Salaries

[Murph]

Right.  So if you look at all those players on that list of the 25 top paid players in the NBA, Drummond is about right where he should be.  In fact, by my calculations, Drummond is slightly underpaid.  Of the 25 players on the list, I have Drummond ahead of 10 of them.  I think Drummond is more valuable than Griffin, Carmelo, Wiggins, Holiday, Porter, Whiteside, Howard (at this point in his career), Parsons, Barnes and Reddick.  

Griffin's salary is the real issue.  The Griffin trade was Van Gundy's last gasp at trying to salvage his career in Detroit, and it's going to hamstring us for years.

And then, as Oracle pointed out, we have several over-paid journeymen...Leuer, Galloway and Smith, which represent a combined $22 million of underperforming assets each year.

SVG sure did a number on our salary structure.  Geesh.

I'll ask it one more time Why are we paying BG, AD and RJ all this $$$ if the expectations are as low as they are?

The simple answer is that somebody thought they were either worth it now, or would be in the future. BTW, RJ doesn't make jack crap, I wish people would stop using that phony argument.

However, EVERYTHING is relative. Our payroll is high, not only because of these guys, but the MASSIVE amount we're paying scrubs to play, or in the case of Josh Smith, not to play.

So how overpaid are these guys? Blake certainly is up there, but Andre is tied for #20 on the list. Unfortunately, he's not as good as the guys he's tied with(Beal, Whiteside & Davis), IMO, but none of them meet your standards anyway, so there's that.

DeMar DeRozan — $27.7 million. ...
James Harden — $28.3 million. ...
Kyle Lowry — $28.7 million. ...
Blake Griffin — $29.5 million. ...
Gordon Hayward — $29.7 million. ...
Paul Millsap — $30.8 million. ...
LeBron James — $33.3 million. ...
Stephen Curry — $34.7 million

All I'm saying is that just because you happened to wake up after nearly 10 years of sleeping and decide you need to change the way you view the Pistons, is no reason to call us out for having a different view... you're abusing us   

We're starting the MeThree movement on your arse!

[Oracle]

I'll ask it one more time Why are we paying BG, AD and RJ all this $$$ if the expectations are as low as they are?

The simple answer is that somebody thought they were either worth it now, or would be in the future. BTW, RJ doesn't make jack crap, I wish people would stop using that phony argument.

However, EVERYTHING is relative. Our payroll is high, not only because of these guys, but the MASSIVE amount we're paying scrubs to play, or in the case of Josh Smith, not to play.

So how overpaid are these guys? Blake certainly is up there, but Andre is tied for #20 on the list. Unfortunately, he's not as good as the guys he's tied with(Beal, Whiteside & Davis), IMO, but none of them meet your standards anyway, so there's that.

DeMar DeRozan — $27.7 million. ...
James Harden — $28.3 million. ...
Kyle Lowry — $28.7 million. ...
Blake Griffin — $29.5 million. ...
Gordon Hayward — $29.7 million. ...
Paul Millsap — $30.8 million. ...
LeBron James — $33.3 million. ...
Stephen Curry — $34.7 million

All I'm saying is that just because you happened to wake up after nearly 10 years of sleeping and decide you need to change the way you view the Pistons, is no reason to call us out for having a different view... you're abusing us   

We're starting the MeThree movement on your arse!

[WTF]

@Wise: You've come to the conclusion that we should expect a lot from these guys, and that since you're found religion, everybody else should. This is funny, especially from the guy that has consistently had low expectations for this team.

So in that spirit, you should also not be a cynic, and praise them all the time, at least before the season starts, after that all bets are off, lol. If you can't do that, then your expectations are a joke without meaning, because it's not what you really believe.

I would never expect something unrealistic from this team, and that's not saying that they couldn't win 55 games, but high 40's makes a lot more sense considering the facts on the ground, like
1. There is almost no chemistry in the starting unit... yet.
2. They'll ALL(in the starters) be playing in an entirely new system

Realistically, I expect high 40's with them playing like a 55 win team by the time the playoffs get started. That would make me happy!


@DX: Reverse Discrimination? Come on Bro, that doesn't make a bit of sense. Stanley was a lottery pick and Stanley has shown flashes of becoming a star(ok, all in his rookie season, but...). Ellenson has promise, but I have to admit, his summer league performance was about as bad as it gets. Casey will still give him a shot, but this is a hard sell after what we all saw. I'm with Murph on this one, Leuer is 4 times the player Ellenson is right now, twice the offensive player and twice the defensive player, and that's being generous.

So yes, Ellenson is being discriminated against, but it's the proper discrimination, based on performance.

BTW, Leuer isn't a bad player.

No new religion found here I've just decided to follow the road I should have been on since 2009 perhaps longer.   There is a consistent question that seem to exist in almost of all of my post that not a single poster here will touch it seems.   I'll ask it one more time Why are we paying BG, AD and RJ all this $$$ if the expectations are as low as they are?  

