Ballin: Defense First...

[Oracle]

Ballin, not only do I agree that stressing defense first, and the holy grail, is dumb, no other than Zeke agrees with us.

Zeke has long maintained that you let youngsters do what they do best at first, getting a good grounding in the NBA, then slowly add defense to their game.

You'll get your share of players that pride themselves on defending like Afflalo & Brown, but both had solid offensive games in college that initially got stunted early on, Afflalo recovered nicely after he got out of here.

Luka Doncic is tearing the league a new on and I'm jealous because we haven't seen a youngster that exciting in Detroit in a blue moon.

As I said, I'm looking forward to the NBA instituting that Tournament(of losers) to get the first pick and top picks, where you have to WIN instead of lose to get seeding! Tanking won't work for teams anymore, they have to compete.

It's interesting to shorten the season, limit the number of playoff teams to ensure we get quality teams competing for the championship, but exciting losers with the tournament and additional post season revenue... sounds like a winner to me(which means they likely won't do it)!

The season isn't over for us, but Casey kills the hope in me, and if you load a team up with gimps, I guess it's not surprising when we see them limping off into the sunset of their careers!

One more thing about defense: I'm ready for a player that scores 40 and gives up 20... IMO, he won his position and that's defense enough for me. The freaking goal in the NBA is to outscore your opponent, and no matter how bad your defense, if you win most of those individual scoring battles, you'll likely win the game.

Look to the Bad Boys for your examples, a high scoring team that over the course of 3 years before winning 2 'ships, effectively drove down opponents scoring every year, but retained their ability to put up points... we need that!

[BallinD]

In efforts to join the party of teams with blistering youngsters slated to take the league by storm, we can be daring.

[quote="Sparma"]In agreement with your second paragraph, I agree that we could trade all five of the guys you mention (Gal, RJ, Rose, AD, and Blake) without that meaning we'd be at rock bottom for years on end.  With the right trades, the right set of youngsters coming in, we could put an interesting and competitive productive together pretty quickly, when combined with the proper development of the youngsters we have.  One can dream!  Maybe somebody can convince Gores that youth,speed and athleticism can upgrade the old paradigm. I see, too often touted, that we can somehow turn back the hands of time to become this Defense First throwback team.

It is scrappy and competes and then somehow beats the Hardens, Giannis, Kawhi, Lebron Splash Brothers, and Luca's of the NBA like the "Bad Boys" tamed Jordan and "Going To Work" tamed Shaq, Kobe and the hated Karl Malone.  Then Casey happily leads a circlejerk with BB, Thon, Gallows and Dre.

What does that look like?  BB chasing the Hardens and Luka's of the NBA around and holding them to 40, while Dre gets 15 points and 20 rebounds as we lose by 14, 120-106, (not Dre's fault, but still, we lose.)Thon is a minus 40.

An analogy that comes to mind is a scrappy Orlando for three years when Grant Hill came in but basically wasn't able to play (as part of what was to be the original acquired Big 3, along with Duncan).  Now they did still have a genuine star in McGrady.  To your point about Casey, the Orlando then had a young Doc Rivers as coach, a guy committed to integrating youngsters into the team.  I wanted Beilein, but he turned us down, reportedly.  What was that about?  We need to go young in all aspects, three tiers of young, aggressive Deeeetroit Basketball representatives in PistonLand: players, coaches and FO.
The old, conservative model, like the old players are passe.  I remember the Bad Boys, so maybe I'm just old and ready for a change.

[Sparma]

In agreement with your second paragraph, I agree that we could trade all five of the guys you mention (Gal, RJ, Rose, AD, and Blake) without that meaning we'd be at rock bottom for years on end. With the right trades, the right set of youngsters coming in, we could put an interesting and competitive productive together pretty quickly, when combined with the proper development of the youngsters we have. One can dream!

An analogy that comes to mind is a scrappy Orlando for three years when Grant Hill came in but basically wasn't able to play (as part of what was to be the original acquired Big 3, along with Duncan). Now they did still have a genuine star in McGrady. To your point about Casey, the Orlando then had a young Doc Rivers as coach, a guy committed to integrating youngsters into the team.

We will see what Dre can bring in. Losing early and often puts the kibosh on any postseason aspirations and shifts focus to the future.  The cupboard is relatively bare of young talent (except Dre)and our drafting has been poor.  

