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DRAT

Post  Murph on Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:11 pm

"And really, really, really, they need to scrap this Defensive Rating metric, if it actually somehow rated AD as leading the NBA in defensive rating last year...Shame!"

I didn't even realize Drummond led the league in defensive rating last year.  Impressive.

I don't think there's any esoteric formula behind the DRAT figure.  It's a straightforward number indicating how many points on average opponents score per 100 possessions when specific players are in the game.

The fact that teams scored the fewest number of points per 100 possessions when Drummond was in the game for Detroit last year is an indication just how important rebounding is..  It's not the Drummond is a great defender; Drummond is a great rebounder.  By rebounding, Drummond keeps the ball out of the hands of the other team.  And needless to say, it's impossible to score when you don't have possession of the ball, which explains Dummond's outstanding DRAT numbers.

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Yes and Phuque No!

Post  BallinD on Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:40 pm

WTF wrote:Really doesn't matter how much SVG trust him right now just know that he can't get there if you don't play him.  I'm just confused that with all the clear and visible talent and fundamental of this kid why he doesn't get PT every night period be it 20 minutes or 5 minutes. 

It's clear this kid is special and rare so don't freaking mess this up just freaking play him.  You have three positions (PG, SG, and SF) where you could give this kid minutes.   How nice it would have been to go with a bigger line up last night using Kennard at PG and sliding SJ and Harris into the SG and SF position.  

Don't be a doofus just play him.
 Preaching to the Choir.  Play him, play more three-guard lineups.
Do it!  We know he is a doofus, but I'm actually surprised he is playing him this much.  Your recommendation is spot on!

On Moose, Phuque No!  Does he protect the rim?  We need either a rim protector or a shooter.  He is neither!  I can't get the fascination with his potential return.  If it is instant offense off the bench, Boban is a better answer and will block shots at the rim.

Can Moose hit a shot? other than a layup or a long layup?  The only thing he can do is get to the foul line and rebound a bit.  Does he go hard?  No!  A better coach than SVG threw him away, but also was smart enough to find a return in value for him.  Stupid Van Gundy. We need to be collecting picks, rather than throwing them away!

And really, really, really, they need to scrap this Defensive Rating metric, if it actually somehow rated AD as leading the NBA in defensive rating last year...Shame!
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Last comment for the day - Slack coaching discipline relating to telling Reggie Jackson who is in charge and what he needs to do to start a half court offense

Post  cool breeze on Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:40 am

SVG wants his starters to play more of an up tempo style after opposing teams make shots. One bad habit that the coaching staff has failed to break involving Reggie Jackson's lackluster walk up the court after the ball is inbounded. I think many of you know what Reggie is doing while the seconds tick off the shot clock as Reggie slowly walks while dribbling the basketball up to half court. Reggie is coasting or trying to rest a bit and every team in the league loves it when he does it. Opposing players get a nice rest while Reggie does that. How he gets away with it is amazing to me. Maybe Labron does that when he plays point guard. I get that because Labron plays really hard on the defensive end. He needs the rest. But Reggie gives very little effort on defense and then does a slow walk before attacking the opposing defense. The point guard is supposed to be alert at all times not resting. The point guard is supposed to get the damn ball to a wing player quickly on either side of the court. Whoever is open on either wing should be getting the ball within at least the first 6 seconds off the shot clock. It gets really bad in crunch time when Reggie walks the ball up the court and then doesn't make one pass at all while trying to score against 5 opposing players. Somehow he can pull that trick off at times but in the long run, his success will be about 15% as the season moves forward and opposing teams know what is going to happen. The Pistons are an up tempo team and the head of the snake is playing a slow down half court type game looking for a pick and roll opportunity. Everyone knows it is coming. There are no surprises with the Pistons.

The other huge error occurs with both Jackson and Smith at the end of a quarter when Detroit has the last possession. Why is it that no play is even attempted in those situations. Every time the Pistons get the last opportunity either Smith or Jackson go solo against all five defenders. Are either of our point guards that good? Can the team not run a set play that involves more than one players. I think that the team has failed to score in those situations 90% of the time so far. My question is what in hell are the coaches doing in practice to create a better opportunity for the last shot at the end of a quarter? who has control of what is going to happen in those situations relating to team strategy? It seems either the coaches are completely ineffective or the point guards are not coachable. Take your pick. As the season moves on watch to see if anything changes. It didn't last season. Meanwhile I see Luke Walton's team actually running something a bit more complex. Brad Stevens also has plays for those situations too. I can't imagine that SVG doesn't work with his players on last possessions. I would say that Smith does this more than Reggie. I always know that there is no chance in hell that the Pistons are going to make a basketball to end a quarter if given the opportunity on a side out of bounds or an inbound play under the basket. It will be Smith trying to do the impossible or Reggie doing that same thing. Labron might be able to do that type of thing but come on this is pretty lame SVG. Is our coach a figure head or a real coach?

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:47 am

Murph wrote:
WTF wrote:
DX I almost fill you on this but maybe for different reason or perhaps the same reasons.  I did think about the pros and cons of such a move and the cons kind of out weighed any pros.

Cons
1. I wouldn't include a  1st round drafted pick but would be willing to offer up Boban along with JL and maybe a 2nd round pick. 
2. Not sure what's going with him health wise and there's no Kander here to fix whatever is wrong.
3. There has to be something seriously going on beyond health as well that you would sit a player making 17 million a season as the Bucks did and now the Suns are open to trading him.  
4. Will he be willing to accept a bench role? I think so if he's gathered anything from the tough lessons he just received from both the Bucks and Suns.  

