Oracle, I think you missed me by a country mile

[Oracle]

It looks like I did... sorry!

However, PLEASE don't assume that I'm making any arguments for Stuckey!

No player in recent memory has had the opportunity that Stuckey has had, and while I do think he has talent, he's been mostly bust here and I believe a change of scenery would do him a lot of good!

[deusXango]

Don, because I know that you've seen a LOT more than we have, I'm willing to take your word for Muhammad!

However, here is my problem! There's the top 5 in this draft and then there's everybody else! But in the top 5, there's no real positive order, so the #1 player is more than likely going to be determined by need, not a player you just can't pass on!

After that, I think you forget the order in the mocks and focus on need and using your best basketball sense of how your scouts feel about a player.

DX, I don't see another SG as a priority, I still think a solid PG is still what we need! IMO, Michael Carter-Williams(MCW) is the BEST pick for us unless we get lucky and move up!
I suggest that you take a look at Wise's post regarding Ray McCallum Jr.; for the record, I'm no longer a MCW booster simply because of his height. I saw a distinctive lack of leadership ability in the NCAA's. By the by, who's our SG going forward?

MCW is the 2nd best PG on the board, and is very large for a PG, and would make our starting unit a tough cover with its tremendous size.

Knight, MCW, some SF, Monroe, and Drummond. I don't see that lineup on day one, and it may not even make it until next season because IMO, we're going to get some vets added that will push a lot of youngsters to the 2nd unit, and that isn't a bad thing!

DX, I really think you need to change the way you think about our team. The way you've been thinking, it's almost useless to draft anyone!
Really?! That's news to me.

It takes 3 years for ANY player to get acclimated to a NBA position, and another 2 years to master it, however, you'll know after 3 years if they're worth keeping.
This sounds like a veiled cry to hold onto Stuckey for another year and allow him to gum up the works; I offer for your consideration Westbrook, Holiday, Walker, Collison, Wall, Conley, and the list goes on with PG's that have came into the league (and the Pistons should have drafted but for Stuckey) and began performing at a high level in their 2nd, 3rd year. We're going into Stuckey's 7th year, by the way!

Have you ever wondered why the contracts for rookies are structured the way they are? Because they know these truths, and if a player is really bad and you know it earlier, you can still do something about it!
Like we did with Delfino, Amir, and Afflalo? I got 'cha.

But it's silly to talk about moving players like Knight, who was directing this offense better than Calderon, a veteran(record wise), and putting up good numbers, before you get to see that 3rd year!
Apparently you didn't take the time to read my previous post (regarding Muhammad as our SG and 7th pick) where I clearly stated that I thought Knight would be a great starting PG with Muhammad in the backcourt with him, and a frontline of Drummond, Monroe, and Middleton. I look at the team and see some potential but, then I don't see things through the eyes of Lil' Larry.

Next year we'll know a lot more, and we have a lot of options with Knight precisely because he is a good player, and if he doesn't fit, we trade him for that reason because it makes sense and retains his value! Other teams understand that, but if you're going to keep having these fire sales, people think something's wrong and you end up losing!
I've also clearly stated recently that my feeling is that Knight has surpassed Stuckey as a player, who trading him now seems to be an after fire sale! Again, I'd only trade Knight if it meant we could draft Burke who I feel is a better PG coming in, and a better team fit.

[Murph]

Can anyone identify who came up with this idea that Joe Dumars was against hiring Larry Frank? Was this rumor spread by Vincent Goodwill? It just doesn't make any sense. I could see Mr. Gores ignoring Dumars this time around and trying to make sure another blunder with the coaching selection is not made based on the empty seats and the team's performance this past season. But Gores made it clear two years ago that he had full confidence in Joe Dumars and it would be Joe calling all the shots regarding basketball operations. Gores and his crew were busy renovating the Palace and trying to figure out entertainment options for halftime and the time outs. This "It's not my fault" rumor about Joe not being on board with Frank's hiring cannot be true. It just doesn't fly that Gores would tell no to his coaching choice and say that he will have to live with Larry Frank because Gores insisted on that hire. No way that would have happened sports fans. The Larry Frank hire had to be Joe's doing all along. Common sense prevails here. Would anyone in their right mind believe that Larry Frank would draw more season ticket holders or bring in more fans at all? No Gores did not force Joe to hire Larry. That is pure nonsense. What the owner is worried about now is that Dumars might bungle this thing again like he has done three times in a row. Mistakes become expensive. That is why Phil is doing Gores a favor. Gores has lost confidence in Mr. Dumars....