If we continue to lose and then trade off assets for Galloway, Weggie, Rose and even Dre and Blake, we could compete again as early as next year around enticing new toys 3-4 FRPs, expirings plus a young stud or two and BB, Luke, Sekou, Bone and Wood.  Casey might not wanna have to coach it so we could hopefully ditch another albatross. (Wishfull Thinking).

The “Reload” Experiment, should be officially shelved, the brainchild of an addled old brain-farting Dumars.  

I know many want to “Reload” around early season Dre, but the twin curses of “Dre-being Dre” and “Fouls” have derailed that train, I hope.  Unless we want to hold the records for Playoff Futility, Drafting Failures, and Softness Quotient, we need to retool around a new undisclosed identity... TBD.

[BallinD]

We will see what Dre can bring in. Losing early and often puts the kibosh on any postseason aspirations and shifts focus to the future. The cupboard is relatively bare of young talent (except Dre)and our drafting has been poor.

If we continue to lose and then trade off assets for Galloway, Weggie, Rose and even Dre and Blake, we could compete again as early as next year around enticing new toys 3-4 FRPs, expirings plus a young stud or two and BB, Luke, Sekou, Bone and Wood. Casey might not wanna have to coach it so we could hopefully ditch another albatross. (Wishfull Thinking).

The “Reload” Experiment, should be officially shelved, the brainchild of an addled old brain-farting Dumars.

I know many want to “Reload” around early season Dre, but the twin curses of “Dre-being Dre” and “Fouls” have derailed that train, I hope. Unless we want to hold the records for Playoff Futility, Drafting Failures, and Softness Quotient, we need to retool around a new undisclosed identity... TBD.

[Phil-Good]

I'm no NBA Gm but I can just about guarantee, If Charlotte wants Drummonds, It's going to cost way more then A Undersize Monk and only one, lottery protected draft pick.

If Charlott wants Drummonds it will cost A unprotected lottery pick or two, and one of the 3 top young prospects. The kid from Michigan state, PJ Washington or that 2nd year PG who balling out of control right now.

[Sparma]

As a native Detroiter, I don't think I've ever been in this spot: I hope all three of the Detroit teams I root for (Tigers, Pistons, Lions) lose, and lose big. I'm a fair weather Wings fan, but they seem to have done a good job of losing too.

[Oracle]

Casey's lineups are so madning that I want to tear my hair out!!!

If winning isn't likely, why play so many guys that have no upside, instead of using that time to develop what we know we will need if this team does get it together.

I get it, the injuries have hamstrung this team beyond reason and more importantly, they have killed any opportunity to build chemistry. Also, I may be wrong, but IMO, they played better when Blake was out than they do now(one freaky blowout doesn't count). Kind of reminds me of when Reggie came back and gummed up the works, but this isn't near as bad.

Having said that, there could be help on the way. Please watch this all the way through, the thoughts to totally eliminate tanking are 100% spot on, and would have completely altered this team for the better with top draft choices.

Report: NBA, teams, players union discuss shortening season

[Sparma]

Good points, Murph.

I've long been an advocate of trading Griffin first. Just don't know if that's a real possibility now.

A few counter-considerations to your opposition to a trade of the sort that Charlotte is said to be offering though.

First, at this point we have less than a year of control left of Drummond. That's the principal value of the contract we'd be trading. No doubt a Charlotte would also be trading for an inside track to resigning by being able to be the only team to be able to offer a fifth year and more money (I happen to doubt they could resign him, and would see him bolting to, say, the Knicks for less money than Charlotte could offer). With Detroit, we'd also be trading away whatever loyalty Drummond has to the team.

Secondly, it's an unknown whether Drummond even wants to come back. If he doesn't, we should definitely trade him. My sense is that we don't know that though.

Maybe in some tension with the preceding: if we do trade him, there's a good chance that it would be because we did think he couldn't live up to a (super)max. The principal return for Sac when trading Cousins was not needing to have him take up a supermax slot in the budget. Turned out to be a good decision; we can debate with the apparently lopsided trade would have turned out well if Cousins had remained healthy. With Blake [different from AD & Cousins because he was freshly signed], in addition to all of the players and the big pick, a massive return for the Clips was no longer needing to devote such a chunk of the budget to him. Turned out to be a great choice, albeit that they were huge beneficiaries of their location in a way that we would not be.

At this point, we wouldn't get an even trade for Drummond. We still could get one that would be fair under the circumstances. I go back and forth on whether it should be taken (and you make great points about the Charlotte possibility). My difference from Don and Phil is that my main scruple's with the contract, rather than with AD as player.

