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dont shoot the messenger

Post  Griizzz on Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:49 am

Lemon .. like Oracle says you do have a point about why Frank may be hesitant about using Drummond .. he is going to get beat and beat bad at times and it could lose the game? So what you say JUST EXPLAINS how Frank looks at it .. AND YOU ARE NO doubt right at how Frank looks at it .. Dont want to shoot the messenger on this .. All I want to say to Frank is: (1) we are going to lose if we dont use Drummond anyway .. (2) Over time .. Drummond will improve a lot faster being thrown into games with support and with mentoring every daya and every game ..It is even possible that a herky jerky lack of playing time approach will severely hamper Drummonds career .. See Aaron Afflalo as an example of someone who was held back for no good reason .. and prospered elsewhere

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Good Analysis

Post  Murph on Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:32 am

Sparma2 wrote:As a longtime Joe fan, I've nevertheless become disillusioned with his recent performance. In baseball, the notion of wins about a replacement level player is used. How would Joe fare with respect to wins above a replacement GM [WAG]? Langlois points to hitting on three straight lottery picks. Indeed, but Joe gets few if any WAG points for drafting Monroe, Knight, and Drummond. I do give him points for some solid second round picks (Jerebko, Singler, English), even though the replacement level GM would occasionally pick a good second rounders. Maybe he gets some points for a reasonable Stuckey contract. On the other side, I subtract massive points for the Gordon trade (although the final tally lies in the future). Further points off for the length of the Prince contract. Going back in time, we find the lousy Gordon and Charlie V signings, a series of bad contracts, with Rip's as the worst, and the trading of Afflalo. Of course, all GMs will make some bad moves, but it looks to me like Joe's been performing below replacement level for years.

His incredible early performance wins him a big cushion, but I need to see some significant moves beyond replacement soon to support his staying.

Sparma...excellent analysis. I still don't want Joe fired, but excellent analysis. I never thought about looking at Joe's career in that light.


Lemonpen...I agree. Drummond is a 19 year old rook. He's been working hard, but when he was drafted by the Pistons, he wasn't in great shape. He's in good shape now, but there's a big difference between being in good shape, and being in NBA shape. It often takes rookies a year or two to get into NBA shape. That's why they usually experience the "rookie wall", along about Febuary. Rooks aren't use to the 82 game grind of the NBA, 10 day road trips, and back-to-back games.

And speaking of back-to-back games, the Sacramento game was the 2nd game of a back-to-back. The previous night Drummond had played effectively in Denver (the McGhee dunk notwithstanding). Against Sac-town, Drummond was not very effective. Furthermore, Drummond was testy with the press the night before, which indicates a certain mental fatigue. I'm sure all of the above are reasons Drummond only played 6 minutes against the Kings.

Singler seems to be holding up much better under the NBA grind. Of course Singler is 24 years old, played professionally in Europe, and came to camp in much better shape than Drummond.

Patience...


Seriously folks...it seems as if this team in on the verge of turning the corner. I'm not sure Lil Larry is up to the task, and if he isn't, he can be easily replaced next season. But this team has some serious talent, and given enough time, and a reasonable schedule, the Pistons should play well, and turn in a respectable season.
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Pistons Defense

Post  Oracle on Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:39 am

Lil Larry wrote:
At the Pistons' core, their defense starts with guard Brandon Knight and Rodney Stuckey. While Frank wants improvement from everyone on the defensive end, he said he's not about to give Knight what he feels is the easy way out by switching Stuckey onto opposing point guards if Knight is having a rough evening.

In this article([Only admins are allowed to see this link]), Frank is starting to get tougher about our defense, which was the difference in the last half of the season. We all know that if, I mean WHEN they get this corrected, we'll see a better team, and the wins will come!

BTW, one more quote from the article that was interesting!

The Pistons are last in rebounding, 28th in scoring defense and are giving up offensive rebounds by the bushel.

