Bosh and Burke

[WTF]

DX, I can't get too hopeful on Burke so McCallum has always been my Plan B. It will take an Act of God to land Burke in the draft.

As for Bosh it doesn't matter if we can keep him beyond next season or not. What Bosh represents is an opportunity to contend this season, a chance for Zeller to grow and more importantly he puts 18 million back in the books as cap space if he doesn't resign after. That still leaves us with Smith and Zeller as well as 18.3 million and that's a win-win in my book. Most want to whine about trading Monroe when Zeller could be a better fit to Drummond and an overall better player than Monroe. not wanting to trade Monroe is the type of same scared tactics that got us where we are now. I basically view Bosh as a means to attract Josh Smith into signing with us long term.

I honestly think Miami would bit simply because resigning Monroe for 10 million sounds better than offering another Max Deal to Bosh when Lebron wants to be paid his worth. This is also a win win for Miami as well beside let Miami over pay Monroe and lock him in for the next 5 seasons. At the end of the day rather we can keep Bosh or not we still come out winners, 1. because we manage to lock up Josh for 5 seasons, we replaced Monroe with Zeller and we get back 18 million if Bosh walks, in addition that if it looks like a failure then Bosh becomes big at trade deadline.

[deusXango]

1. Drafting Zeller #8 and Ray McCallum Jr with 2nd round pick and best available big with #55 pick.
2. Signing Josh Smith to a Max Deal or close. (This still leaves us plenty of cap space)
3. Trading CV, Stuckey and Moose for Bosh. (basically both teams are swapping expiring)
4. Hire any of the following, Johnson, McMillan, Cheeks, or Van Gundy.
5. Fire Joe's Fat Ass
6. No resigning of either Max or Bynum (Replace with Chauncey)
7. Roster: Guards: Knight, McCallum, English, Middleton and Chauncey Fowards: Bosh, JJ, Smith, Singler Centers: Drummond, Zeller and Slava. (Starters are shown in bold)

Wise, that's a damn good vision but, don't give up on Burke too soon; I'm crazy about McCallum's game but, for me it's Burke or bust. A word to the wise; Bosh is from Dallas and it may be hard to keep him after next year (warm weather and big money is very seductive) but, with Smith and Zeller we should be okay. Good post.

[WTF]

1. Drafting Zeller #8 and Ray McCallum Jr with 2nd round pick and best available big with #55 pick. (Luke Hancock)
2. Signing Josh Smith to a Max Deal or close. (This still leaves us plenty of cap space)
3. Trading CV, Stuckey and Moose for Bosh. (basically both teams are swapping expiring)
4. Hire any of the following, Johnson, McMillan, Cheeks, or Van Gundy.
5. Fire Joe's Fat Ass
6. No resigning of either Max or Bynum (Replace with Chauncey)
7. Roster: Guards: Knight, McCallum, English, Middleton and Chauncey Fowards: Bosh, JJ, Smith, Hancock, Singler Centers: Drummond, Zeller and Slava. (Starters are shown in bold)

[deusXango]

The #8 pick seems to be shaping up to be Anthony Bennett or Cody Zeller, which ever one falls to us, at least that's what the popular thinking is. I remember last year this time when John Henson was a shoo-in to be drafted at #9, at least that's what fans were resigned to (myself included), then BAM! #9 rolled around and Andre Drummond was still on the board! There was talk of him being lazy, raw, having an attitude problem, and lacking any semblance of an offensive game; these things were said about possibly the best player to come our way in a long time. Seven, count 'em, 7 GM's slept on the 2nd best player in last years draft, allowing him to fall to us. (How Joe got credit for that is another story altogether.) Anyone who thinks Michael Kidd-Gilchrist is more deserving of being the #2 pick in last years draft is nuts!!! He was over-hyped like......Oladipo!

