Good Observation Murph

[WTF]

Maybe I'm kidding myself, but I just don't think the personnel on this team is that bad. I know we have a lot of rookies playing right now, and I know the schedule has been brutal. But I'm beginning to think that Lil Larry is a significant part of the problem. Nothing in Lil Larry past history has he ever indicated that he's a good coach. His Nets teams got worse and worse almost every year, and this Pistons team isn't doing any better, in spite of it's talent on paper. It might be time to replace Lil Larry

The other thing I'm starting to worry about is that with the easier schedule, the Pistons will start to play respectably in the 2nd half of the season, like last year. The Pistons won't win enough games to contend; but they might win enough games to make it seem as if Lil Larry knows what he's doing, which will postpone his firing for another season or two.

IMO, this team has enough talent and potential that Gores needs to end Lil Larry's tenure sonner rather than later, and sign an accomplished coach to a big long term contract, and stick with him. Jerry Sloan perhaps? Gores...make it happen.


IMO, this team misses Big Ben Wallace in the worst way. I know it didn't make any sense to bring Wallace back for one more season at the ag of 38 to soak up minutes that are going to the younger players. However, IMO, this team is going through serious growing pains without him there to anchore the defense.


You know who's playing really well this year at the point?...Kemba Walker. Just saying...

Lets stop fooling ourselve's into thinking things will truly get better under Frank's direction, because it won't. I don't doubt that Frank has study the game immensely, but he was never a player so everything with him would be like saying on paper shit should work.

Knight was suppose to be right there with Kyrie and Kemba, but he's not and that is in large part Frank's fault that he's not. Even the likes of Isiah Thomas to name another has shown way more consistency at the PG position than Knight has. I'm sorry but Knight doesn't perform as a Top 10 selection. Now Kyrie turns the ball just as much as Knight if not more but Kyrie puts up 24pt a game, you can say the same about vets like Westbrook and Rondo Brandon 11pt is 28th amongst PG in scoring his shooting % SUCKS! and for every 6 ast he gives back 4 in turnovers.

[deusXango]

Keep in mind folks, L. Frank and OUR Pistons lost to a Rockets team, which was being coached by Kelvin Sampson, as Kevin McHale has taken a personal leave from the team.

Remember that Sampson was a candidate for the Pistons Head Coaching job.

Frank has got to go!!!

Instead of blaming the coach, how about dealing with the fact that Houston is A better team then Detroit is At this point in the season no matter who is coaching?

Sorry I'm old school. I look in the mirror before I point fingers at anybody! We have to stop blaming coaches as the excuse why the Pistons suck. This is A rebuilding project and it's very ugly right now.

Look in the mirror Phillip, and ask yourself, "is the coach playing the best rotation he can?" "Is this the group I'd have starting?" "Is the coach putting in offensive sets that best suit the talent we have?" "Is our coach making the in-game adjustments to keep us competitive?" "Does our coach put us in the best position to win?" If you can answer "yes" to any of those questions then I fully understand why you'd come on here and try'n check Sebastian. The points made by Sebastian are valid, and I stand with him (particularly in view of the fact that James Harden has been the main ass-kicker; you remember, the player we found all sorts of flaws in, because of his well deserved contract demands?). We got to be better than Houston! We've had players, good players, who've been working together all summer, and into the pre-season Lil' Larry said he needed, and Houston's players are unfamiliar with one another, for the most part. I'm gonna suggest that you take off the rose colored glasses, drop them to the ground, smash & grind them under foot, and then take a clear look at Lil' Larry. Just a suggestion.

[WTF]

Keep in mind folks, L. Frank and OUR Pistons lost to a Rockets team, which was being coached by Kelvin Sampson, as Kevin McHale has taken a personal leave from the team.

Remember that Sampson was a candidate for the Pistons Head Coaching job.

Frank has got to go!!!

Instead of blaming the coach, how about dealing with the fact that Houston is A better team then Detroit is At this point in the season no matter who is coaching?

Sorry I'm old school. I look in the mirror before I point fingers at anybody! We have to stop blaming coaches as the excuse why the Pistons suck. This is A rebuilding project and it's very ugly right now.

