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Sparma, Ballin & Lions

Post  Oracle on Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:17 pm

@Sparma - Thanks for the info about the Sirius Broadcast, that was VERY interesting, but even better were your comments/observations, very professional. 

BTW, on the leadership issue, I agree 100%... with both Harden & McHale! Harden can't spell leadership, that's hardly news, but McHale is a clown and idiot for actually saying it in public like that. I'm shocked that a real player would break the player code that badly. There were a lot of ways of saying that in public that doesn't directly come out like that.

@Ballin - I don't care if Ellenson performs at the level he has, he needs to be solidly in the rotation. I know some want him to start, but I wouldn't do that right away, it's a long season, if he earns it then he should get it, but right now, Leuer is the better pro.

Lions - Wow, the Panthers are looking good kicking the Lions arse 6 minutes left in the 3rd, 27-10, and it really isn't that close.

I may be having vision problems, but I could swear I saw SVG handing this out on the Lions sideline.
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So Will It Come Down To SJ vs Ellensen?

Post  BallinD on Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:19 pm

Go Lions!  My Spartans won, so  guitar Lions need a vintage comeback, but they look flat today, so there is that! Now on to the Post.


SVG wants SJ (his lottery pick) to have every opportunity to become our junkyard dog, and can he become our Draymond Green, with a lot of effort and mentoring from AB?

SVG notices that Ellensen is offensively gifted, fluid, a matchup nightmare for opponents and appears to be coming into his own with a shot and offense significantly better than Stanimal, as well as better rebounding, which in itself is a defensive statistic.

So the tradeoff is ostensibly defense vs offense.  It is also Tobias at SF Ellensen at PF, vs Stanimal at SF and Tobias at 4, which would help the logjam at the 4, long term and I think make us a more diverse offense, but the defense might suffer, with the exception of rebounding.

Since we are significantly better at Defense vs poor at Offense, I am somewhat puzzled at which tradeoff I would choose, because the team has said their identity needs to be defense, but we all know we could sorely use Ellensen's offense and rebounding, which rebounding is definitely superior to that of Stanley.  Stanley might be a better playmaker, but I think Ellensen has more upside there and equal handles, if not better.  

I'm gonna lean toward Ellensen if he keeps up his stellar play, it makes us a much more dangerous team and Ellensen is due for a breakout.  I think his breakout may be better than Stanimal's breakout, judging from the looks of things right now.   I think SVG is definitely leaning toward being biased toward SJ, but is now acknowledging that Ellensen is playing at a higher level right now.

Forum, what do you think?


Last edited by BallinD on Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sirius Pistons Preview/ Leadership

Post  Sparma on Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:13 am

I caught a lot of the Sirius radio preview of the Pistons, consisting of interviews with Bradley, Kennard, and Jackson. They saw the Pistons battling for the 8th, maybe the 7th, playoff spot.

Each of the guys acquited himself well in the interview. The commentator expressed some skepticism regarding Jackson, saying that he talked the talk, but now he needed to walk the walk.

Kennard gave the least away, saying the right things in a guarded way. A Derek Jeter-style interview, where you appear to be engaging with the questions, but convey nothing of real interest. Skillfully done.

What struck me with Jackson was how much he praised Drummond, comparing him to a Ferrari, saying there are only 10 to 15 of them in the league (guys with elite ability, seemed to be the idea). He depicted AD as the guy who needs to lead the charge, while Reg himself needs to be the leader from the point.

Jackson clearly placed AD and himself as the leaders of the teams, which was interesting in distinction from Bradley [I don't know if Jackson had heard his comments.] When asked, he did praise Bradley, but also noted what a capable (think he said "great") defender and shooter KCP had been, and how he wished him well.

Bradley, when asked at the outset what he could bring to the team, featured the leadership he can bring. I'd say that was his principal theme. His elaboration consisted of emphasizing the importance of working hard in preparation, of giving consistent effort in the games, and of not being intimidated by anyone. He conveyed having more than held his own against Jimmy Butler in the playoffs. Concerning leadership, he specifically brought up being a leader on defense (he conveyed he'd done this in Boston), partly by talking a lot (by organizing the defense). He mentioned Stanley Johnson specifically, referring to his impact on younger players.

Quite a statement by Bradley, self-assuming a/the mantle of leadership. Reggie seemed to convey an alternative model (from a couple of seasons ago).

