Re: FORUM

[Murph]

This loss meant nothing. It was a scheduling loss...playing the Cavs on the second night of a back to back, and the 3rd game in 4 nights. And the officiating was horrible. There's no shame in losing this one.

The game I'd like back, however, is the Indiana game.

[cool breeze]

3 games in 4 nights for the young Pistons with Labron's team arriving on Saturday waiting to pounce. This is a game for the players to keep in the backs of their minds to use as fuel for future matchups with Cleveland as the team grows.

SVG needed to empty his bench in the first half in my opinion. The only advantage the Pistons have on Cleveland is at center and AD being our franchise player just didn't have an All Star night for sure. He looked tired like the rest of the team. Cleveland could't miss from the outside but often nobody got out to contest shots. Piston defense has been looking shabby lately and they could never get a streak where they could get out of that funk and get stops. Great game preparation by the Cavaliers which is scary when thinking that this is how opponents will attack the Pistons if they make the playoffs.

With that said I enjoyed watching Galloway play point guard in the 4th quarter. He doesn't screw around and dominate the basketball. He sees the court and gets the offense moving and Galloway offers better defense. I am not saying SVG should change his rotation system relating to the point guards but Galloway is an option on nights when neither Jackson or Smith can play effective defense or get the offense untracked. I thought that we would see more of Galloway at point earlier than this blow out game.

Ellenson had some rust when he entered the game. Nobody can look good when you sit that long at the end of the bench. Henry would be better off playing in the minor league than sitting. In the last 3 minutes Ellenson hit two 3 point shots and ran the court hard. I think it has been a mistake not to play Ellenson for at least 5 minutes a game. the team has 4 power forwards and Henry should be elevated to number 3 ahead of Leuer. On nights like this, Ellenson should be playing at least 20 minutes. The hand writing was on the wall in the first quarter. This Piston team was over matched and out of gas. This was a game for the subs. Instead SVG did nothing positive for the confidence of the rotation players trying to beat a dead horse in front of the home crowd is humiliating. But I know there is the other argument that suffering humiliation can be a motivator.

This has been a tough time period and a test for this Piston team. It isn't going to get any easier. The Timberwolves were not sharp and allowed Detroit to get untracked to pull out a close game. Cleveland had no defects. They kept passing the ball around until the Piston defense broke down. And the Piston offense just wan't there at all last night. Move on and get ready for the next game and don't make too much of this beating. I just hope Fans come out to the next home game in large numbers to support this Piston team. Learn from this loss and keep getting better Piston players.

[WTF]

I might be safe with my 39 win prediction. talent wise we should win 50 games but mentally this team is lacking.  Really a 28 point ass whipping on your home court is pathetic!  I could live with a loss no shame in losing to the Cavs but not by 28 points  this team could fall from 1st to 4th place in a blink of an eye with OKC and Boston up next.

[Oracle]

If you read that Hoops Hype article, it also verifies the Tolliver effect I mentioned as a huge reason we're better, but Galloway is also a spark! Which pretty much destroys the media's claims about Bradley being the reason we're better. He makes us better, but he's not the catalyst.

The best two-man lineup who have played at least 100 minutes together for Detroit is when Galloway and Tolliver run the floor together.

These two offer strong three-point shooting options for the Pistons and have so far outscored opponents by 28.2 points per 100 possessions so far this season.

Tolliver has also outscored his competitors when he is on at the same time as Moreland, Bradley, Harris, Jackson, Kennard, Drummond and Smith.

Bradley averages 5.7 rebounds per 36 minutes when Tolliver is on the court, but just 2.9 rebounds when Tolliver is not on the court. He averages an outstanding 30.3 points with Galloway on the court, but 18.9 points without him.

Meanwhile, Drummond averages 18.9 rebounds per 36 minutes when Tolliver is on the court and 15.8 rebounds when Tolliver is not on the court. He also averaged 17.2 points with Galloway, but just 14.6 points without him.

Galloway is 6-foot-2, but surprisingly ranks No. 3 overall (behind just DeAndre Jordan and Serge Ibaka) in field goal percentage among all players who have taken at least nine shots in the non-restricted area of the paint, via NBA.com.

[Oracle]

The following combination of players has been very effective so far and I expect more out of them when things get difficult as the season progresses. 
Smith - Tolliver - Moreland - Kennard - Galloway - Bradley - Johnson

Don, you pretty much nailed it, just remove Johnson & Bradley.  Here's what Hoops Hype has to say...

Duncan Smith elaborated on why this has been such a problem for Detroit (via The Athletic):

“The Pistons starters are consistently getting outscored on a quarter by quarter and game by game basis. It’s definitely concerning and no longer just a curiosity.”

There is only one five-man lineup with a positive net rating that has played more than 14 minutes together, per NBA.com.

