Fresh Pickings...

[Oracle]

1. If you get a chance, go to NBA.com and look at "The Best Ever Point Guards" and see the video on Zeke! WOW!!! Zeke was absolutely amazing! At his height, he could play above the rim, was the master of almost every shooting technique and blessed with great court vision and speed! I know all of this, and the video was still impressive! BTW, there are other great guards in the series, but only about 5 of them are in Zeke's category!

2. IMO, it is very important to get KCP starting ASAP, and BTW, Seb, that was a GREAT post you did about KCP & Stuckey. KCP is really the only player on this team with the size and potentially the defensive capability to guard the better SG's. He's going to be critical for us when we face teams like Indiana, NJ & Miami to mention a few who have great SG's.

3. From the article "NBA Players With Bright Futures", here is the quote on Jennings,

"Brandon Jennings: Sometimes all a player needs to take the next step is a change of scenery. Jennings has butted heads with the last few coaches he had in Milwaukee and getting to play for a legendary point guard in Mo Cheeks will help. Throw into the mix he’ll have Greg Monroe, Josh Smith and Andre Drummond to throw lobs to, and it’s expected his scoring burden will lesson while his assist totals will rise." - NBA Players With Bright Futures

4. Finally, Rant Sports opinion is that Joe won't be fired even if the Pistons stumble! I have to agree with that because Joe's done enough to keep his job barring a complete collapse, and all of the pieces are in place for a bright future with smaller tweaks rather than a big overhaul!

[Oracle]

For those that missed it, here is the speech!

[Sebastian]

Has anyone watched Michael's speech. You get a good insight into this man although he might have been a bit intoxicated at the time. John Stockton and Jerry Sloan spoke first on that day and both spoke from the heart and everyone was moved. When it was Michael's turn, he started by saying that the price of the tickets to the ceremony had gone up to $1,000.00 per ticket and he had been forced to pay this fee for his family members. There were about 7 individual family members and the camera showed them squirming in their seats feeling very uncomfortable with Jordan's statements. Everyone knew that Michael was the richest person in the place but he made it appear that buying those tickets for his family was a hardship. He seemed to be a real bitter person and while he might have been trying to be funny with some of his comments, it didn't settle well with the audience who did not really respond with any laughs. Jordan mentioned several moments in his life where people slighted him in some way. This was the theme of his speech. He would mention a situation where someone screwed him over and that made him play at a higher level. He even brought up the All Star game where he accused Zeke of being behind shutting him out in that game. This guy really holds a grudge as Isiah found out when he was not selected for the Olympic team.  I couldn't help thinking about Joe Dumars and the way he sucked up to Jordan after retirement. Jordan hated the Detroit Pistons. Dumars went to Michael for advise on who to pick in the draft, Rodney White or Joe Johnson. The press reported that Jordan told Joe to pick Rodney. And the rest is history. I am sure that there would be no way that Mr. Thomas would have believed a word that came out of MJs mouth. A friend of mine played a round of golf with Jimmy Connors and Michael once. He felt very uncomfortable for the entire round. Jimmy and Michael were betting big money on every hole and Connors was cleaning out all the cash in MJs golf bag which held thousands of dollars. My friend came away feeling that MJ might be a great basketball player, but is not the kind of person who is kind when nobody is looking. I sure didn't think he made his family proud with that speech during his induction ceremony. Yet Steve Kerr was his teammate and really likes him. Maybe he would like to have those moments over again to prepare a better speech.

You're right Cool, Jordan spoke rather harshly of everyone noted in his speech, but David Thompson, his HOF introducer and still the best player in the history of ACC Basketball, who was known as "Skywalker" who had some crazy ABA/NBA nights with the Nuggets, before that Candy Girl got a hold of him; and his former Tarheel Head Coach, the great Dean Smith.

But, everyone else Jordan just sliced and diced them.

[cool breeze]

Has anyone watched Michael's speech. You get a good insight into this man although he might have been a bit intoxicated at the time. John Stockton and Jerry Sloan spoke first on that day and both spoke from the heart and everyone was moved. When it was Michael's turn, he started by saying that the price of the tickets to the ceremony had gone up to $1,000.00 per ticket and he had been forced to pay this fee for his family members. There were about 7 individual family members and the camera showed them squirming in their seats feeling very uncomfortable with Jordan's statements. Everyone knew that Michael was the richest person in the place but he made it appear that buying those tickets for his family was a hardship. He seemed to be a real bitter person and while he might have been trying to be funny with some of his comments, it didn't settle well with the audience who did not really respond with any laughs. Jordan mentioned several moments in his life where people slighted him in some way. This was the theme of his speech. He would mention a situation where someone screwed him over and that made him play at a higher level. He even brought up the All Star game where he accused Zeke of being behind shutting him out in that game. This guy really holds a grudge as Isiah found out when he was not selected for the Olympic team. I couldn't help thinking about Joe Dumars and the way he sucked up to Jordan after retirement. Jordan hated the Detroit Pistons. Dumars went to Michael for advise on who to pick in the draft, Rodney White or Joe Johnson. The press reported that Jordan told Joe to pick Rodney. And the rest is history. I am sure that there would be no way that Mr. Thomas would have believed a word that came out of MJs mouth. A friend of mine played a round of golf with Jimmy Connors and Michael once. He felt very uncomfortable for the entire round. Jimmy and Michael were betting big money on every hole and Connors was cleaning out all the cash in MJs golf bag which held thousands of dollars. My friend came away feeling that MJ might be a great basketball player, but is not the kind of person who is kind when nobody is looking. I sure didn't think he made his family proud with that speech during his induction ceremony. Yet Steve Kerr was his teammate and really likes him. Maybe he would like to have those moments over again to prepare a better speech.

