Disagree Just Saying

[WTF]

Cousins is a confirmed coach killer, who's widely recognized immaturaty is far beneath his years, is a rotten influence, and a suspect teammate.

Why is everyone in lockstep to bring him here, where the HC is only mildly respected. Here, where the not too distant past provides a sharp reminder of how little support the sitting President of Basketball Operations gives a HC in turmoil. Here, where the core has under 3yrs experience and is being counted on to develop then carry the mail.

Sheed was nowhere like Cousins but his on court influence finally permeated Rips seemingly goodguy demenor. You never know who will bite the apple.

Taking on DeMarcus carries far greater risk than drafting Drummond with his supposed issues. The downside could mean 3 more years of lottery picks.

First Don't put Rip's behavior and down-turn on Sheed. Whatever Rip became was a result of Joe deeds in bringing in Ben Gordon, forcing Curry to sit him in place of AI and mainly about lying to Rip about the events of the trade with CB.

Second Cousin can't poison the mind of any young player we have and if so that speaks poorly of the players we have if Cousins can influence their behavior. We all played with the bad kids as a child but was smart enough not to get in trouble. I can't buy into that theory one bit unless we have a team full of dummies.

Third LF will kill his own career before Cousin can cause that. He has one more year after this and in all probabilty will likely be fired if the team doesn't make the playoffs as Gores hopes.

Fourth Why would we want him, he's cheap premium talent regardless of his attitude and I wouldn't be so quick to say that Sac-town isn't partly to blame. I don't understand the concept of pointing out every flaw of other players and we provide every excuse in the world for our own. Bottom Line I rather have Cousins and his issues than having Maxiell starting. Just saying if this was one of our players acting like Cousins you all be blaming LF for it.

[WTF]

Sour Pee Boy no peeing your sheets or Santa won't bring you anything

[WTF]

"He's a great player. He can pick and pop," Stuckey said. "It's common sense. It's not just pick and pop; he can take guys off the dribble and into the post."

Initially I understood why Joe signed Charlie and thought it was a good move at the time. Sometimes fans can forget things about a player especially once they're sporting a Pistons uniform. Reminder or should I say a quick trip down Memory Lane When Charlie played for the Bucks he use to whip Big Ben and Sheed ass all over the court mainly in the post. Offensively Sheed was basically looking at a clone of himself in Charlie (a player very much capable of scoring in many ways) What Charlie wasn't was a defensive gem the way Sheed was.

Now if you're a fans that fancy defensive prowess and rebounding machine (Murph and Don) then I can see where their dislike of Charlie come from. "However" I think their dislike is colorfully over-stated, like his socks looking funny when he runs and what not. I think that neither can get pass those socks to actually see that Charlie plays ok defense, not the best defense but ok defense.

Charlie can have more games like he did the other night offensively, if he stay's healthy and keep playing smart like he has.

Wisefan we saw a different Charlie V on the 2nd of a back to back against Washington. He was fun to watch. However, that is the very first time that Charlie has played that hard in a Piston uniform. And he did it against a very weak team. How can we forget the way Charlie ran the court like an old lady last season and the season before that one? Stuckey is playing well right now as well. But again Stuckey always plays well against the weakest teams in the league. I am waiting for Stuckey to actually lead the team like a leader should when the Pistons play against good competition. Instead, he usuallly shrinks into the shell of the players he could be. I am still not sold on either Stuckey or Charlie V and would include both in any potential trade to bring in a consistant player with this young group of future stars.

Some of you Piston fans still keep placing English in some futuristic starting lineup. When Knight arrived in Detroit, he became part of the rotation right away because he earned it. Singler did the same. There must be something others know that you don't know about English. Maybe the fact that he is not ready to be an everyday player. Still, Ie support giving him some playing time each game like I do for The RUssian Assassin and Middleton. This team has nothing to lose. Detroit cannot make the playoffs so the young guys should play to see how good they might become. With Prince injured, fans could make a good case for Middleton being in the rotation. The young players who are playing are playing too many minutes at times. When Prince was healthy, he was playing too many minutes. Coach Frank is not a very good manager for sure.