Michael Aleksandrov@Shoeless_11

The Smith/Kennard/Galloway/Tolliver/Moreland lineup is so underrated.. #DetroitBasketball
4:49 PM - Nov 17, 2017

However, it does not feature any of their stars: Langston Galloway, Luke Kennard, Eric Moreland, Ish Smith and Anthony Tolliver have outscored their opponents by 17.8 points per 100 possessions.

[Oracle]

Oracle your calling in life must be your gift to get under the skin of other human beings in an attempt to make them feel bad. I wonder how that works for you if you are married.

Don, all I did was tell the truth, what you said just wasn't true.

The truth shouldn't hurt or get under your skin... should it?
PS: 10 minutes left in the 4th and the ass whooping continues 

[Oracle]

Here I'd been thinking they had a chance.

Why no Boban showing?  We need Morelnd in as defensive specialist??!  Get some O going.  Cleveland can't stop Boban; I'd like to see LeBron try.

Moreland fumbled a nice pass by Stanley, who's done a few nice things.  C'mon SVG.  Make an adjustment (eg Ish cannot guard Wade!!).  The Cavs are incredibly hot from outside; that's not going to keep up.   You need some O.  The Pistons' O looks really disorganized.  Sadly, towards the end of the half Reggie's solo work looked like the best thing they've got going.  Dre doesn't have his head in the game.

Oh, and great replay on the tech on SVG.  LeBron was outrageously tugging on Avery's arm, preventing him from playing help defense.

They did, but it certainly wasn't much of one 

[Sparma]

Here I'd been thinking they had a chance.

Why no Boban showing? We need Morelnd in as defensive specialist??! Get some O going. Cleveland can't stop Boban; I'd like to see LeBron try.

Moreland fumbled a nice pass by Stanley, who's done a few nice things. C'mon SVG. Make an adjustment (eg Ish cannot guard Wade!!). The Cavs are incredibly hot from outside; that's not going to keep up. You need some O. The Pistons' O looks really disorganized. Sadly, towards the end of the half Reggie's solo work looked like the best thing they've got going. Dre doesn't have his head in the game.

Oh, and great replay on the tech on SVG. LeBron was outrageously tugging on Avery's arm, preventing him from playing help defense.

[cool breeze]

Keep it accurate,

Enter the 2nd unit and within 20 seconds everything changed.

Sorry to interrupt your false blame game, but...

The only substitution that changed anything in the 1st quarter was the insertion of Ish Smith, then we went on a run.

It was a 1 point game when Moreland went in next, and we lost the quarter by 2 points... care to make anything else up 

Oracle your calling in life must be your gift to get under the skin of other human beings in an attempt to make them feel bad. I wonder how that works for you if you are married. You are nasty and sassy Oracle but you are a Piston fans so I am good with your criticism although you missed my point. What I get excited about in games is how the team is executing on both offense and defense when they are playing well together as a unit. you are correct the score didn't change that much but Minnesota players did not get easy inside shot attempts up and they didn't get many 2nd chance opportunities with Moreland on the floor. The important point is that the Pistons looked like a good team even if the shots were not falling by the skill players during the time Moreland was in the game while giving AD some recovery time. The Pistons did not go down by 20 like we have seen in the past with other back up centers. He did not hurt the team.

The Pistons went on a 14 to 2 run from late in the 1st quarter to get back in the game. Then they had to do it again in the 4th quarter. Smith was a catalyst. But the addition of Moreland to the 2nd unit is a success story in my opinion and I believe he is going to be even more effective as the season moves forward. The lack of an effective defensive presence within the 2nd unit has caused huge problems until Moreland stepped up to take over that job from Leuer. The team looks so much better with him coming off the bench because he can challenge shots and play with outstanding energy. Leuer got pushed around a lot. Boban is too slow against most NBA teams. Boban may yet have his day if the opportunity arises. But the Leuer experiment at center must end.  Eric can really jump and he is a quick jumper. He appeared to be close to the top of the backboard in transition defense once in the 2nd half to deflect a shot. Moreland offers the Pistons a change up from AD's style that causes problems for opponents. He is a poor man's Ben Wallace type of center and I for one give Stan Van Gundy and his staff big time credit for bringing him to the Summer league games and then signing him. Fantastic move. I could care less if you like him or not Oracle. I love watching him and SVG is loving what he has brought to this team. This is a great combination the Pistons have now with Drummond and Moreland with minimum cost as far as Eric is concerned relating to payroll. You could see Eric's  impact in the Loss to Milwaukee where his quickness and energy was  uplifting for his teammates who had been getting burned by the Bucks with easy shots within 3 feet from the basket. Piston players like him too Oracle in case you didn't notice. They don't hesitate passing him the ball to give him a little pay back for the hard work he puts in.  When the first unit seems bogged down and appears sluggish and the 2nd unit comes in opponents are forced to deal with something different relating to all of the 2nd unit players.  Moreland is a big part of this greatly improved 2nd unit if you can't see that and are only looking at the score you are really missing a lot of excitement.