What I'm doing is expecting the team get it's money worth.   I don't think anyone can honestly say or think that it's okay to pay Blake 35 Million a season, pay Andre 25 Million and Reggie 18 million a season that it's okay to have so little expectations of them and road paved with preapproved excuse if they don't meet them.   What I'm expecting is for them to go ball out each night like those enormous contract they're each getting.  So when I calculate it all up they owe us nothing less then 55 wins period.  

I could easily predict this team barely wins 40 games but I'm not confusing my predictions with my expectation.  Reggie sucks, AD still 2 years away or perhaps peaked and this is as best it gets,  and Blake is just here getting paid.   Are this what the organization paying for in return? are we all acceptable to what we're getting as fans?  

55 wins that's not just on the players it on the organization as a whole to deliver on that,  so as I see the flaws and concerns that not really my concern  expect it to be corrected and fixed to meet the 55 wins.

[Oracle]

@Wise: You've come to the conclusion that we should expect a lot from these guys, and that since you're found religion, everybody else should. This is funny, especially from the guy that has consistently had low expectations for this team.

So in that spirit, you should also not be a cynic, and praise them all the time, at least before the season starts, after that all bets are off, lol. If you can't do that, then your expectations are a joke without meaning, because it's not what you really believe.

I would never expect something unrealistic from this team, and that's not saying that they couldn't win 55 games, but high 40's makes a lot more sense considering the facts on the ground, like
1. There is almost no chemistry in the starting unit... yet.
2. They'll ALL(in the starters) be playing in an entirely new system

Realistically, I expect high 40's with them playing like a 55 win team by the time the playoffs get started. That would make me happy!


@DX: Reverse Discrimination? Come on Bro, that doesn't make a bit of sense. Stanley was a lottery pick and Stanley has shown flashes of becoming a star(ok, all in his rookie season, but...). Ellenson has promise, but I have to admit, his summer league performance was about as bad as it gets. Casey will still give him a shot, but this is a hard sell after what we all saw. I'm with Murph on this one, Leuer is 4 times the player Ellenson is right now, twice the offensive player and twice the defensive player, and that's being generous.

So yes, Ellenson is being discriminated against, but it's the proper discrimination, based on performance.

BTW, Leuer isn't a bad player.

[Murph]

Again, I am not a big Jon Leuer fan, and hate to defend him.  But part of the problem last year was that for some reason SVG was playing Leuer out of position at the stretch 5.  Leuer is by no stretch of the imagination a center.  He's 6'10 and 225, and is not overly physical, active or athletic.  

So when Leuer got hurt, Eric Moreland came in and thoroughly out-played Leuer at the reserve center spot, which is understandable.  After all, Moreland is a center; Leuer is not.  There is only one position on the basketball court that Leuer can play, and that's PF.  Why SVG thought he could play center is beyond me. That was just one more complete and total mental meltdown on SVG's part.

So again, my purpose here is not to hype Leuer.  He is an over-paid, mediocre PF.  However, if he is played at the PF position, and not as a center, he is at least mediocre and not terrible.

And if we have any hope of winning 50 or more games and making it to the playoffs this season, Leuer is going to have to play a lot of serviceable minutes.  Because of his injury history, I am hoping Casey limits BG's minutes to about 28-30 minutes a game in an effort to keep him healthy.  That means Leuer is going to have to stay healthy and play 18-20 minutes a game off the bench at PF, because Henry Ellenson is a bust.

We need Leuer to play 20 mpg off the bench at PF, the way he played for the Pistons two years ago.

[BallinD]

WTF,
It seems to my untrained eyes that we aren’t close to A 55 win team, just because of RJax and Leuer on the roster.  Can’t see it, hence my lack of positive comments about either one of these fine fellows.  Especially Weggie.  At best, physically he is in physical decline w/the chronic knee and a growing lack of burst and hops, and we know his asthmatic stamina is pure doo doo. Mentally he is selfish and has little desire to defend or consistently make plays for others. He is a below average 3pt shooter and plays quite poorly on SGOB2B games. Without burst nor stamina, nor maybe a team first attitude approach, his skills are unable to compensate.  Gotta move him but probably can’t.  

Leuer to me is a safer bet and that is scary to even contemplate.  He is a middling talent, but not a malcontent nor a chronic fool, just a serviceable guy maybe with confidence issues when he is overmatched.

There are questions about our SF position as well but they pale beside our skunks.

Can a skunk change his stripes?  Can we win 55 w/o a change in our floor leader.

Will Blake be our new floor leader. Can he carry us to 55 Wins? Can we pull off a trade?

[WTF]

Nothing wrong with speaking definitively either they can or can't so why add all the disclaimers and planting seeds for doubt?   If higher expectations are a setup for failure and disappointment then certainly not having high expectation is preparing to expect and accept failure.

Why be on the fence about what this team need to be doing today instead of what you think they could be capable of 2 years down the road.  It's said that not a single player talks about winning a title now.  We have 3 players on 4 and 5 years deal making on average 20 plus millions a season that don't speak of winning titles because they are simply content to play out their contracts with minimum effort.  They can do this because they have fans making excuses for them while they continue to lower the bar in the process.  

