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Best article on the most recent Bleacher Report

Post  cool breeze on Tue May 07, 2013 5:52 pm

I was impressed with the story about Arnie Kander working with Monroe this summer. It was great to find out that Monroe has not taken time off since the season ended. He wants to get better so that is real cool. Kander is working on Monroe's leg strength and his stance. That is what I have been so upset about with Monroe both in college and his time with the Pistons. He plays straight up. Taking the pain involved to spread the feet and get the legs bent to obtain a proper base is the key to success in any sport. We see Noah for example get in the perfect base position. If a player who has never worked on his legs and played with the legs bent with the feet moving taking small steps on defense, it will be so painful until a memory is created. It is crazy that some NBA players get away with lazy footwork playing straight up on defense. That is what Monroe was been doing sports fans. It might take more than this summer to break bad habits but Monroe has to know he is about the worst big man defender in the NBA right now. Moving to power forward will require more foot speed and balance. If Monroe can get the legs down and find his proper base, he will find out that in the 4th quarter of games he will not only become a quality defender but his outside jump shot will be so much easier to make. One last comment on the fundamentals of obtaining a proper base involves free throw shooting. It is no wonder why so many big men and other players in the NBA can never figure out the secret to successful free throw shooting. Bend your legs and get in the same lower stance on every attempt and get the opposite hand off the ball when you release it and obtain good backspin. Have the assistant Piston coaches been working with the poor free throw shooters? I don't think so. We watched Ben Wallace struggle for his entire career. I have had really poor high school big men come in and miss the rim at first but I have never coached a player to this day who couldn't learn how to shoot a free throw for a decent percentage. There is no excuse for missing free throws and all the players know it and when a teammate misses one, his teammates get pissed for good reason. Being careless at practice leads to failure. I just watched Richard Jefferson slack off in the 4th quarter on a breakaway layup last night against the Spurs and not make that basket he had to make. Then he missed two free throws which in my mind was the turning point in that game. How do you explain that if you are a older vet like Jefferson to your younger teammates??

By the way, there would not be any player on the Bulls who would have jogged down the court like Jefferson did last night. Way to go Bulls!

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Josh Smith

Post  deusXango on Tue May 07, 2013 5:45 pm

Sebastian, thanks for the info and facts regarding Josh Smith's potential worth to the Pistons; there's not a team he can help more and in the end, he'll be one of our heroes. I believe the three amigos of Drummond, Monroe, and Smith will love playing together and be real terrors around the paint. He'll make Monroe look good and have Drummonds back; he'll bring the best out of both our building blocks. Josh Smith is a no-brainer!!
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LMAO

Post  WTF on Tue May 07, 2013 5:41 pm

So stop trying to change the subject, your point was that we could get anybody to do Joe's job, and you fell for the "find one" trick to prove how rare GM's that have, and are capable of doing what Joe did are! They're exceedingly rare! - Oracle

That was never my point, anybody could be me or you. Also everything that occurs in a 32 team league where much doesn't change could be consider exceedingly rare just based on the longevity one my sit in a position of power. That's why only a handful of teams succeed at winning titles don't mistake that rarity as Joe Fat Ass being special Smile.

I'm not ignoring facts perhaps my bottom line is a little deeper than yours, my simply don't stop at "we almost won" so I don't apply the same form of patting Joe on the head as you do.

You're half right on this though, I don't like Cleaves never had never will, I don't hate Joe I just think he's a dumb ass.

BTW My point was that you can find anyone without GM experience and succeed if they're knowledge about the league and basketball in general. Most coaches IMO are better at evaluating talent and system, Agents likely know the business and players are hit and miss most of the time. Joe wasn't hire because he was better experience, he was hire because he was the closes kiss ass to Davidson ass.


Last edited by WISEFAN on Tue May 07, 2013 7:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Josh Smith

Post  Sebastian on Tue May 07, 2013 5:28 pm

deusXango wrote:
WISEFAN wrote:Sorry DX and others but the cap space can't be held the CBA requires that 90 percent of it must be spent. The good news is that if Joe is smart he can use it up in trades as well as free agency.