This was a game where the Pistons overcame a lot of unforced errors. Errors made my the officials didn't help our team either. That call against Bradley where Butler flopped on the 3 attempt with the ref standing within two feet should be brought to the attention of the NBA front office.

This game was the opposite of the previous loss where this time in crunch time everyone came up big when it counted. Andre was outstanding at times in the 4th quarter even blocking a shot and helping to contain Butler by stepping out to form a wedge with Johnson at a time when Butler was determined he would get what he wanted and Butler wasn't able to shoot it at close to the end of the shot clock.  Bradley hitting two huge 3 point shots from the baseline corner got the Pistons believing that they could steal this win. It is hard to win in tennis when you commit an incredible amount of unforced errors. Our Pistons did the impossible with the help of The Timberwolves who also played sloppy basketball. I didn't look at the stats but think maybe Minnesota had more turnovers than the Pistons. Reggie came up big in the end and the Pistons were lucky Butler missed that bank shot at the end. Harris made the pressure free throws. These players are bonding and liking each other. They look like they are having fun and even in the loss to Indiana I sure enjoyed watching the peaks and valleys this team went through. Beautiful win but this could be a tough night against Labron's crew who are rested.

[cool breeze]

Keep it accurate,

Enter the 2nd unit and within 20 seconds everything changed.

Sorry to interrupt your false blame game, but...

The only substitution that changed anything in the 1st quarter was the insertion of Ish Smith, then we went on a run.

It was a 1 point game when Moreland went in next, and we lost the quarter by 2 points... care to make anything else up 

Oracle your calling in life must be your gift to get under the skin of other human beings in an attempt to make them feel bad. I wonder how that works for you if you are married. You are nasty and sassy Oracle but you are a Piston fans so I am good with your criticism although you missed my point. What I get excited about in games is how the team is executing on both offense and defense when they are playing well together as a unit. you are correct the score didn't change that much but Minnesota players did not get easy inside shot attempts up and they didn't get many 2nd chance opportunities with Moreland on the floor. The important point is that the Pistons looked like a good team even if the shots were not falling by the skill players during the time Moreland was in the game while giving AD some recovery time. The Pistons did not go down by 20 like we have seen in the past with other back up centers. He did not hurt the team.

The Pistons went on a 14 to 2 run from late in the 1st quarter to get back in the game. Then they had to do it again in the 4th quarter. Smith was a catalyst. But the addition of Moreland to the 2nd unit is a success story in my opinion and I believe he is going to be even more effective as the season moves forward. The lack of an effective defensive presence within the 2nd unit has caused huge problems until Moreland stepped up to take over that job from Leuer. The team looks so much better with him coming off the bench because he can challenge shots and play with outstanding energy. Leuer got pushed around a lot. Boban is too slow against most NBA teams. Boban may yet have his day if the opportunity arises. But the Leuer experiment at center must end. Eric can really jump and he is a quick jumper. He appeared to be close to the top of the backboard in transition defense once in the 2nd half to deflect a shot. Moreland offers the Pistons a change up from AD's style that causes problems for opponents. He is a poor man's Ben Wallace type of center and I for one give Stan Van Gundy and his staff big time credit for bringing him to the Summer league games and then signing him. Fantastic move. I could care less if you like him or not Oracle. I love watching him and SVG is loving what he has brought to this team. This is a great combination the Pistons have now with Drummond and Moreland with minimum cost as far as Eric is concerned relating to payroll. You could see Eric's impact in the Loss to Milwaukee where his quickness and energy was uplifting for his teammates who had been getting burned by the Bucks with easy shots within 3 feet from the basket. Piston players like him too Oracle in case you didn't notice. They don't hesitate passing him the ball to give him a little pay back for the hard work he puts in. When the first unit seems bogged down and appears sluggish and the 2nd unit comes in opponents are forced to deal with something different relating to all of the 2nd unit players. Moreland is a big part of this greatly improved 2nd unit if you can't see that and are only looking at the score you are really missing a lot of excitement.

This was a game where the Pistons overcame a lot of unforced errors. Errors made my the officials didn't help our team either. That call against Bradley where Butler flopped on the 3 attempt with the ref standing within two feet should be brought to the attention of the NBA front office.