Taking leadership as the new guy, particularly as one who may be leaving in a year, is tricky. Bradley did mention some things that I believe are in range at once as a potential leader: 1) working hard every day in preparation, 2) showing consistent effort on the floor, 3) not being intimidated by stars, 4) being available as mentor to young players, and 5) communicating a lot on defense, facilitating its organization. All that doesn't necessarily equate to being acknowledged as the leader in the locker room, but it really moves Bradley in that direction, unless there an adverse reaction (who's this guy who may walk out on us next year?), or a battle for leadership (AD/RJ), or if Bradley can't stay on the floor due to extended injury.

btw, on the topic of leadership:

Former Houston coach McHale: Harden's not a leader.
Harden in response: He's a clown.
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UM

Post  Sparma on Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:41 am

Really rough loss by the Wolverines. Is Dantonio a coaching genius, last year notwithstanding? Dang, he's now won 8 of 11 vs UM. Looks like we can expect a struggling O, along with a great D, moving forward. The coaching staff's got its work cut out for it the rest of the year.
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Should have said Go Green...

Post  Oracle on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:28 am

Michigan's defense played well enough to win, but unfortunately State's defense did exactly the same.

The difference was that Michigan't offense just couldn't generate enough points early and State did.

Not the result I wanted, but a great game. Michigan's season is on life support nationally right now!
WTF wrote:How could I forget to say GO BLUE!!!!!!  dance banana guitar hehe box pom pom party Bow Down TT toast
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More Stuff

Post  WTF on Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:06 pm

How could I forget to say GO BLUE!!!!!!  dance banana guitar hehe box pom pom party Bow Down TT toast
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Mr Kennard and Stuff

Post  WTF on Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:42 pm

What I've liked so far with Kennard in 2 preseason games so far is that he doesn't turn the ball over.  Eventually his shot will come around but he plays smart and don't panic.  He doesn't look bad on his shot he's just missing right now I'm still confident. 

Ellenson also looks good offensively it seems hard to believe SVG will ice him out of the rotation but I wouldn't be shocked if he does.  I would also like to see SVG give Andre another game off just to see more of Moreland.

BTW Reggie is not hurt SVG is talking with some team (don't know who) about moving RJ.  The conversation has been going on for awhile and likely intensified once RJ was declared healthy. I think the hold out is to avoid any risk of injury while talks are going on.  If I had to guess RJ will be packaged with Boban for a legit starting PF and Harris will be moved back to starting SF.
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Good article on SVG's thoughts about limiting position changing this season with Ellenson and Johnson

Post  cool breeze on Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:33 pm

While beating up on SVG in my last post I tend to agree with him on the idea that both Johnson and Ellenson need some consistency this season to keep their confidence level high. Playing with confidence is key to success in any sport but is especially true when playing offense in basketball. Ellenson and Johnson are not going away anytime soon. They along with Kennard should grow a lot in the next two years. However, I still think there will be times this year where at least on defense, both Ellenson and Johnson will be needed at times to play another position. Johnson might have to matchup against Love when the Pistons and Cars meet. Ellenson could be called into action if Boban and Moreland cannot play well enough to be trusted in crunch time on defense. But overall I agree with SVG with his idea that it would be best if both players can settle down and become comfortable at one position. The cool thing for me is how Henry is fighting to earn a spot in the rotation. Also, Kennard is going to be a fun player to watch this season and he is earning his spot in the rotation and has been helped out because of Bullock's knee issues. SVG might be forced to play his young guns and the fans will love it regardless of the outcome of the games.

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SVG's post game comments on Moreland. Is he trying to make up excuses for why he will not play him in the regular season?

Post  cool breeze on Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:52 am

When was the last time that SVG looked that close to pick out errors or omissions from a big man that he has coached since becoming the Piston head coach? Moreland had lapses and he didn't run the court fast enough. Oh really. Why was SVG silent last season when AD jogged up and down the hardwood in all of those loses? It appears that Moreland did exactly what I expected he would do if he got a fair chance. Moreland is so much better as a defender than AD it is silly. My bet is that if Moreland had grabbed 30 rebounds in that game, SVG would have found some reason to find fault with him. But watch when Boban drags his slow feet up and down the court and averages 2 defensive rebounds over the first 30 regular season games. Will SVG make any negative comments? I expect that the center position will be occupied by AD, Boban and Leuer. Minutes are determined by contracts according to the world of SVG.

And notice the comments on Ellenson. Ellenson has a nice game and SVG chimes in saying well we have some real studs playing exceptionally well right now who play power forward. In other words, don't count on Ellenson being a big part of this year's team. SVG has so much talent at the power forward spot there will be no room for Ellenson. Remember that dreary season last year. SVG made no changes in his rotation with the exception of moving Harris to the bench to prove that Leuer was worth $10M. This is the NBA where nothing ever makes sense because management must cover up for their mistakes by playing those who have the biggest contracts. Based on last season's mindless foolishness where it appeared children were running the Piston organization and doing the right thing was never an option, I have no confidence that the best players will be on the floor much of the time. SVG will do his best to breakdown guys like Moreland instead of building him up so he will play with heart. Moreland is a guy who plays 50% better when he knows his coach has his back. SVG will instead give AD a long leash along with his other star players, Boban and Leuer. I am happy that Jon Leuer did bring it last night. He is a real athlete and does try to play the right way. But he will have trouble earning that 10M.