I have no desire to be that kind of fan and I will be happy being angry all season and after if 55 wins aren't achieved by season end or look unlikely in the process of the season.    

Someone please tell me again why are we paying BG, AD and RG all this money?   Are we cheering for 2nd place or 1st place?   I won't be making a prediction this season I will be offering up my expectations for the season this year.  So please put me down for 55 wins or better 

You all lower the bar and the team still doesn't meet those tiny expectations  I think it's all of you that should be pissed off every season or at least more angrier than me.

I expect everything to be better from top to bottom with this team PERIOD

[BallinD]

My first impression of Ellenson in summer league was shock at how bad he looked.  I immediately thought this whole 2 yrs of development under SVG was a waste, and second that he was not an NBA player.  He looked like a deer in headlights, frozen into a stiff, herky-jerky flat-footed bricklayer.  His shot was flat off the front of the rim, and every shot seemed rushed even when he was wide open.  His dribble forays disasters exposed a high handle. But I liked the rope they gave him in that laboratory and decided he needed a lot more of that before the flip switches on for Oh Henry. I believe it can and hope Casey et al can fix him.

In a few months we will all have the same debate about “broken Stanley”.  Watching video of him working out with B Jennings and Melo, I saw no evidence of him working on his offensive game, expanded range or for that matter, anything hopeful, and the same for his Drew league clips showe no efforts to work on what he is not good at.  No effort to stretch his game.

I hope this is small sample size.  But I recall that was the same impression Casey conveyed in an interview after he was hired, so I do not doubt my impressions.  Casey said he was working on the wrong stuff. Is Stubborn Stanley (per SVG over the past few years) a thing?  I fear more than a tweak, he’ll need consistent tough love over the course of a season. Can even that work?  He still can’t go to his left, and SVG made that part of Stanley’s previous years progress report.

We need one of these guys to pan out, but I fear that except for Luke, SVG really really sucked at drafting.

[Murph]

I would be comfortable with some combination of Kennard, Bullock, Robinson, or maybe even Stanley Johnson (if he can limit his offense to driving to the hoop and corner 3s) starting at the 2 and 3.

But what I am not on board with is having to rely on Henry Ellenson to play any significant minutes.  I was appalled at the way Ellenson played in summer league.  His defense was non-existent.  

I'm not a big Jon Leuer fan, but he's light years ahead of Ellenson.  So unless we can acquire another reserve PF, I am no longer in favor of trading Leuer.

Ellenson is shaping up to be a complete bust.  He's another Austin Daye.  I don't care how much Kevin Garnett kicks his as in workouts, it is unlikely that Ellenson will ever become a serviceable NBA player.

At this point, I just can't see the Pistons picking-up Ellenson's option at the end of the season. He's a waste of a roster spot. It's time to move on from Henry Ellenson.

[deusXango]

What I'm witnessing with 21 year old Henry Ellenson is reverse discrimination when compared with the treatment of Stanley Johnson, who's also 21 years old, a "one and done" who has underperformed for 3 years as a Piston. They both have uniquely undeniable skill/physical gifts, but Ellenson is on his way out (if some have their way) after 2 years under SVG and Johnson is being given a chance to earn a new contract going into his 4th year. Personally I think both those young men deserve room to develop as Pistons, if the current brain trust is serious about developing its' youth.

Luke Kennard deserves a chance at starting at SG and the hyperbole about starting GRIII or Stanley J. over Reggie Bullock at SF is pure nonsense and insulting; combined, they both didn't have the year that Bullock did, plus there's clearly chemistry developing between Bullock and Griffin. IMHO these 2 guys should get an opportunity to develop as starters with our "Big 3."

I don't care to watch Leuer sh!t his pants another year and it appears that GRIII, the drafted rookies, and Keenan E. are making some overpaid veterans expendable; why can't we buy Leuer out, or parlay the contractual waste into a bunch of 2nd rounders? After all, there's nothing that can be done with that "clever" stretch provision of SVG that has us still carrying Josh Smith on the payroll.

[Sparma]

WTF: "I guess 55 would be beyond the realms of the imagination considering low bar of expectations."

Foreseeing a misreading I capped a key word: "And I'm not saying they CANNOT do it...."

Moving on.

[WTF]

The Pistons have won 55 (or the equivalent in winning percentage when playing fewer games) four times in their 70 year existence.  Why that should be set as a minimum expectation this year is beyond me, other than as a prompt for season long misery.

I think they did win 54 another 3 times, along with at least one other 53.

And I'm not saying they CANNOT do it; heck, in my foolishness I predicted 54 wins last year.

Vegas has them sitting right around the .500 mark, I think, which is a tad low for my tastes.

Thank Goodness I'm prepared to be miserable and highly opinionated all season if they don't.    I guess 55 would be beyond the realms of the imagination considering low bar of expectations.   Sorry but when you have no interest in settling for less than a run at a championship of course. 

