My Traditional Thoughts

[WTF]

I suppose where I might be reluctant to embrace the make up the roster is rooted in somehow in my reluctance to let go of an era where I think the best NBA Basketball was played ever (The 80's).   The game wasn't overly analyzed and free of trending fades and dreamy idea of notions of what if.
 
Only in basketball has the disruption of a traditional team roster makeup is allowed, unlike with football and baseball a team know it going to a carry a number players at a certain position.  You won't find a football team carrying 5 QB's and 8 Kickers or a baseball team with 9 catchers.  More importantly you won't see a QB playing CB or a pitcher playing SS but basketball tend to fall in love with the abundance of under talented tweeners and proceed to construct a team and coach teams in the manner of managing a PS3 game.   It's too much of a freaking guessing game and a lot of the un-certainty comes because how the roster is approached.
 
I remember the days of consistent 10 man rotations and sometimes just 9, there was no guess work to who got the bulk of minutes.  You typically had your starting 5 and 5 backups and you knew there was always going to be 2 or 3 players who would only see garbage minutes at best.    
 
I strongly believe in 3 guard rotations and the merits of having 1 backup at SF and having a viable backup at center and power forward.   I'm not opposes to having that freak of nature player ala Worm, or that specialist ala Rice or Horry but what I do oppose is having a roster full of Combo Guards and Tweener Forwards which IMO we have far to many of at the moment.  
 
I'm not against competing players fighting for roster spots, just that you can still get that with a more balanced make up of the roster going into camp,  I just think it crazy to carry 6 guards, and 5 tweener SF into training camp when there's only 2 PF and 2 centers on the roster.  I think it eliminates all the guessing a coaching staff has to do, and the rotation is better managed.  I see nothing wrong with going to camp with perhaps 5 guards and 3 SF while adding another center and 2 more PF.   As I see it Mitchel is that freak of nature player and Datome is that specialist  Not really sure that we need to hold onto a couple of tweeners in JJ and Singler at the expense of properly balancing the roster before training camp.  
 
It's easy to figure out what 5 guards (Jennings, Billups, Stuckey, KCP ad Siva) at this point needs to be on the team and it easy to figure out what 3 or 4 should be getting the of PT.  Now it just a matter of how you rotate the 3 or 4 players.  The same with the small forward spot, you have a starter in Smith who plays well on both ends, now you limit your option of his backups to Mitchel an energy guy and Datome and 3pt Specialist, so why confuse things with having 2 tweeners. We already know Smith getting 30 plus minutes at the SF and that the situations are either going dictate bringing in Datome for his shooting or Mitchel to continue were Smith left off.  
 
Now unless Charlie steps his game up and Harrellson is a lot better than he is then we need players at the PF and center that can effectively come in behind Drummond and Monroe.  My fellow fans I assure you that neither of the Tweeners (Singler and JJ fit that bill) I would much rather have Maxiell back in that capacity of backup PF and C.
 
IMO not does balancing out the roster properly now makes the coaching part easier, it also promotes the development of young player which many has complained about in the past.

[Murph]

Stones, I have to agree with your Stuckey position! If he can be the player we remember(or 3/4 of that player), I'll be really happy. Stuckey possesses physical qualities that no other guard on the roster has from the PG position, less so at the SG position.

But a productive Stuckey makes us that more dangerous! I also like your thoughts on trading him heading into the playoffs if he's doing well.

Predicting the Top 3 NBA Rookies at Every Position in 2013-14 is interesting in that Trey Burke is predicted to be the TOP PG of all rookies, but KCP can't even crack the top 3. Take a look - Predicting the Top 3 NBA Rookies at Every Position in 2013-14

Sounds about right.  I also like the prediction that Tony Mitchell will be the #3 PF taken in the draft.  Mitchell is going to have to beat out a number of forwards on the roster, in order to play enough minutes at PF for the prediction to come true.  I'm rooting for Mitchell to do just that.

[Oracle]

Rant Sports has an article with that title and it remembers almost all of the bad things about AI being here - Remembering Allen Iverson As A Detroit Piston

But that's only one part of the story, there's more(the forgotten part)...

1. Chauncey needed trading, he was a shell of his former self, and didn't start playing great until he got traded.

2. Picking up AI for CB was a smart move, the dumb part was what Joe did with the money from AI's expiring contract. If that had gone well, people's view of the move would have been tempered a bit!
 
3. That AI team did something we haven't done since... they made the playoffs!

4. They also did something else that we haven't even come close to doing... they had multiple win streaks approaching 10 games, mostly authored by AI & Stuckey, who had found a rhythm until Curry & RIP screwed it up!

[Go Stones!]

Why Charlie, Will and Rodney still remain with the team?  Obviously Charlie and Rodney are valuable trade pieces with both having expiring contracts and a serviceable amount of talent that could make them valuable come trade deadline.  I still don't get the resigning of Will Bynum considering we drafted Pope, Siva and signed Billups for 2 seasons the trading for Jennings.  Billups, Pope, Jennings, Siva, Stuckey, and Bynum do we really go into a season with 6 guards representing almost half the roster spots?  If I had to guess I say 1 of these players will be gone before the season starts and replaced with that true backup center to Drummond.

Why Josh, JJ, Singler, Mitchel, Datome?  Logically teams need to only carry 3 SF on their roster but here Joe has 5 of them on the roster.  Make no mistake people that this are all natural SF even though in a pinch the maybe able to provide minutes at the PF spot.  Right now Joe only has 2 PF on the roster and my gut tells me that 2 of the 5 SF on this team will be moved before the start of the season and a 3rd PF will be picked up.  

A lot of fans think we need to have this Charter School approach as where everyone gets an "A" for effort meaning everyone should play just because they sport the uniform. But the math doesn't add up here the Pistons have 15 players, but can only dress 12 at a time.  What 3 players don't dress? It's hard figuring PT for 4 guards yet alone 6 of them and the same with our SF position.  This is why I've been screaming to trade both JJ and Singler neither are slated to start for us because neither stand a chance in hell of beating out Smith for the stating spot.  All we need is for one of our back up to d is relieve Smith 15 minutes a game.  Both Datome and Mitchel should be able to handle that really I we had to make a case to really keep JJ or Singler then you keep JJ simply because he plays that PF better than Singler does and we should be carrying 4 PF on this roster.  