[cool breeze]

WILL CHEEKS BE FIRED BEFORE TRAINING CAMP? What happened in Birmingham? Reporters get to work and bring us this story. I don't care is it is true just be creative. Did the dispute involve pushing and shoving? Did this in any way involve Charlie V or Rodney Stuckey? Don't forget that Charlie is a boxer and still wants a match with Kevin Garnett. I am sure this event had nothing to do with drugs or alcohol. Was Joe there?????????

I know you're joking, but this Cheeks thing could be really bad, and if there's nothing going on, then why won't the Pistons & Cheeks come clean with a full disclosure?

They won't because there is something going on and their first response is to deny, deny, deny, just like the advice given to cheating spouses
,
When will they learn that the cover up can be worse than the crime at times?

Yes that post was a joke Oracle. However, I believe that everything is fair game if our new head coach tells the press that he expects Rodney Stuckey to be the team leader this season. It seems that Cheeks is a political guy for sure. He knows that 4 previous coaching staffs have been fired by Joe Dumars because of one issue. Those coaching staffs couldn't get along with Rodney Stuckey or those coaching staffs realized that Stuckey was not good enough to start and sometimes even be in the rotation. When a coaching staff states that they are playing guys who they trust because their jobs on the line and Stuckey is not part of their vision for a successful team, that means they don't trust Stuckey. But Joe Dumars does love and trust Stuckey which has now become a Mother-Son thing. And some fans are forgetting about the past now and believe all those coaches were wrong. Cheeks wants to keep his job so he will make Stuckey the team leader and if you are the team leader, there is no way he can send Rodney to the bench. So good luck Piston fans. Stuckey is a lock no matter how badly he performs. Where are the owners? Do you want the seats to remain empty again?

[cool breeze]

 I respectfully disagree Lemonpen. It will be impossible for Detroit to be competitive with the stronger teams because of the lack of guard defenders on this team. Bynum, Jennings, Stuckey and Billups will not scare any other starting guard in the NBA. The only chance we have to make this 4th seed happen is for some type of trade to happen. Or perhaps Billups can pull off a miracle and play the entire season at a high level without suffering from any injuries. And there is the potential for hope if Pope can actually fit in the system and become an effective 2 way player. I see no hope of Detroit doing much with Bynum, Stuckey, or Jennings against solid teams. Singler can play great defense. Perhaps he could be a special player who can fill two positions off the bench at times. Jennings is capable of winning some games by himself but quality teams have good game plans and know how to limit Jennings on offense and exploit him when he is on defense.

I don't know Breeze, there are a lot of playoff teams that start one decent defensive guard and one really good offensive guard.  Spurs, Nuggets, Warroriors for instance.  Shouldn't we consider the total picture.  Plenty of guys more than offset so-so D with offense.  
Dude you gotta quit overstating Singlers game.  Last year he was decent .......... consdering his surroundings.  This season the bar is higher.   I hope the kid is up to it.

I was only thinking about options Lemonpen. Singler can stop dribble penetration. KCP might be capable as well. Stuckey, Bynum and Jennings have not been interested in doing that so far in their careers. How do you play two of them at the same time and expect to stay in many games? Something Joe didn't think through perhaps?

[cool breeze]

"True story I threw the contents of a libby's fruit cup at my girlfriend once and my house was surrounded by police I guess I could have put her eye out with some peaches." - Wise

Well, one thing for sure, you certainly won't be the most objective person to follow the case of the Cheeks mysterious arse whooping tapes 

When I read that, I thought of Tombstone, the movie, and the line below.

Thanks for that Oracle! You have bought back my hero, Doc Holiday. They actually used to have a 35 mile trail run where you had to run up two mountains as part of the race. One half mile of that race featured the steepest incline of any race in the world. It was almost like mountain climbing. I did it twice and one time had to endure in a blizzard where my wife was able to move on top of the snow while my legs sunk in over 2 feet in places. If you make it 34 miles you will enter a cemetery where Doc was buried. There is a pretty girl waiting for you who hands out a rose. You throw it on Docs grave and give him proper respect before running the last mile to the finish into a park in Glenwood Springs, Col. This was one of the most challenging races of all time for me and the most beautiful. I am sure Charlie V couldn't do a mile of it.