Don...according to Marc Stein at ESPN, and the boys at Pistons Powered, Lawrence Frank really was Gores' choice, while Dumars wanted Mike Woodson.

http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/07/joe-dumars-likes-mike-woodson-tom-gores-and-dave-checketts-like-lawrence-frank-in-pistons-coaching-search/


And while you're reading the article by Dan Feldman, please read the comments by yours truly:

"Anyone but Lawrence Frank. He’s a disaster waiting to happen. Frank took over a NJ Nets team that had just gone to the NBA Finals two years in a row. But after he took over the Head Coaching job, the Nets got worse, almost every single year. Finally, Frank was fired, after the Nets started the 09-10 season with 16 losses in a row, only a couple of losses shy of an NBA record.

One upside to hiring Frank is that it would insulate Dumars from taking any blame, when Frank fails, since Frank would be Gores’ choice, and not Dumars’.

Another upside would be that Frank would get fired after two year, at which point, the Pistons might actually give Bill Laimbeer a shot…but I’m not holding my breath on that one."

Murph 7/14/11

I'll pat myself on the back for that comment. (I was right about eveything except Bill Laimbeer, of course.)

Also, in typical fashion, Patrick Hayes was ripping into me in the comment section, when he clearly didn't know WTF he was talking about. I'm so glad Patrick Hayes has all but stopped poluting that web site with his drivel. Has there ever been a less informed Detroit sports writter than Patrick Hayes?

[WTF]

Wise, it's all your fault!!! You came on here screaming about Burke when nobody knew he had any skills!

You raise our hopes that we might get him in the draft, then......... BOOM!

Burke blows up, and now we don't stand a snowballs chance in hell of getting him! Cast your jaundiced peepers on this!

Yeah I might have curse us on this Burke thing but there is a back up plan. Because the 2nd best PG in college went highly un-noticed this season and he's right here at the UDM. Ray MacCallum Jr. Is a beast and we could have him in the 2nd if other teams are slipping. Look him up and see for yourself what this kid was the past 2 seasons, a lot of local fan thought this kid was better than Burke.

I know I've mention him a few times Not as much as Burke though. His assist totals aren't as much as Burke but this kid can carry a team much in the way Burke did at Michigan. The heated discussion at the gym was always Burke, Ray and Keith Appling and who was the best. Ray was always mention as the best or a very close 2nd to Burke.

[Oracle]

Don, because I know that you've seen a LOT more than we have, I'm willing to take your word for Muhammad!

However, here is my problem! There's the top 5 in this draft and then there's everybody else! But in the top 5, there's no real positive order, so the #1 player is more than likely going to be determined by need, not a player you just can't pass on!

After that, I think you forget the order in the mocks and focus on need and using your best basketball sense of how your scouts feel about a player.

DX, I don't see another SG as a priority, I still think a solid PG is still what we need! IMO, Michael Carter-Williams(MCW) is the BEST pick for us unless we get lucky and move up!

MCW is the 2nd best PG on the board, and is very large for a PG, and would make our starting unit a tough cover with its tremendous size.

Knight, MCW, some SF, Monroe, and Drummond. I don't see that lineup on day one, and it may not even make it until next season because IMO, we're going to get some vets added that will push a lot of youngsters to the 2nd unit, and that isn't a bad thing!

DX, I really think you need to change the way you think about our team. The way you've been thinking, it's almost useless to draft anyone!

