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Oracle

Post  WTF on Sat May 11, 2013 7:04 am

As proof Don showed that having the 2nd best PG in the league running the team produced no measurable improvement with the exact same players demonstrates that the problem isn't Knight! - Oracle

I guess that depends on the perspective one is looking at and I should have been more clear on what I've meant. I'm not equating Knight's play with the success of the team because as you know I am one those posters that said it wouldn't have matter who we had as a coach the results would have been the same.

The things I just criticized Knight on were all the things individually I find questionable about his game that he needs to improve. Regardless to who's on the court his leadership abilities should be clear to see in his actions and demeanor. His ball handling skills are his own issues and so is his poor decision making. These things are not a result of the players around him, but they do adversely impact the player around him. Mainly his inability to run an offense so I have to disagree with the both of you on this.

I also wouldn't use CP3 or Calderon as a measure because I think both as talented as they are lack leadership as well. Give this same roster to a younger Kidd, Miller or CB and their leadership alone would give the team at least 10 more wins because they'll take the CV's and Max's and so on and make them better players just by leading them.
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Don

Post  Oracle on Sat May 11, 2013 6:58 am

cool breeze wrote:Dumars has been quoted as saying his staff has been preparing for potential draftees to visit their facility. Is it Joe's preference to go ahead and select players from the draft board before selecting his coach? If a new coach is selected before the draft, will that coach have any power to offer suggestions relating to who he might want?

My final question of the night might not be easy to answer. Is it true that Joe Dumars, Phil Jackson and Jason Collins are spending the weekend sharing a room at the Grand Hotel on Mackinaw Island? My brother lives in the general area and I have asked him to investigate this rumor. Phil likes the cold weather and isolation. It is unlikely that the Grand Hotel is open to the public at this time so what better place to have peace and quiet yet be able to determine what direction the Pistons might go? Phil will lead a chanting Zen opportunity each morning and submit abstract messages to help Joe lose unwanted weight which will enable him to function without pain next season. Medication for pain caused Joe to not argue with Mr. Gores about the hiring of Frank the last time around. Phil will help Joe stand up for his rights when he is around this strong minded owner who will continue to party in LA this weekend. Does Mr. Gores worry about how a JD Powers survey about the fan support might come out? Will he base everything on that Survey? So many questions and no answers from our Detroit News reporters.

That Collins Cat keeps popping up all over the place!

What's next? Singing show tunes for Gores at halftime?

Is there a vacancy on the Pistons cheerleader squad?

Forget JD Powers, Collins is auditioning to be one of the Power Puff Girls, or maybe Squidward's boyfriend in the next episode of SpongeBob!
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Very Interesting!

Post  Oracle on Sat May 11, 2013 6:52 am

WISEFAN wrote:
merc wrote:Put me down for NO to Monroe out Josh Smith in... Smith plays like a knucklehead... poor shot selection... we have to factor in upside,& contract & team play... the new CBA will be in our favor for re-signing GM in a year.
Don't get me wrong I would deal Monroe for the right player just not seeing Josh Smith as a big improvement (as Monroe sets up Dre with another great pass!)
What this team needs at the big man position is a player like Dice... he would be the perfect compliment to Dre & GM.
For now let's focus on the perimeter.

Monroe makes more knucklehead plays than Smith does and not nearly the defender Smith is. A few of us have already stated this about Smith in that he's spent the better part of his career playing out of position he's a natural SF. Also as Oracle just noted a lot of what Smith problem is environment, and coaching.

I'm not against trading Moose either but it's depending on what else Joe could comes up with I wouldn't object to trading Smith for Monroe. What I would object to is trading for Smith and playing him at PF like the Hawks did when he's a natural SF.

One of my biggest trade and free agency scenario's have been Joe working a trade with Miami for Bosh to replace Monroe, and signing Smith as a free agent to play SF giving the Pistons a Smith, Bosh, and Drummond front-court and Joe has the resources to do this even if it meant giving max money to Smith. This is the Bold type of move I've been referring to.

Smith, Bosh, and Drummond? Hummmmmmmmmmmmmm!

While I like it, I have to say I'm attached to Monroe, whose future I think is brighter than you think!

I'd still trade him, but I won't like it!

