Injury Report?

[Murph]

When are Griffin and Jackson going to play? I realize with their injury history, I'm grasping at straws here. But if we have to go into the season starting Ellenson at PF, and whomever at PG, we're going to be bad....really bad.

Oracle...that was one ugly article. And it was even worse because it has a ring of truth to it. Whoever concocted the Griffin trade, whether it was SVG or Gores, may very well have crippled this franchise for years.

[Oracle]

Blake Griffin Is Injured Again, and the Pistons Are Irrelevant

[cool breeze]

As I cannot get any information at all from NBA TV on the Pistons so far I have been watching some of the other teams play. Alonzo Trier who the Pistons snubbed with their two 2nd round picks is doing as I expected so far with the Knicks scoring in the mid 20s as well as showing off rebounding and making making skills. He also is blocking shots too. The Piston brain trust did not target scorers in this past draft. they had two picks yet didn't diversify drafting two similar type players who play stronger defense which I like. Yet to me it was a no brainer to use one of the picks on Trier who played both guard positions in college and was to me the key player on his team which included Ayton. Opposing teams for two seasons always said that their number one goal was to devise a defense to stop Trier. They seldom could do it for an entire game. I see that Holiday from UCLA is playing for Indiana. Another point guard the pistons couldn't get because of the Griffin trade. Did Tom Gores actually have to give up his number one pick to get Griffin? What other offers did the Clippers get once they put Blake on the trading block? I heard there were none because of his enormous contract. There will be a lot of pressure on Blake Griffin this season. He better rest in the games that do not count.

Meanwhile it appears that AD is tearing it up now in pre season. Maybe Casey is playing him a lot of minutes now to see what kind of player he really has relating to following the script that Casey has written for his overall role this season. Is AD coachable? At least his effort seems to be there now. But that has never been his problem. AD has brought decent energy right up to mid December in the past. Casey better look at the change that takes place in AD after winter sets in and everyone has tired legs. Maybe this season, AD is more mature and will handle the grind better. I wonder what Casey is thinking when he sees AD making switches on pick and roll plays. Casey needs to recognize that he has to keep things really simple where AD is concerned relating to the defensive rotation system. Perhaps that is where SVG went wrong. Keep the expectations really low and try to hide AD as much as possible and do not allow the big guy to wonder out at the free throw line. Accept a few 3 second penalty free throws instead of allowing layups when AD screws up the works by switching onto guards when his teammate gets through the screen and is positioned perfectly to defend the guard. I know AD hates guarding the center who is rolling to the basket. That takes a lot of effort. And come January, who cares anyway. Please Mr. Casey look at the game film starting in mid December from the past two seasons. Then create your half court defense based on what you see.

With Griffin out Casey cannot see how the team would look with Blake initiating the offense as point forward. If Blake is out for awhile, why not try Kennard as the starter at point guard? What does the coach have to lose? He gains nothing putting Calderon into the starting lineup unless Jose is having a great training camp. Maybe Casey is starting to believe that Calderon is his best overall point guard on the team and will need to count on his ability to overcome the aging process. I am all for playing the best players who can distance themselves from their competition. Perhaps that is what Calderon is doing this fall.

I hope Casey plays Ellenson a lot of minutes regardless of the amount of mistakes he might make. If he can get in sync with his shooting stroke, the Pistons will be a much better team in the long run. I hope Henry finds a way to earn big minutes. If not, Johnson might do the job against certain matchups at power forward as many predict.

I have never been as skeptical as I have been entering a new season for the Pistons. One can have no idea what this owner might do next. We might not see the Pistons draft in the first round for another 5 years given the philosophy of the Pistons front office. Who will be the contenders for the championship five seasons from now? It is almost guaranteed that the Pistons won't be on the list. In two seasons we might be talking about another new coach and can the Pistons get that 8th spot in the Eastern conference??? WOW!

[Oracle]

The Pistons won their first game under Casey!!! 



I know Drummond put up big numbers, but the best news out of the game was the play of Stanley & GR3. Both had very good games, and I hope and expect both to keep it up and possibly do a bit better.

We shouldn't make anything out of the win, but damn, I sure prefer that to a loss 

Finally rev up your crystal balls(no pun intended), we're getting close to the prediction deadline. Good luck to all!

[BallinD]

Long way to go from executing a scheme, to executing successful bball plays within a scheme.  Casey got em to throw up 37 threes including 3 from Dre.  He made none.  Hot-take.  He played too many minutes; he shot too many threes and made too few (ZERO).  

Settle down Murph; It's pre-season and Casey is encouraging experimentation, trust, chemistry, "Shot-Spectrum".  We ranked near the bottom of the NBA for shots at the rim and FTs, which the new scheme is designed to remedy. We were middling in 3pt attempts. The whole league is zigging, and so Casey is (Getting Ziggy with it).  

Still, I agree with you that Dre needs to focus on setting screens, block shots rebound, ripping down the rim and hitting his FTs.