My hunch is that the team will hold out as long as possible in trying to resign AD. All of the rumors do lead me to think that they'd now be willing to trade Griffin if he were back to playing at a high level, and if the team were struggling. And maybe moving forward with an expensive AD, along with Kennard and others would make the most sense.

I'll admit that a game by game developments are enough to tilt me in one direction or another concerning AD, not as player but in thinking of value to the team when taking future salary into account. I go back and forth, which is annoying to me, and I'd guess to others too.

w

AD for Malik Monk, Charlotte’s 1st rounder and expiring contracts?   Geesh....that’s depressing.  

First, Monk is another shooting guard.  Who’s he going to play ahead of?  Kennard? Brown?   No thanks.

Second,  if the season ended today, Charlotte’s pick would be 10th.  We aren’t getting any superstars at 10.  

And Third, what are we going to do with those expiring contracts?...sign some more third rate free agents like Markieff Morris and Tony Snell???  Again, no thanks.  

I will say this again and again, until it sinks in.  As long as Blake Griffin is on the team, it makes no sense to try to rebuild by trading the 26 year old Drummond.  Trade Griffin first, and then we can talk about trading Drummond.  But not before.  

The people like Don and Phil who are calling for Drummond to be traded are not thinking clearly.  

[Murph]

AD for Malik Monk, Charlotte’s 1st rounder and expiring contracts? Geesh....that’s depressing.

First, Monk is another shooting guard. Who’s he going to play ahead of? Kennard? Brown? No thanks.

Second, if the season ended today, Charlotte’s pick would be 10th. We aren’t getting any superstars at 10.

And Third, what are we going to do with those expiring contracts?...sign some more third rate free agents like Markieff Morris and Tony Snell??? Again, no thanks.

I will say this again and again, until it sinks in. As long as Blake Griffin is on the team, it makes no sense to try to rebuild by trading the 26 year old Drummond. Trade Griffin first, and then we can talk about trading Drummond. But not before.

The people like Don and Phil who are calling for Drummond to be traded are not thinking clearly.

[Sparma]

After reading the third Charlotte rumor story, I finally encountered a possible deal: contracts & Monk & a 1st rounder. I've been back and forth on Drummond, thinking he's a very good player, but also not one who could play up to a supermax. I'd do the Charlotte deal if it were offered.

I still think it's most likely that AD resigns with Detroit.

Apart from that, I've got a feeling there's a decent chance he could end up with the Knicks.

[cool breeze]

[quote="Sparma"]Didn't they start 13-7 and 14-6 in two of the last three years?

What gets old is them finding ways not to get beyond being mediocre year after year no matter how they start.  

[quote="Phil-Good"]Just checking in to see if anybody is sick of this some old Pistons routine?

This is how it goes every season.

Pistons F.U.C.K. off 30 games or so. Then just when they look like A lock for A top 5 pick, the Pistons run off A 10 game winning streak.


Then limp into all star break at around 500 or 4 or 5 games off from it.  

Then all our number 1 draft pick, dreams go down the drain as the pistons battle and play their life out for the 7th or 8th seed.

If I were running the Pistons I would be calling around the NBA to see what teams are willing to give up for Drummonds, Blake and all the Pistons expiring contracts.

And Blake stock is way down by the way. He looks like he still injured. Blake needs to sit out at least 20 more games. Blake looks slow and old at this point.


If I was running the Pistons I would have Bruce, C.Wood, Luke, 2019 Lottery pick, Bone, Sylvia, King, 2020-2025 first round picks, off limits. Anybody else would be on the trade block. Especially Drummonds. The Pistons are headed nowhere fast and Drummond finally looks like he ready to win.


I want to see the Pistons build A winner through the draft and development. Then when the core of the youth is then then you go out and sign or trade for A Blake Griff

Maybe opposing teams put two and two together after watching the Bucks humiliate the Pistons in the playoffs last year and actually create a game during regular season games. How rare is that? How many NBA teams actually bother to create a game plan in the regular season? I have been watching bits and pieces of other teams in the NBA and only a few teams appear to prepare for any specific opponent. Players just show up and coaches show up unlike what goes on with college teams. Maybe it is just not realistic to expect that players want to do anything but what they want to do in regular season games. There are just too many games and too much traveling. That has happened because of greed. The fans who pay for tickets or pay to watch their favorite NBA team ends up getting the short end of the stick. How many times have you heard from NBA players that they really don't watch NBA games? High basketball IQ players who put in the conditioning work come out as very successful NBA players. All they have to do is show up because coaches like Casey never create a game plan to stop opposing star players from having their way with the Pistons. There has been no motivation to improve the quality of the back court relating to perimeter defense. There is no plan to get players on board to run the 2nd, 3rd or 4 option in their offense for many years now.