Amazing that when I reference history I'm old in thought but some can reference history to explain why the expectation should exist.   We the team won 59 games 3 times, 63 and 64 once.   Gee from 2001 to 2008 the team one no less than 50 games and from 1986 to 1991 that team won no less than 50 games and both times these feats were accomplished against far superior talent.  But here we are finding it impossible for this highly paid team to do it during this watered down, soften up time in NBA history.  

Why should you expected? because that's what champions do!  Hell even the Teal Team manage 54 wins once.   Funny how much some tout AD as the primo center though he can't say he shared a 50 game win seasons with Ben, Bill, Bob and Bison 

[Sparma]

The Pistons have won 55 (or the equivalent in winning percentage when playing fewer games) four times in their 70 year existence.  Why that should be set as a minimum expectation this year is beyond me, other than as a prompt for season long misery.

I think they did win 54 another 3 times, along with at least one other 53.

And I'm not saying they CANNOT do it; heck, in my foolishness I predicted 54 wins last year.

Vegas has them sitting right around the .500 mark, I think, which is a tad low for my tastes.

[Sparma]

Great, great, team. The next year was one of my disappointing ones as Tiger's fan when they won, like, 83 with roughly the same cast of guys.

I watched Morris's no hitter live in Chicago that year (game 4), maybe the most memorable game I've attended, other than my first game in '65 with Sparma pitching vs Sudden Sam, and watching Denny come back with the Senators vs Joe Niekro. Well, wait, watching Fidrych pitching the home opener in his 3rd (!) season, still good, but just about done as it turned out, was really exciting too.

I think that '84 team was the best team of the decade. The '86 Mets had the better regular season, but they eked through in the playoffs, v Buckner of course, but also against a terrific Mike Scott in the NL playoffs as I remember.

Shame that Whitaker's not there too. His career was quite similar to Trammel's, except that Trammel won the '84 Series MVP and really should have won the '87 AL MVP, finishing second.

Congratulations to Jack Morris and Alan Trammell for finally being elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame.  Both players were an integral part of the 1984 Tigers World Series Champions.  

Back when I was still a big Tigers fan, that was a magical year.  I still remember that team jumping out of the gates winning something like 34 of their first 39 games, then coasting the rest of the way to a World Series win over the Padres in 5 games.  That team was managed by HOFer Sparky Anderson, and Roger Craig was the pitching coach, who revolutionized the game by teaching both Morris and closer Willie Hernandez the split finger fastball.  Hernandez won the Cy Young that year with 32 saves and a 1.92 ERA.  

Other notables on that team were Lance Parrish, Kirk Gibson, Lou Whitaker, Darrel Evans, Dan Petry, Milt Wilcox, Chet Lemon, Howard Johnson, Larry Herndon and Aurelio Lopez.

Later in his career, Morris went on to pitch one of the greatest games in World Series history for the Minnisota Twins.  He pitched a Game 7, 1-0, 10 inning complete game victory over the Atlanta Braves.  

[Murph]

Congratulations to Jack Morris and Alan Trammell for finally being elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame. Both players were an integral part of the 1984 Tigers World Series Champions.

Back when I was still a big Tigers fan, that was a magical year. I still remember that team jumping out of the gates winning something like 34 of their first 39 games, then coasting the rest of the way to a World Series win over the Padres in 5 games. That team was managed by HOFer Sparky Anderson, and Roger Craig was the pitching coach, who revolutionized the game by teaching both Morris and closer Willie Hernandez the split finger fastball. Hernandez won the Cy Young that year with 32 saves and a 1.92 ERA.

Other notables on that team were Lance Parrish, Kirk Gibson, Lou Whitaker, Darrel Evans, Dan Petry, Milt Wilcox, Chet Lemon, Howard Johnson, Larry Herndon and Aurelio Lopez.

Later in his career, Morris went on to pitch one of the greatest games in World Series history for the Minnisota Twins. He pitched a Game 7, 1-0, 10 inning complete game victory over the Atlanta Braves.

[WTF]

Why is it we cheer the demise of other team oppose to just wanting our team to be the better team regardless to the shortcomings of others.  I would rather be cheering the team on base on the simple fact that they are indeed heads above every other team healthy and at full strength.    

I'm starting to smell excuses or cheering of another run at 8th seed.  I swear what ever happen to bringing your best against the other teams best.  I would rather be cheering David beating Goliath but then I guess I'm being old again with my yester years thinking.    I guess today it's okay cheer injuries and hope your team benefit from them.

Lebron gone great, Kyrie might not be ready, so and so no longer on the team, that coach is gone, this players gone so it should be easy now.   I so thankful that I got to witness Zeke defy the odds and over came Bird and Magic,  I'm glad I saw them grow from the ass whipping from the Knicks and Hawks, I glad I witness them holding off the rising MJ.   I'm glad I witnessed our 2004 Champs  beat a team of HOF'ers, brawling with the Pacers, overcoming the Nets and taking it to the Spurs in a second trip to the finals.   