It takes 3 years for ANY player to get acclimated to a NBA position, and another 2 years to master it, however, you'll know after 3 years if they're worth keeping.

Have you ever wondered why the contracts for rookies are structured the way they are? Because they know these truths, and if a player is really bad and you know it earlier, you can still do something about it!

But it's silly to talk about moving players like Knight, who was directing this offense better than Calderon, a veteran(record wise), and putting up good numbers, before you get to see that 3rd year!

Next year we'll know a lot more, and we have a lot of options with Knight precisely because he is a good player, and if he doesn't fit, we trade him for that reason because it makes sense and retains his value! Other teams understand that, but if you're going to keep having these fire sales, people think something's wrong and you end up losing!

[deusXango]

Don, our man from the desert, I appreciate your actual eye ball analysis and you know I trust your assessments, so I feel a lot better about the idea of Muhammad being the Pistons only first round pick. I don't think that Joe's daring enough to even try and pull off the things I suggested in my last post, so life without Trey Burke could be made easier with Shabazz Muhammad is what I hear you saying?

I'm willing to give a new coaching mindset the benefit of the doubt with the infusion of Muhammad into the rebuilding efforts of the Pistons, only if he's utilized as a SG! I'd like to see Middleton get his shot at SF next year playing on the frontline with Monroe and Drummond; I guess that means the starting backcourt should be Knight and Muhammad....not too shabby for a starting five and they just might jell, with the correct coaching.

[cool breeze]

The only way I might change my mind about Mr. Muhammad would be if the talking heads change their minds about him being a SF; I'm sooo damn tired of undersized players that I don't know what to do!! Andrew Bennett is another undersized "tweener" that I'm not high on; these players are dark reminders of Joe's F#@ked up player assessment of days past.

It never made any sense to me to be on this mad ass search for players who could play multiple positions when the Pistons didn't have anyone who excelled, naturally, at one position. The bottom line is we were always waiting for this magical transformation to take place, instead of just drafting a player who was already developed from AAU to play that desired position; we waited for Stuckey to become a PG, now we're waiting on Knight to become a PG (both were tried at SG and found wanting there also), I'm tired of waiting!!

Now that my blood is up, I'm back to trading Knight to Orlando for their 1st round pick, if we don't move waay up in the draft, and draft Burke; he's not the biggest gamble this franchise has taken! I'm for trading those two 2nd round picks and Jerebko for a mid 1st found pick and drafting a big man with a definite position (no more hybrid forwards); PF or center, it doesn't matter as long as he's the BPA! Big men are the strength of the team and it's not too soon to start developing that big man rotation, using quality bigs. I hope that someway, somehow Joe finds the balls to trade Stuckey and maybe end up with Shabazz Muhammad in the deal; Burke and Muhammad is a backcourt that I can get behind and pull for, and I think they'd renew the interest in LIVE basketball played at the Palace.

dX when I first saw Muhammad in person this past season, he was everything people had been saying about him. He is strong and makes few mistakes and he crushed Arizona at Arizona. Nobody could guard him. Nick Johnson is one of the top defensive guards in college basketball and can usually shut down any guard in the college game on the Arizona squad. He couldn't guard Muhammad because of his strength and size. So Sean Miller put Solomon Hill on Muhammad. Hill is a outstanding defender as well and has the size and strength to defend a player of Muhammad's size. So Muhammad stopped driving and started hitting outside shots. I can't recall that he missed and UCLA blew out Arizona thanks to Muhammad. Later in the season Muhammad seemed upset with his role on the team. He didn't seem like the same player he had been earlier. However, that didn't mean that he was not very effective. He makes things look easy so people can mistake that for thinking Muhammad is lazy. I believe that Muhammad is a sleeper in this draft. He was the MVP in the McDonalds All Star game if you recall. I want Detroit to draft Zeller as you know. But the Pistons could not go wrong by drafting Muhammad who would play shooting guard for Detroit not small forward. I don't believe that Muhammad doesn't have enough quickness to play the 2 guard. He is really quick and a smart basketball player.