Pros
1. One if healthy I think he's a better than both Boban and JL and makes the team that more versatile because he's a definite low post option.  I think the team has morphed into far different team since he's left and he might be more suited now.
2. Not sure but I think his contract is up after this season or next so what do we have to lose, it not like we're giving up much to get him. I think there's adequate shooting on the team now that we don't have to rely on him being able to hit mid-range shots
3. Could be a great comeback story if he actually come back and contribute to a winning seasons and playoff run.


Cons

1.  There is no way the Suns are going to take back Leuer AND Boban.  Those are SVG's two worst contracts.
2.  Monroe is healthy.  He started last night for the Suns, played 26 minutes, and had 20 pts, 11 rbds and 2 stls.
3.  See above.
4.  Yes, Monroe would have to come off the bench, like he did in Milwaukee.


Pros

1.  Monroe is healthy.  
2.  Yes, his contract is up at the end of the season, so there's no risk of taking on a bad contract.  In fact, we would get rid of a bad contract (Leuer's).
3.  Yes, it would be a great success story.

How about trading AD for Monroe and two Suns first round picks? We keep our pick and get perhaps a top pick to draft a center and point guard. Both AD and Monroe are below average defenders and our team needs at least one starter who is a rim and paint protector in the long run to win anything. Maybe swap the Suns first round pick Jackson for Johnson if the Suns were interested in improving their defense that might make the deal work. We lose a $24 mil contract in the process and I think Monroe is more consistent on both ends than AD. If it doesn't work out the Pistons lose Monroe's contract. Maybe the Suns would not be interested. Their management wants to build a championship team through the draft which is what we should be doing. Again, no team can win in the playoffs without at least one big man either a power forward or center doing the hard no nonsense work it takes to protect the paint and block shots. There are not too many players who can provide that skill in today's NBA. Somehow the Pistons need to create a player like that. Neither Monroe or AD can provide that skill set. They need a big athletic defender playing next to them to make up for their unforced mental errors. The Pistons have three below average defenders in the starting lineup. Harris is one of my favorite players but he is not big enough to cover up for AD's mistakes on defense. In fact Harris has a lot of difficulty defending many power forwards as well. AD is well AD and we all know he is AWOl 70% of the time on defense. Then we have Reggie who is actually playing better defense this season but still is extremely weak and ineffective in most of his matchups. Bradley and Johnson or whoever plays small forward if you don't like Johnson have to cover for the mistakes of three starters and they cannot match up against opposing big men. At times AD switches for no reason and the result is that Bradley or Johnson are playing against a 7 footer. Pure madness. But I like the idea of trading AD for Monroe with the Pistons not giving up their first round pick. This coming year will have more really good prospects in the draft. The young players are now getting better coaching relating to defense in AAU ball. Some of the freshman in college this season surprise me as to their quick recognition skill set and how athletic they are. The players keep getting bigger and stronger when they are only 18. Crazy! I don't want the Pistons to lose out on some of those young studs.

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What Pistons management should do before the trade deadline to increase chances of becoming a top tier team

Post  cool breeze on Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:13 am

Most of us are not fooled by this great start this Piston team has had. When opposing teams start to scout the Piston roster, they will do what the Lakers did in their first meeting this season.

1. Opposing teams will find out that neither point guard on this Piston team can hold their own on defense. That is a huge weakness because of how many top tier point guards are now playing on opposing teams. And in the last meeting with the Bucks, it was clear that that team has two really good point guards although i am not really high on Bledsoe. Yet Bledsoe has the potential to become much better than either of our point guards. The Pistons lack one top tier point guard. To become a contender in today's game, most teams need two really good high basketball IQ point guards. I do not dislike
either Reggie or Ish and believe they are a better combination than the Pistons have had in recent years. Yet I do not believe the team can win a championship with them. SVG is not playing any point guards who can properly defend good NBA level point guards. Reggie has the ability but so far has not provided the extreme effort needed to achieve greatness. And he struggles running the offense that works best for this team. Smith runs the motion offense better. But as Brogdon proved in the last game, if you isolate him on Smith as Kidd was able to do, Smith just cannot match up because of his smaller size.