This year there is a player who quite possibly can be another piece on the Pistons, who may challenge Drummond for being the best player to come our way in a long time; Trey Burke. For the same reasons Dre Drummond was allowed to fall to us, Burke may be on the board at #8 this year; the "know-it-alls" emphasizing their perceived shortcomings of his abilities to excel at the next level. He's too short, he's slow, he's not athletic enough, he can't jump, he's cocky, and like it has any real value in determining what his future holds, "Joe don't like little guards." Hopefully these misconceptions will sour the seven, count 'em, 7 GM's picking, before us on Trey Burke. I just hope that if we're fortune enough to land Burke that we don't give up on Knight; he's going to have a fine career on someone's bench, why not ours? IMHO he's a sight better than all the guards currently on the Pistons, for one reason or another; keep him, let the others go and sign a heady vet like Iggy, to start in the backcourt with Burke, and play a 3 guard rotation!

That #8 pick could use some company; let's give Dallas a holla Joe, and see if we can take Marion off their hands (along with that #14 pick) for our two second rounder's. Hell, we'd even sign O.J. Mayo instead of Iggy, if that would help move the deal along! I'd like to test Dallas to see just how hot they are for Dwight Howard.

[deusXango]

And please Lord...take a pass on CJ McCollum. The guy turned the ball over almost as often as he dished an assist....for LEHIGH. Yes...Lehigh...that basketball powerhouse from the Patriot League.

The next Damien Lillard or Stephen Curry, this guy is NOT. More likely, this guy will be the next Charles Jenkins.

Heh, heh, heh, heh!

[Murph]

And please Lord...take a pass on CJ McCollum. The guy turned the ball over almost as often as he dished an assist....for LEHIGH. Yes...Lehigh...that basketball powerhouse from the Patriot League.

The next Damien Lillard or Stephen Curry, this guy is NOT. More likely, this guy will be the next Charles Jenkins.

[Murph]

One other point I wanted to make regarding big men. I think Murph said his worst nightmare would be watching Hansbourgh play for Detroit for the next 3 years. I wonder if he watched him play tonight. That is the type of player we need coming off the bench. He is in great shape and gives everything he has all the time. He kicked our Pistons big men's asses for the past two years. And we have fans who don't like him. We all see things a little different don't we

Don...I missed the Miami/Indiana game. I really can't stand watching Miami.

But from the box score, I see Hansbrough finally had a decent game, in very limited minutes. For the post season though, Hansbrough is averaging 4.5 pts and 3.5 rbds, and shooting 42%...well below his season averages.

Taking Cody Zeller in a bad draft is one thing. I agree that he might be the best player available at the #8 spot.

But signing Tyler Hansbrough to a 5 year free agent contract is something altogether different. The guy is a scrub. He might be a hustling, hard working, undersized scrub...but he's still a scrub.

I mean, if we want a hustling, hard working, undersized scrub...let's just bring back JMax. We could probably get him cheaper than Hansbrough.

[Phil-Good]

CJ McCollum. I listen to his interview. This is A Joe Dumars kind of kid. If the Pistons took this kid I would not be shocked.


Anthony Bennett equals beast. Pistons could use another beast to go along with Andre Drummonds. It would be really hard to pass up on this kid. WOW!


Cody Zeller. Big, athletic, smart, skilled. If he there at 8 along with these other two it's going to be A really hard decision for Dumars and his staff.

It's going to be options for the Detroit Pistons at 8. Good options....

[cool breeze]

There some of you go again in thinking 2 and 3 years out. If this is the thinking of the organization then yeah we can all expect to be dealing with this half ass rebuilding process for a while. As I said before the need is to be thinking Bold Bigger Better and Badder and build to contend now for a title this coming season. This will require some sacrificing of a favorite or two one being Monroe.

Drafting Zeller allows for some wiggle room and he becomes a fail safe in the event we do trade Monroe. I still advocate the FA signing of Josh Smith and the serious discussion of trading for Bosh with Miami over the summer. There is no way anyone on Earth can convince me that a Bosh, Smith, Drummond starting front-court does not say title contender. Then having Zeller and Slava as backups virtually makes every team we play a jump shooting team.