Piston fans watch dull basketball played on a low basketball IQ level. They never get bad enough as Phil points out to secure the top talent. Bringing in Blake at his age and injury history to play with low basketball players has to be the dumbest thing that has happened in Piston history other than drafting Darko with our 2nd overall pick. A smart GM in the past drafted Isiah Thomas at that spot in the draft. But Zeke's teammate who was a smart player, decided to draft Darko and Rodney White with another pick. Who could have guessed that Joe Dumars would have done that?

Maybe there is some slight reason to hope for change Phil and Sparma. It appears that The Hornets are interested in Andre Drummond. Moving AD would be good for him and eliminates the possibility that Tom Gores will sign AD to a mega contract. I also wonder if the Suns might not be interested in AD. If so, we might be able to get their rights to a top pick in the next draft. How about the Pistons lose a ton of games this season and fans get to see all the young kids play. That would be exciting and I would purchase NBAPASS if that happened. The Pistons keep their 1st round pick and score big with two top picks next summer The City of Detroit would go nuts if that happened. This owner must be living in a bubble and has no insight into what Piston fans get excited about. Piston fans have watched champions perform and they know the difference between what they have been watching over the past 12 years and what came before.

[Sparma]

Didn't they start 13-7 and 14-6 in two of the last three years?

What gets old is them finding ways not to get beyond being mediocre year after year no matter how they start.

Just checking in to see if anybody is sick of this some old Pistons routine?

This is how it goes every season.

Pistons F.U.C.K. off 30 games or so. Then just when they look like A lock for A top 5 pick, the Pistons run off A 10 game winning streak.


Then limp into all star break at around 500 or 4 or 5 games off from it.  

Then all our number 1 draft pick, dreams go down the drain as the pistons battle and play their life out for the 7th or 8th seed.

If I were running the Pistons I would be calling around the NBA to see what teams are willing to give up for Drummonds, Blake and all the Pistons expiring contracts.

And Blake stock is way down by the way. He looks like he still injured. Blake needs to sit out at least 20 more games. Blake looks slow and old at this point.


If I was running the Pistons I would have Bruce, C.Wood, Luke, 2019 Lottery pick, Bone, Sylvia, King, 2020-2025 first round picks, off limits. Anybody else would be on the trade block. Especially Drummonds. The Pistons are headed nowhere fast and Drummond finally looks like he ready to win.


I want to see the Pistons build A winner through the draft and development. Then when the core of the youth is then then you go out and sign or trade for A Blake Griff

[Phil-Good]

Just checking in to see if anybody is sick of this some old Pistons routine?

This is how it goes every season.

Pistons F.U.C.K. off 30 games or so. Then just when they look like A lock for A top 5 pick, the Pistons run off A 10 game winning streak.


Then limp into all star break at around 500 or 4 or 5 games off from it.

Then all our number 1 draft pick, dreams go down the drain as the pistons battle and play their life out for the 7th or 8th seed.

If I were running the Pistons I would be calling around the NBA to see what teams are willing to give up for Drummonds, Blake and all the Pistons expiring contracts.

And Blake stock is way down by the way. He looks like he still injured. Blake needs to sit out at least 20 more games. Blake looks slow and old at this point.


If I was running the Pistons I would have Bruce, C.Wood, Luke, 2019 Lottery pick, Bone, Sylvia, King, 2020-2025 first round picks, off limits. Anybody else would be on the trade block. Especially Drummonds. The Pistons are headed nowhere fast and Drummond finally looks like he ready to win.


I want to see the Pistons build A winner through the draft and development. Then when the core of the youth is then then you go out and sign or trade for A Blake Griff

[cool breeze]

At this point, if I were Stefansky, I would cut Galloway.  We can’t trade home anyway, and we need his expiring contract.  So why not just cut him?   That would force Casey to play someone else.  

Great idea! Maybe if Stef. cuts Langston, Casey will get so mad he will walk away. Seriously I like the assistant coaches. They could make better decisions on who should be playing if Casey stayed home perhaps.