[lemonpen]

I respectfully disagree Lemonpen. It will be impossible for Detroit to be competitive with the stronger teams because of the lack of guard defenders on this team. Bynum, Jennings, Stuckey and Billups will not scare any other starting guard in the NBA. The only chance we have to make this 4th seed happen is for some type of trade to happen. Or perhaps Billups can pull off a miracle and play the entire season at a high level without suffering from any injuries. And there is the potential for hope if Pope can actually fit in the system and become an effective 2 way player. I see no hope of Detroit doing much with Bynum, Stuckey, or Jennings against solid teams. Singler can play great defense. Perhaps he could be a special player who can fill two positions off the bench at times. Jennings is capable of winning some games by himself but quality teams have good game plans and know how to limit Jennings on offense and exploit him when he is on defense.

I don't know Breeze, there are a lot of playoff teams that start one decent defensive guard and one really good offensive guard. Spurs, Nuggets, Warroriors for instance. Shouldn't we consider the total picture. Plenty of guys more than offset so-so D with offense.
Dude you gotta quit overstating Singlers game. Last year he was decent .......... consdering his surroundings. This season the bar is higher. I hope the kid is up to it.

[Murph]

Man...it must be a slow news cycle in the NBA, if a story like this Cheeks non-event lingers in the news for a week.  Geesh.  

Isn't there anything more interesting to talk about, like Josh Harrellson's favorite football team?  

[Oracle]

"True story I threw the contents of a libby's fruit cup at my girlfriend once and my house was surrounded by police I guess I could have put her eye out with some peaches." - Wise

Well, one thing for sure, you certainly won't be the most objective person to follow the case of the Cheeks mysterious arse whooping tapes 

When I read that, I thought of Tombstone, the movie, and the line below.

[WTF]

I would like to think that he's not a closet abuser, believe me if he had punched, kick, slapped or choke someone he wouldn't have been just simply questioned and released especially in Oakland County. This all public record or easily found out information, was an EMS called? Was he fingered printed, and mugged shot? Not true while an investigation is on going.

First EMS records aren't top secret, neither is hospital admissions the information only cease at after that. These are at least 2 items easily assessable to the media. Neither has anything to do with what the police my conceal in their pending investigation. Again the police said he was questioned and released, so again I stress not charged and released on bond which would have likely occurred if something serious had happen.

Now I could assume the worst and say the only way any of this would require being investigated is if it involves a child and I really hope not. Not much to investigate knocking someone upside the head.

[WTF]

DAMN MEDIA!

Here it is this guys has been by all indication a solid citizen in and out of his NBA surrounding.  I can't ever recall this guy ever having his character placed in doubt.   The dumbass media needs to stop writing on or bout this matter unless that have something to right about.  Right now these fucks keep writing the same nothing with a different headline attached.
I would like to think that he's not a closet abuser,  believe me if he had punched, kick, slapped or choke someone he wouldn't have been just simply questioned and released especially in Oakland County.  This all public record or easily found out information, was an EMS called?  Was he fingered printed, and mugged shot? Not true while an investigation is on going.

While I don't advocate a man putting his hands on a woman, how often does these incident get over blown by some dramatic female?  Yes this need to be taken seriously when it's actually is "However" this is obviously not because he's not out on bond, there are no restraining orders.  Everyone writing on this as news without any facts is retarded - All I have seen is facts.

While the media has been bad in some situations, in this one, it appears that you may be the one blowing this out of proportion.

All of the articles I've read on the subject have stuck to the FACTS only! I haven't read one article that says anything other than Cheeks is a solid citizen and deserves the benefit of the doubt.

So if you're reading differently, you need to show some proof of more than one media outlet of any repute that's saying these things.

With that out of the way, the incident isn't the news, it's the reaction that's generating all of the speculation!

For a NOTHING incident, they sure seem to have bent over backwards to hide whatever happened!

The logical response would have been(at least from the Pistons), "We would like to comment, but while there is an investigation, we will have to decline".

However, it seems difficult to investigate a "Nothing" incident, so there is at least something there, and it needs to be aired!

How is it that Cheeks, who should be on top of the world with a new job and a great team, getting involved in this stuff? Something is wrong here, even if we never know what it is, something is wrong.

I say this as a person that could give a flying crap about our coaches private life, and I will support him as long as it isn't too serious, and this doesn't appear to rise to that level.

In short I don't care about the incident, but I'm concerned about the way both Cheeks & mostly, the Pistons are handling this. It's a bad way to get this relationship started, and more PR bungling by the Pistons IMO!

