the '89 MVP). None of those players you mentioned were as young as Monroe.

Lemon, you made your usual unshakable point, or in this case, counterpoint by stating precise facts. All the pros you mentioned clearly outweigh the cons, but the fact remains, how severe is the ACL? Rondo is quite a talent and All-Star caliber player, there's no denying that, but would he an asset or liability to the developing character of our young team? Would he want to be a part of the team or apart from the team? My problem is not with what I've seen on the floor, but what's been reported to taking place in his head, which none of can see, until maybe, it's too late.

Merc, was any indication given about Siva's fate should "the Thrill" resign with us? I was hoping that we backed Atlanta up against the wall, by extending an offer to Monta Ellis, but I can very easily live with bringing Bynum back, and leaving Ellis alone. Two out of three ain't bad, and KCP and Mitchell is showing me something; I wish we could drop Stuckey on someone for a future draft pick, and keep Siva.

WELCOME BACK HOME 'SHEED!!!
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Brandon Knight's interview in the Detroit News today shows this guy is the real deal

Post  cool breeze on Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:12 pm

How can anyone not like Brandon Knight? It amazes me that there are so many fans who question the idea that Knight will be a good point guard on this Piston team. And today he gave us a sample of how he thinks and what he believes he is capable of doing on the floor. This guy has got it like few others in modern day basketball. It is like taking a step back into the old days relating to how good players viewed things involving basketball. Knight is a worker and he is smart. That puts him way ahead of a lot of players in the league. He has goals and he knows his weaknesses and works on those weaknesses. Knight will be a top tier player and then he might leave this team because he has experienced so much negative talk from Detroit fans. Instead of actually understanding where the real weaknesses were in the team over the past two seasons, fans get caught up on the point guard position. It didn't matter that Maxiell screwed up the offense and the skill shooters couldn't shoot and the big men couldn't defend and players didn't get to open spots on the floor or move without the ball with purpose. Did anyone say, give me the rock? A point guard needs someone who believes they can make an impact on offense. Joe Dumars please do not listen to the Piston fans who want to trade Knight say for the injured Rondo.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:01 pm

merc wrote:Bynum has been offered a contract by the Pistons... no details yet

Damn it all! Dumars is not serious about creating a winning team after all. Will the other shoe drop now with a notice that Maxiell will be given a contract as well? What this means is we have added a small shooting guard who likes to dominate the basketball on offense and cannot defend anyone in the league.

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Willy B

Post  merc on Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm

Bynum has been offered a contract by the Pistons... no details yet
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Finally, a voice of reason - Counterpoint

Post  lemonpen on Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:22 pm

deusXango wrote:Oracle, I appreciate you for your open-minded and unbiased response to tearing up a core, before it's had a chance to jell and fail, and sitting back to watch the process of rebuilding development take place. When I look at these young men, I'm not looking forward to the ECF this year, but I'm looking down a road of 2-3 years when we begin another era long run of dominance.

What will Knight look like in 3 years? How sweet will Monroe's game have become in 3 years? How unbelievably dominant will Drummond have become by then? What will Mitchell, Middleton, and KCP have developed into by then? These guys seem to genuinely like each other and all they need is the element of time (which is on their side) to develop into the type team that the impatient wants to see NOW, sans the diva like, and moody attitudes; you can be great and humble also. Again, thanks for allowing me to get "a hold of myself" brother, I appreciate you Oracle.

For the purpose of enhancing the discussion allow me to play Devils Advocate.

Should we go after Rondo.   Man that is a tough one that I think has to have some options we would agree to even if key youngsters are included.  First, Rondo is young and uber productive.  Second, you gotta ask would his addition somewhere else have a long term effect of keeping us down.  Obviously Boston won’t be outplaying us anytime soon but if Indiana for instance added Rondo our mission becomes tougher for a long freakin time.