But...I think Dre is right to try to zig as paint-bound centers are becoming dinosaurs, and he recognizes the small-ball trend.  He needs to get back on that free-throw bandwagon though.  I still want to see him Finish Through Contact at the rim and cut out the dipsy doodle finesse moves.  Think of this as a long-term chess move and as a potential career-extending move.  He won't shoot that many, I don't think. Think Horford, Gasol, Ayton, Embiid, Kat.

I thought Casey was Stan-Stupid?! (yes that's a thing) for playing him 37 minutes, but his explanation of wanting to see how the team handles road adversity makes a little sense, chemistry-wise (setting a tone, he said) I was not at all impressed with the rest of the team as a whole, but it is early in the scheme change, so there is that.  Go Pistons!  

(BTW, watched the game on my phone using a Thunder-live link)

[Murph]

Yes, Drummond had a monster game with 31 points and 16 rebounds.  But no one is ever going to accuse the guy of being a genius.  I didn't see the game, but I see he shot 14-18 on 2 point field goals.  I assume most of those were dunks and bunnies.  And then I see he shot 0-3 from the 3 point line.  Earth to Drummond....

Meanwhile, while Drummond was spending his summer working on his 3 point shot, I assume he didn't practice much on his foul shooting.  He reverted back to his old form, going 3-10 from the foul line.

Drummond needs to cut out the 3 point crap, and work on his rebounding, shot blocking, defensive footwork and foul shooting. He could be a Hall of Famer if he just focused on the right skills.


In other news, Ellenson continued to suck, but it looks as if Stanley Johnson played well.  With Ellenson stinking up the place, and Leuer and Griffin out, I assume Johnson played many minutes at PF last night.  Maybe SJ is the answer at reserve PF.

[cool breeze]

The Lakers are down 49 to 35 in the 2nd quarter of a meaningless pre season game. I was watching Rondo before that talking to the young kids on the bench. That got me thinking of the past. How many times could the Piston's owner have snagged Rondo? The places Rondo has had problems playing have been teams that had dysfunctional slacking type players who were not all in with the commitment to what it takes in the NBA to WIN. There is a fine line between losers and winners in the NBA. It doesn't make any difference what uniform the winners and leaders play on. They are the studs. And if you are a fan and have been watching your team play for 6 or more years and have yet to watch one player who is a super stud winning type of player or leader play for your team, then aren't you a bit crazy to think that a loser is now about to start becoming a leader and winner? I can see that happening on a high school team. As a Junior maybe you are a follower and play with seniors who are bad apples. You blend in and survive your junior season but pledge to yourself that with your final go around as a high school player you will not settle being on the same type of team that you lost with the year before. I have seen it so many times where kids change into basketball monsters who absolutely hate losing so much that they become the team leaders. College can be the same way too where players who are not rated 5 Star and are expected to leave after one season are usually never the team's leader. The hard nosed guys who stick around for 4 years become the seasoned leader types who guide the younger players on and off the court. But the NBA is different with exceptions of course. Remembering Isiah Thomas in his first season where he tore into his teammates at half time and stepped up to fill the void of leadership is not unusual in NBA history. Even though Bill Russell threw up before almost every pro game he ever played before tip off, Bill was always a team leader by example.

I really hope some of you posters are right about this group of Piston players. But I have never ever seen Andre Drummond display leadership by example. He is a happy go lucky type of person it seems. I have never seen him upset after losing a game. There will aways be another game for some players. Yet some terrific players lay it all on the line every time they put on the uniform. I felt that Rondo and Labron went back into their last pre season game feeling like that. They hate to lose and it always shows. They will pull their teammates through tough situations and help them become better players.

The only player I personally have followed throughout his career and know he has leadership skills is Stanley Johnson. In high school he was the guy who stood out as a supreme leader. He played every position for his high school team. He did whatever was needed to win and really listened and gained knowledge from his coaches. Johnson could care less about stats. He knew nothing counted but winning. Then he arrived in college and was not good enough to be the leader of his college team. Yet I have no doubt that if he had stayed another season that would have happened and Johnson would now be one of those true stud NBA leaders. Since high school, Johnson has not had the role of being a team leader. What is going to happen this season with Johnson? He has blended in and done the dirty work on defense, setting screens and passing the basketball on offense when he got the rare opportunity to actually touch the basketball while playing with Reggie Jackson. I seldom saw that Stanley was in sync on offense in SVG's system and especially when he played with RJ. How many times would Stanley have touched the ball if he had played with Labron over the past two or three seasons? Johnson would have had shots closer to the basket and he would have been moving more without the basketball which he needs to do to be successful. Other players need that too. But with Reggie you stand in place and get rusty. Johnson and other Piston players including KCP have suffered while playing basketball with Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond. They are not leaders nor do they show that they really care about the success of the team they play on. Meanwhile both players can get their share of stats that a lot of Piston fans admire.