[cool breeze]

Phil Jackson wants Joe's job, but not right now! He has a plan, and it may go something like this!

Step 1: Launch a coaching search that lands him as coach, with Shaw as his assistant and heir in one season when he moves to the front office.

Step 2: You know Phil ain't sh!t without a superstar, so he lets the Lakers amnesty Kobe, and we pick him up for the last two good seasons he hopefully has left in the tank!

Step 3: With Kobe & Phil in tow, all of a sudden Detroit is a hot spot for players, and we are able to recruit some super role players just after Phil & Stern rig the draft for us

Step 4: There ain't no step 4, we just go into next season, make the playoffs and go as far as Kobe and our bigs will carry us!

You may be on to something Oracle. If Jackson was just doing a favor at no cost to his friend Mr. Gores, why would this be fed to the press at all. Why would anyone need to know that Phil might take a look at Detroit players and suggest a good coaching fit? There must be something more in store for us Piston fans.

[deusXango]

The only way I might change my mind about Mr. Muhammad would be if the talking heads change their minds about him being a SF; I'm sooo damn tired of undersized players that I don't know what to do!! Andrew Bennett is another undersized "tweener" that I'm not high on; these players are dark reminders of Joe's F#@ked up player assessment of days past.

It never made any sense to me to be on this mad ass search for players who could play multiple positions when the Pistons didn't have anyone who excelled, naturally, at one position. The bottom line is we were always waiting for this magical transformation to take place, instead of just drafting a player who was already developed from AAU to play that desired position; we waited for Stuckey to become a PG, now we're waiting on Knight to become a PG (both were tried at SG and found wanting there also), I'm tired of waiting!!

Now that my blood is up, I'm back to trading Knight to Orlando for their 1st round pick, if we don't move waay up in the draft, and draft Burke; he's not the biggest gamble this franchise has taken! I'm for trading those two 2nd round picks and Jerebko for a mid 1st found pick and drafting a big man with a definite position (no more hybrid forwards); PF or center, it doesn't matter as long as he's the BPA! Big men are the strength of the team and it's not too soon to start developing that big man rotation, using quality bigs. I hope that someway, somehow Joe finds the balls to trade Stuckey and maybe end up with Shabazz Muhammad in the deal; Burke and Muhammad is a backcourt that I can get behind and pull for, and I think they'd renew the interest in LIVE basketball played at the Palace.

[Oracle]

Phil Jackson wants Joe's job, but not right now! He has a plan, and it may go something like this!

Step 1: Launch a coaching search that lands him as coach, with Shaw as his assistant and heir in one season when he moves to the front office.

Step 2: You know Phil ain't sh!t without a superstar, so he lets the Lakers amnesty Kobe, and we pick him up for the last two good seasons he hopefully has left in the tank!

Step 3: With Kobe & Phil in tow, all of a sudden Detroit is a hot spot for players, and we are able to recruit some super role players just after Phil & Stern rig the draft for us

Step 4: There ain't no step 4, we just go into next season, make the playoffs and go as far as Kobe and our bigs will carry us!

[deusXango]

"I think Trey Burke is still rising," wrote Ford. "Could go as high as the No. 1 pick. Lots of scenarios where he is No. 2 or No. 3 off the board. PGs are always coveted and Burke's spectacular season continues to intrigue people."
-Chad Ford

This is true everywhere but in Detroit; we're lovers of "combo guards!" Think about how many local basketball fans have been poking holes in Trey Burkes game for the last three months but, every scenario for next year has Knight and Stuckey included in them and playing prominent roles.

There have been postings by fans that have said, emphatically, they were not willing to move up a couple of spots to draft Burke, but he may go #1!! A couple of spots may well be #5 or #6; I understand why local heroes can't get an opportunity here (Laimbeer, Isaiah, Mahorn)....the local fans know better than the masses.