We all now Josh Smith is damn good and Joe needs to strike while he can, moaning about age, long term contracts and max deals is crazy. If anyone thinks Smith wouldn't immediately improve our chances and better the defense they're not thinking clearly and the same can be said about Allen. It does matter if we over spend because the CBA mandates we do.

I like our young guys but there will be sacrifices to be made that some of you won't like but they will be necessary evils.
Thanks Wise, I already knew that CAP money couldn't be held and posted it a couple of times but, I guess my posts go unread by some; I was trying to stop my fellow posters from being deluded into thinking that Joe could do something that was totally against the new CBA.
IMHO the time for making a meaningful trade passed when this years trade deadline went by with Dumars sitting on his ample ass. Some fans were sold on that "standing pat" B.S. then but, now we can see the benefit of using CAP space on expiring contracts (in hopes of re-signing them) so we'd know where the Pistons stood this FA period!! The reality is, with all the resources at the Pistons disposal to improve the team, the franchise is about 6 months behind time; if "time is money" rings true, then money is being wasted because of the GM!!!

No one notices that but are quick to point out that Josh Smith wanted a max contract from ATL, therefore he'd make a poor investment for Detroit; "he's not worth max money" has been the damning cry for those that are against signing him but, in the same breath they call for Andre Igoudala (a player who's turned down $16 million to become a FA this summer!!) Who's the greedy player? Do I stand alone in thinking that Smith is a better player and fit the Pistons needs better than Iggy? I think that from Victor Oladipo to Tony Allen you can duplicate what Iggy does, and do it for less than half the money! Here's another high-priced SG that couldn't carry his team out of the first round (Joe Johnson being the other), so I'm not for tying up big money in a SG.

Wise, I know what you mean when you talk about sacrifices being necessary evils but, I want the team to win more than I want to watch my sentimental favorite in a half empty Palace, leading the team to another loss; give me the upgrades, no matter what it takes.

Yo, DX, I am 100% down with a Josh Smith signing. I, too, believe that he only makes OUR roster better, defensively and offensively. Also with Josh, WE can play small ball (Josh at the 4), when teams want to try the small ball game against US or whenever Moose and/or Dre are in foul trouble. Playing alongside Moose and Dre will afford Josh the opportunity to advantage of opposing SF's.

One of the things that I don't believe most people quite understand about Josh's career up to this point is - he (Josh Smith) has played somewhat out of position, since he has been in the League. From, 2005-2008 he was listed as a SF:

2005-06 Smith was listed as a SF
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2005.html

2006-07 Smith was listed as a SF
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2006.html

2007-08 Smith was listed as a SF
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2007.html

From the 2008-2009 season through this season, he has played the PF position alongside Al Hortford, who himself is a PF playing out of position as a Center:

2008-09 Smith was listed as a PF
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2008.html

2009-10 Smith was listed as a PF
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2009.html

2010-11 Smith was listed as a PF
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2010.html

2011-12 Smith was listed as a PF
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2011.html

2012-13 Smith was listed as a PF
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2012.html

If Smith is acquired by Joe, it will be the first time in his career that he will play with a legitimate 4 and 5.

And, maybe, while the Rockets are sniffing to sign Dwight Howard, Joe can make a hard run at Josh Smith.

Do it Joe!!! Sign Josh Smith!!!
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Cap Money Can't Be Held

Post  deusXango on Tue May 07, 2013 5:04 pm

WISEFAN wrote:Sorry DX and others but the cap space can't be held the CBA requires that 90 percent of it must be spent. The good news is that if Joe is smart he can use it up in trades as well as free agency.

We all now Josh Smith is damn good and Joe needs to strike while he can, moaning about age, long term contracts and max deals is crazy. If anyone thinks Smith wouldn't immediately improve our chances and better the defense they're not thinking clearly and the same can be said about Allen. It does matter if we over spend because the CBA mandates we do.