There is no time to be wasting on 2014 dreams of getting any of the 2014 crop of free agents, but having Bosh on a 1 year rental give us a better shot at keeping him come 2014. So again I propose trading CV, Stuckey and Monroe straight up for Bosh, and move Heaven and Earth to convince Josh Smith to sign with us. If you all do the math on this it's not really costing us anything and Zeller may become a better player than Moose.

Wise, you're winning me over on the bigger bolder thingy!

I'm all for rolling the dice but not anything crazy!

IMO, Joe will never truly roll the dice, but I'm hoping for a good surprise!

Still, I think it will depend on the coach! If Joe gets the coach he wants, McMillian, I think his confidence to shoot his wad will be higher! If not, I think he goes conservative, but I'm hoping for the best!

BTW: Good one going on in Miami!

Oracle I have been saying for a long time that the Pistons should draft Zeller if given the opportunity. He is the type of player who will make the Pistons a better team. He runs the court as well as any big man in a long time. He has a mid range game that Monroe doesn't have. And he can play defense. Zeller and Drummond could cause a lot of problems with other teams. Drummond and Monroe will not ever be that good. As I watched the Miami-Indiana game tonight I kept asking myself, could a coach afford to even put Monroe on the floor in that type of game. I don't think so because Monroe is too damn slow and might be the worst defensive big man in the league. I still think that Phoenix will draft Zeller but if somehow Detroit can figure out a way to land him, we fans will be in store for a big change. The biggest reason our Pistons have sucked is because of our big men and their inability to play defense. Drew Sharp presented a article in the Free Press that every Piston fans should read because he is saying the same damn thing you mentioned Oracle. Monroe would bring a really good skill player to the Pistons in a trade. Sharp went on to say that Dumars will not be running things if the Piston team has the same look they did this past season.

One other point I wanted to make regarding big men. I think Murph said his worst nightmare would be watching Hansbourgh play for Detroit for the next 3 years. I wonder if he watched him play tonight. That is the type of player we need coming off the bench. He is in great shape and gives everything he has all the time. He kicked our Pistons big men's asses for the past two years. And we have fans who don't like him. We all see things a little different don't we

[Oracle]

There some of you go again in thinking 2 and 3 years out. If this is the thinking of the organization then yeah we can all expect to be dealing with this half ass rebuilding process for a while. As I said before the need is to be thinking Bold Bigger Better and Badder and build to contend now for a title this coming season. This will require some sacrificing of a favorite or two one being Monroe.

Drafting Zeller allows for some wiggle room and he becomes a fail safe in the event we do trade Monroe. I still advocate the FA signing of Josh Smith and the serious discussion of trading for Bosh with Miami over the summer. There is no way anyone on Earth can convince me that a Bosh, Smith, Drummond starting front-court does not say title contender. Then having Zeller and Slava as backups virtually makes every team we play a jump shooting team.

There is no time to be wasting on 2014 dreams of getting any of the 2014 crop of free agents, but having Bosh on a 1 year rental give us a better shot at keeping him come 2014. So again I propose trading CV, Stuckey and Monroe straight up for Bosh, and move Heaven and Earth to convince Josh Smith to sign with us. If you all do the math on this it's not really costing us anything and Zeller may become a better player than Moose.

Wise, you're winning me over on the bigger bolder thingy!

I'm all for rolling the dice but not anything crazy!

IMO, Joe will never truly roll the dice, but I'm hoping for a good surprise!

Still, I think it will depend on the coach! If Joe gets the coach he wants, McMillian, I think his confidence to shoot his wad will be higher! If not, I think he goes conservative, but I'm hoping for the best!

BTW: Good one going on in Miami!

[deusXango]

Lemon, the object is to get back into contention as soon as possible and prepare for the future; this is something we're not accustomed to because it's not Joe's way of doing business. Our #8 pick offers those type of options for us mainly because of our CAP flexibility vs. the unwise overspending of others, like Mark Cuban.

Joe's said there are no franchise players in this draft but, two lottery picks in this draft (with what we already have) can make a contending franchise almost immediately!! Next summer (if Monroe and Drummond do jell well together) it'll be time to wrap them up by putting some money on the table; that money will come from the expiring contracts we'll hold.

