PF

[lemonpen]

When weighed and measured as a starter 2 years ago wasn't Tollie found to be lacking.
With Harris at the 4 spot we rebounded like crap when the opposition paid just a little attention to Dre.
As a starter Jon Lueur (sp) helped with his size but he was anything BUT a tenacious defender. Once his shot faded from sight ..............

What good does it do to use a lottery pick to obtain a BIG, TALENTED kid then allow him to corrode away behind lesser vets.

[lemonpen]

Thanks for your responses, Cool and Oracle.  That's a great compliment ("professional"), Oracle, of which I'm still hearing the after echoes.  Much appreciated.

Don, I think there's a good chance Avery stays.  If he gets the max, he'd get more here than elsewhere.   Maybe the odds are 50/50 right now?  

The odds shift according to how the season unfolds.  If he becomes the face of the franchise along with Drummond and maybe an emerging youngster (Kennard?), if he's accepted in the leadership role he clearly aspires to, if the team is reasonably successful (winning season & playoffs), then I think it's likely he'd stay.  On the other hand, if the team has a losing season and misses the playoffs, if he becomes embroiled in a locker room battle for leadership with Dregie, if he's got an attractive offer elsewhere, it's likely he bolts, even if that means leaving millions on the table.

It will be interesting to watch how much this uncertain future status affects his leadership aspirations.

I think the odds are far less than 50/50. Doesn't Dre, Harris, and RJax eat up something north of half of our cap. If Stan falls in love with Bradley, someone's gotta go. And you know where my vote lies.

[deusXango]

@Ballin - I don't care if Ellenson performs at the level he has, he needs to be solidly in the rotation. Thanks for the response, Oracle.  If he performs at the level he has, then he has "earned it." Solidly in the rotation is the result of the performance, not the cause but that is a SVG call, who has been known to "call em wrong on the regular."  The post was predicated on the notion he is earning it.   But if we wear the same blinders, SVG apparently wears, he will never earn it, no matter how well he performs?!?! 

The level he's performing at is great for who he is, but it's hardly enough to knock out a player that does more of the things you need, is stronger and more versatile. Needless to say, a lot more experienced. In what area does Leuer have superior versatility? Experience?! Are we running a veteran team and hoping to accomplish what, or are we developing young talent for championship contention down the road?

He's got to blow up a lot more and show this over a longer period of time. Ellenson stands on equal footing with every legitimate PF on the team, except he's being denied the opportunity to really "blow up," which they've had. 

Your judgement is way premature, but that seems to be the theme of your post.

After that, you prematurely jumped to additional conclusions. You've been around the block long enough to NOT jump all over preseason game activity.

There are some natural markers, and most of us like to wait until about 20 games into the season before we truly get a sense of where things stand. I'm not an advocate of waiting after what that process did for us with trading RJ...we waited, and waited (still waiting) until his trade value dwindled to zero...what's his worth right now? Put Ellenson in the fires of NBA competition for the first 20 games and see how he does.

I'm not a doctor, but I sometimes like to play doctor 

AUBURN HILLS - "Henry Ellenson displayed his entire repertoire of skills in a 1:32 span Friday during the Detroit Pistons' preseason win over the Atlanta Hawks. His entire repertoire? when did he demonstrate his passing skills, or ability to make quick, high I.Q. decisions, or grit and determination, or don't they count?

He hit a 3-pointer, put the ball on the floor and scored on a driving layup, made a nine-foot floater and sank an 18-foot jumper. This paints a picture of an extremely talented big man, who according to SVG "has a ways to go defensively," but the "2 best players" on the team play the sorriest defense in the NBA. What makes their games sooo good that their lack of sound defense can be excused?

Oracle, I really hope I'm wrong, but this type of media coverage supporting SVG's stubbornness, and his player bias attitude takes away from my hope for a successful season, even if we should make the playoffs.

[Sparma]

Thanks for your responses, Cool and Oracle. That's a great compliment ("professional"), Oracle, of which I'm still hearing the after echoes. Much appreciated.

Don, I think there's a good chance Avery stays. If he gets the max, he'd get more here than elsewhere. Maybe the odds are 50/50 right now?

