Bucks waive goodbye to Leuer...

[Oracle]

I'm not sure why they're doing this, but Bye Bye Leuer: Bucks waive veteran forward Leuer, acquired from Pistons

[cool breeze]

The longer things go with all of this Westbrook talk the more intrigued I become.    Wouldn't it be more fun discussing where we fit in the top three teams in the East instead of how we stack up against the bottom three.   Put the burden on Casey to make things work.  It's what he's paid to do.  After writing down some names I think there is some combination of keepers that would make this worth trying.  I admit to there being a tiny desire for instant gratification at work here, as opposed to playing wait and see with kids.  I've decided I could accept parting with Seku and a 1st, along with RJ, Snell, Galloway.  We would have a true Big 3 + Rose/Morris.  Beyond that, IDK, throw the kids out there for trial under fire.

That would make it exciting to head down to the LCA on some frozen Tues evening in Feb.

Or, maybe this is one of those instances when no decision is the best decision.

 

Well Lemonpen your comments are stirring the pot today. dX has made some well thought out statements. I love the thought of seeing what we have with the youngsters yet I know Casey pretty well and believe it is a pipe dream that this coach will ever play the kids before contracts. He has his stable of willing and able older vets riding high on their contracts. He loves Galloway so fans must take this into consideration. And this coach might be practicing with AD in secret coaching him on how to shoot the 3 point shot under pressure. No need to work on getting out on the shooters. We have the young athletic kids who might make some noise with their ability to defend. dX left out Thomas but I still believe in this guy. He has an exceptional athletic body like Brown. He drilled an amazing about of 3 pointers in the first summer league game with most of them being contested shots. But I will be shocked if anyone but Brown makes the rotation over the players Casey used last season. It boils down to who do you trust. Casey ignores the weaknesses with size and ability relating to defending the perimeter or at least he ignored the facts last season and got his ass handed to him in the playoffs for that strategy.

So I am with you at this moment in time because I do not trust Casey. Westbrook will get the Pistons a lot of wins in the East all by himself. That is the way he plays of course but what is knew. Who doesn't play for themselves on this Piston team? AD is the stat king who loves to swat the ball several times before making offensive rebound shots against teams with no center. That is his bread and butter. Blake loves to handle the ball and drive against 3 or 4 players or shoot the 3 from just beyond center court. And don't forget Reggie Jackson who is in his contract season as well. They will be fighting each other for their chance to touch the rock. The rest of the team orientated type players will be watching in their pre designated positions in Casey's offense. Westbrook will be pissing off a lot of our stud want to be All Stars if he does come. How will he get along with Reggie Jackson or will Reggie be part of the trade? We can't lose him. And of course this deal couldn't include AD. No way. We cannot live without this man. Yet I would give almost anything if Adams would replace AD. Adams runs instead of jogs back in transition. He would compliment Blake's game and he already knows how to stay out of the lane so Westbrook can slam it when players like Reggie Jackson take a break.

Look sports fans, the Piston fans have nothing to lose if management does make a deal with the Thunder. At least it would be interesting to see something different from what Casey currently has planned for us. You said this in a different way but I like it. Imagine how this would affect AD if he were not part of the trade. Westbrook would be lapping AD and he would get even more confused having such a fast player moving from baseline to baseline. But somehow I do not believe that Westbrook has the Pistons circled in as his favorite destination.

I love this Pistons Summer League Team and the fact that they are not playing in Orlando. That was such a dumb idea but I suspect SVG had something on the side going on when the Pistons played in that second rate venue. These young players give more effort or show a more consistent hard effort along with playing more as a team instead of individuals than at any time with our highly paid vets last season or the 3 seasons before that. Yet our vets who were no more than average seem to keep their status as potential world beaters by many fans during the summer months.