Surprisingly, Frank hasn't put Monroe and Andre Drummond on the floor together. They are their two best defensive rebounders. Drummond played six minutes Wednesday.

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Murph

Post  Oracle on Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:43 am

I'm beginning to believe that Frank has a good plan, but that the team has been slow to get on board.

I totally agree with your call for patience, things are beginning to come together!
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Murph and Oracle

Post  WTF on Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:24 am

Oracle wrote:I'm beginning to believe that Frank has a good plan, but that the team has been slow to get on board.

I totally agree with your call for patience, things are beginning to come together!

Much respect for the both you and I would agree whole-heartedly if this wasn't a rebuilding process or is it? I can agree that Lil Larry has a great knowledge of X's and O's but it's clearly not a plan for rebuilding and youth development.

This team could turn the corner and run off 20 straight wins for all we know, but if it happens with English and Drummond playing a combined 16 minutes most nights then its really all for not. To me the process of rebuilding is being dragged out.

Murph I can see and feel you on the Drummond thing, but I show nothing of his play that indicated only 6 minutes of PT being warranted and the same thing with the 12 minutes in Denver the other night. Drummond might not be in NBA shape after 5 games but this is true for half the league players but it's not a reason to play Drummond even if he is a rookie. How do a player get NBA ready? By playing games not sitting on the bench.

I'm sure Drummond is frustrated, the whole team should be frustrated because they're 0-5 clearly many fans are. This way I hate the NBA ESPN Hype Machine, they hype these players like they're the next coming of Ewing and, Akeem and then coaches make all these shit ass excuses about not playing them. Just imagine Ewing and Akeem getting treated like this. Why f**king draft these players if they're not ready to play maybe we should have just traded the pick to Denver for McGee so we can have a real starting center. facepalm

Okay I vented, again

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ORACLE

Post  deusXango on Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:19 am

Oracle wrote:
IMO, Joe is really on the hot seat, and that's why we may see activity on changes ASAP!

Either play Daye & CV, or move them! This silliness of night after night of DNPCD's is embarrassing for them and the organization, and exposes poor management(GM'ing).

Something needs to be done quickly, and I believe Joe will either do it or he's done!

Oracle, I hope that you're right for a number of reasons, but to address the point you made regarding the exposure of poor management (the GM) by the coach is a real eye opener, for those who's payed attention to what you stated. Regardless of what the casual fan may think of Charlie V, there's no reason he shouldn't be given a chance to play his way back to, at least, minimal respectability. He's a 6' 10", "stretch 4," playing on a reasonable contract; he could be a valuable trade piece, if not for the mounting DNPCD's. This was a FA signing (that's not working for us) that the GM should have the support of his coach to swap for what the coaches needs are, personel wise. Daye was an ill-advised 1st round pick, that's in the last year of his contract; ill-advised or not, he was a mid 1st rounder, and as such should have some trade value. The kid is young still, and who knows? Again, the dreaded DNPCD's rears it's ugly head, leaving the GM hamstrung at the trading table, and this is all while Prince is sleepwalking around the court, Bynum is raising hell, brown-nosing himself some minutes, but who wants Bynum and for what? Lil' Larry is a mother*****r, in more ways than one.

I'm hoping Joe pulls the trigger on a real deal soon, and that deal is bringing Josh Smith to the Pistons, so we may have a top tier player to be the cornerstone of our rebuild. With Monroe and Smith on the frontline, it would be sooo much simpler to start young Drummond (and give him his 6-12 minutes) than allowing him to languish on the bench, cutting his teeth on 2nd tier players. 'Ya want to bring him along slow? Do that, but it's a sensible way to do that.
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Frank is a POS as a head coach

Post  Grizz2 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:41 am

So the latest Detroit News article is titled .. how Frank is IRKED BY his player's lack of defense and effort ... His continual whining about how his players dont play hard IRKS THE HELL OUT OF ME Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil ... All Frank is doing is shifting the blame for losses onto his players off his own failings as a head coach .. Would love to hear what he said publicly as his Net players were in the 16 straight losses to start that season ..