The odds shift according to how the season unfolds. If he becomes the face of the franchise along with Drummond and maybe an emerging youngster (Kennard?), if he's accepted in the leadership role he clearly aspires to, if the team is reasonably successful (winning season & playoffs), then I think it's likely he'd stay. On the other hand, if the team has a losing season and misses the playoffs, if he becomes embroiled in a locker room battle for leadership with Dregie, if he's got an attractive offer elsewhere, it's likely he bolts, even if that means leaving millions on the table.

It will be interesting to watch how much this uncertain future status affects his leadership aspirations.

[Oracle]

\(•_•)
( (> ha
/ \

(•_•)
<) )╯ha
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> ha
/ \

(•_•)
<) )╯ha
/ \

\(•_•)/
( ( stayin alive
/ \

[Oracle]

This could be huge! Click below for full article.

Adam Silver already has changed the format of the NBA’s All-Star Game, and now he’s looking at shaking up the league’s playoff system. 

The NBA commissioner told ESPN’s Nick Friedell that the league is considering reseeding the playoffs to include the top-16 teams regardless of the conference if they can make the schedule more balanced. 

“Reformatting the playoffs is something we’ll continue to look at,” Silver said. “I think though it would require revisiting the regular-season schedule as well. As I’ve said before, we don’t play a balanced schedule now, as I’m sure you know. And for those that don’t, that means that teams in the East play each other more than they play teams in the West. 

“And our feeling is, if we were going to seed 1-16, we would need to play a balanced schedule to make it fair for everyone if we were going to seed 1-16 in the playoffs. It may be that as we continue to experiment with the number of days over which we can schedule 82 games that it will create more of an opportunity for a balanced schedule.” 

[Oracle]

@Ballin - I don't care if Ellenson performs at the level he has, he needs to be solidly in the rotation. Thanks for the response, Oracle.  If he performs at the level he has, then he has "earned it." Solidly in the rotation is the result of the performance, not the cause but that is a SVG call, who has been known to "call em wrong on the regular."  The post was predicated on the notion he is earning it.   But if we wear the same blinders, SVG apparently wears, he will never earn it, no matter how well he performs?!?! 

The level he's performing at is great for who he is, but it's hardly enough to knock out a player that does more of the things you need, is stronger and more versatile. Needless to say, a lot more experienced.

He's got to blow up a lot more and show this over a longer period of time. 

Your judgement is way premature, but that seems to be the theme of your post.

After that, you prematurely jumped to additional conclusions. You've been around the block long enough to NOT jump all over preseason game activity.

There are some natural markers, and most of us like to wait until about 20 games into the season before we truly get a sense of where things stand.

I'm not a doctor, but I sometimes like to play doctor 

[BallinD]

@Ballin - I don't care if Ellenson performs at the level he has, he needs to be solidly in the rotation. Thanks for the response, Oracle.  If he performs at the level he has, then he has "earned it." Solidly in the rotation is the result of the performance, not the cause but that is a SVG call, who has been known to "call em wrong on the regular."  The post was predicated on the notion he is earning it.   But if we wear the same blinders, SVG apparently wears, he will never earn it, no matter how well he performs?!?!

I know some want him to start, but I wouldn't do that right away, it's a long season, if he earns it then he should get it, but right now, Leuer is the better pro.

 It is a long season, and that long season was not so kind to Leuer last year, who fell off a cliff the second half of the season, so there is that.
 
KCP Watch

Three Laker Losses, three poor shooting games from KCP in his inimitable inconsistent style.  Glad we got Avery!

SCORE              MIN                   FGM-FGA                FG%      3PM-3PA    3P%            Points          Date

L 104-122      
                               17                        4-13              .308         3-6             .500            11                      10-4

L 107-113
                              29                         5-12               .417         1-6 .         .167              15                     10-2

L 99-108
                              19                         1-7                 .143         0-4           .000               4                     9-30

Per ESPN: Caldwell-Pope (suspension) poured in 15 points (5-12 FG, 1-6 3Pt, 4-4 FT) and added five rebounds, four assists, two steals and a block over 29 minutes in Monday's 113-107 preseason loss to the Nuggets.

Spin: After a sluggish 1-for-7 effort from the floor in the preseason opener last Saturday, KCP was much sharper Monday while also playing 10 additional minutes. The 2013 first-round pick has yet to tally a success rate of greater than 42.0 percent from the field over his first four campaigns, but he's expected to get plenty of opportunities in what should be a fast-paced Lakers attack during the coming season. Caldwell-Pope also typically provides above-average numbers in the steals category and has upped his free-throw percentage after each of the last two seasons, topping out at 83.2 percent with the Pistons in 2016-17.