When you factor in what a team can actually dress each night for a game then we need to be dressing 5 guards, 2 centers, 3 SF and 2 PF. My point in all this is to say that this roster I still al jacked up and is not balanced and if it doesn't get properly balanced we are going to have problems and that Cheeks might as well be Frank, Curry and Kuester

You have some good points.  I can see how those questions could easily haunt your mind going into the season.  Here are some of my points that may, or may not, answer these:

1. This is arguably Joe's last season unless he pulls a rabbit out of a hat.  The rabbit is 1/2 way out.  Or, the home run has been hit, we just need to round the bases.  The desired outcome is making the playoffs.  (Remember that Joe D mentioned that the 2004 champs were to peak in 2005...this shows he plans...he does not expect to do anything but playoffs this year)

2. New coach...Joe doesn't know which way his coach will go with his roster and playing time.  With this fact, what Joe D did is cover all the bases with the 2-3 years future in mind.  So, that is why there is SO much depth and SO many options that can be done.  
     *Bynum and Harrellson are "change of pace" or "alternate option" type players.  They give an alternate     dimension of what the players in front of them provide.  

     *The other portion of players are Singler and JJ.  They are proven hard-nosed players who can provide  depth and create a great work ethic on the team.

     *CV and Stuckey may provide surprise results, but at worst they are trade bait.  Let's see what they decide to do...it is their career.  It is encouraging to hear that Stuckey is working his tail off.  I hope CV is boxing and getting in good shape too.  Remember that this is equivalent to a contract year for both, so it is in their best interest to play at the top of their ability.  Joe D may see this and jump on it.

3. New players:  You just don't know about some of these guys...Jennings and Smith should have no problem since they have played for a number of years.  On the other hand, Dre is not quite established and may have some growing pains.  But, Ponytail, Siva, Mitchell, KCP are all rookies on a GOOD team.  There needs to be a period of training wheels....like they did with Prince, Memo and Dre back in the day.  So, until the rookies prove themselves you CAN rely on Bynum, Singler and JJ.  All 3 work their TAIL off!

4. Many moving parts:  With vets, better star players, hard-nosed players and rookies all on the team, it is a miracle we have what we have.  Keep in mind that Joe D has done some amazing trades in the past (Rasheed, Williamson, etc) that took good quality vets and turned them into better players...kind of like the Jennings trade (to be determined if it is better or not).  I would not be surprised if he turns Bynum, JJ, Singler, Stuckey or CV into a better player before the end of the season.  He knows what these guys can do and there is no further surprise.  The rookies still have to prove themselves so most likely will not be traded.

***On another note:  I would be a HUGE fan of Laimbeer coming on the coaching staff after his season is over.  I think that would be a great transition into NBA headcoach job....not necessarily with the Pistons.  Can you imagine Cheeks, Sheed, Laimbeer and Billups on our bench in coming seasons?  One can hope.

Excellent post Go Stones! Too bad we don't have reporters who can write like you.

But I AM a reporter...in my head and especially for YOU guys! I'm just a Pistons fan who can reach back to the Bad Boy days to present. Since I live in South "FREAKIN" Carolina, no one else is a fan so I have to resort to this forum. Would rather hang out and chat personally, but not possible. Thanks for the props though.

[Go Stones!]

Now there is a danger in doing things this way, and we've all seen it for years! Coaches fall in love with vets that are producing to the point of sitting promising youngsters for an entire season. That is a risk, IMO, that we will have to take to maximize out potential. If the vets like Stuckey, Bynum, Singler, CV & JJ are producing, it's going to be tough to sit them.

Oracle: I agree with the youngsters vs. vets issue. I think it would play out best if we had vets start at the beginning of the season and around the mid-way point start introducing them into the starting line-up or off the bench fairly quick if they prove to be that good.

Do you remember players like M.Curry, Darvin "freakin" Ham and Herrmann (aka Mr. Muscle)? How did they get the playing time that they got? I personally believe that the coaches wanted to reward those who played HARD in practice. This may have been how Singler got in the starting line-up close to the start of the season. It does NOT explain why JJ got benched for eternity, however...knowing that JJ brings it 110% every opportunity.

[Oracle]

While Wise does raise valid points that will have to be addressed going forward, Stones has laid out what I think is the way forward.

It's too early to declare winners and losers! We need to let this play out and see who rises to the occasion before we step in and make decisions that aren't reflective of what happens on the court!

I also think that it's true that having the vets insures that we can get off the ground running! The rookies and guys that have question marks about their NBA play need to prove themselves before we just assume that they can compete at this level.

Now there is a danger in doing things this way, and we've all seen it for years! Coaches fall in love with vets that are producing to the point of sitting promising youngsters for an entire season. That is a risk, IMO, that we will have to take to maximize out potential. If the vets like Stuckey, Bynum, Singler, CV & JJ are producing, it's going to be tough to sit them.
 
It's going to be tricky, but man, I really want these problem as opposed to tinkering with a lineup that has Prince and Maxiell in it! Wow, how pathetic we used to be, and I would sucker myself into thinking that we had even a glimmer of hope to get into the playoffs!

Thank you Joe!!!

[cool breeze]

Why Charlie, Will and Rodney still remain with the team?  Obviously Charlie and Rodney are valuable trade pieces with both having expiring contracts and a serviceable amount of talent that could make them valuable come trade deadline.  I still don't get the resigning of Will Bynum considering we drafted Pope, Siva and signed Billups for 2 seasons the trading for Jennings.  Billups, Pope, Jennings, Siva, Stuckey, and Bynum do we really go into a season with 6 guards representing almost half the roster spots?  If I had to guess I say 1 of these players will be gone before the season starts and replaced with that true backup center to Drummond.

Why Josh, JJ, Singler, Mitchel, Datome?  Logically teams need to only carry 3 SF on their roster but here Joe has 5 of them on the roster.  Make no mistake people that this are all natural SF even though in a pinch the maybe able to provide minutes at the PF spot.  Right now Joe only has 2 PF on the roster and my gut tells me that 2 of the 5 SF on this team will be moved before the start of the season and a 3rd PF will be picked up.  