Just how and where did I blow this out of proportion, all I'm saying is the media need to stop report on it unless that have something. It doesn't matter if they're (media) writing how great he is the headline often implies a certain assumption. All I'm is if you don't have anything then stop writing about it. It's been over a week and nothing has changed no new information has been given. no new updates

[WTF]

If it's not true then why dignify it with a response. Also Oakland County passing up the opportunity to lock up an Afro-American  never would happen I don't care how famous they might be or who they work for.

Cheeks doesn't owe anyone a response and to a degree not even the Pistons unless he's been charged or being charged with something criminal.

Really imagine Cheeks whipped his wife ass he would be fired on the spot if he's not already locked up. The media knows there's nothing to this story, but they'll milk it as much as they can until it goes away. The organization would be dumb to know something and not act on it immediately.

Maybe he just cursed her out, hmmm that's abuse, maybe he looked threatening hmmm that's abuse as well. Don't believe me just tell some woman to "shut her bleeping yapper before you close it" yeah dumb comments like this can be translated into a threat of death. Especially if this is coming from some over dramatic angry woman.

True story I threw the contents of a libby's fruit cup at my girlfriend once and my house was surrounded by police I guess I could have put her eye out with some peaches. More funny she was married once and he husband put 2 of her teeth her jaw and it took 20 years for her to leave him. I toss a cup of fruit cocktail and almost get tasered WTF

Now imagine how embarrassed I was so why in the hell would Cheeks need to say anything?

[Oracle]

DAMN MEDIA!

Here it is this guys has been by all indication a solid citizen in and out of his NBA surrounding.  I can't ever recall this guy ever having his character placed in doubt.   The dumbass media needs to stop writing on or bout this matter unless that have something to right about.  Right now these fucks keep writing the same nothing with a different headline attached.  

I would like to think that he's not a closet abuser,  believe me if he had punched, kick, slapped or choke someone he wouldn't have been just simply questioned and released especially in Oakland County.  This all public record or easily found out information, was an EMS called?  Was he fingered printed, and mugged shot? Not true while an investigation is on going.

While I don't advocate a man putting his hands on a woman, how often does these incident get over blown by some dramatic female?  Yes this need to be taken seriously when it's actually is "However" this is obviously not because he's not out on bond, there are no restraining orders.  Everyone writing on this as news without any facts is retarded - All I have seen is facts.

While the media has been bad in some situations, in this one, it appears that you may be the one blowing this out of proportion.

All of the articles I've read on the subject have stuck to the FACTS only! I haven't read one article that says anything other than Cheeks is a solid citizen and deserves the benefit of the doubt.

So if you're reading differently, you need to show some proof of more than one media outlet of any repute that's saying these things.

With that out of the way, the incident isn't the news, it's the reaction that's generating all of the speculation!

For a NOTHING incident, they sure seem to have bent over backwards to hide whatever happened!

The logical response would have been(at least from the Pistons), "We would like to comment, but while there is an investigation, we will have to decline".

However, it seems difficult to investigate a "Nothing" incident, so there is at least something there, and it needs to be aired!

How is it that Cheeks, who should be on top of the world with a new job and a great team, getting involved in this stuff? Something is wrong here, even if we never know what it is, something is wrong.

I say this as a person that could give a flying crap about our coaches private life, and I will support him as long as it isn't too serious, and this doesn't appear to rise to that level.

In short I don't care about the incident, but I'm concerned about the way both Cheeks & mostly, the Pistons are handling this. It's a bad way to get this relationship started, and more PR bungling by the Pistons IMO!

[WTF]

DAMN MEDIA!

Here it is this guys has been by all indication a solid citizen in and out of his NBA surrounding. I can't ever recall this guy ever having his character placed in doubt. The dumbass media needs to stop writing on or bout this matter unless that have something to right about. Right now these fucks keep writing the same nothing with a different headline attached.

I would like to think that he's not a closet abuser, believe me if he had punched, kick, slapped or choke someone he wouldn't have been just simply questioned and released especially in Oakland County. This all public record or easily found out information, was an EMS called? Was he fingered printed, and mugged shot?

While I don't advocate a man putting his hands on a woman, how often does these incident get over blown by some dramatic female? Yes this need to be taken seriously when it's actually is "However" this is obviously not because he's not out on bond, there are no restraining orders. Everyone writing on this as news without any facts is retarded

[Oracle]

WILL CHEEKS BE FIRED BEFORE TRAINING CAMP? What happened in Birmingham? Reporters get to work and bring us this story. I don't care is it is true just be creative. Did the dispute involve pushing and shoving? Did this in any way involve Charlie V or Rodney Stuckey? Don't forget that Charlie is a boxer and still wants a match with Kevin Garnett. I am sure this event had nothing to do with drugs or alcohol. Was Joe there?????????

I know you're joking, but this Cheeks thing could be really bad, and if there's nothing going on, then why won't the Pistons & Cheeks come clean with a full disclosure?

They won't because there is something going on and their first response is to deny, deny, deny, just like the advice given to cheating spouses

When will they learn that the cover up can be worse than the crime at times?