I'll be damn if I start handing out kudos because the east is perceived easy    Yeah all the more reason a 55 win season should be the minimum we accept and expect from them.

[Sparma]

I don't know if Casey's such a world beater, or even whether he's so much better than SVG for his career, but I do think he's going to have a much bigger impact on the team at least this year than SVG had last year, when he seemed to have kinda lost his influence after the hot start. For instance, I do expect Stanley to have his best year, and for us to see more of the good Reggie than we're used to, largely due to Casey. How much of a difference that will make, I'm not sure, because I don't see either of those guys functioning at star level. Still, it will be nice to see team and coach in sync, something we didn't see last year after the first 20 games.

Sparma, I like what you imply about our prospects...which is that Casey will have to and is capable of reigning in SJ n Weggie.  I think he has the gravitas and dare we say “tough love” to pull all this off.  Certainly it seems the puzzle pieces are all there.  It is scary to say in DC we trust, but after SVG the bitter taste just won’t quite go away.  Looks like the training camp competition will be off the chain.

ad 1) I'll vote for Blake over Love in their primes.  Another question: who's going to be closer to his prime next year?  Could well be Love, who'll put up big numbers sans LeBron; I'm expecting good things from Blake too THIS season though, if healthy.
ad 2) SJ will be better next year, because Casey will use him better than SVG, maybe just coach him better.  He won't, however, figure out a) distance shooting, b) just how inefficient his middle distance shooting is.  Get to the basket or the corner, sir; it's not that hard.  That's on Casey to enforce.
ad 3) Weggie won't get it, but, still, he may do better too.  The secret with him is to impose the right way of playing on him/ solicit the team-minded Reggie J, whether by limiting his minutes or his access to the ball.  I'm betting more on the latter, with Casey psyched for BG to be the best passing forward in the NBA.
ad 4) FO's looking better (btw, heard SVG on Sirius today, sounding relaxed, energetic, and still all-knowing).  Per your earlier post, BallinD, I think our new analytics guru may be more a test of/ opportunity for Casey than anything else.  Was he in good faith when saying the right things in his lengthy talks with Gores about having figured things out in Toronto last year (rather than having stuff imposed on him, as rumored)?  The combo (old school-new school) could work out pretty well (btw, I was confused about Langlois sounding like the last big FO hire would be an analytics person; did I read that wrong?).
ad 5) Nuff shooting?  Only if our volume 3 pt shooting BG adds a few %points to that distance shot, or defers to the good shooters we do have.  Can Calderon really make it on the floor much, unless our #1 or #2 PG is traded, maybe into the season in Reggie J's case?  If so, he'd add shooting, smarts, and passing, but he'd also kill ya on D.

I think it was last year that the East was open, with Boston suffering injuries, Philly too young, Toronto wobbly in the playoffs, Wash off, and Cleveland a one man show all too often.  We've at least got to get ahead of Cleveland this year.  Should happen.  Come playoff time, I'd think at least three teams (B, P, T) would be serious barriers.  And we don't do well against Wash.  Could that change with Gortat gone?  I'm not counting on it.

State of the world?  Reluctant to comment, but when the Prez's followers (at least the more casual ones) would like him to shush more often, you know something unusual's going on.  Which party totally fractures first?

My first post on my phone/ since my notebook got hacked.
1. Great Twitter debate about who is better in their prime; Blake or Kevin Love.  I vote Blake, same as Ellis. Never too early to drink some kool aid.
2.can SJ finally get it together (Casey talked him up some) or does it even matter w/ GRIII in the House. I say keep SJ on the bench, he likes the ball in his hands, can’t space the floor for our “Big 3”
3. Will Weggie finally get it? Doubtful. A recent SNews video had Rod Beard swallowing his tongue and giving a subtle shake of his head when Niyo asked him if Weggie is ready to accept Blake’s point forward role. Worrisome.
4. FO seems so much stronger n nimble.  Can AK pay off, the new analytics guru and Casey dot all the i’s and cross the t’s?
5. With Bullock and Kennard n maybe GRIII shooting, possibly add Calderon in a small ball lineup, we should have enough shooting?  Now we also got secondary Ball handlers.  Is it enough? I think this whole idea that the East is wide open is fools gold.  Boston Toronto and Philly we know about. I worry about Indy as well.  Should be a great season.

As for this crazy world? I say hang onto your seats.  Looks like they are trying to cook up civil war and WW 3, w/destruction of the middle class as an ancillary benefit.

[Oracle]

Don, your post, while straying in some parts, hit upon something Zeke said when describing the secret of basketball.

The full article is here: Kevin Love and The Secret of Basketball

In the first chapter, Simmons shares a unique conversation he shared with NBA legend Isiah Thomas (not to be confused with Cavs legend Isaiah Thomas). Thomas was the star guard for the “Bad Boys” Detroit Pistons of the late 80’s and early 90’s. Simmons always wondered how Thomas’s Pistons were able to compete with so many star-studded teams. Simmons labeled this type of phenomenon as “the Secret of Basketball.”