I like our young guys but there will be sacrifices to be made that some of you won't like but they will be necessary evils.
Thanks Wise, I already knew that CAP money couldn't be held and posted it a couple of times but, I guess my posts go unread by some; I was trying to stop my fellow posters from being deluded into thinking that Joe could do something that was totally against the new CBA.
IMHO the time for making a meaningful trade passed when this years trade deadline went by with Dumars sitting on his ample ass. Some fans were sold on that "standing pat" B.S. then but, now we can see the benefit of using CAP space on expiring contracts (in hopes of re-signing them) so we'd know where the Pistons stood this FA period!! The reality is, with all the resources at the Pistons disposal to improve the team, the franchise is about 6 months behind time; if "time is money" rings true, then money is being wasted because of the GM!!!

No one notices that but are quick to point out that Josh Smith wanted a max contract from ATL, therefore he'd make a poor investment for Detroit; "he's not worth max money" has been the damning cry for those that are against signing him but, in the same breath they call for Andre Igoudala (a player who's turned down $16 million to become a FA this summer!!) Who's the greedy player? Do I stand alone in thinking that Smith is a better player and fit the Pistons needs better than Iggy? I think that from Victor Oladipo to Tony Allen you can duplicate what Iggy does, and do it for less than half the money! Here's another high-priced SG that couldn't carry his team out of the first round (Joe Johnson being the other), so I'm not for tying up big money in a SG.

Wise, I know what you mean when you talk about sacrifices being necessary evils but, I want the team to win more than I want to watch my sentimental favorite in a half empty Palace, leading the team to another loss; give me the upgrades, no matter what it takes.



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Seb

Post  Oracle on Tue May 07, 2013 5:00 pm

Seb, I forgot to tell you how you had me rolling with that Collins post, LOL!

Hopefully Phil will stop Joe before he goes to the Dark Side Smile

BTW, Collins was accused of "Walking both sides of the street"! That brings up visuals I don't want to think about Smile
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Cap Money Can't Be Held

Post  Oracle on Tue May 07, 2013 4:57 pm

lemonpen wrote:
More than one way to skin the cat.
I mentioned B4 the possibility of trading for a guy like Danny Grander who has 1 year left on a BIG contract. If you don't particularly like this years crop of FA's, buy a 1 year deferment.

Lemon, I didn't get that when you first posted it, but that's a SUPERIOR idea that I can get behind, even though I don't think Joe could sell it to fans!

BTW, Wise was wiser than I thought with the Bosh idea, with the added benefit that we know we'll get the production out of Bosh... good call Wise!
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Case even weaker

Post  Oracle on Tue May 07, 2013 4:51 pm

WISEFAN wrote:I'll ask the question again: If what I outlined above is so true, then show me where it's EVER happened before? If it's illogical to assume that, then where is the proof that it's an everyday occurrence. Hell, it's not even a once in a blue moon occurrence, yet you treat it like it happens every day, and call that logical?

If you can't even come up with one case, how in the world can you make sense of what you're trying to say?

Lets see this should be an easy one to answer, I'll just stay at home for this one though. In 1979 the Detroit Pistons hired one Jack McCloskey as General Manager who had no previous experience at the job. Really no need to point out what this inexperience GM went on to accomplished in the same number of years Joe has been in place as GM.

My point is that everyone starts off without experience, what Joe has done isn't as unique as you think. Trader Jack career consisted of 3 straight NBA Finals appearances, winning twice and 6 straight ECF appearances as well. His team I believe in those 13 years manage to make the playoffs 11 of those 13 years.

There's my logic and case made


Your case is so incomplete it isn't even funny! It's weak to answer FACTS with "You think"! I'm NOT thinking, I'm talking about FACTS, you're struggling with the difference again! I didn't think Joe's record, it exists and is a fact that you either refuse to deal with or don't get!

You're also in some dream world! Everybody doesn't start off in the job with no experience! That's like saying everybody in the ECF has never been there before! Some are, but most are repeat offenders Smile

So stop trying to change the subject, your point was that we could get anybody to do Joe's job, and you fell for the "find one" trick to prove how rare GM's that have, and are capable of doing what Joe did are! They're exceedingly rare!

Here again, like Cleaves, you just need to admit that you don't like Joe and you want him gone!

I do understand your reasons and respect them, even if I don't agree with all of them, but this ignoring of facts is odd! You can, and have made the point that Joe can't live on his past accomplishments... fair enough... let it go at that!

