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Casey

Post  Murph on Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:08 pm

Over the next 3 years under Casey, with this roster, I would be satisfied with one 50 win season, 3 trips to the playoffs, and 1 trip to the second round.

I realize that’s a pretty low bar, but under the circumstances, I think that’s all we can hope for. Anything more will be a bonus, IMO.

In the meantime, we can work through bad contracts, hopefully clear some cap space, maybe acquire a high first round pick, draft well, and try to develop our young players and draft picks, so that we can eventually move forward as a real contender.
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No team in the NBA can win a championship without securing high draft picks or getting lucky with first round picks

Post  cool breeze on Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:57 am

Making any sense of Tom Gores decisions is impossible. The Pistons are softer and more dysfunctional today roster wise than they were last fall. I also believe the team is less athletic than the team that started the regular season last fall. As ESPN recently pointed out, the Clippers got the best of the trade Mr. Gores himself orchestrated. Tobias Harris is projected to become a young outstanding player. The NBA has some incredible guards on almost every team with the exception of the Pistons. Banking on Reggie Jackson who is a huge liability on defense to be competitive with those proven star guards offensively is ridiculous. Meanwhile the Pistons are in a pinch financially because of incompetence by Piston management over paying players who were not even in their previous team's rotation. You can't make this stuff up with how badly the planning has been by this owner.

Everyone who is worth their salt as a GM knows that if you have an average or below average team like the Pistons you need to shed salaries and get on a new plan for success instead of marching out the same players who keep on losing not because of good or bad coaching but because the opposing players who play our players are just better players who play harder than our players. You never win anything when there is any talk about lack of basic effort. We all know that we have players on this team who make big money and have played in a lot of games where the Pistons lost who have been accused of lack of engagement or lack of interest in playing the right way. why should any self respecting Piston fan watch this team? There is zero chance the Pistons can win a championship. This team is built to compete for the 8th playoff spot. Can they do it? Are you excited? Instead of selling of any tradable player to reduce salary to secure first round draft picks, this owner is trying to sell fans on snake oil. Maybe he has been reading books on PT Barum who was famous for saying there is a sucker born every minute.

The truth comes out tonight where our Pistons are left once again without any first round draft pick. We need the number one overall pick but we get nothing because on a whim, this owner threw in our number one pick in the Blake Griffin trade that will go down in history as the dumbest Piston trade of all time even worse than the Iverson-Billups trade.

In all fairness to Brandon Knight who did have the spirit of a winner, he had to play with Greg Monroe and Jason Maxiell. There were no mentors for this young kid when he arrived in the draft. No point guard could have success on that team he played on in Detroit. Yet he became a really good defender and always gave a fantastic effort which is something that has been a real question mark for some of our current players like Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond. I never saw Knight take a play off like our two knucklehead pets of Tom Gores. I predict the same story this coming season. The Pistons will start out really good winning games and looking competitive. Then by December the wheels will come off again like always when our players lose interest and begin faking it big time. The reaching will be prevalent on defense by RJ and AD. They will look baffled often when opposing teams get easy layups. Tom Gores banks on Piston fans having short memories. I just wish he would lose interest and sell the team to a smarter and a more hands off owner. This Piston roster has big issues and the worst issue is lack of basketball IQ and commitment relating to physical conditioning and basic work ethic. Nobody will be talking about the Pistons tonight except angry Piston fans.

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Are You Okay With 46 Wins?

Post  WTF on Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:11 am

Sparma wrote:The main point I'm making is that the "winning now" idea was left unspecified, and that none of us know quite what was meant.  It wouldn't be that hard to specify something like: we're ready to replicate what we've been doing in Toronto the past few years, or even we plan to approximate what Toronto did last year.  In that way, it's an artful phrase in that it sounds grand, without making specific commitments (beyond the mathematical).

If I had to guess, I'd think that the Detroit management would think winning in the 46-55 range with some playoff success, would be a good accomplishment, in accord with my standard.  Heck, 54-28 would put him in coach of the year contention, as well as being the best record in a decade plus.

I don't know about Casey's private assessments (we did get an initial glimpse of misgivings by Brenda Casey's), although we've already seen an example where I doubt the public and private entirely coincide, when he said SVG did an excellent job.  That said, I do think he believes the team can win now.  But if he means what you want him to mean, then I'd begin to become skeptical.