[Oracle]

"Jennings is capable of winning some games by himself but quality teams have good game plans and know how to limit Jennings on offense and exploit him when he is on defense." - Don

This is my biggest fear, because the Pistons(with low talent) did it to him regularly, and it was mostly BK7 just D'ing him down! 

But I think that there is hope!!!

This season Jennings isn't going to have to do it all, and the level of defense behind him is going to hopefully make a HUGE difference.

I can't know if this will work, but theoretically, I think the probability is very high, especially if they can get Jennings to play within himself.

Would we be a better defensive team with BK7? Without any doubt in my mind!

However, we could be a much better offensive team with Jennings, and heaven knows we need to score, and hopefully we can effectively hide him on defense!

[cool breeze]

Don on Knight: Don, this was absolutely a panic move by Joe, and it's also a hail Mary, because if Jennings doesn't change, it's going to get ugly around here! Unlike the AI trade, Jennings has plenty of game left, and if he does change, he's going to be very good for us in a lot of areas that Knight wasn't.

However, I do agree that longer term, I think Knight is the better player, but being the better PG is debatable! I still think that we would have been better served(knowing what I know now) drafting Burke, but Joe was too scared to do that and live through Burke's learning curve!

Guys, I don't see the move as being "panic" driven or a "Hail Mary".  I think it was more opportunistic and mostly driven by US getting Josh Smith.  Despite how well he is thought to fit, most seem to acknowledge that Smith was the jewel of the FA class (given the league wide inaccessibility of Howard and Paul).  Getting a talent like Smith (and Billups) accelerates our time table, so why not redefine (perhaps reduce) our risk from "will he (BK7) become the PG we hope, within this earlier opening window " to "can he (BJ) maximize PG skills already displayed".

Jennings offers us an opportunity to go high sooner.

Agree: Smith was the jewel in the crown for us, and WILL be the difference maker this coming season! For all the whining about combo players, those same whiners LOVE combo players in every position except PG! Monroe & Smith are two such examples, but the roster, and the league is loaded with tons of good examples.

Disagree: Jennings was hardly an "Opportunistic" move by Joe, if for no other reason than the logic doesn't work, at least for me.  For something to be opportunistic, it has to occur when you do not expect it and you're in a position to take advantage of the timing to do something!

That was not present in the Jennings situation! Jennings was available and being forcefully Shopped WELL before the season ended! Joe had his reservations about Knight all last year!

So if Joe knew he needed a PG, even after he acquired Smith, why didn't he draft Burke? He was scared!

He obviously didn't want Jennings because everybody and their mother had a chance to get him, but nobody wanted him! Joe wanted Rondo, not Jennings!

So lost in the desert without a doughnut & milk, Joe panics about going into the season with a PG he's disrespected(to a small degree, Knight), and he HAS to do something having failed miserably to get Rondo, so he throws the hail Mary to get the unwanted Jennings!

Then he went into the sales business, and from the results, he got a lot of buyers(locally, not in the media), me included, hoping for a Jennings change of heart.

However, it would be a massive rewrite of history to view this as opportunistic and not panic driven!

Rather than debate the use of opportunistic, panic or hail Mary  I'll say this.

B4 Smith:  We were in the fight for 7-8th seed.
With Smith and BK7:  We were a lock for 6th seed.
With Smith and BJ:  We are in the fight for 4th seed.
No Smith:  I believe Joe rides with BK7 cause BJ would not elevate us past 7-8th seed.

Smith's presence created the reason for Joe to acquire an asset he may not have otherwise.

I respectfully disagree Lemonpen. It will be impossible for Detroit to be competitive with the stronger teams because of the lack of guard defenders on this team. Bynum, Jennings, Stuckey and Billups will not scare any other starting guard in the NBA. The only chance we have to make this 4th seed happen is for some type of trade to happen. Or perhaps Billups can pull off a miracle and play the entire season at a high level without suffering from any injuries. And there is the potential for hope if Pope can actually fit in the system and become an effective 2 way player. I see no hope of Detroit doing much with Bynum, Stuckey, or Jennings against solid teams. Singler can play great defense. Perhaps he could be a special player who can fill two positions off the bench at times. Jennings is capable of winning some games by himself but quality teams have good game plans and know how to limit Jennings on offense and exploit him when he is on defense.

[Oracle]

"Rather than debate the use of opportunistic, panic or hail Mary  I'll say this.

B4 Smith:  We were in the fight for 7-8th seed.
With Smith and BK7:  We were a lock for 6th seed.
With Smith and BJ:  We are in the fight for 4th seed.
No Smith:  I believe Joe rides with BK7 cause BJ would not elevate us past 7-8th seed.

Smith's presence created the reason for Joe to acquire an asset he may not have otherwise." - Lemonpen
 
I think we're in agreement on everything except some of the finer points.