I wish that the owner had had the foresight to sign players like Rondo who actually could have been signed to play with the Pistons. Of course there was no chance for the owner to sign Labron or the other top tier players. But the Piston point guard situation has been the weak link for too damn long. It is irritating for the fans to watch dysfunctional one dimentional type point guards who actually refuse to play average starting caliber NBA defense. Reggie Jackson is injury prone and cannot defend any starting point guard in the NBA. Ish Smith cannot defend any starting point guard in the NBA. Those are the facts so why not try Luke Kennard or one of the rookies as the starter. The other option would be to use Blake Griffin as the point forward and eliminate the idea of using Reggie or Ish entirely. They could both fight it out for playing time with the 2nd unit. I thought that there might be a chance that Reggie could play the 2 but he would be too much of a liability on defense with the high scoring type of 2 guards currently playing for opposing teams. When you have two starters in AD and RJ who are inferior defenders, where does that leave you relating to having a chance to WIN? Is this owner serious about winning? Does the owner know what kind of players he needs to obtain before winning can take place?

Fans don't drive in the snow to watch players go though the motions. Fans identify with winning even if the players and the owner are half in and half out and more excited about what happens in pre game like the circle dance. Parents who have kids who are competing in sports do not want their kids to watch players who are "not fully engaged" as SVG used to say after another loss. For those of you who insist that SVG was entirely at fault for the sad sack display of basketball the Pistons have shown for several seasons, you know you cannot be correct. Some of the same players also played for other head coaches with the same result. If the Pistons had the good fortune of drafting Anthony Davis, fans would have filled the arena even if the Pistons had lost. The East might be so weak that the Pistons will make the playoffs. But Piston fans are not idiots. If the team makes the playoffs and plays like they did last season and the season before that, the arena will be less than half full. You are who you are as a player in the NBA. It is difficult to change who you are once you have played in the league for a lengthy period of time. Some of our players have played hard until Christmas and then gradually took their foot off the gas. Thus, the head coach had to tell the press that some of his players were not "fully engaged in playing the game". That is about the worst thing that could be said to most players yet it did not bother some of our players. They repeated the lack of engagement in the very next game and the game after that. History does matter. I hope Casey looks at the old game film to identify the slackers. One guy who did play fully engaged and his name was Anthony Tolliver. The Pistons didn't want to sign him. Many fans are upset with the owner for that.

[Murph]

I think for the next two years, our best hope is for incremental improvements in our record.  

With that in mind, based on a healthy Reggie Jackson and Blake Griffin, and a new improved coach, I'm hoping for between 45-50 wins this season, and 50 or more wins next season.

After that, the cap situation improved significantly.  We will still need to re-sign Drummond.  But the contracts of Jackson, Leuer, Galloway and Josh Smith will all finally expire.  That represent $40 million worth of expiring contracts that come off the books after the 2019-20 season.

Then hopefully we can use that money to resign some of our young players to reasonable contracts, and maybe even add a useful free agent or two.  In the meantime, the Pistons need to draft well and develop their young talent, while improving their record.

[cool breeze]

Piston fans have been spoiled by the two different group of players who actually won a championship. Therefore, most Piston fans do have some optimism when a new season rolls around. Yet this fall I just don't feel that way. Being a realist, I keep remembering that the same group of players who got their butts beat showing off their low basketball IQ's, lack of offensive and defensive skills and inferior killer instinct are coming back. Big expectations are once again on Andre Drummond who will unleash his new weapon (THE # POINT SHOT) that for sure will create more wins. Blake Griffin, the man who is 29 with 59 year old hips, knees, ankles and feet might get lucky and actually finish an entire season with less than 20 now shows. When your best overall player from last year Tolliver signed elsewhere for peanuts, that should signal his evaluation of the Piston roster relating to being a team on the rise. I won't even go into the subject of the point situation. But what puzzles me is why any fan who has watched this group of players who are coming back after stinking it up for two seasons straight can actually buy into the new head coach and his staff can make any impact. The coaches do not play the game. The NBA is a players league. The best players always win even if they have a terrible coach. This Piston team is a fringe team  that has not shown much heart in the past. This owner is selling snake oil.

The Pistons need to keep their current players who are 20 to 25 years old with the exception of Andre Drummond who is the only trade piece who can bring the Pistons a high number one draft pick. Detroit needs to think in terms of 5 years. Keep Stanley Johnson who is only 22 years old and is the best defender on the team and has a winning history before he arrived in Detroit. Luke Kennard is another guy who has promise. I am not sold on either of the number 2 picks in this year's draft but they should both be in the rotation because they are hard nosed kids who defend and have the potential to get better. The other guy I want to see is Henry Ellenson in the rotation for the entire season even if he has really bad games at times. There is no logical reason to play Jon Leuer or any of the old guys. This team is not built to win a series against Indiana let alone any of the top teams in the NBA.