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Re: FORUM

Post  Murph on Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:42 am

Oracle, thanks for the observations.   I'm not a big Ish Smith fan, but I wonder if the lineup wouldn't be more stable if Smith started, and Jackson came off the bench to contribute as many minutes as he can, without reinjuring his knee.  Smith is a stable, known quantity.  Jackson with his knee is a big question mark.

A longer term solution might be for Bradley to start at PG, and Kennard to start at SG, but for now, Smith is probably the safest bet.

I don't understand why SVG is starting two SFs, when he has 4 competent PFs coming off the bench.  Is SJ that good on defense?  He is a game changer on D?  Because he's sure underwhelming offensively and on the boards.
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I don't have much time, but a few observations...

Post  Oracle on Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:20 pm

The top stories tonight from my biased perspective(the game is all but over).

1. Ellenson is beating the crap out of Leuer for that starting position, IMO. He looks more fluid and just a better player.
2. Stanley is getting it a lot more. nothing outstanding, just an observation.
3. Moreland may beat out Boban if he keeps this up. he may never score as much, but he's a demon on the boards, and with some more work, could be an intimidator.
4. Forgot 1 thing: Tolliver was GREAT tonight, his effect was REAL Smile 

Bradley got off to a very slow start but came on to lead along with Harris, we'll likely see a lot of that this season(if Reggie stops dribbling).

Kennard also got off to a slow start, missing everything, but later found the range a bit.

This was close until the 2nd half, but the Hawks are terrible, IMO. I expected us to crush them and they did.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:52 pm

deusXango wrote:Pre-season is a time for player evaluations, but with the strangeness of the Pistons regression last year, the Pistons  pre-season is for coaching evaluations also. The decision making of a great coach is as important as the X's and O's and with Drummond expected to miss tonight's game, who starts at center is an important decision, especially since this game doesn't count on the season; will it be Boban (who's as game ready as can be) or will it be Leuer who SVG "see as a starter in this league?"

Who starts tonight is a clear indication of where SVG's head is at in terms of his rotation; if his mind is made up now, where's the room for open competitiveness? Drummond and Jackson are locks to start, as is Bradley at SG, but absent Andre and Reggie, Bradley is stuck at SG more than a lock...what, no room for Kennard to start and Bradley can't show his combo guard skills by starting at PG? These games don't count, but they damn sure matter to SVG. Even the most casual fans want to see Boban in a starting role, but if we get Leuer as a starter, well......

If we are going with a small set of forwards, wouldn't this be the perfect time to see how Bullock and Harris play together? I don't think we should be stuck on SJ and Harris at this point; sure, I'd be okay with Bullock and Harris, but I'd really, really, love to see Harris and Ellenson as our starting forwards. If our coach decided to start and play the players for one game, instead of the "money men," that'd be an indication, to me at least, that ego and stubbornness no longer poisons our brain trust. We've got a better team, now all we need is better coaching.

dX SVG has been very protective of Boban. He has mentioned several times that Boban is a very tired individual because of all those minutes he played on his Euro ball team. SVG paid a lot of money that surprised his former head coach with the Spurs. Leuer, Smith and Boban were all paid way more money than they were worth on the open market. Did any other GM make an offer for any of them and if so how much were their offers? Maybe SVG must really believe that no NBA player who has made an NBA roster before wants to play in Detroit. To get them there he must over pay them three times their real value. Did Leuer's agent tell SVG my player doesn't want to play for the Pistons. That is his last choice. You will have to offer Jon $10 mil a season to get him. Meanwhile, the Suns had no interest in signing Leuer for $1M. They thought Dudley was much better coming off the bench. So just how did Jeff and Stan come up with that number for Leuer? And who wanted Boban other than as a side show to throw out on the court after the Spurs rotation players had built up a huge lead.

Must be Moreland is not making a good impression so far so maybe playing really well in the Summer league games meant nothing. Leuer starting at center to me means that SVG is preparing fans to get ready to see a lot of losses. You have identified something significant dX. SVG mentioned possibly using Leuer at center earlier in the summer. I thought he might be joking. If Leuer is a better choice at center than Boban and Ellenson he must have gained 30 pounds. Love is moving over to center with the Cavs. Must be SVG is thinking about that. Is Jon Leuer SVG's secret weapon this season? He is athletic at least and I hope Jon can become a successful player because the center position might be the weakest position on the Piston team this year. If AD actually decides to put in an honest effort on the defensive end this year, he is going to be in foul trouble a lot. He is just not fundamentally sound. So the option for him to play hard and accumulate a lot of fouls or become a slacker again. Maybe SVG told him to do a lot of slacking last season on defense to avoid foul trouble.