Isiah explains to Simmons that “the Secret of Basketball is that it’s not about basketball.” Head scratcher right. Simmons explains how these Pistons teams obviously had talent but it didn’t stop there. “They won because they liked each other, knew their roles, ignored statistics, and valued winning over everything else. “

Sounds so simple, yet it eludes most of the NBA teams every single year!

[BallinD]

Sparma, I like what you imply about our prospects...which is that Casey will have to and is capable of reigning in SJ n Weggie.  I think he has the gravitas and dare we say “tough love” to pull all this off.  Certainly it seems the puzzle pieces are all there.  It is scary to say in DC we trust, but after SVG the bitter taste just won’t quite go away.  Looks like the training camp competition will be off the chain.

ad 1) I'll vote for Blake over Love in their primes.  Another question: who's going to be closer to his prime next year?  Could well be Love, who'll put up big numbers sans LeBron; I'm expecting good things from Blake too THIS season though, if healthy.
ad 2) SJ will be better next year, because Casey will use him better than SVG, maybe just coach him better.  He won't, however, figure out a) distance shooting, b) just how inefficient his middle distance shooting is.  Get to the basket or the corner, sir; it's not that hard.  That's on Casey to enforce.
ad 3) Weggie won't get it, but, still, he may do better too.  The secret with him is to impose the right way of playing on him/ solicit the team-minded Reggie J, whether by limiting his minutes or his access to the ball.  I'm betting more on the latter, with Casey psyched for BG to be the best passing forward in the NBA.
ad 4) FO's looking better (btw, heard SVG on Sirius today, sounding relaxed, energetic, and still all-knowing).  Per your earlier post, BallinD, I think our new analytics guru may be more a test of/ opportunity for Casey than anything else.  Was he in good faith when saying the right things in his lengthy talks with Gores about having figured things out in Toronto last year (rather than having stuff imposed on him, as rumored)?  The combo (old school-new school) could work out pretty well (btw, I was confused about Langlois sounding like the last big FO hire would be an analytics person; did I read that wrong?).
ad 5) Nuff shooting?  Only if our volume 3 pt shooting BG adds a few %points to that distance shot, or defers to the good shooters we do have.  Can Calderon really make it on the floor much, unless our #1 or #2 PG is traded, maybe into the season in Reggie J's case?  If so, he'd add shooting, smarts, and passing, but he'd also kill ya on D.

I think it was last year that the East was open, with Boston suffering injuries, Philly too young, Toronto wobbly in the playoffs, Wash off, and Cleveland a one man show all too often.  We've at least got to get ahead of Cleveland this year.  Should happen.  Come playoff time, I'd think at least three teams (B, P, T) would be serious barriers.  And we don't do well against Wash.  Could that change with Gortat gone?  I'm not counting on it.

State of the world?  Reluctant to comment, but when the Prez's followers (at least the more casual ones) would like him to shush more often, you know something unusual's going on.  Which party totally fractures first?

My first post on my phone/ since my notebook got hacked.
1. Great Twitter debate about who is better in their prime; Blake or Kevin Love.  I vote Blake, same as Ellis. Never too early to drink some kool aid.
2.can SJ finally get it together (Casey talked him up some) or does it even matter w/ GRIII in the House. I say keep SJ on the bench, he likes the ball in his hands, can’t space the floor for our “Big 3”
3. Will Weggie finally get it? Doubtful. A recent SNews video had Rod Beard swallowing his tongue and giving a subtle shake of his head when Niyo asked him if Weggie is ready to accept Blake’s point forward role. Worrisome.
4. FO seems so much stronger n nimble.  Can AK pay off, the new analytics guru and Casey dot all the i’s and cross the t’s?
5. With Bullock and Kennard n maybe GRIII shooting, possibly add Calderon in a small ball lineup, we should have enough shooting?  Now we also got secondary Ball handlers.  Is it enough? I think this whole idea that the East is wide open is fools gold.  Boston Toronto and Philly we know about. I worry about Indy as well.  Should be a great season.

As for this crazy world? I say hang onto your seats.  Looks like they are trying to cook up civil war and WW 3, w/destruction of the middle class as an ancillary benefit.

[Murph]

Interesting ratings.  NBA2K does a pretty good job rating players overall.  I pretty much agree with their ratings of the Pistons, with a few exceptions.

On Reggie Jackson, it depends if we see the good Reggie or the bad Reggie.  Overall, I'd lower him 2 points to a 78.

Zaza is too high at 78.  Maybe he should be a 76?

Robinson, Kennard and Moreland are too low.  Maybe Robinson and Kennard should be 75s, and Moreland a 73 or 74?

I'm glad they left Ellenson off the list. How low can you go?