Merry Christmas to all of you!

You see this is exactly what I talk about when I say you overstate Don. Really Charlie played all of 13 games last season at the end mind you. Hardly in any kind of game shape to running like anything else. Also Charlie first year was quite productive and mind you again he played the entire season his first one injured.

[Grizz2]

The following wishes go out to Piston Nation.

To the “Oh How I Hate Lawrence Frank” Fan Club:
As the saying goes “coaches are hired to be fired”. So when that day finally arrives my wish for you is that LF is no less than the Rick Carlisle of this era, meaning he will hand over a nearly Ship Shape squad to the guy that delivers us the Glory Days.

To the “Grass is Always Greener on Everyone Else’s Roster” Fan Club:
My wish for you is that Joe pulls off a multitude of trades bringing you fresh fodder for 2014 trade deadline dreams.

To the “Joe Must Go” Fan Club:
My wish for you is Wisdom & Patience to accept that which you cannot change.


To the “Cheerleader” Fan Club:
My wish for you is W’s galore. You should be able to cheer for the real thing just once more.


To the “I'll Live With Losing as Long as We Play the Kids” Fan Club:
My wish for you (well, us) is Smelling Salts to wake you (well, us) from the delusion. No one likes losing and you (well, us) will soon return to complaining about one thing or another.






Merry Christmas To All and To All A Good Night

[Grizz2]

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

Oracle .. thanks for the Link .. Good one for Goodwill .. I have to laugh though .. at the part where the vets like C. Magette and Prince and Jmax too .. for talking up how the young players dont want it bad enough ... I see Singler, Knight and Monroe busting their butts every game ... The truth is those VETS are KNOWN for being passive and NOT taking charge ... What we need is a better system that doesnt waste the effort of the team .. especially on offense ..

[Oracle]

[Only admins are allowed to see this image]

[merc]

The following wishes go out to Piston Nation.

To the “Oh How I Hate Lawrence Frank” Fan Club:
As the saying goes “coaches are hired to be fired”. So when that day finally arrives my wish for you is that LF is no less than the Rick Carlisle of this era, meaning he will hand over a nearly Ship Shape squad to the guy that delivers us the Glory Days.

To the “Grass is Always Greener on Everyone Else’s Roster” Fan Club:
My wish for you is that Joe pulls off a multitude of trades bringing you fresh fodder for 2014 trade deadline dreams.

To the “Joe Must Go” Fan Club:
My wish for you is Wisdom & Patience to accept that which you cannot change.

A universal message... well done Mr Lemon

To the “Cheerleader” Fan Club:
My wish for you is W’s galore. You should be able to cheer for the real thing just once more.


To the “I'll Live With Losing as Long as We Play the Kids” Fan Club:
My wish for you (well, us) is Smelling Salts to wake you (well, us) from the delusion. No one likes losing and you (well, us) will soon return to complaining about one thing or another.






Merry Christmas To All and To All A Good Night

[Sparma]

There are better days ahead for us Piston fans. We can see the first fruits and the beginning of the harvest may already be next season.

Peace to all.

[Grizz2]

MORE bullshit calls .. I cannot believe how Wade has made a career of flopping and fouling .. I mean .. That is not a man .. at all .. And the way Ray Allen flopped on the screen set by Perkins .. was unreal ... He fits in well .. Was especially irate when Westbrooke was fouled by Wade on that last 3 point shot .. What does ABC do? First, Hubie Brown .. before saying a word about the 3 point shot ... or or seeing or showing a replay .. points out that Perkins got away with a push off to tap the ball back .. which was untrue .. Then they show only 1 angle where you cannot tell if there was a foul .. Westbrooke gets T-ed up .. The announcers dont know and dont care if there is the slightest chance Westbrooke was robbed ... Not a single word about that possibility or a better camera angle .. 1 replay .. the original .. which does not show anything .. All Ridiculously bad .. So . how do we know there was indeed a foul? Because ABC didnt have the integrity to show the GD play .. They wanted NO part of it .. They know what the word is on high .. This game is supposed to show how clean the 2012 NBA Finals were called, dont you all remember? .. RIGHT! IN A PIG'S EFFIN EYE ....