ESPN Fantasy Projection: Los Angeles is a great landing spot for KCP, but he needs to prove himself before we can trust his value. In today's world, it is essentially assumed that all guards (and most players for the matter) can threaten defenses from the perimeter, thus saturating the fantasy market with shooters and diluting the value of said specialists. Caldwell-Pope's average distance of shot spiked 16.4 percent over his 2015-16 rate, and with less than 25 percent of his shots coming close to the basket, we are looking at a player who is losing value by the season, given the direction of the NBA. Can he shoot? Yes, in the way that a land line can still make a phone call.

[Oracle]

Outside of Reggie, Drummond and possibly Bradley & Harris, but our secret weapon may be that we have a sh!t load of them.

Depth appears to be our secret weapon. At full strength, SVG can field a better than average starting unit and have damn near a whole team of average players capable of wearing out other benches and holding against thinner teams.

If what I'm seeing carries over into the regular season, this team will be like a watered down version of the awesome depth we had in 2004.

Sparma reported that the word was that we could be fighting for the 7th or 8th seed, and if true, that would be very disappointing. I expect a higher finish, the floor, IMO, should be 5th or 6th seed in this weak east.

Notes: Looks like Reggie & Bullock are getting well, and both of them dramatically change the mix if healthy.

Man, Drummond can't catch a break on that mug of his! Fighting off rogue boogers, now he's struggling with crusty eyes... Damn!!!

[cool breeze]

I caught a lot of the Sirius radio preview of the Pistons, consisting of interviews with Bradley, Kennard, and Jackson.  They saw the Pistons battling for the 8th, maybe the 7th, playoff spot.

Each of the guys acquited himself well in the interview.  The commentator expressed some skepticism regarding Jackson, saying that he talked the talk, but now he needed to walk the walk.

Kennard gave the least away, saying the right things in a guarded way.  A Derek Jeter-style interview, where you appear to be engaging with the questions, but convey nothing of real interest.  Skillfully done.

What struck me with Jackson was how much he praised Drummond, comparing him to a Ferrari, saying there are only 10 to 15 of them in the league (guys with elite ability, seemed to be the idea).  He depicted AD as the guy who needs to lead the charge, while Reg himself needs to be the leader from the point.

Jackson clearly placed AD and himself as the leaders of the teams, which was interesting in distinction from Bradley [I don't know if Jackson had heard his comments.]  When asked, he did praise Bradley, but also noted what a capable (think he said "great") defender and shooter KCP had been, and how he wished him well.

Bradley, when asked at the outset what he could bring to the team, featured the leadership he can bring.  I'd say that was his principal theme.  His elaboration consisted of emphasizing the importance of working hard in preparation, of giving consistent effort in the games, and of not being intimidated by anyone.  He conveyed having more than held his own against Jimmy Butler in the playoffs.  Concerning leadership, he specifically brought up being a leader on defense (he conveyed he'd done this in Boston), partly by talking a lot (by organizing the defense).  He mentioned Stanley Johnson specifically, referring to his impact on younger players.  

Quite a statement by Bradley, self-assuming a/the mantle of leadership.  Reggie seemed to convey an alternative model (from a couple of seasons ago).

Taking leadership as the new guy, particularly as one who may be leaving in a year, is tricky.  Bradley did mention some things that I believe are in range at once as a potential leader: 1) working hard every day in preparation, 2) showing consistent effort on the floor, 3) not being intimidated by stars, 4) being available as mentor to young players, and 5) communicating a lot on defense, facilitating its organization.   All that doesn't necessarily equate to being acknowledged as the leader in the locker room, but it really moves Bradley in that direction, unless there an adverse reaction (who's this guy who may walk out on us next year?), or a battle for leadership (AD/RJ), or if Bradley can't stay on the floor due to extended injury.

btw, on the topic of leadership:

Former Houston coach McHale: Harden's not a leader.
Harden in response: He's a clown.

Very interesting Sparma. If there is not a challenge for new leadership we can expect the same type of team chemistry that we saw in the last half of last season. That is only my opinion but some of the players who lived though the nonsense with AD and RJ being the designated leaders by Piston management instead of the roster players will not want to listen to either Reggie or RJ. They figured those two men out last season.