Shabazz Muhammad, I ain't feeling. Period! Oracle, you're absolutely correct; Rodney Stuckey 2.0!!!!!

[Oracle]

@Don & @Stones - Don, you said,

"You are on to something here that I have been worried about. I see no value in retaining the services of Calderon. The team did not improve at all. Calderon is a good offensive player but does not stand out on defense in fact he is another liability regarding defense." - Don

I totally agree, we need to let Calderon walk! I will miss his great 3pt shooting and assists, but I feel that Knight will be getting good enough to fill the gap, and frankly, between the passing of Knight & Monroe, the assists per game, team wise, will be above NBA levels anyway.

Phil Jackson - Well, the truth is abundantly clear! Jackson likely to recommend Shaw as the next coach! Don't make me laugh Gores, that's not a coaching search, it's a coronation!

Muhammad? Really?

"Weaknesses: Has improved his jumpshot but still needs some work to become more automatic ... Relies too much on his strength ... Needs to look to impact the game in other areas besides scoring ... Too left hand dominant, ball tends to stop when it gets in his hands ... Not a great creator for teammates ... Can lose focus sometimes if not involved enough offensively ... Handle needs to tighten up. Not great at creating shots off the dribble ... Prone to offensive fouls, needs to continue to round out his overall game" - NBADraft.Net

Does that sound like Stuckey?

[cool breeze]

I am sure most of you think that I am crazy but this guy has been on my mind for a long time since watching him in person during his one and only college season playing for Washington. Tony is 6 foot 6 inches tall and is a fantastic defender and he plays point guard. You might have seen him play off the bench for Memphis in the last two playoff series. When he played that freshman season for Washington, I couldn't take my eyes off him because he was so damn quick and smart with his anticipation on defense. He is only 20 years old and most fans thought he would be a bust in the NBA because he left too early. While so many Piston fans want the big name players, I believe that whoever is signed if anyone, the Pistons will need at least two more years to become a powerful NBA team that is if they keep the core players, Knight, Monroe and Drummond. Imagine Tony coming in off the bench to shut down a high scoring opposing guard. We don't have that kind of player right now. Some would like to see Tony Allen but he is getting up there in age. Why not bring in this stud guy who has the potential to be anything he wants to be because he has the gift of being a step faster and much stronger than the average NBA guard. It is obvious that the coaching staff has some respect for him or he would not be getting any playing time with his offensive skills still under development. We have no guard who can play defense anywhere near the level of this man. And few people even know that he exists. This is the type of player Detroit should be looking at to build a champion. I guarantee he would change the look of this team and he would be a fan favorite because Piston fans love hard core defenders.

[cool breeze]

Can anyone identify who came up with this idea that Joe Dumars was against hiring Larry Frank? Was this rumor spread by Vincent Goodwill? It just doesn't make any sense. I could see Mr. Gores ignoring Dumars this time around and trying to make sure another blunder with the coaching selection is not made based on the empty seats and the team's performance this past season. But Gores made it clear two years ago that he had full confidence in Joe Dumars and it would be Joe calling all the shots regarding basketball operations. Gores and his crew were busy renovating the Palace and trying to figure out entertainment options for halftime and the time outs. This "It's not my fault" rumor about Joe not being on board with Frank's hiring cannot be true. It just doesn't fly that Gores would tell no to his coaching choice and say that he will have to live with Larry Frank because Gores insisted on that hire. No way that would have happened sports fans. The Larry Frank hire had to be Joe's doing all along. Common sense prevails here. Would anyone in their right mind believe that Larry Frank would draw more season ticket holders or bring in more fans at all? No Gores did not force Joe to hire Larry. That is pure nonsense. What the owner is worried about now is that Dumars might bungle this thing again like he has done three times in a row. Mistakes become expensive. That is why Phil is doing Gores a favor. Gores has lost confidence in Mr. Dumars. The owners is most likely tired of being ribbed by his friends about how soft this Piston team has become. His buddies keep asking why in hell are you paying Stuckey and Charlie V so much money? And why have the Pistons insisted on starting Maxiell at power forward when Detroit plays against the teams with real power forwards and centers? And why did the Pistons have to give away a first round pick just to dump one of Joe's free agent picks? Gores is tired of saying that his President ,Joe Dumars, is responsible for making all the decisions relating to basketball operations for the Pistons. Joe is on the hot seat! The owner is finally wondering the same things we Piston fans who write on this forum wonder about. Why has Joe Dumars made so many basic mistakes with player and coaching selection? Why did Joe go after weak defensive players that Piston fans cannot identify with? We are used to tough minded hard nosed basketball players Joe. You have been the one who changed that. Is there any wonder that few people in Detroit even follow the Pistons anymore?