I wont go into all the other plays corruptly called.. More than a few .. ..

There was no true NBA champion in 2012 ....

David Stern .. Merry Christmas and then go straight back to hell ... and stay there ..

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[Oracle]

Grizz, I agree with your complaints, but I also got something about the Pistons in that game!

Sparma says that better days are ahead for us, and that's really the way we need to think... Why?

Well, looking at that game, it was crystal clear that no possible trades would put us in position to compete at the level of ANY of the teams I've seen play today(Heat, OKC, NYK, Lakers).

Not only is the talent level a lot greater, they're better TEAMS with a lot more experience.

However, that's a good thing! We should be solely focused on adding youngish pieces and watching them mature, and then maybe adding a big piece or two would make that difference.

That's why I disagree with Wise on Josh Smith. I don't see how adding him makes us good enough to do anything other than barely make the playoffs. It's a short term fix IMO!

We have a long way to go, but there's a lot of fun watching a team grow into a competitor. I loved it when Joe took over and Stack and crew started making the playoffs... that was exciting, even though we all knew we wern't championship material!

[Grizz2]

Grizz, I agree with your complaints, but I also got something about the Pistons in that game!

Sparma says that better days are ahead for us, and that's really the way we need to think... Why?

Well, looking at that game, it was crystal clear that no possible trades would put us in position to compete at the level of ANY of the teams I've seen play today(Heat, OKC, NYK, Lakers).

Not only is the talent level a lot greater, they're better TEAMS with a lot more experience.

However, that's a good thing! We should be solely focused on adding youngish pieces and watching them mature, and then maybe adding a big piece or two would make that difference.

That's why I disagree with Wise on Josh Smith. I don't see how adding him makes us good enough to do anything other than barely make the playoffs. It's a short term fix IMO!

We have a long way to go, but there's a lot of fun watching a team grow into a competitor. I loved it when Joe took over and Stack and crew started making the playoffs... that was exciting, even though we all knew we wern't championship material!

Thanks Oracle .. It helps so much to hear from other good NBA fans who can see the same BS going on once more with the misbehaving and getting away with murder Miami Heat ..

Yeah .. the speed and precision is really there for both those teams ... It was only 8 years ago when the Pistons shocked the world .. Looks we can add one more really good rookie from the upcoming draft .. If Joe can get good or lucky one more time .. Maybe we can get an alpha star this time around .. Lawrence Frank, we can feel good about him doing everything he can to make sure we get the 3rd to 5th pick in the draft .. I wonder what Gores take is on all that is happening with the team .. Does he really need the team to make the play-offs this year or he will fire Frank and / or Joe? Will Frank finally go all out with the young players once he realizes there is no way we are going to win with the veterans anyway? Should be a very interesting season .. Like you say . Lets enjoy the rebuilding ..

Well .. Josh Smith and James Harden ... both are good players to have added ... but .. we really have no chance at this point ... until the Pistons become a much stronger team .. Then we might attract some interest from FAs ..And outside of our core young players, no team is going to trade for our less than imposing veterans .. But certainly they are fighting as best they can .. Will be interesting to see what happens in who is playing after 12 more games ... I still want a way better head coach but understand it may be better to wait till next summer ..

[deusXango]

It was only 8 years ago when the Pistons shocked the world .. Looks we can add one more really good rookie from the upcoming draft .. If Joe can get good or lucky one more time .. Maybe we can get an alpha star this time around .. Lawrence Frank, we can feel good about him doing everything he can to make sure we get the 3rd to 5th pick in the draft .. I wonder what Gores take is on all that is happening with the team .. Does he really need the team to make the play-offs this year or he will fire Frank and / or Joe? Will Frank finally go all out with the young players once he realizes there is no way we are going to win with the veterans anyway? Should be a very interesting season .. Like you say . Lets enjoy the rebuilding ..

Well .. Josh Smith and James Harden ... both are good players to have added ... but .. we really have no chance at this point ...