To add to this subject about leadership within the Piston team, please note that Tim Hardaway might be part of the problems Detroit had last season. He is the coach who is in charge of the guards. Under Tim Hardaway, our point guards have played selfishly with both Smith and Jackson trying to be a one man show last season. Both had only two purposes on offense. Find their own shot or try to create something for AD. I know that Smith would not do this on his own. This lame strategy was created by none other than Tim Hardaway, with SVG's blessing, who was a ball dominate point guard himself in his day. SVG of course approved this plan to feature an offense that revolves around the point guard and center. By playing both Reggie and Andre at the same time, the other 3 players had their hands full trying to defend 5 opposing players by themselves. Reggie was absolutely horrible on the defensive end last season and was always targeted the year before by opposing teams when Reggie was fully healthy. How can you ever think of yourself as a team leader if you are always the weak link on defense??? As for AD, how can the team leader be a player who hasn't shown that learned the defensive rotation system in 5 seasons? This past week, Tim Hardaway mentions Reggie as the catalyst leader that has to be fully healthy to fulfill that role of being the leader. So one has to assume this is what he and SVG actually want. That is really scary.

Meanwhile, the Pistons have a player in Avery Bradley who is highly respected as a player who plays the right way thought the league. AD and RJ do not have that destination for sure. They are both the subject the game plans for every Piston opponent. All coaches know their weaknesses and know about their slacking abilities.Coaches know where and when they are likely to start slacking because there is a lot of game film available to give them that information. Exploit slackers when they are on defense. The two slackers are - drum roll - can't guess who SVG? We seem to have to tell SVG and his coaching staff of YES men who those slackers are because they are determined to make the players who cause the most problems with chemistry their designated leaders. Reggie hasn't played a minute yet but is already politicking and it seems to be working at least with Tim Hardaway. Last season's coaching was among the worst that I have ever witnessed by any Piston coaching staff in any other era. Dick Vitalle and his staff was of course the worst ever but he was quickly fired. Dick could never figure out that even though MacAdoo stated he didn't want to play for the Pistons that he actually meant it. Not changing the composition of the Piston coaching staff at least with some of the assistant coaches, is incredible. The coaches completely lost their team last season. They helped create the bad chemistry by meddling and forcing two problem players down the rest of the roster's throats. Then insulted those same players when SVG banned any additional players only meetings because AD and RJ became agitated after being confronted for being selfish on offense and slacking on defense.

One recent article about the Pistons suggested that there is still a lot of interest out there for AD. Too bad something can't get worked out to include Reggie in any deal involving AD. Then they can do their thing with another organization and be team captains and hold hands for eternity. The Pistons now have some good young players who want to play the right way. Making a Hot Dog and a low basketball IQ center the focus and center piece of the team will cause a lot of headaches for the unlucky remaining players under contract. Of course Bradley will want no part of that and will make plans to leave as soon as possible.

Who knows for sure if Avery Bradley won't want to sign with the Pistons? He might think Detroit could be a great fit. But as long as AD and RJ are wearing Piston uniforms nobody will want to play for the Pistons. Maybe if management could give away Jackson and pay for part of his salary, AD might become a better player. But it seems the Pistons are on a path to keep the status quo so the 4 out 1 in ball dominate point guard style will be here for as long as SVG is here. And RJ will be looking to score or dish to AD on every possession. Reggie will just tell the other 3 players to cover for him and AD on defense. That is what great leaders do right ?

Maybe RJ and AD sell tickets because of the propaganda Piston management has put out there in Piston Land. This is the NBA after all. People do enjoy a circus act don't they? What will SVG do this year. Will he coach the right way and make his decisions based on facts or will he do what he did last season? Does SVG have everything under control. I hope so and maybe he is smarter than things might appear. Perhaps he has something lined up relating to a big trade. Will SVG have to give up one of his young promising studs like Johnson, Ellenson or Kennard to dump Reggie's salary? Can he get some team to bite before Reggie ever plays on exhibition game?

[WTF]

Pull this game out and make up for the UM loss 

[Oracle]

@Sparma - Thanks for the info about the Sirius Broadcast, that was VERY interesting, but even better were your comments/observations, very professional. 

BTW, on the leadership issue, I agree 100%... with both Harden & McHale! Harden can't spell leadership, that's hardly news, but McHale is a clown and idiot for actually saying it in public like that. I'm shocked that a real player would break the player code that badly. There were a lot of ways of saying that in public that doesn't directly come out like that.