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I haven't seen the team play yet so will not make knee jerk statements on who should start. Maybe others should do the same yet it is funny that Leuer will be the staring center tonight

Post  cool breeze on Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:22 pm

Pre season means next to nothing when it comes to predicting how vets who have been in the league for 2 or more seasons will play in the regular season. I attended a Suns pre season game that was held in Tucson a few years back and noticed that none of the vets were paying much attention to the game when they sat for almost the entire affair. This is a good time for rookies and younger players who haven't been battle tested to get their licks in. So when fans say that guy didn't look that great or just looked average referring to Harris and Bradley of all players, then it was most likely true but those guys just don't want to risk an injury playing in a meaningless game. And the coaches are not interested in any of their key players scoring 30 points in a pre season game. So AD and RJ will take the night off and most of the vets might play as well but they will also be taking the game lightly. Yet already some fans don't want Johnson to start. How does anyone know that he hasn't earned a starting job? I just don't get it. Does Leuer, Ellenson, Tolliver deserve a starting role? In my opinion only two players, Bradley and Harris have earned starting positions. Andre Drummond sure hasn't earned his place in the starting lineup based on his play during the entire last half of last season. Reggie Jackson hasn't earned a starters job. He should be the 3rd point guard at this moment in time. I can keep going down the list if you want.

This roster is full of players who need to prove themselves this season. If they don't, then their stock will drop big time. I have big questions relating to Boban's ability to play basketball at NBA level. Leuer was so weak on defense playing power forward , how can the coach expect him to be successful at the center position. Is Moreland that bad? Is Ellenson that bad? I will at least admit that I know next to nothing that has gone on at the Piston facility over the summer and in training camp so far. For some reason SVG thinks Leuer can play center. Wish I could see the game to figure out why he thinks that way.

One big piece of news is that Bullock has a knee issue with major swelling. That is not good news. Many of us were hoping he would finally have better luck with the injury bug. So some of you who are already determined that Stanley Johnson should not be a starter need to start looking at the players on this roster and figure out who might be more deserving. Of course you have all attended every practice and watched all of the games last season so you have it down better than I do. I just know that at one point in Johnson's life he was able to play 5 different positions and he played them all well. The coach could pencil him in wherever he could cause the most trouble for the opposition and he was able to be the best player on 4 championship teams in high school. I know high school doesn't mean much but I saw Johnson in two of those games and he was over powering and stood out much like Labron did when he played in that McDonald's All Star game. Last season Johnson was broken by his coach. And he was greatly affected by the results of the players only meeting where all of the players with the exception of Reggie and Andre learned that the head coach was not interested in the team playing the right way. Johnson has put in a lot of work over the summer and he is determined to be successful no matter what his coach does this time around. SVG is not a bad guy. But he knows how to breakdown young players and then build them back the way he wants them. Some of his former players will testify to that and thank him for it. Last season Johnson had no plays called for him and was told to stand beyond the 3 point line and watch the point guards dribble around the perimeter. He was almost in shock when he did get to touch the ball. He was told to change his jump shot in training camp. There are a lot of things that went wrong for Johnson last season. Please keep an open mind..

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Stuff...

Post  Oracle on Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:51 pm

@DX - Well, you can start fussing at SVG right now. Here's the low down for tonight.

http://www.nba.com/pistons/features/no-jackson-no-drummond-pistons-host-atlanta-2nd-preseason-game wrote:Ish Smith again will start for Jackson and Jon Leuer will start for Drummond. Tobias Harris, Stanley Johnson and Avery Bradley remain the other starters. Van Gundy wants to get looks at two players who didn’t play in Wednesday’s opener, Eric Moreland at center and Anthony Tolliver at power forward.
Stanley: I won't comment, but here's what they're saying, and it's interesting.
http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2017/10/06/detroit-pistons-stanley-johnson/738878001/?src=rss wrote:ESPN.com posted an article Thursday to project breakout candidates from the 2015 draft class.
The author mentioned how pro personnel representatives view Johnson’s potential at power forward.

“There's no question he needs to play with more steady toughness and shoot the ball better, but NBA teams would be wise to monitor Johnson closely moving forward, seeing him as more of a power wing and small-ball 4 than he has played in Detroit,” ESPN.com draft analyst Mike Schmitz wrote.