Grizz, I love the meat of your post; since we're lottery bound again, let's pray for that special offensive player, this time around, because we've got the team waiting for him. Andre Drummond is an alpha star, he's just being kept under wraps. Greg Monroe is a highly skilled complimentary player we can count on for years to come (it sickens me when people bash him for not being something he's not...a super star). Brandon Knight is a young evolving guard with smarts, skills, work ethic, and an attitude of humility (haven't we had enough of the lazy "divas?"). Kyle Singler is the 2nd round "glue guy" (who appears to be a steal at this point), and then there's the "old man" Rodney Stuckey, who could very well be the future 6th man of the year (or in contention every year), and the leader of the team...the most experienced voice in the locker room.

I think Lil' Larry will go before Dumars, if for no other reason, Joe drafted the future core (which ain't bad) but, Lil' Larry Frank refused to field a winning rotation and make sound coaching decisions. Grizz, please do not get in lockstep with anyone who try to sell you on the notion that trading for a 26 year old superior talent is a bad idea, and their only reasoning is he's a short term solution. At 26 years old??!!! That's a building block!! It makes more sense to trade for the level of talent that makes a contender, than to try and sign them as FA's (residents of the city and fans of the Pistons are quick to say "no one wants to come to Detroit...it's too cold.") History has shown that once a player comes here, they fall in love with the environs, and the people. They also come to realize that multi-millionaires can live any place they want.

James Harden is the ship that's sailed but look at what he's doing with a T.O. machine in Houston; don't you think he'd have made a difference in Knight's game? Wouldn't Harden, Knight, and Stuckey be a formitable 3 guard rotation?
Josh Smith would complete the frontline to be feared in the east (that no one wants to see...Pistons fans?), of Drummond, Monroe, and Smith; this is something that'll never happen for a number of reasons, so we've got to look to Singler or, dare I say, Jerebko/Middleton to develop into the SF of the future. If 1 of the 3 don't break out of the pack, that alpha star in the draft may not be enough.

[deusXango]

Oracle, that was a priceless piece!!

[Grizz2]

It was only 8 years ago when the Pistons shocked the world .. Looks we can add one more really good rookie from the upcoming draft .. If Joe can get good or lucky one more time .. Maybe we can get an alpha star this time around .. Lawrence Frank, we can feel good about him doing everything he can to make sure we get the 3rd to 5th pick in the draft .. I wonder what Gores take is on all that is happening with the team .. Does he really need the team to make the play-offs this year or he will fire Frank and / or Joe? Will Frank finally go all out with the young players once he realizes there is no way we are going to win with the veterans anyway? Should be a very interesting season .. Like you say . Lets enjoy the rebuilding ..

Well .. Josh Smith and James Harden ... both are good players to have added ... but .. we really have no chance at this point ...

Grizz, I love the meat of your post; since we're lottery bound again, let's pray for that special offensive player, this time around, because we've got the team waiting for him. Andre Drummond is an alpha star, he's just being kept under wraps. Greg Monroe is a highly skilled complimentary player we can count on for years to come (it sickens me when people bash him for not being something he's not...a super star). Brandon Knight is a young evolving guard with smarts, skills, work ethic, and an attitude of humility (haven't we had enough of the lazy "divas?"). Kyle Singler is the 2nd round "glue guy" (who appears to be a steal at this point), and then there's the "old man" Rodney Stuckey, who could very well be the future 6th man of the year (or in contention every year), and the leader of the team...the most experienced voice in the locker room.

I think Lil' Larry will go before Dumars, if for no other reason, Joe drafted the future core (which ain't bad) but, Lil' Larry Frank refused to field a winning rotation and make sound coaching decisions. Grizz, please do not get in lockstep with anyone who try to sell you on the notion that trading for a 26 year old superior talent is a bad idea, and their only reasoning is he's a short term solution. At 26 years old??!!! That's a building block!! It makes more sense to trade for the level of talent that makes a contender, than to try and sign them as FA's (residents of the city and fans of the Pistons are quick to say "no one wants to come to Detroit...it's too cold.") History has shown that once a player comes here, they fall in love with the environs, and the people. They also come to realize that multi-millionaires can live any place they want.