@Ballin - I don't care if Ellenson performs at the level he has, he needs to be solidly in the rotation. I know some want him to start, but I wouldn't do that right away, it's a long season, if he earns it then he should get it, but right now, Leuer is the better pro.

Lions - Wow, the Panthers are looking good kicking the Lions arse 6 minutes left in the 3rd, 27-10, and it really isn't that close.

I may be having vision problems, but I could swear I saw SVG handing this out on the Lions sideline.

[BallinD]

Go Lions!  My Spartans won, so   Lions need a vintage comeback, but they look flat today, so there is that! Now on to the Post.


SVG wants SJ (his lottery pick) to have every opportunity to become our junkyard dog, and can he become our Draymond Green, with a lot of effort and mentoring from AB?

SVG notices that Ellensen is offensively gifted, fluid, a matchup nightmare for opponents and appears to be coming into his own with a shot and offense significantly better than Stanimal, as well as better rebounding, which in itself is a defensive statistic.

So the tradeoff is ostensibly defense vs offense.  It is also Tobias at SF Ellensen at PF, vs Stanimal at SF and Tobias at 4, which would help the logjam at the 4, long term and I think make us a more diverse offense, but the defense might suffer, with the exception of rebounding.

Since we are significantly better at Defense vs poor at Offense, I am somewhat puzzled at which tradeoff I would choose, because the team has said their identity needs to be defense, but we all know we could sorely use Ellensen's offense and rebounding, which rebounding is definitely superior to that of Stanley.  Stanley might be a better playmaker, but I think Ellensen has more upside there and equal handles, if not better.  

I'm gonna lean toward Ellensen if he keeps up his stellar play, it makes us a much more dangerous team and Ellensen is due for a breakout.  I think his breakout may be better than Stanimal's breakout, judging from the looks of things right now.   I think SVG is definitely leaning toward being biased toward SJ, but is now acknowledging that Ellensen is playing at a higher level right now.

Forum, what do you think?

[Sparma]

I caught a lot of the Sirius radio preview of the Pistons, consisting of interviews with Bradley, Kennard, and Jackson. They saw the Pistons battling for the 8th, maybe the 7th, playoff spot.

Each of the guys acquited himself well in the interview. The commentator expressed some skepticism regarding Jackson, saying that he talked the talk, but now he needed to walk the walk.

Kennard gave the least away, saying the right things in a guarded way. A Derek Jeter-style interview, where you appear to be engaging with the questions, but convey nothing of real interest. Skillfully done.

What struck me with Jackson was how much he praised Drummond, comparing him to a Ferrari, saying there are only 10 to 15 of them in the league (guys with elite ability, seemed to be the idea). He depicted AD as the guy who needs to lead the charge, while Reg himself needs to be the leader from the point.

Jackson clearly placed AD and himself as the leaders of the teams, which was interesting in distinction from Bradley [I don't know if Jackson had heard his comments.] When asked, he did praise Bradley, but also noted what a capable (think he said "great") defender and shooter KCP had been, and how he wished him well.

Bradley, when asked at the outset what he could bring to the team, featured the leadership he can bring. I'd say that was his principal theme. His elaboration consisted of emphasizing the importance of working hard in preparation, of giving consistent effort in the games, and of not being intimidated by anyone. He conveyed having more than held his own against Jimmy Butler in the playoffs. Concerning leadership, he specifically brought up being a leader on defense (he conveyed he'd done this in Boston), partly by talking a lot (by organizing the defense). He mentioned Stanley Johnson specifically, referring to his impact on younger players.

Quite a statement by Bradley, self-assuming a/the mantle of leadership. Reggie seemed to convey an alternative model (from a couple of seasons ago).

Taking leadership as the new guy, particularly as one who may be leaving in a year, is tricky. Bradley did mention some things that I believe are in range at once as a potential leader: 1) working hard every day in preparation, 2) showing consistent effort on the floor, 3) not being intimidated by stars, 4) being available as mentor to young players, and 5) communicating a lot on defense, facilitating its organization. All that doesn't necessarily equate to being acknowledged as the leader in the locker room, but it really moves Bradley in that direction, unless there an adverse reaction (who's this guy who may walk out on us next year?), or a battle for leadership (AD/RJ), or if Bradley can't stay on the floor due to extended injury.

btw, on the topic of leadership:

Former Houston coach McHale: Harden's not a leader.
Harden in response: He's a clown.