He also wrote how Johnson’s physical dimensions fit today’s style of play.

“Only so many 6-foot-6, 240-pounders with a 7-foot wingspan exist, and very few have the offensive potential and defensive versatility that Johnson has shown flashes of,” Schmitz wrote.
Side Note: For all of you Injured Reserve Lovers, Reggie Bullock is out with a knee injury already, yup, he'll make a great starter Smile Nothing like a new contract to bring on the pain... it's Miller Time...
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A poor blade only cuts one way

Post  deusXango on Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:12 pm

Pre-season is a time for player evaluations, but with the strangeness of the Pistons regression last year, the Pistons pre-season is for coaching evaluations also. The decision making of a great coach is as important as the X's and O's and with Drummond expected to miss tonight's game, who starts at center is an important decision, especially since this game doesn't count on the season; will it be Boban (who's as game ready as can be) or will it be Leuer who SVG "see as a starter in this league?"

Who starts tonight is a clear indication of where SVG's head is at in terms of his rotation; if his mind is made up now, where's the room for open competitiveness? Drummond and Jackson are locks to start, as is Bradley at SG, but absent Andre and Reggie, Bradley is stuck at SG more than a lock...what, no room for Kennard to start and Bradley can't show his combo guard skills by starting at PG? These games don't count, but they damn sure matter to SVG. Even the most casual fans want to see Boban in a starting role, but if we get Leuer as a starter, well......

If we are going with a small set of forwards, wouldn't this be the perfect time to see how Bullock and Harris play together? I don't think we should be stuck on SJ and Harris at this point; sure, I'd be okay with Bullock and Harris, but I'd really, really, love to see Harris and Ellenson as our starting forwards. If our coach decided to start and play the players for one game, instead of the "money men," that'd be an indication, to me at least, that ego and stubbornness no longer poisons our brain trust. We've got a better team, now all we need is better coaching.
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Murph & DX

Post  Oracle on Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:24 pm

deusXango wrote:
Murph wrote:If I were SVG, I would not start SJ.  Van Gundy has several better options at the forward spot than SJ.  I'd move Harris to SF, and start Ellenson, Leuer or even Tolliver or Moreland at PF.  Moving Harris to SF and starting another PF, makes the lineup bigger and stronger and better on the boards.
I stand firmly with Murph on this. To the naysayers, I suggest, for your kind consideration; this is not a contending team, but a team in the rebuilding/developing mode. We should stop following clown ass SVG's subtle suggestions that our hope lies in the 8th seed and making the playoffs...that'll save his job, but it won't satisfy the fans who're expecting basketball excellence (contending for championships).

Stanley Johnson should earn a starting spot and not be given one by default...because Morris is gone naming him a starter is by default. The other option, which I hate to entertain, is that over the summer he learned to kiss Van Gundy's ass and now his ineptitude will be tolerated (Andre, Reggie J., and Leuer as examples) and free passes will be given. IMHO Ellenson has done more this offseason to earn a starting look at a forward spot, plus he and Harris make more sense than any other combination.

Wise, I'm working beads(this may be a dumb question, but what are beads?) waiting for this trade you predicted and I hope it happens soon...I think this sore cojones that Reggie is experiencing is really a stall to being traded. Speaking of trades, I'm still hoping Jon Leuer is traded while he still has some value...he's in the way of development as much as Reggie is and he doesn't stand out in any area of basketball (I've never heard him being mentioned as a leader on this team, not once!). Reggie and Jon should harvest something the Pistons can use to get better...sitting around in the red, white, and blue won't do anything but stifle our hopes of getting significantly better.
Murph is on to something! Stanley may make his move this season, but he'll get the same minutes whether he starts or not, and Murph makes a GREAT case for him not starting, and here's why.

1. My biggest objection to Bradley has been his size. If we surround him with bigger players, that mitigates the size factor and makes me a lot more comfortable.
2. I talked about winning matchups, and Harris played out of position at the 4 isn't as big an advantage as Harris, with his size playing at the 3. IMO, he wins more matchups there, even if he's more challenged defensively at the 3.
3. This is what SVG has driven me to and I don't like to say this, but starting Stanley may give SVG the ammunition to sit him again. The leash won't be long, and building him up, only to tear him down will cause team problems. Better to let him, as DX said, earn it off the bench IMO.

I used to really love to hear SVG speak but now I can't stand to hear him speak, he just sounds like a liar now, I've lost trust in him. I hope he can turn this around and win me back, but right now, I don't have a good feeling about him and I don't like that.