I am sorry but all I ever hear from Frank is how the players can't or won't play defense ... OR .... can't or won't play hard .. A BUNCH OF BULL SHYT ... Who the hell is the head coach of the team? Who the hell is in charge of defensive strategy and formations and techniques? LAWRENCE FRANK IS .. THAT IS WHO!!!!!!! HE NEVER takes blame .. HE always the blames the players as if it is his job simply to notice what is wrong and it is the players job to simply take the blame .. If something goes wrong .. it is the players' fault .. TO HELL WITH THAT SHYT .. If players are not playing hard .. then it is on L. FRANK .. IF they cannot defend .. IT IS HIS EFFIN FAULT .. He is a slimely politician once again .. He will take the credit if they win and blame the players if they lose .. That is NOT leadership .. That is being incompetent and cowardly ... FIRE HIS EFFIN STINKY ASS .. NOW!!!! A real leader.. a real coach .. does not blame his players in public ...... to quote Jim Carey, .......L. Frank is a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard. A belligerent bald fart. A worthless, steaming pile of cow dung.

Is that how I really feel? I think so .. Cool
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Re: FORUM

Post  lemonpen on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:18 am

Grizz2 wrote:So the latest Detroit News article is titled .. how Frank is IRKED BY his player's lack of defense and effort ... His continual whining about how his players dont play hard IRKS THE HELL OUT OF ME Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil ... All Frank is doing is shifting the blame for losses onto his players off his own failings as a head coach .. Would love to hear what he said publicly as his Net players were in the 16 straight losses to start that season ..

I am sorry but all I ever hear from Frank is how the players can't or won't play defense ... OR .... can't or won't play hard .. A BUNCH OF BULL SHYT ... Who the hell is the head coach of the team? Who the hell is in charge of defensive strategy and formations and techniques? LAWRENCE FRANK IS .. THAT IS WHO!!!!!!! HE NEVER takes blame .. HE always the blames the players as if it is his job simply to notice what is wrong and it is the players job to simply take the blame .. If something goes wrong .. it is the players' fault .. TO HELL WITH THAT SHYT .. If players are not playing hard .. then it is on L. FRANK .. IF they cannot defend .. IT IS HIS EFFIN FAULT .. He is a slimely politician once again .. He will take the credit if they win and blame the players if they lose .. That is NOT leadership .. That is being incompetent and cowardly ... FIRE HIS EFFIN STINKY ASS .. NOW!!!! A real leader.. a real coach .. does not blame his players in public ...... to quote Jim Carey, .......L. Frank is a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard. A belligerent bald fart. A worthless, steaming pile of cow dung.

Is that how I really feel? I think so .. Cool

Whatdaya really think. lol

Frankly, I understand where Frank is coming from. There has been little to no control of the opposing PGs. IMO we don't make them work hard enough to move about the court or to get the ball.

Frank might want to try a strategy from LB which could produce better outcomes. When Ben was our last line of D we made a point of funneling driving players his direction. Our guard was instructed to stay close enough to offensive player to slow him up and prevent him from achieving full lift on his jump, without picking up a foul. Ben would do the rest. Even if it worked we need to hit the boards with 5 guys.

We could also make a concerted effort to iso Stucky on diminuitive PGs hoping to generate a few fouls. Kind of what Mr. Big Shot used to do.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:04 pm

[quote="lemonpen"]
Grizz2 wrote:So the latest Detroit News article is titled .. how Frank is IRKED BY his player's lack of defense and effort ... His continual whining about how his players dont play hard IRKS THE HELL OUT OF ME Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil ... All Frank is doing is shifting the blame for losses onto his players off his own failings as a head coach .. Would love to hear what he said publicly as his Net players were in the 16 straight losses to start that season ..