2. The Bucks proved that the Pistons lack a starting caliber big man who can defend the paint relating to offering a second line of defense when penetrators get close to the basket. I watch AD closely trying to figure out why he cannot figure out what he needs to do when trying to defend in the paint. Right now he looks tired much of the time and it is early in the season. He seldom sprints hard from baseline to baseline and never when he is going for offense to defense. When he gets back on defense he is slow to react and offers little to no resistance 75% of the time. It looks to me like he needs to lose at least 30 more pounds before he can reach his potential as an all around solid NBA player. Meanwhile Detroit has no power forward to accomplish the job this team needs to protect the paint when AD is in the game. The Pistons have two defective players on the defensive end in the starting unit occupying power forward and center to start games. Moreland is the best rim protector and paint protector on this team. He at least knows what to do and can anticipate how opponents are trying to score in the paint and he gets to those areas while helping teammates with their assigned opponent players. Ben Wallace was never a gifted basketball player in terms of the way many fans judge players. Most look at the scoring stats. Ben turned himself into the player the Pistons needed at the time they won the championship. Without the type of player Ben Became, Detroit could not have won much of anything. He was no offensive threat but that was OK. That team had a shot blocker and rim protector who contested every shot attempted close to the basket. Opposing teams hated playing against him. His teammates loved him. He created great team chemistry. Again there is no evidence after watching last season and so far this season that either Harris or Drummond can offer what this team has to have to become a great team. Watching AD play defense in the paint tells me that right now after watching about 12 college basketball games so far that a there are college centers who could help out Piston team much better in the area of paint defense than AD will ever be able to accomplish and they are more highly skilled shot makers. AD offers incredible offensive rebounding at times. I love it when he over powers everyone to get those rebounds. I like the fact that AD is trying harder but his recognition skill set is lacking so badly on defense that is actually gets in the way of other teammates who are trying to stop some of those easy layups and second chance close in shot attempts opponents are getting when they play the Pistons. Yet stats show that he gets his share of steals. But it actually means nothing to his team because of how many easy shots inside the paint opponents made each game. If the Pistons are going to continue to pay AD up to $25Mil a year, then they need to acquire a really big and quick defensive specialist who can play power forward next to AD. The team will have to give up scoring that a player like Harris offers but that is the only answer that I can come up with. AD will never be a threat or scare anybody who is trying to score around the rim. He just cannot react quickly enough and cannot anticipate how opponents are trying to score. I kept the Laker game and noticed how many times the Lakers picked on AD inside the paint. At the time, SVG matched up AD with Jon Leuer a lot and that was a disaster. SVG didn't seem to notice either which shows me he was completely outclassed by the Laker coaching staff. I am really impressed with Luke Walton's staff. His assistant coaches really do their homework finding defects on opponents rosters and with Ball running the point, he is able to zero in on those glaring defects. The Lakers are a young team and need a few more high basketball IQ players but they are on their way to becoming much better. It seems that SVG's staff does not do their homework from game to game and the Piston team keeps playing the same way regardless of their competition. They do not take advantage of weaknesses in opposing teams because their point guards never alter the way they run the Piston offense.

If someone disagrees with my observations than please enlighten me. This team can only go so far and for sure not to the top of the heap. I see no reason not to switch Bradley over to play point guard if Reggie Jackson can be traded before the deadline. If Piston management could score something really great by trading AD, I am for doing it this season especially because AD is building up big stats on the offensive end relating to offensive rebounds. AD is working much harder on offense this season I think because with the new offense, he is touching the ball more and has become a key player in the passing game. If only he could get excited like that on defense but I think he is playing about as good as he is capable of on defense and it won't get much better knowing that this is his 6th season. If Detroit could make a trade to secure one or two first round picks which would have to be a pick that could possibly end up as the number one or two overall pick, then I would have no worry that this team could draft a better center or a top tier point guard. Not sure if the Pistons could get a top tier first round pick for Reggie. But maybe they could get a decent player or a number on pick in future years. If both are traded the Pistons lose some big contracts which paces them in a much better position to sign a top tier player at either the point or center. As for now, if I were the coach I would consider moving Bradley to point guard and Jackson to the 2 depending on matchups being Jackson is a liability playing defense at either position. The other option that could strengthen the Piston defense might be to move Harris to the 3 again depending on matchups because Harris as difficulty defending quick players. But his shooting is key to Piston success. Then start Moreland at the power forward spot and give up scoring potential for great paint protection. I know none of you would agree with me on that idea but I sure would love to see SVG try it if only for a few minutes when opponents are scoring at will close to the basket like they have been doing now all season and for the entire season last year. Long team success depends on who the Pistons can get in the draft when thinking about creating a team that could win a championship. I think this coaching staff and management team is content to have average success though so i would bet that there is about a 10% chance of either Jackson or Drummond being moved. So next season will look much like this season. Ups and downs with very little consistency and most of the wins the Pistons will have will be created by the players coming off the bench. Our bench players have fantastic team chemistry right now. And I sure would love to have either Boston's, Lakers, or Golden States' coaching staff moving forward. The Pistons are doing well right now and I love it. Just wanted to offer my thoughts moving forward as to what it might take for our team to make it to the finals within the next 5 years.

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Re: FORUM

Post  Murph on Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:12 am

WTF wrote:
DX I almost fill you on this but maybe for different reason or perhaps the same reasons.  I did think about the pros and cons of such a move and the cons kind of out weighed any pros.

Cons
1. I wouldn't include a  1st round drafted pick but would be willing to offer up Boban along with JL and maybe a 2nd round pick. 
2. Not sure what's going with him health wise and there's no Kander here to fix whatever is wrong.
3. There has to be something seriously going on beyond health as well that you would sit a player making 17 million a season as the Bucks did and now the Suns are open to trading him.  
4. Will he be willing to accept a bench role? I think so if he's gathered anything from the tough lessons he just received from both the Bucks and Suns.  

Pros
1. One if healthy I think he's a better than both Boban and JL and makes the team that more versatile because he's a definite low post option.  I think the team has morphed into far different team since he's left and he might be more suited now.
2. Not sure but I think his contract is up after this season or next so what do we have to lose, it not like we're giving up much to get him. I think there's adequate shooting on the team now that we don't have to rely on him being able to hit mid-range shots
3. Could be a great comeback story if he actually come back and contribute to a winning seasons and playoff run.


Cons

1.  There is no way the Suns are going to take back Leuer AND Boban.  Those are SVG's two worst contracts.
2.  Monroe is healthy.  He started last night for the Suns, played 26 minutes, and had 20 pts, 11 rbds and 2 stls.
3.  See above.
4.  Yes, Monroe would have to come off the bench, like he did in Milwaukee.