Look in the mirror Phillip, and ask yourself, "is the coach playing the best rotation he can?" "Is this the group I'd have starting?" "Is the coach putting in offensive sets that best suit the talent we have?" "Is our coach making the in-game adjustments to keep us competitive?" "Does our coach put us in the best position to win?" If you can answer "yes" to any of those questions then I fully understand why you'd come on here and try'n check Sebastian. The points made by Sebastian are valid, and I stand with him (particularly in view of the fact that James Harden has been the main ass-kicker; you remember, the player we found all sorts of flaws in, because of his well deserved contract demands?). We got to be better than Houston! We've had players, good players, who've been working together all summer, and into the pre-season Lil' Larry said he needed, and Houston's players are unfamiliar with one another, for the most part. I'm gonna suggest that you take off the rose colored glasses, drop them to the ground, smash & grind them under foot, and then take a clear look at Lil' Larry. Just a suggestion.

DX he needs to change his name to YES BOY though PISS BOY is okay appropriate as well. He can't answer yes to any of those questions about Frank. Not only is his glasses Rose Colored they're Shit Stained, how in the life he comes up with the notion that these are typical growing pains of youthfulness is pure nonsense.

[Sparma2]

I agree with Murph there's some decent talent on the team. In spite of my desire for the team to gain one of the very highest picks, my guess is that the Pistons will have a similar season to last year's, playing halfway decently after a horrible start. We can hope against hope that Larry won't be part of this year's recovery. I wonder if we could have a chance at the crumbs wiped off the table by the Lakers, namely Sloan or D'Antoni.

[deusXango]

Rodney Stuckey floundered around for 4 years at the PG position, and we had all the patience in the world with him (we're still dicking around with this guy, and his game continues going south), but 7 games deep into his 2nd season we're ready to throw Brandon Knight on the garbage heap. I don't get it. If I had my choice of druther's, I'd rather put up with Knight's growing pain turnovers, than those ball-hogging, ill-advised shots (if you could call them that) I suffered through with Stuckey. Stuckey couldn't shoot from the outside, and was an equally inept finisher at the rim; Knight can do both. What he can't do is control himself, and therefore the team and game. Self control is taught by the coach, and game control as well, ie. Rick Carlisle, Doug Collins, Larry Brown, and there are some young coaches in the NBA who understand these principals as well, sadly, Lil' Larry ain't one of them.

At this point only a major change will salvage the investment that's been made in the franchise's future, and make no mistake about it, the investment is worthwhile. Aside from the obvious coaching snafu's, the pure laziness of Joe Dumars need addressing by ownership. How can a "team" of ownership advisors sleep on the fact that Dumars should have removed some players from the roster by now? CV should've been gone! Before the Olympic tryouts, his ass should have been traded for a couple of veteran bench players (he and Daye could have been traded for Andrus Blatche; don't laugh!). Blatche would look better on the floor than Maxiell, as a starter, and he's not playing knuckleheaded this year. The fact is Joe Dumars could've and should've traded away Bynum, Prince, Daye, and maybe Stuckey for a veteran PG long ago; Andre Miller for example. We've not had to have Joe make sows ears into silk purses, just make some sensible moves instead of sitting on his ass.

Our PG in the front office is Tom Gores, and I want to see how he directs this team; how offensive minded is he? Will he call out the right plays? What he does is gonna translate on the floor.

[merc]

Not looking at this draft for providing a game changer for us (believe Shabazz is ineligible)... if we find a way to trade consecutive picks this might be the best option for a quick recovery.

[WTF]

I'm not saying we throw Knight in the garbage, but what I'm saying is he's shown no indications of being in the process of ever learning how to play the right way. Knight like Stuckey have all the talent in the world but neither are fundamentally sound, Stuckey under 4 coaches and Knight under Lil Larry. TYhe only time Stuckey has look like PG in the making was his only year under Flip and with the mentoring of CB, after that it's been all down hill.

My fear is that already we are on the same path of excuses and acceptance we had with Stuckey in the past and I don't want the same for Knight. It is silly to me IMO to be assuming his greatness at this point like we did with Stuckey or should I say some of us did. NBA games are not just a race up and down the court, there is a balance that Knight simply won't learn under Frank. Blindly run up and down the court is not learning.