Sparma, I love your originality.

Merc, thanks for the feed and the use of your "thinking cap;" next year has more to offer than an outstanding draft class, it has some stellar FA's as well. In addition to holding on to our own there are a couple of very interesting prospects that we should be able to acquire if we want them; Thabo Sefolosha the starting SG and defensive perimeter stopper for the Thunder, and Jeffery Taylor an athletic SF who is vastly under rated and playing for Charlotte.

Don, what can be said about Joe that hasn't been already said on here? Here's a little something that should put a smile on your face that I'm sure you're not aware of; a local radio station called "The Ticket" 97.1 FM called Joe out today and ripped him a new one! This is a sports talk radio station and they're homers down there but, Joe's statement last night about there being no franchise players in the draft pissed off the on air personality to no end! He stated there was going to be a boycott on his show until Joe cut out the double talk and started making some real moves. He went on to say that Joe has been an insult to fans of the Pistons intelligence and said a lot of things we discuss on here. He was genuinely pissed and frustrated, and when he opened up the phone lines 90% of the callers agreed with him and no one seemed to support Joe. I wasn't able to catch it all but, it was classic.

That PF that no one seems to care for, Josh Smith, is needed in Detroit! Smith starting at SF makes more sense than Maxiell starting at PF, or Singler starting at SG. I'm watching the damage Hibbert, George, and "Psycho" Zeller is doing for Indiana and wonder what Drummond, Monroe, and Smith could do for us, especially with Cody Zeller coming off the bench! I put this question to all knowledgeable fans: can Smith adequately defend LeBron? Can he adequately defend Melo? What about Durant and Rudy Gay? How do you think he'll fare against Paul George? These are the top offensive SF's in the league and we don't have an adequate defender for them, hell Tayshaun wasn't capable for the last few years. Don't you think that's worth the occasional wild eyed 3 pt. jump shot? You hatin' because you don't think he's worth a max contract (you don't know what it'll really take for him....I notice that when some fans don't like a particular player, they play the max contract card) but, it's okay for a free throw shooter to hold out for $10 million a year and get fan support! Stuckey doesn't have a long range game and never did; he can't successfully drive and finish at the rim, only bull his way inside to get fouled and go to the line. The majority of his points come from the line! It's time to stop playing favorites and get this show on the road to success. We need Josh Smith to sign with Detroit if we're ever to establish any cred in the league as a place where good players want to go.

[merc]

Harden is calling and texting FAs to get them to consider the Rockets... I don't see anyone on the Pistons with enough street cred to help our cause.

[WTF]

There some of you go again in thinking 2 and 3 years out. If this is the thinking of the organization then yeah we can all expect to be dealing with this half ass rebuilding process for a while. As I said before the need is to be thinking Bold Bigger Better and Badder and build to contend now for a title this coming season. This will require some sacrificing of a favorite or two one being Monroe.

Drafting Zeller allows for some wiggle room and he becomes a fail safe in the event we do trade Monroe. I still advocate the FA signing of Josh Smith and the serious discussion of trading for Bosh with Miami over the summer. There is no way anyone on Earth can convince me that a Bosh, Smith, Drummond starting front-court does not say title contender. Then having Zeller and Slava as backups virtually makes every team we play a jump shooting team.

There is no time to be wasting on 2014 dreams of getting any of the 2014 crop of free agents, but having Bosh on a 1 year rental give us a better shot at keeping him come 2014. So again I propose trading CV, Stuckey and Monroe straight up for Bosh, and move Heaven and Earth to convince Josh Smith to sign with us. If you all do the math on this it's not really costing us anything and Zeller may become a better player than Moose.

[Oracle]

DX, that is the beauty of dealing for Marion... we could double dip on the return (which is what the Bobcats will do with BG)... it's worth looking at next years FA crop (when less teams will have $'s to compete)...
http://www.hoopsworld.com/2014-nba-free-agents

That's an EXCELLENT link... Thanks!!!

[Oracle]

Wise, I would probably agree with you, but Monroe is a very intelligent player with a good work ethic, and I think he will get better.