Ellenson vs Leuer: From the limited sample I saw, Leuer was the best PF on the floor in the first game. When I said Ellenson played great, I grade youngsters on a different curve. When Kennard and Ellenson play at the level of an NBA scrub, I call it great considering their experience, because it shows maturity. When Leuer plays like a scrub, that's bad, considering where he should be. But he did play a very good game and impressed me, the question is can he keep it up.

So I wouldn't think of starting Ellenson just yet, like Stanley, he will appreciate it a lot more if he wins the position. However if Leuer is traded, that's a different story.

Trading Reggie: I wouldn't hold my breath! Nobody wants to buy a pig in a poke(whatever that means Smile). He's not been seen playing in damn near a year, and he's got another injury where nobody seems to be able to tell you when he's coming back? Not trading material to me, but you never know.
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Damn, there's so much wisdom packed in there Murph!

Post  deusXango on Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:08 pm

Murph wrote:If I were SVG, I would not start SJ.  Van Gundy has several better options at the forward spot than SJ.  I'd move Harris to SF, and start Ellenson, Leuer or even Tolliver or Moreland at PF.  Moving Harris to SF and starting another PF, makes the lineup bigger and stronger and better on the boards.
I stand firmly with Murph on this. To the naysayers, I suggest, for your kind consideration; this is not a contending team, but a team in the rebuilding/developing mode. We should stop following clown ass SVG's subtle suggestions that our hope lies in the 8th seed and making the playoffs...that'll save his job, but it won't satisfy the fans who're expecting basketball excellence (contending for championships).

Stanley Johnson should earn a starting spot and not be given one by default...because Morris is gone naming him a starter is by default. The other option, which I hate to entertain, is that over the summer he learned to kiss Van Gundy's ass and now his ineptitude will be tolerated (Andre, Reggie J., and Leuer as examples) and free passes will be given. IMHO Ellenson has done more this offseason to earn a starting look at a forward spot, plus he and Harris make more sense than any other combination.

Wise, I'm working beads waiting for this trade you predicted and I hope it happens soon...I think this sore cojones that Reggie is experiencing is really a stall to being traded. Speaking of trades, I'm still hoping Jon Leuer is traded while he still has some value...he's in the way of development as much as Reggie is and he doesn't stand out in any area of basketball (I've never heard him being mentioned as a leader on this team, not once!). Reggie and Jon should harvest something the Pistons can use to get better...sitting around in the red, white, and blue won't do anything but stifle our hopes of getting significantly better.
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Forwards

Post  Murph on Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:51 am

If I were SVG, I would not start SJ. Van Gundy has several better options at the forward spot than SJ. I'd move Harris to SF, and start Ellenson, Leuer or even Tolliver or Moreland at PF. Moving Harris to SF and starting another PF, makes the lineup bigger and stronger and better on the boards.

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From What I See

Post  BallinD on Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:05 am

On the topic of Leadership, it seems, maybe patterns are emerging: Shocked

...Tolliver is clearly in a leadership role and may hold onto that, or at least a piece of it even as the season progresses.
...Bradley clearly appears to be leading by example to change the entire culture of the team.
...But Dre if he plays hard and dunks on opponents heads, and he continues to talks like he believes he is that team leader guy "My Team" type player who buys into defense, then he could possibly co lead with Bradley.
...Weggie appears to be the cheerleader. dance

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My Two Cents For The Day

Post  WTF on Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:00 am

Andre contract provides that illusion that he's the leader as well as SVG ignorance to label him Franchise/ Then add to that SVG reluctances to handle RJ appropriately (trading or benching) him.  In order for Bradley to become a leader both AD and RJ will need to take a step back and it likely won't happen.


The moment Moose walked AD immediately proclaimed himself the Self Appointed Leader sadly he hasn't lead or carried this team yet.  IMO if SVG had a half of brain he would have been trying to figure out how to turn KCP into the next D-Wade oppose to trying to make AD the next Howard.

Also rest assure that the more the young players gravitate towards Bradley the more unhappy both AD and RJ will become and the player only meetings will start.

1. RJ  thinks he should be getting what AD makes there's some quiet hate there so don't be fooled.
2. AD will start scapegoating the team perhaps Harris this time around since both Morris and KCP are gone now. Weird how your 2 best defenders are gone.
3. 1 and 2 won't happen if SVG grows a pair and trade RJ before the season starts (I think he will) but  facepalm
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:34 pm

Oracle wrote:You said a lot of things that I have high hopes are true. I also believe that Stanley is ready to take the next step and you can tell that from the way he is thinking. I saw the same Stanley last night, but that wasn't a bad thing. I saw a player that played within himself, and he needs to do that before spreading his wings a bit more, so I'm with you there.

However, what you said in the title is the absolute LAST thing I hope will happen!

You don't need to convince people that on a clear day, the sky is blue... It's visibly obvious!