Just like with Burke! If we got Burke and he worked out, it would be hard to keep two PG capable of starting, and neither of which can effectively play SG!

We would be forced to trade the one with the smaller upside at the PG position, and projections show that it would be Knight that would have to go!

Again, I wouldn't like it at all, but no player is bigger than the franchise, IMO!
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Wise

Post  Oracle on Sat May 11, 2013 6:45 am

WISEFAN wrote:@cool, No one is responsible for Knight's poor play but Knight it doesn't matter how crappy the combination of Max and Moose were it had nothing to with Knight's issue on the court. Stop finding excuses for his poor play.

There are major flaws in his game that has nothing to do with the players surrounding him, it start with him not being able to function as a leader in a leadership positions. PG's make players around him better it's not the other way around. His decision making on the court is poor, he has average ball handling skills and he can run a half-court offense. These are Knight issues alone.



What you say isn't right either, but you're missing the point!

Compare Knight running the team against Calderon running the team! It's that simple, RESULTS mater, and that's where the truth lies!

There isn't a player in the NBA that doesn't have flaws in their game, and no players 5 years or experience or less that doesn't have gaping holes!

Pointing out that Knight needs to work on some areas of his game is fair, he does have issues separate from the players he's playing with, however to suggest that who he plays with has no effect isn't logical.

As proof Don showed that having the 2nd best PG in the league running the team produced no measurable improvement with the exact same players demonstrates that the problem isn't Knight!
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It's How Joe Would Go About It

Post  WTF on Sat May 11, 2013 5:46 am

merc wrote:Put me down for NO to Monroe out Josh Smith in... Smith plays like a knucklehead... poor shot selection... we have to factor in upside,& contract & team play... the new CBA will be in our favor for re-signing GM in a year.
Don't get me wrong I would deal Monroe for the right player just not seeing Josh Smith as a big improvement (as Monroe sets up Dre with another great pass!)
What this team needs at the big man position is a player like Dice... he would be the perfect compliment to Dre & GM.
For now let's focus on the perimeter.

Monroe makes more knucklehead plays than Smith does and not nearly the defender Smith is. A few of us have already stated this about Smith in that he's spent the better part of his career playing out of position he's a natural SF. Also as Oracle just noted a lot of what Smith problem is environment, and coaching.

I'm not against trading Moose either but it's depending on what else Joe could comes up with I wouldn't object to trading Smith for Monroe. What I would object to is trading for Smith and playing him at PF like the Hawks did when he's a natural SF.

One of my biggest trade and free agency scenario's have been Joe working a trade with Miami for Bosh to replace Monroe, and signing Smith as a free agent to play SF giving the Pistons a Smith, Bosh, and Drummond front-court and Joe has the resources to do this even if it meant giving max money to Smith. This is the Bold type of move I've been referring to.
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@Cool

Post  WTF on Sat May 11, 2013 5:26 am

@cool, No one is responsible for Knight's poor play but Knight it doesn't matter how crappy the combination of Max and Moose were it had nothing to with Knight's issue on the court. Stop finding excuses for his poor play.

There are major flaws in his game that has nothing to do with the players surrounding him, it start with him not being able to function as a leader in a leadership positions. PG's make players around him better it's not the other way around. His decision making on the court is poor, he has average ball handling skills and he can run a half-court offense. These are Knight issues alone.


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Will the Pistons name a coach before the NBA draft???

Post  cool breeze on Fri May 10, 2013 11:42 pm

Dumars has been quoted as saying his staff has been preparing for potential draftees to visit their facility. Is it Joe's preference to go ahead and select players from the draft board before selecting his coach? If a new coach is selected before the draft, will that coach have any power to offer suggestions relating to who he might want?

My final question of the night might not be easy to answer. Is it true that Joe Dumars, Phil Jackson and Jason Collins are spending the weekend sharing a room at the Grand Hotel on Mackinaw Island? My brother lives in the general area and I have asked him to investigate this rumor. Phil likes the cold weather and isolation. It is unlikely that the Grand Hotel is open to the public at this time so what better place to have peace and quiet yet be able to determine what direction the Pistons might go? Phil will lead a chanting Zen opportunity each morning and submit abstract messages to help Joe lose unwanted weight which will enable him to function without pain next season. Medication for pain caused Joe to not argue with Mr. Gores about the hiring of Frank the last time around. Phil will help Joe stand up for his rights when he is around this strong minded owner who will continue to party in LA this weekend. Does Mr. Gores worry about how a JD Powers survey about the fan support might come out? Will he base everything on that Survey? So many questions and no answers from our Detroit News reporters.