I got on him about his fear to act in crunch time, but I do know it's related to his lack of confidence in his jumper. That HAS to change!

Sparma, that's my biggest fear... staying in that twilight zone of never getting good enough to challenge, but not bad enough to get the picks to get better!

Then if we get unlucky and have limited cash to spend, we're toast for years!

[Oracle]

"Hire Jerry Stackhouse as coach. If he insisted he wanted to try to play, hire him as player-coach." - Sparma

No, as soon as he insisted he wanted to play, you fire his arse immediately because he would have officially lost his mind!!!

[WTF]

Drew Sharp: Pistons should consider drafting Cody Zeller, trading Greg Monroe

Why do people keep wanting to trade Monroe?

Because a lot of people, myself included get the feeling that Monroe has reached his ceiling and that perhaps we need to trade him while his value is very high. It's almost like a now or never deal.

Ok, I get that, but then we have to wait 3 more years to see if Zeller flatlines and we've lost 6 years!

I can understand "Thinking" Monroe has peaked, but I don't get the leap to making that a fact!

Obviously we don't get to see a lot of things people on the inside get to see about players, but from everything I see, Monroe is just like any young player that needs to add to his game and keep growing.

Now the fit with Drummond could be a problem, that much I will agree to, but we'll know a lot more next season. I do understand that it's a gamble because we'll have to do something about his contract so I see the urgency that you and others have about making a decision(now or over pay so to speak).

That's because we're not dealing in absolute it's all based potential. I too see the potential of a consistent 20-10 plus guy in Monroe, but at the same time see underlying hints of laziness that smells like an underachiever. We've already had this with Tay and Sheed and this seems to be the exact path of Moose, to do just enough to be relevant. Really he should be a lot further along going into year 4.

[Sparma]

Thanks Don. You've pleaded for a sincere, rather than half-hearted, rebuilding effort, as I remember. I'll hire you as co-GM.

Far-fetched as my scenario is, it's been nothing more than sensible for years to do a thorough rebuilding. Now, I'm worried that we're going to remain stuck in the in-between position for a long, long time. There's plenty of cause for hope because of our young talent and ability of spend, but the way the draft's playing out (including the patented sprint at the end of the season) is bringing out my gloomy side.

[cool breeze]

Who really gives a good goddamn that CV is picking up his option? With his production over the course of this contract with the Pistons, who among us wouldn't do the same? This ain't news, it's bullsh!t that's been over-reported for the last week or so!! For me it's a grim reminder of how stupid Joe Dumars can be.

This is damage control for sure dX. Trading Billups for Iverson and signing Gordon and Charlie V will go down as one of the most stupid things a GM has ever done period. Then again drafting Rodney White and Darko makes me want to cry still. By the way, Joe, great job winning those games at the end of the season. Is the owner saying what Dr. Evil used to say when he was fighting Austin Powers? "WHY AM I SURROUNDED BY IDIOTS"?

[cool breeze]

Faced with the grim reality of the Pistons being mediocre longterm, I've resorted to dreaming. If I were in charge, I'd enforce the Jerebko rule, getting rid of anyone older than him where possible. The aim would be not only to go with a full-fledged youth movement but also to land on our customary #8 spot or better in next year's excellent draft, averting the nightmare scenario of giving up a #9 or a bit lower to Charlotte next year.

Here's how:

1) Draft the best player available at #8, maybe Bennett (seems most likely to drop of the Big Six) or Zeller.
2) Cut loose all free agents, including my beloved Calderon. Fond farewells to Bynum, Maggette, and Maxiell.
3) Amnesty CV.
4) (Drawing from others), trade for Dallas' 1st round pick next year by taking on Shawn Marion's (10 mil?) salary, facilitating their Howard dreams. My understanding is that such trades can be made when in our cap situation. This neutralizes much of the effect of the hideous Gordon trade.
5) Refrain from picking up the team option on Stuckey.
6) Pick up the team option on Kim English.
7) Search for other deals of the kind proposed for Marion, aware that I need to spend at 90% of the cap leval (I think).
8)Consider trades and free agent signing only for those 26 and below.
9) Roll over savings until after next year's draft.
10) Fill out the roster with the 2 second rounders and undrafted free agents, as needed. As a token of appreciation, extend a camp invitation to Alex Acker, if he meets the Jerebko rule.
11) Hire Jerry Stackhouse as coach. If he insisted he wanted to try to play, hire him as player-coach.