[Oracle]

I've watched the games, and with this team being almost a new team, some settling down should be expected.

While a lot of the names haven't changed, the positions have. Knight & Stuckey have fully reversed roles.

I don't, and have never wanted Frank, and believe we need a different coach, but I can't lay all, or even most of the blame at his feet for this awful start.

Knight is looking more like a scrub than a potential star... is that coaching?

Moose is getting better, but he can be off and on... is that coaching?

Prince has been a slug for the most part, and Maxiell, while playing pretty good, can't carry the team... is that coaching?

Singler, English & JJ have played well, does Frank get credit for that?

IMO, the answer to all of that is no! It's too early to assign blame or credit, this team is trying to develop some chemistry that only shows itself after playing consistently together for some time.

The biggest crime on Larry's tenure so far this year is that he hasn't been consistent(or smart) enough finding a winning lineup.

But then again, Larry Brown tinkered for almost half a season before he settled on a good lineup(although that was only in his first year).

[WTF]

Mr. Oracle I see your point but can only partly agree. Knights issues is clearly with fundamentals which results largely to his poor decisions and turnovers. His turnoves are not a rsult of players being out of position or the opposing teams great defense they're all from poor decision making and that's not a chemistry issue that's a coaching issue.

Of course Singler, JJ and English would play well and they should considering they stayed in school long enough the required fundamentals so no you don't contribute that to the coach. JJ and Singler spent time overseas playing professionally.

I agree there is no chemistry right now, nothing much has change with our starting five from last season or our main 2 subs (Bynum and JJ) so there really should be any chemistry issues. They only added Drummond, Singler and English into the mix, but the bulk of issues are with the same five players that ended the season last year starting. This is a coaching issue because he needs to address the poor play.

[WTF]

[Grizz2]

Rodney Stuckey floundered around for 4 years at the PG position, and we had all the patience in the world with him (we're still dicking around with this guy, and his game continues going south), but 7 games deep into his 2nd season we're ready to throw Brandon Knight on the garbage heap. I don't get it. If I had my choice of druther's, I'd rather put up with Knight's growing pain turnovers, than those ball-hogging, ill-advised shots (if you could call them that) I suffered through with Stuckey. Stuckey couldn't shoot from the outside, and was an equally inept finisher at the rim; Knight can do both. What he can't do is control himself, and therefore the team and game. Self control is taught by the coach, and game control as well, ie. Rick Carlisle, Doug Collins, Larry Brown, and there are some young coaches in the NBA who understand these principals as well, sadly, Lil' Larry ain't one of them.

At this point only a major change will salvage the investment that's been made in the franchise's future, and make no mistake about it, the investment is worthwhile. Aside from the obvious coaching snafu's, the pure laziness of Joe Dumars need addressing by ownership. How can a "team" of ownership advisors sleep on the fact that Dumars should have removed some players from the roster by now? CV should've been gone! Before the Olympic tryouts, his ass should have been traded for a couple of veteran bench players (he and Daye could have been traded for Andrus Blatche; don't laugh!). Blatche would look better on the floor than Maxiell, as a starter, and he's not playing knuckleheaded this year. The fact is Joe Dumars could've and should've traded away Bynum, Prince, Daye, and maybe Stuckey for a veteran PG long ago; Andre Miller for example. We've not had to have Joe make sows ears into silk purses, just make some sensible moves instead of sitting on his ass.

Our PG in the front office is Tom Gores, and I want to see how he directs this team; how offensive minded is he? Will he call out the right plays? What he does is gonna translate on the floor.

Absolutely DX .. absolutely .. the PG is an extension of the HC's offensive system ... and in LF's case .. it sucks ... real bad ... Knight has a lot going for him talent wise .. That is why it is so dangerous to have clowns for coaches .. For they screw up promising careers .... 3 straight clown coaches for the Pistons .. Stuckey never had a chance .. Here's a novel idea .. why dont we get a good coach, not even a great one, and then decide if it is on the players .. ???!!!! 3 Rotten Coaches in a row .. This is the most important decision there is for a GM or Owner .. Lets move on from Larry "Blame the Players" Frank ...