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Burke fans might get their wish check out NBADRAFT.Net

Post  cool breeze on Fri May 10, 2013 9:52 pm

This site has changed the lineup for the draft today. They had Detroit taking Cody Zeller my choice for the first round. But the good news is that Phoenix is projected to take Zeller and Burke is listed as the Pistons pick.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri May 10, 2013 9:42 pm

Oracle wrote:But I totally agree with it, and wish Joe had done the same with Stuckey!

Knight needs the competition to reach the level he needs to get to! I noticed that all season, when his level of play was fantastic when he felt competition on the other side of the ball, and poor at times when he didn't!

Drafting Trey Burke or another guard would force him to be on every night, not just for rivalry type games!

Brandon Knight Needs To Work On His Motivation For Detroit Pistons

People keep ignoring this fact. When the Pistons traded for Calderon everyone thought the team would then take off to a new higher level. Instead the team went flat or stayed about the same. Everyone was crying that Knight was a horrible point guard. He turned the ball over too much. But Calderon made no difference. Would say Burke have made this team better last season? No way I say. Chris Paul would have only brought his star quality to the team meaning he would have to shoot the ball more. There was no way to get that offense going because the team had Monroe and Maxiell playing most of the minutes in the paint. God I wish fans would remember how bad that combination actually was.

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This article is tough on Knight

Post  Oracle on Fri May 10, 2013 8:05 pm

But I totally agree with it, and wish Joe had done the same with Stuckey!

Knight needs the competition to reach the level he needs to get to! I noticed that all season, when his level of play was fantastic when he felt competition on the other side of the ball, and poor at times when he didn't!

Drafting Trey Burke or another guard would force him to be on every night, not just for rivalry type games!

Brandon Knight Needs To Work On His Motivation For Detroit Pistons
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Kyle Singler and the article in the Free Press about him

Post  Oracle on Fri May 10, 2013 7:59 pm

Don, I think Singler is going to be a solid pro, just not now!

He has a few more years to develop, and if we get someone to play in front of him, by the time he blossoms, he'll be ready to make his claim.

One thing about Singler is that he will always be a player that's needed on a contender!
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Josh Smith

Post  Oracle on Fri May 10, 2013 7:56 pm

cool breeze wrote:
merc wrote:Put me down for NO to Monroe out Josh Smith in... Smith plays like a knucklehead... poor shot selection... we have to factor in upside,& contract & team play... the new CBA will be in our favor for re-signing GM in a year.
Don't get me wrong I would deal Monroe for the right player just not seeing Josh Smith as a big improvement (as Monroe sets up Dre with another great pass!)
What this team needs at the big man position is a player like Dice... he would be the perfect compliment to Dre & GM.
For now let's focus on the perimeter.

Mercury you described Smith as playing like a "knucklehead" which is about the most perfect description I can think of regarding this player that so many Piston fans are in love with. I have mentioned my reservations with Smith because he will demand a lot of money and has never proven that he can play smart in crunch time. He is so athletic but is missing the most important thing of all, high basketball IQ.


Yeah he can be a knucklehead at times, but he also comes up so small in big moments, and that bothers me!

Even so, I'd take him if his price tag reflected his true value! I think coaching over the years has failed him, and if we can get the right coach and grow the right environment here, he would eventually change... admittedly a lot of "if's", but there it is!
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Kyle Singler and the article in the Free Press about him