Was the real reason why Detroit made that trade for Blake actually because the owner wanted to make his son happy? That was the rumor. I thought it might have been a joke and not true. But for sure the press said Piston management was not on board or in agreement with that trade at the time and the owners young son was very excited. What will happen next? Will they give Reggie a new 5 year contract?

I guess that I am too hard on Tom Gores and the rest of the owners. Nobody has a crystal ball. But I liked Tobias Harris. He was not only a good guy but a very promising player at the time of that trade and Bradley always played hard.

[Murph]

And I hate to get down on Griffin, because he was a warrior for the last 1 1/2 seasons. But at this point, I don’t think his heart is in it. Ever time I turn around, Griffin is MCing some event, or telling jokes at a celebrity roast, or on some talk show telling how he dunked on Timofey Mosgov almost 10 years ago. Griffin is clearly looking toward his next career as a celebrity broadcaster. He has one foot out the door in the NBA. That’s fine. I’m happy for him.

But please, just bring him off the bench for 20 minutes a game, and let some hungry kid like Christian Wood start at PF. Wood needs to make his bones and earn a big contract. Please Casey...we are going nowhere...just play the kids.

[Murph]

At this point, if I were Stefansky, I would cut Galloway. We can’t trade home anyway, and we need his expiring contract. So why not just cut him? That would force Casey to play someone else.

[deusXango]

The Pistons have a number of wings who're highly skilled and athletic and not injured; Sekou Doumbouya, Svi Mykhailiuk, and Louis King...untried so one can make a case that they ain't sh!t, based on the fact, "sight unseen." So who does our coach start at SF? 6' 2" career, 2nd tier backup SG LANGSTON GALLOWAY! I'm not surprised that Da' Bulls kicked our ass royally. 20 point blow out. I don't care if Galloway scored 50 in his last game (they lost to the Hornets also) there is no justification starting him today. We're now #14 in the wretched east. The loss doesn't rest solely on Galloways shoulders but, what the f*ck is going on in the coaches mind? Why are we not exploring our assets abilities? Aren't they as much a part of this team as Gallows, Maker, Morris, Frazier, and Brown? The opportunities to have played Bone, King, and Sekou have been many in this young season. All of them couldn't have been greater embarrassments than what has gone before. IMHO Wood consistently out performs Maker, but Maker consistently beats Wood off the bench and that's flat out wrong!! Who's Brown's shooting coach? Stanley Johnson had a shooting coach so I know Bruce Brown has one.

The ship is sinking fast and there's no making excuses (back-to-back games, no Griffin or Rose, etc.) so under what circumstances do fans get a chance to see Wood, Sekou, King, and Bone play some extended minutes with Drummond, Griffin, Kennard, and Rose? Doesn't have to be anymore than 2-3 games; how much worse can they be than who's being shoved down our throats game after game?

[Sparma]

Murph: "Sparma...at this point, I would be in favor of calling up Sekou, Bone and King, to see what they can do.

I also liked your comparison of this years Pistons to the 96-97 Spurs. Unfortunately, I don't think there's a Tim Duncan in this year's draft. And even if there were, I don't think the Pistons are going to be bad enough to snag the #1 pick.

But that's definitely the idea. Shut down Blake, and tank for 1 season."

Yeah, I doubt we'll see another one year turn around like SA's again. But I'd thought you made a good point that a promising PG may well be within reach with a mini-tank.

Right now, post the Bulls fiasco, things are really bunched at Tankathon, but we're half a game out of the second spot. As I write they have us (in 4th spot) taking LaMelo Ball. Sweet!

I can't claim to have a good read on the youngsters, but my sense is that Bone's closest to straight up beating out a marginal NBA vet like Tim Frazier for NBA minutes. Sekou's got the highest upside, but I doubt that Casey sees him beating out the competition any time soon. King's spectacular, but probably farthest from an NBA rotation.

I'm surprised that we're turning the future so early in the season (and I doubt the FO is), but this has been an amazingly bad start, especially against a soft competition. I wouldn't rule out a run to respectability, but tonight gave no indication of that.

Field offers for Drummond, Snell, Rose, and Galloway, and go ahead with deals if they're fair. We're unlikely to get interest in the Griffin, Morris, and Jackson now. I'd hold on to Kennard now unless there's a killer offer.