[Sparma]

ad 1) I'll vote for Blake over Love in their primes. Another question: who's going to be closer to his prime next year? Could well be Love, who'll put up big numbers sans LeBron; I'm expecting good things from Blake too THIS season though, if healthy.
ad 2) SJ will be better next year, because Casey will use him better than SVG, maybe just coach him better. He won't, however, figure out a) distance shooting, b) just how inefficient his middle distance shooting is. Get to the basket or the corner, sir; it's not that hard. That's on Casey to enforce.
ad 3) Weggie won't get it, but, still, he may do better too. The secret with him is to impose the right way of playing on him/ solicit the team-minded Reggie J, whether by limiting his minutes or his access to the ball. I'm betting more on the latter, with Casey psyched for BG to be the best passing forward in the NBA.
ad 4) FO's looking better (btw, heard SVG on Sirius today, sounding relaxed, energetic, and still all-knowing). Per your earlier post, BallinD, I think our new analytics guru may be more a test of/ opportunity for Casey than anything else. Was he in good faith when saying the right things in his lengthy talks with Gores about having figured things out in Toronto last year (rather than having stuff imposed on him, as rumored)? The combo (old school-new school) could work out pretty well (btw, I was confused about Langlois sounding like the last big FO hire would be an analytics person; did I read that wrong?).
ad 5) Nuff shooting? Only if our volume 3 pt shooting BG adds a few %points to that distance shot, or defers to the good shooters we do have. Can Calderon really make it on the floor much, unless our #1 or #2 PG is traded, maybe into the season in Reggie J's case? If so, he'd add shooting, smarts, and passing, but he'd also kill ya on D.

I think it was last year that the East was open, with Boston suffering injuries, Philly too young, Toronto wobbly in the playoffs, Wash off, and Cleveland a one man show all too often. We've at least got to get ahead of Cleveland this year. Should happen. Come playoff time, I'd think at least three teams (B, P, T) would be serious barriers. And we don't do well against Wash. Could that change with Gortat gone? I'm not counting on it.

State of the world? Reluctant to comment, but when the Prez's followers (at least the more casual ones) would like him to shush more often, you know something unusual's going on. Which party totally fractures first?

My first post on my phone/ since my notebook got hacked.
1. Great Twitter debate about who is better in their prime; Blake or Kevin Love.  I vote Blake, same as Ellis. Never too early to drink some kool aid.
2.can SJ finally get it together (Casey talked him up some) or does it even matter w/ GRIII in the House. I say keep SJ on the bench, he likes the ball in his hands, can’t space the floor for our “Big 3”
3. Will Weggie finally get it? Doubtful. A recent SNews video had Rod Beard swallowing his tongue and giving a subtle shake of his head when Niyo asked him if Weggie is ready to accept Blake’s point forward role. Worrisome.
4. FO seems so much stronger n nimble.  Can AK pay off, the new analytics guru and Casey dot all the i’s and cross the t’s?
5. With Bullock and Kennard n maybe GRIII shooting, possibly add Calderon in a small ball lineup, we should have enough shooting?  Now we also got secondary Ball handlers.  Is it enough? I think this whole idea that the East is wide open is fools gold.  Boston Toronto and Philly we know about. I worry about Indy as well.  Should be a great season.

As for this crazy world? I say hang onto your seats.  Looks like they are trying to cook up civil war and WW 3, w/destruction of the middle class as an ancillary benefit.

[BallinD]

My first post on my phone/ since my notebook got hacked.
1. Great Twitter debate about who is better in their prime; Blake or Kevin Love. I vote Blake, same as Ellis. Never too early to drink some kool aid.
2.can SJ finally get it together (Casey talked him up some) or does it even matter w/ GRIII in the House. I say keep SJ on the bench, he likes the ball in his hands, can’t space the floor for our “Big 3”
3. Will Weggie finally get it? Doubtful. A recent SNews video had Rod Beard swallowing his tongue and giving a subtle shake of his head when Niyo asked him if Weggie is ready to accept Blake’s point forward role. Worrisome.
4. FO seems so much stronger n nimble. Can AK pay off, the new analytics guru and Casey dot all the i’s and cross the t’s?
5. With Bullock and Kennard n maybe GRIII shooting, possibly add Calderon in a small ball lineup, we should have enough shooting? Now we also got secondary Ball handlers. Is it enough? I think this whole idea that the East is wide open is fools gold. Boston Toronto and Philly we know about. I worry about Indy as well. Should be a great season.

As for this crazy world? I say hang onto your seats. Looks like they are trying to cook up civil war and WW 3, w/destruction of the middle class as an ancillary benefit.

[cool breeze]

My out burst seem to have quiet the board or things are just that slow there's no need to post anything.  Look I'm not going to apologize for it because I'm not sorry for venting my thoughts on a non basketball related issue.  I didn't do it to get responses in fact I said just pay it no attention because I wasn't looking to debate what said.

No one here knows me personally you know I enjoy sports, you know I'm passionate about this team in one way or another.  I may have mention a hand full of things about me personally and my post my offer a small window of what type of person I might be.   So again I don't apologize for my comment but I am very sorry if some took offense to it.