This game was the opposite of the previous loss where this time in crunch time everyone came up big when it counted. Andre was outstanding at times in the 4th quarter even blocking a shot and helping to contain Butler by stepping out to form a wedge with Johnson at a time when Butler was determined he would get what he wanted and Butler wasn't able to shoot it at close to the end of the shot clock. Bradley hitting two huge 3 point shots from the baseline corner got the Pistons believing that they could steal this win. It is hard to win in tennis when you commit an incredible amount of unforced errors. Our Pistons did the impossible with the help of The Timberwolves who also played sloppy basketball. I didn't look at the stats but think maybe Minnesota had more turnovers than the Pistons. Reggie came up big in the end and the Pistons were lucky Butler missed that bank shot at the end. Harris made the pressure free throws. These players are bonding and liking each other. They look like they are having fun and even in the loss to Indiana I sure enjoyed watching the peaks and valleys this team went through. Beautiful win but this could be a tough night against Labron's crew who are rested.

[cool breeze]

Keep it accurate,

Enter the 2nd unit and within 20 seconds everything changed.

Sorry to interrupt your false blame game, but...

The only substitution that changed anything in the 1st quarter was the insertion of Ish Smith, then we went on a run.

It was a 1 point game when Moreland went in next, and we lost the quarter by 2 points... care to make anything else up 

Oracle your calling in life must be your gift to get under the skin of other human beings in an attempt to make them feel bad. I wonder how that works for you if you are married. You are nasty and sassy Oracle but you are a Piston fans so I am good with your criticism although you missed my point. What I get excited about in games is how the team is executing on both offense and defense when they are playing well together as a unit. you are correct the score didn't change that much but Minnesota players did not get easy inside shot attempts up and they didn't get many 2nd chance opportunities with Moreland on the floor. The important point is that the Pistons looked like a good team even if the shots were not falling by the skill players during the time Moreland was in the game while giving AD some recovery time. The Pistons did not go down by 20 like we have seen in the past with other back up centers. He did not hurt the team.

The Pistons went on a 14 to 2 run from late in the 1st quarter to get back in the game. Then they had to do it again in the 4th quarter. Smith was a catalyst. But the addition of Moreland to the 2nd unit is a success story in my opinion and I believe he is going to be even more effective as the season moves forward. The lack of an effective defensive presence within the 2nd unit has caused huge problems until Moreland stepped up to take over that job from Leuer. The team looks so much better with him coming off the bench because he can challenge shots and play with outstanding energy. Leuer got pushed around a lot. Boban is too slow against most NBA teams. Boban may yet have his day if the opportunity arises. But the Leuer experiment at center must end. Eric can really jump and he is a quick jumper. He appeared to be close to the top of the backboard in transition defense once in the 2nd half to deflect a shot. Moreland offers the Pistons a change up from AD's style that causes problems for opponents. He is a poor man's Ben Wallace type of center and I for one give Stan Van Gundy and his staff big time credit for bringing him to the Summer league games and then signing him. Fantastic move. I could care less if you like him or not Oracle. I love watching him and SVG is loving what he has brought to this team. This is a great combination the Pistons have now with Drummond and Moreland with minimum cost as far as Eric is concerned relating to payroll. You could see Eric's impact in the Loss to Milwaukee where his quickness and energy was uplifting for his teammates who had been getting burned by the Bucks with easy shots within 3 feet from the basket. Piston players like him too Oracle in case you didn't notice. They don't hesitate passing him the ball to give him a little pay back for the hard work he puts in. When the first unit seems bogged down and appears sluggish and the 2nd unit comes in opponents are forced to deal with something different relating to all of the 2nd unit players. Moreland is a big part of this greatly improved 2nd unit if you can't see that and are only looking at the score you are really missing a lot of excitement.

This was a game where the Pistons overcame a lot of unforced errors. Errors made my the officials didn't help our team either. That call against Bradley where Butler flopped on the 3 attempt with the ref standing within two feet should be brought to the attention of the NBA front office.

This game was the opposite of the previous loss where this time in crunch time everyone came up big when it counted. Andre was outstanding at times in the 4th quarter even blocking a shot and helping to contain Butler by stepping out to form a wedge with Johnson at a time when Butler was determined he would get what he wanted and Butler wasn't able to shoot it at close to the end of the shot clock. Bradley hitting two huge 3 point shots from the baseline corner got the Pistons believing that they could steal this win. It is hard to win in tennis when you commit an incredible amount of unforced errors. Our Pistons did the impossible with the help of The Timberwolves who also played sloppy basketball. I didn't look at the stats but think maybe Minnesota had more turnovers than the Pistons. Reggie came up big in the end and the Pistons were lucky Butler missed that bank shot at the end. Harris made the pressure free throws. These players are bonding and liking each other. They look like they are having fun and even in the loss to Indiana I sure enjoyed watching the peaks and valleys this team went through. Beautiful win but this could be a tough night against Labron's crew who are rested.

[Oracle]

Keep it accurate,

Enter the 2nd unit and within 20 seconds everything changed.

Sorry to interrupt your false blame game, but...

The only substitution that changed anything in the 1st quarter was the insertion of Ish Smith, then we went on a run.