[cool breeze]

Many times, Joe D will trade for a player with an expiring contract and then resign them. My money, if I would be a betting man, is that Calderon is going to be resigned. Here are some similar examples as seen below:

February 22 2001
Traded forward Jerome Williams and center Eric Montross to the Toronto Raptors for forwards Corliss Williamson, Tyrone Corbin and Kornel David and a future first-round pick.

July 24 2001
Re-signed free agent forward Corliss Williamson to a multi-year contract

September 11 2002
Traded guard Jerry Stackhouse, forward Brian Cardinal and center Ratko Varda to the Washington Wizards for guards Richard Hamilton and Hubert Davis and forward Bobby Simmons.

June 30 2003
Tendered a qualifying offer to guard Richard Hamilton.

August 12 2003
Re-signed guard Richard Hamilton.

February 19 2004
Traded guards Chucky Atkins and Lindsey Hunter, a first-round pick and cash to the Boston Celtics and guard Bob Sura and center Zeljko Rebraca to the Atlanta Hawks for Mike James from the Boston Celtics and forward Rasheed Wallace from the Atlanta Hawks.

July 23 2004
Re-signed forward Rasheed Wallace and named Gar Heard, Phil Ford and Pat Sullivan assistant coaches.

August 28 2003
Traded forward Michael Curry to the Toronto Raptors for guard Lindsey Hunter.

August 13 2004
Re-signed guard Lindsey Hunter.

Great memory! You are on to something here that I have been worried about. I see no value in retaining the services of Calderon. The team did not improve at all. Calderon is a good offensive player but does not stand out on defense in fact he is another liability regarding defense. Does Dumars believe that a new coaching staff will improve Calderon, Charlie V, Bynum and others relating to their inability to guard anyone? This must have been his thinking before he signed Charlie and Ben Gordon. Well, Joe you are dead wrong and this stupid idea will get you fired. In fact will Joe agree to pay Calderon so much money that he will not be able to refuse? I can't believe that Calderon would want to remain in Detroit if he has any other options. So maybe Joe will make another stupid deal.

[Oracle]

Wise, it's all your fault!!! You came on here screaming about Burke when nobody knew he had any skills!

You raise our hopes that we might get him in the draft, then......... BOOM!

Burke blows up, and now we don't stand a snowballs chance in hell of getting him! Cast your jaundiced peepers on this!

Trey Burke Rising On Draft Boards, Could Go No. 1

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From the sublime to the ridiculous: - Source: Phil Jackson Open To Coaching If He Has Influence On Roster

Joe, you may be in trouble...

[Go Stones!]

Many times, Joe D will trade for a player with an expiring contract and then resign them. My money, if I would be a betting man, is that Calderon is going to be resigned. Here are some similar examples as seen below:

February 22 2001
Traded forward Jerome Williams and center Eric Montross to the Toronto Raptors for forwards Corliss Williamson, Tyrone Corbin and Kornel David and a future first-round pick.

July 24 2001
Re-signed free agent forward Corliss Williamson to a multi-year contract

September 11 2002
Traded guard Jerry Stackhouse, forward Brian Cardinal and center Ratko Varda to the Washington Wizards for guards Richard Hamilton and Hubert Davis and forward Bobby Simmons.