[Sparma]

Really rough loss by the Wolverines. Is Dantonio a coaching genius, last year notwithstanding? Dang, he's now won 8 of 11 vs UM. Looks like we can expect a struggling O, along with a great D, moving forward. The coaching staff's got its work cut out for it the rest of the year.

[Oracle]

Michigan's defense played well enough to win, but unfortunately State's defense did exactly the same.

The difference was that Michigan't offense just couldn't generate enough points early and State did.

Not the result I wanted, but a great game. Michigan's season is on life support nationally right now!

How could I forget to say GO BLUE!!!!!! 

[WTF]

How could I forget to say GO BLUE!!!!!! 

[WTF]

What I've liked so far with Kennard in 2 preseason games so far is that he doesn't turn the ball over.  Eventually his shot will come around but he plays smart and don't panic.  He doesn't look bad on his shot he's just missing right now I'm still confident. 

Ellenson also looks good offensively it seems hard to believe SVG will ice him out of the rotation but I wouldn't be shocked if he does.  I would also like to see SVG give Andre another game off just to see more of Moreland.

BTW Reggie is not hurt SVG is talking with some team (don't know who) about moving RJ.  The conversation has been going on for awhile and likely intensified once RJ was declared healthy. I think the hold out is to avoid any risk of injury while talks are going on.  If I had to guess RJ will be packaged with Boban for a legit starting PF and Harris will be moved back to starting SF.

[cool breeze]

While beating up on SVG in my last post I tend to agree with him on the idea that both Johnson and Ellenson need some consistency this season to keep their confidence level high. Playing with confidence is key to success in any sport but is especially true when playing offense in basketball. Ellenson and Johnson are not going away anytime soon. They along with Kennard should grow a lot in the next two years. However, I still think there will be times this year where at least on defense, both Ellenson and Johnson will be needed at times to play another position. Johnson might have to matchup against Love when the Pistons and Cars meet. Ellenson could be called into action if Boban and Moreland cannot play well enough to be trusted in crunch time on defense. But overall I agree with SVG with his idea that it would be best if both players can settle down and become comfortable at one position. The cool thing for me is how Henry is fighting to earn a spot in the rotation. Also, Kennard is going to be a fun player to watch this season and he is earning his spot in the rotation and has been helped out because of Bullock's knee issues. SVG might be forced to play his young guns and the fans will love it regardless of the outcome of the games.

[cool breeze]

When was the last time that SVG looked that close to pick out errors or omissions from a big man that he has coached since becoming the Piston head coach? Moreland had lapses and he didn't run the court fast enough. Oh really. Why was SVG silent last season when AD jogged up and down the hardwood in all of those loses? It appears that Moreland did exactly what I expected he would do if he got a fair chance. Moreland is so much better as a defender than AD it is silly. My bet is that if Moreland had grabbed 30 rebounds in that game, SVG would have found some reason to find fault with him. But watch when Boban drags his slow feet up and down the court and averages 2 defensive rebounds over the first 30 regular season games. Will SVG make any negative comments? I expect that the center position will be occupied by AD, Boban and Leuer. Minutes are determined by contracts according to the world of SVG.

And notice the comments on Ellenson. Ellenson has a nice game and SVG chimes in saying well we have some real studs playing exceptionally well right now who play power forward. In other words, don't count on Ellenson being a big part of this year's team. SVG has so much talent at the power forward spot there will be no room for Ellenson. Remember that dreary season last year. SVG made no changes in his rotation with the exception of moving Harris to the bench to prove that Leuer was worth $10M. This is the NBA where nothing ever makes sense because management must cover up for their mistakes by playing those who have the biggest contracts. Based on last season's mindless foolishness where it appeared children were running the Piston organization and doing the right thing was never an option, I have no confidence that the best players will be on the floor much of the time. SVG will do his best to breakdown guys like Moreland instead of building him up so he will play with heart. Moreland is a guy who plays 50% better when he knows his coach has his back. SVG will instead give AD a long leash along with his other star players, Boban and Leuer. I am happy that Jon Leuer did bring it last night. He is a real athlete and does try to play the right way. But he will have trouble earning that 10M.