A lot of fans think we need to have this Charter School approach as where everyone gets an "A" for effort meaning everyone should play just because they sport the uniform. But the math doesn't add up here the Pistons have 15 players, but can only dress 12 at a time.  What 3 players don't dress? It's hard figuring PT for 4 guards yet alone 6 of them and the same with our SF position.  This is why I've been screaming to trade both JJ and Singler neither are slated to start for us because neither stand a chance in hell of beating out Smith for the stating spot.  All we need is for one of our back up to d is relieve Smith 15 minutes a game.  Both Datome and Mitchel should be able to handle that really I we had to make a case to really keep JJ or Singler then you keep JJ simply because he plays that PF better than Singler does and we should be carrying 4 PF on this roster.  

When you factor in what a team can actually dress each night for a game then we need to be dressing 5 guards, 2 centers, 3 SF and 2 PF. My point in all this is to say that this roster I still al jacked up and is not balanced and if it doesn't get properly balanced we are going to have problems and that Cheeks might as well be Frank, Curry and Kuester

You have some good points.  I can see how those questions could easily haunt your mind going into the season.  Here are some of my points that may, or may not, answer these:

1. This is arguably Joe's last season unless he pulls a rabbit out of a hat.  The rabbit is 1/2 way out.  Or, the home run has been hit, we just need to round the bases.  The desired outcome is making the playoffs.  (Remember that Joe D mentioned that the 2004 champs were to peak in 2005...this shows he plans...he does not expect to do anything but playoffs this year)

2. New coach...Joe doesn't know which way his coach will go with his roster and playing time.  With this fact, what Joe D did is cover all the bases with the 2-3 years future in mind.  So, that is why there is SO much depth and SO many options that can be done.  
     *Bynum and Harrellson are "change of pace" or "alternate option" type players.  They give an alternate     dimension of what the players in front of them provide.  

     *The other portion of players are Singler and JJ.  They are proven hard-nosed players who can provide  depth and create a great work ethic on the team.

     *CV and Stuckey may provide surprise results, but at worst they are trade bait.  Let's see what they decide to do...it is their career.  It is encouraging to hear that Stuckey is working his tail off.  I hope CV is boxing and getting in good shape too.  Remember that this is equivalent to a contract year for both, so it is in their best interest to play at the top of their ability.  Joe D may see this and jump on it.

3. New players:  You just don't know about some of these guys...Jennings and Smith should have no problem since they have played for a number of years.  On the other hand, Dre is not quite established and may have some growing pains.  But, Ponytail, Siva, Mitchell, KCP are all rookies on a GOOD team.  There needs to be a period of training wheels....like they did with Prince, Memo and Dre back in the day.  So, until the rookies prove themselves you CAN rely on Bynum, Singler and JJ.  All 3 work their TAIL off!

4. Many moving parts:  With vets, better star players, hard-nosed players and rookies all on the team, it is a miracle we have what we have.  Keep in mind that Joe D has done some amazing trades in the past (Rasheed, Williamson, etc) that took good quality vets and turned them into better players...kind of like the Jennings trade (to be determined if it is better or not).  I would not be surprised if he turns Bynum, JJ, Singler, Stuckey or CV into a better player before the end of the season.  He knows what these guys can do and there is no further surprise.  The rookies still have to prove themselves so most likely will not be traded.

***On another note:  I would be a HUGE fan of Laimbeer coming on the coaching staff after his season is over.  I think that would be a great transition into NBA headcoach job....not necessarily with the Pistons.  Can you imagine Cheeks, Sheed, Laimbeer and Billups on our bench in coming seasons?  One can hope.

Excellent post Go Stones! Too bad we don't have reporters who can write like you.

[cool breeze]

Why Charlie, Will and Rodney still remain with the team?  Obviously Charlie and Rodney are valuable trade pieces with both having expiring contracts and a serviceable amount of talent that could make them valuable come trade deadline.  I still don't get the resigning of Will Bynum considering we drafted Pope, Siva and signed Billups for 2 seasons the trading for Jennings.  Billups, Pope, Jennings, Siva, Stuckey, and Bynum do we really go into a season with 6 guards representing almost half the roster spots?  If I had to guess I say 1 of these players will be gone before the season starts and replaced with that true backup center to Drummond.
 
Why Josh, JJ, Singler, Mitchel, Datome?  Logically teams need to only carry 3 SF on their roster but here Joe has 5 of them on the roster.  Make no mistake people that these are all natural SF even though in a pinch they may be able to provide minutes at the PF spot.  Right now Joe only has 2 PF on the roster and my gut tells me that 2 of the 5 SF on this team will be moved before the start of the season and a 3rd PF will be picked up.  
 
A lot of fans think we need to have this Charter School approach as where everyone gets an "A" for effort meaning everyone should play just because they sport the uniform. But the math doesn't add up here the Pistons have 15 players, but can only dress 12 at a time.  What 3 players don't dress? It's hard figuring PT for 4 guards yet alone 6 of them and the same with our SF position.  This is why I've been screaming to trade both JJ and Singler neither are slated to start for us because neither stand a chance in hell of beating out Smith for the stating spot.  All we need is for one of our back up to d is relieve Smith 15 minutes a game.  Both Datome and Mitchel should be able to handle that really I we had to make a case to really keep JJ or Singler then you keep JJ simply because he plays that PF better than Singler does and we should be carrying 4 PF on this roster.  
 
When you factor in what a team can actually dress each night for a game then we need to be dressing 5 guards, 2 centers, 3 SF and 2 PF. My point in all this is to say that this roster I still al jacked up and is not balanced and if it doesn't get properly balanced we are going to have problems and that Cheeks might as well be Frank, Curry and Kuester

Wisefan I liked your first paragraph. However, I do not feel there is any problem with the stock pile of small forwards you listed in Mitchel, Datome, JJ and Singler. I believe that the only way Mitchell will get playing time is at power forward if he can play the Dennis Rodman style of defense. He is a quick jumper and has a nose for the ball. He is powerful enough to handle a lot of power forwards on defense as well. Use him on pick and roll plays on offense being that he is quick around the rim. JJ and Singler can play two positions. JJ has played mostly power forward and would be a good player to use with a up tempo second unit. And Singler can play two skill positions, shooting guard and small forward. Both JJ and Singler are great passers and team first type players who play spirited defense and go after loose balls. Coaches know that you have to have a few players who have well rounded games and play an unselfish style. The only player you mentioned who is limited to one position is Datome. My best guess is that Datome will take the usual amount of time to get comfortable with the speed of NBA basketball. His big challenge will be on the defensive end. I really am excited about training camp and finding out how the players fit in with each other. We have some players with flare like Smith and Jennings. There is Mr. Big Shot who will make things fun for everyone. I only wish that I could be there to watch players like Siva find his way. May all players have a fair shot at making the rotation.