Remember when Stuckey when fans predicted that Stuckey would be breaking out next season. We kept on waiting and then the regular season started and then there was an announcement that goes like this. Rodney Stuckey has announced that he is OK with coming off the bench. Now that is a team guy but not the guy so many fans had so much faith in for so long. They ate up every news article Piston management could make up. Now it is AD the superstar. Will he sign with us next summer? Who will be courting him? Will they take him away from us? Fans were actually worried about some team taking Stuckey away from us. But Piston management made sure we were not disappointed.

[deusXango]

Plain and simple, this trade talk about us taking Westbrook isn't about making Detroit better but, making OKC a real contender in the West no less! When the phuque has Chris Broussard had The Pistons best interests at heart? Would Russell Westbrook guarantee a top three finish in the East for Detroit next season (his first in Detroit) or that the Pistons would advance beyond the second round? OKC didn't accomplish staggering results with Westbrook and PG13 so what makes anyone think miracles will happen with Russell in the red, white, and blue? I don't think this trade would be best for Detroit!! Oracle, I remain ice cold to the idea of trading for Westbrook. Now adding Steven Adams to our merry band?

We're ready to give up on Doumbouya already? We've seen all we need to see from Kennard? We hold no faith in, or curious to see if what we're witnessing in Summer League play can translate into the NBA season with the core we already have? Rose, Morris, and Snell will definitely make a positive difference. The young'uns we have "snapping at the bit" are certainly more team friendly and promises to be more exciting on a cold January night once the trek is made to LCA.

I'm looking at what Brown is doing as a progressing, athletic, PG candidate. Am I the only one who want to see Luke and Svi develop as perimeter snipers...here in Detroit? We watched Leuer sit for $10 million and still bring in some valuable assets, why must Casey play Galloway for extended minutes? He's gone at seasons end with Reggie and that's putting us in a position, CAP wise, to breath. We're still "winning now" and talent is being developed! We're still long and athletic and can be competitive as a defensive team.

The talking heads (Wojo) talk that sh!t about the failure of our past first round picks, (Henry Ellenson, Stanley Johnson, and Luke Kennard) not turning into stars or superstars...those were not Ed Stefanski picks anymore than the restrictive CAP situation could be laid at his feet; give the man a sporting chance. The Pistons landscape is littered with potential stars or a future superstar or two. Russell Westbrook would guarantee we would not see it happen here.

Fans blanched at the size of Griffin's contract but, Westbrooks is okay. Fans talk about the meaningless stats Drummond puts up and micro examines his shortcomings in a developing game but, Westbrook has a slew of them at the end of his career that we're willing to ignore...strange. I thought I was talking Detroit, not OKC. We'll get the best out of Griffin and let's not look to the future about Drummonds FA with paranoid/negative eyes, but see what Miami does when we back off from the Westbrook sweepstakes. Why isn't the Lakers or Knicks involved in this?

[Oracle]

I wouldn't say I was cool to the idea of trading for Westbrook at first, I was ICE Cold to it!

But like you, the more I studied it and looked at what we would give up, I got more interested in doing it. We immediately become relevant in the NBA and a true contender in the east.

Although  I'm hesitant to give up Sekou or Kennard, I'd have to see the outline of the deal. However, if we're in win now mode, this is a move that has to be high on your list, otherwise, you're blowing smoke, IMO.

The other good thing about this is that it would make load management a piece of cake. We could easily win games with Blake out! The team with just Westbrook is good enough to handle at least half of the east teams, ditto resting Westbrook & Rose.

BTW, if we don't get Westbrook, we need to be an active participant in the trade if we can pick up something else that can help us down the road.

The longer things go with all of this Westbrook talk the more intrigued I become.    Wouldn't it be more fun discussing where we fit in the top three teams in the East instead of how we stack up against the bottom three.   Put the burden on Casey to make things work.  It's what he's paid to do.  After writing down some names I think there is some combination of keepers that would make this worth trying.  I admit to there being a tiny desire for instant gratification at work here, as opposed to playing wait and see with kids.  I've decided I could accept parting with Seku and a 1st, along with RJ, Snell, Galloway.  We would have a true Big 3 + Rose/Morris.  Beyond that, IDK, throw the kids out there for trial under fire.