Burke & BK7 both present learning curves and, IMO, time off the clock that we can't afford to lose because Smith is 27! We can't wait 2 years for BK7 to mature, or 2-3 for Burke, when Jennings already has every PG quality of a star if he can get focused!

I just feel that he had Smith a long time before he decided to get Jennings and Jennings wasn't the choice, but a forced decision.

Either way, we're on the same page in regards to the big issues, was it a good move? Yes! Is the possibility of us being much better because of this move? Yes... and I'm a big BK7 fan!

[lemonpen]

Don on Knight: Don, this was absolutely a panic move by Joe, and it's also a hail Mary, because if Jennings doesn't change, it's going to get ugly around here! Unlike the AI trade, Jennings has plenty of game left, and if he does change, he's going to be very good for us in a lot of areas that Knight wasn't.

However, I do agree that longer term, I think Knight is the better player, but being the better PG is debatable! I still think that we would have been better served(knowing what I know now) drafting Burke, but Joe was too scared to do that and live through Burke's learning curve!

Guys, I don't see the move as being "panic" driven or a "Hail Mary".  I think it was more opportunistic and mostly driven by US getting Josh Smith.  Despite how well he is thought to fit, most seem to acknowledge that Smith was the jewel of the FA class (given the league wide inaccessibility of Howard and Paul).  Getting a talent like Smith (and Billups) accelerates our time table, so why not redefine (perhaps reduce) our risk from "will he (BK7) become the PG we hope, within this earlier opening window " to "can he (BJ) maximize PG skills already displayed".

Jennings offers us an opportunity to go high sooner.

Agree: Smith was the jewel in the crown for us, and WILL be the difference maker this coming season! For all the whining about combo players, those same whiners LOVE combo players in every position except PG! Monroe & Smith are two such examples, but the roster, and the league is loaded with tons of good examples.

Disagree: Jennings was hardly an "Opportunistic" move by Joe, if for no other reason than the logic doesn't work, at least for me.  For something to be opportunistic, it has to occur when you do not expect it and you're in a position to take advantage of the timing to do something!

That was not present in the Jennings situation! Jennings was available and being forcefully Shopped WELL before the season ended! Joe had his reservations about Knight all last year!

So if Joe knew he needed a PG, even after he acquired Smith, why didn't he draft Burke? He was scared!

He obviously didn't want Jennings because everybody and their mother had a chance to get him, but nobody wanted him! Joe wanted Rondo, not Jennings!

So lost in the desert without a doughnut & milk, Joe panics about going into the season with a PG he's disrespected(to a small degree, Knight), and he HAS to do something having failed miserably to get Rondo, so he throws the hail Mary to get the unwanted Jennings!

Then he went into the sales business, and from the results, he got a lot of buyers(locally, not in the media), me included, hoping for a Jennings change of heart.

However, it would be a massive rewrite of history to view this as opportunistic and not panic driven!

Rather than debate the use of opportunistic, panic or hail Mary  I'll say this.

B4 Smith:  We were in the fight for 7-8th seed.
With Smith and BK7:  We were a lock for 6th seed.
With Smith and BJ:  We are in the fight for 4th seed.
No Smith:  I believe Joe rides with BK7 cause BJ would not elevate us past 7-8th seed.

Smith's presence created the reason for Joe to acquire an asset he may not have otherwise.

[cool breeze]

WILL CHEEKS BE FIRED BEFORE TRAINING CAMP? What happened in Birmingham? Reporters get to work and bring us this story. I don't care is it is true just be creative. Did the dispute involve pushing and shoving? Did this in any way involve Charlie V or Rodney Stuckey? Don't forget that Charlie is a boxer and still wants a match with Kevin Garnett. I am sure this event had nothing to do with drugs or alcohol. Was Joe there?????????

[cool breeze]

From "Ask David" at mlive: "Besides, of the Pistons' two players with big expiring contracts, Villanueva is the one they might be interested in re-signing -- for a significantly reduced amount, of course -- particularly a trade were to materialize involving, say, Jonas Jerebko."

Dang, I need some time to wrap my mind around that possibility.

That makes my stomach hurt.

Wow! This could happen as long as Joe Dumars is running the show. I think we might be on to something because it is no secret that Joe Dumars loves players who hate playing defense. Joe is fond of the free spirits and is proud of the fact that he stands tall for players who are not wanted on other teams. How do other teams feel about what Charlie brings to the table? No calls Joe? Hmmmm. Maybe something is wrong with the phones. When GMs call and talk to Joe and tell him that they are not interested in Stuckey or Charlie V, Joe thinks they are trying to fool him and maybe trying to trick our great leader. Joe doesn't believe that Charlie V is the guy everyone laughs at be it fans or opposing players. They all say only an idiot would have signed Charlie to the contract he received from the Pistons. What can Dumars do but eat. It would be only fitting for Joe to keep this wonderful player but of course pay him a lot less. Will Charlie take a few million dollars less than he is making now? I am getting worried because Joe thinks that there will be a lot of teams that want him based on the theory that no GM has called Joe. Only one GM has actually expressed interest in either Stuckey or Charlie V and that was John Hammond. He told Joe that there was a chance that the Bucks would want those expiring contracts but would not be able to present this deal to his owners unless Joe agreed to give up Brandon Knight for Jennings. That is why that trade took place and Joe is still waiting for that phone call from John to complete this deal. I think that Charlie V should start along side Rodney Stuckey because John Hammond might call any day and they will be gone. What would we do? You wouldn't be able to get a seat at the Palace. Joe has been doing a lot of thinking lately. He has gained a lot of weight and likes to spread out taking two seats. It is very important that Joe is really comfortable so he can think of ways to improve this team. Yes Joe is worried now about losing Stuckey and Charlie V. You might hear an announcement that Mr. Dumars has re-signed both players just to put this thing to rest.