I am sorry but all I ever hear from Frank is how the players can't or won't play defense ... OR .... can't or won't play hard .. A BUNCH OF BULL SHYT ... Who the hell is the head coach of the team? Who the hell is in charge of defensive strategy and formations and techniques? LAWRENCE FRANK IS .. THAT IS WHO!!!!!!! HE NEVER takes blame .. HE always the blames the players as if it is his job simply to notice what is wrong and it is the players job to simply take the blame .. If something goes wrong .. it is the players' fault .. TO HELL WITH THAT SHYT .. If players are not playing hard .. then it is on L. FRANK .. IF they cannot defend .. IT IS HIS EFFIN FAULT .. He is a slimely politician once again .. He will take the credit if they win and blame the players if they lose .. That is NOT leadership .. That is being incompetent and cowardly ... FIRE HIS EFFIN STINKY ASS .. NOW!!!! A real leader.. a real coach .. does not blame his players in public ...... to quote Jim Carey, .......L. Frank is a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard. A belligerent bald fart. A worthless, steaming pile of cow dung.

Is that how I really feel? I think so .. Cool

Lemonpen certain players have been kissing Frank's ass knowing that Frank has brown nosing stills as well. They play up to Frank's motivational signs. Recall how Bynum told the News that he understands what Frank wants so it will be much easier for him this season? How about Maxiell? He has the coach rapped around his stinky finger. Frank noticed the amount of second chance opportunities the Kings had but didn't notice that the 1-4 Laker team made the Piston big men and especially Maxiell look like Jr. High players. Maxiell has never been able to secure many defensive rebound when the opposing team is actually trying hard. The season is early when the players try to make their mark and play really hard much like the last month of the regular season. Detroit is the worst team in the NBA according to their record. Coach Frank has not replaced any players in his rotation and has kept his starting unit in place for every sorry game. Many of us do not believe it would be waving the white flag if management decided to lose with the young players. Frank prefers to lose with the old players.
Detroit guards have been able to penetrate past opposing guards. However, other teams have big men who are active and can punish guards who enter their turf. Our Bigs cannot anticipate or are not interested in reacting quickly enough to help. And guys like Maxiell have never mastered the art of having a nose for the basketball which you need to be a good defensive rebounder. This is just another example of Frank wanting the world to be the way he wants it to be rather than how it really is during games. He wants Maxiell and others to be something they have never been. When will the owner figure that out?


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Sorry but I do not like the idea of playing Charlie V and Daye

Post  cool breeze on Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:43 pm

The only thing I like about Frank is the fact that he has not played those two players. If he does, the team is really lost. As much as I do not believe Maxiell is a real NBA player, he at least trys to play really hard. That is what his teammates appreciate about Maxiell. The young players as well as Prince do not want to play with Charlie V or Daye. Daye has already proven that he cannot guard any guards or small forwards. And in this pre season, Frank gave Daye many opportunities to prove that he could become effective as a power forward. Did any of you actually watch Daye in action this pre season? Daye had the body language during those games of a player who knows he is out of his league. Charlie V, also, proved to his teammates that he is no different than he was in previous seasons. He can't run the floor. He cannot defend. He does not rebound. And he has lost his touch in outside shooting. Charlie looked horrible this pre season. Come on Piston fans! There is no way that any GM in the NBA who would want those two players on their team. No amount of playing time will change that fact. I would send Daye down to the minor leagues and let him build up his confidence as he trys to gain more strength and weight. I would cut Charlie V and eat his contract. Try to trade Maxiell, Bynum, and Stuckey if that is possible. Then I would try to get another young big man with high potential defensive skills and a point guard. Let this team lose with the young players and become stronger through the draft next June. Think 2 or 3 years from now. It would be a lot of fun watching them improve.