BTW, I couldn't agree with this more - "If you really want to know what makes Joe unique that would be what he didn't do with a potential dynasty when he had a chance to. ." - Wise
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Thomas Robinson

Post  Sebastian on Tue May 07, 2013 3:39 pm

WISEFAN wrote:
Sebastian wrote:Joe may want to consider getting Daryl Morey on the phone and offering OUR first round pick for Thomas Robinson.

The way I see it, the Rockets don't have any real interest in Robinson and he would be a great young, addition to OUR front line.

Why would we give up a 1st round for a player that produced 4 points and 4 rebounds a game that didn't see the court in the playoffs?

Yo, Wise, T. Rob was the #5 Pick in last year's Draft. True he didn't do much, while with the Kings and barely anything at all with the Rockets, but the kid is still young and probably still has the fire to prove that he belongs in the League.

Besides, I truly believe that he is better than any player that's projected as a lottery pick in this year's draft.
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Cap Money Can't Be Held

Post  WTF on Tue May 07, 2013 2:18 pm

lemonpen wrote:
WISEFAN wrote:Sorry DX and others but the cap space can't be held the CBA requires that 90 percent of it must be spent. The good news is that if Joe is smart he can use it up in trades as well as free agency.

Joe is going to have to swing for the fence as I've been saying for some time now large in part because TIME isn't on his side to continue on a path of trying to develop the likes of Middleton, English, Slava, Singler and to a degree Knight. If this team isn't producing a .500 record or better next season Joe will surely be fired. You have to grasp onto this reality that there is no 2 or 3 year plan for this because Joe has already wasted it.

We all now Josh Smith is damn good and Joe needs to strike while he can, moaning about age, long term contracts and max deals is crazy. If anyone thinks Smith wouldn't immediately improve our chances and better the defense they're not thinking clearly and the same can be said about Allen. It does matter if we over spend because the CBA mandates we do.

I like our young guys but there will be sacrifices to be made that some of you won't like but they will be necessary evils.

More than one way to skin the cat.
I mentioned B4 the possibility of trading for a guy like Danny Grander who has 1 year left on a BIG contract. If you don't particularly like this years crop of FA's, buy a 1 year deferment.

I agree lemonpen that also one of the reasons I suggested Bosh in trade as well. Problem is that it doesn't address the issue of TIME and the URGENCY to correct things. Joe doesn't have 2 years, he's barely has a summer to fix the problems.
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Cap Money Can't Be Held

Post  lemonpen on Tue May 07, 2013 1:53 pm

WISEFAN wrote:Sorry DX and others but the cap space can't be held the CBA requires that 90 percent of it must be spent. The good news is that if Joe is smart he can use it up in trades as well as free agency.

Joe is going to have to swing for the fence as I've been saying for some time now large in part because TIME isn't on his side to continue on a path of trying to develop the likes of Middleton, English, Slava, Singler and to a degree Knight. If this team isn't producing a .500 record or better next season Joe will surely be fired. You have to grasp onto this reality that there is no 2 or 3 year plan for this because Joe has already wasted it.

We all now Josh Smith is damn good and Joe needs to strike while he can, moaning about age, long term contracts and max deals is crazy. If anyone thinks Smith wouldn't immediately improve our chances and better the defense they're not thinking clearly and the same can be said about Allen. It does matter if we over spend because the CBA mandates we do.

I like our young guys but there will be sacrifices to be made that some of you won't like but they will be necessary evils.

More than one way to skin the cat.
I mentioned B4 the possibility of trading for a guy like Danny Grander who has 1 year left on a BIG contract. If you don't particularly like this years crop of FA's, buy a 1 year deferment.
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RE

Post  Phil1980boy on Tue May 07, 2013 1:12 pm

"IMO the plan should be to focus on young players that haven't reached their upside... players like Aminu, Brewer, Clark.... hardly glamorous but good piece to the puzzle."

WOW Great post!!! I like Aminu. Detroit would be lucky to get they hands on this kid if N.O. would let him get away.
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For Real Sebastian

Post  WTF on Tue May 07, 2013 12:19 pm

Sebastian wrote:Joe may want to consider getting Daryl Morey on the phone and offering OUR first round pick for Thomas Robinson.