That said,  I tend not to take what coaches say at face value, let alone regard them as the best guides as to what to expect.  Yes, news flash, there's are PR and psychological components to their job.  Coaches often knowingly overstate or understate (eg college football coaches facing a minnow) their team's prospects.  I apply a hermeneutic of suspicion when it comes to front office/ coaching (and team representatives like Keith Langlois's) pronouncements.  I'm inclined to take Vegas prognostications as a more reliable guide to realistic expectations.  I expect them to line up with my expectations rather than yours.  But I don't expect them to contradict the  vague: we can win now.  


WTF wrote:
Sparma wrote:Mathematically, winning now begins at 42-40.  I don't have a clear sense of what level of winning Casey's referring to.  Do you, Wise?  42? 55? 59? Playoff success?

In any case, I'm trying to fix what I see as realistic standards of achievements.  If Casey disagreed, that would be significant, but bear in mind is that part of his job is to promote the team and psych up the players.  Coming to a team that had won one game, Lombardi insisted on expect to win at once; evidently, private he conveyed to friends thinking that 4 wins would be a good achievement (GB went 7-5 in Lombardi's first year).

WTF wrote:Casey say's the team can win now so why are you all thinking it's to great of an expectation when I say 55 wins should be the standard here and nothing less than that.   

Those of you that supporting Casey needs to follow suit I think, at least this the first thing I agree with Casey on.  WIN NOW!!!!!

From what I got from his comments is he's talking about seriously contending and not simply just making the playoffs.  Not really hard to read between the lines that the expectation is to win now.   He's certainly not talking about 42 wins and a playoff berth if so then he's already the wrong hire IMO.  If this is a snow job in the summer then he's definitely not the right hire.  promote the team and psych up the players I've could have sworn his job was to coach a winner and not lie about having one.  

So you're saying that perhaps Casey is lying and privately he thinks the team is screwed then who wants a liar as a coach.  It can't be both ways either he is the right coach or he's the wrong coach and many of you seem to think he was the right choice and touted all his accomplishment as being such so why come up with disclaimers.   

Maybe Casey should try out for a spot with dance team instead of coaching

46 wins are you okay with this over the next 2 or 3 seasons?   Should Gore and Casey be?   Is this Next Level stuff?  I don't think my expectation are too high or unrealistic so I'm hoping Casey means what I think he means.  Seems you want a specific numbers from Casey but I'm going to hold him to the term of win now.   Does winning now consist of second place or third place, does win now means 8th seed?    Are we now calling losers winners and that's okay?   

If Casey not man enough to say what he means then he again is the wrong guy.
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Bust, Disappointment, Underachiever, Plan Crappy, Over Hyped, Under Coached

Post  WTF on Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:59 am

Knight wasn't a bust or disappointment he like many were under developed players with potential to be great.   Factor in things like injuries and what you get is players like Knight.   Another thing to look at is the system a players put in and the question of fit factors into this as well.   

Truth is I would rather have a healthy Knight than a healthy Reggie at this moment.  IMO a healthy Knight can still be coached up but Reggie seems to be a enigma that's likely to never change.  

One could look at KCP as a bust to a degree I thought he underachieve greatly from misuse yet he had the potential to a D-Wade type player.  In the end he doesn't reach that potential under some questionable coaching here and allowed to walk away.  Not a bust just poorly coached and that's with most players today even AD to a point if he never reaches his full potential as a player. 

Hardly fair to snatch a under fundamentally equipped player one year out of college and place high expectation on them in the first place.  Sadly everyone keep wanting the one and done sensational player every time one gets drafted. This makes it easy to say bust,  even easier with a certain level of bias because they weren't necessarily your choice of favorite to begin with.  

IMO Knight was always over hyped and overly under coach.
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Win Now

Post  Sparma on Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:36 am

The main point I'm making is that the "winning now" idea was left unspecified, and that none of us know quite what was meant. It wouldn't be that hard to specify something like: we're ready to replicate what we've been doing in Toronto the past few years, or even we plan to approximate what Toronto did last year. In that way, it's an artful phrase in that it sounds grand, without making specific commitments (beyond the mathematical).