The real crime to me is the bogus trade Tom Gores made all by himself to please his son who loves Blake. What a dream to have Blake play with Andre. WOW! How did that turn out last season? The Pistons gave up Tobias Harris who is a young guy with young legs, hips, and ankles and high character. They also gave up a number one pick in the draft. Facts do matter to me and many fans who have dropped off the Piston radar and given up on the team altogether. Why did the Pistons sign a 38 year old point guard and not Buycks who could have fought it out with the two rookies for playing time. That might have been exciting. And why in hell did they let Moreland go. Eric had a big following with Piston fans. He Busted his butt every night. If SVG had returned, there would be no doubt that Moreland would be back. So I am not so hot on Casey or this Piston front office. Did Casey watch any of last season's game tapes? Maybe the front office made that decision and the one on not signing Tolliver. But some of us don't have short memories. This owner still has no plan to win a championship. That is why he is still selling the snake oil. Maybe the ownership group has encouraged Andre Drummond to shoot the 3 ball. Good luck new coaching staff. You will need it and expect this owner to turn on you real quick around January when the regulars start slacking again. I am wondering if AD will be the guy who might come up with a injury this season. He can rest and then get his mojo going to secure that next contract.

This group of players need to earn the respect of the fans who have been loyal to them even though we have witnessed a lot of lack of interest from them in the past. The fall is here and is always an exciting time of year knowing basketball is right around the corner and football is providing a lot of excitement. I think the fans in Indiana have more going for them then we do.

[Sparma]

Good one, BallinD, when you say: "Yeah Sparma Casey is a refreshing change from Old Yeller, who’s motto was “I’m not happy till you’re not happy.”

Poor Stan. I've heard him interviewed by Dan LeBatard, and he comes across as funny, responsive, and charming. He must deliberately turn that stuff off when pursuing his ideal of good coaching. Weird. He's probably better off as a commentator (except at the bank).

His picture comes up under the definition of to "whinge": to "complain persistently and in a peevish or irritating way."

As to wins? I think they pull off the winning season this year. Progress! Is it going anywhere though?

Another wait-n-see game of cat and mouse. Can we be the mouse that roars this year?!
Yeah Sparma Casey is a refreshing change from Old Yeller, who’s motto was “I’m not happy till you’re not happy.”


Agree with both a. & b. Now what about C. Can they win?  Maybe.  At least there’s no more yakkity yak about a big three.  Kinda scary when all hope rests on a guy who will never suit up. Can he lead the Stones through the evolution from a mouse to a cat ready to pounce?  Not excited either.

Sounds like he's got a couple of consistent messages that could really pay off:

a) get the basket or kick it out.  All the way to the basket or corner 3 point shot.  Exactly what Stanley J needs to hear.  Will he hear it?  Remember that he actually had some success from the corner with SVG his first year.  I see him improving but I'm not convinced he'll be a good shooter from distance.  Better though.

b) playing at pace.  Exactly what Reggie J needs to hear.  Will he hear it? No, or only for a short while.  That pounding the air out of the ball style runs too deep in him.  I foresee halfway decent productivity out of him, paving the way to a not too terrible trade out of town.

Also, sounds like he's got a more easy rapport with players than SVG had.  Not too high bar to clear, I suppose.  Drummond seems attuned.

I can't get excited about the longer term future of this team, but maybe, just maybe, Casey gives them a nice boost.

[BallinD]

Another wait-n-see game of cat and mouse. Can we be the mouse that roars this year?!
Yeah Sparma Casey is a refreshing change from Old Yeller, who’s motto was “I’m not happy till you’re not happy.”


Agree with both a. & b. Now what about C. Can they win?  Maybe.  At least there’s no more yakkity yak about a big three.  Kinda scary when all hope rests on a guy who will never suit up. Can he lead the Stones through the evolution from a mouse to a cat ready to pounce?  Not excited either.

Sounds like he's got a couple of consistent messages that could really pay off:

a) get the basket or kick it out.  All the way to the basket or corner 3 point shot.  Exactly what Stanley J needs to hear.  Will he hear it?  Remember that he actually had some success from the corner with SVG his first year.  I see him improving but I'm not convinced he'll be a good shooter from distance.  Better though.

b) playing at pace.  Exactly what Reggie J needs to hear.  Will he hear it? No, or only for a short while.  That pounding the air out of the ball style runs too deep in him.  I foresee halfway decent productivity out of him, paving the way to a not too terrible trade out of town.

Also, sounds like he's got a more easy rapport with players than SVG had.  Not too high bar to clear, I suppose.  Drummond seems attuned.

I can't get excited about the longer term future of this team, but maybe, just maybe, Casey gives them a nice boost.

[Sparma]

Sounds like he's got a couple of consistent messages that could really pay off:

a) get the basket or kick it out. All the way to the basket or corner 3 point shot. Exactly what Stanley J needs to hear. Will he hear it? Remember that he actually had some success from the corner with SVG his first year. I see him improving but I'm not convinced he'll be a good shooter from distance. Better though.

b) playing at pace. Exactly what Reggie J needs to hear. Will he hear it? No, or only for a short while. That pounding the air out of the ball style runs too deep in him. I foresee halfway decent productivity out of him, paving the way to a not too terrible trade out of town.

Also, sounds like he's got a more easy rapport with players than SVG had. Not too high bar to clear, I suppose. Drummond seems attuned.

I can't get excited about the longer term future of this team, but maybe, just maybe, Casey gives them a nice boost.