The way I see it, the Rockets don't have any real interest in Robinson and he would be a great young, addition to OUR front line.

Why would we give up a 1st round for a player that produced 4 points and 4 rebounds a game that didn't see the court in the playoffs?
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What about trading the first round pick?

Post  Sebastian on Tue May 07, 2013 12:09 pm

Joe may want to consider getting Daryl Morey on the phone and offering OUR first round pick for Thomas Robinson.

The way I see it, the Rockets don't have any real interest in Robinson and he would be a great young, addition to OUR front line.
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Cap Money Can't Be Held

Post  WTF on Tue May 07, 2013 11:39 am

Sorry DX and others but the cap space can't be held the CBA requires that 90 percent of it must be spent. The good news is that if Joe is smart he can use it up in trades as well as free agency.

Joe is going to have to swing for the fence as I've been saying for some time now large in part because TIME isn't on his side to continue on a path of trying to develop the likes of Middleton, English, Slava, Singler and to a degree Knight. If this team isn't producing a .500 record or better next season Joe will surely be fired. You have to grasp onto this reality that there is no 2 or 3 year plan for this because Joe has already wasted it.

We all now Josh Smith is damn good and Joe needs to strike while he can, moaning about age, long term contracts and max deals is crazy. If anyone thinks Smith wouldn't immediately improve our chances and better the defense they're not thinking clearly and the same can be said about Allen. It does matter if we over spend because the CBA mandates we do.

I like our young guys but there will be sacrifices to be made that some of you won't like but they will be necessary evils.
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Rebuilding

Post  deusXango on Tue May 07, 2013 10:58 am

Murph wrote:
cool breeze wrote:...some of you are offering the thought that Piston management should give away Knight to move up in the draft. Just checking the facts, Knight is 6 feet 3 inches tall and has added a lot of muscle over the last year. Maybe Knight will look even stronger this fall and will have two seasons of NBA experience under his belt. I think some of you think you have some of our young players down. You don't think they will ever be winners. I disagree. I think Knight will become a great point guard. He needs better players to play with. Calderon didn't look special with this team. Do any of you believe that Burke would change things for the Pistons if Stuckey and Charlie V are still on the team next year? And some of you have counted out Singler saying his defense is lacking. Yet after Prince was traded it was a given that Singler was the best defender on the team. The reason why Singler got the starts at the two guard and small forward was because he was an outstanding help defender. Some of you are watching Chicago play basketball. Why are they such a great defensive team? THEY BELIEVE IN PLAYERS WHO HELP OTHER PLAYERS ON DEFENSE. We need more Kyle Singlers on this Piston team instead of placing him on the bench or trading him.

I don't know if Knight will become a great PG or not. But I agree...I'm very reluctant to trade away any of our young players right now, and that includes Monroe, Knight, Singler and even Stuckey. I mean, we aren't going to have cap problems for a couple of years, so unless there is a specific trade in the works to bring in a specific veteran that would help the Pistons move to the next level, there's no point in dumping any of our young players. We don't need the cap space, and we don't need the roster space. So let's just keep developing these players and see what happens.

Merc also has a point about spending a lot of free agent money on guys who are about to move past their prime. It might be wiser to save the cap space, and hope to participate in a big trade for a big name star at the trade deadline next year, if and only if, we're already contentding for a playoff spot.
Was it you or Merc or both that advocated waiting for the trade deadline this year (because it was assured that Joe would make this fabulous trade then) but, nothing was even thought of when the deadline approached; the company line was all about "standing pat" and Calderon doesn't count. Now you want to wait for another trade deadline? Why?

Murph, Stuckey isn't young anymore; these past 6 years with the Pistons have been like dog years for/with him. If there was any outstanding talent there that would set him apart from the middle of the road NBA player, it would have shown by now; he's average at best and a mediocre diva at his worse, and guaranteed to be inconsistent.