If I had to guess, I'd think that the Detroit management would think winning in the 46-55 range with some playoff success, would be a good accomplishment, in accord with my standard. Heck, 54-28 would put him in coach of the year contention, as well as being the best record in a decade plus.

I don't know about Casey's private assessments (we did get an initial glimpse of misgivings by Brenda Casey's), although we've already seen an example where I doubt the public and private entirely coincide, when he said SVG did an excellent job. That said, I do think he believes the team can win now. But if he means what you want him to mean, then I'd begin to become skeptical.

That said, I tend not to take what coaches say at face value, let alone regard them as the best guides as to what to expect. Yes, news flash, there's are PR and psychological components to their job. Coaches often knowingly overstate or understate (eg college football coaches facing a minnow) their team's prospects. I apply a hermeneutic of suspicion when it comes to front office/ coaching (and team representatives like Keith Langlois's) pronouncements. I'm inclined to take Vegas prognostications as a more reliable guide to realistic expectations. I expect them to line up with my expectations rather than yours. But I don't expect them to contradict the vague: we can win now.


WTF wrote:
Sparma wrote:Mathematically, winning now begins at 42-40.  I don't have a clear sense of what level of winning Casey's referring to.  Do you, Wise?  42? 55? 59? Playoff success?

In any case, I'm trying to fix what I see as realistic standards of achievements.  If Casey disagreed, that would be significant, but bear in mind is that part of his job is to promote the team and psych up the players.  Coming to a team that had won one game, Lombardi insisted on expect to win at once; evidently, private he conveyed to friends thinking that 4 wins would be a good achievement (GB went 7-5 in Lombardi's first year).

WTF wrote:Casey say's the team can win now so why are you all thinking it's to great of an expectation when I say 55 wins should be the standard here and nothing less than that.   

Those of you that supporting Casey needs to follow suit I think, at least this the first thing I agree with Casey on.  WIN NOW!!!!!

From what I got from his comments is he's talking about seriously contending and not simply just making the playoffs.  Not really hard to read between the lines that the expectation is to win now.   He's certainly not talking about 42 wins and a playoff berth if so then he's already the wrong hire IMO.  If this is a snow job in the summer then he's definitely not the right hire.  promote the team and psych up the players I've could have sworn his job was to coach a winner and not lie about having one.  

So you're saying that perhaps Casey is lying and privately he thinks the team is screwed then who wants a liar as a coach.  It can't be both ways either he is the right coach or he's the wrong coach and many of you seem to think he was the right choice and touted all his accomplishment as being such so why come up with disclaimers.   

Maybe Casey should try out for a spot with dance team instead of coaching
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A Bust by Any Other Name....

Post  Murph on Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:16 am

Maybe bust is the wrong word. I’ll substitute “disappointment” for bust.


Oracle wrote:The term BUST was usually applied to guys drafted somewhere around 1-3 that utterly failed to live up to expectations. Draft order is based on perception, especially when you get past 5, it's a crap shoot.

The reason I thought about this is that you both called Knight a bust, and if he's a bust, then I'm not sure what definition you guys are using.

Could either or both of you give me some of the reasons someone, especially Knight would be considered a bust?
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promote the team and psych up the players

Post  WTF on Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:59 am

Sparma wrote:Mathematically, winning now begins at 42-40.  I don't have a clear sense of what level of winning Casey's referring to.  Do you, Wise?  42? 55? 59? Playoff success?

In any case, I'm trying to fix what I see as realistic standards of achievements.  If Casey disagreed, that would be significant, but bear in mind is that part of his job is to promote the team and psych up the players.  Coming to a team that had won one game, Lombardi insisted on expect to win at once; evidently, private he conveyed to friends thinking that 4 wins would be a good achievement (GB went 7-5 in Lombardi's first year).

WTF wrote:Casey say's the team can win now so why are you all thinking it's to great of an expectation when I say 55 wins should be the standard here and nothing less than that.   

Those of you that supporting Casey needs to follow suit I think, at least this the first thing I agree with Casey on.  WIN NOW!!!!!

From what I got from his comments is he's talking about seriously contending and not simply just making the playoffs.  Not really hard to read between the lines that the expectation is to win now.   He's certainly not talking about 42 wins and a playoff berth if so then he's already the wrong hire IMO.  If this is a snow job in the summer then he's definitely not the right hire.  promote the team and psych up the players I've could have sworn his job was to coach a winner and not lie about having one.  