What I am wondering is who in hell would want to "ASK DAVID" anything about the game of basketball?????My dogs refuse to watch Charlie V because he moves too slow. Is there any doubt that Piston fans have not attended Piston games over the last 3 years because Charlie and Rodney have been wearing the Piston uniform? Are the owners asleep at the wheel? Some of my friends have laughed at me because they know I am a Piston fan and wonder how I could be crazy enough to watch Piston games when Detroit has Charlie and Rodney as their key players. It is funny to me that a high percentage of Piston fans have projected Stuckey to start at the 2 guard. If he does then you know the Pistons are a very weak team. At least the coaching staff last season didn't fall for Rodney's act. Singler and Knight were selected over Rodney but who cares about the facts or history?? But this summer Rodney and Charlie are riding high again and the fans have a right to their reality.

[Sebastian]

I think so, unless KCP does something really spectacular, which I don't think is possible. BTW, I really agree with the underlined part of what he said!

Here's Mayo's take:

"I would expect Caldwell-Pope to become the starting shooting guard sometime during the season, probably earlier than later, but agree Stuckey could begin the season in that role.  Stuckey has the experience but Caldwell-Pope can stretch the floor better and fans will like the number of ways he will find to have impact on games.  It's just a question of when the rookie is ready.  Most teams go with regular rotations of about 10 players and I don't expect Cheeks to buck that much." - Ask David!: Who starts at shooting guard for Detroit Pistons and who is NBA's most improved team?

Oracle, there are a few things that I question the wisdom of, the first being, why hasn't Stuckey been traded by now and we're faced with going into the season "showcasing" his skills, 6 years deep in his career? That in and of itself seems disingenuous. My second point is based on the fact that Joe passed over the hero from Ann Arbor (who plays a position of need, at the time of the draft) to select Caldwell-Pope in the lottery (who plays a position of need, right now), so he must do "something really spectacular" to earn a shot as our starting SG? He's the only legitimate SG on our roster, for heavens sake! My final point goes back to Stuckey, and the lack of wisdom in starting the season with him as our starting SG; how is that going to impact on Jennings efforts to redefine his game when Stuckey is such a piss-poor outside shooter? Will he resort to hoisting up ill-advised shots himself? How will Jennings feel playing with a backcourt running mate who's only effective with the ball in his hands? What would the chemistry be based on? Jennings is too experienced to be "hamstrung" by a player of Stuckey's caliber and not make a stink about it somehow, then he'll be the bad guy without getting a decent chance to change his game. It also appears that, if given a chance, KCP will prove to be a better all-around perimeter defender than Stuckey, (and better outside shooter) and if this should be the case and he replaces Stuckey in the starting lineup, what will that do to Stuckey's already diminishing trade value?

KCP replacing Stuckey is not the same as Prince replacing Curry in the starting lineup; KCP is hopefully our last lottery pick, and the one we need to come in and hit the ground running. Caldwell-Pope is not an AAU phenom, but a hard-nosed country boy, who knows how to play this game and deserves every chance that was denied Drummond last year, when he was playing behind an inferior player. Stuckey played better last year coming off the bench, on an inferior team, and he should start this season coming off the bench; I hope that Cheeks sees things this way, for the good of the team.

Agreed! Your points are all valid and reasonable and smart. As the Grand Poobah of the Rodney Stuckey Club, I think that WE are best served to have Stuckey play the Jarett Jack Role that J. Jack, so effectively played last season with the Warriors.

The Warriors are going to hate the day that they let J. Jack go. Those dummies should had pursue resigned Jack and pursued Pekovic. But, I will never be able to thank them more for drafting Udoh, in '10 Draft. Suckers.  

Yeah, I agree. If B. Jennings is allowed to start and do his thing, the naysayers will begin to appreciate that he is a Piston. Jennings was a great trade by Joe, in my opinion.

Starting KCP would probably be the best for both, the singular maturation of KCP's transition to the NBA and the hopeful chemistry between Jennings and KCP; a point that you (DX) keenly pointed out in a recent post.

This also would put Stuckey in his most effective role/position. And, would add a dimension to OUR back court that most teams would not be able to match.