Nobody should force or try to force Bradley down players throats, if he is the person that you describe, it's going to be obvious. Leadership like Zeke's & Chauncey's and even Ben, is EARNED, not declared or decreed!

Just relax and let it happen naturally...

You are correct Oracle. Nobody should force any one player down other players throats. The young talented players really appreciate Avery Bradley being on this team. Nobody would have to force anything. But last season that is exactly what happened when the owner and SVG forced Andre Drummond down everyone's throat. I love that expression you provided. That is what pissed me off the most about Piston management. Did AD want to be the team leader? He has never been a team leader. But because the owner forked out over 20M he thought that is the way things should be and wouldn't you know it, SVG went right with that program. Even after AD botched things up when he told what went on in the players only meeting which no team leader should ever do if he wants the respect of his teammates, SVG created even more drama when he came to AD's aid being he was Piston management's not the roster players leader and backed up AD and instructed the players that there would be no additional players only meeting allowed. I don't want that type of nonsense from Piston management this year. If it is up to the players not SVG, then Avery Bradley will be the team leader. He is the logical choice. If the players decide on someone else then so be it but I only wrote that post to say someone is watching you SVG. The players need to pick their leader not the owner or the head coach/President. SVG knows better than that. He should have listened to his Father who would never do that type of thing even if the owner threatened to fire him. I have this special relationship with our franchise player Stan. I own the team so I think we need to make AD our team leader. OK your the boss. Was it the simple? Made no sense at all. And Reggie is no leader either. He needs to be managed by a good team leader so he will share the basketball more. If Reggie wants to be the team leader than he better show that he is willing to give an honest effort on defense.

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Don

Post  Oracle on Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:28 pm

You said a lot of things that I have high hopes are true. I also believe that Stanley is ready to take the next step and you can tell that from the way he is thinking. I saw the same Stanley last night, but that wasn't a bad thing. I saw a player that played within himself, and he needs to do that before spreading his wings a bit more, so I'm with you there.

However, what you said in the title is the absolute LAST thing I hope will happen!

You don't need to convince people that on a clear day, the sky is blue... It's visibly obvious!

Nobody should force or try to force Bradley down players throats, if he is the person that you describe, it's going to be obvious. Leadership like Zeke's & Chauncey's and even Ben, is EARNED, not declared or decreed!

Just relax and let it happen naturally...
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This is Avery Bradley's team and the coach needs to promote that idea more

Post  cool breeze on Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:14 pm

Just got through taking to a friend who knows Stanley Johnson. Avery Bradley is having a very positive impact on this Piston roster. He plays the right way all of the time and his teammates notice and admire his work ethic and knowledge of the game. Piston management needs to do everything they can to sign Bradley after this season. Although I have not had the opportunity to see our Pistons play, it is clear that there is a different vibe going on in Piston land. This is not Reggie Jackson's team although I hope he can come back healthy and have a great season. When our Pistons started winning in different eras, we all knew that those teams were led by Zeke and Chauncey. Bradley has all the tools to be a good leader. He plays with courage with a high basketball IQ. He is ready to play every game mentally. He has the most playoff experience of any player on the roster. His defense aggressiveness is outstanding. And Avery is a great communicator. Without a solid leader, NBA teams flounder and are soon forgotten. Somehow Piston management got involved is determining who would lead and based it on the amount of their contracts. AD and RJ were the designated leaders. RJ couldn't lead because he was hurt and is also an embarrassment when he plays defense. AD just hasn't yet figured out how to play basketball the right way and learn all there is to playing with consistency especially on defense. By allowing such a player to be called the team leader shows how inept of a coach SVG was last season. As we attempt to shed our memories of the inept coaching and game preparation and execution by SVG's chosen players, we must watch closely to see if management interferes with the team chemistry that has already formed between the younger players and Avery Bradley. Tolliver will also back them up because he doesn't want a repeat of AD's attempts to lead this team into darkness. It will be necessary for Reggie Jackson to accept his role on the team and to follow the lead of Avery Bradley's idea as to how the game should be played. Avery's vision does not include allowing the point guard to hog the basketball. The point guard's role on this team should be to help make Reggie's teammates more successful by sharing the basketball and placing teammates in positions that will allow them to be involved in the offense.

I think differently that some of you fans. I believe that Bradley and Harris will clutch heroic players this season. And Johnson if healthy will emerge as a beast around mid season being that glue type player who does all the dirty work necessary on both ends of the floor. Johnson is not a dumb player. He has a really high basketball IQ. Once he gets a few good games under his belt and the team starts winning consistently, Johnson is a player everyone will love. He will and can do the impossible. Bradley will get Johnson, Kennard and Ellenson so jacked up they will forget that they are playing in the NBA which means they will be going all out to win.