[Go Stones!]

Here are a couple of things that's IMO wrong here. I don't have an issue with having depth its just badly distribute across the roster and in some areas it's over kill especially at the 2 position I've mention.  There's no real value in having Bynum when you already have variety at those guard spots.  Jennings, Stuckey and Billups already have that change of pace to games because all three provide something different at the PG position.  The same can be said when looking at what KCP, Billups and Stuckey also provides at the SG spot, so if I'm left with a option between Siva and Bynum I'm leaning towards Siva simply because it gives Cheeks piece of mind of not having a 5th guard who thinks he needs 15 minutes a game. Siva will gladly except those DNP-CD's.
 
This is to your point about Drummond still being very young and raw offensively.  Yes we signed Harrellson but he doesn't address the need of this team to have a viable backup at the center position. In a perfect world or not so perfect whoever coming into back up Drummond needs to be in the manner of how (Edwards use to back up Laimbeer  or Campbell coming in for Big Ben)  we simply don't have that with Drummond and Harrellson.  
 
We can say basically the same with Monroe if the intent is to trade Charlie at some point.  If we were to be honest with ourselves for a moment neither JJ or Singler are not better choices to back up Monroe than Charlie. This is why one of them if not both need to be traded but it's over-kill at that SF position as well.  
 
We can talk about what might happen down the road, but the immediate future say's correct the roster now and not later on.  You're not going to sit Charlie or Rodney, it would be insane to sit your #8 choice in the draft. You might even be able to get away with sending Mitchel and Siva to D-League but you can still only dress 12 players and 2 of those 12 will see little or no PT.   The roster will still be un-balanced an we're still without viable back ups go both Drummond ad Monroe.

I think we agree to disagree. I think you will see that all will work its way out during the season. I see your points, but I have enough faith in the administration that I think it is all covered...for now. I will let you know if I don't agree with how things are after the trade deadline.

The depth will take care of any possible injuries that can/will occur during the season. This roster depth MAY be a result of scraping down during the season due to injuries.

[WTF]

Here are a couple of things that's IMO wrong here. I don't have an issue with having depth its just badly distribute across the roster and in some areas it's over kill especially at the 2 position I've mention.  There's no real value in having Bynum when you already have variety at those guard spots.  Jennings, Stuckey and Billups already have that change of pace to games because all three provide something different at the PG position.  The same can be said when looking at what KCP, Billups and Stuckey also provides at the SG spot, so if I'm left with a option between Siva and Bynum I'm leaning towards Siva simply because it gives Cheeks piece of mind of not having a 5th guard who thinks he needs 15 minutes a game. Siva will gladly except those DNP-CD's.
 
This is to your point about Drummond still being very young and raw offensively.  Yes we signed Harrellson but he doesn't address the need of this team to have a viable backup at the center position. In a perfect world or not so perfect whoever coming into back up Drummond needs to be in the manner of how (Edwards use to back up Laimbeer  or Campbell coming in for Big Ben)  we simply don't have that with Drummond and Harrellson.  
 
We can say basically the same with Monroe if the intent is to trade Charlie at some point.  If we were to be honest with ourselves for a moment neither JJ or Singler are not better choices to back up Monroe than Charlie. This is why one of them if not both need to be traded but it's over-kill at that SF position as well.  
 
We can talk about what might happen down the road, but the immediate future say's correct the roster now and not later on.  You're not going to sit Charlie or Rodney, it would be insane to sit your #8 choice in the draft. You might even be able to get away with sending Mitchel and Siva to D-League but you can still only dress 12 players and 2 of those 12 will see little or no PT.   The roster will still be un-balanced an we're still without viable back ups go both Drummond ad Monroe.

[Go Stones!]

Why Charlie, Will and Rodney still remain with the team?  Obviously Charlie and Rodney are valuable trade pieces with both having expiring contracts and a serviceable amount of talent that could make them valuable come trade deadline.  I still don't get the resigning of Will Bynum considering we drafted Pope, Siva and signed Billups for 2 seasons the trading for Jennings.  Billups, Pope, Jennings, Siva, Stuckey, and Bynum do we really go into a season with 6 guards representing almost half the roster spots?  If I had to guess I say 1 of these players will be gone before the season starts and replaced with that true backup center to Drummond.

Why Josh, JJ, Singler, Mitchel, Datome?  Logically teams need to only carry 3 SF on their roster but here Joe has 5 of them on the roster.  Make no mistake people that this are all natural SF even though in a pinch the maybe able to provide minutes at the PF spot.  Right now Joe only has 2 PF on the roster and my gut tells me that 2 of the 5 SF on this team will be moved before the start of the season and a 3rd PF will be picked up.  

A lot of fans think we need to have this Charter School approach as where everyone gets an "A" for effort meaning everyone should play just because they sport the uniform. But the math doesn't add up here the Pistons have 15 players, but can only dress 12 at a time.  What 3 players don't dress? It's hard figuring PT for 4 guards yet alone 6 of them and the same with our SF position.  This is why I've been screaming to trade both JJ and Singler neither are slated to start for us because neither stand a chance in hell of beating out Smith for the stating spot.  All we need is for one of our back up to d is relieve Smith 15 minutes a game.  Both Datome and Mitchel should be able to handle that really I we had to make a case to really keep JJ or Singler then you keep JJ simply because he plays that PF better than Singler does and we should be carrying 4 PF on this roster.  