[Grizz2]

Nate McMillan ... Bill Laimbeer.....Mike D’Antoni .... Mike Dunleavy... Isaih Thomas ....Mike Brown... I would still roll with Bad Boy Bill .. NM is the next best choice .. I would like the Captain as well as a shock choice .. and he knows PG as well as anyone .. and still better than LFrankNBeanBlame

[Phil-Good]

Man it is what it is.

Sorry, I don't see the end of the world. I don't panic! I don't see doomsday coming.

I see A young team, trying to learn how to compete in the NBA and I see some parts that fit and many that don't.

I like the message that Frank is giving, I like Joe Dumars draft picks and I like where this team is trying to go.

Eventually Big Drummonds will be the starting Center. Stuckey, Prince, Daye, and Charlie V will be gone.


A few good trades, A lot of growth from within, some good health, hard work, commitment to defense and Detroit will be back as A top team in the League.

All this can happen in 1 summer. Sorry but I don't PANIC! I let you other Piston fans do that. And you all have every right to.

[Grizz2]

Man it is what it is.

Sorry, I don't see the end of the world. I don't panic! I don't see doomsday coming.

I see A young team, trying to learn how to compete in the NBA and I see some parts that fit and many that don't.

I like the message that Frank is giving, I like Joe Dumars draft picks and I like where this team is trying to go.

Eventually Big Drummonds will be the starting Center. Stuckey, Prince, Daye, and Charlie V will be gone.


A few good trades, A lot of growth from within, some good health, hard work, commitment to defense and Detroit will be back as A top team in the League.

All this can happen in 1 summer. Sorry but I don't PANIC! I let you other Piston fans do that. And you all have every right to.

I agree that Joe has made some great draft picks recently .. Not calling him to be replaced .... and Joe did not choose Frank ...no blame to him ....

[Oracle]

I don't think the people that are complaining are in panic mode, just rightful frustration, I feel the same way!

It's a legitimate feeling to want to get rid of Frank, hell, I wanted him gone BEFORE he was having these current troubles, I've never thought he was the coach for this team.

However, he's the coach of record, and IMO, deserves the chance of working this out, but he doesn't have long.

In LA, Mike Brown could have lasted the season if Kobe backed him, but Kobe didn't want him, Howard was probably indifferent, and Nash wanted Dantoni(sp), but would accept the Zen Master.

Here, we don't have a strong enough personality to make that kind of change, so it's on Gores, since Frank is his man, Joe probably won't make that call, although he'll be the one to fire him!

Which is the reverse of the Carlisle situation, where Carlisle was Joe's man, but Mr. D couldn't stand him, so Joe had to fire him!

[WTF]

Personally the team could lose 20 in row, but it's what coming out of these loses that are an issue. Are the players learning, and properly being developed? Is there a plan moving forward and is it solid?

No matter what is being said the team isn't in a true rebuild until it effectively remove Tay, JMax and Bynum from the rotation completely and start giving all those minutes to JJ, Singler, Drummond and English. You're not even close to rebuilding with Tay, Bynum and Jmax getting the bulk of PT.

[Sebastian]

Personally the team could lose 20 in row, but it's what coming out of these loses that are an issue. Are the players learning, and properly being developed? Is there a plan moving forward and is it solid?

No matter what is being said the team isn't in a true rebuild until it effectively remove Tay, JMax and Bynum from the rotation completely and start giving all those minutes to JJ, Singler, Drummond and English. You're not even close to rebuilding with Tay, Bynum and Jmax getting the bulk of PT.

Yo, Wise, and fellow Pistons fans, here's the deal: WE are not getting better as a team with L. Frank.

Allow me to preface this next statement by stating the obvious: WE are not the Lakers, but you'll heard the sound bite of Mitch Kupchak, when he stated that Mike Brown was fired because Lakers brass just felt like their squad was not improving, under Brown's leadership as Head Coach.

Again, WE are not the Lakers, but let's be real folks, OUR guys are not improving under L. Frank.

After tonight's lost to the Thunder, Gores needs to give Joe his orders and fire L. Frank.

Next, hire Zeke. Isiah is the coach that OUR Pistons need going forward. Zeke would be the best man for the job of tutoring B. Knight and Stuckey, too. Also, I would think that Zeke would recognize from Jump Street, Front Street, and 6 Championship Drive that Moose and Dre Drummond should both be playing (starting), together.