[cool breeze]

The summer league assistant coaches appeared to be very good. Meanwhile, Imagine being an assistant coach working with some of the young guys while telling them that their chance could come at anytime. Be ready! The money is pretty good for assistant coaches in the NBA but I suspect they wish that they could be coaching in another city. When you have a head coach who continues to show us that his offense does not fit his team and his defense is just as horrible as the year before who is responsible? Player combinations need to be constructed to create the best possible team chemistry. Last season Johnson was the unselfish defensive minded pass first type player when he was selected to play. The coach didn't like Johnson and preferred Galloway and others. The interior defense suffered. There was no player who could guard any opponent on the perimeter. When the head coach pencils in his favorite vet players game after game regardless of the details that causes the team to show poor chemistry. Failing to execute the game plan especially on defense if one has actually been created, one has to wonder what the coaching chemistry might be like. Do they argue with Casey or submit and become YES men? And another important thing to consider might be what type of negative effect does this have on the young guys who are waiting for their chance wjhen they witness basic lack of effort or incompetence with players selected by the coach ahead of them? How can anyone keep any type of confidence that this Piston organization actually is willing to do the right thing? Perhaps none of the guys on the bench have what it takes to become a solid rotation players. After all looking at the Pistons draft history this organization might be judged the worse of any team in the league relating to picking the best player at their draft position or just throwing in draft picks to make bad trade deals or even worst just trying to give away picks to save money.

The one thing this ownership group hasn't given much thought to is what fans are thinking? Fans need to feel HOPE or they will lose interest in the Pistons if that hasn't happened already. Over the past 12 years those in charge have been extremely lazy or inept which has led to the current situation where a rebuild is necessary. We all knew a complete rebuild was necessary 11 or 12 years ago but that never happened. Unlike any other franchise, the Piston leadership has not had the guts to blow their team up completely and get several top picks in the draft. They trade for players who are past the high points in their careers and build up average to below average players by paying them more money than they are worth. SVG wanted to win NOW. Casey wants to win NOW. Nobody in charge has been thinking long term like other teams do.

This attitude by the ownership group relating to their negative feelings regarding the draft is puzzling. Was it the Darko pick that make them believe that they should go after other team's rejects instead of the draft? It is doubtful that the Pistons can actually convince any team with a top 3 pick to give it up for what the Pistons might offer. The Pistons currently have only three trade assets. Blake, Andre and Luke might be clear assets but two have some baggage. Nobody wants any of the other players who are currently getting playing time under Casey although they are better than Leuer. Of the 3 players, Luke is the guy I would keep. He has the potential to get a lot better especially if a future coach uses him at point guard. Who has the highest basketball IQ on the team? I believe it is Luke. Luke can play three positions and is on his rookie contract. Keep Luke and everyone else should be expendable if the organization is serious about a real rebuild. Get the payroll down and try to secure as many first and 2nd round picks as possible over the next 4 years. That is the only way we will ever see a top rated NBA player in his prime ever play for the Pistons. It will take 5 or 6 years possibly to build a team that can be solid. But fans will stay loyal if the ownership group stops what they are doing. They are playing the PT Barnum circus scam on their fans. It must end. I do not miss watching Piston games this season. I thought I would but so far I am much happier not watching the dysfunction. I see the highlights on NBA TV and will record their games if they are televised in my area. If one is paying for the games, you are compelled to watch the games. What a relief. The games involving the Pistons are just not fun to watch.

The Pistons need to change the culture. They need a bright young head coach and a younger person to head the front office who has vision. SVG had one foot out the door on the day of his hiring. Casey is right there with SVG snug and feeling secure with that sweet contract he is enjoying. Who knows how much influence Casey has on draft night but if someone's job was on the line to produce a competitive team I cannot believe that such a coach would have made the decision the team made last summer with their number one pick knowing how terrible the Pistons looked on defense in the playoffs. They selected a high risk project type player. There was no concern at all it appears with this ownership group relating to the weak perimeter defenders who played and lost while looking like the Washington Generals in the playoffs and all last season. Yep the owner was happy as a clam and brought the same crew back for another go around. And the head coach seemed especially happy last summer as well. No worries in Piston Land for sure.

I agree with others that the best decision now would be to rest Blake for the entire season if he cannot be traded. Get the team in a better draft position. Maybe Casey is on board with that and perhaps that is why he keeps playing Galloway and the other guys. Maybe he is trying to lose. If so my apology is due to our head coach.

[Murph]

"The moment I open my trap in their support, they do THAT.      

The cussing still echos off of my family room walls."

Lemon...no one is going to fault you for being overly-optimistic.  Optimism is in short supply around here.  We thank you.



Don...thank you for the scouting report on Nico Manion.  He sounds like a good one on both ends of the court.