Pros

1.  Monroe is healthy.  
2.  Yes, his contract is up at the end of the season, so there's no risk of taking on a bad contract. In fact, we would get rid of a bad contract (Leuer's).
3.  Yes, it would be a great success story.
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I Say It Won't Hurt

Post  WTF on Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:55 pm

deusXango wrote:
WTF wrote:
Murph wrote:Leuer and a 1st round pick for Monroe.
 Tough call I think
PHUQUE NO!!!!!

DX I almost fill you on this but maybe for different reason or perhaps the same reasons.  I did think about the pros and cons of such a move and the cons kind of out weighed any pros.

Cons
1. I wouldn't include a  1st round drafted pick but would be willing to offer up Boban along with JL and maybe a 2nd round pick. 
2. Not sure what's going with him health wise and there's no Kander here to fix whatever is wrong.
3. There has to be something seriously going on beyond health as well that you would sit a player making 17 million a season as the Bucks did and now the Suns are open to trading him.  
4. Will he be willing to accept a bench role? I think so if he's gathered anything from the tough lessons he just received from both the Bucks and Suns.  

Pros
1. One if healthy I think he's a better than both Boban and JL and makes the team that more versatile because he's a definite low post option.  I think the team has morphed into far different team since he's left and he might be more suited now.
2. Not sure but I think his contract is up after this season or next so what do we have to lose, it not like we're giving up much to get him. I think there's adequate shooting on the team now that we don't have to rely on him being able to hit mid-range shots
3. Could be a great comeback story if he actually come back and contribute to a winning seasons and playoff run.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:42 pm

lemonpen wrote:
BallinD wrote:Good Game but...

16 blocks, pitiful, but them Bucks are long and we are not.  No rim protection except from Moreland, Dre?? facepalm

Kennard is gonna be a revelation by the end of the season; already he is using his "short arms" to elbow his way into a prominent place in the rotation  lol

Dre is fast on the jump-tip, but still soooo slow to jump for a block if he jumps at all.  Still lackluster on D, from what I see, though his passing is becoming impressive.  Better than Weggie's.  No show!

Possibly coulda used Boban in there to create mismatches and scoring since our offense sputtered down the stretch and we had no one who could score consistently outside of Avery.  Woulda been nice to see him get some shots in over the long arm of the Bucks...Stupid Van Gundy.



No to the return of the Moose.  I would rather have Randle.  We need more athleticism...period.

3 Bucks being draped over every attempted layup left me wondering what happened to ball fakes and the draw and dish.

It's opponents like this where AD's lack of fundamental blocking out hurts.

Eric Moreland did some good things but IMO dang near all of it was negated on the offensive end.  Turnovers, mishandles and personal fouls.  Too often he pushes us close to the bonus in the first 3 minutes of a quarter.

Someone calm Galloway down.  Dude hits two sorta ill advised 3s then goes hoist crazy, never really setting up for any of them.

I really get a kick at how many um Brothers get all aggressive after Luke like it's personal or something.  Only to receive a minor schooling.

Regarding Moreland Lemonpen I respectfully disagree with you relating to Moreland's contribution in that game. I thought he changed everything relating how the Bucks had been attacking the Piston defense. He moved from one side of the low post to the opposite side quickly helping shutting off drive attempts and he actually challenged shots making some really difficult blocks. His energy on defense was what the Pistons needed at the time. Otherwise, I think the Bucks would have built a 20 point lead before halftime. AD actually came back in to relieve Moreland and played much harder on defense. It was clear to me that the Bucks were attacking the paint at the beginning of the game because they know how dysfunctional AD is most of the time. He looks lost or off kilter when the skill players attack the paint. There is no 2nd line of defense after the perimeter players give up penetration or lose cutters because of weak side screens. Moreland at least was extremely active and did challenge a lot of shots which forced the Bucks to shoot more low percentage shots then they did until he checked in. Every player on the team made mistakes on offense. If they make those mistakes playing with guts and all it doesn't bother me. If they make mistakes giving half an effort or running from baseline at less than full speed then I get worried.

The good news is that this team has some players who do not give up or so far that is the case. Smith and Jackson both were not of the same cut of the Bucks point guards. I would love to have the Bucks back up point guard. He attacked Smith in the first half many times and seemed to score at will against him. Smith could not get off a shot that was not blocked as well. But he was still better than Reggie last night because he got the first pass off to initiate the Piston offense. I feel encouraged from this game being that the Pistons were able to make it a close game right up to the end and the game was played in Bucks Land. Before the season started, I thought the Bucks would beat Detroit badly in every matchup. Many Piston players gave a great effort which is what I love to see more than anything.

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Kennard

Post  WTF on Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:34 pm

Really doesn't matter how much SVG trust him right now just know that he can't get there if you don't play him.  I'm just confused that with all the clear and visible talent and fundamental of this kid why he doesn't get PT every night period be it 20 minutes or 5 minutes. 

It's clear this kid is special and rare so don't freaking mess this up just freaking play him.  You have three positions (PG, SG, and SF) where you could give this kid minutes.   How nice it would have been to go with a bigger line up last night using Kennard at PG and sliding SJ and Harris into the SG and SF position.  