So you're saying that perhaps Casey is lying and privately he thinks the team is screwed then who wants a liar as a coach.  It can't be both ways either he is the right coach or he's the wrong coach and many of you seem to think he was the right choice and touted all his accomplishment as being such so why come up with disclaimers.   

Maybe Casey should try out for a spot with dance team instead of coaching
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Stefanski on the Roster

Post  Oracle on Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:17 am

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Come On Murph

Post  WTF on Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:09 am

Murph wrote:Wise...the math doesn't work on unlimited illegal immigration.  So we should catch and release, or not even bother to catch all the illegal immigrants who flood in from Mexico and Guatemala.  What about Honduras, El Salvador and Nicaragua?  Those are poor countries also.  Should we let all the illegals from those countries flood in also?  And then there's Belize, Costa Rica and Panama.  What about Ecuador, Colombia and Venezuela, and Cuba, Haiti and the Dominican Republic?

And how many should we let in?  The last estimate was that 12 million illegal immigrants currently reside in this country, but I'm guessing that figure by now is really 15 - 25 million.  Should we let in another 10 million?  50 million? 100 million?  

And most states give free public education to immigrants, regardless of their legal status.  And of course they receive free healthcare.  No emergency room at any hospital turns anyone away, regardless of their legal status.  And many states allow illegals to receive welfare, food stamps, public housing, and free enrollment in state colleges.

As a nation, we are already $21 trillion in debt, and running an annual deficit of roughly another $750,000 billion a year.  And we still have plenty of our own problems, such as an opioid crisis, absurdly high inner city crime rates, police departments that need more personnel and better training, and miserable roads, bridges, public school buildings and airports.  Shouldn't we fix our own problems, before we open our borders to all of Central and South America?

I am all for cutting spending on many things, such as the space program and the military.  But even if we do that, total spending is going to skyrocket in the near future, because of rising entitlement spending on SS benefits and Medicare and Medicaid benefits as our legal population ages, and that doesn't even take into account more illegals.

And the thing is, no laws have even been changed.  Trump is only trying to enforce the existing laws on the books.  And Democrats are certainly disinterested in helping in any way.  They apparently want as many illegal immigrants in this country as possible.  The Dems are even going to oppose in court an executive order that Trump signed today to keep children with their families in detention centers at the border, because the Dems don't want anyone detained.  What Dem said don't detain them?  I'll wait


We need to build a wall, and fast.  Walls work.  Israel is an excellent example of a country with an effective border wall and border security.

Murph all I'm saying is there's humane way to doing even the harshest of deeds, this isn't it period.  No one is saying don't address the border issues not even the Dems so that's a falsehood.  No one wants illegals running around freely 

SS benefit are an investment into retirement it is not an entitlement when it's being deducted from your paycheck.  Maybe we shouldn't pay into that **** at all. Yeah I guess they're entitled to give me my **** back.   IJS  

You're close to retirement age don't you want your money back you spent your entire life paying into?  

Also as for the math take out the equation of Greed and Self Interest, while reducing all the dumb spending and the monies likely there.
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I take that back

Post  Sparma on Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:48 pm

The draft IS a crapshoot, when "crapshoot" is defined as "something (such as a business venture) that has an unpredictable outcome." I failed to adhere to that definition while making my remark regarding probabilities. Of course, taken in that loose sense pretty much everything is a crapshoot, e.g., "Getting out of bed is a crapshoot." Maybe I should try to learn the game so as to have a better sense of what's meant.

Sparma wrote:I wrote a lengthy response venturing a productivity/ expectations per draft slot quotient that got lost in the ether before posting that I'm too lazy to re-compose.

I did want to record my disagreement with the notion that the draft is a "crap shoot", especially post #5.  The 2010 "Free Dark Presents..." conveys the productivity of players chosen through draft history at particular slots.  There's plenty of uncertainty, but also sufficient patterns to suggest the probability of higher productivity at higher slots.  On the whole, it's preferable to pick #6-10 over #11-15, etc.