[cool breeze]

It seems this owner is set on winning quickly without a real plan for the future. Get it done and I don't care how you do it he must say to his management team. Well the owner has to have some type of vision and knowledge relating to how things work when you are a small market team. How many first round picks has this owner given away in deals. One deal was made for financial reasons and the other that I can think of was given away because of inept negotiating tactics. Tom Gores must run this basketball business much like politicians from both parties have done in the past relating to bogus trade deals that have hurt American tax payers. Politicians with no business background were making the deals. For the Pistons it seems this ownership group is cocky and they don't know that they don't know.

Why did the Pistons select Stanley Johnson over Booker when they needed deadly shooters? While everyone knows how much i have supported Johnson he wasn't the best player on his college team the year that he was drafted by the Pistons. Johnson needed to endure the pressure of being the key scorer and play maker as a college player. If he had waited and played another season in college that could have been his role. I think Johnson would agree that he made a mistake but who can pass up the money if teams like the Pistons are willing to pay him? Now may be the time when Johnson is ready to shine in all facets of the NBA game. He has suffered through disappointment and ridicule for sure. What I am wondering is if Johnson does have an incredible season with the Pistons this season, will the team have the financial means to keep him? Tom Gores has not done a good job with the finances. The team is stuck with some really bad contracts.

Why did Piston management select Luke Kennard over Mitchell? I would really like this owner to explain his reasoning for that bogus decision. The Pistons had a gimpy starting point guard who has no defensive skills. The back up is extremely small and presents matchup problems against the superior teams. Mitchell was a no brainer. Instead they picked a shooting guard. I like Luke and wish he could win the starting point guard spot but it is unlikely he will get a shot at that position.

Finally as I look at the back up power forward and center positions for the Pistons I believe the Pistons might be the weakest of any NBA team at those spots. How many minutes can Blake and Andre play? How effective will they be if they play a lot of minutes? Poor planning relating to the Pistons financial situation will bite them in the ass for sure. So this time around let's not blame the coaching staff if things go bad this season. It is time for Tom Gores to address his mistakes and change the culture of the Pistons into a team fans can respect. Getting top draft picks where fans see that they have at least one player who might be the best player in the league at that position would be refreshing. We can't say that now. We have middle of the road players when it comes time to beating good teams. We have the players who cannot match the fury and competence of the top athletes. This is all on the ownership. They thought they knew more than the experts. We can say all we want about SVG's mistakes but the Blake Griffin trade is 100% the fault of the owners. This deal might have been the worst negotiated trade in NBA history. The Clippers were begging other teams to take Blake's contract. The Pistons bid against themselves.

[BallinD]

We don't know Jack about this team yet.  It's all words.  Today Reggie went 5 on 5 and Casey said blah blah blah.  We may need another trade, but we don't know yet.  I don't know if I would trade for JB; probably not.

Casey wants pace and Reggie is slow and easily winded.  SJ is about to breakout?! Again? Blake is finally healthy and wants to be prime Karl Malone with a better shot.  Luke gonna be that secondary ballhandler top shooter.   Bullock and Luke in a shootout; can one of them hit 7 in a game?

Speculation:
GR3 could easily cut for lobs and jump over everybody on backcuts. P&R with Blake, for GR3, Dre, Luke & Weggie.  Team Defense? should be even better, given (hopefully) better health and conditioning.  Dre leading the league in rebounding and blocked shots...and 3pt attempts ( )  SJ hasn't hardly missed a shot in scrimmages?  

This is the first year the Pistons actually have the lineup to potentially play positionless basketball and versatility. The "Many Wing" theory. The Kool Aid is flowing to get us all liquored up for the season.      

Good Koolaid:  5 Gallons of Piston Kool Aid Link

So how will Tom Gores new staff deliver the goods? What can they do to attract the top star players to play for the Pistons? Jimmy Butler has stated his preference of potential teams he wants to play with and none include the Pistons. Should everyone ignore what Jimmy is saying? We all know now that Morris had a melt down and was severely depressed when he was traded to the Pistons. Morris has never been considered a star caliber player yet he was very upset with what happened. I wonder if things would be different if Zeke were in his prime. Don't you think a lot of high caliber players would want to play basketball with him? My point here is that Tom Gores must not have a clue as to how NBA players on other teams feel about our current roster players. No star player wants to play with our alleged star players. So if you are a competent owner you should know that by now. If you are paying attention as an owner then you must know that you have made huge mistakes in judgement to get to this point. What is the only logical course of action that the owner should be contemplating now? regardless of how long it might take, the Piston organization must come to it's senses and not have impossible goals set to get star veteran players but instead build a solid team through the draft.  Agreed. That and full and complete development of current youth.

Meanwhile this should be the year where management pulls of several miracles and trades everyone who has big contracts. Andre Drummond is about the only player who can be traded. Blake Griffin has in impossible contract unless he hates it so much he will take a buy out. RJ has an impossible contract to move unless he has an outstanding season. Leuer has an impossible contract to move as well. It appears that even if the owner wanted to break up this team his hands will be tied because of so many bogus contracts. But my issue is that I don't believe that the ownership group is thinking rationally yet. They still believe they have some winning caliber players. Here, I think health will tell the tale.  Leuer, Reggie and Blake, SJ, and ReggieB have played very well in spurts.  Health could turn those good spurts into an impressive team.  Chemistry and continuity can turn those good spurts into team productivity.  