I think WE can then sprinkle Chauncey in 15-18 minutes per game, here and there.

[Oracle]

Don on Knight: Don, this was absolutely a panic move by Joe, and it's also a hail Mary, because if Jennings doesn't change, it's going to get ugly around here! Unlike the AI trade, Jennings has plenty of game left, and if he does change, he's going to be very good for us in a lot of areas that Knight wasn't.

However, I do agree that longer term, I think Knight is the better player, but being the better PG is debatable! I still think that we would have been better served(knowing what I know now) drafting Burke, but Joe was too scared to do that and live through Burke's learning curve!

Guys, I don't see the move as being "panic" driven or a "Hail Mary".  I think it was more opportunistic and mostly driven by US getting Josh Smith.  Despite how well he is thought to fit, most seem to acknowledge that Smith was the jewel of the FA class (given the league wide inaccessibility of Howard and Paul).  Getting a talent like Smith (and Billups) accelerates our time table, so why not redefine (perhaps reduce) our risk from "will he (BK7) become the PG we hope, within this earlier opening window " to "can he (BJ) maximize PG skills already displayed".

Jennings offers us an opportunity to go high sooner.

Agree: Smith was the jewel in the crown for us, and WILL be the difference maker this coming season! For all the whining about combo players, those same whiners LOVE combo players in every position except PG! Monroe & Smith are two such examples, but the roster, and the league is loaded with tons of good examples.

Disagree: Jennings was hardly an "Opportunistic" move by Joe, if for no other reason than the logic doesn't work, at least for me.  For something to be opportunistic, it has to occur when you do not expect it and you're in a position to take advantage of the timing to do something!

That was not present in the Jennings situation! Jennings was available and being forcefully Shopped WELL before the season ended! Joe had his reservations about Knight all last year!

So if Joe knew he needed a PG, even after he acquired Smith, why didn't he draft Burke? He was scared!

He obviously didn't want Jennings because everybody and their mother had a chance to get him, but nobody wanted him! Joe wanted Rondo, not Jennings!

So lost in the desert without a doughnut & milk, Joe panics about going into the season with a PG he's disrespected(to a small degree, Knight), and he HAS to do something having failed miserably to get Rondo, so he throws the hail Mary to get the unwanted Jennings!

Then he went into the sales business, and from the results, he got a lot of buyers(locally, not in the media), me included, hoping for a Jennings change of heart.

However, it would be a massive rewrite of history to view this as opportunistic and not panic driven!

[deusXango]

I think so, unless KCP does something really spectacular, which I don't think is possible. BTW, I really agree with the underlined part of what he said!

Here's Mayo's take:

"I would expect Caldwell-Pope to become the starting shooting guard sometime during the season, probably earlier than later, but agree Stuckey could begin the season in that role.  Stuckey has the experience but Caldwell-Pope can stretch the floor better and fans will like the number of ways he will find to have impact on games.  It's just a question of when the rookie is ready.  Most teams go with regular rotations of about 10 players and I don't expect Cheeks to buck that much." - Ask David!: Who starts at shooting guard for Detroit Pistons and who is NBA's most improved team?

Oracle, there are a few things that I question the wisdom of, the first being, why hasn't Stuckey been traded by now and we're faced with going into the season "showcasing" his skills, 6 years deep in his career? That in and of itself seems disingenuous. My second point is based on the fact that Joe passed over the hero from Ann Arbor (who plays a position of need, at the time of the draft) to select Caldwell-Pope in the lottery (who plays a position of need, right now), so he must do "something really spectacular" to earn a shot as our starting SG? He's the only legitimate SG on our roster, for heavens sake! My final point goes back to Stuckey, and the lack of wisdom in starting the season with him as our starting SG; how is that going to impact on Jennings efforts to redefine his game when Stuckey is such a piss-poor outside shooter? Will he resort to hoisting up ill-advised shots himself? How will Jennings feel playing with a backcourt running mate who's only effective with the ball in his hands? What would the chemistry be based on? Jennings is too experienced to be "hamstrung" by a player of Stuckey's caliber and not make a stink about it somehow, then he'll be the bad guy without getting a decent chance to change his game. It also appears that, if given a chance, KCP will prove to be a better all-around perimeter defender than Stuckey, (and better outside shooter) and if this should be the case and he replaces Stuckey in the starting lineup, what will that do to Stuckey's already diminishing trade value?

KCP replacing Stuckey is not the same as Prince replacing Curry in the starting lineup; KCP is hopefully our last lottery pick, and the one we need to come in and hit the ground running. Caldwell-Pope is not an AAU phenom, but a hard-nosed country boy, who knows how to play this game and deserves every chance that was denied Drummond last year, when he was playing behind an inferior player. Stuckey played better last year coming off the bench, on an inferior team, and he should start this season coming off the bench; I hope that Cheeks sees things this way, for the good of the team.

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