Rondo Cons:
Crappy FT shooter at 60%.  But he only takes 3.5 per game.
Crappy 3pt shooter at 23%.  But he takes less than 1 per game.
Not a big scorer @ 11-13 per game.
Utterences of lockerroom division.

Pros:
Spectacular assist guy @ 11 per gm and 3:1 Assists to TO's.
Shoots above 48% when inside the arc.
Averages 37 min per gm.
Averages almost 5 Rebounds per gm
Averages almost 2 steals per gm.
Generally speaking his numbers rise in the playoffs.
2011-12:  10 triple doubles & 35 double doubles in 53 games
2012-13:  5 triple doubles & 20 double doubles in 38 games
He is 27 yrs old.
He is arguably the best defensive guard in the Association.

Rondo is not your average DCUZ malcontent who comes to play sometimes.  
I would consider having him even if we had to suffer one season while waiting to backfill a hole his addition may create.
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Monroe...

Post  Go Stones! on Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:36 pm

Ok, b/c Moose was the most consistent player, it doesn't mean he isn't Grant Hill, Jerry Stackhouse, Dantley, etc who needs to be traded while his stock is high so we can get someone who is a better fit. Hill got us Wallace. Stack got us Rip. Dantley got us McGuire. I just don't want to be too attached to anyone...and it being like losing a family member when they leave. Who knows if Moose would stay either!?!!

I'm concerned he is the next coming of Omeka Okafer. Good numbers, but not a winner. I'm sure there are other PF/Cs who would compare too. When Moose goes to the basket down low, how many times did you hear "AHHH!" and either a block or a flop with ZERO net points afterwards? Doesn't mean he won't be better in the future, but I think there is some question, if all are honest, to if Moose is the dominant PF that we would see on a championship team.

Point well taken about Rondo. I just would like to see a better fit and if we can trade for a better position player than we need to pounce while his stock is high.

Can we at least agree to disagree? We are all gentlemen, right?
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Finally, a voice of reason

Post  deusXango on Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:13 am

Oracle, I appreciate you for your open-minded and unbiased response to tearing up a core, before it's had a chance to jell and fail, and sitting back to watch the process of rebuilding development take place. When I look at these young men, I'm not looking forward to the ECF this year, but I'm looking down a road of 2-3 years when we begin another era long run of dominance.

What will Knight look like in 3 years? How sweet will Monroe's game have become in 3 years? How unbelievably dominant will Drummond have become by then? What will Mitchell, Middleton, and KCP have developed into by then? These guys seem to genuinely like each other and all they need is the element of time (which is on their side) to develop into the type team that the impatient wants to see NOW, sans the diva like, and moody attitudes; you can be great and humble also. Again, thanks for allowing me to get "a hold of myself" brother, I appreciate you Oracle.
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Siva or Bynum

Post  Oracle on Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:03 am

Why not both!

I've already seen enough of Siva to know that he's a solid pure PG! Yeah, I wish he had BK7's size, but he doesn't need it to be effective off the bench, and I could see him getting good minutes!

He's the next best thing to cleaning up missing out on Burke, because like it or not, IMO Burke is really where ne needs to be for his career to take off, and KCP has the potential to be better for our team.

But back to Siva. He has work to do and adjustments to make, but he's steady, not flashy, and is deceptive, like Burke, in getting anywhere he wants to! I like this kid!

Siva is the anti-Bynum, but you still want that explosive guy off the bench that Bynum has become. He doesn't need to be Nate Robinson, Will Bynum is sufficient and deadly at times!

There's nothing wrong with Bynum! The complaints should be cast at the coach for using him in situations where his skill set doesn't work, and I think a guard like Cheeks will know a lot more that Frank did!

Siva would provide the steady PG influence with Bynum playing the wild man role!

I'm not stuck on Bynum if we can do better, but he does know our team and he has a GREAT relationship with both Drummond & Slava in the pick and roll!
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Hear my cry, feel my pain

Post  Oracle on Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:42 am

I generally don't like to feel ANYTHING on another dude Smile, but in this case, I do feel your pain!