I am wondering which current Piston players are being considered as trade bait for Butler. Drummond, Griffin and Jackson cannot be in that group. That means that the owner is actually considering trading all of our young unproven yet potentially good players for the future. If that happens then the Pistons will have Butler, Griffin, Drummond, Leuer, and Jackson fighting for a playoff spot and who else? We all expect Jon Leuer to explode this season don't we??? Maybe AD will play shooting guard and run though screens like Hamilton.  On paper the Pistons might be the worst off of any NBA team relating to potential of winning a championship within the next 6 or 7 years. At this point, I will verge from the consensus and say, let's become a Washington Wizards type team, winning a few playoff rounds for the next few seasons.  After we establish that, the leap to the next step, to a Chip, will be a combination of luck, talent, and health.

I just hope some of the young guys can beat out the high contract players for playing time. But that doesn't happen in the NBA does it. Thank God for college basketball.

Way to go Detroit Lions! Keep on winning.

Lions and Pistons in stiff competition to lead the city in Kool Aid sales.

[cool breeze]

Remember Bob M. while playing for Boston saying whatever happens to me I want it known that I do not want to play in Detroit? The cocky recently hired head coach of the Pistons who also was in charge of trades ignored that plea from Big Bob and went ahead and signed him anyway. Of course we all know what happened next with the creation of "Bird Rights". Larry goes to Boston and Big Bob played basketball in Detroit with a half assed effort and was gone. Dick also had three draft picks that season and his first pick was Phil Hubbard who had been an outstanding player before he severed his ACL in the season before Dick drafted him. Do any of you think if Vitale had been around he might have passed on Isiah Thomas? Dick was looking for the Dapper Dandies for sure. It is incredible that he was able to move from coaching to the microphone and have a long career.

So how will Tom Gores new staff deliver the goods? What can they do to attract the top star players to play for the Pistons? Jimmy Butler has stated his preference of potential teams he wants to play with and none include the Pistons. Should everyone ignore what Jimmy is saying? We all know now that Morris had a melt down and was severely depressed when he was traded to the Pistons. Morris has never been considered a star caliber player yet he was very upset with what happened. I wonder if things would be different if Zeke were in his prime. Don't you think a lot of high caliber players would want to play basketball with him? My point here is that Tom Gores must not have a clue as to how NBA players on other teams feel about our current roster players. No star player wants to play with our alleged star players. So if you are a competent owner you should know that by now. If you are paying attention as an owner then you must know that you have made huge mistakes in judgement to get to this point. What is the only logical course of action that the owner should be contemplating now? regardless of how long it might take, the Piston organization must come to it's senses and not have impossible goals set to get star veteran players but instead build a solid team through the draft. Meanwhile this should be the year where management pulls of several miracles and trades everyone who has big contracts. Andre Drummond is about the only player who can be traded. Blake Griffin has in impossible contract unless he hates it so much he will take a buy out. RJ has an impossible contract to move unless he has an outstanding season. Leuer has an impossible contract to move as well. It appears that even if the owner wanted to break up this team his hands will be tied because of so many bogus contracts. But my issue is that I don't believe that the ownership group is thinking rationally yet. They still believe they have some winning caliber players.

I am wondering which current Piston players are being considered as trade bait for Butler. Drummond, Griffin and Jackson cannot be in that group. That means that the owner is actually considering trading all of our young unproven yet potentially good players for the future. If that happens then the Pistons will have Butler, Griffin, Drummond, Leuer, and Jackson fighting for a playoff spot and who else? We all expect Jon Leuer to explode this season don't we??? Maybe AD will play shooting guard and run though screens like Hamilton. On paper the Pistons might be the worst off of any NBA team relating to potential of winning a championship within the next 6 or 7 years.

I just hope some of the young guys can beat out the high contract players for playing time. But that doesn't happen in the NBA does it. Thank God for college basketball.

Way to go Detroit Lions! Keep on winning.

[Murph]

I don't mind some of the Pistons jacking up more 3s, as long as they are the right ones. I would give the green light to Kennard, Bullock, Robinson, Calderone and Galloway.

I would give a yellow light to Griffin, Ellenson, Leuer, Thomas, and Brown, until they can prove themselves.

And I would give a red light to Drummond, Jackson, Smith, Johnson and Pachulia.