[Murph]

Oracle, thanks for the observations.   I'm not a big Ish Smith fan, but I wonder if the lineup wouldn't be more stable if Smith started, and Jackson came off the bench to contribute as many minutes as he can, without reinjuring his knee.  Smith is a stable, known quantity.  Jackson with his knee is a big question mark.

A longer term solution might be for Bradley to start at PG, and Kennard to start at SG, but for now, Smith is probably the safest bet.

I don't understand why SVG is starting two SFs, when he has 4 competent PFs coming off the bench.  Is SJ that good on defense?  He is a game changer on D?  Because he's sure underwhelming offensively and on the boards.

[Oracle]

The top stories tonight from my biased perspective(the game is all but over).

1. Ellenson is beating the crap out of Leuer for that starting position, IMO. He looks more fluid and just a better player.
2. Stanley is getting it a lot more. nothing outstanding, just an observation.
3. Moreland may beat out Boban if he keeps this up. he may never score as much, but he's a demon on the boards, and with some more work, could be an intimidator.
4. Forgot 1 thing: Tolliver was GREAT tonight, his effect was REAL  

Bradley got off to a very slow start but came on to lead along with Harris, we'll likely see a lot of that this season(if Reggie stops dribbling).

Kennard also got off to a slow start, missing everything, but later found the range a bit.

This was close until the 2nd half, but the Hawks are terrible, IMO. I expected us to crush them and they did.

[cool breeze]

Pre-season is a time for player evaluations, but with the strangeness of the Pistons regression last year, the Pistons  pre-season is for coaching evaluations also. The decision making of a great coach is as important as the X's and O's and with Drummond expected to miss tonight's game, who starts at center is an important decision, especially since this game doesn't count on the season; will it be Boban (who's as game ready as can be) or will it be Leuer who SVG "see as a starter in this league?"

Who starts tonight is a clear indication of where SVG's head is at in terms of his rotation; if his mind is made up now, where's the room for open competitiveness? Drummond and Jackson are locks to start, as is Bradley at SG, but absent Andre and Reggie, Bradley is stuck at SG more than a lock...what, no room for Kennard to start and Bradley can't show his combo guard skills by starting at PG? These games don't count, but they damn sure matter to SVG. Even the most casual fans want to see Boban in a starting role, but if we get Leuer as a starter, well......

If we are going with a small set of forwards, wouldn't this be the perfect time to see how Bullock and Harris play together? I don't think we should be stuck on SJ and Harris at this point; sure, I'd be okay with Bullock and Harris, but I'd really, really, love to see Harris and Ellenson as our starting forwards. If our coach decided to start and play the players for one game, instead of the "money men," that'd be an indication, to me at least, that ego and stubbornness no longer poisons our brain trust. We've got a better team, now all we need is better coaching.

dX SVG has been very protective of Boban. He has mentioned several times that Boban is a very tired individual because of all those minutes he played on his Euro ball team. SVG paid a lot of money that surprised his former head coach with the Spurs. Leuer, Smith and Boban were all paid way more money than they were worth on the open market. Did any other GM make an offer for any of them and if so how much were their offers? Maybe SVG must really believe that no NBA player who has made an NBA roster before wants to play in Detroit. To get them there he must over pay them three times their real value. Did Leuer's agent tell SVG my player doesn't want to play for the Pistons. That is his last choice. You will have to offer Jon $10 mil a season to get him. Meanwhile, the Suns had no interest in signing Leuer for $1M. They thought Dudley was much better coming off the bench. So just how did Jeff and Stan come up with that number for Leuer? And who wanted Boban other than as a side show to throw out on the court after the Spurs rotation players had built up a huge lead.

Must be Moreland is not making a good impression so far so maybe playing really well in the Summer league games meant nothing. Leuer starting at center to me means that SVG is preparing fans to get ready to see a lot of losses. You have identified something significant dX. SVG mentioned possibly using Leuer at center earlier in the summer. I thought he might be joking. If Leuer is a better choice at center than Boban and Ellenson he must have gained 30 pounds. Love is moving over to center with the Cavs. Must be SVG is thinking about that. Is Jon Leuer SVG's secret weapon this season? He is athletic at least and I hope Jon can become a successful player because the center position might be the weakest position on the Piston team this year. If AD actually decides to put in an honest effort on the defensive end this year, he is going to be in foul trouble a lot. He is just not fundamentally sound. So the option for him to play hard and accumulate a lot of fouls or become a slacker again. Maybe SVG told him to do a lot of slacking last season on defense to avoid foul trouble.