I agree about recklessly trading away any of the young players without an upgrade to move the Pistons to the next level but, I'm such a Trey Burke supporter that I see him as a piece that can do just that. I'm not a doubter. I advocate trading Knight only because it might work to fit our needs, and combo guards are a dime a dozen in the NBA whereas quality big men are much harder to come by, especially ones with high basketball I.Q.'s. Although Burke is not a veteran, he's a specific target to help move this team to the next level.

The only reason I'd hold onto the CAP money this year is because I'm afraid of what Joe might do that would damage the future but, I wonder how many people know what the rules are concerning holding money until such and such time under the new CBA? Can the Pistons spend say 50% of the CAP and hold 50% until the trade deadline in hopes of absorbing a huge contract that someone wants to free of, without penalty?
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Let's Be Truthful

Post  WTF on Tue May 07, 2013 9:42 am

One more thing I like to point out is that Jack didn't get stuck on stupid and upgrade his team every season, he didn't allow his bench to fade into the abyss and wasn't afraid of making the big trades. Example Joe looks at Knight and keeps his fingers cross that a miracle will fall out his ass, Jack on the other hand looked at Kelly and said how can I get better (Dantley) and then said how can I improve on that (Mark).

When Jack thought his SG was getting John Long in the tooth, he didn't draft three SF to replace him facepalm , he got VJ and drafted Joe Dumars Smile

This is the thing that bugs me is that this whole notion that Joe is the greatest and can't be replace is silly, and this refusal to fully evaluate Joe on every detail of his career keeps many from forming a honest opinion of Joe. That bottom line of winning goes much deeper than his accomplishments it also speaks volumes of his failures to proceed further than what he did.

We talk bottom line being winning and I would assume that means winning titles and not coming in third and fourth place. If you really want to know what makes Joe unique that would be what he didn't do with a potential dynasty when he had a chance to. . Most Good GM's wouldn't have screwed it up, most of those GM would have gotten 3 to 4 titles out the team form 2004 to 2009. Joe rest on his laurels and standing pat year after year managed only 1 title.
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Everyone Starts Off Being Inexperience

Post  WTF on Tue May 07, 2013 7:29 am

I'll ask the question again: If what I outlined above is so true, then show me where it's EVER happened before? If it's illogical to assume that, then where is the proof that it's an everyday occurrence. Hell, it's not even a once in a blue moon occurrence, yet you treat it like it happens every day, and call that logical?

If you can't even come up with one case, how in the world can you make sense of what you're trying to say?

Lets see this should be an easy one to answer, I'll just stay at home for this one though. In 1979 the Detroit Pistons hired one Jack McCloskey as General Manager who had no previous experience at the job. Really no need to point out what this inexperience GM went on to accomplished in the same number of years Joe has been in place as GM.

My point is that everyone starts off without experience, what Joe has done isn't as unique as you think. Trader Jack career consisted of 3 straight NBA Finals appearances, winning twice and 6 straight ECF appearances as well. His team I believe in those 13 years manage to make the playoffs 11 of those 13 years.

There's my logic and case made




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Rebuilding

Post  Murph on Tue May 07, 2013 7:04 am

cool breeze wrote:...some of you are offering the thought that Piston management should give away Knight to move up in the draft. Just checking the facts, Knight is 6 feet 3 inches tall and has added a lot of muscle over the last year. Maybe Knight will look even stronger this fall and will have two seasons of NBA experience under his belt. I think some of you think you have some of our young players down. You don't think they will ever be winners. I disagree. I think Knight will become a great point guard. He needs better players to play with. Calderon didn't look special with this team. Do any of you believe that Burke would change things for the Pistons if Stuckey and Charlie V are still on the team next year? And some of you have counted out Singler saying his defense is lacking. Yet after Prince was traded it was a given that Singler was the best defender on the team. The reason why Singler got the starts at the two guard and small forward was because he was an outstanding help defender. Some of you are watching Chicago play basketball. Why are they such a great defensive team? THEY BELIEVE IN PLAYERS WHO HELP OTHER PLAYERS ON DEFENSE. We need more Kyle Singlers on this Piston team instead of placing him on the bench or trading him.