Don't be a doofus just play him.
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Monroe's Return To Detroit

Post  deusXango on Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:33 pm

WTF wrote:
Murph wrote:Leuer and a 1st round pick for Monroe.
 Tough call I think
PHUQUE NO!!!!!
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OTOH is Right

Post  lemonpen on Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:11 pm

BallinD wrote:Good Game but...

16 blocks, pitiful, but them Bucks are long and we are not.  No rim protection except from Moreland, Dre?? facepalm

Kennard is gonna be a revelation by the end of the season; already he is using his "short arms" to elbow his way into a prominent place in the rotation  lol

Dre is fast on the jump-tip, but still soooo slow to jump for a block if he jumps at all.  Still lackluster on D, from what I see, though his passing is becoming impressive.  Better than Weggie's.  No show!

Possibly coulda used Boban in there to create mismatches and scoring since our offense sputtered down the stretch and we had no one who could score consistently outside of Avery.  Woulda been nice to see him get some shots in over the long arm of the Bucks...Stupid Van Gundy.



No to the return of the Moose.  I would rather have Randle.  We need more athleticism...period.

3 Bucks being draped over every attempted layup left me wondering what happened to ball fakes and the draw and dish.

It's opponents like this where AD's lack of fundamental blocking out hurts.

Eric Moreland did some good things but IMO dang near all of it was negated on the offensive end. Turnovers, mishandles and personal fouls. Too often he pushes us close to the bonus in the first 3 minutes of a quarter.

Someone calm Galloway down. Dude hits two sorta ill advised 3s then goes hoist crazy, never really setting up for any of them.

I really get a kick at how many um Brothers get all aggressive after Luke like it's personal or something. Only to receive a minor schooling.
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Maybe

Post  WTF on Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:49 pm

Murph wrote:Leuer and a 1st round pick for Monroe.
 Tough call I think
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Monroe

Post  Murph on Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:23 pm

Leuer and a 1st round pick for Monroe.
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OTOH

Post  BallinD on Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:47 pm

Good Game but...

16 blocks, pitiful, but them Bucks are long and we are not.  No rim protection except from Moreland, Dre?? facepalm

Kennard is gonna be a revelation by the end of the season; already he is using his "short arms" to elbow his way into a prominent place in the rotation  lol

Dre is fast on the jump-tip, but still soooo slow to jump for a block if he jumps at all.  Still lackluster on D, from what I see, though his passing is becoming impressive.  Better than Weggie's.  No show!

Possibly coulda used Boban in there to create mismatches and scoring since our offense sputtered down the stretch and we had no one who could score consistently outside of Avery.  Woulda been nice to see him get some shots in over the long arm of the Bucks...Stupid Van Gundy.

No to the return of the Moose. I would rather have Randle. We need more athleticism...period.
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Hard fought game and fun to watch especially when the 2nd unit entered the game in the first half

Post  cool breeze on Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:35 am

ERIC MORELAND is exactly the guy I thought he could be for the Pistons. He was everywhere inside guarding the paint, blocking shots, setting screens etc. His help defense when he would fly to the opposite low post and block a shot was much like Ben Wallace when he arrived from Orlando. I knew he was capable of being a center the Pistons have not had since Ben was in his prime. I am not saying he is as good as Wallace was in his prime but clearly we have not seen any Piston center play adequate defense in the paint for many years and some of us have grown tired of the lazy attitude centers like Monroe and AD have exhibited. This has been the 3rd game that I have watched where Moreland came off the bench and stopped opponents from getting easy close in shots or 2nd or 3rd chance opportunities. And after AD watches Moreland busting his butt on defense, AD actually gives a better effort when he returns. Great job Eric! He missed a dunk on a break but that is OK by by as long as he brings his heart to the arena. That is the way he played for Oregon State when I watched him in college.

Between Brogdon and Bledsoe they seemed to dominate our Piston point guards. I was hoping that SVG would allow Luke Kennard to play that position last night. Neither Smith or Jackson could keep up with the Bucks point guards and neither were effective on the offensive end. Smith was picked on in the first half by the 2nd year rookie of the year Brogdon who took Smith inside and outside and there was nothing Smith could do to stop him. Still Smith got the Pistons in their offense which was something Jackson didn't do. That was why Reggie didn't return in crunch time or maybe SVG had visions of the game before last night's game when Reggie played solo for about 4 straight possessions.

One key play where Bradley was triple teamed towards the end and a turnover resulted was partly due to the fact that AD decided to come out to the corner and bring his defender with him. AD should have set a screen for the Piston player on top of the key so he could make the proper cut so Avery could have passed the ball. But that is a learning situation that should not happen again.

The bright moments of this game involved the 2nd unit with Galloway hitting 3 big 3 balls, Kennard making a variety of shots and playing solid defense, Tolliver hitting some big shots and playing really hard on defense, and Moreland. That unit and when Bradley came in with them looked very good. The starting unit did not look good on defense or with their movement on offense. While the 2nd unit actually ran the offense and moved the basketball so the team could get some open looks, the starting unit did the opposite and were very slow in executing anything that did not look like street basketball. For instance, Johnson only touched the basketball two times in the first half . Reggie did not play both sides of the court.

Middleton gets the game ball. What a great player he has become and many of us saw his potential with the exception of the decision maker at the time, Joe Dumars. Joe decided for some odd reason that he had to throw in Middleton even though the Bucks felt they had already won just by getting Jennings off their team. Unbelievable how Dumars didn't know what was going on in the league for about 3 years at the end of his career. But Joe was a great player and helped Hammond create that championship team. So Joe is still a bright part of Piston history anyway you slice it. This looked like a playoff game. Our Pistons came close to pulling off another win even though some of the starters looked flat again.