The coach has options to improve this team. Frank could include "The Russian" in the rotation. That guy has a nose for the basketball. By January, he will be up to speed with what is going on and we would see a huge improvement in this team. Play Drummond at least 20 minutes a game and when the Pistons play Monroe, Drummond and "The Russian", play more zone defense. When you play zone it is more difficult to seal out and prevent 2nd chance shots. But the Pistons are giving up too many of those shots now. Just make sure all 5 players are thinking about rebounding. Teams will be forced to fire the outside shots up. Reduce Prince's minutes to 15 per game and give the rest to Singler. Eliminate Bynum from the rotation and only play him with the right match ups. Give additional time to English and somehow get Middleton in the rotation. Please don't mention Charlie V and Daye. I will have to stop watching the games.

The problem with this coaching staff and Frank is that they have not adjusted to the players currently on this roster. Frank believes he is coaching old guys who are still in their prime and thinking that he has Jason Kidd on his team and Charles Barkley in Maxiell. The Pistons need a coach who believes he can somehow make young athletic players effective while hiding their defects by using better strategy. Frank is not a good coach for sure. He is afraid of the older players and is a kiss ass political type. However, something sticks with me right now. Why is it that we have had 3 coaching staffs who have not been able to get the same vet players to perform well consistantly? This coach does not have a Ben Wallace or Dennis Rodman type who the guards can rely on when they get beat. Our Bigs seem to be running away from the action in the paint while on defense. Who can coach that type of player? The guy we have to point fingers at is Joe Dumars.

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STOP THE CV MADNESS

Post  WTF on Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:17 pm

Cool I swear between you and Murph and this Charlie hatred. So what he looked bad in preseason, tons of player look bad in preseason and have excellent seasons after. You don't like the way he runs, but he's clearly 16 points off the bench, you don't like the way he jumps, but 4 rebs to go with the 16 pt is better than what JMax brings consistently, you don't like his tweets and summer workout program, but what that got to do with anything.

I challenge either of you to come up with one time Charlie was the single reason we lost a game, for every one you come with I'll match it with three time won a game for use.
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It's Just That Easy...

Post  Murph on Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:48 pm

I see the Lakers just dumped Mike Brown (along with his hapless side-kick John Kuester, no doubt Kuester ).

See Mr. Gores...that wasn't hard. All you have to do is admit your mistake, fire your lame-assed coach...and move on.

It's rumored that the Lakers will move on with Mike D'Antoni, undoubtedly a favorite of Steve Nash.

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Quote of the Week...

Post  Murph on Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:57 pm

Grizz2 wrote: .......L. Frank is a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard. A belligerent bald fart. A worthless, steaming pile of cow dung.

LOL....good one Grizz! 2 thumbs up


By the way, I see the Free Press is now running an article with the headline, "Pistons' Lawrence Frank won't rule out playing Greg Monroe, Andre Drummond together."

That article came out about 20 minutes after the article about Mike Brown getting shit-canned. Too funny. lol!

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EXPERIMENTING IN LIL' LARRY'S LAB

Post  deusXango on Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:05 pm

Since the mad genius is busy "assessing and seeing," why not let us all see what Middleton looks like at SG; why not start either him or English at SG, and give them a game, splitting time, without Stuckey in the mix and see what that looks like? One game. Consult your astrologers for the best possible time for them to look like utter failures, and play them that night. That's as likely to happen as Drummond being paired with Monroe.

Start Singler and play for extensive minutes at the SF spot; When he needs to be subbed for, play Maggette (if he's feeling up to it). Giving Prince a game or so off, to get his head together, is not a bad idea. Are we afraid of what slander Prince will spread around the league on you Lil' Larry?

I don't know about anyone else, but after that triple double, I'm ready to see Monroe at the PF spot, and stop reading on forums about how he'll be dominated by the PF's in the NBA. I'm all for seeing what we got, for real. Lil' Larry can start anyone he wants to at center, just let us see what Monroe and Singler look like as our starting forwards. The defense may, or may not suck, but the effort and intelligence (not to mention the reaction time) will get much better.

Why can't Knight backup Stuckey at PG? Stuckey says he needs the ball in his hands to be effective, and he's not as turnover prone as Knight; maybe he's learned a little something about the position.