I don't know if Knight will become a great PG or not. But I agree...I'm very reluctant to trade away any of our young players right now, and that includes Monroe, Knight, Singler and even Stuckey. I mean, we aren't going to have cap problems for a couple of years, so unless there is a specific trade in the works to bring in a specific veteran that would help the Pistons move to the next level, there's no point in dumping any of our young players. We don't need the cap space, and we don't need the roster space. So let's just keep developing these players and see what happens.

Merc also has a point about spending a lot of free agent money on guys who are about to move past their prime. It might be wiser to save the cap space, and hope to participate in a big trade for a big name star at the trade deadline next year, if and only if, we're already contentding for a playoff spot.

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CONspiracy Theory

Post  Go Stones! on Tue May 07, 2013 6:38 am

So, do you really think that Phil Jackson is really doing this pro bono work without anything in return? Nothing about this situation makes me think this is in the Pistons best interest. What if...

*Phil Jackson knows that the Lakers will amnesty Kobe? His GF is high up the ladder with the Lakers and would know these issues. It would take a year for Kobe to be back to normal...ask JJ or E.Brand. Kobe only has one more year left on his contract, so Pistons could seriously get burned.

*Phil Jackson is scheming for Shaw or himself to land a coaching job...with strings attached?

*Phil Jackson is sick of hearing that he has only won with all-stars all set up. He sees the groundwork and can work it out to leave with a good thing going and proving all the haters wrong. He would be working with some good kids, bring in some good vets and boss is a "friend".

*Do you remember the shock you heard when James and Bosh came to Heat? Or Boston had the original Big 3? It all went down for Boston at the draft. Anything is possible.

I think we are accustomed to thinking small since it is Detroit and the economy is very poor. If the cards are played right, the sky is the limit!

Rose tinted glasses? Well, I think it is nice to change out the view every once in a while. One can only dream... hehe there is something more to this Phil Jackson agreement than just being a friend. NO ONE does stuff for free without something in return...ESPECIALLY someone who has only come to teams with a top-5 player in NBA history.
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RE Can Burke take the pounding in the NBA?

Post  Oracle on Tue May 07, 2013 4:02 am

Phil1980boy wrote:I say this about T.Burke. This kid has heart and he has good body fat for A short Point Guard.

He has good weight. I like the kid muscle. I know he will get bigger and stronger. He will be fine in the NBA as far as that goes.

Burke will not be asked to carry the load in the NBA like he had to do at Michigan. Burke is the 3rd or 4th best player on my draft class stock. Sacramento would be smart to grab him if he still available.

If Detroit stays at 7 he will not be available. Sad

If Steffen Curry can handle it, Burke won't have a problem!

Whoever gets Burke will have a game changer at the PG position! I want him, but I don't advocate trading up for him because I think the price would be too high.

You also can't go too far wrong if you're fixed on a PG by selecting Carter-Williams, who is also more of a natural PG than Knight at this point, but with his size, he could also be a passing SG for us, and a more natural pairing with Knight!

Another way to use him(when paired with Knight) would be as the PG on offense, and guarding the SG on defense! I think he works better with Knight than Burke would because with Burke, you have to get Knight out of the starting unit completely!
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Amen Merc!!!

Post  Oracle on Tue May 07, 2013 3:55 am

merc wrote:For our F.A. targets I'd rather not overspend on anyone in this years pool... just get a good piece for just over the MLE (weeding out the competition)... saving enough for a mid season deal from a team needing to shed salary (gaining a bigger impact player).

Some of the desirable F.A.s are on teams that will have plenty of cap to drive the price up (Ty Evans, O.J. Mayo, Milsap etc)

Then there are the F.A.s that are old enough that they may be on the downside when the Pistons are truly ready to go deep into the playoffs (Smith, Iguodala, Kaman etc)

Acting like rich fat cats with will put us right back in the same position (BG & CV)... Max deals should be reserved for two way superstars... which doesn't exist this year.

IMO the plan should be to focus on young players that haven't reached their upside... players like Aminu, Brewer, Clark.... hardly glamorous but good piece to the puzzle.

By acquiring good young talent via trades we can send back salary which extends the shelf life of our own useful talent.... Any deals can happen before the opening of the Piranha frenzy...
Don't overspend on this crop!