IMO, we have all the pieces to make the playoffs now, but to be honest, youth can be flakey, so that's where the fear comes in for those that want to trade Moose & Knight!

They fear Knight more than Moose simply because they either don't want to endure the learning curve, or don't understand the development process.

IMO, Knight's curve should be mostly complete, i.e. getting solidified and ready for steady NBA growth in his 4th year! In fact, basically following the path Moose is on, and that means that he should show good progress this season, and will under Cheeks!

However, we do need some veteran PG influence on the team, it just isn't Rondo at the expense of either Knight, Monroe or both, that's future suicide! You don't trade two promising pieces for a broke down malcontent, even one as good as Rondo!

Now if you can get this done with Stuckey, CV and chump change(English), then I would do it and pray that Rondo doesn't screw up the locker room, but that's as far as I would be willing to go!

We've got about 8M smackers left and I think the MLE, and trade bait, so we have a lot of room to get effective veteran help if Joe moves quickly!

I get it, Rondo would guarantee a lot more than just making the playoffs, but he's not the only one that does that, and even if we got him, challenging for it all wouldn't happen for 2-3 years anyway!!

So if we're patient, in that same time period, Moose will blow up, Knight will have matured into the guard we need, Middleton will be the new RIP, coming off of screens and being automatic, and Drummond will finally shoot 50% FT's and have a baby hook! All while Josh Smith is only 29!

I can be patient when we're making the playoffs, and we're already there, so let's relax and see the championship team develop!
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Burke, KCP & MCW

Post  Oracle on Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:14 am

Well the results are clear!

Burke sucked the worst, followed by KCP, while MCW scored 26 points and had a near triple double!

So what does it all mean? Not a damn thing!

MCW did good in the final analysis, but he really had an ugly game, mostly because his team was full of scrubs! Still he looked great, but it's just one game!

Burke just plain stunk up the joint stat wise, but he looked decent! Burke would have done a lot better if his team was in danger of losing, but they weren't! We all know he does whatever is needed, but for those that don't know him, they'll take this all wrong! Burke will right his ship and Utah will be really happy about that pick!

KCP sucked as well, but not quite as bad as Burke! While KCP was missing, he was doing things athletically that I don't think people expected! Defensively he was pretty good, but like Burke, the offensive game stood out like a sore thumb!

In general nerves, and it being the first nba level game contributed to poor performances, and we'll have to see how they recover!
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FORUM

Post  deusXango on Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:36 am

Please, please, please let's stop with the trade Monroe for Rondo sh!t. An awesome 7' talent, with help all around him, young and undamaged, to be traded for a trice broken (an ACL most recently), malcontent of a PG? All this speculation and these loony trade scenarios for a player who's yet to play with his new team mates, under his new coach, in a new role; WTF was his crime against Pistons fandom? I had no idea that I was surrounded by so many assholes, who say they have the teams best interest at heart, but in reality, they're just gullible for dumb sounding sh!t.

You want radical change? You want a dynamic PG with issues? You want talent that you can claim to be better than Knight as a guard? Try Monta Ellis. He at least ain't broken and will be available opening night; cheaper too. All these trade scenarios for Rondo, you'd think we were talking about J-Will, or Jrue Holiday, at least one of the top PG's in the league, but it's only Rondo, because it's rumored that Boston doesn't want him. When Vasquez was open for trade, why wasn't there the same amount of talk about trading for him? Oh, I see; Monroe would have been overkill in a trade. Stupid ass mofo's!!

It's not that I don't care what anyone thinks of me (that's not the case), but those are your feeling, do what you want to do with them!! I'm a fan and I want to enjoy what we have, and I'm loyal to those who labored to bring us to this point, and I'm not talking about those who were mistakenly held in high favor, but performed half-assed.
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Re: FORUM

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