It was a 1 point game when Moreland went in next, and we lost the quarter by 2 points... care to make anything else up 

[cool breeze]

The following combination of players has been very effective so far and I expect more out of them when things get difficult as the season progresses.
Smith - Tolliver - Moreland - Kennard - Galloway - Bradley - Johnson

The Pistons started the game looking flat where the motion offense was non existent. Point guard play was horrible where Reggie again refused to make the correct pass to initiate the half court offense early enough. He also did not use both sides of the court at any time. This is when the Pistons were stuck on using their first option and that meant that everything depended on Harris to make difficult shots. During the first quarter Harris couldn't make any shots going something like zero for eight. Also, Reggie allowed dribble penetration and the Timberwolves were getting 2nd chance opportunities. However, I must note that in my opinion this was Andre Drummond's best quarter he has played since I started watching him relating to defense. He was alert and picked up his man quickly and actually boxed out some. AD still provided energy on offense when the starting unit was flat as a pancake. He got offensive rebounds and was fouled. However, the Pistons were struggling. The chemistry of the starting unit did not look good. Their overall defense looked shoddy.

Enter the 2nd unit and within 20 seconds everything changed. Moreland was everywhere as usual on defense stopping dribble penetration in transition and then switching back to his assigned man on defense. All of those 2nd unit players which included Johnson at first and later when Bradley joined that group were actually playing as a smooth unit on both ends. The distinctive difference between the first and 2nd unit is how teammates get back in transition with purpose and speed. Everyone does the right thing meaning if two guys get back first they pick up the driver and stop the driver cold. Then that same player releases the ball carrier back to the Piston assigned to that player and quickly moves back into the paint to pick up his man. I love that. Piston fans that is real basketball not NBA fake basketball. It takes hard work to do that and you have to be unselfish. Quickly the Pistons 2nd unit built up a nice lead.

Then with around 5 minutes left in the 2nd quarter SVG gradually brought back the starters. And by the 4:39 minute mark the starters had lost that lead when the score was 40-39 after Ty Gibson made a tip in over AD on the weak side. Someone should write a book on the peaks and valleys of AD and RJ. We never know when they will be engaged or not. After being so impressive in the first quarter, AD was AWOL again on defense leading up to that Gibson tip in where AD failed to recognize that he needed to look and box out Gibson. And AD also did not guard anyone for three straight defensive stands. It looked like he didn't know who he was supposed to defend so he just stood in the paint. Still with that said, AD is not the same AD from last season or even the season before. He has more moments where he is concentrating better and jumping out of penetrators and disrupting opponents trying to get the easy close in shots. AD for the most part is a much improved player and now he just needs to increase his commitment to full concentration on defense and becoming more alert relating to knowing where opponents are trying to crash the boards. I truly think that when AD goes to the bench to rest he is watching how Moreland rotates so well on defense and plays with such powerful energy always challenging opponent shots in the paint. Maybe when the entire first unit sits and watches how fundamentally sound the 2nd unit is, that might inspire them to play the same way when they return to action. That of course didn't happen when they returned in the 2nd quarter but it appears there was some soul searching on the part of the starters at the half time break.

One other observation as to the importance of Stanley Johnson to this team even though his shot is not falling at a high percentage yet. Did any of you notice how Johnson was talking to both Jackson and Harris in the first half when both made mistakes in judgment on offense. To make the motion offense work, players with the ball must look to the weak side more for opportunities. Both Reggie and Tobias must start setting screens after they pass the ball or before the get the ball. They can't just stand and they must look opposite quickly when they have the ball. Tolliver is always moving and screening. He picked up three fouls in the first half that were bogus otherwise our Pistons most likely could have held on to that lead. I think the first unit could look much better if both Andre Drummond and Stanley Johnson touched the ball more in the half court offense. AD is seeing the floor well from the free throw line. Johnson knows where every player is located on the floor and he is an outstanding passer. It should not be just Reggie dominating the ball especially in the first half of games. If Johnson gets the ball on his side of the court, Bradley is bound to get open and if the player who is screening for Bradley is open, Johnson will deliver the basketball on the money. The starters need to start playing offense like the 2nd unit which is being directed by Ish Smith who is much more under control and using his amazing speed to get the motion offense in gear.

Could it be that this Piston team might actually improve as the season progresses instead of tailing off? One player who consistently motivates his teammates to get better is Avery Bradley. He never turns off his motor so I expect this team will grow into something more powerful than they are now. Nasty scheduling forces our Pistons to take on Cleveland tonight after a tough game and travel. Another test of character at hand.

[Oracle]

I'll say it again, this is the Reggie/Drummond show, and when they're right with the world, we're a hard team to beat, although the emergence of Harris and the addition of Bradley makes life easier.

Reggie: Nuff said, the dude took and made some BIG shots in the 4th. He still isn't back to form, but inching closer as the games roll on.