Oracle wrote:The term BUST was usually applied to guys drafted somewhere around 1-3 that utterly failed to live up to expectations. Draft order is based on perception, especially when you get past 5, it's a crap shoot.

The reason I thought about this is that you both called Knight a bust, and if he's a bust, then I'm not sure what definition you guys are using.

Could either or both of you give me some of the reasons someone, especially Knight would be considered a bust?
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Impressions

Post  BallinD on Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:20 pm

The Presser again showed me the childlike and loyal approach of Gores, not wanting to rock the boat yet, criticize SVG,or lay out a blueprint.  No plan, other than to say "In Casey we trust," even as the attendance continues to wane and the team continues to miss playoff seeding -- even with Blake Griffin -- to fade into irrelevance in today's NBA.

This year promises to be the most promising, possibly since the waning heydays of the Going To Work crew before the abominable Chauncey trade

Stefanski appears to be very very confident, aggressive and a sharp guy.  I hope he can whip the scouting staff into shape.  He also mentioned he is not averse to trying to move up in the draft...and this draft-centric emphasis is a breath of fresh air for our Pistons. So far, so good. Can he dump Leuer and Galloway for a piece, or a Pick? Atlanta, anybody? I hear they are shopping everybody, including one of their 4 picks.

Casey seems confident, affable and eager to get to work and try and win, while cementing his coaching legacy.  Player development and his eagerness to adopt a modern scheme is also promising.  Interesting that Tellem was also quoted elsewhere as favoring youth development and innovation.  I like it.  We shall see what Malik Rose can do, and he does come with time in the Spurs System.  Is Brent Barry also lurking in the wings?  Tayshaun?

 
Sparma wrote:Agreed.  I seem to be more skeptical than others about Isiah's odds of success at GM, or Laimbeer's as NBA coach, but be that as it may, I agree that they, or others, would be worthy additions as consultants.  Gores does seem to have taken some distance from past Piston greats, which is a shame.   I agree with your assessment and share your regrets.  I wished somebody in the presser woulda asked him about that, but I guess this sentiment is not widespread.

BallinD wrote:Since we're in the middle of a Pistons reset right now, why not get a "Legends" type consultant in here to the FO?  The Warriors got Steve Nash, the Clippers got Jerry West.  They are consultants, another mind in the room, not necessarily an employee.  Get a great basketball mind to join the braintrust.  Laimbeer?  Billups? KG? Caron Butler? Kenny Smith? Sheed? C-Webb? Just a few ideas of players who have good basketball minds and a former affiliation with the Stones.
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Consultant/ BallinD

Post  Sparma on Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:41 pm

Agreed. I seem to be more skeptical than others about Isiah's odds of success at GM, or Laimbeer's as NBA coach, but be that as it may, I agree that they, or others, would be worthy additions as consultants. Gores does seem to have taken some distance from past Piston greats, which is a shame.

BallinD wrote:Since we're in the middle of a Pistons reset right now, why not get a "Legends" type consultant in here to the FO?  The Warriors got Steve Nash, the Clippers got Jerry West.  They are consultants, another mind in the room, not necessarily an employee.  Get a great basketball mind to join the braintrust.  Laimbeer?  Billups? KG? Caron Butler? Kenny Smith? Sheed? C-Webb? Just a few ideas of players who have good basketball minds and a former affiliation with the Stones.
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Crap shoot

Post  Sparma on Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:37 pm

I wrote a lengthy response venturing a productivity/ expectations per draft slot quotient that got lost in the ether before posting that I'm too lazy to re-compose.

I did want to record my disagreement with the notion that the draft is a "crap shoot", especially post #5. The 2010 "Free Dark Presents..." conveys the productivity of players chosen through draft history at particular slots. There's plenty of uncertainty, but also sufficient patterns to suggest the probability of higher productivity at higher slots. On the whole, it's preferable to pick #6-10 over #11-15, etc.

Oracle wrote:The term BUST was usually applied to guys drafted somewhere around 1-3 that utterly failed to live up to expectations. Draft order is based on perception, especially when you get past 5, it's a crap shoot.

The reason I thought about this is that you both called Knight a bust, and if he's a bust, then I'm not sure what definition you guys are using.