When you factor in what a team can actually dress each night for a game then we need to be dressing 5 guards, 2 centers, 3 SF and 2 PF. My point in all this is to say that this roster I still al jacked up and is not balanced and if it doesn't get properly balanced we are going to have problems and that Cheeks might as well be Frank, Curry and Kuester

You have some good points. I can see how those questions could easily haunt your mind going into the season. Here are some of my points that may, or may not, answer these:

1. This is arguably Joe's last season unless he pulls a rabbit out of a hat. The rabbit is 1/2 way out. Or, the home run has been hit, we just need to round the bases. The desired outcome is making the playoffs. (Remember that Joe D mentioned that the 2004 champs were to peak in 2005...this shows he plans...he does not expect to do anything but playoffs this year)

2. New coach...Joe doesn't know which way his coach will go with his roster and playing time. With this fact, what Joe D did is cover all the bases with the 2-3 years future in mind. So, that is why there is SO much depth and SO many options that can be done.
*Bynum and Harrellson are "change of pace" or "alternate option" type players. They give an alternate dimension of what the players in front of them provide.

*The other portion of players are Singler and JJ. They are proven hard-nosed players who can provide depth and create a great work ethic on the team.

*CV and Stuckey may provide surprise results, but at worst they are trade bait. Let's see what they decide to do...it is their career. It is encouraging to hear that Stuckey is working his tail off. I hope CV is boxing and getting in good shape too. Remember that this is equivalent to a contract year for both, so it is in their best interest to play at the top of their ability. Joe D may see this and jump on it.

3. New players: You just don't know about some of these guys...Jennings and Smith should have no problem since they have played for a number of years. On the other hand, Dre is not quite established and may have some growing pains. But, Ponytail, Siva, Mitchell, KCP are all rookies on a GOOD team. There needs to be a period of training wheels....like they did with Prince, Memo and Dre back in the day. So, until the rookies prove themselves you CAN rely on Bynum, Singler and JJ. All 3 work their TAIL off!

4. Many moving parts: With vets, better star players, hard-nosed players and rookies all on the team, it is a miracle we have what we have. Keep in mind that Joe D has done some amazing trades in the past (Rasheed, Williamson, etc) that took good quality vets and turned them into better players...kind of like the Jennings trade (to be determined if it is better or not). I would not be surprised if he turns Bynum, JJ, Singler, Stuckey or CV into a better player before the end of the season. He knows what these guys can do and there is no further surprise. The rookies still have to prove themselves so most likely will not be traded.

***On another note: I would be a HUGE fan of Laimbeer coming on the coaching staff after his season is over. I think that would be a great transition into NBA headcoach job....not necessarily with the Pistons. Can you imagine Cheeks, Sheed, Laimbeer and Billups on our bench in coming seasons? One can hope.

[WTF]

Why Charlie, Will and Rodney still remain with the team?  Obviously Charlie and Rodney are valuable trade pieces with both having expiring contracts and a serviceable amount of talent that could make them valuable come trade deadline.  I still don't get the resigning of Will Bynum considering we drafted Pope, Siva and signed Billups for 2 seasons the trading for Jennings.  Billups, Pope, Jennings, Siva, Stuckey, and Bynum do we really go into a season with 6 guards representing almost half the roster spots?  If I had to guess I say 1 of these players will be gone before the season starts and replaced with that true backup center to Drummond.
 
Why Josh, JJ, Singler, Mitchel, Datome?  Logically teams need to only carry 3 SF on their roster but here Joe has 5 of them on the roster.  Make no mistake people that these are all natural SF even though in a pinch they may be able to provide minutes at the PF spot.  Right now Joe only has 2 PF on the roster and my gut tells me that 2 of the 5 SF on this team will be moved before the start of the season and a 3rd PF will be picked up.  
 
A lot of fans think we need to have this Charter School approach as where everyone gets an "A" for effort meaning everyone should play just because they sport the uniform. But the math doesn't add up here the Pistons have 15 players, but can only dress 12 at a time.  What 3 players don't dress? It's hard figuring PT for 4 guards yet alone 6 of them and the same with our SF position.  This is why I've been screaming to trade both JJ and Singler neither are slated to start for us because neither stand a chance in hell of beating out Smith for the stating spot.  All we need is for one of our back up to d is relieve Smith 15 minutes a game.  Both Datome and Mitchel should be able to handle that really I we had to make a case to really keep JJ or Singler then you keep JJ simply because he plays that PF better than Singler does and we should be carrying 4 PF on this roster.  
 
When you factor in what a team can actually dress each night for a game then we need to be dressing 5 guards, 2 centers, 3 SF and 2 PF. My point in all this is to say that this roster I still al jacked up and is not balanced and if it doesn't get properly balanced we are going to have problems and that Cheeks might as well be Frank, Curry and Kuester

[Sebastian]

No, these aren't the best analyst I ever heard, they're only decent, but they bring up some really great points.

DX will love it because in their analysis, the conclude that KCP has to start! Also some good stuff on Jennings & Smith, and a bit of an undressing of Joe!

It's long, 24 minutes, so you may have to take it in portions like I did.

NBA Podcast: 2013-14 Detroit Pistons Season Preview


@Wise - I was referring to you overlooking my facts, but I'm used to it by now

BTW, you'll love this as well, because they don't think Monroe fits!

Yo, thanks, Oracle.

[Sebastian]

I just wanted to correct one big thing.

"Now I understand you're still distraught over the trading of Knight but Knight was not the better of the two which is why Knight was traded and Stuckey is still here. You keep attempting to rewrite history on how Singler got to start in the first place. Singler didn't beat Stuckey out of his position Stuckey gave it to him come on." - Wise

1. You're correct about Singler, Stuckey did a preemptive strike because they were thinking that Singler would be better, which IMO, wasn't really the truth, but that never stopped Frank. So Stuckey stepped down. Singler was playing better at the time and he was draining 3 pointers regularly. But after Singler started stinking up the place, he never got replaced.

2. Here's the correction! You're 100% wrong about Knight! Knight was OBVIOUSLY the better of the two! Stuckey had absolutely NO value, and nobody with the title of GM was going to touch the inferior player. Knight had the value and was the centerpiece of the deal. The Bucks could have had Stuckey instead, but they're too smart for that!

I think this a matter of perspective concerning Knight and Stuckey.  The reason I'm saying this that Knight failed at the PG and this forced Joe into the Calderon trade, and for various reason Knight was ineffective as the SG.  Knight was only slightly better offensively than Stuckey was but the overall IMO Stuckey was simply better.  I'm sure the Bucks feel they got what was best suited for them but I don't think Joe offered up Stuckey to the Bucks.  