Drummond: He's the feel good story this year! We've been told how much better a passer Monroe was, but look at Drummond now! That pass to Bradley was a thing of beauty in the 4th, threading a needle to get it to him for the tough score with an and one!

Even if they had lost, I still like this team because they play competitive ball, fight and scratch, but it's not for the reasons people think. It isn't Bradley although he certainly helps.

It's the return of Reggie & Drummond coupled with the Tolliver effect. I say this because 2 years ago, we were an even tougher out! Very competitive and mentally tough because of talent and veteran leadership, which is where Bradley helps out as well.

I also have to give SVG some credit, he's still bone headed at times, but you can see he's getting smarter, mostly because he has no margin for posting a bad season.

Next up... let's roast some swash bucklers

[merc]

Just once I'd like to see SVG start Harris at SF and Tolliver at PF, and bring SJ off the bench.  That move would improve our starting lineup and our bench.

And move Kennard back to reserve SG, and make him compete with Galloway for minutes.  

No more smallball!

This is the best and most reasonable idea to invigorate the starting lineup, would open a bit of room for Ellensen, and give SJ the reins needed to get his azz in gear.  We wonder why we have so many slow starts, but having another scoring option in the starting lineup couldn't hurt.  

It can't hurt to try it.  And can we try AB and Kennard in the backcourt with Kennard playmaking.

I'm down with this also Murph... This would create more room in the paint with better spacing.

[cool breeze]

Just once I'd like to see SVG start Harris at SF and Tolliver at PF, and bring SJ off the bench.  That move would improve our starting lineup and our bench.

And move Kennard back to reserve SG, and make him compete with Galloway for minutes.  

No more smallball!

This is the best and most reasonable idea to invigorate the starting lineup, would open a bit of room for Ellensen, and give SJ the reins needed to get his azz in gear.  We wonder why we have so many slow starts, but having another scoring option in the starting lineup couldn't hurt.  

It can't hurt to try it.  And can we try AB and Kennard in the backcourt with Kennard playmaking.

If you watch closely you will see that there has been very little movement among the starters. If the team doesn't run a real half court offense that they do practice based on the motion offense, then it won't matter who starts at small forward. Many of the problems start with poor defense as to why RJ doesn't excite well within the motion offense. The Pistons have three weak defenders starting in Drummond, Jackson and Harris. Harris has problems against bigger power forwards. If he plays the 3 he has problems with quicker players who occupy that position on defense. Harris has to play somewhere so SVG thought his best matchups would be at power forward because he is quicker than most power forwards and can take defenders off the dribble well, create space to get his jump shot off, and he gets from baseline to baseline in transition quickly which is an advantage he has over a lot of power forwards. If he plays small forward he will be standing a lot on the weak side like Johnson. Johnson seldom touches the basketball when Reggie is playing with him. Reggie doesn't explore opportunities on the weak side. Reggie is busy trying to find his own shot or run a pick and roll play that opponents stopped last season. What happened to the motion offense where Reggie at times got a quick pass off to the wing usually to Bradley who then executed the motion offense that involves both sides of the court. The coach is upset with Reggie. He has benched him but somehow nothing phases Reggie. I even noticed Johnson pointing a yelling at Jackson after a timeout was called in the last game. That involved exactly what I am talking about above. Reggie did not attempt to execute the half court motion offense this team needs to play to be successful. Do any of you remember that possession when Johnson called Reggie out. It was the time late in the game where Reggie turned the ball over two times in a row. It was the 2nd time when Reggie dribbled around from one side to the other and then slightly penetrated and turned his back to his defender where a quick double team caused the turnover as one defender swatted the ball out of Reggie's hand while he was trapped and standing still. Mind you he was still dribbling instead of securing the basketball or passing it.

What I am liking that should not be passed over just because the Pistons lost two games now and blew that 22 point lead in the last game against an inferior opponent, is how well most of the players have adapted to the motion offense and how well they have been sharing the basketball. I have no problem with Johnson going in with the 2nd unit and starting Harris at small forward but I agree with the coach who believes Harris has an advantage playing power forward relating to his needed scoring. Johnson might likely would really be happier coming in off the bench with Moreland, Kennard, Tolliver, and Smith. If you think back even Bradley plays a lot better when SVG adds him to that group. Most of the skill players play better when they do not play with Reggie Jackson. From watching SVG lately I am getting the feeling that Reggie is on thin ice right now. If he continues to play the way Reggie wants to play instead of the style that best suits this team, then maybe the coach will do what I have been hoping for now for a long time. Bench Reggie and start Bradley at the point. Start Kennard at the 2. Harris remains at power forward with AD at center and Johnson or Galloway at small forward. Johnson will be needed on Monday to match up with Labron. This starting group that I have listed all play unselfishly. Johnson is needed to help out AD and Harris in the paint on defense. His shooting lately has sucked. Maybe it was due to his injury and the time off he took recovering. But his defense is needed and cannot be overlooked if this team is going to win games. The other thing that needs to happen is to get Ellenson into the rotation again. His poor shooting has prevented him from gettng minutes but I believe that eventually if he gets consistent minutes his outside shot will start dropping in the hole. I think that Johnson's percentages will also improve. But I have real doubts that Jackson can adjust his style of play to fit what works for this current roster. Reggie will win some games the way he plays but he will lose way more than he will win in the long run. The bottom line is Reggie looks confused in crunch time. Opponents know his tendencies and get him into playing Reggie vs the World. I think he knows that unless he changes he will be history as a Piston. Hopefully a new Reggie will emerge because he can shoot it well at times. Moving him to the 2 guard is also an option that should be at least tried with Bradley playing point.