I will tell you this that there's not much separating how I view sports and other life issues, they're connect on various levels.  Change isn't always progress so I rile against certain aspect of sports in the manner I rile against certain changes especially societal changes in the way we think and process behavior. I get roasted at times for this but it use to be a simple set of rules that applied to every even sports.  The rule was simple 1. Do the right thing 2. Give your best effort.

WTF we are all Americans who are supposed to live in a place where we are free to express our thoughts without persecution or condemnation. We live in a place where we can also agree that we disagree, shake hands and still be friends. Some want to change our way of life and not allow any intellectual diversity especially in our State supported universities. I see your passion and spirit and love what you bring to the forum. Never allow anyone to get under your skin with personal attacks. If everyone believed in doing the right thing in life and giving their best effort in professional sports, the world would be a much better place.

One thing we both have in common is our identification that some Piston players we have watched over the past 6 years have not played the right way or given their best possible effort at times. You have called them out and that has made some posters upset.Maybe I have been a lot more vocal than you over the years. But I am very disappointed that several highly paid players on past Piston teams have mailed it in when the snow flies in December, January, February and March. They fake it for half of the games at times and it shows with their lazy effort on defense where we see a lot of reaching instead of foot movement. Why do posters bring up stats to try to prove some of us fans really didn't see what we identified as fake basketball effort? I keep thinking maybe some might be paid to write on forums like ours. For sure they can't be watching some of the games that i bothered to watch.

I know one thing from being a player and coach. You can't coach effort. You can't motivate players especially at the NBA level to give more than they want to give. It is no different than trying to convince an alcoholic to stop drinking. It is sometimes in the nature of certain people to not do the right thing for their team and play their game the way they see it. How can anyone deny that the Pistons have shown that they have had poor team chemistry, failed to improve their overall conditioning level, or improve their skill level compared to other NBA players with the same experience? Why have the highest paid Piston players been outfoxed and out played by other rag tag teams like Miami in the past to knock the Pistons out of the playoffs. It was clear to me that Andre Drummond didn't want it bad enough when he allowed Whiteside to get that critical game winning tip in directly over AD who had signed a mega contract the year that that play happened. It has been clear to me that Reggie Jackson could give a crap about playing even average defense since he arrived in Detroit. Yet some fans are convinced that somehow with those two players dominating the payroll they will suddenly play ball a different way. The only way that will happen is if Blake Griffin becomes a real leader like Zeke. Neither of the players I mentioned would be around if Zeke had been the Pistons team leaders in the current time period. AD and RJ set the tone as to how serious the Pistons would be to playing the right way. Neither have been TEAM orientated and yet they will both return. This season AD will be will be testing out his new 3 point shooting skills instead of learning how to box out on the defensive glass in crunch time. I wonder if he ever worked out with Kevin Durant and if so for how long? That is what AD needs. He needs someone to be honest with him and AD needs to accept criticism.

In many respects the Pistons might have the same problems next season that they experienced this past season. Hopefully Casey sizes up things quickly and ends the nonsense and does not tolerate some of the things that SVG tolerated as normal behavior. When opponents like Phoenix who were trying hard to lose and get the first overall draft selection manage to out fox and out work our players, SVG should have at least sent some of his pets to the bench.

That was my rant today which has been much like everyone of my other posts. Got to keep doing it until we get some real players in Piston uniforms. We cannot just accept every player management keeps trying to get us to form a bond with. The Eastern Conference is extremely weak. Even if the Pistons make the playoffs by default, who will want to watch them play? Who will show up for the games at home next season if they still have memories of last season and the season before? It is only natural to get excited a bit when training camp is close. There is a small chance that the team will play harder and some of us long time fans will see signs of improvement. But right now it is all guess work. The Pistons still might not make the playoffs with this roster. They might repeat their tendency to fade when the going gets tough. Nobody knows for sure. So far WTF the highest paid Piston players have not met your standards to do the right thing on the hardwood with outstanding effort.

[WTF]

My out burst seem to have quiet the board or things are just that slow there's no need to post anything.  Look I'm not going to apologize for it because I'm not sorry for venting my thoughts on a non basketball related issue.  I didn't do it to get responses in fact I said just pay it no attention because I wasn't looking to debate what said.

No one here knows me personally you know I enjoy sports, you know I'm passionate about this team in one way or another.  I may have mention a hand full of things about me personally and my post my offer a small window of what type of person I might be.   So again I don't apologize for my comment but I am very sorry if some took offense to it.

I will tell you this that there's not much separating how I view sports and other life issues, they're connect on various levels.  Change isn't always progress so I rile against certain aspect of sports in the manner I rile against certain changes especially societal changes in the way we think and process behavior. I get roasted at times for this but it use to be a simple set of rules that applied to every even sports.  The rule was simple 1. Do the right thing 2. Give your best effort.

[Sparma]

Thanks for posting that, Oracle.  Interesting stuff. Let's not forget that PG we picked up, what's his name.  Game changer.

From here: Blake Griffin could and should be an MVP candidate next season

[Sponsored content]