June 30 2003
Tendered a qualifying offer to guard Richard Hamilton.

August 12 2003
Re-signed guard Richard Hamilton.

February 19 2004
Traded guards Chucky Atkins and Lindsey Hunter, a first-round pick and cash to the Boston Celtics and guard Bob Sura and center Zeljko Rebraca to the Atlanta Hawks for Mike James from the Boston Celtics and forward Rasheed Wallace from the Atlanta Hawks.

July 23 2004
Re-signed forward Rasheed Wallace and named Gar Heard, Phil Ford and Pat Sullivan assistant coaches.

August 28 2003
Traded forward Michael Curry to the Toronto Raptors for guard Lindsey Hunter.

August 13 2004
Re-signed guard Lindsey Hunter.

[deusXango]

Thanks Sebastian; as much as I don't particularly care for Phil Jackson (that crying sh!t about the "Jordon Rules" back in the day), I'd welcome him as the Pistons next GM. Sure he's not a Piston but, Dumars has already set the standard that it's not necessary to be a Piston to be a part of this franchise. What the Pistons organization need is a thinker in the front office and it seems to be missing out on one now.

[Sebastian]

Joe better watch his back. I believe that Gores is working on moving out Joe and moving in Phil.

From Realgm.com:

Phil Jackson has informed the Brooklyn Nets that he is uninterested in discussing their head coaching position, according to a source.

Jackson is seeking a broad management role with an NBA team.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/227565/Phil-Jackson-Uninterested-In-Nets-Position

[cool breeze]

Don, if Knight can pick up weight and add muscle, so can Burke. Being big, strong, and fast doesn't make a PG; Burke is a PG, Knight is a combo!! To answer your question, yes I think Burke can cut it, once he grows fully into his body, like Knight is doing.

I'm not flat out sold on the idea that Knight must go because he can't play, it's just the opposite. He has enough talent that Orlando would be foolish to turn him down (along with our #7-8 pick for their #2-4) so we could draft Trey Burke. You've got to give up something of value to receive something of equal value; it's a win-win situation for both franchise's and is nowhere near as impractical as the deal Dumars did to rid the Pistons of Gordon's contract. If the Pistons got lucky and moved up in the draft, then I'm all for keeping Knight; I'd rather have Knight on my team than Stuckey, as I believe he's already surpassed Stuckey as a player.

I'm not a fan of Shabazz Mohammad and the only big man project that I'm interested in is slated to go mid to late first round (Dario Saric); if Joe could work a deal with Stuckey and some money to acquire the rights for Saric, I'd be overjoyed!! Stuck with the #7-8th pick, I don't know what to do other than pray.

dX maybe you are right about a lot of things. I simply have bonded with Knight as a Piston and want to see how his career turns out and being that I watch all of the Piston games, it will be difficult to follow him if he is on another team. Burke is a special player for sure. But I thought the same thing about Jimmer Fredette. In Fredette's last two seasons I watched him in person and thought he was one of the best guards that I have ever seen play the game. He scored over 50 points without much of an effort playing in his junior season away from his home court at McHale Center at the U of Arizona. He sat out much of the second half of that game. Now to see him struggle makes me think that my crystal ball has failed me regarding my ability to predict a winner. Before Knight was drafted I really had a difficult time watching the Piston games. I didn't really like any of the players with the exception of Prince. Now we have this exciting young player in Knight and I hate the thought of him playing on another team. My viewpoint is simply emotional and maybe not logical but that is what makes basketball so unpredictable and exciting. I have never enjoyed watching Josh Smith because he doesn't seem to play very smart at times especially in the 4th quarter but Smith sure is talented and would improve defense in the paint. Will I enjoy watching him play for the Pistons? Maybe I would love him. Still, I keep hoping that Detroit will land a guy like Noah in the draft some day. He plays so hard and is so damn smart. Now if only you would say somehow we could trade Stuckey and move up to get Burke. Stuckey must be liked by some GM out there isn't he???? Is it a fact that no team wants him? Maybe that is the truth and there is no way we can dump him and Stuckey and Charlie V will be with us for another season. I dread that thought. And you mentioned signing Bynum again. I can't agree with that one dX. Bynum is not Nate Robinson and never will be that type of player. He is a liability on defense and will destroy an offense because he is a one man team on offense other than the occasional lob pass to Drummond. Why in hell didn't Joe sign Hinrich way back when? Players like Hinrich help create winning teams.