Sparma...at this point, I would be in favor of calling up Sekou, Bone and King, to see what they can do.  

I also liked your comparison of this years Pistons to the 96-97 Spurs.  Unfortunately, I don't think there's a Tim Duncan in this year's draft.  And even if there were, I don't think the Pistons are going to be bad enough to snag the #1 pick.  

But that's definitely the idea.  Shut down Blake, and tank for 1 season.

[deusXango]

Watched part of a GR game the other day, as well as a 15+ min excerpt.

For what it's worth:

Louis King looks like a heck of a finisher; terrific athleticism and body control.

Jordan Bone handles well, looks to pass, can shoot from outside.

Sekou looks like he can do it all (at that level): rebound, finish, and, strikingly, pass.

The announcer passed along that the Drive are "always" tough on D!

Better days ahead, or some kind of Fata Morgana created by the level of competition.

Imagine, if you will, Quin Snyder, or Rick Carlisle, or "Pop" coaching THIS array of the Detroit Pistons. Would the record be the same as it is now? Would they be stuck on who to play? Would the defense be the same? Would they all be afraid to give rookie(s) PT when the veterans consistently underperformed? Would excuses be made to not play a Euro, regardless of his displayed talent for the game and universal recognition by NBA coaches, GM's, and scouts?

Imagine, if you will, some college coaches trying to establish themselves in the NBA like Tom Izzo, Mike Rhodes, Tony Bennett, Bruce Pearl, or Sean Miller; how would they have this group of Pistons performing? I'm sure John Beilein, would give up his eye teeth to start his NBA career with a roster like we have, even without Griffin, Rose, and the great Reggie Jackson!

The word is both Doumbouya and King are outplaying Snell and Galloway...Bone is reported to be able to make an ass out of Frazier on both ends of the floor but, that's D-league play and players like Wood, and Mykhailiuk can't get consistent extended minutes...our coach is working on getting some cohesion with players who won't be here next year. Don't you just love the way he's instilling confidence and developing talent.

[Sparma]

Watched part of a GR game the other day, as well as a 15+ min excerpt.

For what it's worth:

Louis King looks like a heck of a finisher; terrific athleticism and body control.

Jordan Bone handles well, looks to pass, can shoot from outside.

Sekou looks like he can do it all (at that level): rebound, finish, and, strikingly, pass.

The announcer passed along that the Drive are "always" tough on D!

Better days ahead, or some kind of Fata Morgana created by the level of competition.

[Sparma]

Teach 'em young.

I know that at my modest level of playing basketball and soccer, so much of defense is effort, alertness, and communication. It sounds like that's also true at the NBA level. So what the heck? The good news is that improvement should be quite possible, if only....

Rod Beard (from our old haunts at the detnews): "Two-way players Jordan Bone and Louis King and first-round pick Sekou Doumbouya have been lighting it up with the Grand Rapids Drive in the G-League. Bone is posting 20.3 points and 9.5 assists and shooting 42 percent on 3-pointers, and Doumbouya 16.6 points, 3.6 rebounds and 36 percent beyond the arc. King is at 19.2 points and seven rebounds. They may not get much time with the Pistons this year, but it bodes well for their development."

I like Murph's idea of not rushing Blake at all this year, maybe sitting him a lot, and getting a high pick PG in the draft, then having another go for a couple years.  That's assuming there's not a great trade to be had this season.  A mini-reset might be the way to go.  The ultimate exemplar are the Spurs who got a dynasty out of being abysmal for a year, and landing Duncan.  Can't see that in the offing for us, but maybe there's a fruitful middle ground between letting the vets carry us to further mediocrity and tanking.

That is good news.  Hummm, I wonder if they can remember a simple defensive instruction for more than 24 seconds.  

[cool breeze]

Another horror show.  Now we’re getting beaten by teams that are in full rebuild mode.  At this point, we should all hope that we lose even more.  Right now, we have the 5th worst record in the league. This year’s draft is very deep in PGs.   Theo Maledon, Cole Anthony, Nico Mannion and Killian Hayes should all go between 5-12.  

We should shut down Griffin for the season.  Something isn’t right.  He’s a shadow of his pre-All star self from last season.  

Don...any thoughts on Mannion?