Then you should leave your perspective out of this and deal with the facts!

Fact 1: Stuckey has been on the block for what? About a year? A dude that represents the most valuable thing in the NBA... an expiring contract, and no takers??? So when the whole league passes on this dude, you simply have to be dreaming to think he has value. there's no logic that makes that work!

Fact 2: Stop guessing, the Bucks told you what and who they wanted, Joe doesn't offer, people TAKE in case you haven't been following this situation. The Bucks wanted Knight, plain and simple because they know that he's going to work out for them better than Jennings ever would! That doesn't mean Knight is better than Jennings, but it does mean that the fit is better for each organization, that's why it was a great deal! Stuckey would be the WORST guard for the Bucks and it doesn't take rocket science to see that.

BTW, it's hard to say Knight failed at PG when by the same measure Calderon was worse. The logical conclusion is that PG wasn't the problem when you swap out PG's and it gets worse, but your logic may vary!

While there are more profitable subjects to explore about our favorite team than rehashing these old arguments, I do understand that these things come up from time to time.

It all comes down to perspective it's inevitable

This is why they call you The Oracle! Well said.

Agreed! 

[cool breeze]

I just wanted to correct one big thing.

"Now I understand you're still distraught over the trading of Knight but Knight was not the better of the two which is why Knight was traded and Stuckey is still here. You keep attempting to rewrite history on how Singler got to start in the first place. Singler didn't beat Stuckey out of his position Stuckey gave it to him come on." - Wise

1. You're correct about Singler, Stuckey did a preemptive strike because they were thinking that Singler would be better, which IMO, wasn't really the truth, but that never stopped Frank. So Stuckey stepped down. Singler was playing better at the time and he was draining 3 pointers regularly. But after Singler started stinking up the place, he never got replaced.

2. Here's the correction! You're 100% wrong about Knight! Knight was OBVIOUSLY the better of the two! Stuckey had absolutely NO value, and nobody with the title of GM was going to touch the inferior player. Knight had the value and was the centerpiece of the deal. The Bucks could have had Stuckey instead, but they're too smart for that!

I think this a matter of perspective concerning Knight and Stuckey.  The reason I'm saying this that Knight failed at the PG and this forced Joe into the Calderon trade, and for various reason Knight was ineffective as the SG.  Knight was only slightly better offensively than Stuckey was but the overall IMO Stuckey was simply better.  I'm sure the Bucks feel they got what was best suited for them but I don't think Joe offered up Stuckey to the Bucks.  

Then you should leave your perspective out of this and deal with the facts!

Fact 1: Stuckey has been on the block for what? About a year? A dude that represents the most valuable thing in the NBA... an expiring contract, and no takers??? So when the whole league passes on this dude, you simply have to be dreaming to think he has value. there's no logic that makes that work!

Fact 2: Stop guessing, the Bucks told you what and who they wanted, Joe doesn't offer, people TAKE in case you haven't been following this situation. The Bucks wanted Knight, plain and simple because they know that he's going to work out for them better than Jennings ever would! That doesn't mean Knight is better than Jennings, but it does mean that the fit is better for each organization, that's why it was a great deal! Stuckey would be the WORST guard for the Bucks and it doesn't take rocket science to see that.

BTW, it's hard to say Knight failed at PG when by the same measure Calderon was worse. The logical conclusion is that PG wasn't the problem when you swap out PG's and it gets worse, but your logic may vary!

While there are more profitable subjects to explore about our favorite team than rehashing these old arguments, I do understand that these things come up from time to time.

It all comes down to perspective it's inevitable

This is why they call you The Oracle! Well said.

[cool breeze]

*Stuckey will come in like a champion.
*Billups will push Stuckey to being the best he can be....coach will also mentor him.
*It is his contract year (in his mind) so either he plays great and we resign him (and not Billups) or we trade him while his stock is high.  Either way Joe D will cry tears over the decision.  As an aside, if the Pistons are due to hit the Playoffs, Joe D will consider if he can trade Stuckey for someone to push us over the edge, but if there is nothing there consider that Stuckey would have helped get them that far and all trades are not the best outcome...it is Joe's job on the line this year...
*Stuckey will start as 6th man (Billups starting) and then at some point in the season KCP will switch minutes with Billups, but Stuckey will continue the same role.
*If KCP does not progress towards top 6 players by the end of the year, Joe D will consider signing Stuckey.

***I'd love for Stuckey to get back to how he played when Billups was here.  

It is interesting on how fans feel Billups will impact other players. Everyone seems to be thinking about Stuckey especially and how Billups will help him. My first thought when the signing of Billups was announced was GREAT! He will have a positive influence on all Piston players. There has been no team chemistry since he left the team. Everywhere he went he has done something good by just being on a team. While I respect everyone who is pulling for Stuckey to become a better player, perhaps the big reason why he has not performed as well since Billups left is because other players who played against him had done their homework before Piston games. The opposing coaches and the players assigned to Stuckey on defense knew in which way he was dangerous how to prevent him from impacting the game. That is the thing that Stuckey needs to overcome. He needs to develop something new in his offensive game to keep the defense honest. When things are going right on the offensive end for Stuckey, he then becomes a good defensive player as well. The other issue with Stuckey as been his foot and ankle problems. That can limit anyone and prevent the player from having confidence. So much of the game of basketball involves your confidence. There is no question in my mind that Rasheed and Billups will impact this new team so much that we fans will start forgetting all our old nightmares from the past 4 seasons. It appears that Joe Dumars is trying everything he can think of to change the culture. I just wish that Brandon Knight could have had the opportunity to play basketball with Billups this season. The cool thing about Billups and Rasheed is the fact that they know all the weaknesses of players on opposing teams. Those guys will get the players on the right page before games giving them little tips that will encourage better confidence on the defensive end. I suspect that Rasheed will have a great impact on Monroe as well as Drummond this season.

[Oracle]

Stones, I have to agree with your Stuckey position! If he can be the player we remember(or 3/4 of that player), I'll be really happy. Stuckey possesses physical qualities that no other guard on the roster has from the PG position, less so at the SG position.