[WTF]

So Casey's plan is to have them jack up 3's as well how sad is this crap.   I guess we might as well hung on to SVG if this is the case because it certainly sounds like the same sad story as far strategy goes "Get  stops jack up 3's in transition"   

Yep expectation win 55 reality say's another thing this is a stupid ass owner

[cool breeze]

I love all the ideas posters present relating to potential trades for players we are tired of watching. Yet even though we fantasize I think most of us are realistic enough to believe that there is no team in the current NBA who is crazy enough to take on Reggie Jackson's contract. I think SVG lost his job mostly because of the decision to sign Reggie for the $16 to $18 mil contract. He has a lot of outstanding performances closing out games in one season. The following year teams had figured out how to stop the Pistons with a healthy Reggie Jackson by encouraging his dribble happy one or no pass half court offense. If he did pass the ball it was always to Andre Drummond. There was never a time where GMs believed Reggie Jackson was not a liability on defense when he was at his best. Then the injuries came along with the puzzling lack of energy or oxygen. Reggie's chest swelled up as if he was having difficulty breathing even when he was jogging. There is something clearly wrong with Reggie Jackson's overall health. He is not faking anything. The guy is trying to perform well but his body will not cooperate. I can't hate RJ. It is beyond his control. I believe that the Pistons should get what they can from Reggie but not count on his services at all.

Murph suggested that Reggie is be careful to get though training camp in one piece and might be functional when the regular season begins. After thinking about that idea I remembered what Michael Jordan used to say to his teammates over the summer and during training camp. Steve Kerr used to talk about what it was like when Jordan led his team in training camp. It was brutal hard ass word that included hours of full court press work and running, running, running until your guts hurt from vomiting. Zeke and others on his team set the tone during training camp too. They knew that the toughest highest conditioned team usually comes out on top. So in the current state of Piston land, where are the leaders in conditioning? That has been a big problem for many years now. We fans can see our players during the regular season games out of gas and not making the extra effort to get to their spots on their half court defense and then work their feet. Our players stand flat footed. How can anyone cheer for the Pistons based on how they played two seasons ago when the team leaders quit after the first half of the season. They clearly quit playing with any passion and got away with it. I am still mad as hell and the coaches must have had no respect at all for several of the highest paid athletes. Last season was clearly better relating to effort. But players several vets who came into training camp last fall are no longer on the team.

Andre Drummond will never lead any team he plays in in the suicide drill. AD could be an elite defender if he got himself in proper shape and dropped 30 pounds. He will get his rebounds of course and will not be the worst player on the team next year but he has never been considered a leader or winning type athlete unless he has a brain transplant. I don't mean to pick on AD with this post. I just see his potential not being fulfilled. Blake Griffin is a fragile player. He plays really hard and physical but his days as an effective player are numbered.

I respectfully disagree with any poster relating to the idea that any one player on this current roster has distinguished himself enough that he should not be considered as a trade piece. There is no player on the roster who is a complete player or a leader. type guy who actually hates to lose. There is no player who can make winning plays on defense or offense yet. When the chips are down the current players we have watched for years do not show up. The Pistons have not had an identity since Billups was traded. Now we have the alleged starting point guard Reggie Jackson sitting on the sidelines during brutal training camp days. Just recalling what Michael Jordan did in training camp. He came to the first practice in incredible physical condition for starters. And from there he demanded every ounce of heart his teammates could muster as they played tough physical full court defense for hours every day to prepare themselves for what was coming. And they were ready when the regular season began. His teammates did not wait to get in game shape after the first month of the regular season. They followed the example Michael set. Nobody on this Piston team has set any goals except for their individual goals to obtain stats for their next contract. It is just hard to like this current Piston organization since Tom Gores bought the club. I can't identify with the style. Why not bring back the teal?

Good interview today with three young Suns players who are bonding. What are their goals are for the future? Win the championship was the answer. Phoenix has 3 young talented hard working kids who could care less about stats. They want to build a winning team through hard work. Those guys are not only talented but have high basketball IQs. So impressed with what they said about the importance of training camp, conditioning etc. Nobody said they needed more rest over the summer either like AD said two summers ago. The Suns have snagged three winners through the draft. Phoenix management did not try to sell snake oil to their loyal fans. They lost big while playing their young. They have three potential All Star players of the future while our Pistons have middle of the road players at every position.

Trade them all and start over please. We don't want Jimmy Butler either. How many games does he have left in those legs? The Pistons are a small market team that can only have a chance by building through the draft. How long will it take for this owner to get that through his head???Lose big and secure high draft picks that compliment each other. Do that for 4 years and the Piston fans can start dreaming again. The team that gets the 7th and 8th spot in the playoffs in the Eastern conference will be a below average team. Can this team even get the 8th spot. That seems to be the overall goal of this owner. The problem is that there have been so many bone headed decisions by management relating to contracts for under performing over rated players that it is next to impossible to remove the dead weight of this contracts. Maybe the Pistons will be able to start over in 4 more seasons. So there will be 4 seasons of dull inept basketball being played in downtown Detroit. The question will always be can the Pistons avoid ending the season with a losing record??

[Sparma]

Murph: "...IF Butler would agree to a contract extension."

That ain't happening. In European soccer, players will agree to terms at the time of a transfer, but I can't remember that happening in the NBA. Is a handshake deal in advance of an official contract renewal against the CBA? Maybe my memory's off.

[Murph]

I would be willing to give up a package of Reggie, SJ, Khyri Thomas and a 1st rounder for Butlter...IF Butler would agree to a contract extension.