That would make it exciting to head down to the LCA on some frozen Tues evening in Feb.

Or, maybe this is one of those instances when no decision is the best decision.

 

[lemonpen]

The longer things go with all of this Westbrook talk the more intrigued I become. Wouldn't it be more fun discussing where we fit in the top three teams in the East instead of how we stack up against the bottom three. Put the burden on Casey to make things work. It's what he's paid to do. After writing down some names I think there is some combination of keepers that would make this worth trying. I admit to there being a tiny desire for instant gratification at work here, as opposed to playing wait and see with kids. I've decided I could accept parting with Seku and a 1st, along with RJ, Snell, Galloway. We would have a true Big 3 + Rose/Morris. Beyond that, IDK, throw the kids out there for trial under fire.

That would make it exciting to head down to the LCA on some frozen Tues evening in Feb.

Or, maybe this is one of those instances when no decision is the best decision.

[Sparma]

I thought I'd see my first published win prediction, from Brad Botkin at cbssports, but not quite.

He does currently predict that the Pistons will finish 9th in the East, behind the last playoff team (Orlando) that he sees having 44 wins. So maybe he'd predict 42-43 wins? Something like that.

I saw that 538 predicted wins for the top ten teams, but I didn't find win predictions for all NBA teams.

Maybe others have seen recent win predictions?

[Phil-Good]

Just Wait. Wait..Wait

I want to say this also. I'm so f.u.c.k.i.n.g sick of LA, NY and Miami. Anytime somebody name comes up all you get is those 3 places.

Like the rest of the NBA is the freaking waist-land that those 3 come and pick through.

F-THEM!

[Oracle]

Summer League: Bruce Brown is really driving this train!

He has full control of this team and he's making everybody better and setting the defensive tone as the Pistons are simply dominating opponents.

Somebody is going to get Costello, he played a stellar game today. Can't spell 3 pointer, but he's crafty around the basket and plays defense. Pacing the Pistons with 20 points today.

Lakers sign Avery Bradley: Wow, KCP and Bradley are both on the Lakers as they focus on matching the Clippers in defense. It's going to be interesting because the Lakers are HUGE and athletic. They have McGee, Cousins & Davis, LeBron & Kuzma. They could start a huge lineup when they want to play bully ball. 

BTW, please don't call Cousins Boogie anymore:  ‘I don’t want to be Boogie’ — DeMarcus Cousins tries on something new for size




Chris Broussard: Pistons should get Westbrook

[Oracle]

I wouldn't trade either Kennard or Sekou, unless there's something about Sekou that I don't know.

We have the Thunder bent over and we don't have to provide ANY grease, few(if any) other team can easily pull off this deal for Westbrook! The only future assets we should have to give up would be 2nd round picks or in a pinch a protected first. 

BTW, the Thunder would love the trade I showed because they save a ton of money!!! Reggie & Galloway, 25M, come off the books after next season where they were going to be a loser anyway, that's a great deal.

Giving up promising youngsters and a 1st round pick is lunacy and I'm shocked anyone would consider that, even a talking head!

Smith (posting at Forbes) is usually pretty insightful:

"This means that among the high-value assets they can consider sending out, a package including all of Luke Kennard, Sekou Doumbouya and multiple draft picks is out of the question. A deal involving Reggie Jackson, Langston Galloway, Thon Maker, either Kennard or Doumbouya and a protected future first round pick should be about as far as they're willing to go.

This deal including Doumbouya saves the Thunder almost $6.3 million for next season and gets them completely out of the luxury tax, which is more important than ever for them because they would be subject to the heavy fines of the repeater tax if they're over the threshold.

The deal would push the Pistons into the luxury tax, but Tom Gores has been begging for a team that is worthy of him spending into the tax."