[cool breeze]

@Stones - They keep saying he's coming to town and will quickly leave... so WTF can he possible contribute in that short a time.

Does Phil Jackson just come in, squat over a pot and fertilize some mushrooms?

Why is there no press availability for either him or Joe, what are they doing in the dark... is Jason Collins involved?

Inquiring minds gots to know!!!!

Oracle Jason Collins is involved in this top secret fly in by Phil. Collins never liked the Bad Boys at all when he was growing up. He met Zeke and Laimbeer at a basketball function several years ago and wanted to tell them they needed to get into the 12 step program relating to anger issues they had about Gay rights. Jason has no grudge against Jpe Dumars who is politically correct at all times. In fact it was Joe who invited Jason for this 3 way meeting. Of course the selected two sub owners Mr. Gores hand picked for this meeting will observe everything and report back to Gores who is at a party in LA. Nothing to worry about Oracle. This team is in good hands.

[Oracle]

@Stones - They keep saying he's coming to town and will quickly leave... so WTF can he possible contribute in that short a time.

Does Phil Jackson just come in, squat over a pot and fertilize some mushrooms?

Why is there no press availability for either him or Joe, what are they doing in the dark... is Jason Collins involved?

Inquiring minds gots to know!!!!

[Oracle]

If Gores were smart he would not need Jackson's advice. What single thing would draw fans back to the Palace? Yes you guessed it. ISIAH THOMAS is the man the City of Detroit would fall in love with all over again. Fans would buy tickets just to see him on the sidelines. And my bet is that he would bring in a great group of assistants to teach the young players. His emotion would stimulate the players and bring the best out of them. Thomas just hasn't found the right fit and the right fit right now in in Detroit. I would take him as GM or head coach or both.

Cool Breeze, I have said what you stated many times before, both here and at that other, sometimes frustrating Pistons discussion board - PistonPowered.

Zeke would make a real difference with both B. Knight and Stuckey.

And, he (Isiah) would return hope and promise and the fans back to the Palace and to OUR Pistons.

And, the guy still loves the Pistons, too.

Nuff said!!!

[Sebastian]

If Gores were smart he would not need Jackson's advice. What single thing would draw fans back to the Palace? Yes you guessed it. ISIAH THOMAS is the man the City of Detroit would fall in love with all over again. Fans would buy tickets just to see him on the sidelines. And my bet is that he would bring in a great group of assistants to teach the young players. His emotion would stimulate the players and bring the best out of them. Thomas just hasn't found the right fit and the right fit right now in in Detroit. I would take him as GM or head coach or both.

Cool Breeze, I have said what you stated many times before, both here and at that other, sometimes frustrating Pistons discussion board - PistonPowered.

Zeke would make a real difference with both B. Knight and Stuckey.

And, he (Isiah) would return hope and promise and the fans back to the Palace and to OUR Pistons.

And, the guy still loves the Pistons, too.

[cool breeze]

If Gores were smart he would not need Jackson's advice. What single thing would draw fans back to the Palace? Yes you guessed it. ISIAH THOMAS is the man the City of Detroit would fall in love with all over again. Fans would buy tickets just to see him on the sidelines. And my bet is that he would bring in a great group of assistants to teach the young players. His emotion would stimulate the players and bring the best out of them. Thomas just hasn't found the right fit and the right fit right now in in Detroit. I would take him as GM or head coach or both.

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