Could either or both of you give me some of the reasons someone, especially Knight would be considered a bust?
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Expectations & Casey

Post  Sparma on Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:41 pm

Mathematically, winning now begins at 42-40. I don't have a clear sense of what level of winning Casey's referring to. Do you, Wise? 42? 55? 59? Playoff success?

In any case, I'm trying to fix what I see as realistic standards of achievements. If Casey disagreed, that would be significant, but bear in mind is that part of his job is to promote the team and psych up the players. Coming to a team that had won one game, Lombardi insisted on expect to win at once; evidently, private he conveyed to friends thinking that 4 wins would be a good achievement (GB went 7-5 in Lombardi's first year).

WTF wrote:Casey say's the team can win now so why are you all thinking it's to great of an expectation when I say 55 wins should be the standard here and nothing less than that.   

Those of you that supporting Casey needs to follow suit I think, at least this the first thing I agree with Casey on.  WIN NOW!!!!!
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Immigration

Post  Murph on Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:10 pm

Wise...the math doesn't work on unlimited illegal immigration.  So we should catch and release, or not even bother to catch all the illegal immigrants who flood in from Mexico and Guatemala.  What about Honduras, El Salvador and Nicaragua?  Those are poor countries also.  Should we let all the illegals from those countries flood in also?  And then there's Belize, Costa Rica and Panama.  What about Ecuador, Colombia and Venezuela, and Cuba, Haiti and the Dominican Republic?

And how many should we let in?  The last estimate was that 12 million illegal immigrants currently reside in this country, but I'm guessing that figure by now is really 15 - 25 million.  Should we let in another 10 million?  50 million? 100 million?  

And most states give free public education to immigrants, regardless of their legal status.  And of course they receive free healthcare.  No emergency room at any hospital turns anyone away, regardless of their legal status.  And many states allow illegals to receive welfare, food stamps, public housing, and free enrollment in state colleges.

As a nation, we are already $21 trillion in debt, and running an annual deficit of roughly another $750,000 billion a year.  And we still have plenty of our own problems, such as an opioid crisis, absurdly high inner city crime rates, police departments that need more personnel and better training, and miserable roads, bridges, public school buildings and airports.  Shouldn't we fix our own problems, before we open our borders to all of Central and South America?

I am all for cutting spending on many things, such as the space program and the military.  But even if we do that, total spending is going to skyrocket in the near future, because of rising entitlement spending on SS benefits and Medicare and Medicaid benefits as our legal population ages, and that doesn't even take into account more illegals.

And the thing is, no laws have even been changed.  Trump is only trying to enforce the existing laws on the books.  And Democrats are certainly disinterested in helping in any way.  They apparently want as many illegal immigrants in this country as possible.  The Dems are even going to oppose in court an executive order that Trump signed today to keep children with their families in detention centers at the border, because the Dems don't want anyone detained.


We need to build a wall, and fast.  Walls work.  Israel is an excellent example of a country with an effective border wall and border security.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:52 pm

Oracle wrote:

I have to give Oracle number 1 ranking this week with the no reason is the best reason posting on the girl showing off her ass while adjusting the red dress. Why not do this when your team's owner gets out smarted in that Clippers trade. Tom's brain trust showed they have no brains as we fans might as well skip the upcoming draft night. I watched the experts last night on ESPN talk about how well the Clippers did in that trade ridding the team of that $35 Mil salary while getting what they said was an upcoming NBA star in Tobias Harris. We have the damaged older often injured player with a long contract who makes the same money as Labron James. How exciting it is for us now especially with the new coach all signed up and eager to take our Pistons to the finals with none other than Reggie Jackson our defensive ace. Things are really great in Piston land. We have to hope that the coaches wife likes the Detroit area. Otherwise Casey might quit once he starts coaching his team in the new empty arena.

Next season our highly paid players will make the playoffs by default as many teams might be in the rebuild mode. Then within 2 or 3 years those rebuilding teams will have the young high draft picks kicking our players asses. More pictures please Mr. Oracle or I might turn to a shot of Jack Daniels like the character Benny who tried to drown his sadness when his girl friend gave him the crabs in the movie "Bring Me The Head of Alfredo Garcia".