Post  cool breeze on Fri May 10, 2013 7:21 pm

Many of you are not excited by Singler. You want Josh Smith or some other high profile player and seem to always include him in potential trade ideas. But I like Singler and I like his history. At every level of basketball, Singler has shown that he keeps improving. He loves trying to get better. Maybe I am wrong but I see Singler as a guy much like Kurt Hinrich. Nobody including Joe Dumars wanted anything to do with Hinrich at any time in his career. But everywhere he has gone, Hinrich as made his team better. The man I respect most of all regarding having a smart basketball mind in Steve Kerr. This guy is amazing. He knows almost every college basketball player and has all their strengths and weaknesses down. In my opinion, he is the best commentator in the game today regarding NCAA and NBA basketball. He really appreciates players like Hinrich. When he was GM for the Phoenix Suns, the rich owner started trying to get his way regarding player decisions and other things, and Kerr was very happy submit his resignation right away. The Suns have not been right since. Kerr is great in everything he does it seems. He knows Singler and really appreciates what he brings to a team. If the Pistons had signed Hinrich instead of Gordon or some of the other clowns Dumars has pursued, the Pistons would be a different team. He brings stability to a team in many ways. Guys like Singler and Hinrich can come off the bench or start. It makes no difference. They are just smart unselfish basketball players who make a team better. Notice that Toronto has not improved since signing that star shooting guard. Will Detroit start signing team orientated smart young players or continue to flounder with the other teams that are out of the playoffs? It starts with the GM.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri May 10, 2013 7:10 pm

merc wrote:Put me down for NO to Monroe out Josh Smith in... Smith plays like a knucklehead... poor shot selection... we have to factor in upside,& contract & team play... the new CBA will be in our favor for re-signing GM in a year.
Don't get me wrong I would deal Monroe for the right player just not seeing Josh Smith as a big improvement (as Monroe sets up Dre with another great pass!)
What this team needs at the big man position is a player like Dice... he would be the perfect compliment to Dre & GM.
For now let's focus on the perimeter.

Mercury you described Smith as playing like a "knucklehead" which is about the most perfect description I can think of regarding this player that so many Piston fans are in love with. I have mentioned my reservations with Smith because he will demand a lot of money and has never proven that he can play smart in crunch time. He is so athletic but is missing the most important thing of all, high basketball IQ.


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Re: FORUM

Post  merc on Fri May 10, 2013 6:11 pm

Put me down for NO to Monroe out Josh Smith in... Smith plays like a knucklehead... poor shot selection... we have to factor in upside,& contract & team play... the new CBA will be in our favor for re-signing GM in a year.
Don't get me wrong I would deal Monroe for the right player just not seeing Josh Smith as a big improvement (as Monroe sets up Dre with another great pass!)
What this team needs at the big man position is a player like Dice... he would be the perfect compliment to Dre & GM.
For now let's focus on the perimeter.
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Your dreams will come true... sort of

Post  Oracle on Fri May 10, 2013 3:20 pm

deusXango wrote:Murph, I've found that NBADraft.net just throws sh!t up on the wall to see what sticks; it's misleading and shows no consideration for franchise needs. If for whatever reason this last mock draft, that has the Pistons taking Trey Burke at #7 comes true, I'm one happy camper!!

With the CAP space available this summer it's possible for both Smith and Iguodala to become Pistons, and if Joe could pull that one off it would be the coup of the FA signing period. With a young wunderkind at PG and two extremely good wing defenders suddenly infused into the starting lineup, all the team would then need would be a good coach (one that matches the teams talent) to be a top 4 team in the east. Hopes would be high, the Palace would be the place to be on those cold winter nights, and my dream of a real contender would've come true.

That part will come true, we're going to be a contender in the east next year without any doubt, the question will be how much of a contender.

I wouldn't knock the mock drafts too much this year because the talent difference in the top players isn't as great as in previous years, and that's why it will follow need.

However, what makes it so hard for the mockers is that the teams picking in the lottery have multiple needs, so they're trying to figure out which need they'll most likely address through the draft.

IMO, and I've stated it more than once is that our biggest need is at the PG position(Burke or Carter-Williams are my choice) because it allows us to let Calderon walk and frees us up to address another big and SF via trades or the FA market!
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Interesting

Post  Oracle on Fri May 10, 2013 3:13 pm

Murph wrote:
Oracle wrote:With further proof that the Pistons will continue to bet on Knight at the point and flirt with Calderon before letting him walk, the odds on consensus is that they will go after interior help... a big man!

Well, there are three ways to address that concern, either through the draft, trade, or the FA market! If they choose trade or FA, it frees them up to draft a SG or SF to spread the floor!

However, here is where Don should have some hope. NBADraft.net is showing that the Pistons are scheduled to draft Cody Zeller in the first round!

Smile Don, here's the link - 2013 Mock Draft

Oddly enough, that link to draftnet now has us taking Trey Burke at #7. That's fine by me.