But a productive Stuckey makes us that more dangerous! I also like your thoughts on trading him heading into the playoffs if he's doing well.

Predicting the Top 3 NBA Rookies at Every Position in 2013-14 is interesting in that Trey Burke is predicted to be the TOP PG of all rookies, but KCP can't even crack the top 3. Take a look - Predicting the Top 3 NBA Rookies at Every Position in 2013-14

[Go Stones!]

*Stuckey will come in like a champion.
*Billups will push Stuckey to being the best he can be....coach will also mentor him.
*It is his contract year (in his mind) so either he plays great and we resign him (and not Billups) or we trade him while his stock is high. Either way Joe D will cry tears over the decision. As an aside, if the Pistons are due to hit the Playoffs, Joe D will consider if he can trade Stuckey for someone to push us over the edge, but if there is nothing there consider that Stuckey would have helped get them that far and all trades are not the best outcome...it is Joe's job on the line this year...
*Stuckey will start as 6th man (Billups starting) and then at some point in the season KCP will switch minutes with Billups, but Stuckey will continue the same role.
*If KCP does not progress towards top 6 players by the end of the year, Joe D will consider signing Stuckey.

***I'd love for Stuckey to get back to how he played when Billups was here.

[Oracle]

No, these aren't the best analyst I ever heard, they're only decent, but they bring up some really great points.

DX will love it because in their analysis, the conclude that KCP has to start! Also some good stuff on Jennings & Smith, and a bit of an undressing of Joe!

It's long, 24 minutes, so you may have to take it in portions like I did.

NBA Podcast: 2013-14 Detroit Pistons Season Preview


@Wise - I was referring to you overlooking my facts, but I'm used to it by now

BTW, you'll love this as well, because they don't think Monroe fits!

[WTF]

When you post facts, you have to remember that it's all perspective, you don't have to refute or prove facts wrong, just make a pronouncement and you're done

This is exactly what I was thinking before I posted my response to Don  Thanks for the tip

[Oracle]

Posting that Jennings was slapped video!

I saw it the first time and didn't comment on it because it's silly stuff, like little school kids trying to start something!

It's the same silly stuff when a 7 foot player(dumbass Jordan) dunks on a 6'3 player(Knight), gee, what do you think is supposed to happen, there's no news there. The Kyrie Irving stuff was more applicable!

But with Jennings, I'm not sure why they want to start this stuff, it's stupid, IMO!

[Oracle]

When you post facts, you have to remember that it's all perspective, you don't have to refute or prove facts wrong, just make a pronouncement and you're done

[WTF]

I just wanted to correct one big thing.

"Now I understand you're still distraught over the trading of Knight but Knight was not the better of the two which is why Knight was traded and Stuckey is still here. You keep attempting to rewrite history on how Singler got to start in the first place. Singler didn't beat Stuckey out of his position Stuckey gave it to him come on." - Wise

1. You're correct about Singler, Stuckey did a preemptive strike because they were thinking that Singler would be better, which IMO, wasn't really the truth, but that never stopped Frank. So Stuckey stepped down. Singler was playing better at the time and he was draining 3 pointers regularly. But after Singler started stinking up the place, he never got replaced.

2. Here's the correction! You're 100% wrong about Knight! Knight was OBVIOUSLY the better of the two! Stuckey had absolutely NO value, and nobody with the title of GM was going to touch the inferior player. Knight had the value and was the centerpiece of the deal. The Bucks could have had Stuckey instead, but they're too smart for that!

I think this a matter of perspective concerning Knight and Stuckey.  The reason I'm saying this that Knight failed at the PG and this forced Joe into the Calderon trade, and for various reason Knight was ineffective as the SG.  Knight was only slightly better offensively than Stuckey was but the overall IMO Stuckey was simply better.  I'm sure the Bucks feel they got what was best suited for them but I don't think Joe offered up Stuckey to the Bucks.  

Then you should leave your perspective out of this and deal with the facts!

Fact 1: Stuckey has been on the block for what? About a year? A dude that represents the most valuable thing in the NBA... an expiring contract, and no takers??? So when the whole league passes on this dude, you simply have to be dreaming to think he has value. there's no logic that makes that work!

Fact 2: Stop guessing, the Bucks told you what and who they wanted, Joe doesn't offer, people TAKE in case you haven't been following this situation. The Bucks wanted Knight, plain and simple because they know that he's going to work out for them better than Jennings ever would! That doesn't mean Knight is better than Jennings, but it does mean that the fit is better for each organization, that's why it was a great deal! Stuckey would be the WORST guard for the Bucks and it doesn't take rocket science to see that.

BTW, it's hard to say Knight failed at PG when by the same measure Calderon was worse. The logical conclusion is that PG wasn't the problem when you swap out PG's and it gets worse, but your logic may vary!

While there are more profitable subjects to explore about our favorite team than rehashing these old arguments, I do understand that these things come up from time to time.

It all comes down to perspective it's inevitable

We are talking about pro basketball here Wisefan. Nobody gives anything to anyone when it comes to players who are competing against each other for their jobs. This is the most insane thing that I have read so far in this forum. Stuckey was asked by the coach to come off the bench which is always the way things are done in the NBA. The coach told the press that story so they wouldn't pick on Rodney. The coach is trying to keep the peace and keep the players in line especially Stuckey who has had problems with every coaching staff he has played for so far. Stuckey was not helping the team when he was playing a lot of minutes. Was he injured and the reason why Stuckey played so poorly before he became a bench guy? Perhaps this might be something I could believe rather than the foolish idea that a player comes up to the coach and says you know I believe this team would be much better if I came off the bench. Maybe Knight and Singler would be more effective as starters. No Wisefan that is not the way things happen. The coach could trust Knight and Singler more and believed they were better players and would do more positive things for the team than Stuckey. Too bad some fans can't go back and actually watch what was going on and have a coach watch with them to point out why Stuckey needed to go to the bench.