[cool breeze]

Pre season means next to nothing when it comes to predicting how vets who have been in the league for 2 or more seasons will play in the regular season. I attended a Suns pre season game that was held in Tucson a few years back and noticed that none of the vets were paying much attention to the game when they sat for almost the entire affair. This is a good time for rookies and younger players who haven't been battle tested to get their licks in. So when fans say that guy didn't look that great or just looked average referring to Harris and Bradley of all players, then it was most likely true but those guys just don't want to risk an injury playing in a meaningless game. And the coaches are not interested in any of their key players scoring 30 points in a pre season game. So AD and RJ will take the night off and most of the vets might play as well but they will also be taking the game lightly. Yet already some fans don't want Johnson to start. How does anyone know that he hasn't earned a starting job? I just don't get it. Does Leuer, Ellenson, Tolliver deserve a starting role? In my opinion only two players, Bradley and Harris have earned starting positions. Andre Drummond sure hasn't earned his place in the starting lineup based on his play during the entire last half of last season. Reggie Jackson hasn't earned a starters job. He should be the 3rd point guard at this moment in time. I can keep going down the list if you want.

This roster is full of players who need to prove themselves this season. If they don't, then their stock will drop big time. I have big questions relating to Boban's ability to play basketball at NBA level. Leuer was so weak on defense playing power forward , how can the coach expect him to be successful at the center position. Is Moreland that bad? Is Ellenson that bad? I will at least admit that I know next to nothing that has gone on at the Piston facility over the summer and in training camp so far. For some reason SVG thinks Leuer can play center. Wish I could see the game to figure out why he thinks that way.

One big piece of news is that Bullock has a knee issue with major swelling. That is not good news. Many of us were hoping he would finally have better luck with the injury bug. So some of you who are already determined that Stanley Johnson should not be a starter need to start looking at the players on this roster and figure out who might be more deserving. Of course you have all attended every practice and watched all of the games last season so you have it down better than I do. I just know that at one point in Johnson's life he was able to play 5 different positions and he played them all well. The coach could pencil him in wherever he could cause the most trouble for the opposition and he was able to be the best player on 4 championship teams in high school. I know high school doesn't mean much but I saw Johnson in two of those games and he was over powering and stood out much like Labron did when he played in that McDonald's All Star game. Last season Johnson was broken by his coach. And he was greatly affected by the results of the players only meeting where all of the players with the exception of Reggie and Andre learned that the head coach was not interested in the team playing the right way. Johnson has put in a lot of work over the summer and he is determined to be successful no matter what his coach does this time around. SVG is not a bad guy. But he knows how to breakdown young players and then build them back the way he wants them. Some of his former players will testify to that and thank him for it. Last season Johnson had no plays called for him and was told to stand beyond the 3 point line and watch the point guards dribble around the perimeter. He was almost in shock when he did get to touch the ball. He was told to change his jump shot in training camp. There are a lot of things that went wrong for Johnson last season. Please keep an open mind..

[Oracle]

@DX - Well, you can start fussing at SVG right now. Here's the low down for tonight.

Ish Smith again will start for Jackson and Jon Leuer will start for Drummond. Tobias Harris, Stanley Johnson and Avery Bradley remain the other starters. Van Gundy wants to get looks at two players who didn’t play in Wednesday’s opener, Eric Moreland at center and Anthony Tolliver at power forward.

Stanley: I won't comment, but here's what they're saying, and it's interesting.

ESPN.com posted an article Thursday to project breakout candidates from the 2015 draft class.
The author mentioned how pro personnel representatives view Johnson’s potential at power forward.

“There's no question he needs to play with more steady toughness and shoot the ball better, but NBA teams would be wise to monitor Johnson closely moving forward, seeing him as more of a power wing and small-ball 4 than he has played in Detroit,” ESPN.com draft analyst Mike Schmitz wrote.

He also wrote how Johnson’s physical dimensions fit today’s style of play.

“Only so many 6-foot-6, 240-pounders with a 7-foot wingspan exist, and very few have the offensive potential and defensive versatility that Johnson has shown flashes of,” Schmitz wrote.

Side Note: For all of you Injured Reserve Lovers, Reggie Bullock is out with a knee injury already, yup, he'll make a great starter  Nothing like a new contract to bring on the pain... it's Miller Time...

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