We don't need Cody Zeller. And I don't know why we'd want to draft an undersized, potential defensive liability like Muhammad.


Ok Wise and DX...if we have to use 90% of our cap space this year, then I agree that Josh Smith is probably our best FA option. I wouldn't mind signing Iggy, either.

That's very interesting because it appears to confirm my earlier theory that the draft order is going to follow NEED more than anything else this year!
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If my dream came true

Post  deusXango on Fri May 10, 2013 3:07 pm

Murph, I've found that NBADraft.net just throws sh!t up on the wall to see what sticks; it's misleading and shows no consideration for franchise needs. If for whatever reason this last mock draft, that has the Pistons taking Trey Burke at #7 comes true, I'm one happy camper!!

With the CAP space available this summer it's possible for both Smith and Iguodala to become Pistons, and if Joe could pull that one off it would be the coup of the FA signing period. With a young wunderkind at PG and two extremely good wing defenders suddenly infused into the starting lineup, all the team would then need would be a good coach (one that matches the teams talent) to be a top 4 team in the east. Hopes would be high, the Palace would be the place to be on those cold winter nights, and my dream of a real contender would've come true.
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Re: FORUM

Post  Murph on Fri May 10, 2013 9:49 am

Oracle wrote:With further proof that the Pistons will continue to bet on Knight at the point and flirt with Calderon before letting him walk, the odds on consensus is that they will go after interior help... a big man!

Well, there are three ways to address that concern, either through the draft, trade, or the FA market! If they choose trade or FA, it frees them up to draft a SG or SF to spread the floor!

However, here is where Don should have some hope. NBADraft.net is showing that the Pistons are scheduled to draft Cody Zeller in the first round!

Smile Don, here's the link - 2013 Mock Draft

Oddly enough, that link to draftnet now has us taking Trey Burke at #7. That's fine by me.

We don't need Cody Zeller. And I don't know why we'd want to draft an undersized, potential defensive liability like Muhammad.


Ok Wise and DX...if we have to use 90% of our cap space this year, then I agree that Josh Smith is probably our best FA option. I wouldn't mind signing Iggy, either.
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Will Don get his wish?

Post  Oracle on Fri May 10, 2013 5:33 am

With further proof that the Pistons will continue to bet on Knight at the point and flirt with Calderon before letting him walk, the odds on consensus is that they will go after interior help... a big man!

Well, there are three ways to address that concern, either through the draft, trade, or the FA market! If they choose trade or FA, it frees them up to draft a SG or SF to spread the floor!

However, here is where Don should have some hope. NBADraft.net is showing that the Pistons are scheduled to draft Cody Zeller in the first round!

Smile Don, here's the link - 2013 Mock Draft
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I would Trade Monroe before Knight if any of the young key players must go to bring in a real stud

Post  cool breeze on Thu May 09, 2013 5:24 pm

What if the Pistons draft Zeller and trade Monroe to obtain a outstanding skill position player? I really like Zeller because he is smart and athletic. He would do well in the pick and roll plays and would be able to defend 1000% better than Monroe playing power forward. I think Zeller and Drummond would play great together. The Pistons could play the fast paced game with Knight being able to increase the tempo because he would have two athletic bigs who can get down the floor fast. I question Monroe's defensive ability and his ability to run the court fast enough to keep up on a playoff situation. An assistant college coach informed me that he thinks Zeller is going to be a great pro player. That is why I like seeing him as the Pistons pick according to NBADRAFTNET. If Burke is not there, then I would take either Zeller or Muhammad if management is not going to trade Monroe.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Thu May 09, 2013 5:15 pm

WISEFAN wrote:
Oracle wrote:"Arnie Kander sees glimpses of elite explosiveness in Brandon Knight – the transition dunks where he breaks from a pack and gets to the rim in a heartbeat, the dynamic drive for the game-winner against Toronto last season – and envisions the frequency of those instances multiplying.
He’ll start by slowing Knight down.

“I’m going to really work at his process for changing speeds,” the Pistons strength and conditioning coach said. “Slowing way, way down. Getting better at the task, but more importantly getting better at what’s between tasks.”