[BallinD]

Just once I'd like to see SVG start Harris at SF and Tolliver at PF, and bring SJ off the bench.  That move would improve our starting lineup and our bench.

And move Kennard back to reserve SG, and make him compete with Galloway for minutes.  

No more smallball!

This is the best and most reasonable idea to invigorate the starting lineup, would open a bit of room for Ellensen, and give SJ the reins needed to get his azz in gear.  We wonder why we have so many slow starts, but having another scoring option in the starting lineup couldn't hurt.  

It can't hurt to try it.  And can we try AB and Kennard in the backcourt with Kennard playmaking.

[deusXango]

Stanley Johnson: I can't for the life of me understand why SVG won't get in this boys ass and stop him from shooting anything but corner 3's; play smothering defense for 85-90% of his time on the floor and leave the offense to the gifted offensive players....he ain't one of them!

Reggie Jackson: When I was on Reggie's ass this past summer, I wasn't totally wrong; that knee may go at anytime and his asthmatic condition is definitely here to stay, at his age (even on fast breaks he seems to labor more than he should). Right now he's closer to playing up to his contract than he was last year, but there's no possible upgrade trade that can be made now, so I'm all for keeping him for the time being.

Andre Drummond: The man is simply coming into his own...there are not many better big men in the entire NBA! It's time to stop looking at his contract and start looking (with honest eyes) at his game and the efforts to improve he's made.

Avery Bradley and Tobias Harris: These two are developing into something special...give 'em time.

Now on to this stunning bench, that's currently being misused, but is IMHO the best in the NBA....what was wrong with playing Boban on John Henson and Eric Moreland on the "Greek Freak?" The Freak is MVP material based on athleticism alone, because it's being displayed in a 6' 11" solid frame. Henson ain't that good to have a game determining impact on the Pistons; no one stops the "Greek Freak," but he can be slowed down. The Bucks game could've had a different outcome.

Similar observations can be made for each of our losses, but they're on the books and after whist makes no sense; SVG is learning and I expect that by seasons end we'll be an entirely different team, from the guy in the suit on the bench to the head coach. I'm pleasantly surprised with what I've seen so far, losses included, and hopeful that the exciting brand of basketball the Pistons are playing continues. Players are learning their roles and the intelligence quotient has gone up tremendously; the players are playing for each other instead of for themselves and that to me is the difference maker.

Bench Standouts: This early in the season, it's difficult to anoint anyone, but thus far, Ish Smith, Langston Galloway, Luke Kennard, Eric Moreland, and my favorite, Anthony Tolliver have been gold!

[WTF]

Cavs and Bucks are now just a 1.5 games behind and Indy 2 games behind are you worried yet?  The players are making all the right comments after these past couple of losses now lets see how they respond the next 5 games.

SVG is going to panic if the team loses the next 4 games and resort back to old thinking.

[Murph]

Do you realize Stanley Johnson is a career 37% shooter...from the small forward position???  And again this season, SJ's bricking-up shots at a rate of 38%.  We just can't have a starting small forward who shoots 38%.  

And based on the number of shots Johnson takes per game, it's clear that he doesn't even know how bad he is.

SVG...please remove your head from your ass, and make a lineup change.

[Murph]

Just once I'd like to see SVG start Harris at SF and Tolliver at PF, and bring SJ off the bench.  That move would improve our starting lineup and our bench.

And move Kennard back to reserve SG, and make him compete with Galloway for minutes.

No more smallball!

[Murph]

I guess we found out why Luke Kennard shouldn't play SF in a three guard offense.  Kennard's complete inability to contain Stephenson eventually led to Stephenson taking over the game in the 4th quarter.  Stephenson had 13 points and 6 rbds in the 4th quarter alone, and was a +16 on the night.

Stanley Johnson sucked to high heaven last night also.  Stanley once again shot himself into oblivion by going 1-9 from the floor, including 1-5 from the 3 point line.  And here I thought SJ was playing so he could defend guys like Stephenson, not so he could shoot 11% from the floor.  Silly me.