James Harden is the ship that's sailed but look at what he's doing with a T.O. machine in Houston; don't you think he'd have made a difference in Knight's game? Wouldn't Harden, Knight, and Stuckey be a formitable 3 guard rotation?
Josh Smith would complete the frontline to be feared in the east (that no one wants to see...Pistons fans?), of Drummond, Monroe, and Smith; this is something that'll never happen for a number of reasons, so we've got to look to Singler or, dare I say, Jerebko/Middleton to develop into the SF of the future. If 1 of the 3 don't break out of the pack, that alpha star in the draft may not be enough.

DX.. total agreement .. that having Josh Smith and / or James Harden .. today, 2 months ago .. or in the near future .. all very good things ... My only point is .. No Player FA would want to come here YET .. as the way things stand .. and .... No GM would trade that kind of player for our spare parts ... but sure I would want both players here ASAP .. I think Frank is more in the way of development than for it .. for reasons stated dozens of times before by many here ..

[lemonpen]

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

Question for the Forum. When a child doesn't study hard enough for a test do we accuse them of displaying a lack of energy.

In the world of basketball why is energy used when maybe effort is intended. Am I wrong in thinking there is a difference. When Dre pulls down rebound from outside of his area is that energy or effort. When he pulls down 9 of them is that energy or production. It seems to be called energy when performed by a bench guy and production from a starter. Is that so starters aren't insulted by the negative conotation that "lack of effort" brings.

In Goodwill's article is ONERY / GRITTY synonymous TOUGH. I wonder if players refer to "toughness" during lockerroom discussions.

Seems to me that if we really want to change our performance we better be ready to face issues directly and in unambiguous terms.

[Oracle]

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

Question for the Forum. When a child doesn't study hard enough for a test do we accuse them of displaying a lack of energy.

In the world of basketball why is energy used when maybe effort is intended. Am I wrong in thinking there is a difference. When Dre pulls down rebound from outside of his area is that energy or effort. When he pulls down 9 of them is that energy or production. It seems to be called energy when performed by a bench guy and production from a starter. Is that so starters aren't insulted by the negative conotation that "lack of effort" brings.

In Goodwill's article is ONERY / GRITTY synonymous TOUGH. I wonder if players refer to "toughness" during lockerroom discussions.

Seems to me that if we really want to change our performance we better be ready to face issues directly and in unambiguous terms.

This is the "politically correct to give emotional support to players" league!

Have you ever known teams to tell you the truth about any player?

Listen to Franks interviews, you'd swear that he doesn't know any of his players! The stuff that comes out of his mouth glowing about crap that we all know can't be true.

But he isn't alone, this goes on in almost every presser coaches give. They're trying to emotionally support players in the hope that they can get more production out of them!

One can only hope that after the pressers, the coaches go back and tell them that "Hey, you know what I said was total BS, so get your ass in gear".

But I doubt it!

[Oracle]

I totally admit to being wrong about Harden!

Not only is he performing exceptionally well, the surprising and even shocking thing is how he's made others around him so much better!

If you include Harden & Josh Smith to play along with Monroe & Drummond(PG is almost a who cares with Harden running the offense), and that team is indeed making the 2nd round or slightly better in the east, although not ECF material, IMO due to experience.

I still think that contract wise, doing that hampers our ability to keep a team together, and that's my major concern. Timing is EVERYTHING, and if you shoot your wad too early, you could screw the whole thing up.

It's hard, but we have to let a few more things play out, while adding affordable young pieces.

However, we all know that what we need is that "Alpha Dog"!

It's the missing piece, a DWade, LeBron, Kobe, Durant, hell, even a Westbrook, somebody to take charge and put them on his back!

Unfortunately, that's the kind of player Joe never seems to get, unless they're on the downside of their career... can you spell AI?

[Oracle]

Who will get the start with Prince out?

Will we see English at SG and Singler at SF, or will Frank just start Daye at SF, and call it a day(no pun intended).