Instead of Lil' Larry popping off to the media about what's not right with his team, tell his team how things are going to be, until things change:

PG-Stuckey/Knight

SG-Middleton/English/Maggette

SF-Singler/J.J./Maggette

PF-Monroe/Maxiell

C-Drummond/Kravstov

Prince and Bynum deserves a "time out." Middleton, Maggette, and Kravstov need to get some playing time, and we all want to see that starting lineup, get shaken up. So, come on and "assess and see" what you haven't taken the time to look at.
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Lakers Fire Mike Brown

Post  Sebastian on Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:06 pm

Now, if Joe could do the same to L. Frank.

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MURPH

Post  deusXango on Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:18 pm

Damned if you don't stay up on all the pertinent NBA news Murph. Hopefully that Brown firing will build enough of a fire under Lil' Larry that he'll start coaching, and stop bullsh!tting! Thanks Murph.
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Re: FORUM

Post  lemonpen on Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:22 pm

Sebastian wrote:Now, if Joe could do the same to L. Frank.

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Sebastian, you're slowing down. I expected to see your take on the firing 10 minutes ago. lol

I guess Larry better unleash the Beast.
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Murph beat me to the post ...

Post  Sebastian on Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:14 pm

lemonpen wrote:
Sebastian wrote:Now, if Joe could do the same to L. Frank.

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Sebastian, you're slowing down. I expected to see your take on the firing 10 minutes ago. lol

I guess Larry better unleash the Beast.

Yeah, Lemon, trying to balance NBA News with the responsibilities at work.

Speaking of work, I expect US to get worked over tonight and Monday, against the Thunder. WE have no answers for: Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka, or Martin.

I just wonder, if WE go 0-10, if Joe and Gores will do the right thing and tell L. Frank to clean out his locker.

Sidenote: I wouldn't have thought that Mike Brown would be the first coach to be fired, this season. I was thinking that Randy Whittman would have been the first. But, I would like it very much, if L. Frank is the second coach to be yanked, this season.
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Dumars

Post  Sparma2 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:01 pm

Thanks for your feedback to my analysis of Dumars, guys.

Good points, Oracle, but by that standard we can already pencil in the Yankees execs as GMs of the decades for the coming century. Quantifying WAG's a problem, but surely there's some useful sorting out to be done beyond sheer success.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:33 pm

WISEFAN wrote:Cool I swear between you and Murph and this Charlie hatred. So what he looked bad in preseason, tons of player look bad in preseason and have excellent seasons after. You don't like the way he runs, but he's clearly 16 points off the bench, you don't like the way he jumps, but 4 rebs to go with the 16 pt is better than what JMax brings consistently, you don't like his tweets and summer workout program, but what that got to do with anything.

I challenge either of you to come up with one time Charlie was the single reason we lost a game, for every one you come with I'll match it with three time won a game for use.

Wow I didn't expect that Wisefan. Sorry if my memory is long. I have never respected the way Charlie V plays basketball and am not sorry for how I feel. Charlie was injured last season so we can give him that. But before last season you might look at the stats and come up with some reason much like a former poster who used to figure out how well a sub would play if he had extended minutes based on the minute he got when the game had already been decided. I stand my this. Charlie V has hurt this Piston team in many ways and especially his effort on defense and running the court. I get PASS so I can listen to the announcers from the other teams. Every announcer used to say that their game plan centered around pushing the baskeball when Charlie entered the game. He runs like he has a turd in his pants. He looks unhealthy. He likes to fight more than play basketball the right way. Charlie is clearly not part the the Pistons future. So why would the coach want to play Charlie? If Charlie would so some effort on defense and post up down low instead of standing beyond the 3 point line, then I might change my evaluation. Why was it that Charlie was playing beyond the 3 point line on offense but was always the last Piston player to get back on defense? Charlie hasn't been a serious player since he signed that contract. I would much rather see the Russian get the playing time or Drummond.