IMO, the FA market is NOT where you want to over spend this year! I don't mind over spending to get someone that's a game changer, but there aren't any in this crop!

What you said is the best logic I can think of, and the only way to go! I'm pretty sure Joe & staff are on the same page, and will seek to get our best bargains via the trade route!

BTW: If the playoffs in general and the Bulls in particular have taught us anything, the most important piece for this team right now is the coach!

This team, beyond any doubt in my mind could have made the playoffs this year(although I'm kind of glad we didn't)! If we had a coach that made them play half as hard as the Bulls are playing, they would have won a lot more games!

The absolute difference between making or not making(as Van Gundy said), is playing hard and commitment to defense! Need proof... I give you the 2013 Bulls!
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RE Can Burke take the pounding in the NBA?

Post  Phil1980boy on Tue May 07, 2013 3:54 am

I say this about T.Burke. This kid has heart and he has good body fat for A short Point Guard.

He has good weight. I like the kid muscle. I know he will get bigger and stronger. He will be fine in the NBA as far as that goes.

Burke will not be asked to carry the load in the NBA like he had to do at Michigan. Burke is the 3rd or 4th best player on my draft class stock. Sacramento would be smart to grab him if he still available.

If Detroit stays at 7 he will not be available. Sad
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Wise, fair enough

Post  Oracle on Tue May 07, 2013 3:41 am

WISEFAN wrote:BTW, either stop calling CV & Gordon dumb, or treat everything as black and white! It's so easy to say something was dumb if it doesn't work! If your criteria is smart if it works and dumb if it doesn't, you have a whole bunch of dumb in your past, and we both know it's not that cut and dry. Admittedly I really didn't mind the signing of Charlie, but the Gordon signing was so dumb on so many levels because it result in trading away Affalo and the mental breakdown of Rip. It was dumb because Joe gave away what was a perfectly sound back-court. It's not dumb because it failed that was inevitable signing Gordon was simply un-neccessary and un-called for.

Speaking of another Wiseism, you made another strangely illogical comment about you don't need to have a GM as good as Joe's record, just go out and get anybody! See Below Comment

Wow, that logic escapes me! If that logic made any sense, then why in the world don't all of the GM's have 6 Conference titles and a championship to their credit? Correction Joe only has 2 ECF Titles and 6 ECF appearances. The logic is that before Joe had 6 ECF appearances he had none when he hired in. It's is illogical to assume that only this feat can be accomplished by only Joe Dumars and that the next inexperience GM would be as successful.

First, I do stand corrected about the ECF appearances.

However, you've used the illogic to try to justify what was faulty to begin with.

I'll ask the question again: If what I outlined above is so true, then show me where it's EVER happened before? If it's illogical to assume that, then where is the proof that it's an everyday occurrence. Hell, it's not even a once in a blue moon occurrence, yet you treat it like it happens every day, and call that logical?

If you can't even come up with one case, how in the world can you make sense of what you're trying to say?
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Can Burke take the pounding in the NBA?

Post  deusXango on Tue May 07, 2013 3:32 am

Don, if Knight can pick up weight and add muscle, so can Burke. Being big, strong, and fast doesn't make a PG; Burke is a PG, Knight is a combo!! To answer your question, yes I think Burke can cut it, once he grows fully into his body, like Knight is doing.

I'm not flat out sold on the idea that Knight must go because he can't play, it's just the opposite. He has enough talent that Orlando would be foolish to turn him down (along with our #7-8 pick for their #2-4) so we could draft Trey Burke. You've got to give up something of value to receive something of equal value; it's a win-win situation for both franchise's and is nowhere near as impractical as the deal Dumars did to rid the Pistons of Gordon's contract. If the Pistons got lucky and moved up in the draft, then I'm all for keeping Knight; I'd rather have Knight on my team than Stuckey, as I believe he's already surpassed Stuckey as a player.

I'm not a fan of Shabazz Mohammad and the only big man project that I'm interested in is slated to go mid to late first round (Dario Saric); if Joe could work a deal with Stuckey and some money to acquire the rights for Saric, I'd be overjoyed!! Stuck with the #7-8th pick, I don't know what to do other than pray.

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