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milwaukee game

Post  Phil1980boy on Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:30 am

FUN..FUN..FUN game to watch

I said it before and I will say it again. Luke is the Pistons best offensive player and best play maker. Luke, A.T. and Avery have the highest basketball I.Q's on this team.

Just 1 question. What made Van Gundy decide to pull his best and most clutch player in the 4th quarter with two minutes left?????

Luke K deserved to finish this game and if he would had finished the game I think the Pistons could had won.

Reggie Jackson trade watch is on and popping now. Come on New Orleans. Come up with A trade package and take this BUM off our hands!!!
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Re: FORUM

Post  BallinD on Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:22 pm

WTF wrote:Who would’ve seen this coming. No one, no one but perhaps the mastermind who has tirelessly built this team.  Stan Van Gundy. Give it up. It’s getting close to time for coming up with a new name for this team. Bad Boys. Going to Work...now?


Still I have trust issues with this team

The "Detroit vs. Everybody" team, including the skittish fans (and you can count me among the skittish).  We all have trust issues, but we can't be so salty that we can't enjoy the ride without constantly fearing the worst from SVG Weggie and Dre, the three biggest head cases on the team.
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So Far So Good Can He Keep It Going

Post  WTF on Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:05 pm

USA Today Sports wrote:The Pistons were back and forth with the Miami Heat and Stan Van Gundy went with the line-up of Ish Smith, Langston Galloway, Luke Kennard, Tobias Harris and Anthony Tolliver.
Look at that line up again.
That was a lineup I don’t think anyone would have imagined SVG would ever have gone with in the past. And that lineup delivered. Big time.
Stan was, before this season, known for sticking with a 9-10 man rotation that only varied due to injury.
Stan’s obvious willingness since game one to use his full deck of cards has been as big a revelation as Andre Drummond’s new-found ability at the foul line.
And it’s not just his lineups that have impressed. It’s his move to more motion-based offense vs his tried and true reliance on the pick and roll. It’s his brilliant use of Drummond as a point center and fixture of the offense that is not Andre as a post up center but as a facilitator. It was his decision as a GM to jettison a mercurial shooting guard in Kentavious Caldwell-Pope to welcome in the rock steady (if somewhat long-two happy) lock-down defender and absolute professional and undeniable locker room presence in Avery Bradley.
And bringing back Anthony Tolliver. And drafting Luke Kennard. And bringing in a many-times-looked-over center in Eric Moreland. And “overpaying” Langston Galloway. And, controversially, deciding Boban may have been a reach.
Stan is doing just about everything right. Even his postgame pressers where he says the team isn’t doing anything right. He’s at the center of all of it and he is rightly being talked about as a man in the running for coach of the year.
This season looked like it was falling apart before it even began and now the Detroit Pistons are 10-3, with the same record as the Golden State Warriors and the Houston Rockets.
Who would’ve seen this coming. No one, no one but perhaps the mastermind who has tirelessly built this team.
Stan Van Gundy. Give it up. It’s getting close to time for coming up with a new name for this team. Bad Boys. Going to Work...now?


Still I have trust issues with this team
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:03 pm

WTF wrote:Cool it doesn't what the conversation is about football, basketball, hockey, politics or racism what is clear is you're inability to stay focus on a singular issue or topic.  

I challenge you to stay focus on the issue with out bringing in unrelated issues to deflect away from the truth.  I notice that often that you chose to avoid a lot of questions placed before you so I challenge you now to do so by answering the following.

1. Is SJ the next Dennis Rodman and did Zeke conclude this in the unseen statement as you claim?
2. Are the 10-3 or 3-10?
3. Would they be 13-0 if SVG only focused on AD defense?
4. Does racism exist?
5. Is the flag more important than compassion for humanity?
6. If a gunman came to a game and shot all the kneeling black players during the anthem which of the following would you do A. Protest for More Gun Control during the anthem B. Shooting more Kneeling players C. Find both action disturbing during the Anthem or D. Pretend it never happen as long as AD got back on defense. 
7. Would you trade AD or SJ?
8. Did SVG write his piece A. during the Lakers game B. Before the game or C. After the game
9. Is RJ playing better this season?
10. Do you believe in Freedom of Speech? If yes why do you wish to oppress SVG from speaking?