[Sebastian]

MORE bullshit calls .. I cannot believe how Wade has made a career of flopping and fouling .. I mean .. That is not a man .. at all .. And the way Ray Allen flopped on the screen set by Perkins .. was unreal ... He fits in well .. Was especially irate when Westbrooke was fouled by Wade on that last 3 point shot .. What does ABC do? First, Hubie Brown .. before saying a word about the 3 point shot ... or or seeing or showing a replay .. points out that Perkins got away with a push off to tap the ball back .. which was untrue .. Then they show only 1 angle where you cannot tell if there was a foul .. Westbrooke gets T-ed up .. The announcers dont know and dont care if there is the slightest chance Westbrooke was robbed ... Not a single word about that possibility or a better camera angle .. 1 replay .. the original .. which does not show anything .. All Ridiculously bad .. So . how do we know there was indeed a foul? Because ABC didnt have the integrity to show the GD play .. They wanted NO part of it .. They know what the word is on high .. This game is supposed to show how clean the 2012 NBA Finals were called, dont you all remember? .. RIGHT! IN A PIG'S EFFIN EYE ....

I wont go into all the other plays corruptly called.. More than a few .. ..

There was no true NBA champion in 2012 ....

David Stern .. Merry Christmas and then go straight back to hell ... and stay there ..

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

Also, Grizz, Chris Bosh traveled after gathering the rebound of Westbrook's missed three and the refs, nor the announcers said anything about Bosh walking. It appeared that Kevin Martin was aware of the traveling non-call, but no one else.

And, Lebron never gets called for fouls!

[merc]

Joe & Larry haven't talked about going with the youth movement.
[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[Oracle]

Joe & Larry haven't talked about going with the youth movement.
[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

Merc, I fully endorse that point of view!

I also fully endorse our view that we should go young, they aren't in comfict, IMO.

The Pistons as an organization has to think differently than fans, however, while we know that, we do expect a movement in the direction of youth to set in around the all star break.

Joe & Gores have to look at all of their investments and how to best use them to the profit and health of the organization as a whole.

Us dumb arse fans only have to worry about firing the next ex-coach, or playing the next superstar scrub that hasn't had any PT in years,

[Oracle]

IMO, Stuckey is an entirely different guard with a big man to throw it to!

He really works well with Drummond!

He bullied a guard from the wing to close to the basket! I was expecting the usual Stuckey move to be attack the basket, but noooooo!

This time he dished a sweet dime to Drummond for the dunk!

I LOVE it(but not the score right now)!

[Oracle]

Josh Smiths Bitch!!!

Josh is doing anything he want to with Maxiell, it's embarrassing!

[Sparma]

Just can follow online tonight. Hilarious to see Daye and CV as the easy leaders thus far in +/-.

[Grizz2]

Just can follow online tonight. Hilarious to see Daye and CV as the easy leaders thus far in +/-.

Sparma .. actually .. CV and Prince are the best NET ;/- .. Daye's +/- sucks .. but that did not stop him from making the lead 3 ball near the end of the game ..

This game proves everything we know is wrong .. I dont what to think about who plays where anymore ..

Singler sucks right now .. though he is working hard.. to the bench as back up SG / SF..

Knight sucks at PG ... So long as Frank is head coach .. no system .. no ability to teach a system even if he had one .. Knight should move to SG ...

Jmax .. no surprise .. gotten eaten alive by Josh Smith .. and anyone else on the team .. Imperative that Drummond start .. and still will want Frank fired for not starting AD#1 over Jmax ... because this is screwing the team royally ...

Would put Stuckey back at PG ..but he looks hurt bad .. sorry man ..

Still think it is Frank's offense .. to some degree .. CV and Bynum dont need no stinkin system.. just solo it .. and they single-handedly got us back into the game

Lets face it .. The Hawks relaxed AND choked .. that is how we got back into this .. Some grit by our team .. Kudos for Frank .. which I think is his best feature as a head coach ... but he is mostly stupid on so many issues ..

It sure would have been nice to see Frank substitute in the 4th and 2 OTs! Talk about locking into dumbness ... 24 minutes without a sub?

For the back up players .. I hope we pull it out in OT .. they deserve the glory and the good feeling for this win after being down 22 in the 4th!

Go Pistons ... !!! What the hell is going on .. ???!!

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