[Sparma]

Smith (posting at Forbes) is usually pretty insightful:

"This means that among the high-value assets they can consider sending out, a package including all of Luke Kennard, Sekou Doumbouya and multiple draft picks is out of the question. A deal involving Reggie Jackson, Langston Galloway, Thon Maker, either Kennard or Doumbouya and a protected future first round pick should be about as far as they're willing to go.

This deal including Doumbouya saves the Thunder almost $6.3 million for next season and gets them completely out of the luxury tax, which is more important than ever for them because they would be subject to the heavy fines of the repeater tax if they're over the threshold.

The deal would push the Pistons into the luxury tax, but Tom Gores has been begging for a team that is worthy of him spending into the tax."

[Sparma]

I liked the building for the future approach that Stefanski seemed to be taking for a while. His covert rebuild.

If we do trade for Westbrook, this would be the kind of trade that would be ok with me. Doubt OKC would go for it though.

Also, I think there's a required delay before we can trade Snell.

[Oracle]

[Sparma]

As I think about it more, I wouldn't want to give up either Kennard or Sekou in a Westbrook trade. Saw Zach Lowe quoted as saying that Westbrook's contract [should] have negative trade value.

That said, I would not resist trading Kennard under all circumstances, this in disagreement with Murph. His trade value might be at its highest right now. I'm quite positive about Kennard, and see him becoming a very good player. With Griffin out, he showed against Philly what he can do. My hunch is that ongoing struggles getting his shot off, defensive limitations, and bouts of timidity will keep him from becoming a truly excellent player. So, if someone would offer the value for a truly excellent player in trade, I'd recommend considering it seriously. For me, on second thought, Westbrook on a terrible (and increasing) contract isn't that guy. Including him in a package for Beal would be a different story.

Sparma...Russell Westbrook is one of my least favorite players in the NBA.  He is a sure-fire chemistry killer, one of the most selfish players in the NBA.  He has an outrageously high usage rate, and an outrageously low true shooting percentage.  To top it off, no one likes to play with him.

That said, Gores just might go for it.  Having said that, I would NOT part with Kennard under any circumstances.  I really liked the way Kennard stepped up during the playoffs, and he is the opposite of Westbrook.  Kennard is the ultimate complimentary player...smart and willing to pass.

How about Jackson, Galloway, Snell and Sekou or Brown or Thomas and a 1st round pick for Westbrook?  

But would Westbrook tone down his game, and actually play within the Pistons system?  Would he pass the ball to Drummond and Kennard?  Would he defer to Blake?  In this late stage of his career, would Westbrook be willing to modify his game in order to win?  Stranger things have happened.

Trading for Westbrook would be a very Gores-ey move.

I'm not a fan of his style of play, think he's already overpaid in full health, and worry that he's a serious health risk.

Still....

Gores would not trade Drummond for him, I think, for the kinds of reasons that Don's raised.

I was trying to think of trades neither involving Griffin (what would the point be for OKC, even though he played for OU?) or Drummond, as favorite son.

Also, OKC won't get anywhere near the return they got for George (the Clips were in a desperate spot because they were either going to bring to George and Kawhi OR neither), but I doubt they'd go a straight salary dump for someone who's been averaging a triple double the past three years.

Something beginning with Jackson, Galloway, and a 1st rounder came to my mind.

I would have thought Snell couldn't be traded for a half year, but Vince Ellis brings up something like a Jackson, Galloway, Snell, and Kennard trade as legit according to the NBA Trade Machine.

I'd do that one.  We'd immediately be a legitimate candidate for an NBA finals (as well as a candidate for many years of NBA purgatory if things went wrong).

But I suspect we'd need to add a 1st rounder for OKC to go for it.  

I would have wanted to seriously build for the future, but if Gores wants to go for it, making good on his willingness to go into luxury tax for a star, it sure would be interesting.

[Oracle]

First on slobs getting more than Drummond!