I would also probably be willing to give up Blake for Butler and filler, just to get rid of Blake's contract, in order to rebuild.


I would not trade Drummond, Kennard, Brown or Bullock.

[Phil-Good]

You telling me WIGGIE STILL F.U.C.K.I.N.G. INJURED!!?!?!?!? DAMN, What A BUM!!

Don't care who the Pistons trade. Don't move Luke Kennard. You about to see this season that the kid is A OFFICIAL BALLER now that he has A head coach who plays young players.

[Sparma]

"Not gonna throw Kennard to the Wolves."   Good line, BallinD.

It's the kind of trade that's really stupid, unless you're close to a championship like the 'Stros with Verlander.

One thing I'll say in its favor: I believe Kennard is at peak value right now.  Murph wants him to fill in at PG?  I do too, but I've got doubts based on seeing him getting crowded again and again.

Best case for Kennard is borderline All Star, as I see it.  Now that's real value, not to be dispensed lightly.  Jimmy B's the genuine article though, already an All Star and a defensive star.

Trouble is, he's definitely want out of the D after a year.  

Am I remembering wrongly that the Celts ended up with Al Jefferson in the Rasheed trade?  Thing is, the '04 Pistons were really good, or the verge of true excellence.  That's when you go for it.

Even with AD-Blake-Butler I think the Celts, 76ers, and maybe the Raptors would be favored ahead of us in the East.

Don't worry, the Wolves wouldn't go for it (i.e. Reggie J/ Leuer/ Kennard for Jimmy B).  They'd probably want a 1st rounder thrown in.  Whereas we'd only be willing to give up a 2nd rounder, the one we have coming in 2026.

Lions up 20-10 on the dynasty of this generation.  Might there be life there after all?

We don’t need to do the Middleton again with Kennard.  But whatever we can do to dump Weggie, I’m all for it.  I also say no to Blaktfor Jimmy straight up.  Why would he stay if Blake’s gone.

How close would Reggie J & Leuer & Kennard get you to one year of Butler?  Good trade?  Bad trade?  I'd probably do it.  Obviously it's giving up Kennard that would hurt.

It's the kind of trade the Houston Astros were so reluctant to make before springing for Verlander.

Anyway, the Timberwolves would probably want more.  I wonder if Galloway could help it work, along with Kennard.  Some kind of package of Leuer, Galloway, Kennard, and Stanley J.?  Not the kind of trade I'd like to make, but the team seems ready to go for bust.  Some additional players would need to come back to make the rosters work.

Stanley J.'s a tough one.  If he keeps up his level of play, he not worth an expensive extension; if he breaks out this season, the team probably can't afford him unless they give up on resigning Reggie B (please no!)

[BallinD]

Not gonna throw Kennard to the Wolves. We don’t need to do the Middleton again with Kennard. But whatever we can do to dump Weggie, I’m all for it. I also say no to Blaktfor Jimmy straight up. Why would he stay if Blake’s gone.

How close would Reggie J & Leuer & Kennard get you to one year of Butler?  Good trade?  Bad trade?  I'd probably do it.  Obviously it's giving up Kennard that would hurt.

It's the kind of trade the Houston Astros were so reluctant to make before springing for Verlander.

Anyway, the Timberwolves would probably want more.  I wonder if Galloway could help it work, along with Kennard.  Some kind of package of Leuer, Galloway, Kennard, and Stanley J.?  Not the kind of trade I'd like to make, but the team seems ready to go for bust.  Some additional players would need to come back to make the rosters work.

Stanley J.'s a tough one.  If he keeps up his level of play, he not worth an expensive extension; if he breaks out this season, the team probably can't afford him unless they give up on resigning Reggie B (please no!)

[Sparma]

How close would Reggie J & Leuer & Kennard get you to one year of Butler? Good trade? Bad trade? I'd probably do it. Obviously it's giving up Kennard that would hurt.

It's the kind of trade the Houston Astros were so reluctant to make before springing for Verlander.

Anyway, the Timberwolves would probably want more. I wonder if Galloway could help it work, along with Kennard. Some kind of package of Leuer, Galloway, Kennard, and Stanley J.? Not the kind of trade I'd like to make, but the team seems ready to go for bust. Some additional players would need to come back to make the rosters work.

Stanley J.'s a tough one. If he keeps up his level of play, he not worth an expensive extension; if he breaks out this season, the team probably can't afford him unless they give up on resigning Reggie B (please no!)

[Murph]

If I had to guess, I doubt that Reggie's ankle is still hurting to the point where he'll miss regular season games. I think he's just hedging going into the pre-season. He probably doesn't feel up for all the conditioning, and wants to ease into training camp. I'll bet that once the pre-season games roll around, Reggie will play in most of them, and will begin the season as our starting PG, baring any new injuries.

That said, if he does miss time, I agree that Ish should stay with the 2nd unit, and that the Pistons should start Kennard at PG, along with Bullock at SG and Robinson at SF.

Brown is the guy I'd eventually like to see start at PG, but I doubt Casey will rush him into a starting roll, and he probably isn't ready anyway.

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