Sidenote: As much as WE have all complained about Moose and Dre not playing together. The two have not been on the floor with B. Knight, very much either.

L. Frank may had been okay for the ridiculous, compressed 66-game schedule, last season, he is not the answer going forward, because again: WE are not getting better, WE are getting worst.

Come on Gores and Joe!

[Oracle]

To shut his pie hole!

He has a couple of good games, and now he's calling folks out? WTF?

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[Rett]

Stuckey is the Biggest disappointment....he is as inconsistent as always.

He is what he is...and he is what he isn't.
Never going to change.


Really rough start to the season....but, lots of new guys...trying to mesh and all...and let's face it...with a couple of exceptions (Monroe, Drummond)......our players are NOT that good...

[WTF]

Prince say's "Guys are upset — don't get me wrong — and trying to figure things out. It's just that you have to dig down deep and find out what can you do to help our team, whether it's defense and 'I'm gonna stop my guy tonight.'"

Yeah like he's does when opposing elite SF are whipping on his ass, he relly dig deep. After that ass whipping Lebron put on him in the ECF he should be talking about effort.

[lemonpen]

I've watched the games, and with this team being almost a new team, some settling down should be expected.

While a lot of the names haven't changed, the positions have. Knight & Stuckey have fully reversed roles.
I have been under the impression that top shelf scorers could git-er-done in their sleep. Me thinks Stuckey has been busted.

I don't, and have never wanted Frank, and believe we need a different coach, but I can't lay all, or even most of the blame at his feet for this awful start.
Ditto

Knight is looking more like a scrub than a potential star... is that coaching?
Yes, I think so. But, in a good way. I believe BK7 is being coached to push the ball at every opportunity. Even to create opportunities. He is sometimes aggressive beyond control. Even in the half court. Sometimes Brandon is correct but his teammates don't properly react to situations. It takes time and repititions at game speed to develop the knack.

Moose is getting better, but he can be off and on... is that coaching?
Moose becomes an All Star when he starts hitting the 15 footer consistently. Then the coach will look smarter.

Prince has been a slug for the most part, and Maxiell, while playing pretty good, can't carry the team... is that coaching?
Only in their high number of minutes played.

Singler, English & JJ have played well, does Frank get credit for that?
In the case of Singler I'm gonna give credit to Cory for being true to form and getting injured. If nothing else give Frank credit for preserving JJ from further injury last year by keeping the minutes down. Frank deserves a little flack for not allowing English some of Yuckeys minutes.

IMO, the answer to all of that is no! It's too early to assign blame or credit, this team is trying to develop some chemistry that only shows itself after playing consistently together for some time.

The biggest crime on Larry's tenure so far this year is that he hasn't been consistent(or smart) enough finding a winning lineup.
I question our total inability to get any production out of the NBA staple offensive play. A pick & roll.

But then again, Larry Brown tinkered for almost half a season before he settled on a good lineup(although that was only in his first year).

[WTF]

Stuckey is the Biggest disappointment....he is as inconsistent as always.

He is what he is...and he is what he isn't.
Never going to change.


Really rough start to the season....but, lots of new guys...trying to mesh and all...and let's face it...with a couple of exceptions (Monroe, Drummond)......our players are NOT that good...

Who in the hell kidnapped my Boo!

This sounds like a frustrated Rett and that's unheard of around these parts. Dang it must really be bleak....

[cool breeze]

This last game against Houston needs to be forgotten. However, Prince was the only player who showed up to play. I played in college and thought that 2 games in 3 days was almost impossible to do if you go all out in that first game. The NBA is played at such a faster pace that it is just crazy to think of how anyone could survive playing the amount of games the Pistons played over the past 10 days while constantly traveling. And guys like Brandon Knight played their asses off in that OKC game the night before playing Houston. A young team cannot handle it and especially this early in the season. It is a bold face lie to say the things some of you are saying about Prince. I thought he played a great game against OKC while having to guard Durant the entire night. As a group, the Pistons played very well at OKC. That is a good sign. Prince spoke the truth in the Detroit News today when he said that he will play hard and do other things when his shot is not falling. True to form, Prince was the only player who gave a really good effort in this last game on defense. Stuckey has always had a difficult time playing the other parts of the game when he is not handling the ball a lot and when his shots are not falling. You can bet that Prince's comments were directed to Stuckey. He has lived through the long road trips. He is not a rookie or a 2nd year player. The excuses end this season for Stuckey. He will bust out of his slump but when he does, will he be consistant in all areas of the game? When the next slump in shooting comes, will Stuckey play hard on defense rather than softer? Knight had his worst game since he bacame a Piston in this last game against Houston. However, I do not worry about Brandon Knight. He will be a great player in this league. It is a sure thing as far as I am concerned.