Look, I love Middleton & Harris, but seriously, Harris is a 4th option, and not a reliable one at that. Middleton is exactly the reason the Bucks aren't going anywhere. People thought the Freak needs to get better, well, we can all improve, but what he needed more was a 2nd option that could actually do something, that isn't Middleton, he's WAY overrated. I still say Knight was the best player in that trade.

Bottom line: Drummond is better than Middleton & Harris combined!!!

One more thing, I'm also sick of people judging only from the results. Knight out played Middleton by a mile. Also, the Pistons weren't the 8th seed really, they were the 6th seed, only Griffin's injury caused them to be 8th seed, just like Kawhi's championship only happened because they didn't face the Warriors at full strength.

Yes, we accept the results because injuries are part of the game, but it's silly to fail to understand how they altered events, because if you do, you learn the wrong lesson and make mistakes.

Westbrook:
Pros
1. Might win the east
2. If trade keeps most youngsters, future remains safe
3. Great finisher
4. Triple double machine in a ball dominant fashion(almost contradictory, not sure how to figure this one)

Cons
1. A poor fit
2. Wrong side of 30
3. Game totally dependent on athletic ability
4. Poor 3 point shooter, average midrange shooter
5. Ball dominant, we'll need two for him and Blake, but see pros
6. Contract too big, not worth it
7. Might win the east, but not good enough to win it all


Bottom Line: This trade could go either way. I'd lean towards not doing it, but I wouldn't be totally against it if they did, keeping as many youngsters as possible. BTW, Sparma, there's no way to test if Gores would go over the CAP since Westbrook isn't a FA.

[Phil-Good]

Hey Murph.

We all in wait and see mode.

Your right. Everything you said is exactly why Drummonds will not be in Detroit much longer.


All we have to do now is count down the days.


And everybody knows Detroit wants Westbrook.

[Murph]

Sparma...Russell Westbrook is one of my least favorite players in the NBA.  He is a sure-fire chemistry killer, one of the most selfish players in the NBA.  He has an outrageously high usage rate, and an outrageously low true shooting percentage.  To top it off, no one likes to play with him.

That said, Gores just might go for it.  Having said that, I would NOT part with Kennard under any circumstances.  I really liked the way Kennard stepped up during the playoffs, and he is the opposite of Westbrook.  Kennard is the ultimate complimentary player...smart and willing to pass.

How about Jackson, Galloway, Snell and Sekou or Brown or Thomas and a 1st round pick for Westbrook?  

But would Westbrook tone down his game, and actually play within the Pistons system?  Would he pass the ball to Drummond and Kennard?  Would he defer to Blake?  In this late stage of his career, would Westbrook be willing to modify his game in order to win? Stranger things have happened.

Trading for Westbrook would be a very Gores-ey move.

I'm not a fan of his style of play, think he's already overpaid in full health, and worry that he's a serious health risk.

Still....

Gores would not trade Drummond for him, I think, for the kinds of reasons that Don's raised.

I was trying to think of trades neither involving Griffin (what would the point be for OKC, even though he played for OU?) or Drummond, as favorite son.

Also, OKC won't get anywhere near the return they got for George (the Clips were in a desperate spot because they were either going to bring to George and Kawhi OR neither), but I doubt they'd go a straight salary dump for someone who's been averaging a triple double the past three years.

Something beginning with Jackson, Galloway, and a 1st rounder came to my mind.

I would have thought Snell couldn't be traded for a half year, but Vince Ellis brings up something like a Jackson, Galloway, Snell, and Kennard trade as legit according to the NBA Trade Machine.

I'd do that one.  We'd immediately be a legitimate candidate for an NBA finals (as well as a candidate for many years of NBA purgatory if things went wrong).

But I suspect we'd need to add a 1st rounder for OKC to go for it.  

I would have wanted to seriously build for the future, but if Gores wants to go for it, making good on his willingness to go into luxury tax for a star, it sure would be interesting.

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