1. There will be only one Dennis Rodman. But I hope he becomes the defender Rodman was for our Pistons. Isiah Thomas said the Pistons need more players like Stanley Johnson. Also, I do believe the Piston defense is much weaker without Johnson in the lineup. So I respectively disagree that management should package him as you suggest. And you wonder about my sanity?
2. The Pistons are winning WTF and I am happy about that.
3. I am sure he has tried to get AD focused more on defense but it hasn't worked so far. He is still usually the last man back on defense regardless of where he is standing on offense. No paint protection is a big worry WTF at least to some of us.
4. I haven't seen any evidence of racism around here where I live for many years WTF. Whites are in the minority as is the case of most large cities today. I worry about being in confrontations with bad individuals in today's world and do not project any judgments on groups of people especially people of different color. That was a problem in past generations but there is actually very little evidence of racism in today's workplace as far as I know. But you are the expert in this so I do not doubt that you know the truth. I am just worried about how bald people as a group are treated by women and employers who seem to never give bald man a fair shake. And they can never win elections either. The bald community will launch a protest at an NFL game next season. You can count on it. It is real. There is no doubt about it WTF. What a bad country we live in. Are there some white people who have racist thoughts? How about black people who might be racist? What about hispanic? There must be some who hate both blacks and whites. What I am saying is that this entire topic is stupid nonsense and does nothing positive at all to improve anything excluding how our country treats bald men. There are bald men being discriminated against who represent all races. Our power in politics should be much greater than anything yet created.
5. (D) Nothing matters other than the Detroit Pistons winning the maximum amount of games possible this season. Of course I would want to shoot the shooter if such a tragic thing happened WTF but spectators are not allowed to bring in guns to NFL games. Are there such beasts out there who are stalking those brave men who that a knee? They are so brave to do that. I never thought of it in that way. That makes those who take a knee before the National Anthem really brave and more more so than the Navy Seals who go on impossible missions. Those who that a knee are also more gutsy than the young police officers who kiss their wives good by in the morning not knowing if they will survive the day knowing they might have to go in a domestic abuse call involving some guy who had taken a knee at the football game.I love and am proud of the NFL black players who stand for the National Anthem. They get a lot of flack from the Black lives Matter organization sponsored by George Sorus. Those Black men who stand show me that the revolution will not be successful. Most people from all races are not drinking the cool aide.
6. I would trade AD because right now the Pistons could get something great in return that would improve Detroit's chances of moving up to the top. AD has a large contract for a player who hates playing defense. Johnson is in his rookie contract and is only 20. He has big potential down the road and it doesn't cost much to keep him around. Right now I believe he is the best defender on the team. He helps other players on defense. And he can pass the ball really well and gets the ball to AD for those easy dunks. The team does miss him even though you don't see it. Hopefully he will be ready when the Pistons play Cleveland.
7. Not sure on that WTF. You got me.
8. Yes RJ is playing much better than last season. But he is not good enough to play on a top tier team. His defense is shaky but better than either of the two previous seasons. He has potential to become an elite defender but like AD doesn't have the personality to ever reach his potential. His failure to run the motion offense at times is very disturbing. This team has the players to run that type of offense. He stands in the way at times. Will the coach do anything about that? Unlikely he will have the guts take RJ out of any game like the last one where was screwing up the works. But who knows anything is possible.
9. I do believe in free speech. Yet worry that many college professors do not believe in free speech these days. Intellectual diversity is not tolerated but some students or professors. In fact they become violent when opposing speakers attempt to provide their viewpoint. That is scary and much like the atmosphere present in Germany in the 1930s. Read some of Albert Spear's books to understand what I am saying. As far as SVG's rant on racism and what he thought he needed to get off his chest, I believe he has a right to do that but that doesn't mean that I don't think he was an idiot to do it. The Pistons need to sell more tickets. The arena is half empty even when a lot of free tickets are given out. And don't forget that winter has not yet set in. How many people from the suburbs are planning a long trip downtown for a Piston game? Many loved going to the Palace where history was made. The timing of SVG's rant was really bad regardless of where you stand on racism in 2017. I personally hate it when politics become part of any sporting event. People go to sporting events to get away from bad stuff going on in the world. This is their escape from insanity of everyday life. Now SVG along with many others have stoked the fire inside the hearts of a lot of disgruntled people. Maybe some of those people will feel bad enough to commit an act of violence against some innocent person going to a game in downtown Detroit. Or maybe some fan won't take that risk and forget about going to a Piston game now. Meanwhile all the players want to do is play basketball. But now they are drawn into a political conflict created by WHO? What is the goal of this racism hysteria. Who is behind it? Are the Russians behind it? Is some radical group behind it like the Black Lives Matter group? All I have are questions. It is great that you believe racism exists. I also believe that racism exists. And I also believe that a lot of people think bald people are ugly. Do you believe the bald community has been persecuted in this country that so many people hate?

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LMAO Top Ten Challenge Questions For Don AKA Cool Breeze

Post  WTF on Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:57 pm

Cool it doesn't what the conversation is about football, basketball, hockey, politics or racism what is clear is you're inability to stay focus on a singular issue or topic.  

I challenge you to stay focus on the issue with out bringing in unrelated issues to deflect away from the truth.  I notice that often that you chose to avoid a lot of questions placed before you so I challenge you now to do so by answering the following.

1. Is SJ the next Dennis Rodman and did Zeke conclude this in the unseen statement as you claim?
2. Are the 10-3 or 3-10?
3. Would they be 13-0 if SVG only focused on AD defense?
4. Does racism exist?
5. Is the flag more important than compassion for humanity?
6. If a gunman came to a game and shot all the kneeling black players during the anthem which of the following would you do A. Protest for More Gun Control during the anthem B. Shooting more Kneeling players C. Find both action disturbing during the Anthem or D. Pretend it never happen as long as AD got back on defense. 
7. Would you trade AD or SJ?
8. Did SVG write his piece A. during the Lakers game B. Before the game or C. After the game
9. Is RJ playing better this season?
10. Do you believe in Freedom of Speech? If yes why do you wish to oppress SVG from speaking?
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:27 pm

Murph wrote:I didn't say racism doesn't exist.  I said race relations continue to improve, as measured by economic gain.  Many more improvements need to be made, especially to the criminal justice system.