We should easily manage to land in a top 8 spot for next year's draft, acquiring that additional stud we need beyond Monroe and AD. If we didn't, it would mean that we had made significant progress in a manner that could be sustained for the long term.

I will e-mail Mr. Gores and put in a good word for you to replace Joe Dumars. This post makes a lot of sense Sparma. Good work!

[lemonpen]

What, no trade up options.
Which would you rather have materialize first, a #1 pick or a playoff spot.
I wanna win. And soon.
Parking FA $$$ until 2014 is ok, but only after fully exploring every option to improve our draft position THEN after seeking serious upgrades via the 2013 FA crop AND someone elses CAP saving trades.
It seems somewhat disinginuous (sp) to start this summer out by planning for next summer, particularly when we have so much leverage now.

[merc]

DX, that is the beauty of dealing for Marion... we could double dip on the return (which is what the Bobcats will do with BG)... it's worth looking at next years FA crop (when less teams will have $'s to compete)...
http://www.hoopsworld.com/2014-nba-free-agents

[Sparma]

Faced with the grim reality of the Pistons being mediocre longterm, I've resorted to dreaming. If I were in charge, I'd enforce the Jerebko rule, getting rid of anyone older than him where possible. The aim would be not only to go with a full-fledged youth movement but also to land on our customary #8 spot or better in next year's excellent draft, averting the nightmare scenario of giving up a #9 or a bit lower to Charlotte next year.

Here's how:

1) Draft the best player available at #8, maybe Bennett (seems most likely to drop of the Big Six) or Zeller.
2) Cut loose all free agents, including my beloved Calderon. Fond farewells to Bynum, Maggette, and Maxiell.
3) Amnesty CV.
4) (Drawing from others), trade for Dallas' 1st round pick next year by taking on Shawn Marion's (10 mil?) salary, facilitating their Howard dreams. My understanding is that such trades can be made when in our cap situation. This neutralizes much of the effect of the hideous Gordon trade.
5) Refrain from picking up the team option on Stuckey.
6) Pick up the team option on Kim English.
7) Search for other deals of the kind proposed for Marion, aware that I need to spend at 90% of the cap leval (I think).
8)Consider trades and free agent signing only for those 26 and below.
9) Roll over savings until after next year's draft.
10) Fill out the roster with the 2 second rounders and undrafted free agents, as needed. As a token of appreciation, extend a camp invitation to Alex Acker, if he meets the Jerebko rule.
11) Hire Jerry Stackhouse as coach. If he insisted he wanted to try to play, hire him as player-coach.

We should easily manage to land in a top 8 spot for next year's draft, acquiring that additional stud we need beyond Monroe and AD. If we didn't, it would mean that we had made significant progress in a manner that could be sustained for the long term.

[deusXango]

NBA Draft Rumors: Should Detroit swap its No. 8 pick?

Oracle, I really fell in love with the Dallas scenario where we ended up keeping #8 and receiving their #14; if that #55 and #8 plus a player could be packaged to move up into the top 5 it would be a dream come true. If we were stuck with #8 and #14 I'd find that just as great because of who I'm sold on (Zeller or even Bennett at #8 and Dario Saric or Tony Mitchell at #14, with a kicker of Ray McCallum at #38); I'm doing cartwheels over thinking about what can be done when Marion, Villanueva, Stuckey, and Jerebko expire next year! Two years in a row with beau coup CAP bucks to spend; WOW!

[deusXango]

Who really gives a good goddamn that CV is picking up his option? With his production over the course of this contract with the Pistons, who among us wouldn't do the same? This ain't news, it's bullsh!t that's been over-reported for the last week or so!! For me it's a grim reminder of how stupid Joe Dumars can be.

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