Think Chris Paul, perhaps, or Tony Parker. Knight is in their ballpark for speed and quickness, but just as not every pitcher who throws 100 mph is as effective as Justin Verlander, neither is a steady diet of full-throttle pace a recipe for consistently beating defenders off the dribble."
- Gearing Down to Gear Up

A lot more in the article, and Arnie reveals his twinkle toes history Smile

I honest don't think Knight has a quickness issue, its still his handles and that they're simply about average. He needs to be more deliberate and practical with his dribble much in the way Chauncey use to do. Brandon cannot match his quickness with his thinking which is why he can't grasp the PG positions. It think first then attack not and attack first and then think.

Arnie Kander is one smart man and a huge asset for the Detroit Pistons. Everything he said about Knight is true and I had been thinking this same thing about slowing Knight down and to encourage him to change speeds. What in hell did Frank's group of assistants do to improve the young players? Why were they not working with Knight on this issue? I think that Frank gave Knight instructions to increase the tempo of the offense and that is what Knight was trying to do which is not an easy thing to do given some of the players he played with who were not scoring threats and were slow moving players. Watching the way the Warriors play ball made me think of Knight and how much better he would play with some of the players on that team and the style that they play. Notice that the Warriors coach is not afraid to play the rookies. Detroit needs a coach like that as many of us had been saying for the past two seasons under Frank and Dumars direction. You see, I still can't believe that Joe Dumars did not have some impact on player rotations. Did Frank really call the shots when it came to playing Maxiell so many minutes for the past two seasons? Dumars likes Maxiell and he might sign him to a new contract if he retains his job next fall. I don't like the idea of Maxiell, Bynum, Charlie V or Stuckey returning next season.

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Kander’s summer plans for Knight

Post  WTF on Thu May 09, 2013 4:46 pm

Oracle wrote:"Arnie Kander sees glimpses of elite explosiveness in Brandon Knight – the transition dunks where he breaks from a pack and gets to the rim in a heartbeat, the dynamic drive for the game-winner against Toronto last season – and envisions the frequency of those instances multiplying.
He’ll start by slowing Knight down.

“I’m going to really work at his process for changing speeds,” the Pistons strength and conditioning coach said. “Slowing way, way down. Getting better at the task, but more importantly getting better at what’s between tasks.”

Think Chris Paul, perhaps, or Tony Parker. Knight is in their ballpark for speed and quickness, but just as not every pitcher who throws 100 mph is as effective as Justin Verlander, neither is a steady diet of full-throttle pace a recipe for consistently beating defenders off the dribble."
- Gearing Down to Gear Up

A lot more in the article, and Arnie reveals his twinkle toes history Smile

I honest don't think Knight has a quickness issue, its still his handles and that they're simply about average. He needs to be more deliberate and practical with his dribble much in the way Chauncey use to do. Brandon cannot match his quickness with his thinking which is why he can't grasp the PG positions. It think first then attack not and attack first and then think.
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Kander’s summer plans for Knight

Post  Oracle on Thu May 09, 2013 3:39 pm

"Arnie Kander sees glimpses of elite explosiveness in Brandon Knight – the transition dunks where he breaks from a pack and gets to the rim in a heartbeat, the dynamic drive for the game-winner against Toronto last season – and envisions the frequency of those instances multiplying.
He’ll start by slowing Knight down.

“I’m going to really work at his process for changing speeds,” the Pistons strength and conditioning coach said. “Slowing way, way down. Getting better at the task, but more importantly getting better at what’s between tasks.”

Think Chris Paul, perhaps, or Tony Parker. Knight is in their ballpark for speed and quickness, but just as not every pitcher who throws 100 mph is as effective as Justin Verlander, neither is a steady diet of full-throttle pace a recipe for consistently beating defenders off the dribble."
- Gearing Down to Gear Up

A lot more in the article, and Arnie reveals his twinkle toes history Smile
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Let's give Murph a standing "O"

Post  Oracle on Thu May 09, 2013 3:28 pm

Murph you NAILED it on Frank!

The exact same thing happened here as well, that dude just keeps getting worse and I'll be shocked if he gets another head coaching job for years(if at all).

Hayes, unknown to his dumb self, was praising Frank for the only job he's qualified for... assistant coach, and assuming it would translate... it didn't!

I'm giving you a standing ovation! dance
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Re: FORUM

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