In the meantime, let's hope the pasty white guy, making $7 million a year, can figure out how to beat the Bucks in Milwaukee tonight.  The return of Stanley Johnson to the starting lineup will be a welcome addition.  It will be interesting to see if SJ and Tolliver can contain Giannis.  I hope SVG continues to play Kennard off the bench at SF.

Murph one thing is clear to me, WTF has no sympathy for the disrespect bald men suffer every day especially Black bald men. White bald men are for sure treated a little bit better but they can never win any political office because they are bald. Black bald men have a slightly better chance of winning an election. One good thing has happened because of this nasty prejudice against bald men began in America. We have organized to form a very powerful lobby with all races of bald men joining in hopes that one of us can take that citizen of the year award away from the first heroic NFL football player who took a knee before a football game next year. We know as WTF pointed out that none of us can win that award this year. That award went to the Man Who Took A Knee. Yes he is a real hero as SVG proudly stated recently. He is much more heroic than the 400,000 plus young Americans who gave their lives in WW2. Do any of the players who take a knee even know about WW2? What was that guys name who won the Citizen of the Year Award? I can't remember now even though WTF stated his name. I do know that fewer people are turning out for those expensive NFL football games.How will SVG's statements affect Piston attendance now? Lemonpen had just suggested that the Lion fans should come to Piston games now. That was a good idea. But SVG is not worried about attendance. He had to get something big off his chest as he stated and be true to himself. What a man! SVG has turned this into a soap opera. And SVG has for sure turned off a lot of previous Piston fans who do know something about our history and might have served in the military and hate political protests at sporting events. SVG and WTF side by side will march to prove that racism does exist and isn't there some sort of racist statement in that national anthem anyway? Yes some whites hate blacks for no reason and yes some blacks hate whites for no reason too. Let's all protest and maybe that will change something other than knowing ignorance is alive and well in America. And drugs, teen aged pregnancy, extremely low high school graduation rates and unfaithful husbands and fathers are not what leaders like SVG need to bring to the forefront. Yep racism is what we need to focus on today in 2017. If people keep on going through the wrong door for whatever reason they will end up in prison too regardless of their skin color. But it is not their fault. Blame racism and we can all be simpletons and we must be angry too. If SVG wants to bring attention to uncomfortable topics, then he needs to provide the details instead of ranting about the same things corrupt political candidates attempt to create mass hysteria over.

Will the players love SVG more now because he had a vision that racism does exist? Was that his goal? If so that is OK with me if he can get AD to at least act like he likes to play defense half as much as he likes offense. Maybe now after the racism thing SVG said he needed to get off his chest will get the attention of AD and maybe he might get his arms up on defense half of the time. But will Jackson now listen more carefully to SVG and our coach can somehow convince Reggie to run motion plays the team practices instead of going solo and being so predictable. And maybe if SVG gets a great basketball player who is bald, he will make a public statement about how disgusted he is over the plight of the Bald Community. Maybe then WFT will also get on board with that cause too and at least feel some sympathy for how many bald men are currently incarcerated in American prisons. America is a horrible place to live yet millions keep trying to come here. I just can't figure that out because eventually some of those who do make it here will become bald some day and face the consequences that all bald men suffer in silence over each day.


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LMAO!!! Murph

Post  WTF on Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:06 am

Murph wrote:I didn't say racism doesn't exist.  I said race relations continue to improve, as measured by economic gain.  Many more improvements need to be made, especially to the criminal justice system.


In the meantime, let's hope the pasty white guy, making $7 million a year, can figure out how to beat the Bucks in Milwaukee tonight.  The return of Stanley Johnson to the starting lineup will be a welcome addition.  It will be interesting to see if SJ and Tolliver can contain Giannis.  I hope SVG continues to play Kennard off the bench at SF.

Thank Goodness!!! you were scaring me for a moment  lol

The absence of SJ and the current win streak IMO proves he not as required as one might think.  I really didn't see much of a fall off defensively so in an effort to reach next level I would package him in any deal along with JL and Boban to get a PF.  

Hope they can take these next 3 games because the 3 after are a cake walk.  We could be looking at the teams first losing streak  Cavs, Thunders, Celtics so they have to get this win tonight.
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Re: FORUM

Post  Murph on Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:57 am

I didn't say racism doesn't exist. I said race relations continue to improve, as measured by economic gain. Many more improvements need to be made, especially to the criminal justice system.


In the meantime, let's hope the pasty white guy, making $7 million a year, can figure out how to beat the Bucks in Milwaukee tonight. The return of Stanley Johnson to the starting lineup will be a welcome addition. It will be interesting to see if SJ and Tolliver can contain Giannis. I hope SVG continues to play Kennard off the bench at SF.
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Re: FORUM

Post  WTF on Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:18 am

Murph wrote:Historically, employment opportunities and standard of living have been a big deal in race relations in this country, and can be measured objectively.  

The alternative is to judge race relations based on op-ed pieces written by pasty white guys making $7 million a year like Stan Van Gundy.

It's a small measurement that's been Historically largely over stated to disprove racism exist.    SVG isn't a single alternative but simply one voice of many voices that speaks against injustice.  Being a pasty white guy making 7 million a year shouldn't disqualify you from morality.   Really it can be a pasty white guy with only $7 in his pocket really doesn't matter.
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Re: FORUM

Post  Murph on Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:17 am

Historically, employment opportunities and standard of living have been a big deal in race relations in this country, and can be measured objectively.  

The alternative is to judge race relations based on op-ed pieces written by pasty white guys making $7 million a year like Stan Van Gundy.
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Re: FORUM

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