This is the season for the Pistons as a team to eliminate "SLACKING". Some players got really good at slacking and it is a habit that is hard to break especially with players who have 5 or more years of experience at doing it on a regular basis. "NO SLACKING PLEASE". I hope some Piston fan holds a sign up when the regular season starts. Maybe fans should have reminded the Piston coaching staff last season to watch for slacking. SVG saw it at least one time even with his blinders on as his mind wandered at times while contemplating politics instead of what was going on in the games. Or was SVG day dreaming about the 4 out 1 in offense too much to concentrate on what was happening on defense. But SVG did identify issues more than once. Yes AD when the coach tells you that you didn't look "engaged" he meant that you were caught slacking and not earning that $20M you got. So we will be watching. I can't imagine that Bradley will allow such behavior if he is the team leader. Last season a "SLACKER" was appointed team captain by the head coach. Has that ever happened before?

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Re: FORUM

Post  Oracle on Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:05 am

cool breeze wrote:
Oracle wrote:I observed a few things about this game.

1. Kennard, while not great, was great for a freaking rookie. Loved the way he took 2 pointers when his deep ball wasn't working
2. Galloway looks decent
3. This is the gang that can't shoot straight, a paltry 29% from deep(3), 69% from the charity stripe WTF???
4. Stanley doesn't look any better and did about what he normally does with big minutes
5. Harris and Bradley look fairly pedestrian.
6. Drummond looked the same, but 6 of 8 from the FT line is AWESOME!!! he certainly didn't pull that FT average down tonight!!!

But it was only the first preseason game, so a lot can and will change for the better.

LCA records its first Piston loss!

Thanks for the report Oracle. How did Ellenson look?  AD 6 for 8 at the line. It is time to celebrate. Has his technique changed? Did you attend the game?
Ellenson looked great, I forgot to mention that. Evidently he looked good enough that I don't believe Tolliver got off the pine, which is fine by me at this point.

Andre's FT shooting looks the same, just a straighter shot, meaning that it doesn't go wide like it used to. 6/8 is fantastic, I'd settle for 50% and call it a win.

I saw the game on league pass, so that exposes me as believing that we will do good this year. I only get it when I want to keep an eye on our competitors because we're in contention, plus I like the ability to watch games on the internet when I can't get home or to a TV.

If Reggie misses the preseason, I will start to worry a bit, but after watching, I see that once we can get the chemistry going, we may be alright.

I was concerned about the 3 point shooting because as I've said, it may be SVG's offense that generates these bad 3 point shots, but it's too early to tell.
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Perhaps Maybe Almost

Post  WTF on Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:41 am

Oracle wrote:
WTF wrote:
Oracle wrote:Secondly, while we could contend with 15 players that are hard working and team oriented, we'd likely get frustrated because they would be the Toronto Raptors. Good enough to be pesky, but not really good enough to beat the better teams. There's simply no substitute for TALENT!

Isn't this the exact kind of team that took us too the Finals in both 2004 and 2005 and ran off 7 or 8 ECF visits from 2002 to 2009?  I see some comparable pieces on the team right now to what we had during that stretch if used and coached properly.   

We shouldn't be solely relying on Reggie and Andre  the talent separation is that huge from the rest of the team Bradley and Harris aren't scrubs.
I was thinking the same thing when I first read your comment, but didn't say anything after I thought about it.

No, Harris & Bradley aren't scrubs, but they aren't that good either.

They aren't as good as any two of the top 4 teams in the conference, Wall & Beal, or anybody else.

That 2004 team was talent loaded with high picks and great talent in general!


Of course in this teams current state they're no where close to a 2004 team.  I just honestly believe that a collection of fundamentally sound players out trumps talent at least when it comes to the Pistons especially the "Goin To Work" team.

When I think about Chauncey and the crew they were more fundamentally sound then they were talented.  Then tack on that they played hard with a great deal of confidence they've became winners.   But they were flawed but most times played within their limitations,  example Chauncey wasn't the quickest or most athletic PG of his time and an average defender to boot but he became an AS because he played smart.

Another example would be Big Ben he doesn't have the offensive talent as AD likely a worst FT shooter but we all know who was the better center.  If AD had the will and desire of Big Ben forget 2 levels he would be off the chart.  

Admittedly we did a have some former Top 10 picks on the team (CB, Sheed, Corliss and Rip)  I think everyone else deep in the 1st or 2nd rounds hell was Big Ben even drafted.  

I think Bradley and Harris and other comparable talent players like them can collectively win just like the Goin To Work crew did.
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Re: FORUM

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