We really need Stanley Johnson to play smart basketball, if we're going to go anywhere this season.  And we need a real reserve SF, not a skinny white shooting guard masquerading as a SF.

[WTF]

This was the most winnable games of this current stretch of games I'm not sure they beat Minny weekend and I don't think they'll catch the Cavs sleeping nor will Boston be sleeping. They could pull off an OKC upset but I'm not banking on it.

People we could be looking at 4 or 5 game losing streak.   Really if they don't right this quickly the rest of November could be ugly.

How do you blow a 22 point lead?

[BallinD]

SVG... SMH preached he didn't want success to go to the team's head. But joke's on him. It's his thick head that's causing the problems. He snatched another defeat from the jaws of victory. Can't get out of his own way

Stupid Van Gundy

[cool breeze]

"And really, really, really, they need to scrap this Defensive Rating metric, if it actually somehow rated AD as leading the NBA in defensive rating last year...Shame!"

I didn't even realize Drummond led the league in defensive rating last year.  Impressive.

I don't think there's any esoteric formula behind the DRAT figure.  It's a straightforward number indicating how many points on average opponents score per 100 possessions when specific players are in the game.

The fact that teams scored the fewest number of points per 100 possessions when Drummond was in the game for Detroit last year is an indication just how important rebounding is..  It's not the Drummond is a great defender; Drummond is a great rebounder.  By rebounding, Drummond keeps the ball out of the hands of the other team.  And needless to say, it's impossible to score when you don't have possession of the ball, which explains Dummond's outstanding DRAT numbers.

Murph my best guess with all of the metrics that has been created over the last few seasons is that all involve corrupted input by player agents who have hired the geeks to come up with favorable information for their clients. Danny Ainge laughs that this type of nonsense. If AD was not the worst center among all starting centers relating to protecting the paint and shot blocking then Pee Wee Herman was a leading man in Hollywood when he was alive. Yes Pee Wee was a man hot women wanted to snuggle up with on the silver screen. If only that incident at the movie theatre had never happened. I wonder if there are any stats involving how many second chance opportunities opponents get when AD is playing defense? He does not challenge shots most of the time. He doesn't box out at all. AD switches off centers on to guards when his teammate is in position to defend the guard forcing the guard to switch over to the center. Good luck with that Ish. When a top NBA center plays against AD like Anthony Davis it becomes real brutal where Davis gets anything he wants at any area of the floor. I notice that AD at times shuffles in a nice defensive stance in the paint but he has no plan while doing it. He is not guarding anyone. He knows that he should get his legs bent more and does it but there is nobody in the area when he does that shuffle thing. But I am pleased that he is practicing the correct defensive positioning. Now if he could step out and stop a penetrator and keep his arms up and block some shots.

Over the past two games, I have noticed that Avery Bradley has talked to AD after a ref stops play. Those times are when AD has been out of position on defense. Maybe over time players like Bradley will be able to get AD in better shape mentally to help his team more as a paint protector. For sure no coach has been able to have any success with him so far. In college AD would sulk if any assistant coach mentioned something AD had done wrong on defense. He was very defensive minded which prevented any growth. I wonder what it is like for the coaches to deal with AD. My best guess is that they all tip toe around and try not to make him feel bad knowing he will have even less confidence on the defensive end which always leads to AD giving less energy. But if only AD could lose 30 more pounds to go with the weight he has already dropped, maybe that in itself would make him more energetic on defense. There is no question in my mind that AD is carrying too much weight. Maybe he will drop another 30 pounds next summer. Against some teams AD is more mentally ready than others which is a common problem for most centers at all levels. Very difficult to predict how AD will come out of the gate from game to game. But he is a better player so far than last season. Making more free throws keeps him in the game but when he has bad moments like last season such as not boxing out Whiteside and giving up that easy tip in for the Miami, who can be confident AD will be able to respond the right way when teams decide to go at him? Teams are still going at him as part of their game plan. That is what happened in the first quarter in the Bucks game. The Bucks players had no fear that AD was standing in the paint when they went up for those shots and offensive rebounds. They were forced to shoot the ball from the outside once Moreland came in to relieve AD.

I know I rag on AD maybe too much but as long as he is playing for Detroit one has to keep hoping that he will suddenly figure things out and have enough desire to provide the Pistons with what they need most - paint protector and shot blocker. I just do not see that ever happening though. He is not a quick thinker on defense like he is on offense. Opposing teams have this game plan. Keep AD off the offensive glass. Attack AD in the paint at every opportunity. Detroit has no second line of defense in the paint with the starting big men. It is up to the 2 guard and small forward to help clog up the painted area. It is very easy to get layups against the Pistons starting unit if a team is patient.

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