The thing that has haunted the Pistons so far is the lack of good defense by the guards. This hurt them last season. I saw Stuckey going through the motions in the last game. As this problem is not going to go away soon, it is that more important to make sure the Pistons have size to guard the paint. That is why Maxiell is killing this team. When I read in the Detroit News that Maxiell is the one bright spot, I wonder who those reporters really are and why they are writing such nonsense. Maxiell cannot stop anyone on defense very often. He does take some charges but he cannot guard the weak side or rebound the basketball on the weak side. The coaching staff must be trying to gradually get Drummond used to playing more minutes. He is not in the best shape for sure but as this seasons moves forward, Maxiell's minutes has to move down to no more than 10 minutes a game. Why is the Russian not getting any time? He is a shot blocker and a good rebounder. He is tough and can guard the weak side. Prince and the two guards are in much better balance with Maxiell on the bench playing with two NBA size big men.

Frank looks confused. He has no back up point guard. Bynum started the season dominating the basketball and using up the entire shot clock with dribbling but early on his shot was falling. Bynum is a liability on defense against big guards. When the starters are sluggish, the coach brings in Bynum to lead the second team. I feel sorry for those rookies who have to play with Bynum. He sure doesn't help to make them look good. You will see Singler or English standing on the baseline with no defender in the area and they never get the pass on time. Bynum is so short that he cannot see over the defense so he doesn't look opposite. There is a Mother-Son bond between Frank and Bynum. Frank has passed his short genes on to his son and is trying to prove that short men can succeed in the NBA. How can Frank sacrifice his own son for the good of the team?

The head coach is ignoring the obvious regarding Maxiell and Bynum. He could end up losing his job because if it. I do not see how it will be possible for the Pistons to beat many teams this season if Frank doesn't come to terms with the capabilities of his players. For those of you who were on the Charlie V bandwagon, did you watch him in action against Houston? That performance should get Charlie zero playing time for the rest of the season. It will be a crime if he plays one more minute. Unlike the other players, Charlie was fresh. But he still couldn't or didn't try to keep up with anyone. This is what stood out concerning Charlie. He didn't play hard on defense or get in the correct position quick enough to be effective either on offense or defense. He didn't rebound well. And he has lost his shooting touch while putting up a lot of shots and not hitting any. Daye, on the other hand did something for his cause. He hit some shots and played hard. The Pistons just can't go with him at power forward but I think he might have earned more playing time with that performance. I would rather see Daye playing point guard as crazy that that sounds rather than watching Bynum enter the game.

[WTF]

Cool Breeze say's For those of you who were on the Charlie V bandwagon, did you watch him in action against Houston? That performance should get Charlie zero playing time for the rest of the season. It will be a crime if he plays one more minute. Unlike the other players, Charlie was fresh. But he still couldn't or didn't try to keep up with anyone. This is what stood out concerning Charlie. He didn't play hard on defense or get in the correct position quick enough to be effective either on offense or defense. He didn't rebound well. And he has lost his shooting touch while putting up a lot of shots and not hitting any."



I knew you could wait, but I had a prepared response waiting. So you're complaining about CV doing in 9 minutes what the rest of the team did for 3 plus quarters. Come on Cool your dislike is well beyond basketball when you can moan about a players effort in a game that's already decided.

[WTF]

Why would he come in a play hard in a blowout? He only shot 5 time how is that too many it not like he was 3 for 12 like JJ or 0 for 5 like Singler. Oops I forgot they were tired and CV was fresh Maybe it would have been a good time to give Daye and Charlie minutes early like say in the 2nd quarter. If was CV I would n't went in the game to play Frank's stank ass 9 minute remaining in a blow.

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