Murph God must be looking out for me as I have not purchased NBAPASS. Otherwise I would be as upset as the posters who are watching the games. I hope they are getting the games for free at least. I go back to the playoffs last spring. It was crystal clear to anyone who doesn't have an emotional connection with the Pistons and knows NBA basketball. Casey's focus last season was offense and outside shooting. He ignored the lack of ability of the players he selected to play on the perimeter. The front office obviously didn't make the call to do that deal for Blake. That is on the ownership group. Why would a soft team at every position tie up a huge amount of money on an older star player when the rest of the roster is inept? It made no sense and every other GM and owner in the NBA knew it. But the ownership group even threw in our number one pick to make that deal. Then they followed that up with Sekou who was a high risk pick when there were some solid players available that the Pistons needed. Fans believe that the Piston front office and owner ship group knows what they are doing but they continue to prove otherwise.

You asked about my opinion on Nico Mannion. Mannion is a real point guard who can score in many ways but also has the rare quality of being to see 2 to 3 plays ahead. Arizona played Illinois who have some good guards. Nico dominated in the 2nd half. He has turned the ball over trying high risk passes but he does it when Arizona is way ahead and opponents have no chance of winning. He has easily broken every press either man to man or zone. And he does not let up energy wise on defense. Nico anticipates on defense and always keeps his feet moving. Arizona has had some 2nd rate point guards and 2 guards in the past few years outside of Trier and the point guards have been small players. Nico has an NBA body and has enough height to be successful as an NBA starter. The season is young so anything can happen but I expect Nico to get a lot better by the end of his freshman year.

Mannion plays in the backcourt with another high energy player who is another 5 star guard in Josh Green. He is also a freshman but really looks mature. Both Mannion and Green play with much higher energy on both ends than Stanley Johnson ever did as a college player. They play well together because they are unselfish.

Arizona's best player so far in my opinion is Zeke Nnaji. Zeke is another freshman with size at 6 foot 11 inches. If this guy doesn't become an NBA star providing he does not get injured, I will be shocked. This guy never gets tired. He is attacking on both offense and defense for every second he is on the floor. What a surprise. Zeke is a step faster and 2 seconds smarter than anyone he has played against so far in the paint. Nnaji guy has a deadly mid range jump shot and his overall shooting percentage is fantastic so far.. When Arizona double teams opponents Zeke is the guy who is on the floor and his arms are exceptionally long and he uses them well on defense and going strong to the rim. With all that said, the most interesting thing about this kid is that he is incredibly gifted in the classroom. His interviews amaze me as he is really articulate. His last interview revealed that he is attending Arizona because of their elite economics program.

One other thing the freshman players have at Arizona is the quality of their parents. Good values provided by solid adults is a sweet thing to have and a lot of kids are not lucky in that way. I have attended 4 games so far and it is clear that this is the most exciting Arizona team that I have witnessed in many years. The overall basketball IQ of this freshman group in incredible. So far I have not seen any player who doesn't box out or set screens with the proper positioning.

When thinking of Detroit professional sports teams lately I have to focus on the old photo I have in my dedicated sports room. My wife was a small kid at the time and was sitting next to Al Kaline who had one arm around her while showing off his 1968 World Series ring to the people surrounding them. The Tigers, Lions and Pistons need incredible luck to pull themselves out of the place they have landed. The Pistons have no other way to go but move up in the draft board if they ever want to build a team fans can be proud of in the future. It is obvious that the current ownership group doesn't think much of the draft. There are no guarantees but trading anyone with a big contract should be considered now before the trade deadline. Yet I think possibly the Piston brain trust might think that when Reggie Jackson gets healthy the Pistons will win the championship. So sad...

[lemonpen]

Rod Beard (from our old haunts at the detnews): "Two-way players Jordan Bone and Louis King and first-round pick Sekou Doumbouya have been lighting it up with the Grand Rapids Drive in the G-League. Bone is posting 20.3 points and 9.5 assists and shooting 42 percent on 3-pointers, and Doumbouya 16.6 points, 3.6 rebounds and 36 percent beyond the arc. King is at 19.2 points and seven rebounds. They may not get much time with the Pistons this year, but it bodes well for their development."

I like Murph's idea of not rushing Blake at all this year, maybe sitting him a lot, and getting a high pick PG in the draft, then having another go for a couple years.  That's assuming there's not a great trade to be had this season.  A mini-reset might be the way to go.  The ultimate exemplar are the Spurs who got a dynasty out of being abysmal for a year, and landing Duncan.  Can't see that in the offing for us, but maybe there's a fruitful middle ground between letting the vets carry us to further mediocrity and tanking.

That is good news. Hummm, I wonder if they can remember a simple defensive instruction for more than 24 seconds.

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