I see there has been a discussion on the border issues. I live in a border area. What amazes me is the impact of the media where they sell folks on lies and can create a new victims group each week and get everyone excited and offended that our government leaders are so cruel. CSPAN had a panel of experts determine that the 2016 illegal immigration costs American tax payers was around 111 billion after taxes those illegals contributed.What could poor American citizens or young kids do with that money to pay for their education if given the opportunity. The drug cartels get $3,000 to $8,000 per head for crossers to accompany the coyotes who sneak them across the border and then of course house them in dirty horrible conditions while they make their way North to work as slaves in factories, hotels, and other hard labor farming jobs for next to nothing. The hospitals are bankrupt or near bankrupt in all border cities as the illegals come across the border suffering from horrific medical conditions. They get transplants and other expensive medical care that middle class people cannot afford for free. But we cannot tolerate separating parents from their children when caught committing the crime of illegally entering our country. Authorities need to screen the so called parents who are often not parents at all and are human traffic criminals. Last week the border patrol caught 6 people at night when a television reporter was allowed to go out with border patrol agents here. Five out of six of the middle aged men who were caught that night were repeat criminal offenders in the drug business who had been through the American criminal court system and sent back to Mexico. Maybe those kids are very happy to be separated from their so called parents. Who would ever risk the lives of our kids to attempt an illegal crossing given the risks relating to the high temperatures, snakes and lack of water etc. The details are important and it is amazing how gullible people who watch the bogus news reporting can be. What could our country do with $111 billion dollars that the illegals cost tax payers relating to the impact on our schools, health care, law enforcement and the legal costs. The time as come to pressure Mexico to end the flow of illegals into our country. We should have cut off all foreign aid and charged high import fees for all vehicles that are manufactured in Mexico instead of the State of Michigan and other states now. Big business owners pay off the political whores who we call representatives in Washington from both political parties to promote an open borders and obstruct any change in immigration policy. The average citizen especially the poor American citizens suffer the most from our politicians turning a blind eye to this amazing problem. Who in their right mind would want open borders except for those big business owners who have created this mess? The problem is people just follow along with their political party of choice's line and never explore the actual details. They don't know that they don't know as Mark Scott used to say on his radio show. Yet they have an opinion based on watching the television news which never tells the real story.

News flash all minority folks. Under President Trump African American employment and wages have reached historic high levels. The tax law actually really helps all middle class citizens of all races but yet the social media says Trump is a racist. Do you really believe that nonsense? North Korea might decide to scrap their nukes. Some who hate trump were hoping for a war instead of peace. The stock market hasn't collapsed as my brother predicted ( he lives in California where fake news thrives). Criminal violent gangs like MS 13 are being dealt with more seriously. And surprise surprise this President wants to at least do something to stop the illegal flow of criminals who do not go through proper channels to enter our country and especially chain migration. The media will call him cruel because he is trying to do the right thing for all American citizens not those who want to come to America illegally or the American business leaders who employ them instead of giving American citizens a fair wage. But the media creates the throbbing heart stories. They could find those same stories involving American families who are victims of crime. If people buy into the main stream media's goal of creating a lot of victims groups then the revolution can take place. Be careful what you wish for. Racism was once a big problem but that time as passed long ago. I see people of all races are getting along well here and treat each other as individuals with respect and then I come home and watch the news which offers another story about racism, or how the transgenders are mis treated, or new sexual abuse allegations etc. What are we doing as individuals to make things better? How about being kind and teaching our children to be kind instead of telling them how badly this country sucks along with most of the people who live in it who do not look exactly like you. This immigration issue will not be resolved because rich people who control the media want more people to cross the border to secure cheap labor so their profit margins get bigger. Watch the Discovery Channel series on how the Mexican government works hand in hand with the drug cartels to make this all happen for those who want those workers from Mexico who take jobs away from unemployed Americans.

Piston fans need some good news. That won't happen on draft night. Why did you do it Mr. Gores? How could you destroy the Detroit Pistons so badly?


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Sometimes

Post  WTF on Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:49 pm

Oracle wrote:

I wish I was a thong
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Excuse Me but....

Post  WTF on Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:47 pm

Casey say's the team can win now so why are you all thinking it's to great of an expectation when I say 55 wins should be the standard here and nothing less than that.   

Those of you that supporting Casey needs to follow suit I think, at least this the first thing I agree with Casey on.  WIN NOW!!!!!
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We're Not but....