Now I have read that Stuckey is in the best shape of his life and has stated that he wants to be a different player this season. I hope this happens for him but I still like him a little less because he didn't say those same things 3 years ago. He didn't get himself in the best shape in his life when he had several seasons left in his contract. Now he is in the last year of his contract. So how can anyone believe that he is a loyal Piston who is the kind of player anyone should respect? This love for Stuckey thing where fans find a reason why he should be a key player is still much like the beautiful high school gals who fall for the scum suckers believing they can change their men into good husbands. To state that Stuckey has ever shown on the court that he was a better player than either Singler or Knight is a complete lie. Maybe you could say that if you look at one game or a few games but that is not the way you grade players. It all comes back to how consistent you were as a player and how you approached each game mentally and physically. What amazes me it that some fans didn't know that Stuckey really didn't care what happened to the Pistons last season. He wasn't invested in the team then but now he is?

After shooting 1 of 23 from the field in the first three games this season, Stuckey said he felt playing strictly at shooting guard when he needed to be more of a penetrator and playmaker was hampering his effectiveness.

Shortly thereafter, Stuckey missed a game in Philadelphia with illness and Kyle Singler stepped into the starting lineup. The Pistons got their first win that night, after a 0-8 start, after which Stuckey requested the change be made permanent. - Mlive

[cool breeze]

I just wanted to correct one big thing.

"Now I understand you're still distraught over the trading of Knight but Knight was not the better of the two which is why Knight was traded and Stuckey is still here. You keep attempting to rewrite history on how Singler got to start in the first place. Singler didn't beat Stuckey out of his position Stuckey gave it to him come on." - Wise

1. You're correct about Singler, Stuckey did a preemptive strike because they were thinking that Singler would be better, which IMO, wasn't really the truth, but that never stopped Frank. So Stuckey stepped down. Singler was playing better at the time and he was draining 3 pointers regularly. But after Singler started stinking up the place, he never got replaced.

2. Here's the correction! You're 100% wrong about Knight! Knight was OBVIOUSLY the better of the two! Stuckey had absolutely NO value, and nobody with the title of GM was going to touch the inferior player. Knight had the value and was the centerpiece of the deal. The Bucks could have had Stuckey instead, but they're too smart for that!

I think this a matter of perspective concerning Knight and Stuckey.  The reason I'm saying this that Knight failed at the PG and this forced Joe into the Calderon trade, and for various reason Knight was ineffective as the SG.  Knight was only slightly better offensively than Stuckey was but the overall IMO Stuckey was simply better.  I'm sure the Bucks feel they got what was best suited for them but I don't think Joe offered up Stuckey to the Bucks.  

Then you should leave your perspective out of this and deal with the facts!

Fact 1: Stuckey has been on the block for what? About a year? A dude that represents the most valuable thing in the NBA... an expiring contract, and no takers??? So when the whole league passes on this dude, you simply have to be dreaming to think he has value. there's no logic that makes that work!

Fact 2: Stop guessing, the Bucks told you what and who they wanted, Joe doesn't offer, people TAKE in case you haven't been following this situation. The Bucks wanted Knight, plain and simple because they know that he's going to work out for them better than Jennings ever would! That doesn't mean Knight is better than Jennings, but it does mean that the fit is better for each organization, that's why it was a great deal! Stuckey would be the WORST guard for the Bucks and it doesn't take rocket science to see that.

BTW, it's hard to say Knight failed at PG when by the same measure Calderon was worse. The logical conclusion is that PG wasn't the problem when you swap out PG's and it gets worse, but your logic may vary!

While there are more profitable subjects to explore about our favorite team than rehashing these old arguments, I do understand that these things come up from time to time.

It all comes down to perspective it's inevitable

We are talking about pro basketball here Wisefan. Nobody gives anything to anyone when it comes to players who are competing against each other for their jobs. This is the most insane thing that I have read so far in this forum. Stuckey was asked by the coach to come off the bench which is always the way things are done in the NBA. The coach told the press that story so they wouldn't pick on Rodney. The coach is trying to keep the peace and keep the players in line especially Stuckey who has had problems with every coaching staff he has played for so far. Stuckey was not helping the team when he was playing a lot of minutes. Was he injured and the reason why Stuckey played so poorly before he became a bench guy? Perhaps this might be something I could believe rather than the foolish idea that a player comes up to the coach and says you know I believe this team would be much better if I came off the bench. Maybe Knight and Singler would be more effective as starters. No Wisefan that is not the way things happen. The coach could trust Knight and Singler more and believed they were better players and would do more positive things for the team than Stuckey. Too bad some fans can't go back and actually watch what was going on and have a coach watch with them to point out why Stuckey needed to go to the bench.

Now I have read that Stuckey is in the best shape of his life and has stated that he wants to be a different player this season. I hope this happens for him but I still like him a little less because he didn't say those same things 3 years ago. He didn't get himself in the best shape in his life when he had several seasons left in his contract. Now he is in the last year of his contract. So how can anyone believe that he is a loyal Piston who is the kind of player anyone should respect? This love for Stuckey thing where fans find a reason why he should be a key player is still much like the beautiful high school gals who fall for the scum suckers believing they can change their men into good husbands. To state that Stuckey has ever shown on the court that he was a better player than either Singler or Knight is a complete lie. Maybe you could say that if you look at one game or a few games but that is not the way you grade players. It all comes back to how consistent you were as a player and how you approached each game mentally and physically. What amazes me it that some fans didn't know that Stuckey really didn't care what happened to the Pistons last season. He wasn't invested in the team then but now he is?

[WTF]

Stafford has to have the most crappiest mechanics for a QB in all the NFL. I love my Lions but that offense in the red zone has stunk all of preseason.  I'm sure it doesn't help not having Mega-Tron or Broyles but damn  

Maggette can hang that pipe dream up, better yet put down the pipe but anything possible.

WOW, I'm glad somebody else see that!

I overlooked his mechanics because it was early and when we were winning, everything was cool, but he seems to be getting worse!

And the red zone problems will only get worse if we don't get a big bruiser to pound the ball down there! When they know you're going to have to pass to get a score, defending is too easy!

Yeah Stafford was getting away quite a bit with that sidearm stuff he would throw but he seem to have no touch throwing down field. He simply missed wide open WR yesterday rushing his passes.

I thought Mikel was suppose to be that power runner? I think I only saw him once this preseason. The other issue I'm seeing in the 3 games so far is the DUMB ASS PENALTIES from the defensve line after making plays. That crap has to stop!

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