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Cool Breeze

Post  WTF on Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:05 pm

cool breeze wrote:
WISEFAN wrote:Cool I swear between you and Murph and this Charlie hatred. So what he looked bad in preseason, tons of player look bad in preseason and have excellent seasons after. You don't like the way he runs, but he's clearly 16 points off the bench, you don't like the way he jumps, but 4 rebs to go with the 16 pt is better than what JMax brings consistently, you don't like his tweets and summer workout program, but what that got to do with anything.

I challenge either of you to come up with one time Charlie was the single reason we lost a game, for every one you come with I'll match it with three time won a game for use.

Wow I didn't expect that Wisefan. Sorry if my memory is long. I have never respected the way Charlie V plays basketball and am not sorry for how I feel. Charlie was injured last season so we can give him that. But before last season you might look at the stats and come up with some reason much like a former poster who used to figure out how well a sub would play if he had extended minutes based on the minute he got when the game had already been decided. I stand my this. Charlie V has hurt this Piston team in many ways and especially his effort on defense and running the court. I get PASS so I can listen to the announcers from the other teams. Every announcer used to say that their game plan centered around pushing the baskeball when Charlie entered the game. He runs like he has a turd in his pants. He looks unhealthy. He likes to fight more than play basketball the right way. Charlie is clearly not part the the Pistons future. So why would the coach want to play Charlie? If Charlie would so some effort on defense and post up down low instead of standing beyond the 3 point line, then I might change my evaluation. Why was it that Charlie was playing beyond the 3 point line on offense but was always the last Piston player to get back on defense? Charlie hasn't been a serious player since he signed that contract. I would much rather see the Russian get the playing time or Drummond.

Okay I'm off on the stats more like 12pt and 4.7 boards a game for CV. Jason career stats 6 pts 4.2 rebounds and Jason was a fat turd for 6 of the 8 season he played. I have long memory as well and CV 1st season he carried the team while Tay and Stuckey nursed injuries and Kuesters screwed around with what SG got the most minutes, The only steady thing the team had going for them was CV.

TW you know I hate those per min stats and plus/minus bull shit. Your over-stating the CV issue
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Dumars

Post  Oracle on Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:30 pm

Sparma2 wrote:Thanks for your feedback to my analysis of Dumars, guys.

Good points, Oracle, but by that standard we can already pencil in the Yankees execs as GMs of the decades for the coming century. Quantifying WAG's a problem, but surely there's some useful sorting out to be done beyond sheer success.

Of course, and I said as much in my post.

Where I thought you went wrong is that success where available to examine, makes ALL, and I mean ALL other forms of performance analysis moot! They become simple affirmations of how that successful person did what they did!

Since I said that, you, and I think Murph assumed that I dismiss using WAG's, I didn't. If you read my post, I clearly distinguished measuring a person that HAS accomplishments from those where you have no other valid way to measure their performance.

In those cases, you need something else to determine if they're worth keeping around. Frank is a case in point!
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Good Find Murph

Post  Oracle on Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:59 pm

Murph wrote:I see the Lakers just dumped Mike Brown (along with his hapless side-kick John Kuester, no doubt Kuester ).

See Mr. Gores...that wasn't hard. All you have to do is admit your mistake, fire your lame-assed coach...and move on.

It's rumored that the Lakers will move on with Mike D'Antoni, undoubtedly a favorite of Steve Nash.

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Mike Brown was a one night stand that turned UGLY in the light of day!

The Lakers thought they wanted a team that played east coast style ball and defense. Once they got a good sniff of it, they want west coast offense again!

Mike Brown is a 100% east coast coach, not suited to the run and gun, play just enough defense, west.

Even so, I'm shocked that they fired him a day or so after fully endorsing him.

I guess stuff happens!
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Stuckey

Post  Oracle on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:39 pm

Just over powers Martin, and gets to the line!
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Drummond Down!!!

Post  Oracle on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:42 pm

Wow, that looked NASTY, but he appears to be alright!
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Re: FORUM

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