Post  WTF on Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:17 pm

Murph wrote:Wise...as US taxpayers, why are we morally responsible for feeding, housing, educating and providing healthcare to every Guatemalan family that hikes into Texas illegally?


I'm talking about human decency and how this should be handle period.   Love and compassion over all else even taxpayer dollars and like I said the Moral Compass is all jacked up.   BTW our taxpaying dollars are also paying for this mess as well but still there has to be a more compassionate way of handling this matter.   

Murph at the end of the day without Love and Compassion we're nothing and setting the world up for failure.   Also our US dollars get spent on a bunch of dumb **** and people don't blink about it.  But when it comes to doing the right thing we're up in arms about it that doesn't make any sense no matter how it gets dressed up.   If we just seriously stop to think about this and what is right and wrong how could anyone think this **** is okay.

In a broader sense we're all responsible for each other and we need to start think that way and when it comes always back to $$$$$ this only proves how evil and divisive it makes us.   It certainly make us rule out Love and Compassion in our thinking,  I know in all my heart that things don't have to be the way they are, not with just this **** but a bunch of **** that ails this world period.  

If a country truly want to be the world leader, and a super power then it needs to do it with love and compassion and don't mean hugs and kisses because the wrong thing can be done for the right reasons.  Playing politics isn't the right thing at all.
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Busts: Murph & Sparma

Post  Oracle on Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:08 pm

The term BUST was usually applied to guys drafted somewhere around 1-3 that utterly failed to live up to expectations. Draft order is based on perception, especially when you get past 5, it's a crap shoot.

The reason I thought about this is that you both called Knight a bust, and if he's a bust, then I'm not sure what definition you guys are using.

Could either or both of you give me some of the reasons someone, especially Knight would be considered a bust?
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Pistons Reset

Post  BallinD on Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:20 pm

Since we're in the middle of a Pistons reset right now, why not get a "Legends" type consultant in here to the FO?  The Warriors got Steve Nash, the Clippers got Jerry West.  They are consultants, another mind in the room, not necessarily an employee.  Get a great basketball mind to join the braintrust.  Laimbeer?  Billups? KG? Caron Butler? Kenny Smith? Sheed? C-Webb? Just a few ideas of players who have good basketball minds and a former affiliation with the Stones.
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Brandon Knight as the Pistons's third biggest draft miss ever

Post  Sparma on Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:28 pm

according to detnews. That ranking surprises me a little, although I do agree he was a bust. No need to remind folks of #1. Fennis Dembo comes in at #8.
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Immigrants...

Post  Oracle on Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:07 pm

There's very little I agree with Trump about, but this situation is one of them, this illegal immigration needs to stop!

However, I draw the line at separating mothers from their children, that's not American, hell, it's not even human.

I also don't believe in walls, well, at least I don't if I have to pay for them.

If Mexico pays for the wall, then I'll feel fine, but if they're not going to pay for it... Donald, shut the f**k up.
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Re: FORUM

Post  Murph on Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:52 am

Wise...as US taxpayers, why are we morally responsible for feeding, housing, educating and providing healthcare to every Guatemalan family that hikes into Texas illegally?

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Re: FORUM

Post  WTF on Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:46 am

Murph wrote:Build a wall...problem solved.


WTF wrote:This is sad and I was trying not to say anything on here but I need to vent about this non basketball issue.  There has to be a better solution at the border than what's going on now.  Seriously kids in cages  facepalm  seriously separating kids from parents.  If you believe in hell there's a place waiting for those that accepts and support this action.   


I'm all for protecting borders, but only in a humane compassionate fashion and those that claim this ass as their president should be a shame of this because it's evil.  These are people human beings and if you don't believe in hell than please know that Karma is a bitch and it's very real.  You see while you're sitting here supporting this crap and thinking this clown president is funny just know that in a blink of an eye some unannounced circumstance could rear it's ugly head deliver tragedy in that exact moment you decide to cheer this dumb **** on.   

Maybe you find yourself asking God why me,  why us in that same moment the answer is Karma!!!! Reaping what you sow!!!!   This compass got to get fixed fast,  the hatred, the lies, the greed, need to end or we are doomed sooner than most think
Get new president  tb
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Re: FORUM

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